Thursday Midday Briefs

Davis Enterprise Headline on Anderson Bank Building Issue Causes a Stir

Under the headline of “City opts for history over commerce,” the Davis Enterprise article caused some controversy of its own as I received a number of complaints via email.

The article itself also generated complaints of people claiming that the coverage was skewed toward building owner Jim Kidd and his comments and away from the 3-2 council majorities’ viewpoints.

The headline alone though has to give one serious pause because it actually takes sides implicitly in the policy dispute.

On one side of the argument was Jim Kidd’s initiative to lower the building windows citing the need for improved space for retail development.

“Over the last twenty years I have been attempting to rent and keep retailers at the corner of the location of the Anderson building. For the most part it has been a constant revolving door of these struggling to be successful.”

This argument by Kidd and his supporters suggests that the issue is about commerce, and that in order for the downtown to be vital and to war off the big boxes which “are at the gates of Davis” you must allow him and others like him to create a more business friendly image.

However, the majority on the council on this issue rejected that Manichean view of commerce and history as a zero-sum game in which a choice in favor of history is automatically a choice against commerce (as the headline applies).

Councilmember Lamar Heystek spoke of the need to weigh the character of our downtown community in addition to the economic value such development may create. He did not view economic goals as the only important consideration, however, it is unfair to suggest as the headline would that he chose historical importance over commercial uses.

“If we place the goal of economic development above all other goals, I think the city would look a lot different.”

Councilmember Stephen Souza was explicit and adamant that retail development is not the only realistic alternative for that space and preferred to look at other commercial uses.

This evening we’ve been fixated on retail, we’ve been fixated on this notion of retail, and trying to find a use that meets the building, rather than trying to find a use that fits the building.” And I’ll say that again in a different way, we want to find a use that fits the building rather than altering the building to fit a use. I’m not convinced, I’m just not convinced at this point in time that we have exhausted and been creative in trying to find a use that fits the building.

For some reason in recent debates commerce has been limited in those debates to retail. Retail is not even the majority commercial use of downtown. Thus the headline also denotes a very limited conception of commerce as only applying to retail rather than the much broader array of types of commerce that the term actually implies.

The problem with the headline is that it adopts the perspective of the applicant rather than a neutral perspective for framing the issue. The applicant’s perspective was that this was a struggle between history and commerce and that commerce lost. Whereas those on the council majority saw it as a question of balancing the considerations of history with the possible alternative types of commercial enterprises that could more appropriately fill that space.

It is worth noting since the issue arose, that the boards of directors of the Davis Downtown Business Association and the Davis Chamber of Commerce both supported lowering the windows. It is also worth noting that the chief editor of the Davis Enterprise is a past member of that board and that her husband is a current member of that board. It’s not clear that the decision was made by that individual, but it is worth noting.

EVENTS

Malcolm X Day Event

Malcolm X: Davis Library Blanchard Room 6 PM – Sat. May 19th

We will celebrate the life of Malcolm X this Saturday in the Library. Bring your friends and the whole family as we learn about the important events in the life of Malcolm X.

Refreshments will be served.

Awards will be presented.

Malcolm will be remembered and honored.

Davis High School Catalysts for Social Justice

This Monday, May 21st, the DAVIS HIGH SCHOOL CATALYSTS FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE STUDENT RESEARCH SCHOLARS will host their 4th Annual Research Presentation, entitled:

GROWING UP BIRACIAL IN DAVIS: STUDENTS’ PERSPECTIVES AND AN UPDATE ON RACIAL DISPARITIES IN ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE AND DISCIPLINE PATTERNS

7PM AT DAVIS HIGH SCHOOL MULTIPURPOSE ROOM (OAK AND W. 14TH STREETS)

These young people have worked and are working hard to present a body of data that will be of service to Davis families, teachers, and community members. They have undergone an abbreviated training in research and advocacy regarding race relations at Davis High, Davis, and the country. Please come and support them.

You can contact Jann Murray-Garcia (753-7443) if you have any questions.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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169 thoughts on “Thursday Midday Briefs”

  1. Anonymous

    This again is an example of the editorialization by the paper in a news story. The Davis Enterprise has a long history of placing their bias and the bias of their editor in both their headlines and their “news” articles. I am told that the headlines and titles of most stories are selected by Editor Debbie Davis herself.

  2. Anonymous

    This again is an example of the editorialization by the paper in a news story. The Davis Enterprise has a long history of placing their bias and the bias of their editor in both their headlines and their “news” articles. I am told that the headlines and titles of most stories are selected by Editor Debbie Davis herself.

  3. Anonymous

    This again is an example of the editorialization by the paper in a news story. The Davis Enterprise has a long history of placing their bias and the bias of their editor in both their headlines and their “news” articles. I am told that the headlines and titles of most stories are selected by Editor Debbie Davis herself.

  4. Anonymous

    This again is an example of the editorialization by the paper in a news story. The Davis Enterprise has a long history of placing their bias and the bias of their editor in both their headlines and their “news” articles. I am told that the headlines and titles of most stories are selected by Editor Debbie Davis herself.

  5. 無名 - wu ming

    yup. pretty blatant editorializing. i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye. pretty unprofessional, given that they still (rhetorically, at least) claim to aspire to the concept of an impartial, objective press.

    (personally, i tend to think that the concept of the objective press tends to obscure the unavoidable biases of media owners’ class interests and reporters’ position in society, but then i do not pretend to objectivity, and i’m honest about my blog being more or less one big editorial page, from my perspective)

    if the enterprise wants its claim to objective reporting be taken seriously, it should not toss out headlines like that one. save it for the op ed page, or drop the pretense of impartiality.

  6. 無名 - wu ming

    yup. pretty blatant editorializing. i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye. pretty unprofessional, given that they still (rhetorically, at least) claim to aspire to the concept of an impartial, objective press.

    (personally, i tend to think that the concept of the objective press tends to obscure the unavoidable biases of media owners’ class interests and reporters’ position in society, but then i do not pretend to objectivity, and i’m honest about my blog being more or less one big editorial page, from my perspective)

    if the enterprise wants its claim to objective reporting be taken seriously, it should not toss out headlines like that one. save it for the op ed page, or drop the pretense of impartiality.

  7. 無名 - wu ming

    yup. pretty blatant editorializing. i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye. pretty unprofessional, given that they still (rhetorically, at least) claim to aspire to the concept of an impartial, objective press.

    (personally, i tend to think that the concept of the objective press tends to obscure the unavoidable biases of media owners’ class interests and reporters’ position in society, but then i do not pretend to objectivity, and i’m honest about my blog being more or less one big editorial page, from my perspective)

    if the enterprise wants its claim to objective reporting be taken seriously, it should not toss out headlines like that one. save it for the op ed page, or drop the pretense of impartiality.

  8. 無名 - wu ming

    yup. pretty blatant editorializing. i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye. pretty unprofessional, given that they still (rhetorically, at least) claim to aspire to the concept of an impartial, objective press.

    (personally, i tend to think that the concept of the objective press tends to obscure the unavoidable biases of media owners’ class interests and reporters’ position in society, but then i do not pretend to objectivity, and i’m honest about my blog being more or less one big editorial page, from my perspective)

    if the enterprise wants its claim to objective reporting be taken seriously, it should not toss out headlines like that one. save it for the op ed page, or drop the pretense of impartiality.

  9. Richard

    what’s the surprise here? a small town paper, with small town columnists (can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?) that belongs to the Chamber of Commerce?

    I’d be curious to know the average age of an Enterprise subscriber, my guess is that it is way, way over 40 years of age, and that, within the next 5-10 years, given trends in the industry (loss of ads to online sites like Craigslist)and its inability to appeal to a younger audience with its Pleistocene social values, the paper will have either been sold or gone out of business

    –Richard Estes

  10. Richard

    what’s the surprise here? a small town paper, with small town columnists (can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?) that belongs to the Chamber of Commerce?

    I’d be curious to know the average age of an Enterprise subscriber, my guess is that it is way, way over 40 years of age, and that, within the next 5-10 years, given trends in the industry (loss of ads to online sites like Craigslist)and its inability to appeal to a younger audience with its Pleistocene social values, the paper will have either been sold or gone out of business

    –Richard Estes

  11. Richard

    what’s the surprise here? a small town paper, with small town columnists (can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?) that belongs to the Chamber of Commerce?

    I’d be curious to know the average age of an Enterprise subscriber, my guess is that it is way, way over 40 years of age, and that, within the next 5-10 years, given trends in the industry (loss of ads to online sites like Craigslist)and its inability to appeal to a younger audience with its Pleistocene social values, the paper will have either been sold or gone out of business

    –Richard Estes

  12. Richard

    what’s the surprise here? a small town paper, with small town columnists (can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?) that belongs to the Chamber of Commerce?

    I’d be curious to know the average age of an Enterprise subscriber, my guess is that it is way, way over 40 years of age, and that, within the next 5-10 years, given trends in the industry (loss of ads to online sites like Craigslist)and its inability to appeal to a younger audience with its Pleistocene social values, the paper will have either been sold or gone out of business

    –Richard Estes

  13. Vincente

    We know the Enterprise reads this blog, I’d be very curious to hear what the explanation for this headline is. To me it is clearly biased.

  14. Vincente

    We know the Enterprise reads this blog, I’d be very curious to hear what the explanation for this headline is. To me it is clearly biased.

  15. Vincente

    We know the Enterprise reads this blog, I’d be very curious to hear what the explanation for this headline is. To me it is clearly biased.

  16. Vincente

    We know the Enterprise reads this blog, I’d be very curious to hear what the explanation for this headline is. To me it is clearly biased.

  17. Rich Rifkin

    “i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye.”

    Wu,

    So when you wrote on this blog that you agreed with David Greenwald’s criticism of my piece on the mentally ill and guns, where he labelled me a ‘fearmonger,’ you actually never even read my column?

    “can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?”

    Richard Estes, who told me that he doesn’t read The Enterprise, doesn’t read my column, and didn’t read this particular column, doesn’t know what he is talking about.

    Yes, I did call crazy people crazy people. I know that honesty in language is a crime among the extreme left wingers. So, if you are so uptight that you will never refer to crazy people as crazy people, the problem is with you, not me.

    Also, you are wrong — because you did not read the column — about my reference to ‘loony bins.’ The sole usage of that colloquial term, which is simply slang for a mental hospital, was in reference to the mental hospitals of the 1960s, which in many cases were not great places to be, and due to the pharmacological limitations of the day (though changing quickly at that time) often unable to help their patients.

    You say that The Bee would never permit someone in an opinion column to refer to a 1960s era mental hospital as ‘a loony bin.’ Well, if so, that speaks terribly of The Bee. I doubt that you are right. I don’t think The Bee is as fascistic as you imply, enforcing such conformity in all things.

    You don’t strike me as an intellectual man. However, if you ever could force yourself to actually read something about which you so willingly flail about unsubstantiated opinions, then read Ken Kesey’s great novel, “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”

    If you could loosen up your underwear and have an open mind, you might learn a bit about ‘loony bins’ and ‘cuckoo’s nests.’ Now, maybe your beloved Sacramento Bee would never mention Ken Kesey’s book because Kesey refers to a mental hospitals as ‘cuckoo’s nest.’ But if The Bee is as stupid as you imply it is, then it would be The Bee’s readers loss.

  18. Rich Rifkin

    “i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye.”

    Wu,

    So when you wrote on this blog that you agreed with David Greenwald’s criticism of my piece on the mentally ill and guns, where he labelled me a ‘fearmonger,’ you actually never even read my column?

    “can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?”

    Richard Estes, who told me that he doesn’t read The Enterprise, doesn’t read my column, and didn’t read this particular column, doesn’t know what he is talking about.

