Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site

The Davis City Council last night voted by a 3-2 margin to accept the “no change alternative” to the Anderson Bank Building, turning back a heavily lobbied bid by owner Jim Kidd to alter the window structure of the historic building. Councilmember Lamar Heystek and Mayor Sue Greenwald were joined by Councilmember Stephen Souza to support the preservation of the Anderson Bank Building.

Mr. Kidd speaking before the council made the case based on the need to be able to better attract customers to retail purchases through a larger and more visible window display.

“Over the last twenty years I have been attempting to rent and keep retailers at the corner of the location of the Anderson building. For the most part it has been a constant revolving door of these struggling to be successful.”

Furthermore he suggested that he has at times been forced to rent this space at well below market value–at times as low as 50 cents per square foot. It should be noted however, that that is not his current rent is nowhere near that rate.

The big push though was a direct appeal to the downtown businesses who had opposed Target and other big box expansion as a threat to downtown vitality and retail.

The big boxes are at the Gates of Davis,” he emphatically proclaimed.

“Our city is surrounded by big boxes… And they continue to pull our shoppers and our sales dollars out of the city. Perhaps many in this room have been tempted to shop outside of Davis at these big boxes. We need better stores and more of those sales dollars to remain in Davis.”

At the same time, he admitted that this change was not going to really stop this.

“The change that I am proposing may not stop this flow of sales dollars, but it will help to improve this downtown intersection as well as the downtown.”

Davis City Staff recommended against such changes on the basis of the EIR which found that these changes would make very significant impacts on the historic status of the building.

City Staffer Ike Njokou argued that the proposed changes would alter the building’s ability to physically convey its previously identified historical significance.

“Part of the EIR analysis is what we call an historical resources analysis that was performed by an historian, preservation historian. And she indicates in that report that was made by the draft EIR that both Option A and B would impact the integrity of the building, however with mitigation she does believe that Option A could be implemented, staff’s concern with that is it does create a disjointed appearance relative to the building because you have to present the window sill which is a significant portion of that building.”

Moreover the window sill is the current defining feature of the building, and its alteration would completely alter the building and its historic nature.

“Because the sill, the window sill is deemed as a current defining feature of the building. If you were to remove that sill it does create an appearance that is no longer consistent with the theme for that portion of the building. You have to realize that this building has three uses and also is designed accordingly. The second floor is designed for offices, where Togos is, is designed for retail, and this 2500 square foot section is designed as a bank section or bank use space, and was used as such for a while with other uses at times.”

The building while recognized as a city landmark, and is eligible to be formally nominated for the national registry has not yet been included.

According to the chair of the Historical Resources Management Commission, Rand Herbert, this is due to resistance by the Mr. Kidd to its inclusion. An inclusion that would probably and perhaps likely preclude any future alterations.

“National register nomination of private property have to be done by the land owner… It is my understanding that you cannot make an adverse nomination to the register… I don’t believe that the city can nominate to the national register against the wishes of the owner.”

Mr. Rand, whose committed voted unanimously to recommend the “no change” alternative, reiterated the point that Mr. Njoku made about the importance of windows for the historic nature of the windows.

“Windows are considered architectural historians and architects to be the single most defining feature of any building. And I think if you cast your minds eye around to house and other buildings that you’ve seen where the windows have been drastically altered, it has a big effect on the way that building looks. It was designed to have windows of a certain kind.”

A strong argument was made by several of the importance of historic preservation for community. One of the things that has struck me about this community as I have learned more and more of its rich history, is how few buildings remain that are historic. It is tragic as to how many of the buildings of such historic value were already demolished.

As Robin Datel, former chair of the HRMC and current professor of geography at Sacramento State put it:

“I think that our downtown has very very important functions other than just retailing and that is that is our most important civic space. That is to say it speaks to who we are and who we were. And that’s what preservation is all about.”

This ideal of the character of Davis and the Davis downtown has been a pervasive and overarching theme in recent debates. This idea was picked up on by many both in attendance and behind the dais.

Councilmember Heystek spoke of the need to weigh the character of our downtown community in addition to the economy value such development may create and suggested that economic development does not belong on top of our hierarchy of priorities by itself.

“If we place the goal of economic development above all other goals, I think the city would look a lot different. I opposed the Target development, and there was mention by the applicant of big box development, I opposed that because I thought it was out of character for our city, no matter how many millions of dollars in revenue it would have brought the city in the years to come. And for the same reason, I believe that my position on that is consistent with my position on the Anderson Bank Building. I don’t believe that altering this building is in character with our downtown.”

Mr. Rand added:

“The general plan calls for the preservation of historic resources, the landmark status means that the loss of such a resource would be a significant loss to the community… Historic buildings have an attraction to people, this one is situation such that people getting off the train walk into town, they see a really fine building.”

Councilmember Stephen Souza also spoke strongly in favor of preservation.

“In fact, I believe that it is a substantial adverse change to lower it. Our general plan policies encourage the protection, the enhancement, the re-use of historic and architectural resources. Option A it would detract from the historic appearance of the building. Option B would be more appealing, but it won’t result in a substantive environmental impact. Mitigation measures, I don’t care, regardless of what we do here, I want the mitigation measures enacted.”

Mr. Souza spoke strongly and eloquently of the need for preserving this cherished historical landmark.

“The JB Anderson Building was built 93 years ago, and that building is part of the gateway to our community. That gateway has very few representations of what Davis was. Someone said it… “who were are, what we were,” and I would add, what we want to be or what we will be.”

“There are five commercial historic resources left in that area, this is the only, the only, landmark commercial two story building left… We can’t remake them, we can’t lower the windows, go back, and fix the windows, I believe, and create what was…”

Mayor Pro Tem Ruth Asmundson made a motion to approve option B, that motion was seconded by Don Saylor.

Saylor spoke strongly in favor of the remodel:

“This is a close call I think. Yesterday, I spent an hour and a half across the street from the building, just to kind of feel it, see what the building looks like… So I sat beside it awhile and let it talk to me.”

The building apparently told him that he should remodel the windows.

However, on this day, Saylor and Asmundson were not joined by Mr. Souza. This was perhaps Stephen Souza’s finest moment on the Davis City Council. He spoke eloquently and passionately for historic preservation. He also touched on a key point… that we have become fixated on the single commercial use for the building–that of retail. And while retail is vital, it is not the only type of business that exists in Davis and it is not the only way to make use of this historic space.

“This evening we’ve been fixated on retail, we’ve been fixated on this notion of retail, and trying to find a use that meets the building, rather than trying to find a use that fits the building.” And I’ll say that again in a different way, we want to find a use that fits the building rather than altering the building to fit a use. I’m not convinced, I’m just not convinced at this point in time that we have exhausted and been creative in trying to find a use that fits the building.”

He continued to make a number of alternative suggested uses for the building. One of these included the creation of a restaurant.

“Rather than punch four giant holes under the windows to extend the windows, why don’t we think about punching one small hole in the back to make it a stack and make it a restaurant.”

Mr. Souza on this point is exactly right on. In many cities, you do not have a lot of street exposure or window space and they have to generate innovative uses for such space which is so scarce and valuable. I’ve seen fantastic businesses including restaurants and even retail stores that basically enter the street from glorified doors and hallways. The key is to be innovative. Mr. Rand had used the example of Bistro 33’s spectacularly innovative use of the old City Hall. By thinking outside of the box, historic preservation and business do not have to be zero sum games.

