Students Claim Envelope Stuffing Never Actually Happened

Just yesterday people on the Vanguard were suggesting that the school board race was about as exciting as watching grass grow. Someone earlier this week told me somewhat flippantly, these candidates are too nice, we need a scandal. Looks like some may be attempting to generate some controversy.

In last night’s newspaper, the Davis Enterprise ran an above-the-fold story based on a single source that suggested that Davis High School Teacher Don Winters had used classroom time in his capacity as Campaign Manager for Joe Spector to stuff envelopes for the campaign.

According to the Davis Enterprise:

B.J. Kline, a former board member, brought the alleged incident to the attention of Davis High Principal Mike Cawley, two current school board members and The Enterprise.

“This is campaigning at its worst,” Kline said. “(It) should not be allowed to happen.”

His allegation prompted plenty of discussion Thursday in Davis political circles. But when contacted by The Enterprise for comment, almost no one connected with the alleged incident, the school board campaign or the school district administration had much to say.

B.J. Kline has endorsed at least one of the opponents to Joe Spector.

The Vanguard has spoken with students off the record who claim that the incident never happened.

What did happen was that there was apparently supposed to be an envelope stuffing session occurring during lunch time. However, Principal Michael Cawley stopped that before it ever occurred. There was never according to my sources any type of envelope stuffing during classroom time.

The Enterprise quotes Interim Superintendent Richard Whitmore as saying:

“District policy is that student instructional time is to be focused on learning new material, and demonstrating subject matter expertise. This kind of alleged political activity doesn’t have any part of a lesson plan that the district would approve.”

On the other hand, the school sanctions groups, such as the DHS Young Democrats, which meets during lunch time in Don Winters room.

So it would appear that political activity during lunch time may be considered by the district to be different than political activity during actual class time.

In any case, this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline that were reported in the Davis Enterprise.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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428 thoughts on “Students Claim Envelope Stuffing Never Actually Happened”

  1. Anonymous

    I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Emptyprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

  2. Anonymous

    I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Emptyprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

  3. Anonymous

    I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Emptyprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

  4. Anonymous

    I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Emptyprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

  5. Anonymous

    It is very unsettling that a story would be printed above the fold about an ‘alleged’ event without even speaking to those supposedly involved. One has to wonder if the Enterprise would print something that could potentially hurt one of their endorsed candidates without first getting their views and/or allowing for further explanation, etc. This article seems like a rush to judgement and perhaps the intention is to sully the reputation of the candidate and his manager.

  6. Anonymous

    It is very unsettling that a story would be printed above the fold about an ‘alleged’ event without even speaking to those supposedly involved. One has to wonder if the Enterprise would print something that could potentially hurt one of their endorsed candidates without first getting their views and/or allowing for further explanation, etc. This article seems like a rush to judgement and perhaps the intention is to sully the reputation of the candidate and his manager.

  7. Anonymous

    It is very unsettling that a story would be printed above the fold about an ‘alleged’ event without even speaking to those supposedly involved. One has to wonder if the Enterprise would print something that could potentially hurt one of their endorsed candidates without first getting their views and/or allowing for further explanation, etc. This article seems like a rush to judgement and perhaps the intention is to sully the reputation of the candidate and his manager.

  8. Anonymous

    It is very unsettling that a story would be printed above the fold about an ‘alleged’ event without even speaking to those supposedly involved. One has to wonder if the Enterprise would print something that could potentially hurt one of their endorsed candidates without first getting their views and/or allowing for further explanation, etc. This article seems like a rush to judgement and perhaps the intention is to sully the reputation of the candidate and his manager.

  9. njr

    I read the story and figured it was the Dirty Tricks Department at work. Many people read the story on Friday. No Enterprise Saturday, giving it time to fester. Then Sunday there will be a retraction, buried inside.

    In the end a certain percentage of voters will be left with a feeling… “Joe Spector… didn’t his campaign do something sleazy…?”. Dirty tricks indeed!

  10. njr

    I read the story and figured it was the Dirty Tricks Department at work. Many people read the story on Friday. No Enterprise Saturday, giving it time to fester. Then Sunday there will be a retraction, buried inside.

    In the end a certain percentage of voters will be left with a feeling… “Joe Spector… didn’t his campaign do something sleazy…?”. Dirty tricks indeed!

  11. njr

    I read the story and figured it was the Dirty Tricks Department at work. Many people read the story on Friday. No Enterprise Saturday, giving it time to fester. Then Sunday there will be a retraction, buried inside.

    In the end a certain percentage of voters will be left with a feeling… “Joe Spector… didn’t his campaign do something sleazy…?”. Dirty tricks indeed!

  12. njr

    I read the story and figured it was the Dirty Tricks Department at work. Many people read the story on Friday. No Enterprise Saturday, giving it time to fester. Then Sunday there will be a retraction, buried inside.

    In the end a certain percentage of voters will be left with a feeling… “Joe Spector… didn’t his campaign do something sleazy…?”. Dirty tricks indeed!

  13. Diane

    Don Winters is a good teacher and a good human being. Joe Spector is also a good person that I am voting for.

    It is disgusting what the Enterprise does to people and has done to people over the years.

    It comes as no surprise that the Enterprise had this front page, above the fold story on him at the time that voters are mailing in their absentee ballots.

    They are willing to get sleazy to protect the two candidates that they have endorsed.

    Shame on Debbie Davis for allowing this rush to judgment.

    Debbie needs to leave just as Rick Rodriguez (editor) left the Sacramento Bee earlier this week.

  14. Diane

    Don Winters is a good teacher and a good human being. Joe Spector is also a good person that I am voting for.

    It is disgusting what the Enterprise does to people and has done to people over the years.

    It comes as no surprise that the Enterprise had this front page, above the fold story on him at the time that voters are mailing in their absentee ballots.

    They are willing to get sleazy to protect the two candidates that they have endorsed.

    Shame on Debbie Davis for allowing this rush to judgment.

    Debbie needs to leave just as Rick Rodriguez (editor) left the Sacramento Bee earlier this week.

  15. Diane

    Don Winters is a good teacher and a good human being. Joe Spector is also a good person that I am voting for.

    It is disgusting what the Enterprise does to people and has done to people over the years.

    It comes as no surprise that the Enterprise had this front page, above the fold story on him at the time that voters are mailing in their absentee ballots.

    They are willing to get sleazy to protect the two candidates that they have endorsed.

    Shame on Debbie Davis for allowing this rush to judgment.

    Debbie needs to leave just as Rick Rodriguez (editor) left the Sacramento Bee earlier this week.

  16. Diane

    Don Winters is a good teacher and a good human being. Joe Spector is also a good person that I am voting for.

    It is disgusting what the Enterprise does to people and has done to people over the years.

    It comes as no surprise that the Enterprise had this front page, above the fold story on him at the time that voters are mailing in their absentee ballots.

    They are willing to get sleazy to protect the two candidates that they have endorsed.

    Shame on Debbie Davis for allowing this rush to judgment.

    Debbie needs to leave just as Rick Rodriguez (editor) left the Sacramento Bee earlier this week.

  17. allegations abound

    I allege that The Davis Enterprise office has been used as a training ground for militant vegetarians who seek to violently overthrow the Davis City Council and install a totalitarian veggie-vegan council.
    The Enterprise was unavailable for comment, or rather, I didn’t ask, but hey, I just heard about this from that guy, you know the guy I’m talking about. Yeah, him.
    So it must be true, and if it IS true, then we should all be shocked and offended and our knees should jerk and we should immediately assume the worst and possibly stage a protest and maybe even express our outrage in other ways, some violent and some silly. Whatever works and gets some media coverage, or maybe even a viral video….
    “Leave The Enterprise Alone!!!!(sob, sniff)”

  18. allegations abound

    I allege that The Davis Enterprise office has been used as a training ground for militant vegetarians who seek to violently overthrow the Davis City Council and install a totalitarian veggie-vegan council.
    The Enterprise was unavailable for comment, or rather, I didn’t ask, but hey, I just heard about this from that guy, you know the guy I’m talking about. Yeah, him.
    So it must be true, and if it IS true, then we should all be shocked and offended and our knees should jerk and we should immediately assume the worst and possibly stage a protest and maybe even express our outrage in other ways, some violent and some silly. Whatever works and gets some media coverage, or maybe even a viral video….
    “Leave The Enterprise Alone!!!!(sob, sniff)”

  19. allegations abound

    I allege that The Davis Enterprise office has been used as a training ground for militant vegetarians who seek to violently overthrow the Davis City Council and install a totalitarian veggie-vegan council.
    The Enterprise was unavailable for comment, or rather, I didn’t ask, but hey, I just heard about this from that guy, you know the guy I’m talking about. Yeah, him.
    So it must be true, and if it IS true, then we should all be shocked and offended and our knees should jerk and we should immediately assume the worst and possibly stage a protest and maybe even express our outrage in other ways, some violent and some silly. Whatever works and gets some media coverage, or maybe even a viral video….
    “Leave The Enterprise Alone!!!!(sob, sniff)”

  20. allegations abound

    I allege that The Davis Enterprise office has been used as a training ground for militant vegetarians who seek to violently overthrow the Davis City Council and install a totalitarian veggie-vegan council.
    The Enterprise was unavailable for comment, or rather, I didn’t ask, but hey, I just heard about this from that guy, you know the guy I’m talking about. Yeah, him.
    So it must be true, and if it IS true, then we should all be shocked and offended and our knees should jerk and we should immediately assume the worst and possibly stage a protest and maybe even express our outrage in other ways, some violent and some silly. Whatever works and gets some media coverage, or maybe even a viral video….
    “Leave The Enterprise Alone!!!!(sob, sniff)”

  21. Anonymous

    “davisite said…

    I am canvassing my neighborhood precinct in support of Joe Spector. What are YOU doing for the next few weekends?”

    Earning a living.

  22. Anonymous

    “davisite said…

    I am canvassing my neighborhood precinct in support of Joe Spector. What are YOU doing for the next few weekends?”

    Earning a living.

  23. Anonymous

    “davisite said…

    I am canvassing my neighborhood precinct in support of Joe Spector. What are YOU doing for the next few weekends?”

    Earning a living.

  24. Anonymous

    “davisite said…

    I am canvassing my neighborhood precinct in support of Joe Spector. What are YOU doing for the next few weekends?”

    Earning a living.

  25. Anonymous

    Ms. or Mr. Allegations Abound,

    It sounds like you need to pick up a romance novel, a bowl of popcorn, and a box of tissues and call it a weekend (or longer).

    That was pretty pathetic.

  26. Anonymous

    Ms. or Mr. Allegations Abound,

    It sounds like you need to pick up a romance novel, a bowl of popcorn, and a box of tissues and call it a weekend (or longer).

    That was pretty pathetic.

  27. Anonymous

    Ms. or Mr. Allegations Abound,

    It sounds like you need to pick up a romance novel, a bowl of popcorn, and a box of tissues and call it a weekend (or longer).

    That was pretty pathetic.

  28. Anonymous

    Ms. or Mr. Allegations Abound,

    It sounds like you need to pick up a romance novel, a bowl of popcorn, and a box of tissues and call it a weekend (or longer).

    That was pretty pathetic.

  29. don shor

    Anonymous 8:15 said
    …who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

    From page 2:
    “Winters said Spector would issue a statement….and that he’d have no further comment.
    Spector released a 277-word statement….”

  30. don shor

    Anonymous 8:15 said
    …who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

    From page 2:
    “Winters said Spector would issue a statement….and that he’d have no further comment.
    Spector released a 277-word statement….”

  31. don shor

    Anonymous 8:15 said
    …who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

    From page 2:
    “Winters said Spector would issue a statement….and that he’d have no further comment.
    Spector released a 277-word statement….”

  32. don shor

    Anonymous 8:15 said
    …who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…

    From page 2:
    “Winters said Spector would issue a statement….and that he’d have no further comment.
    Spector released a 277-word statement….”

  33. Rich Rifkin

    “I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Enterprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…”

    Three things:

    1) I am not an Enterprise employee. As such, I have no say as to what goes into that newspaper. I am simply paid as an outsider to write a biweekly opinion column;

    2) Jeff Hudson did in fact contact Joe Spector. He is quoted in the body of the story.

    3) After I read the story, I sent a letter to Jeff Hudson and Debbie Davis, asking a couple of pointed questions.

    This is from my letter:

    “I found it troubling that you neither quoted Don Winters or specifically said that Winters would not comment on the allegation. It seems to me that if someone is alleged to have done something improper, he should at least have the opportunity to respond in the same article in which the allegations are made. If it was the case that Winters was unavailable for comment, then I think one of two things would be in order: 1) hold the story (a reasonable amount of time) until Winters could be contacted; or 2) specifically state in the story that The Enterprise tried to contact Don Winters for a response, but he did not answer your requests. As this story was published, I think it leaves the impression that this activity occurred, when even the person making the allegations was not there to know if it really did.

    “Second, it was unclear in the story how BJ Kline came to know of the activity that he alleges took place. It seems to me that Jeff should have asked Kline exactly who told him of this event and Kline’s response to that question should have been in the story. Without knowing where BJ got his information, it seems entirely possible that the story was either fabricated or (if Kline’s source was weak) misinterpreted.”

  34. Rich Rifkin

    “I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Enterprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…”

    Three things:

    1) I am not an Enterprise employee. As such, I have no say as to what goes into that newspaper. I am simply paid as an outsider to write a biweekly opinion column;

    2) Jeff Hudson did in fact contact Joe Spector. He is quoted in the body of the story.

    3) After I read the story, I sent a letter to Jeff Hudson and Debbie Davis, asking a couple of pointed questions.

    This is from my letter:

    “I found it troubling that you neither quoted Don Winters or specifically said that Winters would not comment on the allegation. It seems to me that if someone is alleged to have done something improper, he should at least have the opportunity to respond in the same article in which the allegations are made. If it was the case that Winters was unavailable for comment, then I think one of two things would be in order: 1) hold the story (a reasonable amount of time) until Winters could be contacted; or 2) specifically state in the story that The Enterprise tried to contact Don Winters for a response, but he did not answer your requests. As this story was published, I think it leaves the impression that this activity occurred, when even the person making the allegations was not there to know if it really did.

    “Second, it was unclear in the story how BJ Kline came to know of the activity that he alleges took place. It seems to me that Jeff should have asked Kline exactly who told him of this event and Kline’s response to that question should have been in the story. Without knowing where BJ got his information, it seems entirely possible that the story was either fabricated or (if Kline’s source was weak) misinterpreted.”

  35. Rich Rifkin

    “I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Enterprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…”

    Three things:

    1) I am not an Enterprise employee. As such, I have no say as to what goes into that newspaper. I am simply paid as an outsider to write a biweekly opinion column;

    2) Jeff Hudson did in fact contact Joe Spector. He is quoted in the body of the story.

    3) After I read the story, I sent a letter to Jeff Hudson and Debbie Davis, asking a couple of pointed questions.

    This is from my letter:

    “I found it troubling that you neither quoted Don Winters or specifically said that Winters would not comment on the allegation. It seems to me that if someone is alleged to have done something improper, he should at least have the opportunity to respond in the same article in which the allegations are made. If it was the case that Winters was unavailable for comment, then I think one of two things would be in order: 1) hold the story (a reasonable amount of time) until Winters could be contacted; or 2) specifically state in the story that The Enterprise tried to contact Don Winters for a response, but he did not answer your requests. As this story was published, I think it leaves the impression that this activity occurred, when even the person making the allegations was not there to know if it really did.

    “Second, it was unclear in the story how BJ Kline came to know of the activity that he alleges took place. It seems to me that Jeff should have asked Kline exactly who told him of this event and Kline’s response to that question should have been in the story. Without knowing where BJ got his information, it seems entirely possible that the story was either fabricated or (if Kline’s source was weak) misinterpreted.”

  36. Rich Rifkin

    “I wonder what Rich Rifkin’s take is on the writer of the Enterprise story, who apparently didn’t contact Don Winters or Joe Spector before making these scandalous allegations…”

    Three things:

    1) I am not an Enterprise employee. As such, I have no say as to what goes into that newspaper. I am simply paid as an outsider to write a biweekly opinion column;

    2) Jeff Hudson did in fact contact Joe Spector. He is quoted in the body of the story.

    3) After I read the story, I sent a letter to Jeff Hudson and Debbie Davis, asking a couple of pointed questions.

    This is from my letter:

    “I found it troubling that you neither quoted Don Winters or specifically said that Winters would not comment on the allegation. It seems to me that if someone is alleged to have done something improper, he should at least have the opportunity to respond in the same article in which the allegations are made. If it was the case that Winters was unavailable for comment, then I think one of two things would be in order: 1) hold the story (a reasonable amount of time) until Winters could be contacted; or 2) specifically state in the story that The Enterprise tried to contact Don Winters for a response, but he did not answer your requests. As this story was published, I think it leaves the impression that this activity occurred, when even the person making the allegations was not there to know if it really did.

    “Second, it was unclear in the story how BJ Kline came to know of the activity that he alleges took place. It seems to me that Jeff should have asked Kline exactly who told him of this event and Kline’s response to that question should have been in the story. Without knowing where BJ got his information, it seems entirely possible that the story was either fabricated or (if Kline’s source was weak) misinterpreted.”

  37. Rich Rifkin

    EDIT: Until I read Don Shor’s comment, here, I didn’t realize that I was mistaken. It does in fact say just what Shor notes: “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Assuming that is all Don Winters had to say, and that he did not deny BJ Kline’s allegations, then there is nothing more Jeff Hudson could have done, other than laying out how BJ Kline came to “know” what happened in Winters’ classroom.

  38. Rich Rifkin

    EDIT: Until I read Don Shor’s comment, here, I didn’t realize that I was mistaken. It does in fact say just what Shor notes: “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Assuming that is all Don Winters had to say, and that he did not deny BJ Kline’s allegations, then there is nothing more Jeff Hudson could have done, other than laying out how BJ Kline came to “know” what happened in Winters’ classroom.

