Commentary: Police Photography of Protesters Butts up Against the Line

Following up on last week’s report on UC Davis police taking photos of the protesters and also this blogger on public property outside of Chancellor Larry Vanderhoef’s university owned home, during a function that involved the university marching band as well as involved some of the very food service workers seeking university jobs with higher wages and benefits. I spoke to a number of individuals about the incident and a consensus view grew about the practice.

First I spoke to the area ACLU about the incident, and they said while it is not illegal for them to take photos of protesters, it also depends on what they intend to do with the photos and how they dispose of the photos. Regardless the ACLU intends to send a letter to the UC Davis Police as a means to communicate their discomfort with the overall practice.

I also spoke with the scene commander for the UC Davis Police. The first thing that she told me was that it was legal, that the police have as much right to take a picture of me, as I do of them. I told her that I understood from my discussions that it was perfectly legal for the police to do this and furthermore there is no expectation of privacy in public, but I said that does not necessarily make it the right thing to do. I explained to her that the police represent the lawful power of the government to use force in order to maintain order. It is one thing for the police in their official duties paid for by the state of California and the students at UC Davis, to arrest and photograph individuals participating in lawbreaking, it is another thing for them to merely take photos of people who are otherwise obeying the law. There is a strong differential between me photographing an event in an attempt to tell a story and the police doing so for other reasons.

There is a clear intimidation factor behind that approach. Some of the students at the time said that while there were not overt threats toward them, the implication was that they were being watched very closely.

The scene commander told me that given the history of these particular protesters that she made the call to have the officers under her command photograph them. I found that a very odd explanation. If anything, while some complained about noise and the banging on windows, this particular group of protesters has from what I’ve seen in several different events been extremely orderly and cooperative. When they have been arrested they have done so in a peaceful and organized manner. I do not see what photographing the protesters will aid in if they were to be arrested for failure to disperse or unlawful assembly. The police will either witness it or not.

I want to be clear that people who know this particular commander understand her to be a good and dedicated officer. However, given past activities by police with regards to protesters and the history of this country, I question the wisdom of photographing protesters.

From what I witnessed, there was not only an attempt to intimidate but a clear tension between those who were protesters and those who were attending the party and in charge of maintaining the peace. First, the protesters attempted to have one individual on each side of the chancellor’s house, distribute fliers. The reaction from the party-goers was overwhelmingly negative and at times outright rude and hostile. This was clearly not a group of persuadables most of whom were high administrators and community leaders.

Second, there were the actions of Dennis Shimek, Associate Vice Chancellor of Human Resources. Shimek’s actions were called into questions a week prior when he attempted to intimidate and got in the face of a student involved in negotiations. He continued his boorish behavior last week by intentionally walking through the marching protesters. Despite his assertions to the contrary, it was completely unnecessary. First, there was plenty of space to walk around the protesters, he certainly had no reason other than confrontation to walk through them. Second, as the pictures show, he went through looking for a fight. Third, it is not clear why he needed to go through to begin with, he went into an open green space lawn, turned around and came back. He was rude, belligerent, and in my opinion, clearly out to provoke something.

The actions of the police were more mixed. On the one hand, they did not get into a confrontation with the protesters and in fact did much to avoid a confrontation. On the other hand, it seemed more passive aggressive to be out taking photographs of otherwise law abiding citizens.

The scene commander informed me that no laws were broken on this occasion. When I asked what that meant for the photos, she was unsure. If a crime were committed, they were going to be downloaded onto a CD and booked as evidence. Other than a demonstration that the individuals were on the scene, I’m not sure what they would exactly prove. It is not like the individuals if they engaged in civil disobedience are going to deny they were there.

My opinion on this is pretty simple. First, if someone breaks the law, they ought to be arrested and pay the penalty for that crime. Civil disobedience is not performed with the expectation that the worthy cause negates the crime. Thoreau was perfectly willing to pay his price in jail for his failure to pay taxes. Second, the police represent the power of the government here. I have grown concerned that the UC Davis Police are acting on behest of the chancellor as a means to break and discourage the organizers rather than as a means to protect the peace.

As such, I think that photographing of protesters while legal represents an uncomfortable area in the law. It allows the police to attempt to intimidate rather than to enforce the law. It means that the government itself is watching one. And while there is no expectation of privacy, there should be an expectation that the government does not intrude in the lives of private citizens as long as they have not broken the law. This practice butts dangerously close to that principle.

To me this represents an erosion of civil liberties and the right to privacy from government interference in the face of 9/11 and the Patriot Act. Local law enforcement should act from one standpoint–to protect the peace and as long as that peace is protected, they should be passive rather than active participants.

We retain a right to speech, expression, and assembly in this country, rights that put even the notion of failure to disperse in question. Regardless, the question is whether the citizens of Davis wish to live in a community where the police are photographing individuals exercising their constitutional rights to free speech and free assembly? Because to be quite frank, it makes me nervous that people seem so willing to allow the encroachment on such rights and are so quick to excuse and explain it away.