As Mr. Souza put it:

“I don’t think there has been proper marketing… you have to do proper market otherwise I don’t care what kind of windows that you have in the building, you’re not going to survive. I don’t think that the windows make the use, I think that the business owner makes the use work.”

Overall Mr. Souza was extremely critical of Mr. Kidd and his enterprise.

Mr. Kidd during his comments attempted to justify the state of the building by claiming to have pumped a million dollars into upgrades following the fire, many of which were according to him, not required. Instead he suggested he did it because the tenants needed them to be competition and profitable.

“During the past years I have spent over a million dollars restoring the building after the fire in 2002… [many of] which were not required.”

Many present including several on the council criticized Mr. Kidd for allowing the exterior of the building to degrade. While Saylor used this as an excuse to give Kidd what he wanted, Souza used it as a point of criticism and condemnation calling his upkeep pathetic.

“The exterior of the building is pathetic, it needs cleaning. It’s pathetic. It needs to be re-painted or cleaned, in fact, I would love to see it go back to the brick that it was, to give it the history that we should be up here cherishing, because there isn’t much of it left for our grandkids.”

In the Davis Enterprise article on Sunday, Mr. Kidd made the “threat” that if the council did not give him what he wanted, he would spend $75,000 to put it on the ballot himself. Such a self-serving use of taxpayer resources however would likely not go over well in this community and Mr. Kidd would be well advised not to follow through.

However, that was not the limit of his heavy-handed tactics. He also made the veiled and subtle insinuation that if he did not get his way, he would simply demolish the building. A threat he coyly employed as he made assurances that if he did get his way, he would not demolish the building.

“If we can come to an agreement tonight, I would like to do even more improvements and restoration to this building. In this respect I have no reason to consider tearing down this building now or any time in the future. If we can reach a satisfactory solution to the immediate issue, I would be willing to sign a pact with the city to that effect.”

Notice that he himself raises this possibility as he goes about debunking the idea that he would consider that possibility.

Furthermore, he waged a very public and heavy-handed campaign to obtain permission that was denied just five years ago by a different council. This time, he got a number of merchants to sign his petition, some of whose signatures may have been acquired in the past. He posted signs around the downtown area and in the yards of some visible private homes. Finally he organized a lobbying campaign that included a number of emails. One councilmember remarked to me that they failed to recognize any of the names of the people–although some of those people turned out to be tenants and business associates of Mr. Kidd.

Councilmember Souza was most blunt on this point.

“I’ll say this straight up Mr. Kidd, when I got those 64 emails, all coming from gmail, that convinced me that something very strange was going on here. I’ve never got 64 emails with everyone having a gmail account, usually its pretty varied, so it made me rather suspicious, I think you would have done yourself more justice if you did run a campaign as you did over windows.”

On this point, Mr. Souza once again was dead on. He was joined in a 3-2 vote in favor of the substitute motion for no action moved by Heystek and seconded by Mayor Greenwald.

Tuesday marked a solid victory for those who support historic preservation. I must say in what will be a very brief remark for right now, that I came into this process with a slight lean toward the principle of historic preservation. However, I also sympathized to some extent with Mr. Kidd’s viewpoint. I know several of the members of the council went back and forth on this issue as well. In the end, it was the conduct of Mr. Kidd and his heavy-handed campaign that turned me much more strongly into the opposition camp. This is not a campaign and should not have been conducted as such. If Mr. Kidd persists in his campaign, I believe the wise voters of Davis will see through his ploys and see them as limited and self-serving. We do not need more divisiveness. I strongly support downtown business and retail. It remains a reason that I so strongly oppose out-of-town big box retail. I believe however, we can accomplish far more working together rather than fighting each other on divisive issues such as this. Historic preservation and retail and commerce should be positive sum games–not zero sum games. That means that they should work with each other and not viewed as either/ or situations. Hopefully in the future we can remember that and work toward common purpose and vision.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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76 thoughts on “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site”

  1. Deb W.

    Great article, DPD. Thanks for doing all the dirty window work. Interesting aspect from Mr. Kidd’s comments and op-ed, I looked and didn’t find a campaign contribution or endorsement from him for the Measure K campaign. Apparently he wasn’t too concerned about his retail space being affected by big box development during the campaign as he is now.

  2. Deb W.

    Great article, DPD. Thanks for doing all the dirty window work. Interesting aspect from Mr. Kidd’s comments and op-ed, I looked and didn’t find a campaign contribution or endorsement from him for the Measure K campaign. Apparently he wasn’t too concerned about his retail space being affected by big box development during the campaign as he is now.

  3. Deb W.

    Great article, DPD. Thanks for doing all the dirty window work. Interesting aspect from Mr. Kidd’s comments and op-ed, I looked and didn’t find a campaign contribution or endorsement from him for the Measure K campaign. Apparently he wasn’t too concerned about his retail space being affected by big box development during the campaign as he is now.

  4. Deb W.

    Great article, DPD. Thanks for doing all the dirty window work. Interesting aspect from Mr. Kidd’s comments and op-ed, I looked and didn’t find a campaign contribution or endorsement from him for the Measure K campaign. Apparently he wasn’t too concerned about his retail space being affected by big box development during the campaign as he is now.

  5. truman

    Sue Greenwald, Lamar Heystek and Stephen Souza did the right thing in supporting historic preservation of the downtown last night. Their leadership will ensure some of the last vestiges of old Davis and the character of the downtown being preserved. It is a shame that Mr. Kidd has allowed this magnificent building to deteriorate through neglect and lack of maintenance. The Anderson Bank Building deserves better.

  6. truman

    Sue Greenwald, Lamar Heystek and Stephen Souza did the right thing in supporting historic preservation of the downtown last night. Their leadership will ensure some of the last vestiges of old Davis and the character of the downtown being preserved. It is a shame that Mr. Kidd has allowed this magnificent building to deteriorate through neglect and lack of maintenance. The Anderson Bank Building deserves better.

  7. truman

    Sue Greenwald, Lamar Heystek and Stephen Souza did the right thing in supporting historic preservation of the downtown last night. Their leadership will ensure some of the last vestiges of old Davis and the character of the downtown being preserved. It is a shame that Mr. Kidd has allowed this magnificent building to deteriorate through neglect and lack of maintenance. The Anderson Bank Building deserves better.

  8. truman

    Sue Greenwald, Lamar Heystek and Stephen Souza did the right thing in supporting historic preservation of the downtown last night. Their leadership will ensure some of the last vestiges of old Davis and the character of the downtown being preserved. It is a shame that Mr. Kidd has allowed this magnificent building to deteriorate through neglect and lack of maintenance. The Anderson Bank Building deserves better.

  9. Anonymous

    “Furthermore he suggested that he has at times been forced to rent this space at well below market value of 50 cents per square foot.”

    To clarify this, what Kidd said was that he has charged rent that, at times, has been as low as 50 cents, which he said is below market rate. He didn’t say that he had charged “well below” 50 cents per foot, and did not imply that 50 cents is the market rate.

    Note that Kidd did not say that the rent is currently as low as 50 cents, or even that the current rent is “below market.” A previous comment on an earlier episode of this story indicated that the rent on the space was “extraordinarily high.”