    Yes, I did call crazy people crazy people. I know that honesty in language is a crime among the extreme left wingers. So, if you are so uptight that you will never refer to crazy people as crazy people, the problem is with you, not me.

    Also, you are wrong — because you did not read the column — about my reference to ‘loony bins.’ The sole usage of that colloquial term, which is simply slang for a mental hospital, was in reference to the mental hospitals of the 1960s, which in many cases were not great places to be, and due to the pharmacological limitations of the day (though changing quickly at that time) often unable to help their patients.

    You say that The Bee would never permit someone in an opinion column to refer to a 1960s era mental hospital as ‘a loony bin.’ Well, if so, that speaks terribly of The Bee. I doubt that you are right. I don’t think The Bee is as fascistic as you imply, enforcing such conformity in all things.

    You don’t strike me as an intellectual man. However, if you ever could force yourself to actually read something about which you so willingly flail about unsubstantiated opinions, then read Ken Kesey’s great novel, “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”

    If you could loosen up your underwear and have an open mind, you might learn a bit about ‘loony bins’ and ‘cuckoo’s nests.’ Now, maybe your beloved Sacramento Bee would never mention Ken Kesey’s book because Kesey refers to a mental hospitals as ‘cuckoo’s nest.’ But if The Bee is as stupid as you imply it is, then it would be The Bee’s readers loss.

  19. Rich Rifkin

    “i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye.”

    Wu,

    So when you wrote on this blog that you agreed with David Greenwald’s criticism of my piece on the mentally ill and guns, where he labelled me a ‘fearmonger,’ you actually never even read my column?

    “can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?”

    Richard Estes, who told me that he doesn’t read The Enterprise, doesn’t read my column, and didn’t read this particular column, doesn’t know what he is talking about.

    Yes, I did call crazy people crazy people. I know that honesty in language is a crime among the extreme left wingers. So, if you are so uptight that you will never refer to crazy people as crazy people, the problem is with you, not me.

    Also, you are wrong — because you did not read the column — about my reference to ‘loony bins.’ The sole usage of that colloquial term, which is simply slang for a mental hospital, was in reference to the mental hospitals of the 1960s, which in many cases were not great places to be, and due to the pharmacological limitations of the day (though changing quickly at that time) often unable to help their patients.

    You say that The Bee would never permit someone in an opinion column to refer to a 1960s era mental hospital as ‘a loony bin.’ Well, if so, that speaks terribly of The Bee. I doubt that you are right. I don’t think The Bee is as fascistic as you imply, enforcing such conformity in all things.

    You don’t strike me as an intellectual man. However, if you ever could force yourself to actually read something about which you so willingly flail about unsubstantiated opinions, then read Ken Kesey’s great novel, “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”

    If you could loosen up your underwear and have an open mind, you might learn a bit about ‘loony bins’ and ‘cuckoo’s nests.’ Now, maybe your beloved Sacramento Bee would never mention Ken Kesey’s book because Kesey refers to a mental hospitals as ‘cuckoo’s nest.’ But if The Bee is as stupid as you imply it is, then it would be The Bee’s readers loss.

  20. Rich Rifkin

    “i have long since stopped getting the enterprise, the only way i even knew about it was when i walked by one of those newspaper boxes downtown, and the headline caught my eye.”

    Wu,

    So when you wrote on this blog that you agreed with David Greenwald’s criticism of my piece on the mentally ill and guns, where he labelled me a ‘fearmonger,’ you actually never even read my column?

    “can you imagine the Sacramento Bee running a column with references to mentally disordered people as crazy people and the place where they should be housed as the looney bin?”

    Richard Estes, who told me that he doesn’t read The Enterprise, doesn’t read my column, and didn’t read this particular column, doesn’t know what he is talking about.

    Yes, I did call crazy people crazy people. I know that honesty in language is a crime among the extreme left wingers. So, if you are so uptight that you will never refer to crazy people as crazy people, the problem is with you, not me.

    Also, you are wrong — because you did not read the column — about my reference to ‘loony bins.’ The sole usage of that colloquial term, which is simply slang for a mental hospital, was in reference to the mental hospitals of the 1960s, which in many cases were not great places to be, and due to the pharmacological limitations of the day (though changing quickly at that time) often unable to help their patients.

    You say that The Bee would never permit someone in an opinion column to refer to a 1960s era mental hospital as ‘a loony bin.’ Well, if so, that speaks terribly of The Bee. I doubt that you are right. I don’t think The Bee is as fascistic as you imply, enforcing such conformity in all things.

    You don’t strike me as an intellectual man. However, if you ever could force yourself to actually read something about which you so willingly flail about unsubstantiated opinions, then read Ken Kesey’s great novel, “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”

    If you could loosen up your underwear and have an open mind, you might learn a bit about ‘loony bins’ and ‘cuckoo’s nests.’ Now, maybe your beloved Sacramento Bee would never mention Ken Kesey’s book because Kesey refers to a mental hospitals as ‘cuckoo’s nest.’ But if The Bee is as stupid as you imply it is, then it would be The Bee’s readers loss.

  21. Rich Rifkin

    For all of the other fascists who always want conformity in language and condemn me for writing something that they never read, here is the exact quote where I refered to 1960s era mental hospitals as ‘loony bins,’ obviously a horrible crime against humanity:

    “This problem goes back to the deinstitutionalization of the 1960s, when we emptied out and ultimately closed most of our insane asylums. Closing down the loony bins didn’t get rid of psychotics. It largely has put them out on the streets, where many become homeless and others wind up in prisons.”

  22. Rich Rifkin

    For all of the other fascists who always want conformity in language and condemn me for writing something that they never read, here is the exact quote where I refered to 1960s era mental hospitals as ‘loony bins,’ obviously a horrible crime against humanity:

    “This problem goes back to the deinstitutionalization of the 1960s, when we emptied out and ultimately closed most of our insane asylums. Closing down the loony bins didn’t get rid of psychotics. It largely has put them out on the streets, where many become homeless and others wind up in prisons.”

  23. Rich Rifkin

    For all of the other fascists who always want conformity in language and condemn me for writing something that they never read, here is the exact quote where I refered to 1960s era mental hospitals as ‘loony bins,’ obviously a horrible crime against humanity:

    “This problem goes back to the deinstitutionalization of the 1960s, when we emptied out and ultimately closed most of our insane asylums. Closing down the loony bins didn’t get rid of psychotics. It largely has put them out on the streets, where many become homeless and others wind up in prisons.”

  24. Rich Rifkin

    For all of the other fascists who always want conformity in language and condemn me for writing something that they never read, here is the exact quote where I refered to 1960s era mental hospitals as ‘loony bins,’ obviously a horrible crime against humanity:

    “This problem goes back to the deinstitutionalization of the 1960s, when we emptied out and ultimately closed most of our insane asylums. Closing down the loony bins didn’t get rid of psychotics. It largely has put them out on the streets, where many become homeless and others wind up in prisons.”

  25. Richard

    Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals

    the Enterprise, well . . . I think that your column about people with mental disorders and your response here today speaks for itself, and the tone is . . . well, shall we say, definitely not professional

    on a more substantive level, contrary to what you say, the term “crazy people” is not recognized as an accurate term for describing people with a mental disorder for the rather obvious reason that it is insulting and offensive and fails to acknowledge that they suffer from a variety of physical ailments and chemical imbalances that impairs their ability to function

    furthermore, since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”, if I take your meaning to be that they are unable to act in a way that is acceptable to people around them

    as for “loony bin” . . . well, need I go on, although, I can’t resist (BA-DA-BOOM!) the obvious punch line . . . perhaps, it is an accurate description of the Enterprise editoral offices

    –Richard Estes

  26. Richard

    Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals

    the Enterprise, well . . . I think that your column about people with mental disorders and your response here today speaks for itself, and the tone is . . . well, shall we say, definitely not professional

    on a more substantive level, contrary to what you say, the term “crazy people” is not recognized as an accurate term for describing people with a mental disorder for the rather obvious reason that it is insulting and offensive and fails to acknowledge that they suffer from a variety of physical ailments and chemical imbalances that impairs their ability to function

    furthermore, since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”, if I take your meaning to be that they are unable to act in a way that is acceptable to people around them

    as for “loony bin” . . . well, need I go on, although, I can’t resist (BA-DA-BOOM!) the obvious punch line . . . perhaps, it is an accurate description of the Enterprise editoral offices

    –Richard Estes

  27. Richard

    Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals

    the Enterprise, well . . . I think that your column about people with mental disorders and your response here today speaks for itself, and the tone is . . . well, shall we say, definitely not professional

    on a more substantive level, contrary to what you say, the term “crazy people” is not recognized as an accurate term for describing people with a mental disorder for the rather obvious reason that it is insulting and offensive and fails to acknowledge that they suffer from a variety of physical ailments and chemical imbalances that impairs their ability to function

    furthermore, since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”, if I take your meaning to be that they are unable to act in a way that is acceptable to people around them

    as for “loony bin” . . . well, need I go on, although, I can’t resist (BA-DA-BOOM!) the obvious punch line . . . perhaps, it is an accurate description of the Enterprise editoral offices

    –Richard Estes

  28. Richard

    Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals

    the Enterprise, well . . . I think that your column about people with mental disorders and your response here today speaks for itself, and the tone is . . . well, shall we say, definitely not professional

    on a more substantive level, contrary to what you say, the term “crazy people” is not recognized as an accurate term for describing people with a mental disorder for the rather obvious reason that it is insulting and offensive and fails to acknowledge that they suffer from a variety of physical ailments and chemical imbalances that impairs their ability to function

    furthermore, since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”, if I take your meaning to be that they are unable to act in a way that is acceptable to people around them

    as for “loony bin” . . . well, need I go on, although, I can’t resist (BA-DA-BOOM!) the obvious punch line . . . perhaps, it is an accurate description of the Enterprise editoral offices

    –Richard Estes

  29. Rich Rifkin

    “since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”

    Richard, since you continue to bury yourself by criticizing me for my writing in a piece that you clearly never read, I should inform you that I never made any reference to anti-social behavior, other than the actions of one person, Seung-Hui Cho, who seemingly everyone who knew him even a little bit knew he was crazy.

    Richard, if you want to play a word fascist on this site, then I suggest you at least read the pieces of which you are so concerned.

  30. Rich Rifkin

    “since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”

    Richard, since you continue to bury yourself by criticizing me for my writing in a piece that you clearly never read, I should inform you that I never made any reference to anti-social behavior, other than the actions of one person, Seung-Hui Cho, who seemingly everyone who knew him even a little bit knew he was crazy.

    Richard, if you want to play a word fascist on this site, then I suggest you at least read the pieces of which you are so concerned.

  31. Rich Rifkin

    “since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”

    Richard, since you continue to bury yourself by criticizing me for my writing in a piece that you clearly never read, I should inform you that I never made any reference to anti-social behavior, other than the actions of one person, Seung-Hui Cho, who seemingly everyone who knew him even a little bit knew he was crazy.

    Richard, if you want to play a word fascist on this site, then I suggest you at least read the pieces of which you are so concerned.

  32. Rich Rifkin

    “since you have induced me to engage in this William Safire-like evaluation of language, many people with mental disorders do not display any behaviors that would be considered anti-social, or, as you say, “crazy”

    Richard, since you continue to bury yourself by criticizing me for my writing in a piece that you clearly never read, I should inform you that I never made any reference to anti-social behavior, other than the actions of one person, Seung-Hui Cho, who seemingly everyone who knew him even a little bit knew he was crazy.

    Richard, if you want to play a word fascist on this site, then I suggest you at least read the pieces of which you are so concerned.

  33. Vincente

    I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous. I believe there is a thread to discuss it. This one is on a different issue.