I remain overall very troubled at the state of civil liberties in this country given the Bush administration’s strong encroachment. I see this as just another extension of the Bush mentality whereby law enforcement is using their powers to monitor and observe lawful activities of dissenters rather than on people actually involved in law breaking.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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100 thoughts on “Commentary: Police Photography of Protesters Butts up Against the Line”

  1. Anonymous

    These photographs are to identify the leadership and most active( Over time, the # of photographs in which you are identified?) in protest movements with the idea of profiling for investigation ,increased serveillance and harrassment. Is there any other reason that can be given for this? Anonymity offers a modicum of protection from abuse when power lies in the hands of those who are being challenged.

  2. Anonymous

    These photographs are to identify the leadership and most active( Over time, the # of photographs in which you are identified?) in protest movements with the idea of profiling for investigation ,increased serveillance and harrassment. Is there any other reason that can be given for this? Anonymity offers a modicum of protection from abuse when power lies in the hands of those who are being challenged.

  3. Anonymous

    These photographs are to identify the leadership and most active( Over time, the # of photographs in which you are identified?) in protest movements with the idea of profiling for investigation ,increased serveillance and harrassment. Is there any other reason that can be given for this? Anonymity offers a modicum of protection from abuse when power lies in the hands of those who are being challenged.

  4. Anonymous

    These photographs are to identify the leadership and most active( Over time, the # of photographs in which you are identified?) in protest movements with the idea of profiling for investigation ,increased serveillance and harrassment. Is there any other reason that can be given for this? Anonymity offers a modicum of protection from abuse when power lies in the hands of those who are being challenged.

  5. Anonymous

    While I can understand how some people might feel uncomfortable being photographed, they’re photos are already over the Internet, anyway (through facebook and this blog), so… the cat’s out of the bag. I don’t see how these photographs could be used to “harass” anymore than the photos taken and posted by the bloggers and protesters themselves could… if anyone was so inclined to harass.

  6. Anonymous

    While I can understand how some people might feel uncomfortable being photographed, they’re photos are already over the Internet, anyway (through facebook and this blog), so… the cat’s out of the bag. I don’t see how these photographs could be used to “harass” anymore than the photos taken and posted by the bloggers and protesters themselves could… if anyone was so inclined to harass.

  7. Anonymous

    While I can understand how some people might feel uncomfortable being photographed, they’re photos are already over the Internet, anyway (through facebook and this blog), so… the cat’s out of the bag. I don’t see how these photographs could be used to “harass” anymore than the photos taken and posted by the bloggers and protesters themselves could… if anyone was so inclined to harass.

  8. Anonymous

    While I can understand how some people might feel uncomfortable being photographed, they’re photos are already over the Internet, anyway (through facebook and this blog), so… the cat’s out of the bag. I don’t see how these photographs could be used to “harass” anymore than the photos taken and posted by the bloggers and protesters themselves could… if anyone was so inclined to harass.

  9. Anonymous

    Gathering and organizing the surveillance information is much easier when done by police themselves than searching and extracting it from internet websites… also.. it is crucial that the subject be fully aware that you are doing it to get the maximum intimidation effect.

  10. Anonymous

    Gathering and organizing the surveillance information is much easier when done by police themselves than searching and extracting it from internet websites… also.. it is crucial that the subject be fully aware that you are doing it to get the maximum intimidation effect.

  11. Anonymous

    Gathering and organizing the surveillance information is much easier when done by police themselves than searching and extracting it from internet websites… also.. it is crucial that the subject be fully aware that you are doing it to get the maximum intimidation effect.

  12. Anonymous

    Gathering and organizing the surveillance information is much easier when done by police themselves than searching and extracting it from internet websites… also.. it is crucial that the subject be fully aware that you are doing it to get the maximum intimidation effect.

  13. Anonymous

    I fail to understand the controversy.

    Cops were not beating the protesters with bats. They were not spraying them with Mace or fire hoses. They were taking pictures. If there were people protesting my house, I would do the same thing just in case one of them, acting under a very real “group mentality” became agitated and did something harmful.

    Groups of people, no matter how well-intentioned, are frightening and prone to stupidity.

    Josh

    Josh

  14. Anonymous

    I fail to understand the controversy.

    Cops were not beating the protesters with bats. They were not spraying them with Mace or fire hoses. They were taking pictures. If there were people protesting my house, I would do the same thing just in case one of them, acting under a very real “group mentality” became agitated and did something harmful.

    Groups of people, no matter how well-intentioned, are frightening and prone to stupidity.

    Josh

    Josh

  15. Anonymous

    I fail to understand the controversy.

    Cops were not beating the protesters with bats. They were not spraying them with Mace or fire hoses. They were taking pictures. If there were people protesting my house, I would do the same thing just in case one of them, acting under a very real “group mentality” became agitated and did something harmful.

    Groups of people, no matter how well-intentioned, are frightening and prone to stupidity.

    Josh

    Josh

  16. Anonymous

    I fail to understand the controversy.

    Cops were not beating the protesters with bats. They were not spraying them with Mace or fire hoses. They were taking pictures. If there were people protesting my house, I would do the same thing just in case one of them, acting under a very real “group mentality” became agitated and did something harmful.

    Groups of people, no matter how well-intentioned, are frightening and prone to stupidity.