    There is a lot that goes into a commercial lease besides the per square foot rent, and there are many reasons that a landlord might offer to a particular tenant an attractive rental rate. (For instance, a landlord might offer a lower rate to a tenant who pays for all of his own improvements, is a desirable “anchor” tenant, or will occupy a space immediately.) Mr. Kidd’s assertion that he has at some time in the past offered a rate as low as 50 cents should not be construed as altruism or some sort of heroic effort to support retail in downtown Davis.

    Despite Mr. Kidd’s attempt to cast himself as a crusader against bix-box retail, it is painfully obvious that his motivation for wanting to lower the building windows is simply to increase the economic value of the property as a retail space. It would not make a “better downtown;” rather, it would simply serve to futher enrich Mr. Kidd at the expense of one of the few historic resources left in Davis.

    Doug is right, this was probably one of Stephen Souza’s best decisions during his tenure on the Council – although his tirade against Jim Kidd and the appearance of the building was probably ill-advised. However, Souza has a long way to go to redeem many of his previous actions – such as the promotion of Covell Village, his support of “joint study areas” (aka “development planning areas”) on the periphery of Davis, and his vote to disband the Human Relations Commission last year. It was a step in the right direction.

    Saylor and Asmundson showed themselves to be willing to give Mr. Kidd something that no previous City Council has been willing to, thus revealing the degree of their extremism – something to remember when Saylor attempts to package himself as a “moderate” during his re-election campaign.

  10. Anonymous

    “Furthermore he suggested that he has at times been forced to rent this space at well below market value of 50 cents per square foot.”

    To clarify this, what Kidd said was that he has charged rent that, at times, has been as low as 50 cents, which he said is below market rate. He didn’t say that he had charged “well below” 50 cents per foot, and did not imply that 50 cents is the market rate.

    Note that Kidd did not say that the rent is currently as low as 50 cents, or even that the current rent is “below market.” A previous comment on an earlier episode of this story indicated that the rent on the space was “extraordinarily high.”

    There is a lot that goes into a commercial lease besides the per square foot rent, and there are many reasons that a landlord might offer to a particular tenant an attractive rental rate. (For instance, a landlord might offer a lower rate to a tenant who pays for all of his own improvements, is a desirable “anchor” tenant, or will occupy a space immediately.) Mr. Kidd’s assertion that he has at some time in the past offered a rate as low as 50 cents should not be construed as altruism or some sort of heroic effort to support retail in downtown Davis.

    Despite Mr. Kidd’s attempt to cast himself as a crusader against bix-box retail, it is painfully obvious that his motivation for wanting to lower the building windows is simply to increase the economic value of the property as a retail space. It would not make a “better downtown;” rather, it would simply serve to futher enrich Mr. Kidd at the expense of one of the few historic resources left in Davis.

    Doug is right, this was probably one of Stephen Souza’s best decisions during his tenure on the Council – although his tirade against Jim Kidd and the appearance of the building was probably ill-advised. However, Souza has a long way to go to redeem many of his previous actions – such as the promotion of Covell Village, his support of “joint study areas” (aka “development planning areas”) on the periphery of Davis, and his vote to disband the Human Relations Commission last year. It was a step in the right direction.

    Saylor and Asmundson showed themselves to be willing to give Mr. Kidd something that no previous City Council has been willing to, thus revealing the degree of their extremism – something to remember when Saylor attempts to package himself as a “moderate” during his re-election campaign.

  11. Anonymous

    “Furthermore he suggested that he has at times been forced to rent this space at well below market value of 50 cents per square foot.”

    To clarify this, what Kidd said was that he has charged rent that, at times, has been as low as 50 cents, which he said is below market rate. He didn’t say that he had charged “well below” 50 cents per foot, and did not imply that 50 cents is the market rate.

    Note that Kidd did not say that the rent is currently as low as 50 cents, or even that the current rent is “below market.” A previous comment on an earlier episode of this story indicated that the rent on the space was “extraordinarily high.”

    There is a lot that goes into a commercial lease besides the per square foot rent, and there are many reasons that a landlord might offer to a particular tenant an attractive rental rate. (For instance, a landlord might offer a lower rate to a tenant who pays for all of his own improvements, is a desirable “anchor” tenant, or will occupy a space immediately.) Mr. Kidd’s assertion that he has at some time in the past offered a rate as low as 50 cents should not be construed as altruism or some sort of heroic effort to support retail in downtown Davis.

    Despite Mr. Kidd’s attempt to cast himself as a crusader against bix-box retail, it is painfully obvious that his motivation for wanting to lower the building windows is simply to increase the economic value of the property as a retail space. It would not make a “better downtown;” rather, it would simply serve to futher enrich Mr. Kidd at the expense of one of the few historic resources left in Davis.

    Doug is right, this was probably one of Stephen Souza’s best decisions during his tenure on the Council – although his tirade against Jim Kidd and the appearance of the building was probably ill-advised. However, Souza has a long way to go to redeem many of his previous actions – such as the promotion of Covell Village, his support of “joint study areas” (aka “development planning areas”) on the periphery of Davis, and his vote to disband the Human Relations Commission last year. It was a step in the right direction.

    Saylor and Asmundson showed themselves to be willing to give Mr. Kidd something that no previous City Council has been willing to, thus revealing the degree of their extremism – something to remember when Saylor attempts to package himself as a “moderate” during his re-election campaign.

  12. Anonymous

    “Furthermore he suggested that he has at times been forced to rent this space at well below market value of 50 cents per square foot.”

    To clarify this, what Kidd said was that he has charged rent that, at times, has been as low as 50 cents, which he said is below market rate. He didn’t say that he had charged “well below” 50 cents per foot, and did not imply that 50 cents is the market rate.

    Note that Kidd did not say that the rent is currently as low as 50 cents, or even that the current rent is “below market.” A previous comment on an earlier episode of this story indicated that the rent on the space was “extraordinarily high.”

    There is a lot that goes into a commercial lease besides the per square foot rent, and there are many reasons that a landlord might offer to a particular tenant an attractive rental rate. (For instance, a landlord might offer a lower rate to a tenant who pays for all of his own improvements, is a desirable “anchor” tenant, or will occupy a space immediately.) Mr. Kidd’s assertion that he has at some time in the past offered a rate as low as 50 cents should not be construed as altruism or some sort of heroic effort to support retail in downtown Davis.

    Despite Mr. Kidd’s attempt to cast himself as a crusader against bix-box retail, it is painfully obvious that his motivation for wanting to lower the building windows is simply to increase the economic value of the property as a retail space. It would not make a “better downtown;” rather, it would simply serve to futher enrich Mr. Kidd at the expense of one of the few historic resources left in Davis.

    Doug is right, this was probably one of Stephen Souza’s best decisions during his tenure on the Council – although his tirade against Jim Kidd and the appearance of the building was probably ill-advised. However, Souza has a long way to go to redeem many of his previous actions – such as the promotion of Covell Village, his support of “joint study areas” (aka “development planning areas”) on the periphery of Davis, and his vote to disband the Human Relations Commission last year. It was a step in the right direction.

    Saylor and Asmundson showed themselves to be willing to give Mr. Kidd something that no previous City Council has been willing to, thus revealing the degree of their extremism – something to remember when Saylor attempts to package himself as a “moderate” during his re-election campaign.