  34. Vincente

    I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous. I believe there is a thread to discuss it. This one is on a different issue.

  35. Vincente

    I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous. I believe there is a thread to discuss it. This one is on a different issue.

  36. Vincente

    I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous. I believe there is a thread to discuss it. This one is on a different issue.

  37. Don Shor

    When I took a class in journalism in high school, we often did exercises trying to write catchy headlines that weren’t biased and that fit within the space limits.
    “City opts for history over commerce”
    and
    “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site”
    both have flaws.
    But I’m curious what headline folks here would write that would reflect the conflict without showing some kind of bias.

  38. Don Shor

    When I took a class in journalism in high school, we often did exercises trying to write catchy headlines that weren’t biased and that fit within the space limits.
    “City opts for history over commerce”
    and
    “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site”
    both have flaws.
    But I’m curious what headline folks here would write that would reflect the conflict without showing some kind of bias.

  39. Don Shor

    When I took a class in journalism in high school, we often did exercises trying to write catchy headlines that weren’t biased and that fit within the space limits.
    “City opts for history over commerce”
    and
    “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site”
    both have flaws.
    But I’m curious what headline folks here would write that would reflect the conflict without showing some kind of bias.

  40. Don Shor

    When I took a class in journalism in high school, we often did exercises trying to write catchy headlines that weren’t biased and that fit within the space limits.
    “City opts for history over commerce”
    and
    “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site”
    both have flaws.
    But I’m curious what headline folks here would write that would reflect the conflict without showing some kind of bias.

  41. Rich Rifkin

    “I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous.”

    You certainly have the right to be disgusted at whatever disgusts you. Hopefully, your disgust won’t always cloud your thinking, the way it seems to on most issues which require a modicum of wit.

  42. Rich Rifkin

    “I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous.”

    You certainly have the right to be disgusted at whatever disgusts you. Hopefully, your disgust won’t always cloud your thinking, the way it seems to on most issues which require a modicum of wit.

  43. Rich Rifkin

    “I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous.”

    You certainly have the right to be disgusted at whatever disgusts you. Hopefully, your disgust won’t always cloud your thinking, the way it seems to on most issues which require a modicum of wit.

  44. Rich Rifkin

    “I read your piece and I thought it was disgusting and outrageous.”

    You certainly have the right to be disgusted at whatever disgusts you. Hopefully, your disgust won’t always cloud your thinking, the way it seems to on most issues which require a modicum of wit.

  45. Anonymous

    How about Kidd loses again for a headline.

    As for Rifkin why is it that you can engage in all this name calling but if someone says something about you your response is to threaten to sue for defamation?

    How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that? Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read. Maybe he read the quotes on this blog.

    Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.

    Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.

  46. Anonymous

    How about Kidd loses again for a headline.

    As for Rifkin why is it that you can engage in all this name calling but if someone says something about you your response is to threaten to sue for defamation?

    How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that? Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read. Maybe he read the quotes on this blog.

    Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.

    Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.

  47. Anonymous

    How about Kidd loses again for a headline.

    As for Rifkin why is it that you can engage in all this name calling but if someone says something about you your response is to threaten to sue for defamation?

    How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that? Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read. Maybe he read the quotes on this blog.

    Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.

    Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.

  48. Anonymous

    How about Kidd loses again for a headline.

    As for Rifkin why is it that you can engage in all this name calling but if someone says something about you your response is to threaten to sue for defamation?

    How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that? Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read. Maybe he read the quotes on this blog.

    Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.

    Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.

  49. Anonymous

    Don: I guess I thought the latter accurate and fair. It described what happened. Whereas the Enterprise did have a catchy title, but I don’t think accurately reflected what happened.

    Rich: I thought the use of langauge was inappropriate, the support for your position tenuous, and the conclusion not only unachievable but cynical and poorly informed. When challenged you appeared to misunderstand and mis-attribute the criticism. Most agree there to be a problem, few believe your solution a reasonable or responsible or even a workable one.

  50. Anonymous

    Don: I guess I thought the latter accurate and fair. It described what happened. Whereas the Enterprise did have a catchy title, but I don’t think accurately reflected what happened.

    Rich: I thought the use of langauge was inappropriate, the support for your position tenuous, and the conclusion not only unachievable but cynical and poorly informed. When challenged you appeared to misunderstand and mis-attribute the criticism. Most agree there to be a problem, few believe your solution a reasonable or responsible or even a workable one.

  51. Anonymous

    Don: I guess I thought the latter accurate and fair. It described what happened. Whereas the Enterprise did have a catchy title, but I don’t think accurately reflected what happened.

    Rich: I thought the use of langauge was inappropriate, the support for your position tenuous, and the conclusion not only unachievable but cynical and poorly informed. When challenged you appeared to misunderstand and mis-attribute the criticism. Most agree there to be a problem, few believe your solution a reasonable or responsible or even a workable one.

  52. Anonymous

    Don: I guess I thought the latter accurate and fair. It described what happened. Whereas the Enterprise did have a catchy title, but I don’t think accurately reflected what happened.

    Rich: I thought the use of langauge was inappropriate, the support for your position tenuous, and the conclusion not only unachievable but cynical and poorly informed. When challenged you appeared to misunderstand and mis-attribute the criticism. Most agree there to be a problem, few believe your solution a reasonable or responsible or even a workable one.

  53. Rich Rifkin

    “How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that?”

    Yes. Estes said on this blog that he does not read The Enterprise and that he does not read my column, which only appears in The Enterprise.

    Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read.”

    Yes, I am.

    “Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.”

    It’s good to know that a scholarly fellow such as yourself thinks so highly of me. Alas, you seem to not understand the difference between the words intellectual and intelligent.

    It is interesting, nonetheless, to hear that I am “a right wing bigot” and “a fool.”

    A bigot is “a person who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.”

    I wonder which racial or ethnic group it is that you feel I have treated with hatred or intolerance?

    “Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.”

    Damn, I was sure hoping for that all-white jury.

    What if I got a jury of 3 Albanians, 2 Afghanis, 1 Bengali, 2 Chileans, 1 Dane, 2 Ethiopians and a Frenchman? Would my chances improve?

  54. Rich Rifkin

    “How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that?”

    Yes. Estes said on this blog that he does not read The Enterprise and that he does not read my column, which only appears in The Enterprise.

    Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read.”

    Yes, I am.

    “Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.”

    It’s good to know that a scholarly fellow such as yourself thinks so highly of me. Alas, you seem to not understand the difference between the words intellectual and intelligent.

    It is interesting, nonetheless, to hear that I am “a right wing bigot” and “a fool.”

    A bigot is “a person who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.”

    I wonder which racial or ethnic group it is that you feel I have treated with hatred or intolerance?

    “Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.”

    Damn, I was sure hoping for that all-white jury.

    What if I got a jury of 3 Albanians, 2 Afghanis, 1 Bengali, 2 Chileans, 1 Dane, 2 Ethiopians and a Frenchman? Would my chances improve?

  55. Rich Rifkin

    “How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that?”

    Yes. Estes said on this blog that he does not read The Enterprise and that he does not read my column, which only appears in The Enterprise.

    Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read.”

    Yes, I am.

    “Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.”

    It’s good to know that a scholarly fellow such as yourself thinks so highly of me. Alas, you seem to not understand the difference between the words intellectual and intelligent.

    It is interesting, nonetheless, to hear that I am “a right wing bigot” and “a fool.”

    A bigot is “a person who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.”

    I wonder which racial or ethnic group it is that you feel I have treated with hatred or intolerance?

    “Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.”

    Damn, I was sure hoping for that all-white jury.

    What if I got a jury of 3 Albanians, 2 Afghanis, 1 Bengali, 2 Chileans, 1 Dane, 2 Ethiopians and a Frenchman? Would my chances improve?

  56. Rich Rifkin

    “How do you know that Estes didn’t read the piece? Did he ever say that?”

    Yes. Estes said on this blog that he does not read The Enterprise and that he does not read my column, which only appears in The Enterprise.

    Aren’t you always calling people on every little misquote and then you insult Estes by assuming you know what he has read or not read.”

    Yes, I am.

    “Its amazing that you are someone who purports to be so intellectual when in reality you are a dumb right wing bigot who is fool enough to keep on writing even after the entire world wide web can see what a fool you are.”

    It’s good to know that a scholarly fellow such as yourself thinks so highly of me. Alas, you seem to not understand the difference between the words intellectual and intelligent.

    It is interesting, nonetheless, to hear that I am “a right wing bigot” and “a fool.”

    A bigot is “a person who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.”

    I wonder which racial or ethnic group it is that you feel I have treated with hatred or intolerance?

    “Oh and by the way you are a public person with a news column you couldn’t win a defamation case even if you spent millions on legal fees and could get an all white Yolo county jury.”

    Damn, I was sure hoping for that all-white jury.

    What if I got a jury of 3 Albanians, 2 Afghanis, 1 Bengali, 2 Chileans, 1 Dane, 2 Ethiopians and a Frenchman? Would my chances improve?

  57. Anonymous

    I did not read an “assumtion” rather speculation based on the headline and the chamber board’s unanamous vote. These relationships inherently lead to questions. If debbie wishes to avoid such speculation she needs to distance herself from such decision making parts of bodies like the chamber.

  58. Anonymous

    I did not read an “assumtion” rather speculation based on the headline and the chamber board’s unanamous vote. These relationships inherently lead to questions. If debbie wishes to avoid such speculation she needs to distance herself from such decision making parts of bodies like the chamber.

  59. Anonymous

    I did not read an “assumtion” rather speculation based on the headline and the chamber board’s unanamous vote. These relationships inherently lead to questions. If debbie wishes to avoid such speculation she needs to distance herself from such decision making parts of bodies like the chamber.

  60. Anonymous

    I did not read an “assumtion” rather speculation based on the headline and the chamber board’s unanamous vote. These relationships inherently lead to questions. If debbie wishes to avoid such speculation she needs to distance herself from such decision making parts of bodies like the chamber.

  61. Blog Administrator

    Again, I ask Vanguard posters not to be sucked into wasting space and time with “I know you are but what am I” schoolyard antics with Rich Rifkin. Retorts are fruitless. I suggest that these purposefully provocative(?) postings be left to drift aimlessly and unresponded to out there in the blogging ether.

  62. Blog Administrator

    Again, I ask Vanguard posters not to be sucked into wasting space and time with “I know you are but what am I” schoolyard antics with Rich Rifkin. Retorts are fruitless. I suggest that these purposefully provocative(?) postings be left to drift aimlessly and unresponded to out there in the blogging ether.

  63. Blog Administrator

    Again, I ask Vanguard posters not to be sucked into wasting space and time with “I know you are but what am I” schoolyard antics with Rich Rifkin. Retorts are fruitless. I suggest that these purposefully provocative(?) postings be left to drift aimlessly and unresponded to out there in the blogging ether.

  64. Blog Administrator

    Again, I ask Vanguard posters not to be sucked into wasting space and time with “I know you are but what am I” schoolyard antics with Rich Rifkin. Retorts are fruitless. I suggest that these purposefully provocative(?) postings be left to drift aimlessly and unresponded to out there in the blogging ether.

  65. Don Shor

    I don’t think the Enterprise took any official position on the issue (I could be wrong). I see no reason to believe that the editor of the Enterprise adopts every official position of the Chamber of Commerce board as her own. Reasonable people came to different conclusions about this issue.

    As for more neutral headlines?
    Maybe…
    Council Rejects Building Window Changes.

    The problem with “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site” is that it only tells one side of the story.

    In fact there was a conflict here between enhanced retail (or at least the owner’s perception of it) and historic preservation (as defined by the experts, or apparently most of them). Conflict is part of news stories, and that was reflected in the Enterprise headline.

    I’m still wondering where all of you are going to come down on the pump house issue….