  39. Rich Rifkin

    EDIT: Until I read Don Shor’s comment, here, I didn’t realize that I was mistaken. It does in fact say just what Shor notes: “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Assuming that is all Don Winters had to say, and that he did not deny BJ Kline’s allegations, then there is nothing more Jeff Hudson could have done, other than laying out how BJ Kline came to “know” what happened in Winters’ classroom.

  40. Rich Rifkin

    EDIT: Until I read Don Shor’s comment, here, I didn’t realize that I was mistaken. It does in fact say just what Shor notes: “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Assuming that is all Don Winters had to say, and that he did not deny BJ Kline’s allegations, then there is nothing more Jeff Hudson could have done, other than laying out how BJ Kline came to “know” what happened in Winters’ classroom.

  41. Anonymous

    The DHS YDs can do what they want during their club meetings @ lunch aka non-instructional time. If they want to engage in political activity, it is allowed. This is just another load of BS

  42. Anonymous

    The DHS YDs can do what they want during their club meetings @ lunch aka non-instructional time. If they want to engage in political activity, it is allowed. This is just another load of BS

  43. Anonymous

    The DHS YDs can do what they want during their club meetings @ lunch aka non-instructional time. If they want to engage in political activity, it is allowed. This is just another load of BS

  44. Anonymous

    The DHS YDs can do what they want during their club meetings @ lunch aka non-instructional time. If they want to engage in political activity, it is allowed. This is just another load of BS

  45. Anonymous

    BJ Kline knew because BJ Kline’s daughter was in the economics class that supposedly was involved in stuffing the envelopes.

    What is troubling to me is that Jeff did not attempt to contact some of the students in the class to see if this story was true.

  46. Anonymous

    BJ Kline knew because BJ Kline’s daughter was in the economics class that supposedly was involved in stuffing the envelopes.

    What is troubling to me is that Jeff did not attempt to contact some of the students in the class to see if this story was true.

  47. Anonymous

    BJ Kline knew because BJ Kline’s daughter was in the economics class that supposedly was involved in stuffing the envelopes.

    What is troubling to me is that Jeff did not attempt to contact some of the students in the class to see if this story was true.

  48. Anonymous

    BJ Kline knew because BJ Kline’s daughter was in the economics class that supposedly was involved in stuffing the envelopes.

    What is troubling to me is that Jeff did not attempt to contact some of the students in the class to see if this story was true.

  49. Anonymous

    Think back to BJ Kline’s time on the school board…what he did, or didn’t do, and look at who he is endorsing and the pieces of the puzzle start coming together.

  50. Anonymous

    Think back to BJ Kline’s time on the school board…what he did, or didn’t do, and look at who he is endorsing and the pieces of the puzzle start coming together.

  51. Anonymous

    Think back to BJ Kline’s time on the school board…what he did, or didn’t do, and look at who he is endorsing and the pieces of the puzzle start coming together.

  52. Anonymous

    Think back to BJ Kline’s time on the school board…what he did, or didn’t do, and look at who he is endorsing and the pieces of the puzzle start coming together.

  53. Anonymous

    I guess the basic issue is that Don Winters tries to deal with his HS students as critical-thinking near-adults. Most of them will be of voting age and/or old enough to serve and die in our military in a year or two.

  54. Anonymous

    I guess the basic issue is that Don Winters tries to deal with his HS students as critical-thinking near-adults. Most of them will be of voting age and/or old enough to serve and die in our military in a year or two.

  55. Anonymous

    I guess the basic issue is that Don Winters tries to deal with his HS students as critical-thinking near-adults. Most of them will be of voting age and/or old enough to serve and die in our military in a year or two.

  56. Anonymous

    I guess the basic issue is that Don Winters tries to deal with his HS students as critical-thinking near-adults. Most of them will be of voting age and/or old enough to serve and die in our military in a year or two.

  57. former enterprise subscriber

    The Enterprise article did not ask questions. If you read the article you will see that.

    The story that the Vanguard covered regarding councilman Souza conducting a poll without telling people he was conducting a poll when they asked is a different story.

    Apples and oranges. You should not confuse the two.

  58. former enterprise subscriber

    The Enterprise article did not ask questions. If you read the article you will see that.

    The story that the Vanguard covered regarding councilman Souza conducting a poll without telling people he was conducting a poll when they asked is a different story.

    Apples and oranges. You should not confuse the two.

  59. former enterprise subscriber

    The Enterprise article did not ask questions. If you read the article you will see that.

    The story that the Vanguard covered regarding councilman Souza conducting a poll without telling people he was conducting a poll when they asked is a different story.

    Apples and oranges. You should not confuse the two.

  60. former enterprise subscriber

    The Enterprise article did not ask questions. If you read the article you will see that.

    The story that the Vanguard covered regarding councilman Souza conducting a poll without telling people he was conducting a poll when they asked is a different story.

    Apples and oranges. You should not confuse the two.

  61. former enterprise subscriber

    BTW – I forgot to mention that I am a former Enterprise subscriber. I read articles online now. It’s not worth the subscription IMHO.

  62. former enterprise subscriber

    BTW – I forgot to mention that I am a former Enterprise subscriber. I read articles online now. It’s not worth the subscription IMHO.

  63. former enterprise subscriber

    BTW – I forgot to mention that I am a former Enterprise subscriber. I read articles online now. It’s not worth the subscription IMHO.

  64. former enterprise subscriber

    BTW – I forgot to mention that I am a former Enterprise subscriber. I read articles online now. It’s not worth the subscription IMHO.

  65. Diogenes

    The Enterprise probably should not have printed the story without confirmation from a second source or other confirming evidence. However, the Enterprise did apparently attempt to gain confirmation from Winters (who declined to comment) and from Spector, who released a statement that id not deny the allegations or story.

    I’m glad to see that DPD recognizes poor journalism choices. Hopefully, in the future, he will think about his own blog in the same way. Otherwise, all of us should read the articles with the same jaundiced eye that DPD reads the Enterprise.

  66. Diogenes

    The Enterprise probably should not have printed the story without confirmation from a second source or other confirming evidence. However, the Enterprise did apparently attempt to gain confirmation from Winters (who declined to comment) and from Spector, who released a statement that id not deny the allegations or story.

    I’m glad to see that DPD recognizes poor journalism choices. Hopefully, in the future, he will think about his own blog in the same way. Otherwise, all of us should read the articles with the same jaundiced eye that DPD reads the Enterprise.

  67. Diogenes

    The Enterprise probably should not have printed the story without confirmation from a second source or other confirming evidence. However, the Enterprise did apparently attempt to gain confirmation from Winters (who declined to comment) and from Spector, who released a statement that id not deny the allegations or story.

    I’m glad to see that DPD recognizes poor journalism choices. Hopefully, in the future, he will think about his own blog in the same way. Otherwise, all of us should read the articles with the same jaundiced eye that DPD reads the Enterprise.

  68. Diogenes

    The Enterprise probably should not have printed the story without confirmation from a second source or other confirming evidence. However, the Enterprise did apparently attempt to gain confirmation from Winters (who declined to comment) and from Spector, who released a statement that id not deny the allegations or story.

    I’m glad to see that DPD recognizes poor journalism choices. Hopefully, in the future, he will think about his own blog in the same way. Otherwise, all of us should read the articles with the same jaundiced eye that DPD reads the Enterprise.

  69. is what it is...

    Bottom line is that the Enterprise ‘reporting’ is largely (and that’s being generous) the he-said, she-said type of ‘reporting’. They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not. Ok, so they can claim they are being ‘accurate’, but they are doing the readership a disservice.
    So what you end up with are stories like this, where they print an allegation, then either don’t, can’t, or get ‘no comment’ from the other side. Totally useless.

    And Anonymous 9:41. Get a funny bone. I find you pathetic.

  70. is what it is...

    Bottom line is that the Enterprise ‘reporting’ is largely (and that’s being generous) the he-said, she-said type of ‘reporting’. They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not. Ok, so they can claim they are being ‘accurate’, but they are doing the readership a disservice.
    So what you end up with are stories like this, where they print an allegation, then either don’t, can’t, or get ‘no comment’ from the other side. Totally useless.

    And Anonymous 9:41. Get a funny bone. I find you pathetic.

  71. is what it is...

    Bottom line is that the Enterprise ‘reporting’ is largely (and that’s being generous) the he-said, she-said type of ‘reporting’. They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not. Ok, so they can claim they are being ‘accurate’, but they are doing the readership a disservice.
    So what you end up with are stories like this, where they print an allegation, then either don’t, can’t, or get ‘no comment’ from the other side. Totally useless.

    And Anonymous 9:41. Get a funny bone. I find you pathetic.

  72. is what it is...

    Bottom line is that the Enterprise ‘reporting’ is largely (and that’s being generous) the he-said, she-said type of ‘reporting’. They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not. Ok, so they can claim they are being ‘accurate’, but they are doing the readership a disservice.
    So what you end up with are stories like this, where they print an allegation, then either don’t, can’t, or get ‘no comment’ from the other side. Totally useless.

    And Anonymous 9:41. Get a funny bone. I find you pathetic.

  73. davisite

    So…. the big story is that Don Winters was PLANNING to allow students to VOLUNTARILY stuff envelopes for Spector’s campaign during their lunch hour and Principal Crawley AGAIN intervened(remember his refusal to allow the visiting Wheels of Justice young people speak about their personal experiences of the Palestinian West Bank Occupation?)to exert his veto power on allowing these soon-to-be voters the opportunity to become engaged political participants.

  74. davisite

    So…. the big story is that Don Winters was PLANNING to allow students to VOLUNTARILY stuff envelopes for Spector’s campaign during their lunch hour and Principal Crawley AGAIN intervened(remember his refusal to allow the visiting Wheels of Justice young people speak about their personal experiences of the Palestinian West Bank Occupation?)to exert his veto power on allowing these soon-to-be voters the opportunity to become engaged political participants.

  75. davisite

    So…. the big story is that Don Winters was PLANNING to allow students to VOLUNTARILY stuff envelopes for Spector’s campaign during their lunch hour and Principal Crawley AGAIN intervened(remember his refusal to allow the visiting Wheels of Justice young people speak about their personal experiences of the Palestinian West Bank Occupation?)to exert his veto power on allowing these soon-to-be voters the opportunity to become engaged political participants.

  76. davisite

    So…. the big story is that Don Winters was PLANNING to allow students to VOLUNTARILY stuff envelopes for Spector’s campaign during their lunch hour and Principal Crawley AGAIN intervened(remember his refusal to allow the visiting Wheels of Justice young people speak about their personal experiences of the Palestinian West Bank Occupation?)to exert his veto power on allowing these soon-to-be voters the opportunity to become engaged political participants.

  77. Anonymous

    Man, high school students sure get a bad rap in this town. First, on this very blog a few weeks back, police are reported stalking students in the street to see if they are playing hooky, and now, did they or didn’t they stuff envelopes in a class and did they or didn’t they get tattled on?
    Maybe some of the grownups in this town never really grew up, i.e., still working out their own high school issues.

  78. Anonymous

    Man, high school students sure get a bad rap in this town. First, on this very blog a few weeks back, police are reported stalking students in the street to see if they are playing hooky, and now, did they or didn’t they stuff envelopes in a class and did they or didn’t they get tattled on?
    Maybe some of the grownups in this town never really grew up, i.e., still working out their own high school issues.

  79. Anonymous

    Man, high school students sure get a bad rap in this town. First, on this very blog a few weeks back, police are reported stalking students in the street to see if they are playing hooky, and now, did they or didn’t they stuff envelopes in a class and did they or didn’t they get tattled on?
    Maybe some of the grownups in this town never really grew up, i.e., still working out their own high school issues.

  80. Anonymous

    Man, high school students sure get a bad rap in this town. First, on this very blog a few weeks back, police are reported stalking students in the street to see if they are playing hooky, and now, did they or didn’t they stuff envelopes in a class and did they or didn’t they get tattled on?
    Maybe some of the grownups in this town never really grew up, i.e., still working out their own high school issues.

  81. Anonymous

    Here are the facts.

    Winters did, in fact, have his students stuffing Spector’s envelopes during instructional class time. That has been reported by numerous students in the class, including Kline’s daughter.

    Greenwald’s “investigation” and “reporting” amounted to asking questions of students who were NOT in the class.

    To their credit, neither Winters nor Spector denied that this event happened–because it did.

    To his great discredit, Winters has not apologized to the students, the school, and the community for his conduct.

    To his even greater discredit, Spector tried to use the opportunity to attack Kline and the other candidates.

    So here are a few questions and observations.

    First, to Greenwald and his cast of commenters, how come you’re “exposing the dark underbelly” when you’re attacking people who don’t agree with you, but when bad (and true) facts are reported about someone you like, it’s “dirty tricks” and “scandalous” reporting? Come on folks, an objective, rationale, critical-thinking contribution to the community dialogue would be to say: “I don’t know what the facts are, but if they are not true then Kline’s allegations are not only scurrilous, but potentially actionable as defamation. However, if the facts are true, then Winters’ conduct broke trust with the students and the school community, potentially violated the Education Code, and he should be disciplined severely and swiftly. And if the facts are true, then Spector’s failure to disavow Winters’ conduct, immediately fire him as campaign manager, and apologize to the community, is deplorable. And again, if the facts are true, Spector’s attack on Kline and other candidates under the circumstances is disgusting.”

    Of course, none of you say that do you? Before you post, try looking in the mirror and asking whether you are contributing to a healthy, honest, and truthful dialogue about making our community a better place to live.

    And to Greenwald specifically, when are you going to drop the daily fiction that you are “reporting”? You are editorializing…blogging…spewing…but certainly not reporting. There is no objective search for the truth or facts here. You are expressing your own personal viewpoint–and you simply look for, and filter, information to support that viewpoint. In this case, asking students who were not in the class what happened in the class, and then suggesting that “this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline,” bears, we should all hope, no resemblance to real journalism and reporting.

  82. Anonymous

    Here are the facts.

    Winters did, in fact, have his students stuffing Spector’s envelopes during instructional class time. That has been reported by numerous students in the class, including Kline’s daughter.

    Greenwald’s “investigation” and “reporting” amounted to asking questions of students who were NOT in the class.

    To their credit, neither Winters nor Spector denied that this event happened–because it did.

    To his great discredit, Winters has not apologized to the students, the school, and the community for his conduct.

    To his even greater discredit, Spector tried to use the opportunity to attack Kline and the other candidates.

    So here are a few questions and observations.

    First, to Greenwald and his cast of commenters, how come you’re “exposing the dark underbelly” when you’re attacking people who don’t agree with you, but when bad (and true) facts are reported about someone you like, it’s “dirty tricks” and “scandalous” reporting? Come on folks, an objective, rationale, critical-thinking contribution to the community dialogue would be to say: “I don’t know what the facts are, but if they are not true then Kline’s allegations are not only scurrilous, but potentially actionable as defamation. However, if the facts are true, then Winters’ conduct broke trust with the students and the school community, potentially violated the Education Code, and he should be disciplined severely and swiftly. And if the facts are true, then Spector’s failure to disavow Winters’ conduct, immediately fire him as campaign manager, and apologize to the community, is deplorable. And again, if the facts are true, Spector’s attack on Kline and other candidates under the circumstances is disgusting.”

    Of course, none of you say that do you? Before you post, try looking in the mirror and asking whether you are contributing to a healthy, honest, and truthful dialogue about making our community a better place to live.

    And to Greenwald specifically, when are you going to drop the daily fiction that you are “reporting”? You are editorializing…blogging…spewing…but certainly not reporting. There is no objective search for the truth or facts here. You are expressing your own personal viewpoint–and you simply look for, and filter, information to support that viewpoint. In this case, asking students who were not in the class what happened in the class, and then suggesting that “this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline,” bears, we should all hope, no resemblance to real journalism and reporting.

  83. Anonymous

    Here are the facts.

    Winters did, in fact, have his students stuffing Spector’s envelopes during instructional class time. That has been reported by numerous students in the class, including Kline’s daughter.

    Greenwald’s “investigation” and “reporting” amounted to asking questions of students who were NOT in the class.

    To their credit, neither Winters nor Spector denied that this event happened–because it did.

    To his great discredit, Winters has not apologized to the students, the school, and the community for his conduct.

    To his even greater discredit, Spector tried to use the opportunity to attack Kline and the other candidates.

    So here are a few questions and observations.

    First, to Greenwald and his cast of commenters, how come you’re “exposing the dark underbelly” when you’re attacking people who don’t agree with you, but when bad (and true) facts are reported about someone you like, it’s “dirty tricks” and “scandalous” reporting? Come on folks, an objective, rationale, critical-thinking contribution to the community dialogue would be to say: “I don’t know what the facts are, but if they are not true then Kline’s allegations are not only scurrilous, but potentially actionable as defamation. However, if the facts are true, then Winters’ conduct broke trust with the students and the school community, potentially violated the Education Code, and he should be disciplined severely and swiftly. And if the facts are true, then Spector’s failure to disavow Winters’ conduct, immediately fire him as campaign manager, and apologize to the community, is deplorable. And again, if the facts are true, Spector’s attack on Kline and other candidates under the circumstances is disgusting.”

    Of course, none of you say that do you? Before you post, try looking in the mirror and asking whether you are contributing to a healthy, honest, and truthful dialogue about making our community a better place to live.

    And to Greenwald specifically, when are you going to drop the daily fiction that you are “reporting”? You are editorializing…blogging…spewing…but certainly not reporting. There is no objective search for the truth or facts here. You are expressing your own personal viewpoint–and you simply look for, and filter, information to support that viewpoint. In this case, asking students who were not in the class what happened in the class, and then suggesting that “this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline,” bears, we should all hope, no resemblance to real journalism and reporting.

  84. Anonymous

    Here are the facts.