  13. Brian in Davis

    The key point is that the use should fit the building. Paco’s in Woodland has demonstrated how to successfully reuse an old bank building. Perhaps the owner of that restaurant should be recruited to expand into Davis.

  14. Brian in Davis

    The key point is that the use should fit the building. Paco’s in Woodland has demonstrated how to successfully reuse an old bank building. Perhaps the owner of that restaurant should be recruited to expand into Davis.

  15. Brian in Davis

    The key point is that the use should fit the building. Paco’s in Woodland has demonstrated how to successfully reuse an old bank building. Perhaps the owner of that restaurant should be recruited to expand into Davis.

  16. Brian in Davis

    The key point is that the use should fit the building. Paco’s in Woodland has demonstrated how to successfully reuse an old bank building. Perhaps the owner of that restaurant should be recruited to expand into Davis.

  17. wtf

    “This is a close I think. Yesterday, I spent an hour and a half across the street from the building, just to kind of feel it, see what the building looks like… So I sat beside it awhile and let it talk to me.”

    Was this a quote from Don Saylor or Julie Partansky? She’s the only (former) council member I know who lets buildings talk to her. Don usually only listens when money talks.

  18. wtf

    “This is a close I think. Yesterday, I spent an hour and a half across the street from the building, just to kind of feel it, see what the building looks like… So I sat beside it awhile and let it talk to me.”

    Was this a quote from Don Saylor or Julie Partansky? She’s the only (former) council member I know who lets buildings talk to her. Don usually only listens when money talks.

  19. wtf

    “This is a close I think. Yesterday, I spent an hour and a half across the street from the building, just to kind of feel it, see what the building looks like… So I sat beside it awhile and let it talk to me.”

    Was this a quote from Don Saylor or Julie Partansky? She’s the only (former) council member I know who lets buildings talk to her. Don usually only listens when money talks.

  20. wtf

    “This is a close I think. Yesterday, I spent an hour and a half across the street from the building, just to kind of feel it, see what the building looks like… So I sat beside it awhile and let it talk to me.”

    Was this a quote from Don Saylor or Julie Partansky? She’s the only (former) council member I know who lets buildings talk to her. Don usually only listens when money talks.

  21. davisite

    The television camera’s eye unflinchingly penetrates public political posturing. Saylor’s attempt to insert DEVELOPER requirements into routine work on State-mandated Mello-Rouse “paper work” left staff publicly perplexed and somewhat irritated as they reminded him that this was not the issue at hand and that the Developer obligations were ALREADY part of city policy(something that Saylor knew or should have known). Asmundson also took this opportunity to offer her anti-Mello-Rouse position as she admittedly spoke to Mace Ranch anti-Mello- Rouse sentiments.. All in all, a political performance by the two of them, consuming Council time in self-serving political posturing. Souza’s speechifying about his rejection of the windows was excessive as he took this opportunity to revitalize his populist image. So much for their outrage over the length of Council meetings.

  22. davisite

    The television camera’s eye unflinchingly penetrates public political posturing. Saylor’s attempt to insert DEVELOPER requirements into routine work on State-mandated Mello-Rouse “paper work” left staff publicly perplexed and somewhat irritated as they reminded him that this was not the issue at hand and that the Developer obligations were ALREADY part of city policy(something that Saylor knew or should have known). Asmundson also took this opportunity to offer her anti-Mello-Rouse position as she admittedly spoke to Mace Ranch anti-Mello- Rouse sentiments.. All in all, a political performance by the two of them, consuming Council time in self-serving political posturing. Souza’s speechifying about his rejection of the windows was excessive as he took this opportunity to revitalize his populist image. So much for their outrage over the length of Council meetings.

  23. davisite

    The television camera’s eye unflinchingly penetrates public political posturing. Saylor’s attempt to insert DEVELOPER requirements into routine work on State-mandated Mello-Rouse “paper work” left staff publicly perplexed and somewhat irritated as they reminded him that this was not the issue at hand and that the Developer obligations were ALREADY part of city policy(something that Saylor knew or should have known). Asmundson also took this opportunity to offer her anti-Mello-Rouse position as she admittedly spoke to Mace Ranch anti-Mello- Rouse sentiments.. All in all, a political performance by the two of them, consuming Council time in self-serving political posturing. Souza’s speechifying about his rejection of the windows was excessive as he took this opportunity to revitalize his populist image. So much for their outrage over the length of Council meetings.

  24. davisite

    The television camera’s eye unflinchingly penetrates public political posturing. Saylor’s attempt to insert DEVELOPER requirements into routine work on State-mandated Mello-Rouse “paper work” left staff publicly perplexed and somewhat irritated as they reminded him that this was not the issue at hand and that the Developer obligations were ALREADY part of city policy(something that Saylor knew or should have known). Asmundson also took this opportunity to offer her anti-Mello-Rouse position as she admittedly spoke to Mace Ranch anti-Mello- Rouse sentiments.. All in all, a political performance by the two of them, consuming Council time in self-serving political posturing. Souza’s speechifying about his rejection of the windows was excessive as he took this opportunity to revitalize his populist image. So much for their outrage over the length of Council meetings.

  25. 無名 - wu ming

    i am pleased that souza provided the swing vote on this. kidd’s whole windows argument was absurd. it’s a nice old building, and if they put a halfway interesting business in it, the windows wouldn’t slow it down a bit. if he tries to pull a forbes and put it on the ballot, i don’t think it’ll work.

    please, someone get a nice restaurant or bar in there.

  26. 無名 - wu ming

    i am pleased that souza provided the swing vote on this. kidd’s whole windows argument was absurd. it’s a nice old building, and if they put a halfway interesting business in it, the windows wouldn’t slow it down a bit. if he tries to pull a forbes and put it on the ballot, i don’t think it’ll work.

    please, someone get a nice restaurant or bar in there.

  27. 無名 - wu ming

    i am pleased that souza provided the swing vote on this. kidd’s whole windows argument was absurd. it’s a nice old building, and if they put a halfway interesting business in it, the windows wouldn’t slow it down a bit. if he tries to pull a forbes and put it on the ballot, i don’t think it’ll work.

    please, someone get a nice restaurant or bar in there.

  28. 無名 - wu ming

    i am pleased that souza provided the swing vote on this. kidd’s whole windows argument was absurd. it’s a nice old building, and if they put a halfway interesting business in it, the windows wouldn’t slow it down a bit. if he tries to pull a forbes and put it on the ballot, i don’t think it’ll work.

    please, someone get a nice restaurant or bar in there.

  29. davisite

    There’s a great little restaurant(name escapes me now) in Sacramento that is in an old brick Fire Station. These restaurants in the setting of a historic building almost always bring a desirable ambience.

  30. davisite

    There’s a great little restaurant(name escapes me now) in Sacramento that is in an old brick Fire Station. These restaurants in the setting of a historic building almost always bring a desirable ambience.

  31. davisite

    There’s a great little restaurant(name escapes me now) in Sacramento that is in an old brick Fire Station. These restaurants in the setting of a historic building almost always bring a desirable ambience.

  32. davisite

    There’s a great little restaurant(name escapes me now) in Sacramento that is in an old brick Fire Station. These restaurants in the setting of a historic building almost always bring a desirable ambience.

  33. Rich Rifkin

    One trivial point on the text: You correctly identified Rand Herbert as the chair of the HRMC. However, after that, you call him “Mr. Rand.” That probably should be Mr. Herbert.