    Josh

    Josh

  17. Richard

    it will be interesting to see if anonymous is correct, because that has frequently been the purpose when the police have engaged in this activity elsewhere

    there is a cynically humorous aspect to this, though, because movements like this frequently lack “leaders” and the extent of hierarchical structure as assumed by the police, so the attempt to engage in surveillance, identification, and, if necessary, harassment of them, is often fruitless, except for the unpleasant experiences of the people victimized by it

    the police, like the university administration, frequently work on the odd assumption that everything would be tranquil if not for a few “troublemakers”

    perhaps, this is an opportunity for some humorous street theatre, next time Vanderhoef starts to speak publicly on campus or around the city, about 10 people immediately stand up, pull out cameras, and start taking pictures of him

    a historical note: according to John Pamperin, there was a time when this was very serious, back in the late 1960s, during a Vietnam War protest march in Davis, the FBI stationed people at a location, 3rd and G, I think, to take pictures of the participants, when people believed that they really were at risk of losing their jobs for such activity

    before reaching the intersection the march was stopped, and the crowd was informed of the situation, and given the opportunity to depart, and one of the marchers, a UCD professor who had emigrated from Europe during the 30s or 40s, said something like, “Let’s go. I’ve been through more serious things than this.”

    –Richard Estes

  18. Richard

    it will be interesting to see if anonymous is correct, because that has frequently been the purpose when the police have engaged in this activity elsewhere

    there is a cynically humorous aspect to this, though, because movements like this frequently lack “leaders” and the extent of hierarchical structure as assumed by the police, so the attempt to engage in surveillance, identification, and, if necessary, harassment of them, is often fruitless, except for the unpleasant experiences of the people victimized by it

    the police, like the university administration, frequently work on the odd assumption that everything would be tranquil if not for a few “troublemakers”

    perhaps, this is an opportunity for some humorous street theatre, next time Vanderhoef starts to speak publicly on campus or around the city, about 10 people immediately stand up, pull out cameras, and start taking pictures of him

    a historical note: according to John Pamperin, there was a time when this was very serious, back in the late 1960s, during a Vietnam War protest march in Davis, the FBI stationed people at a location, 3rd and G, I think, to take pictures of the participants, when people believed that they really were at risk of losing their jobs for such activity

    before reaching the intersection the march was stopped, and the crowd was informed of the situation, and given the opportunity to depart, and one of the marchers, a UCD professor who had emigrated from Europe during the 30s or 40s, said something like, “Let’s go. I’ve been through more serious things than this.”

    –Richard Estes

  19. Richard

    it will be interesting to see if anonymous is correct, because that has frequently been the purpose when the police have engaged in this activity elsewhere

    there is a cynically humorous aspect to this, though, because movements like this frequently lack “leaders” and the extent of hierarchical structure as assumed by the police, so the attempt to engage in surveillance, identification, and, if necessary, harassment of them, is often fruitless, except for the unpleasant experiences of the people victimized by it

    the police, like the university administration, frequently work on the odd assumption that everything would be tranquil if not for a few “troublemakers”

    perhaps, this is an opportunity for some humorous street theatre, next time Vanderhoef starts to speak publicly on campus or around the city, about 10 people immediately stand up, pull out cameras, and start taking pictures of him

    a historical note: according to John Pamperin, there was a time when this was very serious, back in the late 1960s, during a Vietnam War protest march in Davis, the FBI stationed people at a location, 3rd and G, I think, to take pictures of the participants, when people believed that they really were at risk of losing their jobs for such activity

    before reaching the intersection the march was stopped, and the crowd was informed of the situation, and given the opportunity to depart, and one of the marchers, a UCD professor who had emigrated from Europe during the 30s or 40s, said something like, “Let’s go. I’ve been through more serious things than this.”

    –Richard Estes

  20. Richard

    it will be interesting to see if anonymous is correct, because that has frequently been the purpose when the police have engaged in this activity elsewhere

    there is a cynically humorous aspect to this, though, because movements like this frequently lack “leaders” and the extent of hierarchical structure as assumed by the police, so the attempt to engage in surveillance, identification, and, if necessary, harassment of them, is often fruitless, except for the unpleasant experiences of the people victimized by it

    the police, like the university administration, frequently work on the odd assumption that everything would be tranquil if not for a few “troublemakers”

    perhaps, this is an opportunity for some humorous street theatre, next time Vanderhoef starts to speak publicly on campus or around the city, about 10 people immediately stand up, pull out cameras, and start taking pictures of him

    a historical note: according to John Pamperin, there was a time when this was very serious, back in the late 1960s, during a Vietnam War protest march in Davis, the FBI stationed people at a location, 3rd and G, I think, to take pictures of the participants, when people believed that they really were at risk of losing their jobs for such activity

    before reaching the intersection the march was stopped, and the crowd was informed of the situation, and given the opportunity to depart, and one of the marchers, a UCD professor who had emigrated from Europe during the 30s or 40s, said something like, “Let’s go. I’ve been through more serious things than this.”

    –Richard Estes

  21. davisite

    I like the idea of street theater.. next protest event, everyone wear false beards, wigs, perhaps batman-like masks around the eyes like cartoon criminals..skip the ski-masks.. too threatening.

  22. davisite

    I like the idea of street theater.. next protest event, everyone wear false beards, wigs, perhaps batman-like masks around the eyes like cartoon criminals..skip the ski-masks.. too threatening.

  23. davisite

    I like the idea of street theater.. next protest event, everyone wear false beards, wigs, perhaps batman-like masks around the eyes like cartoon criminals..skip the ski-masks.. too threatening.