    Winters did, in fact, have his students stuffing Spector’s envelopes during instructional class time. That has been reported by numerous students in the class, including Kline’s daughter.

    Greenwald’s “investigation” and “reporting” amounted to asking questions of students who were NOT in the class.

    To their credit, neither Winters nor Spector denied that this event happened–because it did.

    To his great discredit, Winters has not apologized to the students, the school, and the community for his conduct.

    To his even greater discredit, Spector tried to use the opportunity to attack Kline and the other candidates.

    So here are a few questions and observations.

    First, to Greenwald and his cast of commenters, how come you’re “exposing the dark underbelly” when you’re attacking people who don’t agree with you, but when bad (and true) facts are reported about someone you like, it’s “dirty tricks” and “scandalous” reporting? Come on folks, an objective, rationale, critical-thinking contribution to the community dialogue would be to say: “I don’t know what the facts are, but if they are not true then Kline’s allegations are not only scurrilous, but potentially actionable as defamation. However, if the facts are true, then Winters’ conduct broke trust with the students and the school community, potentially violated the Education Code, and he should be disciplined severely and swiftly. And if the facts are true, then Spector’s failure to disavow Winters’ conduct, immediately fire him as campaign manager, and apologize to the community, is deplorable. And again, if the facts are true, Spector’s attack on Kline and other candidates under the circumstances is disgusting.”

    Of course, none of you say that do you? Before you post, try looking in the mirror and asking whether you are contributing to a healthy, honest, and truthful dialogue about making our community a better place to live.

    And to Greenwald specifically, when are you going to drop the daily fiction that you are “reporting”? You are editorializing…blogging…spewing…but certainly not reporting. There is no objective search for the truth or facts here. You are expressing your own personal viewpoint–and you simply look for, and filter, information to support that viewpoint. In this case, asking students who were not in the class what happened in the class, and then suggesting that “this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline,” bears, we should all hope, no resemblance to real journalism and reporting.

  85. Rich Rifkin

    “They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not.”

    This is absurd. Although I had it wrong at first, so I can’t blame others for not getting it, it should be clear that Jeff Hudson did “real fact finding” and did ask Don Winters (and Joe Spector) if the alleged activity took place in his class. Winters did not deny it. If it didn’t happen, of course Don would have said “it never happened.”

    What I was told, late this afternoon, was that “the envelopes were stuffed in his economics class as an exercise in ‘division of labor.’

    While I like Don Winters — I first met him about 1975 or ’76 when he hired me to weed his massive yard; and later he was my junior high basketball coach at Holmes Jr. High — I think he clearly exhibited poor judgment in this case.

  86. Rich Rifkin

    “They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not.”

    This is absurd. Although I had it wrong at first, so I can’t blame others for not getting it, it should be clear that Jeff Hudson did “real fact finding” and did ask Don Winters (and Joe Spector) if the alleged activity took place in his class. Winters did not deny it. If it didn’t happen, of course Don would have said “it never happened.”

    What I was told, late this afternoon, was that “the envelopes were stuffed in his economics class as an exercise in ‘division of labor.’

    While I like Don Winters — I first met him about 1975 or ’76 when he hired me to weed his massive yard; and later he was my junior high basketball coach at Holmes Jr. High — I think he clearly exhibited poor judgment in this case.

  87. Rich Rifkin

    “They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not.”

    This is absurd. Although I had it wrong at first, so I can’t blame others for not getting it, it should be clear that Jeff Hudson did “real fact finding” and did ask Don Winters (and Joe Spector) if the alleged activity took place in his class. Winters did not deny it. If it didn’t happen, of course Don would have said “it never happened.”

    What I was told, late this afternoon, was that “the envelopes were stuffed in his economics class as an exercise in ‘division of labor.’

    While I like Don Winters — I first met him about 1975 or ’76 when he hired me to weed his massive yard; and later he was my junior high basketball coach at Holmes Jr. High — I think he clearly exhibited poor judgment in this case.

  88. Rich Rifkin

    “They don’t do any real fact finding, just regurgitating what they are told without checking if what they are being fed is true or not.”

    This is absurd. Although I had it wrong at first, so I can’t blame others for not getting it, it should be clear that Jeff Hudson did “real fact finding” and did ask Don Winters (and Joe Spector) if the alleged activity took place in his class. Winters did not deny it. If it didn’t happen, of course Don would have said “it never happened.”

    What I was told, late this afternoon, was that “the envelopes were stuffed in his economics class as an exercise in ‘division of labor.’

    While I like Don Winters — I first met him about 1975 or ’76 when he hired me to weed his massive yard; and later he was my junior high basketball coach at Holmes Jr. High — I think he clearly exhibited poor judgment in this case.

  89. High School Govt. Student

    I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity. I am indeed puzzled as to why neither Don nor Joe has denied this. But don’t worry; I will make sure I find out on Monday. I know Mr. Winters wants his candidate to win, and I’m not saying that something like this wouldn’t happen; I’m just saying that, to the best of my knowledge (and I do think myself to be a credible source in this situation), it didn’t happen.

  90. High School Govt. Student

    I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity. I am indeed puzzled as to why neither Don nor Joe has denied this. But don’t worry; I will make sure I find out on Monday. I know Mr. Winters wants his candidate to win, and I’m not saying that something like this wouldn’t happen; I’m just saying that, to the best of my knowledge (and I do think myself to be a credible source in this situation), it didn’t happen.

  91. High School Govt. Student

    I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity. I am indeed puzzled as to why neither Don nor Joe has denied this. But don’t worry; I will make sure I find out on Monday. I know Mr. Winters wants his candidate to win, and I’m not saying that something like this wouldn’t happen; I’m just saying that, to the best of my knowledge (and I do think myself to be a credible source in this situation), it didn’t happen.

  92. High School Govt. Student

    I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity. I am indeed puzzled as to why neither Don nor Joe has denied this. But don’t worry; I will make sure I find out on Monday. I know Mr. Winters wants his candidate to win, and I’m not saying that something like this wouldn’t happen; I’m just saying that, to the best of my knowledge (and I do think myself to be a credible source in this situation), it didn’t happen.

  93. Diogenes

    Diane said…
    So you are saying the Enterprise is bought when they sell a lot of ad space to certain candidates and then endorse them? Is that your logic?

    I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.

    That logic does not hold up at all times for this blog, but this week there are three columns, all short on facts and long on accusations or innuendo, that appear to have been written with the intent of causing political harm to those who have an opposing political viewpoint than DPD. Or perhaps,DPD is attempting to drum up ratings and improved financials. Whatever his intent, I believe he has done great harm to the credibility of the column, and has relegated this blog to the likes of other biased, partial mouthpieces, from whom you must seriously consider the source when determining whether to believe the writings. Further, the political divide and angst created by such writings is not helpful to anyone who actually spent the time to read, consider or has to respond to false allegations. We’d all be much better off spending time worrying about issues and facts, and which candidates will best address the issues. It is not helpful when opponents attack or defend with partial truths, false allegations or attempts to create a frenzy over distractions and non-issues.

  94. Diogenes

    Diane said…
    So you are saying the Enterprise is bought when they sell a lot of ad space to certain candidates and then endorse them? Is that your logic?

    I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.

    That logic does not hold up at all times for this blog, but this week there are three columns, all short on facts and long on accusations or innuendo, that appear to have been written with the intent of causing political harm to those who have an opposing political viewpoint than DPD. Or perhaps,DPD is attempting to drum up ratings and improved financials. Whatever his intent, I believe he has done great harm to the credibility of the column, and has relegated this blog to the likes of other biased, partial mouthpieces, from whom you must seriously consider the source when determining whether to believe the writings. Further, the political divide and angst created by such writings is not helpful to anyone who actually spent the time to read, consider or has to respond to false allegations. We’d all be much better off spending time worrying about issues and facts, and which candidates will best address the issues. It is not helpful when opponents attack or defend with partial truths, false allegations or attempts to create a frenzy over distractions and non-issues.

  95. Diogenes

    Diane said…
    So you are saying the Enterprise is bought when they sell a lot of ad space to certain candidates and then endorse them? Is that your logic?

    I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.

    That logic does not hold up at all times for this blog, but this week there are three columns, all short on facts and long on accusations or innuendo, that appear to have been written with the intent of causing political harm to those who have an opposing political viewpoint than DPD. Or perhaps,DPD is attempting to drum up ratings and improved financials. Whatever his intent, I believe he has done great harm to the credibility of the column, and has relegated this blog to the likes of other biased, partial mouthpieces, from whom you must seriously consider the source when determining whether to believe the writings. Further, the political divide and angst created by such writings is not helpful to anyone who actually spent the time to read, consider or has to respond to false allegations. We’d all be much better off spending time worrying about issues and facts, and which candidates will best address the issues. It is not helpful when opponents attack or defend with partial truths, false allegations or attempts to create a frenzy over distractions and non-issues.

  96. Diogenes

    Diane said…
    So you are saying the Enterprise is bought when they sell a lot of ad space to certain candidates and then endorse them? Is that your logic?

    I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.

    That logic does not hold up at all times for this blog, but this week there are three columns, all short on facts and long on accusations or innuendo, that appear to have been written with the intent of causing political harm to those who have an opposing political viewpoint than DPD. Or perhaps,DPD is attempting to drum up ratings and improved financials. Whatever his intent, I believe he has done great harm to the credibility of the column, and has relegated this blog to the likes of other biased, partial mouthpieces, from whom you must seriously consider the source when determining whether to believe the writings. Further, the political divide and angst created by such writings is not helpful to anyone who actually spent the time to read, consider or has to respond to false allegations. We’d all be much better off spending time worrying about issues and facts, and which candidates will best address the issues. It is not helpful when opponents attack or defend with partial truths, false allegations or attempts to create a frenzy over distractions and non-issues.

  97. davis voter

    An entirely plausible explanation for Don Winters silence is an “understanding” with Principal Crawley that there would only be negative fallout if he got into a public “pissing match” with voter-rejected former school board member BJ Kline . If anyone cared to notice, there was no OFFICIAL statement of wrongdoing that Don would need to address. Offering fodder to The Enterprise in order to inflame passions and polarize the community would not bode well for the 2/3 vote needed to pass Measure Q just weeks before Nov. 6

  98. davis voter

    An entirely plausible explanation for Don Winters silence is an “understanding” with Principal Crawley that there would only be negative fallout if he got into a public “pissing match” with voter-rejected former school board member BJ Kline . If anyone cared to notice, there was no OFFICIAL statement of wrongdoing that Don would need to address. Offering fodder to The Enterprise in order to inflame passions and polarize the community would not bode well for the 2/3 vote needed to pass Measure Q just weeks before Nov. 6

  99. davis voter

    An entirely plausible explanation for Don Winters silence is an “understanding” with Principal Crawley that there would only be negative fallout if he got into a public “pissing match” with voter-rejected former school board member BJ Kline . If anyone cared to notice, there was no OFFICIAL statement of wrongdoing that Don would need to address. Offering fodder to The Enterprise in order to inflame passions and polarize the community would not bode well for the 2/3 vote needed to pass Measure Q just weeks before Nov. 6

  100. davis voter

    An entirely plausible explanation for Don Winters silence is an “understanding” with Principal Crawley that there would only be negative fallout if he got into a public “pissing match” with voter-rejected former school board member BJ Kline . If anyone cared to notice, there was no OFFICIAL statement of wrongdoing that Don would need to address. Offering fodder to The Enterprise in order to inflame passions and polarize the community would not bode well for the 2/3 vote needed to pass Measure Q just weeks before Nov. 6

  101. davis voter

    I would also guess that there is a administration/Davis Teachers Union understanding about immediately “going public” We all remember the official information wall and the public frustration concerning the official details of the DHS student’s assembly presentation, suspension, teacher “quitting”, union response etc.

  102. davis voter

    I would also guess that there is a administration/Davis Teachers Union understanding about immediately “going public” We all remember the official information wall and the public frustration concerning the official details of the DHS student’s assembly presentation, suspension, teacher “quitting”, union response etc.

  103. davis voter

    I would also guess that there is a administration/Davis Teachers Union understanding about immediately “going public” We all remember the official information wall and the public frustration concerning the official details of the DHS student’s assembly presentation, suspension, teacher “quitting”, union response etc.

  104. davis voter

    I would also guess that there is a administration/Davis Teachers Union understanding about immediately “going public” We all remember the official information wall and the public frustration concerning the official details of the DHS student’s assembly presentation, suspension, teacher “quitting”, union response etc.

  105. Rich Rifkin

    “I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.”

    I don’t believe this is true. I don’t think David Greenwald slants his articles one way or the other because of his personal pecuniary interests. I think he slants them the way he does because of his strong and (in a sense) partisan political bias.

    If a person David disliked politically — say Ted Puntillo, for example — had ads running on the Vanguard front page, I seriously doubt that David would stop disparaging Ted if the opportunity arose. Only David knows this for sure. But my sense in reading his pieces for some time is that advancing his political agenda trumps money or other considerations.

  106. Rich Rifkin

    “I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.”

    I don’t believe this is true. I don’t think David Greenwald slants his articles one way or the other because of his personal pecuniary interests. I think he slants them the way he does because of his strong and (in a sense) partisan political bias.

    If a person David disliked politically — say Ted Puntillo, for example — had ads running on the Vanguard front page, I seriously doubt that David would stop disparaging Ted if the opportunity arose. Only David knows this for sure. But my sense in reading his pieces for some time is that advancing his political agenda trumps money or other considerations.

  107. Rich Rifkin

    “I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.”

    I don’t believe this is true. I don’t think David Greenwald slants his articles one way or the other because of his personal pecuniary interests. I think he slants them the way he does because of his strong and (in a sense) partisan political bias.

    If a person David disliked politically — say Ted Puntillo, for example — had ads running on the Vanguard front page, I seriously doubt that David would stop disparaging Ted if the opportunity arose. Only David knows this for sure. But my sense in reading his pieces for some time is that advancing his political agenda trumps money or other considerations.

  108. Rich Rifkin

    “I think the logic is that DPD appears to have been influenced to write poorly researched and founded blogs (at best) and/or false blogs (at worst) for someone who contributed to his financial well being, not different than what he, and many people following his lead, were accusing Saylor of doing.”

    I don’t believe this is true. I don’t think David Greenwald slants his articles one way or the other because of his personal pecuniary interests. I think he slants them the way he does because of his strong and (in a sense) partisan political bias.

    If a person David disliked politically — say Ted Puntillo, for example — had ads running on the Vanguard front page, I seriously doubt that David would stop disparaging Ted if the opportunity arose. Only David knows this for sure. But my sense in reading his pieces for some time is that advancing his political agenda trumps money or other considerations.

  109. 無名 - wu ming

    having just read the article, i have to say that it’s long on insinuations but quite short on specifics, and strikes me as the same sort of hit peice reporting as the “UCD students bought off with pizza coupons” mountan-out-of-molehill story during the measure x vote in 2005.

    nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.

    what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.

    either way, the article hardly informs. for such a big story on the front page right before an election, one would think professional journalists and editors would have somewhat higher standards with regards to writing well-researched, informative articles.

    color me unimpressed.

    (disclosure: i also took a government class with don winters once upon a time)

  110. 無名 - wu ming

    having just read the article, i have to say that it’s long on insinuations but quite short on specifics, and strikes me as the same sort of hit peice reporting as the “UCD students bought off with pizza coupons” mountan-out-of-molehill story during the measure x vote in 2005.

    nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.

    what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.

    either way, the article hardly informs. for such a big story on the front page right before an election, one would think professional journalists and editors would have somewhat higher standards with regards to writing well-researched, informative articles.

    color me unimpressed.

    (disclosure: i also took a government class with don winters once upon a time)

  111. 無名 - wu ming

    having just read the article, i have to say that it’s long on insinuations but quite short on specifics, and strikes me as the same sort of hit peice reporting as the “UCD students bought off with pizza coupons” mountan-out-of-molehill story during the measure x vote in 2005.

    nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.

    what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.

    either way, the article hardly informs. for such a big story on the front page right before an election, one would think professional journalists and editors would have somewhat higher standards with regards to writing well-researched, informative articles.

    color me unimpressed.

    (disclosure: i also took a government class with don winters once upon a time)

  112. 無名 - wu ming

    having just read the article, i have to say that it’s long on insinuations but quite short on specifics, and strikes me as the same sort of hit peice reporting as the “UCD students bought off with pizza coupons” mountan-out-of-molehill story during the measure x vote in 2005.

    nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.

    what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.

    either way, the article hardly informs. for such a big story on the front page right before an election, one would think professional journalists and editors would have somewhat higher standards with regards to writing well-researched, informative articles.

    color me unimpressed.

    (disclosure: i also took a government class with don winters once upon a time)

  113. Anonymous

    “…nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    I read where Jeff Hudson, the author of the article in question, once remarked to DPD that he envied the amount of space that DPD has in this blog to work with.
    Hudson just didn’t have enough space in which to convey all the information cited as lacking above…perhaps?

  114. Anonymous

    “…nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    I read where Jeff Hudson, the author of the article in question, once remarked to DPD that he envied the amount of space that DPD has in this blog to work with.
    Hudson just didn’t have enough space in which to convey all the information cited as lacking above…perhaps?

  115. Anonymous

    “…nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    I read where Jeff Hudson, the author of the article in question, once remarked to DPD that he envied the amount of space that DPD has in this blog to work with.
    Hudson just didn’t have enough space in which to convey all the information cited as lacking above…perhaps?

  116. Anonymous

    “…nothing beyond one vague sentence on “stuffing envelopes during class time” by kline. no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?). no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    I read where Jeff Hudson, the author of the article in question, once remarked to DPD that he envied the amount of space that DPD has in this blog to work with.
    Hudson just didn’t have enough space in which to convey all the information cited as lacking above…perhaps?

  117. Anonymous

    wu ming,

    you have it all wrong. my son was in the classroom.