    Also, everyone should know that this guy, Rand Herbert, is a great commissioner for the HRMC. When he spoke last night to the city council, I think you could get a sense of how sharp and informed he is. I couldn’t imagine our commission without him. Beyond the fact that he runs our meetings very well, Rand has a wealth of knowledge about CEQA, the historical integrity of buildings, the Davis register, etc., etc. This is the kind of stuff he works with in his professional life, and we as a community are fortunate to have him volunteering his time for the HRMC.

    As to the decision itself, I join those who are pleased with the council’s action. I am not one who feels antipathy for Jim Kidd. I simply hope that this decision by the council will prod Mr. Kidd to open his mind up to the possibility that the bank space can be a great location for another type of business, one that is not walk-up retail. If Kidd begins thinking along these lines, I think the city should do everything it can to help him make it a success.

    I would also hope that he will now see that it is in his best interest to move forward with putting the ABB on the national register of historic resources. Insofar as processing the paperwork involves costs, I think the city should pay for it. Once the ABB is on the national register, Kidd will be eligible for tax credits, which could make his restoration and upkeep of the facade cheap. Maybe the tax credits will even help pay for punching a hole into the hallway behind Togos’ (as Souza suggested), so that the bank space would work as a restaurant, if that’s what Kidd wants to do with it.

  34. Rich Rifkin

    One trivial point on the text: You correctly identified Rand Herbert as the chair of the HRMC. However, after that, you call him “Mr. Rand.” That probably should be Mr. Herbert.

    Also, everyone should know that this guy, Rand Herbert, is a great commissioner for the HRMC. When he spoke last night to the city council, I think you could get a sense of how sharp and informed he is. I couldn’t imagine our commission without him. Beyond the fact that he runs our meetings very well, Rand has a wealth of knowledge about CEQA, the historical integrity of buildings, the Davis register, etc., etc. This is the kind of stuff he works with in his professional life, and we as a community are fortunate to have him volunteering his time for the HRMC.

    As to the decision itself, I join those who are pleased with the council’s action. I am not one who feels antipathy for Jim Kidd. I simply hope that this decision by the council will prod Mr. Kidd to open his mind up to the possibility that the bank space can be a great location for another type of business, one that is not walk-up retail. If Kidd begins thinking along these lines, I think the city should do everything it can to help him make it a success.

    I would also hope that he will now see that it is in his best interest to move forward with putting the ABB on the national register of historic resources. Insofar as processing the paperwork involves costs, I think the city should pay for it. Once the ABB is on the national register, Kidd will be eligible for tax credits, which could make his restoration and upkeep of the facade cheap. Maybe the tax credits will even help pay for punching a hole into the hallway behind Togos’ (as Souza suggested), so that the bank space would work as a restaurant, if that’s what Kidd wants to do with it.

  35. Rich Rifkin

    One trivial point on the text: You correctly identified Rand Herbert as the chair of the HRMC. However, after that, you call him “Mr. Rand.” That probably should be Mr. Herbert.

    Also, everyone should know that this guy, Rand Herbert, is a great commissioner for the HRMC. When he spoke last night to the city council, I think you could get a sense of how sharp and informed he is. I couldn’t imagine our commission without him. Beyond the fact that he runs our meetings very well, Rand has a wealth of knowledge about CEQA, the historical integrity of buildings, the Davis register, etc., etc. This is the kind of stuff he works with in his professional life, and we as a community are fortunate to have him volunteering his time for the HRMC.

    As to the decision itself, I join those who are pleased with the council’s action. I am not one who feels antipathy for Jim Kidd. I simply hope that this decision by the council will prod Mr. Kidd to open his mind up to the possibility that the bank space can be a great location for another type of business, one that is not walk-up retail. If Kidd begins thinking along these lines, I think the city should do everything it can to help him make it a success.

    I would also hope that he will now see that it is in his best interest to move forward with putting the ABB on the national register of historic resources. Insofar as processing the paperwork involves costs, I think the city should pay for it. Once the ABB is on the national register, Kidd will be eligible for tax credits, which could make his restoration and upkeep of the facade cheap. Maybe the tax credits will even help pay for punching a hole into the hallway behind Togos’ (as Souza suggested), so that the bank space would work as a restaurant, if that’s what Kidd wants to do with it.

  36. Rich Rifkin

    One trivial point on the text: You correctly identified Rand Herbert as the chair of the HRMC. However, after that, you call him “Mr. Rand.” That probably should be Mr. Herbert.

    Also, everyone should know that this guy, Rand Herbert, is a great commissioner for the HRMC. When he spoke last night to the city council, I think you could get a sense of how sharp and informed he is. I couldn’t imagine our commission without him. Beyond the fact that he runs our meetings very well, Rand has a wealth of knowledge about CEQA, the historical integrity of buildings, the Davis register, etc., etc. This is the kind of stuff he works with in his professional life, and we as a community are fortunate to have him volunteering his time for the HRMC.

    As to the decision itself, I join those who are pleased with the council’s action. I am not one who feels antipathy for Jim Kidd. I simply hope that this decision by the council will prod Mr. Kidd to open his mind up to the possibility that the bank space can be a great location for another type of business, one that is not walk-up retail. If Kidd begins thinking along these lines, I think the city should do everything it can to help him make it a success.

    I would also hope that he will now see that it is in his best interest to move forward with putting the ABB on the national register of historic resources. Insofar as processing the paperwork involves costs, I think the city should pay for it. Once the ABB is on the national register, Kidd will be eligible for tax credits, which could make his restoration and upkeep of the facade cheap. Maybe the tax credits will even help pay for punching a hole into the hallway behind Togos’ (as Souza suggested), so that the bank space would work as a restaurant, if that’s what Kidd wants to do with it.

  37. Rich Rifkin

    In case some are unaware of the tax incentives offered by having the ABB listed on the national register, this bit comes from the National Park Service website:

    “The Federal Historic Preservation Tax Incentives are available for buildings that are National Historic Landmarks, that are listed in the National Register, and that contribute to National Register Historic Districts and certain local historic districts. Properties must be income-producing and must be rehabilitated according to standards set by the Secretary of the Interior.

    “The Historic Preservation Tax Incentives have proven to be an invaluable tool in revitalizing communities and preserving the historic places that give cities, towns, and rural areas their special character. Prior to the program, the U.S. tax code favored the demolition of older buildings over saving and using them. Starting in 1976, the Federal tax code became aligned with national historic preservation policy to encourage voluntary, private sector investment in preserving historic buildings.”

    On a different page of the NPS website, this explains something about the credit:

    “The 20% rehabilitation tax credit applies to any project that the Secretary of the Interior designates a certified rehabilitation of a certified historic structure. The 20% credit is available for properties rehabilitated for commercial, industrial, agricultural, or rental residential purposes, but it is not available for properties used exclusively as the owner’s private residence.”

    An example of how the tax credit might work for the ABB would be this: say it costs Kidd $250,000 to fully restore the facade, punch an opening in the wall to the Togo’s back hallway, install a restaurant ventillation system and fix up the interior to work as a restaurant space. That would provide him a $50,000 tax credit (not a tax deduction).