  66. Don Shor

    I don’t think the Enterprise took any official position on the issue (I could be wrong). I see no reason to believe that the editor of the Enterprise adopts every official position of the Chamber of Commerce board as her own. Reasonable people came to different conclusions about this issue.

    As for more neutral headlines?
    Maybe…
    Council Rejects Building Window Changes.

    The problem with “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site” is that it only tells one side of the story.

    In fact there was a conflict here between enhanced retail (or at least the owner’s perception of it) and historic preservation (as defined by the experts, or apparently most of them). Conflict is part of news stories, and that was reflected in the Enterprise headline.

    I’m still wondering where all of you are going to come down on the pump house issue….

  67. Don Shor

    I don’t think the Enterprise took any official position on the issue (I could be wrong). I see no reason to believe that the editor of the Enterprise adopts every official position of the Chamber of Commerce board as her own. Reasonable people came to different conclusions about this issue.

    As for more neutral headlines?
    Maybe…
    Council Rejects Building Window Changes.

    The problem with “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site” is that it only tells one side of the story.

    In fact there was a conflict here between enhanced retail (or at least the owner’s perception of it) and historic preservation (as defined by the experts, or apparently most of them). Conflict is part of news stories, and that was reflected in the Enterprise headline.

    I’m still wondering where all of you are going to come down on the pump house issue….

  68. Don Shor

    I don’t think the Enterprise took any official position on the issue (I could be wrong). I see no reason to believe that the editor of the Enterprise adopts every official position of the Chamber of Commerce board as her own. Reasonable people came to different conclusions about this issue.

    As for more neutral headlines?
    Maybe…
    Council Rejects Building Window Changes.

    The problem with “Council Preserves Anderson Bank Building as an Historic Site” is that it only tells one side of the story.

    In fact there was a conflict here between enhanced retail (or at least the owner’s perception of it) and historic preservation (as defined by the experts, or apparently most of them). Conflict is part of news stories, and that was reflected in the Enterprise headline.

    I’m still wondering where all of you are going to come down on the pump house issue….

  69. Don Shor

    “Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals…”

    Three words: Diana Griego Erwin

  70. Don Shor

    “Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals…”

    Three words: Diana Griego Erwin

  71. Don Shor

    “Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals…”

    Three words: Diana Griego Erwin

  72. Don Shor

    “Rich: the Bee, for all of its problems, and there are quite a few, is a newspaper run by professionals…”

    Three words: Diana Griego Erwin

  73. Anonymous

    Yes the professionals at the Bee fired her for making stuff up. Wasn’t that was a sign of them maintaining their journalistic integrity?

  74. Anonymous

    Yes the professionals at the Bee fired her for making stuff up. Wasn’t that was a sign of them maintaining their journalistic integrity?

  75. Anonymous

    Yes the professionals at the Bee fired her for making stuff up. Wasn’t that was a sign of them maintaining their journalistic integrity?

  76. Anonymous

    Yes the professionals at the Bee fired her for making stuff up. Wasn’t that was a sign of them maintaining their journalistic integrity?

  77. 無名 - wu ming

    well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating). i tend to go back and forth on historical preservation, depending on the particulars of the case; i was not a fan of preserving the historic underpass, for example.

    as for a neutral headline, don’s “council rejects building window changes” would be fine, as it doesn’t push either side of the argument’s framing (apologies for the terrible pun).

    and while i don’t have the time tonight to get into too much of a back and forth with rifkin, i will simply point out that my response to david was:

    “well said, david, and quite focused on the points of disagreement.”

    which was, if you read it carefully, a complement on what i thought was a well-argued peice, and focused on the specific points of disagreement that he had with your argument (which i read through the excerpts that he quoted). i thought he made a compelling point, and stayed on topic, and so i said so.

    for someone who is so loud about opposing PC language when applied to other people, you do tend to be fairly oversensitive about percieved personal slights.

  78. 無名 - wu ming

    well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating). i tend to go back and forth on historical preservation, depending on the particulars of the case; i was not a fan of preserving the historic underpass, for example.

    as for a neutral headline, don’s “council rejects building window changes” would be fine, as it doesn’t push either side of the argument’s framing (apologies for the terrible pun).

    and while i don’t have the time tonight to get into too much of a back and forth with rifkin, i will simply point out that my response to david was:

    “well said, david, and quite focused on the points of disagreement.”

    which was, if you read it carefully, a complement on what i thought was a well-argued peice, and focused on the specific points of disagreement that he had with your argument (which i read through the excerpts that he quoted). i thought he made a compelling point, and stayed on topic, and so i said so.

    for someone who is so loud about opposing PC language when applied to other people, you do tend to be fairly oversensitive about percieved personal slights.

  79. 無名 - wu ming

    well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating). i tend to go back and forth on historical preservation, depending on the particulars of the case; i was not a fan of preserving the historic underpass, for example.

    as for a neutral headline, don’s “council rejects building window changes” would be fine, as it doesn’t push either side of the argument’s framing (apologies for the terrible pun).

    and while i don’t have the time tonight to get into too much of a back and forth with rifkin, i will simply point out that my response to david was:

    “well said, david, and quite focused on the points of disagreement.”

    which was, if you read it carefully, a complement on what i thought was a well-argued peice, and focused on the specific points of disagreement that he had with your argument (which i read through the excerpts that he quoted). i thought he made a compelling point, and stayed on topic, and so i said so.

    for someone who is so loud about opposing PC language when applied to other people, you do tend to be fairly oversensitive about percieved personal slights.

  80. 無名 - wu ming

    well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating). i tend to go back and forth on historical preservation, depending on the particulars of the case; i was not a fan of preserving the historic underpass, for example.

    as for a neutral headline, don’s “council rejects building window changes” would be fine, as it doesn’t push either side of the argument’s framing (apologies for the terrible pun).

    and while i don’t have the time tonight to get into too much of a back and forth with rifkin, i will simply point out that my response to david was:

    “well said, david, and quite focused on the points of disagreement.”

    which was, if you read it carefully, a complement on what i thought was a well-argued peice, and focused on the specific points of disagreement that he had with your argument (which i read through the excerpts that he quoted). i thought he made a compelling point, and stayed on topic, and so i said so.

    for someone who is so loud about opposing PC language when applied to other people, you do tend to be fairly oversensitive about percieved personal slights.

  81. Rich Rifkin

    “well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating).”

    While many people mistakenly think that it is a ‘pumphouse,’ it actually is/was a ‘tankhouse.’ The distinction is that a pumphouse is an outbuilding used to cover a well-head, while a tankhouse (much like a personalized version of the water-towers we have in Davis) is an outbuilding, fitted with a large storage tank in its upper chamber. The water, naturally, would serve the needs of the home it is/was attached to.

    The important thing to understand about the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is that it does not have any historical significance by itself. Rather, its significance is as a part of the historic Hunt-Boyer property.

    For that reason, it makes no sense to remove the tankhouse to another site, taking it out of its context. (Some have suggested it could be moved to the west side of the mansion. If that were feasible, I would not oppose it. However, it doesn’t look feasible to me.)

    Prior to the development of a municipal water system, every large home in Davis (both in the core area and on the surrounding farms) had its own tankhouse. (I think poorer people, who could not afford their own, purchased water supplies from neighbors who had one. Just how this worked is not clear to me.) Unfortunately, over the last 75 years, almost all the tankhouses in our area were torn down. Thus, the tankhouse attached to the Hunt-Boyer mansion serves as a rare surviving example of how urban residents lived in the early years of Davis and Davisville. So the removal or demolition of this tankhouse would be a loss to our history and a loss to the entire Hunt-Boyer mansion site.

    The bottom line for me is that we should not look at the tankhouse as a stand-alone piece of our history: we should look at it in context with the entire historic Hunt-Boyer site, which was given to the city for its preservation as an historically significant property.

  82. Rich Rifkin

    “well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating).”

    While many people mistakenly think that it is a ‘pumphouse,’ it actually is/was a ‘tankhouse.’ The distinction is that a pumphouse is an outbuilding used to cover a well-head, while a tankhouse (much like a personalized version of the water-towers we have in Davis) is an outbuilding, fitted with a large storage tank in its upper chamber. The water, naturally, would serve the needs of the home it is/was attached to.

    The important thing to understand about the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is that it does not have any historical significance by itself. Rather, its significance is as a part of the historic Hunt-Boyer property.

    For that reason, it makes no sense to remove the tankhouse to another site, taking it out of its context. (Some have suggested it could be moved to the west side of the mansion. If that were feasible, I would not oppose it. However, it doesn’t look feasible to me.)

    Prior to the development of a municipal water system, every large home in Davis (both in the core area and on the surrounding farms) had its own tankhouse. (I think poorer people, who could not afford their own, purchased water supplies from neighbors who had one. Just how this worked is not clear to me.) Unfortunately, over the last 75 years, almost all the tankhouses in our area were torn down. Thus, the tankhouse attached to the Hunt-Boyer mansion serves as a rare surviving example of how urban residents lived in the early years of Davis and Davisville. So the removal or demolition of this tankhouse would be a loss to our history and a loss to the entire Hunt-Boyer mansion site.

    The bottom line for me is that we should not look at the tankhouse as a stand-alone piece of our history: we should look at it in context with the entire historic Hunt-Boyer site, which was given to the city for its preservation as an historically significant property.

  83. Rich Rifkin

    “well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating).”

    While many people mistakenly think that it is a ‘pumphouse,’ it actually is/was a ‘tankhouse.’ The distinction is that a pumphouse is an outbuilding used to cover a well-head, while a tankhouse (much like a personalized version of the water-towers we have in Davis) is an outbuilding, fitted with a large storage tank in its upper chamber. The water, naturally, would serve the needs of the home it is/was attached to.

    The important thing to understand about the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is that it does not have any historical significance by itself. Rather, its significance is as a part of the historic Hunt-Boyer property.

    For that reason, it makes no sense to remove the tankhouse to another site, taking it out of its context. (Some have suggested it could be moved to the west side of the mansion. If that were feasible, I would not oppose it. However, it doesn’t look feasible to me.)

    Prior to the development of a municipal water system, every large home in Davis (both in the core area and on the surrounding farms) had its own tankhouse. (I think poorer people, who could not afford their own, purchased water supplies from neighbors who had one. Just how this worked is not clear to me.) Unfortunately, over the last 75 years, almost all the tankhouses in our area were torn down. Thus, the tankhouse attached to the Hunt-Boyer mansion serves as a rare surviving example of how urban residents lived in the early years of Davis and Davisville. So the removal or demolition of this tankhouse would be a loss to our history and a loss to the entire Hunt-Boyer mansion site.

    The bottom line for me is that we should not look at the tankhouse as a stand-alone piece of our history: we should look at it in context with the entire historic Hunt-Boyer site, which was given to the city for its preservation as an historically significant property.

  84. Rich Rifkin

    “well, i’ll have to hear the arguments on the pump house first, but off the top of my head i’m generally in favor of the idea of putting a coffee shop in that space (especially if they keep the citrus trees and make use of that fantastic outdoor seating).”

    While many people mistakenly think that it is a ‘pumphouse,’ it actually is/was a ‘tankhouse.’ The distinction is that a pumphouse is an outbuilding used to cover a well-head, while a tankhouse (much like a personalized version of the water-towers we have in Davis) is an outbuilding, fitted with a large storage tank in its upper chamber. The water, naturally, would serve the needs of the home it is/was attached to.

    The important thing to understand about the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is that it does not have any historical significance by itself. Rather, its significance is as a part of the historic Hunt-Boyer property.

    For that reason, it makes no sense to remove the tankhouse to another site, taking it out of its context. (Some have suggested it could be moved to the west side of the mansion. If that were feasible, I would not oppose it. However, it doesn’t look feasible to me.)