    “no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?).”

    it was in my son’s economics class, tuaght by mr winters. because of his status as a student in mr winters class, he did not want to be named as a source. one other student, also afraid of retribution, confirmed that the economics students were told to stuff envelopes for the division of labor assignment. all fear retribution from mr. winters.

    “no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    mr. winters was asked if this event in his classroom took place by the reporter. mr. winters did not refute the allegation. that confirms to me the students stories are true. my son would have no reason to lie.

    “what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.”

    wu ming, your last sentence is the one which makes sense. mr. winters was accused of doing something wrong in his classroom. he could have denied it to the reporter, if it did not happen. he didn’t deny anything. that tells the whole story.

  118. Anonymous

    wu ming,

    you have it all wrong. my son was in the classroom.

    “no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?).”

    it was in my son’s economics class, tuaght by mr winters. because of his status as a student in mr winters class, he did not want to be named as a source. one other student, also afraid of retribution, confirmed that the economics students were told to stuff envelopes for the division of labor assignment. all fear retribution from mr. winters.

    “no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    mr. winters was asked if this event in his classroom took place by the reporter. mr. winters did not refute the allegation. that confirms to me the students stories are true. my son would have no reason to lie.

    “what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.”

    wu ming, your last sentence is the one which makes sense. mr. winters was accused of doing something wrong in his classroom. he could have denied it to the reporter, if it did not happen. he didn’t deny anything. that tells the whole story.

  119. Anonymous

    wu ming,

    you have it all wrong. my son was in the classroom.

    “no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?).”

    it was in my son’s economics class, tuaght by mr winters. because of his status as a student in mr winters class, he did not want to be named as a source. one other student, also afraid of retribution, confirmed that the economics students were told to stuff envelopes for the division of labor assignment. all fear retribution from mr. winters.

    “no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    mr. winters was asked if this event in his classroom took place by the reporter. mr. winters did not refute the allegation. that confirms to me the students stories are true. my son would have no reason to lie.

    “what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.”

    wu ming, your last sentence is the one which makes sense. mr. winters was accused of doing something wrong in his classroom. he could have denied it to the reporter, if it did not happen. he didn’t deny anything. that tells the whole story.

  120. Anonymous

    wu ming,

    you have it all wrong. my son was in the classroom.

    “no mention of what class it was (if kline knew, why wouldn’t he make an exact, refutable statement?).”

    it was in my son’s economics class, tuaght by mr winters. because of his status as a student in mr winters class, he did not want to be named as a source. one other student, also afraid of retribution, confirmed that the economics students were told to stuff envelopes for the division of labor assignment. all fear retribution from mr. winters.

    “no interviews with any witnesses (ie. students) in said undisclosed class. no account of the event itself, really.”

    mr. winters was asked if this event in his classroom took place by the reporter. mr. winters did not refute the allegation. that confirms to me the students stories are true. my son would have no reason to lie.

    “what am i to make of this? you’d think if you had nailed someone, you’d be specific about the charges. and you’d think if you were being falsely accused, you’d come out and deny it directly.”

    wu ming, your last sentence is the one which makes sense. mr. winters was accused of doing something wrong in his classroom. he could have denied it to the reporter, if it did not happen. he didn’t deny anything. that tells the whole story.

  121. Anonymous

    Funny how Diogenes offers so much criticism and attacks on DPD and yet he / she / ? continues to come back to the blog for more.

    Diogenes? Are you attempting to live up to your name?

    “Diogenes, himself, was the master at showing disrespect and throwing sarcasm at others. As a result, he came to be referred to simply as ‘the dog.’

    Diogenes died about 320 B.C.E, having lived for nine angry decades.

    His eccentricity and extreme antisocial behaviour proved to be the downfall of Cynicsm. The belief fell into disrepute soon after his passing. Within time it had disappeared all together.

    All that is left of it in our modern world is the word ‘cynic’ which is used unfavourably to describe a person who is disposed to find fault with others, an unwitting imitator of the father of cynicism, Diogenes.”

  122. Anonymous

    Funny how Diogenes offers so much criticism and attacks on DPD and yet he / she / ? continues to come back to the blog for more.

    Diogenes? Are you attempting to live up to your name?

    “Diogenes, himself, was the master at showing disrespect and throwing sarcasm at others. As a result, he came to be referred to simply as ‘the dog.’

    Diogenes died about 320 B.C.E, having lived for nine angry decades.

    His eccentricity and extreme antisocial behaviour proved to be the downfall of Cynicsm. The belief fell into disrepute soon after his passing. Within time it had disappeared all together.

    All that is left of it in our modern world is the word ‘cynic’ which is used unfavourably to describe a person who is disposed to find fault with others, an unwitting imitator of the father of cynicism, Diogenes.”

  123. Anonymous

    Funny how Diogenes offers so much criticism and attacks on DPD and yet he / she / ? continues to come back to the blog for more.

    Diogenes? Are you attempting to live up to your name?

    “Diogenes, himself, was the master at showing disrespect and throwing sarcasm at others. As a result, he came to be referred to simply as ‘the dog.’

    Diogenes died about 320 B.C.E, having lived for nine angry decades.

    His eccentricity and extreme antisocial behaviour proved to be the downfall of Cynicsm. The belief fell into disrepute soon after his passing. Within time it had disappeared all together.

    All that is left of it in our modern world is the word ‘cynic’ which is used unfavourably to describe a person who is disposed to find fault with others, an unwitting imitator of the father of cynicism, Diogenes.”

  124. Anonymous

    Funny how Diogenes offers so much criticism and attacks on DPD and yet he / she / ? continues to come back to the blog for more.

    Diogenes? Are you attempting to live up to your name?

    “Diogenes, himself, was the master at showing disrespect and throwing sarcasm at others. As a result, he came to be referred to simply as ‘the dog.’

    Diogenes died about 320 B.C.E, having lived for nine angry decades.

    His eccentricity and extreme antisocial behaviour proved to be the downfall of Cynicsm. The belief fell into disrepute soon after his passing. Within time it had disappeared all together.

    All that is left of it in our modern world is the word ‘cynic’ which is used unfavourably to describe a person who is disposed to find fault with others, an unwitting imitator of the father of cynicism, Diogenes.”

  125. Anonymous

    Don Winters is a Government teacher and a campaign manager and doesn’t understand the difference between the two? Even if it is during lunch its a bad idea to enlist students to stuff envelopes for a school board candidate whose campaign you are running, especially for a candidate who works for the district. Then when it comes out to not make a clear apology or disavowal just keeps a bad story alive. If Don doesn’t want to do it for whatever reason then Joe should issue the statement. As we learned from Watergate and lots of scandals since it isn’t the error that gets you into trouble its the coverup. While I support Joe Spector for school board I think the incident and the response to it is both amateurish and inadequate. It does call into question the quality of Government education at Davis High.

    Ron Glick

  126. Anonymous

    Don Winters is a Government teacher and a campaign manager and doesn’t understand the difference between the two? Even if it is during lunch its a bad idea to enlist students to stuff envelopes for a school board candidate whose campaign you are running, especially for a candidate who works for the district. Then when it comes out to not make a clear apology or disavowal just keeps a bad story alive. If Don doesn’t want to do it for whatever reason then Joe should issue the statement. As we learned from Watergate and lots of scandals since it isn’t the error that gets you into trouble its the coverup. While I support Joe Spector for school board I think the incident and the response to it is both amateurish and inadequate. It does call into question the quality of Government education at Davis High.

    Ron Glick

  127. Anonymous

    Don Winters is a Government teacher and a campaign manager and doesn’t understand the difference between the two? Even if it is during lunch its a bad idea to enlist students to stuff envelopes for a school board candidate whose campaign you are running, especially for a candidate who works for the district. Then when it comes out to not make a clear apology or disavowal just keeps a bad story alive. If Don doesn’t want to do it for whatever reason then Joe should issue the statement. As we learned from Watergate and lots of scandals since it isn’t the error that gets you into trouble its the coverup. While I support Joe Spector for school board I think the incident and the response to it is both amateurish and inadequate. It does call into question the quality of Government education at Davis High.

    Ron Glick

  128. Anonymous

    Don Winters is a Government teacher and a campaign manager and doesn’t understand the difference between the two? Even if it is during lunch its a bad idea to enlist students to stuff envelopes for a school board candidate whose campaign you are running, especially for a candidate who works for the district. Then when it comes out to not make a clear apology or disavowal just keeps a bad story alive. If Don doesn’t want to do it for whatever reason then Joe should issue the statement. As we learned from Watergate and lots of scandals since it isn’t the error that gets you into trouble its the coverup. While I support Joe Spector for school board I think the incident and the response to it is both amateurish and inadequate. It does call into question the quality of Government education at Davis High.

    Ron Glick

  129. School Board Race Observer

    Anonymous father at 1:20 pm,

    Just because Mr. Winters did not come out and deny anything (yet) does not mean that he is guilty as charged by the children whose parents are supporters of his opponent(s).

    We do live in a country where people are innocent until proven guilty. It’s quite sad that parents are the ones flaming the fire behind their children in this case.

    If someone was given an accusation out of the blue and asked to respond, because they (the reporter) had a deadline to meet in order to make the front page, above the fold story in time, then I’m not so sure that I would be so quick to respond either.

    The Davis Enterprise was careless as was the editor for allowing this to happen.

    It has not changed who I’m voting for in this election. I’m voting for Spector and Schelen.

  130. School Board Race Observer

    Anonymous father at 1:20 pm,

    Just because Mr. Winters did not come out and deny anything (yet) does not mean that he is guilty as charged by the children whose parents are supporters of his opponent(s).

    We do live in a country where people are innocent until proven guilty. It’s quite sad that parents are the ones flaming the fire behind their children in this case.

    If someone was given an accusation out of the blue and asked to respond, because they (the reporter) had a deadline to meet in order to make the front page, above the fold story in time, then I’m not so sure that I would be so quick to respond either.

    The Davis Enterprise was careless as was the editor for allowing this to happen.

    It has not changed who I’m voting for in this election. I’m voting for Spector and Schelen.

  131. School Board Race Observer

    Anonymous father at 1:20 pm,

    Just because Mr. Winters did not come out and deny anything (yet) does not mean that he is guilty as charged by the children whose parents are supporters of his opponent(s).

    We do live in a country where people are innocent until proven guilty. It’s quite sad that parents are the ones flaming the fire behind their children in this case.

    If someone was given an accusation out of the blue and asked to respond, because they (the reporter) had a deadline to meet in order to make the front page, above the fold story in time, then I’m not so sure that I would be so quick to respond either.

    The Davis Enterprise was careless as was the editor for allowing this to happen.

    It has not changed who I’m voting for in this election. I’m voting for Spector and Schelen.

  132. School Board Race Observer

    Anonymous father at 1:20 pm,

    Just because Mr. Winters did not come out and deny anything (yet) does not mean that he is guilty as charged by the children whose parents are supporters of his opponent(s).

    We do live in a country where people are innocent until proven guilty. It’s quite sad that parents are the ones flaming the fire behind their children in this case.

    If someone was given an accusation out of the blue and asked to respond, because they (the reporter) had a deadline to meet in order to make the front page, above the fold story in time, then I’m not so sure that I would be so quick to respond either.

    The Davis Enterprise was careless as was the editor for allowing this to happen.

    It has not changed who I’m voting for in this election. I’m voting for Spector and Schelen.

  133. Anonymous

    I’ve heard from kids that Measure Q material is being assembled and passed around campus. The principal needs to make sure this gets coverage in the Enterprise too.

    Debbie Davis…hurry, here’s your next story. Oh wait, you support it so you won’t have a reporter write a hit piece on it.

  134. Anonymous

    I’ve heard from kids that Measure Q material is being assembled and passed around campus. The principal needs to make sure this gets coverage in the Enterprise too.

    Debbie Davis…hurry, here’s your next story. Oh wait, you support it so you won’t have a reporter write a hit piece on it.

  135. Anonymous

    I’ve heard from kids that Measure Q material is being assembled and passed around campus. The principal needs to make sure this gets coverage in the Enterprise too.

    Debbie Davis…hurry, here’s your next story. Oh wait, you support it so you won’t have a reporter write a hit piece on it.

  136. Anonymous

    I’ve heard from kids that Measure Q material is being assembled and passed around campus. The principal needs to make sure this gets coverage in the Enterprise too.

    Debbie Davis…hurry, here’s your next story. Oh wait, you support it so you won’t have a reporter write a hit piece on it.

  137. Patience

    Today is Sunday, October 21, 2007 and the sleazy story in the Enterprise just ran on Friday, October 19, 2007 (about 48 hours ago).

    The Enterprise gets all of its stories in line by Thursday for the Friday and Sunday papers.

    People are on this blog complaining that teacher Don Winters has not come out with a statement yet, or that the school board candidate Joe Spector has not said anything. Well, he was at Farmer’s Market smiling and greeting people.

    Impatience, impatience, impatience … The Enterprise knew this would happen and you are all falling for it.

    Just be patient and give them time to respond.

    We live in such a “microwave” community where we want everything NOW. It doesn’t say much for the second most educated community.

  138. Patience

    Today is Sunday, October 21, 2007 and the sleazy story in the Enterprise just ran on Friday, October 19, 2007 (about 48 hours ago).

    The Enterprise gets all of its stories in line by Thursday for the Friday and Sunday papers.

    People are on this blog complaining that teacher Don Winters has not come out with a statement yet, or that the school board candidate Joe Spector has not said anything. Well, he was at Farmer’s Market smiling and greeting people.

    Impatience, impatience, impatience … The Enterprise knew this would happen and you are all falling for it.

    Just be patient and give them time to respond.

    We live in such a “microwave” community where we want everything NOW. It doesn’t say much for the second most educated community.

  139. Patience

    Today is Sunday, October 21, 2007 and the sleazy story in the Enterprise just ran on Friday, October 19, 2007 (about 48 hours ago).

    The Enterprise gets all of its stories in line by Thursday for the Friday and Sunday papers.

    People are on this blog complaining that teacher Don Winters has not come out with a statement yet, or that the school board candidate Joe Spector has not said anything. Well, he was at Farmer’s Market smiling and greeting people.

    Impatience, impatience, impatience … The Enterprise knew this would happen and you are all falling for it.

    Just be patient and give them time to respond.

    We live in such a “microwave” community where we want everything NOW. It doesn’t say much for the second most educated community.

  140. Patience

    Today is Sunday, October 21, 2007 and the sleazy story in the Enterprise just ran on Friday, October 19, 2007 (about 48 hours ago).

    The Enterprise gets all of its stories in line by Thursday for the Friday and Sunday papers.

    People are on this blog complaining that teacher Don Winters has not come out with a statement yet, or that the school board candidate Joe Spector has not said anything. Well, he was at Farmer’s Market smiling and greeting people.

    Impatience, impatience, impatience … The Enterprise knew this would happen and you are all falling for it.

    Just be patient and give them time to respond.

    We live in such a “microwave” community where we want everything NOW. It doesn’t say much for the second most educated community.

  141. Yolo County Democrat

    Let’s connect the dots here folks. Follow the money and consider the source, that is what we learned from Nixon and Watergate. The money in this school board campaign is flowing from lobbyists, lawyers, land developers and out-of-town special interest groups to Candidate Harris. Now Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats is bringing charges against Mr. Winters-Joe Spector’s campaign manager. Who was the Vice Chair of the Yolo County Democratic Central Committee which helped defeat candidate Kline? You guessed it….Don Winters! Does that connect the dots for you well enough?

  142. Yolo County Democrat

    Let’s connect the dots here folks. Follow the money and consider the source, that is what we learned from Nixon and Watergate. The money in this school board campaign is flowing from lobbyists, lawyers, land developers and out-of-town special interest groups to Candidate Harris. Now Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats is bringing charges against Mr. Winters-Joe Spector’s campaign manager. Who was the Vice Chair of the Yolo County Democratic Central Committee which helped defeat candidate Kline? You guessed it….Don Winters! Does that connect the dots for you well enough?

  143. Yolo County Democrat

    Let’s connect the dots here folks. Follow the money and consider the source, that is what we learned from Nixon and Watergate. The money in this school board campaign is flowing from lobbyists, lawyers, land developers and out-of-town special interest groups to Candidate Harris. Now Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats is bringing charges against Mr. Winters-Joe Spector’s campaign manager. Who was the Vice Chair of the Yolo County Democratic Central Committee which helped defeat candidate Kline? You guessed it….Don Winters! Does that connect the dots for you well enough?

  144. Yolo County Democrat

    Let’s connect the dots here folks. Follow the money and consider the source, that is what we learned from Nixon and Watergate. The money in this school board campaign is flowing from lobbyists, lawyers, land developers and out-of-town special interest groups to Candidate Harris. Now Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats is bringing charges against Mr. Winters-Joe Spector’s campaign manager. Who was the Vice Chair of the Yolo County Democratic Central Committee which helped defeat candidate Kline? You guessed it….Don Winters! Does that connect the dots for you well enough?

  145. Anonymous

    “Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats…”

    Really? The Yolo County Democrats opposed a candidate in a non-partisan race? Do you have evidence of this?

  146. Anonymous

    “Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats…”

    Really? The Yolo County Democrats opposed a candidate in a non-partisan race? Do you have evidence of this?

  147. Anonymous

    “Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats…”

    Really? The Yolo County Democrats opposed a candidate in a non-partisan race? Do you have evidence of this?

  148. Anonymous

    “Mr. Kline, a former school board member who was put out to political retirement pasture in the last BOE race by the Yolo County Democrats…”

    Really? The Yolo County Democrats opposed a candidate in a non-partisan race? Do you have evidence of this?

  149. Another Yolo County Democrat

    Anonymous 3:29 PM,

    Yolo County Democrat doesn’t have to have evidence since the facts speak for themselves: Kline was voted out of office.

    Every single race is partisan. It’s the way that Republicans have been getting their anti-choice candidates into office. They start them out on the school board and from they begin their trail of destruction.