  24. davisite

    I like the idea of street theater.. next protest event, everyone wear false beards, wigs, perhaps batman-like masks around the eyes like cartoon criminals..skip the ski-masks.. too threatening.

  25. darnell

    Let’s see. I think I had my picture taken at least 6 times this weekend, some with my permission and most without. I had my picture taken at the post office for a passport, at the Davis High School graduation, at the bank ATM, at the gas station, the traffic light at Mace and Chiles, and probably many others that I am not aware of or can recall. I know that this is not the same as what you have a big problem with, but photos and videos are something that will be used even more as a tool by law enforcement and many other non-law enforcement entities. You may say that’s your point exactly, you don’t want that. I say with cell phone cameras, pocket cameras, video cameras, hidden cameras, and even satellites you had better get used to it. They’re used by both sides of the struggle with regularity.

    Those little point and shoot cameras the UCD Police were using made me chuckle when I saw them. If serious surveillance was the call then I pity the expertise of the department. Someone on your blog last week was comparing the Chancellors residence to the White House. If protesters were that close to the White House they would be in jail right now. Their facial recognition profile documented and background checks completed. If the ACLU didn’t have a tizzy fit when you talked to them, then I doubt the whole incident is a big deal. If there is a scab to pick the ACLU has the fingernail.

    What’s the matter? The UCD PD horning in on your job? You have given a face to the protesters more than anyone else to this point. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

  26. darnell

    Let’s see. I think I had my picture taken at least 6 times this weekend, some with my permission and most without. I had my picture taken at the post office for a passport, at the Davis High School graduation, at the bank ATM, at the gas station, the traffic light at Mace and Chiles, and probably many others that I am not aware of or can recall. I know that this is not the same as what you have a big problem with, but photos and videos are something that will be used even more as a tool by law enforcement and many other non-law enforcement entities. You may say that’s your point exactly, you don’t want that. I say with cell phone cameras, pocket cameras, video cameras, hidden cameras, and even satellites you had better get used to it. They’re used by both sides of the struggle with regularity.

    Those little point and shoot cameras the UCD Police were using made me chuckle when I saw them. If serious surveillance was the call then I pity the expertise of the department. Someone on your blog last week was comparing the Chancellors residence to the White House. If protesters were that close to the White House they would be in jail right now. Their facial recognition profile documented and background checks completed. If the ACLU didn’t have a tizzy fit when you talked to them, then I doubt the whole incident is a big deal. If there is a scab to pick the ACLU has the fingernail.

    What’s the matter? The UCD PD horning in on your job? You have given a face to the protesters more than anyone else to this point. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

  27. darnell

    Let’s see. I think I had my picture taken at least 6 times this weekend, some with my permission and most without. I had my picture taken at the post office for a passport, at the Davis High School graduation, at the bank ATM, at the gas station, the traffic light at Mace and Chiles, and probably many others that I am not aware of or can recall. I know that this is not the same as what you have a big problem with, but photos and videos are something that will be used even more as a tool by law enforcement and many other non-law enforcement entities. You may say that’s your point exactly, you don’t want that. I say with cell phone cameras, pocket cameras, video cameras, hidden cameras, and even satellites you had better get used to it. They’re used by both sides of the struggle with regularity.

    Those little point and shoot cameras the UCD Police were using made me chuckle when I saw them. If serious surveillance was the call then I pity the expertise of the department. Someone on your blog last week was comparing the Chancellors residence to the White House. If protesters were that close to the White House they would be in jail right now. Their facial recognition profile documented and background checks completed. If the ACLU didn’t have a tizzy fit when you talked to them, then I doubt the whole incident is a big deal. If there is a scab to pick the ACLU has the fingernail.

    What’s the matter? The UCD PD horning in on your job? You have given a face to the protesters more than anyone else to this point. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

  28. darnell

    Let’s see. I think I had my picture taken at least 6 times this weekend, some with my permission and most without. I had my picture taken at the post office for a passport, at the Davis High School graduation, at the bank ATM, at the gas station, the traffic light at Mace and Chiles, and probably many others that I am not aware of or can recall. I know that this is not the same as what you have a big problem with, but photos and videos are something that will be used even more as a tool by law enforcement and many other non-law enforcement entities. You may say that’s your point exactly, you don’t want that. I say with cell phone cameras, pocket cameras, video cameras, hidden cameras, and even satellites you had better get used to it. They’re used by both sides of the struggle with regularity.

    Those little point and shoot cameras the UCD Police were using made me chuckle when I saw them. If serious surveillance was the call then I pity the expertise of the department. Someone on your blog last week was comparing the Chancellors residence to the White House. If protesters were that close to the White House they would be in jail right now. Their facial recognition profile documented and background checks completed. If the ACLU didn’t have a tizzy fit when you talked to them, then I doubt the whole incident is a big deal. If there is a scab to pick the ACLU has the fingernail.

    What’s the matter? The UCD PD horning in on your job? You have given a face to the protesters more than anyone else to this point. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

  29. Anonymous

    There is not much of a difference between police taking pictures at a street protest and police video recording devices in police cars. The Yolo County sheriff now has video that records the front of the car (the stop) and also records the back seat of the car when detaining someone or transporting someone.