    Prior to the development of a municipal water system, every large home in Davis (both in the core area and on the surrounding farms) had its own tankhouse. (I think poorer people, who could not afford their own, purchased water supplies from neighbors who had one. Just how this worked is not clear to me.) Unfortunately, over the last 75 years, almost all the tankhouses in our area were torn down. Thus, the tankhouse attached to the Hunt-Boyer mansion serves as a rare surviving example of how urban residents lived in the early years of Davis and Davisville. So the removal or demolition of this tankhouse would be a loss to our history and a loss to the entire Hunt-Boyer mansion site.

    The bottom line for me is that we should not look at the tankhouse as a stand-alone piece of our history: we should look at it in context with the entire historic Hunt-Boyer site, which was given to the city for its preservation as an historically significant property.

  85. Rich Rifkin

    “So, is it your opinion that the historical preservation commission will object to any change that would remove the pump house?”

    Yes (the tankhouse). Of course, the HRMC has no power to deny an application to remove the tankhouse. That is up to the city council. Sue Greenwald has been the strongest proponent of doing just this.

    Not too long ago, Sinisa Novakovic, the fellow who owns Mishka’s and the Icekrimski Cafe, and who along with a partner operates The Varsity Theater, submitted a proposal to the city council to build a cafe (designed by Maria Ogrydziak) on the Hunt-Boyer property, attached to the Varsity. His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse. (At the time, the idea was floated that it could possibly be moved to the west side of the mansion. I would be all for that, if it really could be done. Some others on the HRMC, however, felt that putting it there destroyed its historic context.)

    Another issue with building a cafe there is that it would further crowd the historic mansion itself, which (if the history was to be preserved) should be left in the context of its orchard, its tankhouse, its lawn, etc.

    Preserving this bit of history — which was donated to the city for that explicit purpose — is only one value for our city. There are other competing values. I agree with those who say that a cafe would work well on that site, complementing the theater and making that block more attractive for shoppers and theatergoers. So that is the kind of decision that our elected officials have to make. It shouldn’t (and isn’t) up to a commission, the HRMC, charged with managing (not preserving) our historic resources, and obviously filled with people (like me) who have a bias in favor of not demolishing our historical legacy.

  86. Rich Rifkin

    “So, is it your opinion that the historical preservation commission will object to any change that would remove the pump house?”

    Yes (the tankhouse). Of course, the HRMC has no power to deny an application to remove the tankhouse. That is up to the city council. Sue Greenwald has been the strongest proponent of doing just this.

    Not too long ago, Sinisa Novakovic, the fellow who owns Mishka’s and the Icekrimski Cafe, and who along with a partner operates The Varsity Theater, submitted a proposal to the city council to build a cafe (designed by Maria Ogrydziak) on the Hunt-Boyer property, attached to the Varsity. His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse. (At the time, the idea was floated that it could possibly be moved to the west side of the mansion. I would be all for that, if it really could be done. Some others on the HRMC, however, felt that putting it there destroyed its historic context.)

    Another issue with building a cafe there is that it would further crowd the historic mansion itself, which (if the history was to be preserved) should be left in the context of its orchard, its tankhouse, its lawn, etc.

    Preserving this bit of history — which was donated to the city for that explicit purpose — is only one value for our city. There are other competing values. I agree with those who say that a cafe would work well on that site, complementing the theater and making that block more attractive for shoppers and theatergoers. So that is the kind of decision that our elected officials have to make. It shouldn’t (and isn’t) up to a commission, the HRMC, charged with managing (not preserving) our historic resources, and obviously filled with people (like me) who have a bias in favor of not demolishing our historical legacy.

  87. Rich Rifkin

    “So, is it your opinion that the historical preservation commission will object to any change that would remove the pump house?”

    Yes (the tankhouse). Of course, the HRMC has no power to deny an application to remove the tankhouse. That is up to the city council. Sue Greenwald has been the strongest proponent of doing just this.

    Not too long ago, Sinisa Novakovic, the fellow who owns Mishka’s and the Icekrimski Cafe, and who along with a partner operates The Varsity Theater, submitted a proposal to the city council to build a cafe (designed by Maria Ogrydziak) on the Hunt-Boyer property, attached to the Varsity. His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse. (At the time, the idea was floated that it could possibly be moved to the west side of the mansion. I would be all for that, if it really could be done. Some others on the HRMC, however, felt that putting it there destroyed its historic context.)

    Another issue with building a cafe there is that it would further crowd the historic mansion itself, which (if the history was to be preserved) should be left in the context of its orchard, its tankhouse, its lawn, etc.

    Preserving this bit of history — which was donated to the city for that explicit purpose — is only one value for our city. There are other competing values. I agree with those who say that a cafe would work well on that site, complementing the theater and making that block more attractive for shoppers and theatergoers. So that is the kind of decision that our elected officials have to make. It shouldn’t (and isn’t) up to a commission, the HRMC, charged with managing (not preserving) our historic resources, and obviously filled with people (like me) who have a bias in favor of not demolishing our historical legacy.

  88. Rich Rifkin

    “So, is it your opinion that the historical preservation commission will object to any change that would remove the pump house?”

    Yes (the tankhouse). Of course, the HRMC has no power to deny an application to remove the tankhouse. That is up to the city council. Sue Greenwald has been the strongest proponent of doing just this.

    Not too long ago, Sinisa Novakovic, the fellow who owns Mishka’s and the Icekrimski Cafe, and who along with a partner operates The Varsity Theater, submitted a proposal to the city council to build a cafe (designed by Maria Ogrydziak) on the Hunt-Boyer property, attached to the Varsity. His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse. (At the time, the idea was floated that it could possibly be moved to the west side of the mansion. I would be all for that, if it really could be done. Some others on the HRMC, however, felt that putting it there destroyed its historic context.)

    Another issue with building a cafe there is that it would further crowd the historic mansion itself, which (if the history was to be preserved) should be left in the context of its orchard, its tankhouse, its lawn, etc.

    Preserving this bit of history — which was donated to the city for that explicit purpose — is only one value for our city. There are other competing values. I agree with those who say that a cafe would work well on that site, complementing the theater and making that block more attractive for shoppers and theatergoers. So that is the kind of decision that our elected officials have to make. It shouldn’t (and isn’t) up to a commission, the HRMC, charged with managing (not preserving) our historic resources, and obviously filled with people (like me) who have a bias in favor of not demolishing our historical legacy.

  89. Rich Rifkin

    “His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse.”

    I think that is wrong. It was not rejected by the city council. I think a decision was simply put off.

    The following comes from a Davis Enterprise story from last July 26:

    Novakovic, Fenske and others Tuesday night said a cafe in place of the tankhouse would revitalize that block and increase business for the Varsity and surrounding businesses.

    “Next door right now, it’s kind of dark, kind of cluttered,” Fenske said. “We want to present a real warm, welcome environment around the Varsity. This will help.”

    But members of the Historical Resources Management Commission and other speakers stressed the need to keep the tankhouse where it belongs — near the Hunt-Boyer Mansion, to which it historically provided water.

    “The question isn’t what we should do with the tankhouse, it’s what should we do with the site,” former Mayor Ken Wagstaff said. “I think the council should be adverse to dividing the tankhouse and its mothership, so to speak.”

    Novakovic, exhibiting frustration, pointed out that the tankhouse had been neglected until now.

    “In 30 years, nobody put a penny into it,” he said. “The reason I’m here tonight is because the City Council put out a serious request for proposals, and I took it seriously.”

    Note: Novakovic is right to say that the tankhouse has been terribly neglected. In some respects, it is in bad shape. However, a private group of Davis citizens has been working hard to make some repairs, fix leaks, etc. to the building. So it is inaccurate to say that ‘nobody put a penny into it.’

    Although the council did extend the exclusive negotiating agreement with Novakovic, it doesn’t mean that the proposed building has an automatic green light.

    “Our entry into an (exclusive negotiating agreement) should never have been interpreted as a commitment, as a done deal,” Councilman Don Saylor said. “It was a commitment to keep talking.”

    Councilman Stephen Souza, the only member to vote against the agreement, said for his part, he doesn’t think a three-story building belongs on that site.

    “I just don’t think it fits the block,” he said.

    Novakovic said he was prepared to whittle down his plans.

    But Souza also spoke against moving the tankhouse, saying it would be awkward to put it on the west side of the property, and divisive to move it to somewhere like Central Park.

    Mayor Sue Greenwald defended the project, especially in light of the council’s original exclusive negotiating agreement, and warned against appearing unfriendly to business.

    “Our image is business unfriendly,” she said. “If we pull the rug out from under these guys after they invested half a million in cash and sweat equity (into the Varsity) our reputation will be abysmal.”

  90. Rich Rifkin

    “His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse.”

    I think that is wrong. It was not rejected by the city council. I think a decision was simply put off.

    The following comes from a Davis Enterprise story from last July 26:

    Novakovic, Fenske and others Tuesday night said a cafe in place of the tankhouse would revitalize that block and increase business for the Varsity and surrounding businesses.

    “Next door right now, it’s kind of dark, kind of cluttered,” Fenske said. “We want to present a real warm, welcome environment around the Varsity. This will help.”

    But members of the Historical Resources Management Commission and other speakers stressed the need to keep the tankhouse where it belongs — near the Hunt-Boyer Mansion, to which it historically provided water.

    “The question isn’t what we should do with the tankhouse, it’s what should we do with the site,” former Mayor Ken Wagstaff said. “I think the council should be adverse to dividing the tankhouse and its mothership, so to speak.”

    Novakovic, exhibiting frustration, pointed out that the tankhouse had been neglected until now.

    “In 30 years, nobody put a penny into it,” he said. “The reason I’m here tonight is because the City Council put out a serious request for proposals, and I took it seriously.”

    Note: Novakovic is right to say that the tankhouse has been terribly neglected. In some respects, it is in bad shape. However, a private group of Davis citizens has been working hard to make some repairs, fix leaks, etc. to the building. So it is inaccurate to say that ‘nobody put a penny into it.’

    Although the council did extend the exclusive negotiating agreement with Novakovic, it doesn’t mean that the proposed building has an automatic green light.

    “Our entry into an (exclusive negotiating agreement) should never have been interpreted as a commitment, as a done deal,” Councilman Don Saylor said. “It was a commitment to keep talking.”

    Councilman Stephen Souza, the only member to vote against the agreement, said for his part, he doesn’t think a three-story building belongs on that site.

    “I just don’t think it fits the block,” he said.

    Novakovic said he was prepared to whittle down his plans.

    But Souza also spoke against moving the tankhouse, saying it would be awkward to put it on the west side of the property, and divisive to move it to somewhere like Central Park.

    Mayor Sue Greenwald defended the project, especially in light of the council’s original exclusive negotiating agreement, and warned against appearing unfriendly to business.

    “Our image is business unfriendly,” she said. “If we pull the rug out from under these guys after they invested half a million in cash and sweat equity (into the Varsity) our reputation will be abysmal.”

  91. Rich Rifkin

    “His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse.”

    I think that is wrong. It was not rejected by the city council. I think a decision was simply put off.

    The following comes from a Davis Enterprise story from last July 26:

    Novakovic, Fenske and others Tuesday night said a cafe in place of the tankhouse would revitalize that block and increase business for the Varsity and surrounding businesses.

    “Next door right now, it’s kind of dark, kind of cluttered,” Fenske said. “We want to present a real warm, welcome environment around the Varsity. This will help.”

    But members of the Historical Resources Management Commission and other speakers stressed the need to keep the tankhouse where it belongs — near the Hunt-Boyer Mansion, to which it historically provided water.