    Yolo County Democrat, thank you for connecting the dots. I had thought about this too and wondered if voters would remember.

  150. Another Yolo County Democrat

    Anonymous 3:29 PM,

    Yolo County Democrat doesn’t have to have evidence since the facts speak for themselves: Kline was voted out of office.

    Every single race is partisan. It’s the way that Republicans have been getting their anti-choice candidates into office. They start them out on the school board and from they begin their trail of destruction.

    Yolo County Democrat, thank you for connecting the dots. I had thought about this too and wondered if voters would remember.

  151. Another Yolo County Democrat

    Anonymous 3:29 PM,

    Yolo County Democrat doesn’t have to have evidence since the facts speak for themselves: Kline was voted out of office.

    Every single race is partisan. It’s the way that Republicans have been getting their anti-choice candidates into office. They start them out on the school board and from they begin their trail of destruction.

    Yolo County Democrat, thank you for connecting the dots. I had thought about this too and wondered if voters would remember.

  152. Another Yolo County Democrat

    Anonymous 3:29 PM,

    Yolo County Democrat doesn’t have to have evidence since the facts speak for themselves: Kline was voted out of office.

    Every single race is partisan. It’s the way that Republicans have been getting their anti-choice candidates into office. They start them out on the school board and from they begin their trail of destruction.

    Yolo County Democrat, thank you for connecting the dots. I had thought about this too and wondered if voters would remember.

  153. Robin

    I am generally skeptical of what I read in The Enterprise, and I find many of the pieces on the Vanguard illuminating. But I am very disappointed in how poorly this Vanguard “article” was (or was not) fact-checked.

    One student, in one of Mr. Winters’ Gov classes, says there was no envelope stuffing in that class (but he has no way of knowing what went on in other classes). Based on the posts by Anon 10/21 1:20 pm and by Anon 10/20 11:57 am, at least 3 separate students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class have verified that envelope stuffing took place in that class.

    Has any student in that Econ class denied that the envelope stuffing took place? Are there any other facts that dispute the story in The Enterprise?

  154. Robin

    I am generally skeptical of what I read in The Enterprise, and I find many of the pieces on the Vanguard illuminating. But I am very disappointed in how poorly this Vanguard “article” was (or was not) fact-checked.

    One student, in one of Mr. Winters’ Gov classes, says there was no envelope stuffing in that class (but he has no way of knowing what went on in other classes). Based on the posts by Anon 10/21 1:20 pm and by Anon 10/20 11:57 am, at least 3 separate students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class have verified that envelope stuffing took place in that class.

    Has any student in that Econ class denied that the envelope stuffing took place? Are there any other facts that dispute the story in The Enterprise?

  155. Robin

    I am generally skeptical of what I read in The Enterprise, and I find many of the pieces on the Vanguard illuminating. But I am very disappointed in how poorly this Vanguard “article” was (or was not) fact-checked.

    One student, in one of Mr. Winters’ Gov classes, says there was no envelope stuffing in that class (but he has no way of knowing what went on in other classes). Based on the posts by Anon 10/21 1:20 pm and by Anon 10/20 11:57 am, at least 3 separate students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class have verified that envelope stuffing took place in that class.

    Has any student in that Econ class denied that the envelope stuffing took place? Are there any other facts that dispute the story in The Enterprise?

  156. Robin

    I am generally skeptical of what I read in The Enterprise, and I find many of the pieces on the Vanguard illuminating. But I am very disappointed in how poorly this Vanguard “article” was (or was not) fact-checked.

    One student, in one of Mr. Winters’ Gov classes, says there was no envelope stuffing in that class (but he has no way of knowing what went on in other classes). Based on the posts by Anon 10/21 1:20 pm and by Anon 10/20 11:57 am, at least 3 separate students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class have verified that envelope stuffing took place in that class.

    Has any student in that Econ class denied that the envelope stuffing took place? Are there any other facts that dispute the story in The Enterprise?

  157. Mary

    Robin,

    Without knowing who the students are in any of the classes we really are only left to know that the story reported in the Enterprise is not complete.

    From what I read in the Vanguard story there are a lot of unanswered questions. He did not come to any conclusions other than to say that

    “It would appear that political activity during lunch time may be considered by the district to be different than political activity during actual class time.

    In any case, this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline that were reported in the Davis Enterprise.”

    I read the statement to mean that we do not have all of the facts. It’s interesting how people draw conclusions when more questions are raised.

    I tend to agree with Patience who posted at 2:03 p.m. today. It seems that we want all of the answers today when the story only broke approximately 48-hours ago.

  158. Mary

    Robin,

    Without knowing who the students are in any of the classes we really are only left to know that the story reported in the Enterprise is not complete.

    From what I read in the Vanguard story there are a lot of unanswered questions. He did not come to any conclusions other than to say that

    “It would appear that political activity during lunch time may be considered by the district to be different than political activity during actual class time.

    In any case, this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline that were reported in the Davis Enterprise.”

    I read the statement to mean that we do not have all of the facts. It’s interesting how people draw conclusions when more questions are raised.

    I tend to agree with Patience who posted at 2:03 p.m. today. It seems that we want all of the answers today when the story only broke approximately 48-hours ago.

  159. Mary

    Robin,

    Without knowing who the students are in any of the classes we really are only left to know that the story reported in the Enterprise is not complete.

    From what I read in the Vanguard story there are a lot of unanswered questions. He did not come to any conclusions other than to say that

    “It would appear that political activity during lunch time may be considered by the district to be different than political activity during actual class time.

    In any case, this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline that were reported in the Davis Enterprise.”

    I read the statement to mean that we do not have all of the facts. It’s interesting how people draw conclusions when more questions are raised.

    I tend to agree with Patience who posted at 2:03 p.m. today. It seems that we want all of the answers today when the story only broke approximately 48-hours ago.

  160. Mary

    Robin,

    Without knowing who the students are in any of the classes we really are only left to know that the story reported in the Enterprise is not complete.

    From what I read in the Vanguard story there are a lot of unanswered questions. He did not come to any conclusions other than to say that

    “It would appear that political activity during lunch time may be considered by the district to be different than political activity during actual class time.

    In any case, this new discovery casts some doubts on the charges made by B.J. Kline that were reported in the Davis Enterprise.”

    I read the statement to mean that we do not have all of the facts. It’s interesting how people draw conclusions when more questions are raised.

    I tend to agree with Patience who posted at 2:03 p.m. today. It seems that we want all of the answers today when the story only broke approximately 48-hours ago.

  161. davis voter

    This attack on Don Winters by BJ Kline(a Harris supporter?) certainly has the “smell” of the Harris campaign about it. Lack of knowledge about school issues while attempting to promote non-education issues(“green” candidate?) an overbearing arrogance and sense of entitlement along with overly agressive campaign rhetoric ill-suited for a school board race are the hallmarks of the Harris campaign for School Board.

  162. davis voter

    This attack on Don Winters by BJ Kline(a Harris supporter?) certainly has the “smell” of the Harris campaign about it. Lack of knowledge about school issues while attempting to promote non-education issues(“green” candidate?) an overbearing arrogance and sense of entitlement along with overly agressive campaign rhetoric ill-suited for a school board race are the hallmarks of the Harris campaign for School Board.

  163. davis voter

    This attack on Don Winters by BJ Kline(a Harris supporter?) certainly has the “smell” of the Harris campaign about it. Lack of knowledge about school issues while attempting to promote non-education issues(“green” candidate?) an overbearing arrogance and sense of entitlement along with overly agressive campaign rhetoric ill-suited for a school board race are the hallmarks of the Harris campaign for School Board.

  164. davis voter

    This attack on Don Winters by BJ Kline(a Harris supporter?) certainly has the “smell” of the Harris campaign about it. Lack of knowledge about school issues while attempting to promote non-education issues(“green” candidate?) an overbearing arrogance and sense of entitlement along with overly agressive campaign rhetoric ill-suited for a school board race are the hallmarks of the Harris campaign for School Board.

  165. Robin

    According to DPD’s article, “students” claimed the in-class envelope stuffing never happened.

    Did any students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class make this claim?

    Are any of kids DPD interviewed students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class?

  166. Robin

    According to DPD’s article, “students” claimed the in-class envelope stuffing never happened.

    Did any students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class make this claim?

    Are any of kids DPD interviewed students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class?

  167. Robin

    According to DPD’s article, “students” claimed the in-class envelope stuffing never happened.

    Did any students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class make this claim?

    Are any of kids DPD interviewed students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class?

  168. Robin

    According to DPD’s article, “students” claimed the in-class envelope stuffing never happened.

    Did any students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class make this claim?

    Are any of kids DPD interviewed students in Mr. Winters’ morning Econ class?

  169. Anonymous

    My GUESS is that Don Winters MAY have informed his Econ students,during class time, that there would be voluntary envelope stuffing for candidate Spector during the lunch hour at a later date. Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.

  170. Anonymous

    My GUESS is that Don Winters MAY have informed his Econ students,during class time, that there would be voluntary envelope stuffing for candidate Spector during the lunch hour at a later date. Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.

  171. Anonymous

    My GUESS is that Don Winters MAY have informed his Econ students,during class time, that there would be voluntary envelope stuffing for candidate Spector during the lunch hour at a later date. Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.

  172. Anonymous

    My GUESS is that Don Winters MAY have informed his Econ students,during class time, that there would be voluntary envelope stuffing for candidate Spector during the lunch hour at a later date. Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.

  173. Anonymous

    “Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.”

    Kline’s daughter is also a student in Winters Economics class.

  174. Anonymous

    “Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.”

    Kline’s daughter is also a student in Winters Economics class.

  175. Anonymous

    “Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.”

    Kline’s daughter is also a student in Winters Economics class.

  176. Anonymous

    “Obviously, the activity was not sprung on the class as an in-class assignment as Kline had the time to report it to Crawley and for Crawley to intervene.”

    Kline’s daughter is also a student in Winters Economics class.

  177. Anonymous

    I’m guessing Don Winters is aware of this blog, and is capable of posting here. He could clear this up in a minute, but chooses not to. That reflects poorly on him, and is a disservice to the Spector campaign.

  178. Anonymous

    I’m guessing Don Winters is aware of this blog, and is capable of posting here. He could clear this up in a minute, but chooses not to. That reflects poorly on him, and is a disservice to the Spector campaign.

  179. Anonymous

    I’m guessing Don Winters is aware of this blog, and is capable of posting here. He could clear this up in a minute, but chooses not to. That reflects poorly on him, and is a disservice to the Spector campaign.

  180. Anonymous

    I’m guessing Don Winters is aware of this blog, and is capable of posting here. He could clear this up in a minute, but chooses not to. That reflects poorly on him, and is a disservice to the Spector campaign.

  181. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

  182. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

  183. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

  184. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

  185. darnell

    Don Shor said “Sigh. This whole thread has become totally pointless. Nothing is provable, leading to endless speculation.”

    Thank you! I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this. I don’t get the insinuation so I guess that means I am not apart of the in crowd.

  186. darnell

    Don Shor said “Sigh. This whole thread has become totally pointless. Nothing is provable, leading to endless speculation.”

    Thank you! I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this. I don’t get the insinuation so I guess that means I am not apart of the in crowd.

  187. darnell

    Don Shor said “Sigh. This whole thread has become totally pointless. Nothing is provable, leading to endless speculation.”

    Thank you! I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this. I don’t get the insinuation so I guess that means I am not apart of the in crowd.

  188. darnell

    Don Shor said “Sigh. This whole thread has become totally pointless. Nothing is provable, leading to endless speculation.”

    Thank you! I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this. I don’t get the insinuation so I guess that means I am not apart of the in crowd.

  189. disappointed davis voter

    I am new to Davis and don’t know the players in this drama personally. Before this incident, I was planning on voting for Spector and Schelen. I will now be voting for Schelen and Lovenburg.

    If Mr. Spector had any hope of winning this election, his chances are now likely shot. He should have said he did not support happened in his campaign manager’s classroom. That would have made sense and showed courage.

    Unfortunately, he comes across as a childish twit when he attacks Kline for exposing what happened: “I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Having your campaign manager assign his students to work on your behalf during class time is unethical, if not illegal. Joe, you should speak out against such misbehavior, not attack the messenger.

    Kline is not working for Mrs Lovenburg. He has no position in the Lovenburg campaign. Why would Spector stoop so low as to presume that Kline was acting on her behalf and not on behalf of proper classroom behavior.

    It’s sad Spector doesn’t understand that what happened in that Econ classroom was wrong. It was not “about the broad support that he is getting from students.” That’s almost a Nixonian response.

    It’s sad Spector has tried to deflect this exposure of his own lack of ethics in this race by attacking one other candidate, Richard Harris, who had nothing to do with the envelope stuffing incident in the Econ class at Davis High. That backhanded swipe at Harris shows to me that Spector lacks the character to serve on the school board for Davis.

  190. disappointed davis voter

    I am new to Davis and don’t know the players in this drama personally. Before this incident, I was planning on voting for Spector and Schelen. I will now be voting for Schelen and Lovenburg.

    If Mr. Spector had any hope of winning this election, his chances are now likely shot. He should have said he did not support happened in his campaign manager’s classroom. That would have made sense and showed courage.

    Unfortunately, he comes across as a childish twit when he attacks Kline for exposing what happened: “I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Having your campaign manager assign his students to work on your behalf during class time is unethical, if not illegal. Joe, you should speak out against such misbehavior, not attack the messenger.

    Kline is not working for Mrs Lovenburg. He has no position in the Lovenburg campaign. Why would Spector stoop so low as to presume that Kline was acting on her behalf and not on behalf of proper classroom behavior.

    It’s sad Spector doesn’t understand that what happened in that Econ classroom was wrong. It was not “about the broad support that he is getting from students.” That’s almost a Nixonian response.

    It’s sad Spector has tried to deflect this exposure of his own lack of ethics in this race by attacking one other candidate, Richard Harris, who had nothing to do with the envelope stuffing incident in the Econ class at Davis High. That backhanded swipe at Harris shows to me that Spector lacks the character to serve on the school board for Davis.

  191. disappointed davis voter

    I am new to Davis and don’t know the players in this drama personally. Before this incident, I was planning on voting for Spector and Schelen. I will now be voting for Schelen and Lovenburg.

    If Mr. Spector had any hope of winning this election, his chances are now likely shot. He should have said he did not support happened in his campaign manager’s classroom. That would have made sense and showed courage.

    Unfortunately, he comes across as a childish twit when he attacks Kline for exposing what happened: “I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Having your campaign manager assign his students to work on your behalf during class time is unethical, if not illegal. Joe, you should speak out against such misbehavior, not attack the messenger.

    Kline is not working for Mrs Lovenburg. He has no position in the Lovenburg campaign. Why would Spector stoop so low as to presume that Kline was acting on her behalf and not on behalf of proper classroom behavior.

    It’s sad Spector doesn’t understand that what happened in that Econ classroom was wrong. It was not “about the broad support that he is getting from students.” That’s almost a Nixonian response.

    It’s sad Spector has tried to deflect this exposure of his own lack of ethics in this race by attacking one other candidate, Richard Harris, who had nothing to do with the envelope stuffing incident in the Econ class at Davis High. That backhanded swipe at Harris shows to me that Spector lacks the character to serve on the school board for Davis.

  192. disappointed davis voter

    I am new to Davis and don’t know the players in this drama personally. Before this incident, I was planning on voting for Spector and Schelen. I will now be voting for Schelen and Lovenburg.

    If Mr. Spector had any hope of winning this election, his chances are now likely shot. He should have said he did not support happened in his campaign manager’s classroom. That would have made sense and showed courage.

    Unfortunately, he comes across as a childish twit when he attacks Kline for exposing what happened: “I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Having your campaign manager assign his students to work on your behalf during class time is unethical, if not illegal. Joe, you should speak out against such misbehavior, not attack the messenger.

    Kline is not working for Mrs Lovenburg. He has no position in the Lovenburg campaign. Why would Spector stoop so low as to presume that Kline was acting on her behalf and not on behalf of proper classroom behavior.

    It’s sad Spector doesn’t understand that what happened in that Econ classroom was wrong. It was not “about the broad support that he is getting from students.” That’s almost a Nixonian response.

    It’s sad Spector has tried to deflect this exposure of his own lack of ethics in this race by attacking one other candidate, Richard Harris, who had nothing to do with the envelope stuffing incident in the Econ class at Davis High. That backhanded swipe at Harris shows to me that Spector lacks the character to serve on the school board for Davis.

  193. Anonymous

    As I said before if Don Winters can’t speak for whatever reason then Joe Spector should. Leaving this out there like this is bad for the campaign.

    Ron

  194. Anonymous

    As I said before if Don Winters can’t speak for whatever reason then Joe Spector should. Leaving this out there like this is bad for the campaign.

    Ron

  195. Anonymous

    As I said before if Don Winters can’t speak for whatever reason then Joe Spector should. Leaving this out there like this is bad for the campaign.

    Ron

  196. Anonymous

    As I said before if Don Winters can’t speak for whatever reason then Joe Spector should. Leaving this out there like this is bad for the campaign.

    Ron

  197. Anonymous

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

    This statement is ridiculous DPD – it is YOUR blog meaning you can put anything you want…the past week has been really disappointing on this blog. It is used to be one man’s opinion that seemed to have some value. Now it has transgressed into if your not in DPD’s camp it ain’t worth it.

    Cheers

  198. Anonymous

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

    This statement is ridiculous DPD – it is YOUR blog meaning you can put anything you want…the past week has been really disappointing on this blog. It is used to be one man’s opinion that seemed to have some value. Now it has transgressed into if your not in DPD’s camp it ain’t worth it.

    Cheers

  199. Anonymous

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

    This statement is ridiculous DPD – it is YOUR blog meaning you can put anything you want…the past week has been really disappointing on this blog. It is used to be one man’s opinion that seemed to have some value. Now it has transgressed into if your not in DPD’s camp it ain’t worth it.