  30. Anonymous

    There is not much of a difference between police taking pictures at a street protest and police video recording devices in police cars. The Yolo County sheriff now has video that records the front of the car (the stop) and also records the back seat of the car when detaining someone or transporting someone.

  31. Anonymous

    There is not much of a difference between police taking pictures at a street protest and police video recording devices in police cars. The Yolo County sheriff now has video that records the front of the car (the stop) and also records the back seat of the car when detaining someone or transporting someone.

  32. Anonymous

    There is not much of a difference between police taking pictures at a street protest and police video recording devices in police cars. The Yolo County sheriff now has video that records the front of the car (the stop) and also records the back seat of the car when detaining someone or transporting someone.

  33. darnell

    I think the example above is not a good one either. The protesters weren’t being detained, just observed. However, I am still not bothered much by the police photography incident.

  34. darnell

    I think the example above is not a good one either. The protesters weren’t being detained, just observed. However, I am still not bothered much by the police photography incident.

  35. darnell

    I think the example above is not a good one either. The protesters weren’t being detained, just observed. However, I am still not bothered much by the police photography incident.

  36. darnell

    I think the example above is not a good one either. The protesters weren’t being detained, just observed. However, I am still not bothered much by the police photography incident.

  37. Anonymous

    “Wrong” is not an explanation.

    I don’t see how police officer who is called to a scene and records the event by video or still picture differs. The protesters are not looking for privacy here. I’m sure that if a newspaper photographer showed up and took pictures, they would welcome it.

    I think that there is perceived to be a mountain here when in actual fact it is just a mole hill.

  38. Anonymous

    “Wrong” is not an explanation.

    I don’t see how police officer who is called to a scene and records the event by video or still picture differs. The protesters are not looking for privacy here. I’m sure that if a newspaper photographer showed up and took pictures, they would welcome it.

    I think that there is perceived to be a mountain here when in actual fact it is just a mole hill.

  39. Anonymous

    “Wrong” is not an explanation.

    I don’t see how police officer who is called to a scene and records the event by video or still picture differs. The protesters are not looking for privacy here. I’m sure that if a newspaper photographer showed up and took pictures, they would welcome it.

    I think that there is perceived to be a mountain here when in actual fact it is just a mole hill.

  40. Anonymous

    “Wrong” is not an explanation.

    I don’t see how police officer who is called to a scene and records the event by video or still picture differs. The protesters are not looking for privacy here. I’m sure that if a newspaper photographer showed up and took pictures, they would welcome it.

    I think that there is perceived to be a mountain here when in actual fact it is just a mole hill.

  41. Rich Rifkin

    I don’t think, objectively, there is anything wrong with what the police have done. There is even likely a justifiable law enforcement rationale for so doing. Nonetheless, subjectively, the idea of having cops take my picture and keeping it on file when I am engaged in a legal activity in public would give me the willies. I would think that law enforcement officers would equally be uncomfortable if a citizen were going around and taking their pictures in public, especially if they had no idea what his purposes were.

  42. Rich Rifkin

    I don’t think, objectively, there is anything wrong with what the police have done. There is even likely a justifiable law enforcement rationale for so doing. Nonetheless, subjectively, the idea of having cops take my picture and keeping it on file when I am engaged in a legal activity in public would give me the willies. I would think that law enforcement officers would equally be uncomfortable if a citizen were going around and taking their pictures in public, especially if they had no idea what his purposes were.

  43. Rich Rifkin

    I don’t think, objectively, there is anything wrong with what the police have done. There is even likely a justifiable law enforcement rationale for so doing. Nonetheless, subjectively, the idea of having cops take my picture and keeping it on file when I am engaged in a legal activity in public would give me the willies. I would think that law enforcement officers would equally be uncomfortable if a citizen were going around and taking their pictures in public, especially if they had no idea what his purposes were.

  44. Rich Rifkin

    I don’t think, objectively, there is anything wrong with what the police have done. There is even likely a justifiable law enforcement rationale for so doing. Nonetheless, subjectively, the idea of having cops take my picture and keeping it on file when I am engaged in a legal activity in public would give me the willies. I would think that law enforcement officers would equally be uncomfortable if a citizen were going around and taking their pictures in public, especially if they had no idea what his purposes were.

  45. Anonymous

    The difference is that law enforcement officers are sworn to uphold the law and have an ethical standard to uphold to the taxpaying, voting, tuition members of a community.

    If members of a community feel that they want to take pictures to ensure that officers are upholding the law that they are sworn to uphold then that is their right. Officers should expect to be under such scrutiny when their response has been questionable in the past.

    However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment.

    It really puts the university in a bad light showing how Larry, as Chancellor, is wasting UCD resources such as money.

  46. Anonymous

    The difference is that law enforcement officers are sworn to uphold the law and have an ethical standard to uphold to the taxpaying, voting, tuition members of a community.

    If members of a community feel that they want to take pictures to ensure that officers are upholding the law that they are sworn to uphold then that is their right. Officers should expect to be under such scrutiny when their response has been questionable in the past.

    However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment.

    It really puts the university in a bad light showing how Larry, as Chancellor, is wasting UCD resources such as money.

  47. Anonymous

    The difference is that law enforcement officers are sworn to uphold the law and have an ethical standard to uphold to the taxpaying, voting, tuition members of a community.