    Say then that Kidd found a tenant to use the space as a restaurant, and along with all of the other tenants in the ABB, he made a net income of $200,000 per year. On that income, Kidd would owe approximately $70,000 in taxes. However, with the $50,000 rehab credit, he would reduce his income tax bill for the ABB from $70,000 to $20,000. (The AMT would likely not apply.)

    While I am not a tax expert — I did, however, formerly work in rehabbing old buildings, so I know something about the tax credit programs — I think he would also be able to depreciate the $250,000 he spent up front on the rehab, to make the space restaurant worthy.

  38. Rich Rifkin

    In case some are unaware of the tax incentives offered by having the ABB listed on the national register, this bit comes from the National Park Service website:

    “The Federal Historic Preservation Tax Incentives are available for buildings that are National Historic Landmarks, that are listed in the National Register, and that contribute to National Register Historic Districts and certain local historic districts. Properties must be income-producing and must be rehabilitated according to standards set by the Secretary of the Interior.

    “The Historic Preservation Tax Incentives have proven to be an invaluable tool in revitalizing communities and preserving the historic places that give cities, towns, and rural areas their special character. Prior to the program, the U.S. tax code favored the demolition of older buildings over saving and using them. Starting in 1976, the Federal tax code became aligned with national historic preservation policy to encourage voluntary, private sector investment in preserving historic buildings.”

    On a different page of the NPS website, this explains something about the credit:

    “The 20% rehabilitation tax credit applies to any project that the Secretary of the Interior designates a certified rehabilitation of a certified historic structure. The 20% credit is available for properties rehabilitated for commercial, industrial, agricultural, or rental residential purposes, but it is not available for properties used exclusively as the owner’s private residence.”

    An example of how the tax credit might work for the ABB would be this: say it costs Kidd $250,000 to fully restore the facade, punch an opening in the wall to the Togo’s back hallway, install a restaurant ventillation system and fix up the interior to work as a restaurant space. That would provide him a $50,000 tax credit (not a tax deduction).

    Say then that Kidd found a tenant to use the space as a restaurant, and along with all of the other tenants in the ABB, he made a net income of $200,000 per year. On that income, Kidd would owe approximately $70,000 in taxes. However, with the $50,000 rehab credit, he would reduce his income tax bill for the ABB from $70,000 to $20,000. (The AMT would likely not apply.)

    While I am not a tax expert — I did, however, formerly work in rehabbing old buildings, so I know something about the tax credit programs — I think he would also be able to depreciate the $250,000 he spent up front on the rehab, to make the space restaurant worthy.

  39. Rich Rifkin

    In case some are unaware of the tax incentives offered by having the ABB listed on the national register, this bit comes from the National Park Service website:

    “The Federal Historic Preservation Tax Incentives are available for buildings that are National Historic Landmarks, that are listed in the National Register, and that contribute to National Register Historic Districts and certain local historic districts. Properties must be income-producing and must be rehabilitated according to standards set by the Secretary of the Interior.

    “The Historic Preservation Tax Incentives have proven to be an invaluable tool in revitalizing communities and preserving the historic places that give cities, towns, and rural areas their special character. Prior to the program, the U.S. tax code favored the demolition of older buildings over saving and using them. Starting in 1976, the Federal tax code became aligned with national historic preservation policy to encourage voluntary, private sector investment in preserving historic buildings.”

    On a different page of the NPS website, this explains something about the credit:

    “The 20% rehabilitation tax credit applies to any project that the Secretary of the Interior designates a certified rehabilitation of a certified historic structure. The 20% credit is available for properties rehabilitated for commercial, industrial, agricultural, or rental residential purposes, but it is not available for properties used exclusively as the owner’s private residence.”

    An example of how the tax credit might work for the ABB would be this: say it costs Kidd $250,000 to fully restore the facade, punch an opening in the wall to the Togo’s back hallway, install a restaurant ventillation system and fix up the interior to work as a restaurant space. That would provide him a $50,000 tax credit (not a tax deduction).

    Say then that Kidd found a tenant to use the space as a restaurant, and along with all of the other tenants in the ABB, he made a net income of $200,000 per year. On that income, Kidd would owe approximately $70,000 in taxes. However, with the $50,000 rehab credit, he would reduce his income tax bill for the ABB from $70,000 to $20,000. (The AMT would likely not apply.)

    While I am not a tax expert — I did, however, formerly work in rehabbing old buildings, so I know something about the tax credit programs — I think he would also be able to depreciate the $250,000 he spent up front on the rehab, to make the space restaurant worthy.

  40. Rich Rifkin

    In case some are unaware of the tax incentives offered by having the ABB listed on the national register, this bit comes from the National Park Service website:

    “The Federal Historic Preservation Tax Incentives are available for buildings that are National Historic Landmarks, that are listed in the National Register, and that contribute to National Register Historic Districts and certain local historic districts. Properties must be income-producing and must be rehabilitated according to standards set by the Secretary of the Interior.

    “The Historic Preservation Tax Incentives have proven to be an invaluable tool in revitalizing communities and preserving the historic places that give cities, towns, and rural areas their special character. Prior to the program, the U.S. tax code favored the demolition of older buildings over saving and using them. Starting in 1976, the Federal tax code became aligned with national historic preservation policy to encourage voluntary, private sector investment in preserving historic buildings.”

    On a different page of the NPS website, this explains something about the credit:

    “The 20% rehabilitation tax credit applies to any project that the Secretary of the Interior designates a certified rehabilitation of a certified historic structure. The 20% credit is available for properties rehabilitated for commercial, industrial, agricultural, or rental residential purposes, but it is not available for properties used exclusively as the owner’s private residence.”

    An example of how the tax credit might work for the ABB would be this: say it costs Kidd $250,000 to fully restore the facade, punch an opening in the wall to the Togo’s back hallway, install a restaurant ventillation system and fix up the interior to work as a restaurant space. That would provide him a $50,000 tax credit (not a tax deduction).

    Say then that Kidd found a tenant to use the space as a restaurant, and along with all of the other tenants in the ABB, he made a net income of $200,000 per year. On that income, Kidd would owe approximately $70,000 in taxes. However, with the $50,000 rehab credit, he would reduce his income tax bill for the ABB from $70,000 to $20,000. (The AMT would likely not apply.)

    While I am not a tax expert — I did, however, formerly work in rehabbing old buildings, so I know something about the tax credit programs — I think he would also be able to depreciate the $250,000 he spent up front on the rehab, to make the space restaurant worthy.

  41. Derrick

    It’s worth noting that DPD has often been accused of favoritism, he was pretty generous in his praise for Souza today. Deservedly so. I think that gives him a lot of credibility.

  42. Derrick

    It’s worth noting that DPD has often been accused of favoritism, he was pretty generous in his praise for Souza today. Deservedly so. I think that gives him a lot of credibility.

  43. Derrick

    It’s worth noting that DPD has often been accused of favoritism, he was pretty generous in his praise for Souza today. Deservedly so. I think that gives him a lot of credibility.

  44. Derrick

    It’s worth noting that DPD has often been accused of favoritism, he was pretty generous in his praise for Souza today. Deservedly so. I think that gives him a lot of credibility.

  45. Jessica

    Derrick –

    DPD has stated on the blog that he will praise elected officials when they do the right thing and critique them when they do not.

    Thank you DPD for sticking by your word.

  46. Jessica

    Derrick –

    DPD has stated on the blog that he will praise elected officials when they do the right thing and critique them when they do not.