    Cheers

  200. Anonymous

    I don’t know that it is my place to print this information. But I have received communication from Don Winters on this matter. I am not at liberty to specify, but let’s just say he has good reasons for not speaking publicly on this matter that have nothing to do with whether or not he actually did what he is accused of doing. Some of you will catch my drift with this.

    This statement is ridiculous DPD – it is YOUR blog meaning you can put anything you want…the past week has been really disappointing on this blog. It is used to be one man’s opinion that seemed to have some value. Now it has transgressed into if your not in DPD’s camp it ain’t worth it.

    Cheers

  201. Doug Paul Davis

    I was not given permission to release the information by Don, so I cannot do so.

    “I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this.”

    I’m not yanking anyone’s chain.

  202. Doug Paul Davis

    I was not given permission to release the information by Don, so I cannot do so.

    “I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this.”

    I’m not yanking anyone’s chain.

  203. Doug Paul Davis

    I was not given permission to release the information by Don, so I cannot do so.

    “I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this.”

    I’m not yanking anyone’s chain.

  204. Doug Paul Davis

    I was not given permission to release the information by Don, so I cannot do so.

    “I think our chains are being collectively yanked, and DPD is laughing at all of this.”

    I’m not yanking anyone’s chain.

  205. Doug Paul Davis

    I posted something because people are insinuating that Don Winters is not talking because he is “guilty.”

    I do not believe that is a fair charge and was trying to convey that to people, because they are condemning him with less than all of the facts.

    I would advise people to consider the possibility that there is a legitimate reason why he would not respond in public at this time.

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence.

  206. Doug Paul Davis

    I posted something because people are insinuating that Don Winters is not talking because he is “guilty.”

    I do not believe that is a fair charge and was trying to convey that to people, because they are condemning him with less than all of the facts.

    I would advise people to consider the possibility that there is a legitimate reason why he would not respond in public at this time.

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence.

  207. Doug Paul Davis

    I posted something because people are insinuating that Don Winters is not talking because he is “guilty.”

    I do not believe that is a fair charge and was trying to convey that to people, because they are condemning him with less than all of the facts.

    I would advise people to consider the possibility that there is a legitimate reason why he would not respond in public at this time.

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence.

  208. Doug Paul Davis

    I posted something because people are insinuating that Don Winters is not talking because he is “guilty.”

    I do not believe that is a fair charge and was trying to convey that to people, because they are condemning him with less than all of the facts.

    I would advise people to consider the possibility that there is a legitimate reason why he would not respond in public at this time.

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence.

  209. Ethics Observer

    Yes, follow the money. Follow the money right into Don Winters’ pockets! I can’t believe the blindness of the Joe Spector/Don Winters/DPD crowd. Don Winters is a PAID political consultant! He is not a volunteer. He offers his services for hire. Using his students in his class for his business is against the law! Joe Spector is not even endorsed by the Democrats so the whole Democratic Club defense is B.S. If that were the case they should have been stuffing envelopes for Bob Schelen. Wake up!

    Doing it at lunch, using his sponsored “club” is unethical and if it’s not against the law it should be. I expect it is. Don Winters is a teacher, for crying out loud! These kids are not at school to be used for his campaign consulting business. They’re there to learn. Let’s hope they learn the right lesson from this fiasco.

    The silence and the failure to comment by Spector and Winters is astonishing. Even more so the blind loyalty of their supporters. If this were Karl Rove, everyone, including Democrats of all persuasions, would be outraged.

    Joe Spector is the one who should suffer the consequences. If he wins, no matter what happens to Winters and his pals (Livingston/Wagstaff/Winters/DPD) the message is clear: “Go ahead and break the law/rules, I still won. Hire Winters and Livingston again. We win! Whatever it takes!”

    This is an outrageous abuse of a teacher’s position of trust being used for his own financial benefit, as well as his political purposes. It has nothing to do with education in political science or government (except perhaps as a lesson about ethics to be taught by others in the future.)

    This should be universally protested. I can’t believe there is even a debate going on. This is allegedly a “progressive” blog. Give me a break.

  210. Ethics Observer

    Yes, follow the money. Follow the money right into Don Winters’ pockets! I can’t believe the blindness of the Joe Spector/Don Winters/DPD crowd. Don Winters is a PAID political consultant! He is not a volunteer. He offers his services for hire. Using his students in his class for his business is against the law! Joe Spector is not even endorsed by the Democrats so the whole Democratic Club defense is B.S. If that were the case they should have been stuffing envelopes for Bob Schelen. Wake up!

    Doing it at lunch, using his sponsored “club” is unethical and if it’s not against the law it should be. I expect it is. Don Winters is a teacher, for crying out loud! These kids are not at school to be used for his campaign consulting business. They’re there to learn. Let’s hope they learn the right lesson from this fiasco.

    The silence and the failure to comment by Spector and Winters is astonishing. Even more so the blind loyalty of their supporters. If this were Karl Rove, everyone, including Democrats of all persuasions, would be outraged.

    Joe Spector is the one who should suffer the consequences. If he wins, no matter what happens to Winters and his pals (Livingston/Wagstaff/Winters/DPD) the message is clear: “Go ahead and break the law/rules, I still won. Hire Winters and Livingston again. We win! Whatever it takes!”

    This is an outrageous abuse of a teacher’s position of trust being used for his own financial benefit, as well as his political purposes. It has nothing to do with education in political science or government (except perhaps as a lesson about ethics to be taught by others in the future.)

    This should be universally protested. I can’t believe there is even a debate going on. This is allegedly a “progressive” blog. Give me a break.

  211. Ethics Observer

    Yes, follow the money. Follow the money right into Don Winters’ pockets! I can’t believe the blindness of the Joe Spector/Don Winters/DPD crowd. Don Winters is a PAID political consultant! He is not a volunteer. He offers his services for hire. Using his students in his class for his business is against the law! Joe Spector is not even endorsed by the Democrats so the whole Democratic Club defense is B.S. If that were the case they should have been stuffing envelopes for Bob Schelen. Wake up!

    Doing it at lunch, using his sponsored “club” is unethical and if it’s not against the law it should be. I expect it is. Don Winters is a teacher, for crying out loud! These kids are not at school to be used for his campaign consulting business. They’re there to learn. Let’s hope they learn the right lesson from this fiasco.

    The silence and the failure to comment by Spector and Winters is astonishing. Even more so the blind loyalty of their supporters. If this were Karl Rove, everyone, including Democrats of all persuasions, would be outraged.

    Joe Spector is the one who should suffer the consequences. If he wins, no matter what happens to Winters and his pals (Livingston/Wagstaff/Winters/DPD) the message is clear: “Go ahead and break the law/rules, I still won. Hire Winters and Livingston again. We win! Whatever it takes!”

    This is an outrageous abuse of a teacher’s position of trust being used for his own financial benefit, as well as his political purposes. It has nothing to do with education in political science or government (except perhaps as a lesson about ethics to be taught by others in the future.)

    This should be universally protested. I can’t believe there is even a debate going on. This is allegedly a “progressive” blog. Give me a break.

  212. Ethics Observer

    Yes, follow the money. Follow the money right into Don Winters’ pockets! I can’t believe the blindness of the Joe Spector/Don Winters/DPD crowd. Don Winters is a PAID political consultant! He is not a volunteer. He offers his services for hire. Using his students in his class for his business is against the law! Joe Spector is not even endorsed by the Democrats so the whole Democratic Club defense is B.S. If that were the case they should have been stuffing envelopes for Bob Schelen. Wake up!

    Doing it at lunch, using his sponsored “club” is unethical and if it’s not against the law it should be. I expect it is. Don Winters is a teacher, for crying out loud! These kids are not at school to be used for his campaign consulting business. They’re there to learn. Let’s hope they learn the right lesson from this fiasco.

    The silence and the failure to comment by Spector and Winters is astonishing. Even more so the blind loyalty of their supporters. If this were Karl Rove, everyone, including Democrats of all persuasions, would be outraged.

    Joe Spector is the one who should suffer the consequences. If he wins, no matter what happens to Winters and his pals (Livingston/Wagstaff/Winters/DPD) the message is clear: “Go ahead and break the law/rules, I still won. Hire Winters and Livingston again. We win! Whatever it takes!”

    This is an outrageous abuse of a teacher’s position of trust being used for his own financial benefit, as well as his political purposes. It has nothing to do with education in political science or government (except perhaps as a lesson about ethics to be taught by others in the future.)

    This should be universally protested. I can’t believe there is even a debate going on. This is allegedly a “progressive” blog. Give me a break.

  213. don shor

    Based on comments on this thread, there are three separate students, two of them unidentified, who have first-hand evidence that political activity was occurring in Don Winter’s econ class.
    Given two separate opportunities to comment on that, Don Winters has declined to do so. Joe Spector’s statement was, IMO, very unsatisfactory.

    The article in the Enterprise appears to have been factual. The reporter, who I consider one of the best at the Enterprise, contacted multiple sources and gave each person the opportunity to respond.

    There is no rush to judgment here. The facts — difficult as they have been to ascertain — speak for themselves.

  214. don shor

    Based on comments on this thread, there are three separate students, two of them unidentified, who have first-hand evidence that political activity was occurring in Don Winter’s econ class.
    Given two separate opportunities to comment on that, Don Winters has declined to do so. Joe Spector’s statement was, IMO, very unsatisfactory.

    The article in the Enterprise appears to have been factual. The reporter, who I consider one of the best at the Enterprise, contacted multiple sources and gave each person the opportunity to respond.

    There is no rush to judgment here. The facts — difficult as they have been to ascertain — speak for themselves.

  215. don shor

    Based on comments on this thread, there are three separate students, two of them unidentified, who have first-hand evidence that political activity was occurring in Don Winter’s econ class.
    Given two separate opportunities to comment on that, Don Winters has declined to do so. Joe Spector’s statement was, IMO, very unsatisfactory.

    The article in the Enterprise appears to have been factual. The reporter, who I consider one of the best at the Enterprise, contacted multiple sources and gave each person the opportunity to respond.

    There is no rush to judgment here. The facts — difficult as they have been to ascertain — speak for themselves.

  216. don shor

    Based on comments on this thread, there are three separate students, two of them unidentified, who have first-hand evidence that political activity was occurring in Don Winter’s econ class.
    Given two separate opportunities to comment on that, Don Winters has declined to do so. Joe Spector’s statement was, IMO, very unsatisfactory.

    The article in the Enterprise appears to have been factual. The reporter, who I consider one of the best at the Enterprise, contacted multiple sources and gave each person the opportunity to respond.

    There is no rush to judgment here. The facts — difficult as they have been to ascertain — speak for themselves.

  217. Talking the talk and walking the walk

    Ethics Observer,

    You are just that, an observer. It doesn’t appear that you are a participator of ethics at all. It appears that you are simply attempting to smear Mr. Winter’s name without any facts.

    Get some ethics.

  218. Talking the talk and walking t

    Ethics Observer,

    You are just that, an observer. It doesn’t appear that you are a participator of ethics at all. It appears that you are simply attempting to smear Mr. Winter’s name without any facts.

    Get some ethics.

  219. Talking the talk and walking t

    Ethics Observer,

    You are just that, an observer. It doesn’t appear that you are a participator of ethics at all. It appears that you are simply attempting to smear Mr. Winter’s name without any facts.

    Get some ethics.

  220. Talking the talk and walking t

    Ethics Observer,

    You are just that, an observer. It doesn’t appear that you are a participator of ethics at all. It appears that you are simply attempting to smear Mr. Winter’s name without any facts.

    Get some ethics.

  221. Ta

    This article just came out in the Enterprise on Friday and the paper for Sunday had already been prepped for printing for Sunday.

    What was he supposed to do:

    1) Call channel 13
    2) Call channel 3, 10, etc.
    3) Hold a town square meeting outside of 31 flavors so that people could come prepared with their stones in case they did not like the answer?

    Everyone is so impatient and so quick to rush to judgment.

    If anything, it shows that you yourselves are not unbiased, but merely using this as a chance to smear someone.

    How Davis-like of you.

  222. Ta

    This article just came out in the Enterprise on Friday and the paper for Sunday had already been prepped for printing for Sunday.

    What was he supposed to do:

    1) Call channel 13
    2) Call channel 3, 10, etc.
    3) Hold a town square meeting outside of 31 flavors so that people could come prepared with their stones in case they did not like the answer?

    Everyone is so impatient and so quick to rush to judgment.

    If anything, it shows that you yourselves are not unbiased, but merely using this as a chance to smear someone.

    How Davis-like of you.

  223. Ta

    This article just came out in the Enterprise on Friday and the paper for Sunday had already been prepped for printing for Sunday.

    What was he supposed to do:

    1) Call channel 13
    2) Call channel 3, 10, etc.
    3) Hold a town square meeting outside of 31 flavors so that people could come prepared with their stones in case they did not like the answer?

    Everyone is so impatient and so quick to rush to judgment.

    If anything, it shows that you yourselves are not unbiased, but merely using this as a chance to smear someone.

    How Davis-like of you.

  224. Ta

    This article just came out in the Enterprise on Friday and the paper for Sunday had already been prepped for printing for Sunday.

    What was he supposed to do:

    1) Call channel 13
    2) Call channel 3, 10, etc.
    3) Hold a town square meeting outside of 31 flavors so that people could come prepared with their stones in case they did not like the answer?

    Everyone is so impatient and so quick to rush to judgment.

    If anything, it shows that you yourselves are not unbiased, but merely using this as a chance to smear someone.

    How Davis-like of you.

  225. Talking the talk and walking the walk

    Don Shor –

    You mentioned that there were two students on this blog who said that Mr. Winters did in fact do this in class.

    As readers we do not know if these two are students or are merely supporters of the opposition fanning the flame to help out their candidates.

    At least DPD did speak with a student who wished to remain anonymous.

  226. Talking the talk and walking t

    Don Shor –

    You mentioned that there were two students on this blog who said that Mr. Winters did in fact do this in class.

    As readers we do not know if these two are students or are merely supporters of the opposition fanning the flame to help out their candidates.

    At least DPD did speak with a student who wished to remain anonymous.

  227. Talking the talk and walking t

    Don Shor –

    You mentioned that there were two students on this blog who said that Mr. Winters did in fact do this in class.

    As readers we do not know if these two are students or are merely supporters of the opposition fanning the flame to help out their candidates.

    At least DPD did speak with a student who wished to remain anonymous.

  228. Talking the talk and walking t

    Don Shor –

    You mentioned that there were two students on this blog who said that Mr. Winters did in fact do this in class.

    As readers we do not know if these two are students or are merely supporters of the opposition fanning the flame to help out their candidates.

    At least DPD did speak with a student who wished to remain anonymous.

  229. Ann

    Doug Paul –

    I would strongly suggest that you consider requiring people to have a Username to login and comment.

    I know that you raised this issue once before.

    I think it’s time to give it serious consideration once again.

    Thank you in advance for giving it some thought.

    Ann

  230. Ann

    Doug Paul –

    I would strongly suggest that you consider requiring people to have a Username to login and comment.

    I know that you raised this issue once before.

    I think it’s time to give it serious consideration once again.

    Thank you in advance for giving it some thought.

    Ann

  231. Ann

    Doug Paul –

    I would strongly suggest that you consider requiring people to have a Username to login and comment.

    I know that you raised this issue once before.

    I think it’s time to give it serious consideration once again.

    Thank you in advance for giving it some thought.

    Ann

  232. Ann

    Doug Paul –

    I would strongly suggest that you consider requiring people to have a Username to login and comment.

    I know that you raised this issue once before.

    I think it’s time to give it serious consideration once again.

    Thank you in advance for giving it some thought.

    Ann

  233. Ehics Observer

    A FEW UNDISPUTED FACTS:

    1. Don Winters is a DJUSD emploeyee/teacher and a hired political consultant. He charges candidates money for his services.

    2. Don Winters is hired by Joe Spector, also a DJUSD employee/pscyhlogist, and a candidate for the DJUSD board.

    3. Don Winters has been accused of using his students at Davis High School to perform polical activties for his client, Joe Spector.

    4. Don Winters supervises the Young Democrats Club at Davis High School.

    5. Joe Spector is not endorsed by the Democratic Party.

    6. Don Winters and Joe Spector both refuse to deny that Don Winters supervised any campaign work on campus by the students Don supervises. They both refuse to comment.

    FACTS POSSIBLY IN DISPUTE:

    1. Whether Joe Spector campaign acitivities (preparing mailings) occurred at Davis High School under the supervision of Don Winters.

    2. If campaign activity did occur, whether it occurred under the auspices of Don Winters’ classes or a student Democratic Club that he supervised.

    I anxiously await the answers to the all these questions. But, as I mentioned before, once it is finally determined that the campaign activity did indeed occur (as everyone who has independent knowledge already knows it did) then the rest is just a matter of severity. Just HOW BADLY did Joe Spector and Don Winters blow it.
    I suspect the answer is “very badly.”

    Following that, the only real substantive question left is, “What will be the punishment administered to Don Winters by the school district and when will it be administered?” The heat is now on the current superintendent and the current school board. Do they attempt to delay until after the election? Or do they deal with it in a prompt and decisive manner that shows they are in charge?

    I look forward to their response.

    And what will be the punishments administered to Joe Spector?

    That is in the hands of the voters.

  234. Ehics Observer

    A FEW UNDISPUTED FACTS:

    1. Don Winters is a DJUSD emploeyee/teacher and a hired political consultant. He charges candidates money for his services.

    2. Don Winters is hired by Joe Spector, also a DJUSD employee/pscyhlogist, and a candidate for the DJUSD board.

    3. Don Winters has been accused of using his students at Davis High School to perform polical activties for his client, Joe Spector.

    4. Don Winters supervises the Young Democrats Club at Davis High School.

    5. Joe Spector is not endorsed by the Democratic Party.

    6. Don Winters and Joe Spector both refuse to deny that Don Winters supervised any campaign work on campus by the students Don supervises. They both refuse to comment.