    If members of a community feel that they want to take pictures to ensure that officers are upholding the law that they are sworn to uphold then that is their right. Officers should expect to be under such scrutiny when their response has been questionable in the past.

    However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment.

    It really puts the university in a bad light showing how Larry, as Chancellor, is wasting UCD resources such as money.

  48. Anonymous

    The difference is that law enforcement officers are sworn to uphold the law and have an ethical standard to uphold to the taxpaying, voting, tuition members of a community.

    If members of a community feel that they want to take pictures to ensure that officers are upholding the law that they are sworn to uphold then that is their right. Officers should expect to be under such scrutiny when their response has been questionable in the past.

    However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment.

    It really puts the university in a bad light showing how Larry, as Chancellor, is wasting UCD resources such as money.

  49. darnell

    “However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment”.

    I wasn’t at that meeting when Larry told them to do that. Could you post the minutes to that meeting or the memo to that effect?

    Camera shots don’t bother me, gun shots do. That one guy looked like the Barney Fife of camera men. There probably wasn’t any media in the camera.

    We are makng a big deal out of nothing IMHO

  50. darnell

    “However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment”.

    I wasn’t at that meeting when Larry told them to do that. Could you post the minutes to that meeting or the memo to that effect?

    Camera shots don’t bother me, gun shots do. That one guy looked like the Barney Fife of camera men. There probably wasn’t any media in the camera.

    We are makng a big deal out of nothing IMHO

  51. darnell

    “However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment”.

    I wasn’t at that meeting when Larry told them to do that. Could you post the minutes to that meeting or the memo to that effect?

    Camera shots don’t bother me, gun shots do. That one guy looked like the Barney Fife of camera men. There probably wasn’t any media in the camera.

    We are makng a big deal out of nothing IMHO

  52. darnell

    “However, for them to use intimidation tactics when ordered to do so by the Chancellor and UCD Police Chief….well, let’s just say it’s not good judgment”.

    I wasn’t at that meeting when Larry told them to do that. Could you post the minutes to that meeting or the memo to that effect?

    Camera shots don’t bother me, gun shots do. That one guy looked like the Barney Fife of camera men. There probably wasn’t any media in the camera.

    We are makng a big deal out of nothing IMHO

  53. Anonymous

    Darnell, Darnell –

    You’re completely missing the point. We may not be afraid of Officer Barney Fife from UCD; however, parents, students and community members who pay money to UCD – lots of money – don’t want the officers protecting Larry. We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources.

  54. Anonymous

    Darnell, Darnell –

    You’re completely missing the point. We may not be afraid of Officer Barney Fife from UCD; however, parents, students and community members who pay money to UCD – lots of money – don’t want the officers protecting Larry. We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources.

  55. Anonymous

    Darnell, Darnell –

    You’re completely missing the point. We may not be afraid of Officer Barney Fife from UCD; however, parents, students and community members who pay money to UCD – lots of money – don’t want the officers protecting Larry. We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources.

  56. Anonymous

    Darnell, Darnell –

    You’re completely missing the point. We may not be afraid of Officer Barney Fife from UCD; however, parents, students and community members who pay money to UCD – lots of money – don’t want the officers protecting Larry. We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources.

  57. darnell

    Anonymous, Anonymous…

    “We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources”.

    I guess I am missing the point and you are not making it any clearer with your generalizations. I am the people you mention, a parent, sent kids to UCD and a community member and I don’t share your views. I want everybody protected, the kids and Larry too. We can nit pick until the cows come home about how money is wasted at UCD. It’s not strictly relegated to the Chancellors office.

    How your statement relates to taking pictures and the loss of civil rights as I thought this particular blog section was covering has me at a loss.

    My point is that I don’t think anyone was harmed by the police taking pictures and if you don’t understand that then we are even.

  58. darnell

    Anonymous, Anonymous…

    “We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources”.

    I guess I am missing the point and you are not making it any clearer with your generalizations. I am the people you mention, a parent, sent kids to UCD and a community member and I don’t share your views. I want everybody protected, the kids and Larry too. We can nit pick until the cows come home about how money is wasted at UCD. It’s not strictly relegated to the Chancellors office.

    How your statement relates to taking pictures and the loss of civil rights as I thought this particular blog section was covering has me at a loss.

    My point is that I don’t think anyone was harmed by the police taking pictures and if you don’t understand that then we are even.

  59. darnell

    Anonymous, Anonymous…

    “We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources”.

    I guess I am missing the point and you are not making it any clearer with your generalizations. I am the people you mention, a parent, sent kids to UCD and a community member and I don’t share your views. I want everybody protected, the kids and Larry too. We can nit pick until the cows come home about how money is wasted at UCD. It’s not strictly relegated to the Chancellors office.

    How your statement relates to taking pictures and the loss of civil rights as I thought this particular blog section was covering has me at a loss.

    My point is that I don’t think anyone was harmed by the police taking pictures and if you don’t understand that then we are even.

  60. darnell

    Anonymous, Anonymous…

    “We want them protecting our children! Larry can get his own body guards. What a waste of resources”.

    I guess I am missing the point and you are not making it any clearer with your generalizations. I am the people you mention, a parent, sent kids to UCD and a community member and I don’t share your views. I want everybody protected, the kids and Larry too. We can nit pick until the cows come home about how money is wasted at UCD. It’s not strictly relegated to the Chancellors office.