    “The question isn’t what we should do with the tankhouse, it’s what should we do with the site,” former Mayor Ken Wagstaff said. “I think the council should be adverse to dividing the tankhouse and its mothership, so to speak.”

    Novakovic, exhibiting frustration, pointed out that the tankhouse had been neglected until now.

    “In 30 years, nobody put a penny into it,” he said. “The reason I’m here tonight is because the City Council put out a serious request for proposals, and I took it seriously.”

    Note: Novakovic is right to say that the tankhouse has been terribly neglected. In some respects, it is in bad shape. However, a private group of Davis citizens has been working hard to make some repairs, fix leaks, etc. to the building. So it is inaccurate to say that ‘nobody put a penny into it.’

    Although the council did extend the exclusive negotiating agreement with Novakovic, it doesn’t mean that the proposed building has an automatic green light.

    “Our entry into an (exclusive negotiating agreement) should never have been interpreted as a commitment, as a done deal,” Councilman Don Saylor said. “It was a commitment to keep talking.”

    Councilman Stephen Souza, the only member to vote against the agreement, said for his part, he doesn’t think a three-story building belongs on that site.

    “I just don’t think it fits the block,” he said.

    Novakovic said he was prepared to whittle down his plans.

    But Souza also spoke against moving the tankhouse, saying it would be awkward to put it on the west side of the property, and divisive to move it to somewhere like Central Park.

    Mayor Sue Greenwald defended the project, especially in light of the council’s original exclusive negotiating agreement, and warned against appearing unfriendly to business.

    “Our image is business unfriendly,” she said. “If we pull the rug out from under these guys after they invested half a million in cash and sweat equity (into the Varsity) our reputation will be abysmal.”

  92. Rich Rifkin

    “His proposal was rejected by the city council, because it would have resulted in the demolition of the tankhouse.”

    I think that is wrong. It was not rejected by the city council. I think a decision was simply put off.

    The following comes from a Davis Enterprise story from last July 26:

    Novakovic, Fenske and others Tuesday night said a cafe in place of the tankhouse would revitalize that block and increase business for the Varsity and surrounding businesses.

    “Next door right now, it’s kind of dark, kind of cluttered,” Fenske said. “We want to present a real warm, welcome environment around the Varsity. This will help.”

    But members of the Historical Resources Management Commission and other speakers stressed the need to keep the tankhouse where it belongs — near the Hunt-Boyer Mansion, to which it historically provided water.

    “The question isn’t what we should do with the tankhouse, it’s what should we do with the site,” former Mayor Ken Wagstaff said. “I think the council should be adverse to dividing the tankhouse and its mothership, so to speak.”

    Novakovic, exhibiting frustration, pointed out that the tankhouse had been neglected until now.

    “In 30 years, nobody put a penny into it,” he said. “The reason I’m here tonight is because the City Council put out a serious request for proposals, and I took it seriously.”

    Note: Novakovic is right to say that the tankhouse has been terribly neglected. In some respects, it is in bad shape. However, a private group of Davis citizens has been working hard to make some repairs, fix leaks, etc. to the building. So it is inaccurate to say that ‘nobody put a penny into it.’

    Although the council did extend the exclusive negotiating agreement with Novakovic, it doesn’t mean that the proposed building has an automatic green light.

    “Our entry into an (exclusive negotiating agreement) should never have been interpreted as a commitment, as a done deal,” Councilman Don Saylor said. “It was a commitment to keep talking.”

    Councilman Stephen Souza, the only member to vote against the agreement, said for his part, he doesn’t think a three-story building belongs on that site.

    “I just don’t think it fits the block,” he said.

    Novakovic said he was prepared to whittle down his plans.

    But Souza also spoke against moving the tankhouse, saying it would be awkward to put it on the west side of the property, and divisive to move it to somewhere like Central Park.

    Mayor Sue Greenwald defended the project, especially in light of the council’s original exclusive negotiating agreement, and warned against appearing unfriendly to business.

    “Our image is business unfriendly,” she said. “If we pull the rug out from under these guys after they invested half a million in cash and sweat equity (into the Varsity) our reputation will be abysmal.”

  93. Anonymous

    The reporters don’t write the headlines and have no say in them, the way papers operate traditionally. It’s the copy editors, and readers and reporters alike have been damning them seven days a week since before hell was invented. Copy editors parse a story once or twice with their eyes on the punctuation, spelling and the efficiency of the phrasing, they try to come up with a pun and then they write the headline and move on to the next story. If the story is about an event, they weren’t there, and if it’s about people, they didn’t talk to them. You’d accomplish about the same public good if you were to “raise the consciousness” of a type setter on the topic of this story.

  94. Anonymous

    The reporters don’t write the headlines and have no say in them, the way papers operate traditionally. It’s the copy editors, and readers and reporters alike have been damning them seven days a week since before hell was invented. Copy editors parse a story once or twice with their eyes on the punctuation, spelling and the efficiency of the phrasing, they try to come up with a pun and then they write the headline and move on to the next story. If the story is about an event, they weren’t there, and if it’s about people, they didn’t talk to them. You’d accomplish about the same public good if you were to “raise the consciousness” of a type setter on the topic of this story.

  95. Anonymous

    The reporters don’t write the headlines and have no say in them, the way papers operate traditionally. It’s the copy editors, and readers and reporters alike have been damning them seven days a week since before hell was invented. Copy editors parse a story once or twice with their eyes on the punctuation, spelling and the efficiency of the phrasing, they try to come up with a pun and then they write the headline and move on to the next story. If the story is about an event, they weren’t there, and if it’s about people, they didn’t talk to them. You’d accomplish about the same public good if you were to “raise the consciousness” of a type setter on the topic of this story.

  96. Anonymous

    The reporters don’t write the headlines and have no say in them, the way papers operate traditionally. It’s the copy editors, and readers and reporters alike have been damning them seven days a week since before hell was invented. Copy editors parse a story once or twice with their eyes on the punctuation, spelling and the efficiency of the phrasing, they try to come up with a pun and then they write the headline and move on to the next story. If the story is about an event, they weren’t there, and if it’s about people, they didn’t talk to them. You’d accomplish about the same public good if you were to “raise the consciousness” of a type setter on the topic of this story.

  97. 無名 - wu ming

    thanks for the information on the tankhouse, rich. has there been any talk of using the tankhouse itself as a coffeehouse (or at least as a shelter for the baristas and equipment) as was done when that corner was an outdoor cafe in the late 80s/early 90s (IIRC)? it’s such a nice space, and worked exceptionally well until the owner got bnusted for something and the cafe shut down. best place in davis to hang out and listen to music on a summer’s night, IMO, i was sad to see it go.

  98. 無名 - wu ming

    thanks for the information on the tankhouse, rich. has there been any talk of using the tankhouse itself as a coffeehouse (or at least as a shelter for the baristas and equipment) as was done when that corner was an outdoor cafe in the late 80s/early 90s (IIRC)? it’s such a nice space, and worked exceptionally well until the owner got bnusted for something and the cafe shut down. best place in davis to hang out and listen to music on a summer’s night, IMO, i was sad to see it go.

  99. 無名 - wu ming

    thanks for the information on the tankhouse, rich. has there been any talk of using the tankhouse itself as a coffeehouse (or at least as a shelter for the baristas and equipment) as was done when that corner was an outdoor cafe in the late 80s/early 90s (IIRC)? it’s such a nice space, and worked exceptionally well until the owner got bnusted for something and the cafe shut down. best place in davis to hang out and listen to music on a summer’s night, IMO, i was sad to see it go.

  100. 無名 - wu ming

    thanks for the information on the tankhouse, rich. has there been any talk of using the tankhouse itself as a coffeehouse (or at least as a shelter for the baristas and equipment) as was done when that corner was an outdoor cafe in the late 80s/early 90s (IIRC)? it’s such a nice space, and worked exceptionally well until the owner got bnusted for something and the cafe shut down. best place in davis to hang out and listen to music on a summer’s night, IMO, i was sad to see it go.

  101. Rich Rifkin

    Wu, using the tankhouse for the cafe is not Novakovic’s plan — his calls for a new 3 story building there. However, I believe others have tried and want to do just what you suggest. I don’t know where any such plans for that kind of usage stand.

    One thing I should add is that if the tankhouse is not going to be demolished, it needs to be rehabbed. It is, as many have said, in need of some repairs. The city has owned it for many years and has thus far neglected to do its proper maintenance. Once fixed up, the tankhouse needs to be open to the public in some way, so that if it is preserved as a part of our history and an integral part of the Hunt-Boyer property, the people of Davis have to be able to experience it. I would guess that 90-95% of our town has no idea that it even exists or what it’s function was — hence, the common misunderstanding that it was a pumphouse. I don’t see the point in preserving historical sites and then keeping them off-limits to the people. But that is essentially what is going on now, and so no wonder why so few people give a damn about this aspect of our history — they don’t know about it.

  102. Rich Rifkin

    Wu, using the tankhouse for the cafe is not Novakovic’s plan — his calls for a new 3 story building there. However, I believe others have tried and want to do just what you suggest. I don’t know where any such plans for that kind of usage stand.

    One thing I should add is that if the tankhouse is not going to be demolished, it needs to be rehabbed. It is, as many have said, in need of some repairs. The city has owned it for many years and has thus far neglected to do its proper maintenance. Once fixed up, the tankhouse needs to be open to the public in some way, so that if it is preserved as a part of our history and an integral part of the Hunt-Boyer property, the people of Davis have to be able to experience it. I would guess that 90-95% of our town has no idea that it even exists or what it’s function was — hence, the common misunderstanding that it was a pumphouse. I don’t see the point in preserving historical sites and then keeping them off-limits to the people. But that is essentially what is going on now, and so no wonder why so few people give a damn about this aspect of our history — they don’t know about it.

  103. Rich Rifkin

    Wu, using the tankhouse for the cafe is not Novakovic’s plan — his calls for a new 3 story building there. However, I believe others have tried and want to do just what you suggest. I don’t know where any such plans for that kind of usage stand.

    One thing I should add is that if the tankhouse is not going to be demolished, it needs to be rehabbed. It is, as many have said, in need of some repairs. The city has owned it for many years and has thus far neglected to do its proper maintenance. Once fixed up, the tankhouse needs to be open to the public in some way, so that if it is preserved as a part of our history and an integral part of the Hunt-Boyer property, the people of Davis have to be able to experience it. I would guess that 90-95% of our town has no idea that it even exists or what it’s function was — hence, the common misunderstanding that it was a pumphouse. I don’t see the point in preserving historical sites and then keeping them off-limits to the people. But that is essentially what is going on now, and so no wonder why so few people give a damn about this aspect of our history — they don’t know about it.

  104. Rich Rifkin

    Wu, using the tankhouse for the cafe is not Novakovic’s plan — his calls for a new 3 story building there. However, I believe others have tried and want to do just what you suggest. I don’t know where any such plans for that kind of usage stand.

    One thing I should add is that if the tankhouse is not going to be demolished, it needs to be rehabbed. It is, as many have said, in need of some repairs. The city has owned it for many years and has thus far neglected to do its proper maintenance. Once fixed up, the tankhouse needs to be open to the public in some way, so that if it is preserved as a part of our history and an integral part of the Hunt-Boyer property, the people of Davis have to be able to experience it. I would guess that 90-95% of our town has no idea that it even exists or what it’s function was — hence, the common misunderstanding that it was a pumphouse. I don’t see the point in preserving historical sites and then keeping them off-limits to the people. But that is essentially what is going on now, and so no wonder why so few people give a damn about this aspect of our history — they don’t know about it.

  105. Don Shor

    Outdoor dining is not really a year-around option here. So it is a good seasonal adjunct to a food service business, but it is hard to make a living just on that. It is hard to see how the tankhouse, even rehabbed, would enhance business and ambience in the downtown anywhere near as much as a cafe on that site would.
    This looks like another conflict between history and commerce.