    FACTS POSSIBLY IN DISPUTE:

    1. Whether Joe Spector campaign acitivities (preparing mailings) occurred at Davis High School under the supervision of Don Winters.

    2. If campaign activity did occur, whether it occurred under the auspices of Don Winters’ classes or a student Democratic Club that he supervised.

    I anxiously await the answers to the all these questions. But, as I mentioned before, once it is finally determined that the campaign activity did indeed occur (as everyone who has independent knowledge already knows it did) then the rest is just a matter of severity. Just HOW BADLY did Joe Spector and Don Winters blow it.
    I suspect the answer is “very badly.”

    Following that, the only real substantive question left is, “What will be the punishment administered to Don Winters by the school district and when will it be administered?” The heat is now on the current superintendent and the current school board. Do they attempt to delay until after the election? Or do they deal with it in a prompt and decisive manner that shows they are in charge?

    I look forward to their response.

    And what will be the punishments administered to Joe Spector?

    That is in the hands of the voters.

  235. Ehics Observer

    A FEW UNDISPUTED FACTS:

    1. Don Winters is a DJUSD emploeyee/teacher and a hired political consultant. He charges candidates money for his services.

    2. Don Winters is hired by Joe Spector, also a DJUSD employee/pscyhlogist, and a candidate for the DJUSD board.

    3. Don Winters has been accused of using his students at Davis High School to perform polical activties for his client, Joe Spector.

    4. Don Winters supervises the Young Democrats Club at Davis High School.

    5. Joe Spector is not endorsed by the Democratic Party.

    6. Don Winters and Joe Spector both refuse to deny that Don Winters supervised any campaign work on campus by the students Don supervises. They both refuse to comment.

    FACTS POSSIBLY IN DISPUTE:

    1. Whether Joe Spector campaign acitivities (preparing mailings) occurred at Davis High School under the supervision of Don Winters.

    2. If campaign activity did occur, whether it occurred under the auspices of Don Winters’ classes or a student Democratic Club that he supervised.

    I anxiously await the answers to the all these questions. But, as I mentioned before, once it is finally determined that the campaign activity did indeed occur (as everyone who has independent knowledge already knows it did) then the rest is just a matter of severity. Just HOW BADLY did Joe Spector and Don Winters blow it.
    I suspect the answer is “very badly.”

    Following that, the only real substantive question left is, “What will be the punishment administered to Don Winters by the school district and when will it be administered?” The heat is now on the current superintendent and the current school board. Do they attempt to delay until after the election? Or do they deal with it in a prompt and decisive manner that shows they are in charge?

    I look forward to their response.

    And what will be the punishments administered to Joe Spector?

    That is in the hands of the voters.

  236. Ehics Observer

    A FEW UNDISPUTED FACTS:

    1. Don Winters is a DJUSD emploeyee/teacher and a hired political consultant. He charges candidates money for his services.

    2. Don Winters is hired by Joe Spector, also a DJUSD employee/pscyhlogist, and a candidate for the DJUSD board.

    3. Don Winters has been accused of using his students at Davis High School to perform polical activties for his client, Joe Spector.

    4. Don Winters supervises the Young Democrats Club at Davis High School.

    5. Joe Spector is not endorsed by the Democratic Party.

    6. Don Winters and Joe Spector both refuse to deny that Don Winters supervised any campaign work on campus by the students Don supervises. They both refuse to comment.

    FACTS POSSIBLY IN DISPUTE:

    1. Whether Joe Spector campaign acitivities (preparing mailings) occurred at Davis High School under the supervision of Don Winters.

    2. If campaign activity did occur, whether it occurred under the auspices of Don Winters’ classes or a student Democratic Club that he supervised.

    I anxiously await the answers to the all these questions. But, as I mentioned before, once it is finally determined that the campaign activity did indeed occur (as everyone who has independent knowledge already knows it did) then the rest is just a matter of severity. Just HOW BADLY did Joe Spector and Don Winters blow it.
    I suspect the answer is “very badly.”

    Following that, the only real substantive question left is, “What will be the punishment administered to Don Winters by the school district and when will it be administered?” The heat is now on the current superintendent and the current school board. Do they attempt to delay until after the election? Or do they deal with it in a prompt and decisive manner that shows they are in charge?

    I look forward to their response.

    And what will be the punishments administered to Joe Spector?

    That is in the hands of the voters.

  237. Anonymous

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence…

    You do? If so you would not mention “off the record” conversations at all

  238. Anonymous

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence…

    You do? If so you would not mention “off the record” conversations at all

  239. Anonymous

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence…

    You do? If so you would not mention “off the record” conversations at all

  240. Anonymous

    Furthermore, when someone speaks to me “off the record” I honor their confidence…

    You do? If so you would not mention “off the record” conversations at all

  241. Talking the talk and walking the walk

    Ethics Observer,

    You are clearly a supporter of either Lovenburg, Harris, or both.

    So your credability is shot. You are not here to be unbiased and wait for the outcome. Instead, it is your intent to smear Mr. Winter’s name, Joe Spector’s name, or both.

    Or, maybe you are in fact Lovenburg or Harris disguising as a blog poster and pretending to be some random person blogging.

    Whatever the case may be, the fact remains that you are quick to jump to conclusions and are therefore not credible.

    Furthermore, regardless of what transpired on campus under the direction of Mr. Winters it is separate from Joe Spector because Spector was not the one who made the blunder if in fact a blunder or poor judgment did take place.

    Put your stones away.

  242. Talking the talk and walking t

    Ethics Observer,

    You are clearly a supporter of either Lovenburg, Harris, or both.

    So your credability is shot. You are not here to be unbiased and wait for the outcome. Instead, it is your intent to smear Mr. Winter’s name, Joe Spector’s name, or both.

    Or, maybe you are in fact Lovenburg or Harris disguising as a blog poster and pretending to be some random person blogging.

    Whatever the case may be, the fact remains that you are quick to jump to conclusions and are therefore not credible.

    Furthermore, regardless of what transpired on campus under the direction of Mr. Winters it is separate from Joe Spector because Spector was not the one who made the blunder if in fact a blunder or poor judgment did take place.

    Put your stones away.

  243. Talking the talk and walking t

    Ethics Observer,

    You are clearly a supporter of either Lovenburg, Harris, or both.

    So your credability is shot. You are not here to be unbiased and wait for the outcome. Instead, it is your intent to smear Mr. Winter’s name, Joe Spector’s name, or both.

    Or, maybe you are in fact Lovenburg or Harris disguising as a blog poster and pretending to be some random person blogging.

    Whatever the case may be, the fact remains that you are quick to jump to conclusions and are therefore not credible.

    Furthermore, regardless of what transpired on campus under the direction of Mr. Winters it is separate from Joe Spector because Spector was not the one who made the blunder if in fact a blunder or poor judgment did take place.

    Put your stones away.

  244. Talking the talk and walking t

    Ethics Observer,

    You are clearly a supporter of either Lovenburg, Harris, or both.

    So your credability is shot. You are not here to be unbiased and wait for the outcome. Instead, it is your intent to smear Mr. Winter’s name, Joe Spector’s name, or both.

    Or, maybe you are in fact Lovenburg or Harris disguising as a blog poster and pretending to be some random person blogging.

    Whatever the case may be, the fact remains that you are quick to jump to conclusions and are therefore not credible.

    Furthermore, regardless of what transpired on campus under the direction of Mr. Winters it is separate from Joe Spector because Spector was not the one who made the blunder if in fact a blunder or poor judgment did take place.

    Put your stones away.

  245. Anonymous

    Yeah…Don Winters the liberal Government teacher at DJUSD is the political mastermind of Davis making this town bloody liberal! Karl Rove is his hero…[laughing out loud]

    Do you get paid to make this BS up?

    What a conspiracy! Yea right.

  246. Anonymous

    Yeah…Don Winters the liberal Government teacher at DJUSD is the political mastermind of Davis making this town bloody liberal! Karl Rove is his hero…[laughing out loud]

    Do you get paid to make this BS up?

    What a conspiracy! Yea right.

  247. Anonymous

    Yeah…Don Winters the liberal Government teacher at DJUSD is the political mastermind of Davis making this town bloody liberal! Karl Rove is his hero…[laughing out loud]

    Do you get paid to make this BS up?

    What a conspiracy! Yea right.

  248. Anonymous

    Yeah…Don Winters the liberal Government teacher at DJUSD is the political mastermind of Davis making this town bloody liberal! Karl Rove is his hero…[laughing out loud]

    Do you get paid to make this BS up?

    What a conspiracy! Yea right.

  249. vanguardian

    The Vanguard appears to have spawned a gaggle of mini-Dunnings on this subject. I trust that this emotional cathartic was a pleasant cleansing experience for them. For myself, I will wait until the full account of what transpired is made public.

  250. vanguardian

    The Vanguard appears to have spawned a gaggle of mini-Dunnings on this subject. I trust that this emotional cathartic was a pleasant cleansing experience for them. For myself, I will wait until the full account of what transpired is made public.

  251. vanguardian

    The Vanguard appears to have spawned a gaggle of mini-Dunnings on this subject. I trust that this emotional cathartic was a pleasant cleansing experience for them. For myself, I will wait until the full account of what transpired is made public.

  252. vanguardian

    The Vanguard appears to have spawned a gaggle of mini-Dunnings on this subject. I trust that this emotional cathartic was a pleasant cleansing experience for them. For myself, I will wait until the full account of what transpired is made public.

  253. Anonymous

    10:00

    What you say is true if Joe Spector issues a statement of condemnation, claims no knowledge and apologizes on Don Winters behalf. Otherwise they sink together. Joe needs to make a mistakes were made statement. As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile. It does detract from the intensity of the statement when something is anonymous. Still, these statements can be judged by the character of their content and although I support Joe Spector for school board ethics observer makes good points.

  254. Anonymous

    10:00

    What you say is true if Joe Spector issues a statement of condemnation, claims no knowledge and apologizes on Don Winters behalf. Otherwise they sink together. Joe needs to make a mistakes were made statement. As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile. It does detract from the intensity of the statement when something is anonymous. Still, these statements can be judged by the character of their content and although I support Joe Spector for school board ethics observer makes good points.

  255. Anonymous

    10:00

    What you say is true if Joe Spector issues a statement of condemnation, claims no knowledge and apologizes on Don Winters behalf. Otherwise they sink together. Joe needs to make a mistakes were made statement. As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile. It does detract from the intensity of the statement when something is anonymous. Still, these statements can be judged by the character of their content and although I support Joe Spector for school board ethics observer makes good points.

  256. Anonymous

    10:00

    What you say is true if Joe Spector issues a statement of condemnation, claims no knowledge and apologizes on Don Winters behalf. Otherwise they sink together. Joe needs to make a mistakes were made statement. As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile. It does detract from the intensity of the statement when something is anonymous. Still, these statements can be judged by the character of their content and although I support Joe Spector for school board ethics observer makes good points.

  257. Saving my stones for the creek

    Anonymous 9:55 pm:

    You must not understand what “off the record” means. It means that a person does not want to be identified, or have their name disclosed.

    I saw nothing wrong with DPD sharing with us the “off the record” information and informing us that the student wished to remain anonymous.

    It shed some light on the subject and raised more questions.

    However, for the Harris and Lovenburg supporters they still wish to “throw stones” as someone said earlier.

    I heard some people say at a block party yesterday that they are voting for Spector because they like him and are tired of the Enterprise smearing people.

    I tend to agree. I’m mailing in my ballot in tomorrow. Spector, you have my vote.

  258. Saving my stones for the creek

    Anonymous 9:55 pm:

    You must not understand what “off the record” means. It means that a person does not want to be identified, or have their name disclosed.

    I saw nothing wrong with DPD sharing with us the “off the record” information and informing us that the student wished to remain anonymous.

    It shed some light on the subject and raised more questions.

    However, for the Harris and Lovenburg supporters they still wish to “throw stones” as someone said earlier.

    I heard some people say at a block party yesterday that they are voting for Spector because they like him and are tired of the Enterprise smearing people.

    I tend to agree. I’m mailing in my ballot in tomorrow. Spector, you have my vote.

  259. Saving my stones for the creek

    Anonymous 9:55 pm:

    You must not understand what “off the record” means. It means that a person does not want to be identified, or have their name disclosed.

    I saw nothing wrong with DPD sharing with us the “off the record” information and informing us that the student wished to remain anonymous.

    It shed some light on the subject and raised more questions.

    However, for the Harris and Lovenburg supporters they still wish to “throw stones” as someone said earlier.

    I heard some people say at a block party yesterday that they are voting for Spector because they like him and are tired of the Enterprise smearing people.

    I tend to agree. I’m mailing in my ballot in tomorrow. Spector, you have my vote.

  260. Saving my stones for the creek

    Anonymous 9:55 pm:

    You must not understand what “off the record” means. It means that a person does not want to be identified, or have their name disclosed.

    I saw nothing wrong with DPD sharing with us the “off the record” information and informing us that the student wished to remain anonymous.

    It shed some light on the subject and raised more questions.

    However, for the Harris and Lovenburg supporters they still wish to “throw stones” as someone said earlier.

    I heard some people say at a block party yesterday that they are voting for Spector because they like him and are tired of the Enterprise smearing people.

    I tend to agree. I’m mailing in my ballot in tomorrow. Spector, you have my vote.

  261. Patience

    Vanguard –

    You should seriously consider requiring people to register and login as someone said earlier.

    This would prevent the “anonymous'” of the world from multiplying.

  262. Patience

    Vanguard –

    You should seriously consider requiring people to register and login as someone said earlier.

    This would prevent the “anonymous'” of the world from multiplying.

  263. Patience

    Vanguard –

    You should seriously consider requiring people to register and login as someone said earlier.

    This would prevent the “anonymous'” of the world from multiplying.

  264. Patience

    Vanguard –

    You should seriously consider requiring people to register and login as someone said earlier.

    This would prevent the “anonymous'” of the world from multiplying.

  265. Talking the talk and walking the walk

    “As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile.”

    It is not futile. What is futile, is the fact that they don’t have the guts to list their name. That, is what is futile. Hiding behind the mask of “anonymous” when there is a smear campaign going on is futile.

  266. Talking the talk and walking t

    “As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile.”

    It is not futile. What is futile, is the fact that they don’t have the guts to list their name. That, is what is futile. Hiding behind the mask of “anonymous” when there is a smear campaign going on is futile.

  267. Talking the talk and walking t

    “As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile.”

    It is not futile. What is futile, is the fact that they don’t have the guts to list their name. That, is what is futile. Hiding behind the mask of “anonymous” when there is a smear campaign going on is futile.

  268. Talking the talk and walking t

    “As for trying to attack anonymous posters or assume anything about them is futile.”

    It is not futile. What is futile, is the fact that they don’t have the guts to list their name. That, is what is futile. Hiding behind the mask of “anonymous” when there is a smear campaign going on is futile.

  269. Anonymous

    Look in the book of quotations. Anonymous is probably the most quoted person in history. Get over it. Anonymous is here to stay. Just take them with for what they are;the thoughts of people who for whatever reason don’t want to identify themselves. In my case its because my wife would kill me. I fear her more than anyone else in town.

  270. Anonymous

    Look in the book of quotations. Anonymous is probably the most quoted person in history. Get over it. Anonymous is here to stay. Just take them with for what they are;the thoughts of people who for whatever reason don’t want to identify themselves. In my case its because my wife would kill me. I fear her more than anyone else in town.

  271. Anonymous

    Look in the book of quotations. Anonymous is probably the most quoted person in history. Get over it. Anonymous is here to stay. Just take them with for what they are;the thoughts of people who for whatever reason don’t want to identify themselves. In my case its because my wife would kill me. I fear her more than anyone else in town.

  272. Anonymous

    Look in the book of quotations. Anonymous is probably the most quoted person in history. Get over it. Anonymous is here to stay. Just take them with for what they are;the thoughts of people who for whatever reason don’t want to identify themselves. In my case its because my wife would kill me. I fear her more than anyone else in town.

  273. 無名 - wu ming

    anonymous posters online don’t really qualify as evidence IMO so much as rumor (which may or may not be true; i’ll wait to make up my mind as events unfold). and at any rate, one can hardly excuse a vague enterprise story by saying that one can clear things up by either a) reading the anonymous comments at an unrelated blog, or b) getting the scuttlebutt through the usual davis pickalittle channels (of which many of us apparently do not have adequate access).

    responsible reporting would have 1) spelled the details of the scandal out clearly, 2) gone to witnesses to the act for quotes (there must be 20-30 students in a class from which to choose, most of them not children of politically interested parties), and 3) refrained from jumping to put it on the front page if they could not provide either 1 or 2.

    i mean, either you can nail a story or you can’t. if you can’t, perhaps waiting for more or more detailed evidence is in order.

    hopefully we’ll get more of an account from all sides (including, one can dream, people not aligned with either side), before the election takes place.

  274. 無名 - wu ming

    anonymous posters online don’t really qualify as evidence IMO so much as rumor (which may or may not be true; i’ll wait to make up my mind as events unfold). and at any rate, one can hardly excuse a vague enterprise story by saying that one can clear things up by either a) reading the anonymous comments at an unrelated blog, or b) getting the scuttlebutt through the usual davis pickalittle channels (of which many of us apparently do not have adequate access).

    responsible reporting would have 1) spelled the details of the scandal out clearly, 2) gone to witnesses to the act for quotes (there must be 20-30 students in a class from which to choose, most of them not children of politically interested parties), and 3) refrained from jumping to put it on the front page if they could not provide either 1 or 2.

    i mean, either you can nail a story or you can’t. if you can’t, perhaps waiting for more or more detailed evidence is in order.

    hopefully we’ll get more of an account from all sides (including, one can dream, people not aligned with either side), before the election takes place.