    Thank you DPD for sticking by your word.

  47. Jessica

    Derrick –

    DPD has stated on the blog that he will praise elected officials when they do the right thing and critique them when they do not.

    Thank you DPD for sticking by your word.

  48. Jessica

    Derrick –

    DPD has stated on the blog that he will praise elected officials when they do the right thing and critique them when they do not.

    Thank you DPD for sticking by your word.

  49. Don Shor

    “”This evening we’ve been fixated on retail, we’ve been fixated on this notion of retail….”

    In terms of fixating on retail, at thing point four of the council members are 1 for 1. Souza is 0 for 2.

    I certainly see both sides of this issue, and understand the way the vote came out. But it is worth noting here that improving the retail potential of that corner would have been a benefit to the downtown. There were tradeoffs involved.

    So when the next issue — say, the pump house — comes up, I hope there will be extra consideration given to the retail benefits of enhancing business on the site.

    “Historic preservation and retail and commerce should be positive sum games….”
    An excellent goal. How would you apply it?

  50. Don Shor

    “”This evening we’ve been fixated on retail, we’ve been fixated on this notion of retail….”

    In terms of fixating on retail, at thing point four of the council members are 1 for 1. Souza is 0 for 2.

    I certainly see both sides of this issue, and understand the way the vote came out. But it is worth noting here that improving the retail potential of that corner would have been a benefit to the downtown. There were tradeoffs involved.

    So when the next issue — say, the pump house — comes up, I hope there will be extra consideration given to the retail benefits of enhancing business on the site.

    “Historic preservation and retail and commerce should be positive sum games….”
    An excellent goal. How would you apply it?

  51. Don Shor

    “”This evening we’ve been fixated on retail, we’ve been fixated on this notion of retail….”

    In terms of fixating on retail, at thing point four of the council members are 1 for 1. Souza is 0 for 2.

    I certainly see both sides of this issue, and understand the way the vote came out. But it is worth noting here that improving the retail potential of that corner would have been a benefit to the downtown. There were tradeoffs involved.

    So when the next issue — say, the pump house — comes up, I hope there will be extra consideration given to the retail benefits of enhancing business on the site.

    “Historic preservation and retail and commerce should be positive sum games….”
    An excellent goal. How would you apply it?

  52. Don Shor

    “”This evening we’ve been fixated on retail, we’ve been fixated on this notion of retail….”

    In terms of fixating on retail, at thing point four of the council members are 1 for 1. Souza is 0 for 2.

    I certainly see both sides of this issue, and understand the way the vote came out. But it is worth noting here that improving the retail potential of that corner would have been a benefit to the downtown. There were tradeoffs involved.

    So when the next issue — say, the pump house — comes up, I hope there will be extra consideration given to the retail benefits of enhancing business on the site.

    “Historic preservation and retail and commerce should be positive sum games….”
    An excellent goal. How would you apply it?

  53. Anonymous

    Just a verification of the comment:

    “This time, he got a number of merchants to sign his petition, some of whose signatures may have been acquired in the past.”

    The petion had only addresses and signatures – no date or business names – so I’ll remain similarly anonymous here. I am married to an owner of the business at one of the addresses on the petition. The petition signature for that address is not that of my spouse or the co-owner. That means either the signature is a fake; obtained from an employee or someone else; or is at least 4 years old.

    There’s another deception he played that I can’t describe without revealing the business involved; he was called on it several years ago when this issue came up but must have forgotten it was already discredited.

    I can’t respect either the motives or the character of someone using deception to influence public policy…

    And as for attracting retail tenants – a past potential retail tenant that I know says that negotiating with Mr. Kidd was frustrating and he was demanding far too much. There’s more $$ involved in a retail rental than the square footage charge.

  54. Anonymous

    Just a verification of the comment:

    “This time, he got a number of merchants to sign his petition, some of whose signatures may have been acquired in the past.”

    The petion had only addresses and signatures – no date or business names – so I’ll remain similarly anonymous here. I am married to an owner of the business at one of the addresses on the petition. The petition signature for that address is not that of my spouse or the co-owner. That means either the signature is a fake; obtained from an employee or someone else; or is at least 4 years old.

    There’s another deception he played that I can’t describe without revealing the business involved; he was called on it several years ago when this issue came up but must have forgotten it was already discredited.

    I can’t respect either the motives or the character of someone using deception to influence public policy…

    And as for attracting retail tenants – a past potential retail tenant that I know says that negotiating with Mr. Kidd was frustrating and he was demanding far too much. There’s more $$ involved in a retail rental than the square footage charge.

  55. Anonymous

    Just a verification of the comment:

    “This time, he got a number of merchants to sign his petition, some of whose signatures may have been acquired in the past.”

    The petion had only addresses and signatures – no date or business names – so I’ll remain similarly anonymous here. I am married to an owner of the business at one of the addresses on the petition. The petition signature for that address is not that of my spouse or the co-owner. That means either the signature is a fake; obtained from an employee or someone else; or is at least 4 years old.

    There’s another deception he played that I can’t describe without revealing the business involved; he was called on it several years ago when this issue came up but must have forgotten it was already discredited.

    I can’t respect either the motives or the character of someone using deception to influence public policy…

    And as for attracting retail tenants – a past potential retail tenant that I know says that negotiating with Mr. Kidd was frustrating and he was demanding far too much. There’s more $$ involved in a retail rental than the square footage charge.

  56. Anonymous

    Just a verification of the comment:

    “This time, he got a number of merchants to sign his petition, some of whose signatures may have been acquired in the past.”

    The petion had only addresses and signatures – no date or business names – so I’ll remain similarly anonymous here. I am married to an owner of the business at one of the addresses on the petition. The petition signature for that address is not that of my spouse or the co-owner. That means either the signature is a fake; obtained from an employee or someone else; or is at least 4 years old.

    There’s another deception he played that I can’t describe without revealing the business involved; he was called on it several years ago when this issue came up but must have forgotten it was already discredited.

    I can’t respect either the motives or the character of someone using deception to influence public policy…

    And as for attracting retail tenants – a past potential retail tenant that I know says that negotiating with Mr. Kidd was frustrating and he was demanding far too much. There’s more $$ involved in a retail rental than the square footage charge.

  57. Anonymous

    As this historical site is being considered I hope some of you are considering the future. When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years? The problem is that the downtown area is generally a achitectural wasteland and that has an adverse impact on shopping.

  58. Anonymous

    As this historical site is being considered I hope some of you are considering the future. When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years? The problem is that the downtown area is generally a achitectural wasteland and that has an adverse impact on shopping.

  59. Anonymous

    As this historical site is being considered I hope some of you are considering the future. When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years? The problem is that the downtown area is generally a achitectural wasteland and that has an adverse impact on shopping.

  60. Anonymous

    As this historical site is being considered I hope some of you are considering the future. When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years? The problem is that the downtown area is generally a achitectural wasteland and that has an adverse impact on shopping.

  61. Rich Rifkin

    “When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years?”

    Significance can mean different things. One can simply be that a building is representative of the architecture of its time. That doesn’t mean that the building is necessarily aesthetically pleasing. But rather, the building’s style and elements and materials and usages reflect what was important at the time it was built. But if it is generally agreed that a building is beautiful and well made, it’s more likely that 100 years after its built, such a building will not be razed and will essentially look the same. I would guess that the Chen Building at 2nd & G fits that criteria (but of course, it is far too early to know). Another might be the Crepeville Building at 3rd & C or The Lofts on E Street, between 1st & 2nd.