  106. Don Shor

    Outdoor dining is not really a year-around option here. So it is a good seasonal adjunct to a food service business, but it is hard to make a living just on that. It is hard to see how the tankhouse, even rehabbed, would enhance business and ambience in the downtown anywhere near as much as a cafe on that site would.
    This looks like another conflict between history and commerce.

  107. Don Shor

    Outdoor dining is not really a year-around option here. So it is a good seasonal adjunct to a food service business, but it is hard to make a living just on that. It is hard to see how the tankhouse, even rehabbed, would enhance business and ambience in the downtown anywhere near as much as a cafe on that site would.
    This looks like another conflict between history and commerce.

  108. Don Shor

    Outdoor dining is not really a year-around option here. So it is a good seasonal adjunct to a food service business, but it is hard to make a living just on that. It is hard to see how the tankhouse, even rehabbed, would enhance business and ambience in the downtown anywhere near as much as a cafe on that site would.
    This looks like another conflict between history and commerce.

  109. 無名 - wu ming

    a fair point, don. and unlike the anderson bank issue, the choice really looks to be that binary in the tankhouse case (although it would be nice if someone can find a way to move it and dodge the decision).

  110. 無名 - wu ming

    a fair point, don. and unlike the anderson bank issue, the choice really looks to be that binary in the tankhouse case (although it would be nice if someone can find a way to move it and dodge the decision).

  111. 無名 - wu ming

    a fair point, don. and unlike the anderson bank issue, the choice really looks to be that binary in the tankhouse case (although it would be nice if someone can find a way to move it and dodge the decision).

  112. 無名 - wu ming

    a fair point, don. and unlike the anderson bank issue, the choice really looks to be that binary in the tankhouse case (although it would be nice if someone can find a way to move it and dodge the decision).

  113. anonymous

    It is a case by case decision. Replacing the Tankhouse with a building housing a cafe will enhance that location and the success of the Varsity Theater. I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty. Are outhouses next on the list for preservation as monuments to Davis’ plumbing history?

  114. anonymous

    It is a case by case decision. Replacing the Tankhouse with a building housing a cafe will enhance that location and the success of the Varsity Theater. I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty. Are outhouses next on the list for preservation as monuments to Davis’ plumbing history?

  115. anonymous

    It is a case by case decision. Replacing the Tankhouse with a building housing a cafe will enhance that location and the success of the Varsity Theater. I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty. Are outhouses next on the list for preservation as monuments to Davis’ plumbing history?

  116. anonymous

    It is a case by case decision. Replacing the Tankhouse with a building housing a cafe will enhance that location and the success of the Varsity Theater. I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty. Are outhouses next on the list for preservation as monuments to Davis’ plumbing history?

  117. Rich Rifkin

    “I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty.”

    Beauty, as the saying goes, is in the eye of the beholder. But I think it’s quite obvious that the local tankhouses, all of which have the same design, are handsome structures. However, because the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is stuck behind the orange grove, it’s hard to really see it in full. (Before Mansion Square was built, the tankhouse was located behind the Hunt-Boyer home and it could be seen in full from E Street.)

    If you go out to Tremont Road — for those of you new to Davis, there used to be a village called “Tremont” about 4-5 miles due south of South Davis; the Tremont Presbyterian Church and Tremont Cemetary are still there — you can see a few extant tankhouses next to old farmhouses. Those will give you a better idea of tankhouse architecture. Elsewhere in Yolo County, I know of a couple of tankhouses which have been converted into lofts. I haven’t been inside them, but that seems like a good use, if they’re insulated properly.

  118. Rich Rifkin

    “I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty.”

    Beauty, as the saying goes, is in the eye of the beholder. But I think it’s quite obvious that the local tankhouses, all of which have the same design, are handsome structures. However, because the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is stuck behind the orange grove, it’s hard to really see it in full. (Before Mansion Square was built, the tankhouse was located behind the Hunt-Boyer home and it could be seen in full from E Street.)

    If you go out to Tremont Road — for those of you new to Davis, there used to be a village called “Tremont” about 4-5 miles due south of South Davis; the Tremont Presbyterian Church and Tremont Cemetary are still there — you can see a few extant tankhouses next to old farmhouses. Those will give you a better idea of tankhouse architecture. Elsewhere in Yolo County, I know of a couple of tankhouses which have been converted into lofts. I haven’t been inside them, but that seems like a good use, if they’re insulated properly.

  119. Rich Rifkin

    “I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty.”

    Beauty, as the saying goes, is in the eye of the beholder. But I think it’s quite obvious that the local tankhouses, all of which have the same design, are handsome structures. However, because the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is stuck behind the orange grove, it’s hard to really see it in full. (Before Mansion Square was built, the tankhouse was located behind the Hunt-Boyer home and it could be seen in full from E Street.)

    If you go out to Tremont Road — for those of you new to Davis, there used to be a village called “Tremont” about 4-5 miles due south of South Davis; the Tremont Presbyterian Church and Tremont Cemetary are still there — you can see a few extant tankhouses next to old farmhouses. Those will give you a better idea of tankhouse architecture. Elsewhere in Yolo County, I know of a couple of tankhouses which have been converted into lofts. I haven’t been inside them, but that seems like a good use, if they’re insulated properly.

  120. Rich Rifkin

    “I don’t hear anyone singing the praises of the Tankhouse’s architectural interest or beauty.”

    Beauty, as the saying goes, is in the eye of the beholder. But I think it’s quite obvious that the local tankhouses, all of which have the same design, are handsome structures. However, because the Hunt-Boyer tankhouse is stuck behind the orange grove, it’s hard to really see it in full. (Before Mansion Square was built, the tankhouse was located behind the Hunt-Boyer home and it could be seen in full from E Street.)

    If you go out to Tremont Road — for those of you new to Davis, there used to be a village called “Tremont” about 4-5 miles due south of South Davis; the Tremont Presbyterian Church and Tremont Cemetary are still there — you can see a few extant tankhouses next to old farmhouses. Those will give you a better idea of tankhouse architecture. Elsewhere in Yolo County, I know of a couple of tankhouses which have been converted into lofts. I haven’t been inside them, but that seems like a good use, if they’re insulated properly.

  121. davisite

    Anonymous said:

    “A poor headline? Yes, but David your assumption that Debbie Davis is a fan of Jim Kidd’s is way, way off the mark.”

    Her headline promotes a political position and is using Kidd’s issue as a vehicle. Not being a Kidd fan is irrelevant. Debbie Davis is known to be the author of Enterprise newsstory titles that set the political tone of her reporter’s articles.

  122. davisite

    Anonymous said:

    “A poor headline? Yes, but David your assumption that Debbie Davis is a fan of Jim Kidd’s is way, way off the mark.”

    Her headline promotes a political position and is using Kidd’s issue as a vehicle. Not being a Kidd fan is irrelevant. Debbie Davis is known to be the author of Enterprise newsstory titles that set the political tone of her reporter’s articles.

  123. davisite

    Anonymous said:

    “A poor headline? Yes, but David your assumption that Debbie Davis is a fan of Jim Kidd’s is way, way off the mark.”

    Her headline promotes a political position and is using Kidd’s issue as a vehicle. Not being a Kidd fan is irrelevant. Debbie Davis is known to be the author of Enterprise newsstory titles that set the political tone of her reporter’s articles.

  124. davisite

    Anonymous said:

    “A poor headline? Yes, but David your assumption that Debbie Davis is a fan of Jim Kidd’s is way, way off the mark.”

    Her headline promotes a political position and is using Kidd’s issue as a vehicle. Not being a Kidd fan is irrelevant. Debbie Davis is known to be the author of Enterprise newsstory titles that set the political tone of her reporter’s articles.

  125. Anonymous

    Re: The proposal to clear out the Hunt-Boyer Mansion orange trees and remove the tank house in order to build a 3 or 4 story private office building between two city owned landmarks (0 feet from the theatre, 7 ft from the Mansion, and right up to edge of the sidewalk in front), on publicly owned property. Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR; the draft will probably be out for review & comments sometime in July, and the Hist. Commission will be the first to review it; a ruling months ago by that commission that removing the tank house would have a significant impact on the Landmark Mansion triggered the EIR process.
    As to whether the tank house has any significance in itself, take a look at the entries for tank house and Hunt-
    Boyer Mansion on the DavisWiki, and a piece on Davis tankhouses on davishistoricalsociety.org.Davis had scads of tank houses, but only two are left and one is recent (1920’s), and altered, but still a designated resource. The Mansion tank house was built before 1885 or so, with fancy trimmings to match the house, and could be the last town or residential tank house from that era left intact in Yolo County. As for the patio area around it being closed off to the public, the city neglected the tank house for so long that it was formally “condemned for occupancy” in 2000, so they locked the gates to keep the public away from it.

  126. Anonymous

    Re: The proposal to clear out the Hunt-Boyer Mansion orange trees and remove the tank house in order to build a 3 or 4 story private office building between two city owned landmarks (0 feet from the theatre, 7 ft from the Mansion, and right up to edge of the sidewalk in front), on publicly owned property. Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR; the draft will probably be out for review & comments sometime in July, and the Hist. Commission will be the first to review it; a ruling months ago by that commission that removing the tank house would have a significant impact on the Landmark Mansion triggered the EIR process.
    As to whether the tank house has any significance in itself, take a look at the entries for tank house and Hunt-
    Boyer Mansion on the DavisWiki, and a piece on Davis tankhouses on davishistoricalsociety.org.Davis had scads of tank houses, but only two are left and one is recent (1920’s), and altered, but still a designated resource. The Mansion tank house was built before 1885 or so, with fancy trimmings to match the house, and could be the last town or residential tank house from that era left intact in Yolo County. As for the patio area around it being closed off to the public, the city neglected the tank house for so long that it was formally “condemned for occupancy” in 2000, so they locked the gates to keep the public away from it.

  127. Anonymous

    Re: The proposal to clear out the Hunt-Boyer Mansion orange trees and remove the tank house in order to build a 3 or 4 story private office building between two city owned landmarks (0 feet from the theatre, 7 ft from the Mansion, and right up to edge of the sidewalk in front), on publicly owned property. Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR; the draft will probably be out for review & comments sometime in July, and the Hist. Commission will be the first to review it; a ruling months ago by that commission that removing the tank house would have a significant impact on the Landmark Mansion triggered the EIR process.
    As to whether the tank house has any significance in itself, take a look at the entries for tank house and Hunt-
    Boyer Mansion on the DavisWiki, and a piece on Davis tankhouses on davishistoricalsociety.org.Davis had scads of tank houses, but only two are left and one is recent (1920’s), and altered, but still a designated resource. The Mansion tank house was built before 1885 or so, with fancy trimmings to match the house, and could be the last town or residential tank house from that era left intact in Yolo County. As for the patio area around it being closed off to the public, the city neglected the tank house for so long that it was formally “condemned for occupancy” in 2000, so they locked the gates to keep the public away from it.

  128. Anonymous

    Re: The proposal to clear out the Hunt-Boyer Mansion orange trees and remove the tank house in order to build a 3 or 4 story private office building between two city owned landmarks (0 feet from the theatre, 7 ft from the Mansion, and right up to edge of the sidewalk in front), on publicly owned property. Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR; the draft will probably be out for review & comments sometime in July, and the Hist. Commission will be the first to review it; a ruling months ago by that commission that removing the tank house would have a significant impact on the Landmark Mansion triggered the EIR process.
    As to whether the tank house has any significance in itself, take a look at the entries for tank house and Hunt-
    Boyer Mansion on the DavisWiki, and a piece on Davis tankhouses on davishistoricalsociety.org.Davis had scads of tank houses, but only two are left and one is recent (1920’s), and altered, but still a designated resource. The Mansion tank house was built before 1885 or so, with fancy trimmings to match the house, and could be the last town or residential tank house from that era left intact in Yolo County. As for the patio area around it being closed off to the public, the city neglected the tank house for so long that it was formally “condemned for occupancy” in 2000, so they locked the gates to keep the public away from it.