    How your statement relates to taking pictures and the loss of civil rights as I thought this particular blog section was covering has me at a loss.

    My point is that I don’t think anyone was harmed by the police taking pictures and if you don’t understand that then we are even.

  61. 無名 - wu ming

    i fail to see the utility in terms of law enforcement of photographing peaceful and lawful protesters. if they break a law, then arrest them or ticket them, but if they’re acting within the bounds of the law then leave them be. the first amendment protects the right to speak and peacably assemble, this is like taking photographs of people for walking through the farmer’s market or buying hamburgers.

    police taking pictures while on duty are not just everyday citizens exercizing first amendment rights, they are supposed to be enforcing laws as agents of the state of california (in this case), and are most likely building files on lawful students because of their opposition to university policy, which is in itself rather disturbing. certainly it is far better than active police abuse, but i would like to see the UCDPD’s explanation for why these kids are considered enough of a threat that they are building up files on them.

    were the police taking photographs when the campus republicans did their obnoxious little capture the flag “protest”? do they taker them of the fundamentalist christian guy who occasionally shows up on campus and rants at the crowd about how we’re all going to hell? why then does this peaceful and well-organized group of food service workers get this treatment?

  62. 無名 - wu ming

    i fail to see the utility in terms of law enforcement of photographing peaceful and lawful protesters. if they break a law, then arrest them or ticket them, but if they’re acting within the bounds of the law then leave them be. the first amendment protects the right to speak and peacably assemble, this is like taking photographs of people for walking through the farmer’s market or buying hamburgers.

    police taking pictures while on duty are not just everyday citizens exercizing first amendment rights, they are supposed to be enforcing laws as agents of the state of california (in this case), and are most likely building files on lawful students because of their opposition to university policy, which is in itself rather disturbing. certainly it is far better than active police abuse, but i would like to see the UCDPD’s explanation for why these kids are considered enough of a threat that they are building up files on them.

    were the police taking photographs when the campus republicans did their obnoxious little capture the flag “protest”? do they taker them of the fundamentalist christian guy who occasionally shows up on campus and rants at the crowd about how we’re all going to hell? why then does this peaceful and well-organized group of food service workers get this treatment?

  63. 無名 - wu ming

    i fail to see the utility in terms of law enforcement of photographing peaceful and lawful protesters. if they break a law, then arrest them or ticket them, but if they’re acting within the bounds of the law then leave them be. the first amendment protects the right to speak and peacably assemble, this is like taking photographs of people for walking through the farmer’s market or buying hamburgers.

    police taking pictures while on duty are not just everyday citizens exercizing first amendment rights, they are supposed to be enforcing laws as agents of the state of california (in this case), and are most likely building files on lawful students because of their opposition to university policy, which is in itself rather disturbing. certainly it is far better than active police abuse, but i would like to see the UCDPD’s explanation for why these kids are considered enough of a threat that they are building up files on them.

    were the police taking photographs when the campus republicans did their obnoxious little capture the flag “protest”? do they taker them of the fundamentalist christian guy who occasionally shows up on campus and rants at the crowd about how we’re all going to hell? why then does this peaceful and well-organized group of food service workers get this treatment?

  64. 無名 - wu ming

    i fail to see the utility in terms of law enforcement of photographing peaceful and lawful protesters. if they break a law, then arrest them or ticket them, but if they’re acting within the bounds of the law then leave them be. the first amendment protects the right to speak and peacably assemble, this is like taking photographs of people for walking through the farmer’s market or buying hamburgers.

    police taking pictures while on duty are not just everyday citizens exercizing first amendment rights, they are supposed to be enforcing laws as agents of the state of california (in this case), and are most likely building files on lawful students because of their opposition to university policy, which is in itself rather disturbing. certainly it is far better than active police abuse, but i would like to see the UCDPD’s explanation for why these kids are considered enough of a threat that they are building up files on them.

    were the police taking photographs when the campus republicans did their obnoxious little capture the flag “protest”? do they taker them of the fundamentalist christian guy who occasionally shows up on campus and rants at the crowd about how we’re all going to hell? why then does this peaceful and well-organized group of food service workers get this treatment?

  65. Richard

    wu ming nails it, you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally

    but labor unions, that’s different, and antiwar ones, that waaaay different

    wonder why that is? and what does it say about the propriety of taking these photographs?

    –Richard Estes

  66. Richard

    wu ming nails it, you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally

    but labor unions, that’s different, and antiwar ones, that waaaay different

    wonder why that is? and what does it say about the propriety of taking these photographs?

    –Richard Estes

  67. Richard

    wu ming nails it, you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally

    but labor unions, that’s different, and antiwar ones, that waaaay different

    wonder why that is? and what does it say about the propriety of taking these photographs?

    –Richard Estes

  68. Richard

    wu ming nails it, you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally

    but labor unions, that’s different, and antiwar ones, that waaaay different

    wonder why that is? and what does it say about the propriety of taking these photographs?

    –Richard Estes

  69. darnell

    Davisite

    I am not sure why they were taking pictures of the protesters. I don’t even know that they were taking pictures of the protesters, for sure. I wasn’t there and can only rely on what’s reported here. Which I have no reason to doubt.