    Another aspect of significance is an association with important events or important people. Most who lobbied to save the Terminal Hotel (which was replaced by the Chen Building) did so in part on the basis that in Davis’s early history, the TH served as the community chambers, where all of our town founders met and dicussed, among other things, city business.

    For contemporary buildings, it’s impossible now to know which people and events will be deemed important 100 years hence. But if, for example, the People’s Vanguard becomes an institution that lasts into the 22nd Century, people then might want to preserve David Greenwald’s abode (or office), as it is associated with a significant person who impacted the history of Davis.

  62. Rich Rifkin

    “When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years?”

    Significance can mean different things. One can simply be that a building is representative of the architecture of its time. That doesn’t mean that the building is necessarily aesthetically pleasing. But rather, the building’s style and elements and materials and usages reflect what was important at the time it was built. But if it is generally agreed that a building is beautiful and well made, it’s more likely that 100 years after its built, such a building will not be razed and will essentially look the same. I would guess that the Chen Building at 2nd & G fits that criteria (but of course, it is far too early to know). Another might be the Crepeville Building at 3rd & C or The Lofts on E Street, between 1st & 2nd.

    Another aspect of significance is an association with important events or important people. Most who lobbied to save the Terminal Hotel (which was replaced by the Chen Building) did so in part on the basis that in Davis’s early history, the TH served as the community chambers, where all of our town founders met and dicussed, among other things, city business.

    For contemporary buildings, it’s impossible now to know which people and events will be deemed important 100 years hence. But if, for example, the People’s Vanguard becomes an institution that lasts into the 22nd Century, people then might want to preserve David Greenwald’s abode (or office), as it is associated with a significant person who impacted the history of Davis.

  63. Rich Rifkin

    “When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years?”

    Significance can mean different things. One can simply be that a building is representative of the architecture of its time. That doesn’t mean that the building is necessarily aesthetically pleasing. But rather, the building’s style and elements and materials and usages reflect what was important at the time it was built. But if it is generally agreed that a building is beautiful and well made, it’s more likely that 100 years after its built, such a building will not be razed and will essentially look the same. I would guess that the Chen Building at 2nd & G fits that criteria (but of course, it is far too early to know). Another might be the Crepeville Building at 3rd & C or The Lofts on E Street, between 1st & 2nd.

    Another aspect of significance is an association with important events or important people. Most who lobbied to save the Terminal Hotel (which was replaced by the Chen Building) did so in part on the basis that in Davis’s early history, the TH served as the community chambers, where all of our town founders met and dicussed, among other things, city business.

    For contemporary buildings, it’s impossible now to know which people and events will be deemed important 100 years hence. But if, for example, the People’s Vanguard becomes an institution that lasts into the 22nd Century, people then might want to preserve David Greenwald’s abode (or office), as it is associated with a significant person who impacted the history of Davis.

  64. Rich Rifkin

    “When will something be built in downtown Davis that will have historical significance in 75-100 years?”

    Significance can mean different things. One can simply be that a building is representative of the architecture of its time. That doesn’t mean that the building is necessarily aesthetically pleasing. But rather, the building’s style and elements and materials and usages reflect what was important at the time it was built. But if it is generally agreed that a building is beautiful and well made, it’s more likely that 100 years after its built, such a building will not be razed and will essentially look the same. I would guess that the Chen Building at 2nd & G fits that criteria (but of course, it is far too early to know). Another might be the Crepeville Building at 3rd & C or The Lofts on E Street, between 1st & 2nd.

    Another aspect of significance is an association with important events or important people. Most who lobbied to save the Terminal Hotel (which was replaced by the Chen Building) did so in part on the basis that in Davis’s early history, the TH served as the community chambers, where all of our town founders met and dicussed, among other things, city business.

    For contemporary buildings, it’s impossible now to know which people and events will be deemed important 100 years hence. But if, for example, the People’s Vanguard becomes an institution that lasts into the 22nd Century, people then might want to preserve David Greenwald’s abode (or office), as it is associated with a significant person who impacted the history of Davis.

  65. 無名 - wu ming

    just a quick comment – while nice and historic architecture ought to be protected, i have to take issue with the assertion that architectural wastelands have an adverse effect on shopping.

    having lived in taiwan, where most architecture is less-than-thrilling tile-clad apartment complexes and office towers, i can assure you that a thriving shopping scene is more closely linked to well-run shops providing what the people in the area want than it is with aesthetics. you can make your downtown look like disneyland – as many of the bay area suburbs have done recently – and your downtown can still function as a ghost town if people aren’t buying what you’re selling.

    davis’ downtown’s strength isn’t the architecture, it’s the businesses. conversely, those businesses in the anderson bank building that aren’t pulling people in off the street shouldn’t be blaming the architecture for their medicre businesses. how many people really need high-priced home decor?

  66. 無名 - wu ming

    just a quick comment – while nice and historic architecture ought to be protected, i have to take issue with the assertion that architectural wastelands have an adverse effect on shopping.

    having lived in taiwan, where most architecture is less-than-thrilling tile-clad apartment complexes and office towers, i can assure you that a thriving shopping scene is more closely linked to well-run shops providing what the people in the area want than it is with aesthetics. you can make your downtown look like disneyland – as many of the bay area suburbs have done recently – and your downtown can still function as a ghost town if people aren’t buying what you’re selling.

    davis’ downtown’s strength isn’t the architecture, it’s the businesses. conversely, those businesses in the anderson bank building that aren’t pulling people in off the street shouldn’t be blaming the architecture for their medicre businesses. how many people really need high-priced home decor?

  67. 無名 - wu ming

    just a quick comment – while nice and historic architecture ought to be protected, i have to take issue with the assertion that architectural wastelands have an adverse effect on shopping.

    having lived in taiwan, where most architecture is less-than-thrilling tile-clad apartment complexes and office towers, i can assure you that a thriving shopping scene is more closely linked to well-run shops providing what the people in the area want than it is with aesthetics. you can make your downtown look like disneyland – as many of the bay area suburbs have done recently – and your downtown can still function as a ghost town if people aren’t buying what you’re selling.

    davis’ downtown’s strength isn’t the architecture, it’s the businesses. conversely, those businesses in the anderson bank building that aren’t pulling people in off the street shouldn’t be blaming the architecture for their medicre businesses. how many people really need high-priced home decor?

  68. 無名 - wu ming

    just a quick comment – while nice and historic architecture ought to be protected, i have to take issue with the assertion that architectural wastelands have an adverse effect on shopping.

    having lived in taiwan, where most architecture is less-than-thrilling tile-clad apartment complexes and office towers, i can assure you that a thriving shopping scene is more closely linked to well-run shops providing what the people in the area want than it is with aesthetics. you can make your downtown look like disneyland – as many of the bay area suburbs have done recently – and your downtown can still function as a ghost town if people aren’t buying what you’re selling.

    davis’ downtown’s strength isn’t the architecture, it’s the businesses. conversely, those businesses in the anderson bank building that aren’t pulling people in off the street shouldn’t be blaming the architecture for their medicre businesses. how many people really need high-priced home decor?

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