  129. The Ghost of Sam DeMasi

    I heard that Sinisa and John got shafted by council majority because they supported Sue during her city council campaign run. My rumor-mill also confirms that Saylor went up to them after the meeting to say (in so many words) “I like the plan, I just don’t want you doing it.” Good times.

  130. The Ghost of Sam DeMasi

    I heard that Sinisa and John got shafted by council majority because they supported Sue during her city council campaign run. My rumor-mill also confirms that Saylor went up to them after the meeting to say (in so many words) “I like the plan, I just don’t want you doing it.” Good times.

  131. The Ghost of Sam DeMasi

    I heard that Sinisa and John got shafted by council majority because they supported Sue during her city council campaign run. My rumor-mill also confirms that Saylor went up to them after the meeting to say (in so many words) “I like the plan, I just don’t want you doing it.” Good times.

  132. The Ghost of Sam DeMasi

    I heard that Sinisa and John got shafted by council majority because they supported Sue during her city council campaign run. My rumor-mill also confirms that Saylor went up to them after the meeting to say (in so many words) “I like the plan, I just don’t want you doing it.” Good times.

  133. Rich Rifkin

    “Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR”

    That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.

  134. Rich Rifkin

    “Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR”

    That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.

  135. Rich Rifkin

    “Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR”

    That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.

  136. Rich Rifkin

    “Amazing: Rifkin, who is a member of the Historical Commission, seems to be unaware that the office building proposal, far from being decided, is the subject of an EIR”

    That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.

  137. Anonymous

    “That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.”

    Wrong. It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005; although the plans were labeled “conceptual” they were quite detailed, including a massive architectural model of the proposed building. A historic consultant’s report & EIR initial study were also done. The HRMC determined on the basis of those hearings that the impact of the project would probably be (very) significant, and that therefore an EIR was required by CEQA. The Council concurred in Feb. 2006, initiating the EIR process that is underway, with the draft EIR document due out this July. Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal. As usual, the EIR will also consider alternative projects such as doing something with the tankhouse where it is, and the standard “No Project” alternative.

  138. Anonymous

    “That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.”

    Wrong. It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005; although the plans were labeled “conceptual” they were quite detailed, including a massive architectural model of the proposed building. A historic consultant’s report & EIR initial study were also done. The HRMC determined on the basis of those hearings that the impact of the project would probably be (very) significant, and that therefore an EIR was required by CEQA. The Council concurred in Feb. 2006, initiating the EIR process that is underway, with the draft EIR document due out this July. Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal. As usual, the EIR will also consider alternative projects such as doing something with the tankhouse where it is, and the standard “No Project” alternative.

  139. Anonymous

    “That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.”

    Wrong. It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005; although the plans were labeled “conceptual” they were quite detailed, including a massive architectural model of the proposed building. A historic consultant’s report & EIR initial study were also done. The HRMC determined on the basis of those hearings that the impact of the project would probably be (very) significant, and that therefore an EIR was required by CEQA. The Council concurred in Feb. 2006, initiating the EIR process that is underway, with the draft EIR document due out this July. Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal. As usual, the EIR will also consider alternative projects such as doing something with the tankhouse where it is, and the standard “No Project” alternative.

  140. Anonymous

    “That’s the Ogrydziak-designed building that I spoke of earlier in this thread. I know all about it. However, it has never come before the HRMC.”

    Wrong. It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005; although the plans were labeled “conceptual” they were quite detailed, including a massive architectural model of the proposed building. A historic consultant’s report & EIR initial study were also done. The HRMC determined on the basis of those hearings that the impact of the project would probably be (very) significant, and that therefore an EIR was required by CEQA. The Council concurred in Feb. 2006, initiating the EIR process that is underway, with the draft EIR document due out this July. Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal. As usual, the EIR will also consider alternative projects such as doing something with the tankhouse where it is, and the standard “No Project” alternative.

  141. Rich Rifkin

    It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005… Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal.

    Yes, if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.

  142. Rich Rifkin

    It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005… Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal.

    Yes, if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.

  143. Rich Rifkin

    It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005… Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal.

    Yes, if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.

  144. Rich Rifkin

    It was before the HRMC in July & August 2005… Rifkin seems unaware of this EIR process, which is specifically to address the office building project proposal.

    Yes, if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.

  145. Anonymous

    “if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.”

    Sinisa’s project, designed by Maria O, is exactly what is the subject of the EIR, which the HRMC decided was required in Aug. 2005.

    The Council then initiated the EIR process in Feb 2006, while also extending the exclusive negotiating agreement with Sinisa on the project, while the EIR is in progress, because Sinisa & the city are splitting the costs of the EIR.

    And of course it hasn’t been before HRMC since the Feb 2006 Council meeting: City Staff have been writing the Draft EIR, so there haven’t been any more hearings to have on it until the EIR is written.

    The draft EIR is expected to be released for the 45 day comment period in July, and then the HRMC will have a hearing during that period to comment on it, probably at the July HRMC meeting.

    Then they’ll write the Final EIR, there will be another round of hearings, ending finally with a Council hearing to decide what to do: Sinisa’s project, an alternate project, or “No Project”. (Same process as just got through with the Anderson Building, and takes just about as long.)

    The Initial Study & historic consultant’s report (the early parts of the EIR) are available for the asking from city staff. (and minutes, and probably HRMC staff reports and all that).

    The Anderson Bldg EIR’s Cummulative Historic Resources Impact Report will also be part of the Tank House EIR; it was written to cover both plus the B Street EIR I think.

    Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.

  146. Anonymous

    “if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.”

    Sinisa’s project, designed by Maria O, is exactly what is the subject of the EIR, which the HRMC decided was required in Aug. 2005.

    The Council then initiated the EIR process in Feb 2006, while also extending the exclusive negotiating agreement with Sinisa on the project, while the EIR is in progress, because Sinisa & the city are splitting the costs of the EIR.

    And of course it hasn’t been before HRMC since the Feb 2006 Council meeting: City Staff have been writing the Draft EIR, so there haven’t been any more hearings to have on it until the EIR is written.

    The draft EIR is expected to be released for the 45 day comment period in July, and then the HRMC will have a hearing during that period to comment on it, probably at the July HRMC meeting.

    Then they’ll write the Final EIR, there will be another round of hearings, ending finally with a Council hearing to decide what to do: Sinisa’s project, an alternate project, or “No Project”. (Same process as just got through with the Anderson Building, and takes just about as long.)

    The Initial Study & historic consultant’s report (the early parts of the EIR) are available for the asking from city staff. (and minutes, and probably HRMC staff reports and all that).

    The Anderson Bldg EIR’s Cummulative Historic Resources Impact Report will also be part of the Tank House EIR; it was written to cover both plus the B Street EIR I think.

    Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.

  147. Anonymous

    “if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.”

    Sinisa’s project, designed by Maria O, is exactly what is the subject of the EIR, which the HRMC decided was required in Aug. 2005.

    The Council then initiated the EIR process in Feb 2006, while also extending the exclusive negotiating agreement with Sinisa on the project, while the EIR is in progress, because Sinisa & the city are splitting the costs of the EIR.

    And of course it hasn’t been before HRMC since the Feb 2006 Council meeting: City Staff have been writing the Draft EIR, so there haven’t been any more hearings to have on it until the EIR is written.

    The draft EIR is expected to be released for the 45 day comment period in July, and then the HRMC will have a hearing during that period to comment on it, probably at the July HRMC meeting.

    Then they’ll write the Final EIR, there will be another round of hearings, ending finally with a Council hearing to decide what to do: Sinisa’s project, an alternate project, or “No Project”. (Same process as just got through with the Anderson Building, and takes just about as long.)

    The Initial Study & historic consultant’s report (the early parts of the EIR) are available for the asking from city staff. (and minutes, and probably HRMC staff reports and all that).

    The Anderson Bldg EIR’s Cummulative Historic Resources Impact Report will also be part of the Tank House EIR; it was written to cover both plus the B Street EIR I think.

    Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.

  148. Anonymous

    “if it’s not Maria O’s proposal, which she brought to the city council last year, I am unaware of what you’re talking about. That must have been before I joined the HRMC. Nothing’s come to our commission like that, since I joined.”

    Sinisa’s project, designed by Maria O, is exactly what is the subject of the EIR, which the HRMC decided was required in Aug. 2005.

    The Council then initiated the EIR process in Feb 2006, while also extending the exclusive negotiating agreement with Sinisa on the project, while the EIR is in progress, because Sinisa & the city are splitting the costs of the EIR.

    And of course it hasn’t been before HRMC since the Feb 2006 Council meeting: City Staff have been writing the Draft EIR, so there haven’t been any more hearings to have on it until the EIR is written.

    The draft EIR is expected to be released for the 45 day comment period in July, and then the HRMC will have a hearing during that period to comment on it, probably at the July HRMC meeting.

    Then they’ll write the Final EIR, there will be another round of hearings, ending finally with a Council hearing to decide what to do: Sinisa’s project, an alternate project, or “No Project”. (Same process as just got through with the Anderson Building, and takes just about as long.)

    The Initial Study & historic consultant’s report (the early parts of the EIR) are available for the asking from city staff. (and minutes, and probably HRMC staff reports and all that).

    The Anderson Bldg EIR’s Cummulative Historic Resources Impact Report will also be part of the Tank House EIR; it was written to cover both plus the B Street EIR I think.

    Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.

  149. Rich Rifkin

    “Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.”

    Speaking for myself, I attended 3 HRMC meetings and 3 Tree Commission meetings in the months before I applied to the HRMC. I had been asked to apply, and I wanted to see which one, if either, was a good fit for me. In part because I am very well versed in the history of Davis — more than anyone else on the HRMC — I felt like I could contribute, there. Much of our commission’s business is focused on our city’s hard history — that is, buildings — but I have been trying to promote a better understanding of Davis’s soft history, too.

  150. Rich Rifkin

    “Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.”

    Speaking for myself, I attended 3 HRMC meetings and 3 Tree Commission meetings in the months before I applied to the HRMC. I had been asked to apply, and I wanted to see which one, if either, was a good fit for me. In part because I am very well versed in the history of Davis — more than anyone else on the HRMC — I felt like I could contribute, there. Much of our commission’s business is focused on our city’s hard history — that is, buildings — but I have been trying to promote a better understanding of Davis’s soft history, too.

  151. Rich Rifkin

    “Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.”

    Speaking for myself, I attended 3 HRMC meetings and 3 Tree Commission meetings in the months before I applied to the HRMC. I had been asked to apply, and I wanted to see which one, if either, was a good fit for me. In part because I am very well versed in the history of Davis — more than anyone else on the HRMC — I felt like I could contribute, there. Much of our commission’s business is focused on our city’s hard history — that is, buildings — but I have been trying to promote a better understanding of Davis’s soft history, too.

  152. Rich Rifkin

    “Just out of curiosity, one wonders how many commissioners attend commission meetings before they’re appointed, if only to find out what their commission has been up to, and what’s in the pipeline.”

    Speaking for myself, I attended 3 HRMC meetings and 3 Tree Commission meetings in the months before I applied to the HRMC. I had been asked to apply, and I wanted to see which one, if either, was a good fit for me. In part because I am very well versed in the history of Davis — more than anyone else on the HRMC — I felt like I could contribute, there. Much of our commission’s business is focused on our city’s hard history — that is, buildings — but I have been trying to promote a better understanding of Davis’s soft history, too.

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