    Were they group shots, close-ups, team leader shots, people trampling the petunias, or pictures to show at their next donut breakfast? Could they be building a dossier of sorts, maybe. Does it bother me? No! I would have the same answer if they were of me, a republican or democratic whack job, religious nut case, or anybody in the world.

    The people that feel differently than I do have that perfect right. It just doesn’t bother me. I chose not to fight this battle. Like I said earlier, I rather see cameras in their hands rather than other implements.

  70. darnell

    Davisite

    I am not sure why they were taking pictures of the protesters. I don’t even know that they were taking pictures of the protesters, for sure. I wasn’t there and can only rely on what’s reported here. Which I have no reason to doubt.

    Were they group shots, close-ups, team leader shots, people trampling the petunias, or pictures to show at their next donut breakfast? Could they be building a dossier of sorts, maybe. Does it bother me? No! I would have the same answer if they were of me, a republican or democratic whack job, religious nut case, or anybody in the world.

    The people that feel differently than I do have that perfect right. It just doesn’t bother me. I chose not to fight this battle. Like I said earlier, I rather see cameras in their hands rather than other implements.

  71. darnell

    Davisite

    I am not sure why they were taking pictures of the protesters. I don’t even know that they were taking pictures of the protesters, for sure. I wasn’t there and can only rely on what’s reported here. Which I have no reason to doubt.

    Were they group shots, close-ups, team leader shots, people trampling the petunias, or pictures to show at their next donut breakfast? Could they be building a dossier of sorts, maybe. Does it bother me? No! I would have the same answer if they were of me, a republican or democratic whack job, religious nut case, or anybody in the world.

    The people that feel differently than I do have that perfect right. It just doesn’t bother me. I chose not to fight this battle. Like I said earlier, I rather see cameras in their hands rather than other implements.

  72. darnell

    Davisite

    I am not sure why they were taking pictures of the protesters. I don’t even know that they were taking pictures of the protesters, for sure. I wasn’t there and can only rely on what’s reported here. Which I have no reason to doubt.

    Were they group shots, close-ups, team leader shots, people trampling the petunias, or pictures to show at their next donut breakfast? Could they be building a dossier of sorts, maybe. Does it bother me? No! I would have the same answer if they were of me, a republican or democratic whack job, religious nut case, or anybody in the world.

    The people that feel differently than I do have that perfect right. It just doesn’t bother me. I chose not to fight this battle. Like I said earlier, I rather see cameras in their hands rather than other implements.

  73. Rich Rifkin

    “you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally”

    While I am pro-choice, I suspect that the anti-abortion groups strongly disagree with you, Estes. I just did a quick Google search on this and found dozens — there are probably hundreds but I stopped looking — of stories where so-called ‘pro-life’ groups claim they have been harrassed by police. Many of these cases have resulted in lawsuits on 1st Amendment grounds.

    Here are a few: Detroit Police Harass Pro-Life Supporters, Shut Down Free Speech Outside Superbowl; Pro-life group can move forward with suit against police; and Huge Victory as Court Rules Against Ohio Police in Case of ‘Anti-Abortion’ Harassment.

  74. Rich Rifkin

    “you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally”

    While I am pro-choice, I suspect that the anti-abortion groups strongly disagree with you, Estes. I just did a quick Google search on this and found dozens — there are probably hundreds but I stopped looking — of stories where so-called ‘pro-life’ groups claim they have been harrassed by police. Many of these cases have resulted in lawsuits on 1st Amendment grounds.

    Here are a few: Detroit Police Harass Pro-Life Supporters, Shut Down Free Speech Outside Superbowl; Pro-life group can move forward with suit against police; and Huge Victory as Court Rules Against Ohio Police in Case of ‘Anti-Abortion’ Harassment.

  75. Rich Rifkin

    “you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally”

    While I am pro-choice, I suspect that the anti-abortion groups strongly disagree with you, Estes. I just did a quick Google search on this and found dozens — there are probably hundreds but I stopped looking — of stories where so-called ‘pro-life’ groups claim they have been harrassed by police. Many of these cases have resulted in lawsuits on 1st Amendment grounds.

    Here are a few: Detroit Police Harass Pro-Life Supporters, Shut Down Free Speech Outside Superbowl; Pro-life group can move forward with suit against police; and Huge Victory as Court Rules Against Ohio Police in Case of ‘Anti-Abortion’ Harassment.

  76. Rich Rifkin

    “you rarely, if ever, see the police taking pictures of Republican anti-immigration protests, or Christian fundamentalist ones (although, they were pretty good at making them feel comfortable when they participated in protests at abortion clinics), or right wing ones generally”

    While I am pro-choice, I suspect that the anti-abortion groups strongly disagree with you, Estes. I just did a quick Google search on this and found dozens — there are probably hundreds but I stopped looking — of stories where so-called ‘pro-life’ groups claim they have been harrassed by police. Many of these cases have resulted in lawsuits on 1st Amendment grounds.

    Here are a few: Detroit Police Harass Pro-Life Supporters, Shut Down Free Speech Outside Superbowl; Pro-life group can move forward with suit against police; and Huge Victory as Court Rules Against Ohio Police in Case of ‘Anti-Abortion’ Harassment.

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