  275. 無名 - wu ming

    anonymous posters online don’t really qualify as evidence IMO so much as rumor (which may or may not be true; i’ll wait to make up my mind as events unfold). and at any rate, one can hardly excuse a vague enterprise story by saying that one can clear things up by either a) reading the anonymous comments at an unrelated blog, or b) getting the scuttlebutt through the usual davis pickalittle channels (of which many of us apparently do not have adequate access).

    responsible reporting would have 1) spelled the details of the scandal out clearly, 2) gone to witnesses to the act for quotes (there must be 20-30 students in a class from which to choose, most of them not children of politically interested parties), and 3) refrained from jumping to put it on the front page if they could not provide either 1 or 2.

    i mean, either you can nail a story or you can’t. if you can’t, perhaps waiting for more or more detailed evidence is in order.

    hopefully we’ll get more of an account from all sides (including, one can dream, people not aligned with either side), before the election takes place.

  276. 無名 - wu ming

    anonymous posters online don’t really qualify as evidence IMO so much as rumor (which may or may not be true; i’ll wait to make up my mind as events unfold). and at any rate, one can hardly excuse a vague enterprise story by saying that one can clear things up by either a) reading the anonymous comments at an unrelated blog, or b) getting the scuttlebutt through the usual davis pickalittle channels (of which many of us apparently do not have adequate access).

    responsible reporting would have 1) spelled the details of the scandal out clearly, 2) gone to witnesses to the act for quotes (there must be 20-30 students in a class from which to choose, most of them not children of politically interested parties), and 3) refrained from jumping to put it on the front page if they could not provide either 1 or 2.

    i mean, either you can nail a story or you can’t. if you can’t, perhaps waiting for more or more detailed evidence is in order.

    hopefully we’ll get more of an account from all sides (including, one can dream, people not aligned with either side), before the election takes place.

  277. Anonymous

    “Off the record” is a term used by journalists.

    David Greenwald, aka Doug Paul Davis, is not a journalist nor does he claim to be one.

    This is a blog. It is nothing more than a wall where people can spray grafiti. DPD does most of the spraying himself and sometimes paints over the stuff he doesn’t like. It’s his wall, afterall. If you don’t like it, build your own wall.

    There are no journalistic standards here, nor any of the artifice of bonafide journalism as we know it in America. If David Greenwald wants to become a journalist and apply journalistic standards to this effort he can do so. But it won’t be the same.

    Randomly choosing when to invoke journalistic standards such as “off the record” or “on background” in order create a facade of credibility or to protect sources in some cases and not others will only confuse people. I suggest not bothering.

    I enjoy reading the Vanguard because it gives me insight into how a couple dozen people or so who are obsessed with Davis politics think.

    And that provides a window into the human condition, sad as it is. It’s the same reason I decided to work for the Discover Channel.

  278. Anonymous

    “Off the record” is a term used by journalists.

    David Greenwald, aka Doug Paul Davis, is not a journalist nor does he claim to be one.

    This is a blog. It is nothing more than a wall where people can spray grafiti. DPD does most of the spraying himself and sometimes paints over the stuff he doesn’t like. It’s his wall, afterall. If you don’t like it, build your own wall.

    There are no journalistic standards here, nor any of the artifice of bonafide journalism as we know it in America. If David Greenwald wants to become a journalist and apply journalistic standards to this effort he can do so. But it won’t be the same.

    Randomly choosing when to invoke journalistic standards such as “off the record” or “on background” in order create a facade of credibility or to protect sources in some cases and not others will only confuse people. I suggest not bothering.

    I enjoy reading the Vanguard because it gives me insight into how a couple dozen people or so who are obsessed with Davis politics think.

    And that provides a window into the human condition, sad as it is. It’s the same reason I decided to work for the Discover Channel.

  279. Anonymous

    “Off the record” is a term used by journalists.

    David Greenwald, aka Doug Paul Davis, is not a journalist nor does he claim to be one.

    This is a blog. It is nothing more than a wall where people can spray grafiti. DPD does most of the spraying himself and sometimes paints over the stuff he doesn’t like. It’s his wall, afterall. If you don’t like it, build your own wall.

    There are no journalistic standards here, nor any of the artifice of bonafide journalism as we know it in America. If David Greenwald wants to become a journalist and apply journalistic standards to this effort he can do so. But it won’t be the same.

    Randomly choosing when to invoke journalistic standards such as “off the record” or “on background” in order create a facade of credibility or to protect sources in some cases and not others will only confuse people. I suggest not bothering.

    I enjoy reading the Vanguard because it gives me insight into how a couple dozen people or so who are obsessed with Davis politics think.

    And that provides a window into the human condition, sad as it is. It’s the same reason I decided to work for the Discover Channel.

  280. Anonymous

    “Off the record” is a term used by journalists.

    David Greenwald, aka Doug Paul Davis, is not a journalist nor does he claim to be one.

    This is a blog. It is nothing more than a wall where people can spray grafiti. DPD does most of the spraying himself and sometimes paints over the stuff he doesn’t like. It’s his wall, afterall. If you don’t like it, build your own wall.

    There are no journalistic standards here, nor any of the artifice of bonafide journalism as we know it in America. If David Greenwald wants to become a journalist and apply journalistic standards to this effort he can do so. But it won’t be the same.

    Randomly choosing when to invoke journalistic standards such as “off the record” or “on background” in order create a facade of credibility or to protect sources in some cases and not others will only confuse people. I suggest not bothering.

    I enjoy reading the Vanguard because it gives me insight into how a couple dozen people or so who are obsessed with Davis politics think.

    And that provides a window into the human condition, sad as it is. It’s the same reason I decided to work for the Discover Channel.

  281. Chow Fun

    Wu Ming,

    The Enterprise went straight to the source and both Winters and Spector declined to comment. Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t. The New York Times would have run the story. And we should all be glad the Enterprise did as well.

  282. Chow Fun

    Wu Ming,

    The Enterprise went straight to the source and both Winters and Spector declined to comment. Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t. The New York Times would have run the story. And we should all be glad the Enterprise did as well.

  283. Chow Fun

    Wu Ming,

    The Enterprise went straight to the source and both Winters and Spector declined to comment. Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t. The New York Times would have run the story. And we should all be glad the Enterprise did as well.

  284. Chow Fun

    Wu Ming,

    The Enterprise went straight to the source and both Winters and Spector declined to comment. Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t. The New York Times would have run the story. And we should all be glad the Enterprise did as well.

  285. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming

    Hey Mr. Chinese Anonymous,
    Look what I found, via Wikipedia:
    “meaning of the name
    “wu ming” means … “anonymous”
    (無名 in traditional Chinese and
    无名 in simplified Chinese)

    Those Chinese characters look pretty anonymous to even my non-Chinese eyes, Mr. 無名

  286. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming

    Hey Mr. Chinese Anonymous,
    Look what I found, via Wikipedia:
    “meaning of the name
    “wu ming” means … “anonymous”
    (無名 in traditional Chinese and
    无名 in simplified Chinese)

    Those Chinese characters look pretty anonymous to even my non-Chinese eyes, Mr. 無名

  287. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming

    Hey Mr. Chinese Anonymous,
    Look what I found, via Wikipedia:
    “meaning of the name
    “wu ming” means … “anonymous”
    (無名 in traditional Chinese and
    无名 in simplified Chinese)

    Those Chinese characters look pretty anonymous to even my non-Chinese eyes, Mr. 無名

  288. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming

    Hey Mr. Chinese Anonymous,
    Look what I found, via Wikipedia:
    “meaning of the name
    “wu ming” means … “anonymous”
    (無名 in traditional Chinese and
    无名 in simplified Chinese)

    Those Chinese characters look pretty anonymous to even my non-Chinese eyes, Mr. 無名

  289. former enterprise subscriber

    DPD –

    I just love how people log on to your blog who consider themselves experts, self-described journalists or discover channel contributors.

    They bitch and complain about you providing a forum for people to express concerns, ideas, political opinions, etc. However, they too “blog on” and participate…which is fine, but then they attack you saying you’re not a journalist, you’re a graffiti artist, yada, yada, yada…

    As far as I’m concerned the thousands of people (as you have in your marketing materials) that read your blog on a monthly basis get the opportunity to read another side of a story, or read a story altogether that the local rag does not cover.

    We have one newspaper in this city and it only covers very specific stories and prints the letters to the editor that it chooses, so people don’t get a chance to respond to the daily BS.

    We need you in Davis and we’re glad you’re here. Keep up the good work.

  290. former enterprise subscriber

    DPD –

    I just love how people log on to your blog who consider themselves experts, self-described journalists or discover channel contributors.

    They bitch and complain about you providing a forum for people to express concerns, ideas, political opinions, etc. However, they too “blog on” and participate…which is fine, but then they attack you saying you’re not a journalist, you’re a graffiti artist, yada, yada, yada…

    As far as I’m concerned the thousands of people (as you have in your marketing materials) that read your blog on a monthly basis get the opportunity to read another side of a story, or read a story altogether that the local rag does not cover.

    We have one newspaper in this city and it only covers very specific stories and prints the letters to the editor that it chooses, so people don’t get a chance to respond to the daily BS.

    We need you in Davis and we’re glad you’re here. Keep up the good work.

  291. former enterprise subscriber

    DPD –

    I just love how people log on to your blog who consider themselves experts, self-described journalists or discover channel contributors.

    They bitch and complain about you providing a forum for people to express concerns, ideas, political opinions, etc. However, they too “blog on” and participate…which is fine, but then they attack you saying you’re not a journalist, you’re a graffiti artist, yada, yada, yada…

    As far as I’m concerned the thousands of people (as you have in your marketing materials) that read your blog on a monthly basis get the opportunity to read another side of a story, or read a story altogether that the local rag does not cover.

    We have one newspaper in this city and it only covers very specific stories and prints the letters to the editor that it chooses, so people don’t get a chance to respond to the daily BS.

    We need you in Davis and we’re glad you’re here. Keep up the good work.

  292. former enterprise subscriber

    DPD –

    I just love how people log on to your blog who consider themselves experts, self-described journalists or discover channel contributors.

    They bitch and complain about you providing a forum for people to express concerns, ideas, political opinions, etc. However, they too “blog on” and participate…which is fine, but then they attack you saying you’re not a journalist, you’re a graffiti artist, yada, yada, yada…

    As far as I’m concerned the thousands of people (as you have in your marketing materials) that read your blog on a monthly basis get the opportunity to read another side of a story, or read a story altogether that the local rag does not cover.

    We have one newspaper in this city and it only covers very specific stories and prints the letters to the editor that it chooses, so people don’t get a chance to respond to the daily BS.

    We need you in Davis and we’re glad you’re here. Keep up the good work.

  293. davis voter

    The student who commented on this thread was clearly more politically “mature”,articulate and clear-headed than many of those(adults) who are ranting against Don Winters “supervising” these DHS students. The role of supervising the Young Democrats Club, of course, has almost nothing to do with the activity group decisions of the club members themselves.

  294. davis voter

    The student who commented on this thread was clearly more politically “mature”,articulate and clear-headed than many of those(adults) who are ranting against Don Winters “supervising” these DHS students. The role of supervising the Young Democrats Club, of course, has almost nothing to do with the activity group decisions of the club members themselves.

  295. davis voter

    The student who commented on this thread was clearly more politically “mature”,articulate and clear-headed than many of those(adults) who are ranting against Don Winters “supervising” these DHS students. The role of supervising the Young Democrats Club, of course, has almost nothing to do with the activity group decisions of the club members themselves.

  296. davis voter

    The student who commented on this thread was clearly more politically “mature”,articulate and clear-headed than many of those(adults) who are ranting against Don Winters “supervising” these DHS students. The role of supervising the Young Democrats Club, of course, has almost nothing to do with the activity group decisions of the club members themselves.

  297. davis voter

    “Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t.”

    …just look around in the news. Educators(professors at Columbia Univ., De Paul University) who are subjected to orchestrated public attack on their professional behavoir choose to deal with the situation within the administration of the institution with the involvement of their professional peers. They know that it does no good to get into a heated public “pissing match” with their attackers.

  298. davis voter

    “Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t.”

    …just look around in the news. Educators(professors at Columbia Univ., De Paul University) who are subjected to orchestrated public attack on their professional behavoir choose to deal with the situation within the administration of the institution with the involvement of their professional peers. They know that it does no good to get into a heated public “pissing match” with their attackers.

  299. davis voter

    “Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t.”

    …just look around in the news. Educators(professors at Columbia Univ., De Paul University) who are subjected to orchestrated public attack on their professional behavoir choose to deal with the situation within the administration of the institution with the involvement of their professional peers. They know that it does no good to get into a heated public “pissing match” with their attackers.

  300. davis voter

    “Had Winters denied the allegation you would have a point. But he didn’t.”

    …just look around in the news. Educators(professors at Columbia Univ., De Paul University) who are subjected to orchestrated public attack on their professional behavoir choose to deal with the situation within the administration of the institution with the involvement of their professional peers. They know that it does no good to get into a heated public “pissing match” with their attackers.

  301. 無名 - wu ming

    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese). that being said, pseudonymous is not the same as anonymous; pseudonymous posters tend to build up a reputation through a history of comments, whereas truly anonymous ones are indistinguishable from other anonymous ones, and often (but not always) act as if they are not responsible for what they write.

    at any rate, getting back to the original point of the thread, there’s no way anyone should be quoting anything i write online as an official journalistic source. there are gradations to evidence.

  302. 無名 - wu ming

    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese). that being said, pseudonymous is not the same as anonymous; pseudonymous posters tend to build up a reputation through a history of comments, whereas truly anonymous ones are indistinguishable from other anonymous ones, and often (but not always) act as if they are not responsible for what they write.

    at any rate, getting back to the original point of the thread, there’s no way anyone should be quoting anything i write online as an official journalistic source. there are gradations to evidence.

  303. 無名 - wu ming

    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese). that being said, pseudonymous is not the same as anonymous; pseudonymous posters tend to build up a reputation through a history of comments, whereas truly anonymous ones are indistinguishable from other anonymous ones, and often (but not always) act as if they are not responsible for what they write.

    at any rate, getting back to the original point of the thread, there’s no way anyone should be quoting anything i write online as an official journalistic source. there are gradations to evidence.

  304. 無名 - wu ming

    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese). that being said, pseudonymous is not the same as anonymous; pseudonymous posters tend to build up a reputation through a history of comments, whereas truly anonymous ones are indistinguishable from other anonymous ones, and often (but not always) act as if they are not responsible for what they write.

    at any rate, getting back to the original point of the thread, there’s no way anyone should be quoting anything i write online as an official journalistic source. there are gradations to evidence.

  305. Bob Woodward

    What’s the latest on Wintersgate? I thought Winters and Spector were going to make some announcement today to clear this all up.

    DPD, can you post an update on a new thread? This one is too long.

  306. Bob Woodward

    What’s the latest on Wintersgate? I thought Winters and Spector were going to make some announcement today to clear this all up.

    DPD, can you post an update on a new thread? This one is too long.

  307. Bob Woodward

    What’s the latest on Wintersgate? I thought Winters and Spector were going to make some announcement today to clear this all up.

    DPD, can you post an update on a new thread? This one is too long.

  308. Bob Woodward

    What’s the latest on Wintersgate? I thought Winters and Spector were going to make some announcement today to clear this all up.

    DPD, can you post an update on a new thread? This one is too long.

  309. Blog Administrator

    Kay Graham… the moderators will be weeding this thread for nonsense that trivializes serious Vanguard community dialogue. . Please find your amusement elseware.

  310. Blog Administrator

    Kay Graham… the moderators will be weeding this thread for nonsense that trivializes serious Vanguard community dialogue. . Please find your amusement elseware.

  311. Blog Administrator

    Kay Graham… the moderators will be weeding this thread for nonsense that trivializes serious Vanguard community dialogue. . Please find your amusement elseware.

  312. Blog Administrator

    Kay Graham… the moderators will be weeding this thread for nonsense that trivializes serious Vanguard community dialogue. . Please find your amusement elseware.

  313. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming said…
    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese).

    wu ming:
    I think anonymous 2:05 was just giving you a compliment on your witty moniker…

  314. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming said…
    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese).

    wu ming:
    I think anonymous 2:05 was just giving you a compliment on your witty moniker…

  315. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming said…
    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese).

    wu ming:
    I think anonymous 2:05 was just giving you a compliment on your witty moniker…

  316. Anonymous

    無名 – wu ming said…
    congratulations, anonymous 2:05, for figuring out the meaning of the pseudonym. it’s about time somebody noticed (it’s obvious enough in chinese).

    wu ming:
    I think anonymous 2:05 was just giving you a compliment on your witty moniker…

  317. Anonymous

    For those of you who no longer read the Enterprise b/c of your concerns about journalistic integrity, attached is the column by Bob Dunning, which Don Shor mentioned in an earlier post. I think this probably eliminates any need for DPD and the good people of Davis to spend any more time pondering what happened.

    Davis Enterprise, The (CA)

    What happened at Davis High? You decide
    Published: October 23, 2007
    I don’t know about you, but if I were a respected longtime teacher at Davis High School who had been accused of some political skullduggery that involved my students, I’d be standing on the highest rooftop to deny my involvement. Especially if I didn’t do it.

    And I wouldn’t hesitate to talk with any newspaper reporter who called for a clarification of what actually happened.

    Additionally, if I were the candidate for Davis school board who allegedly benefited from the political skullduggery, I’d call a news conference to directly address the charges and answer any and all questions anyone might have.

    All of which is why I’m completely baffled by the responses of the DHS teacher, Don Winters, and the school board candidate, Joe Spector, to the well-publicized, front-page charges that Winters had students stuff envelopes with Spector’s campaign literature during class time. Winters, it should be noted, is Spector’s campaign manager.

    According to Jeff Hudson’s piece in The Davis Enterprise on Friday, “B.J. Kline, a former board member, brought the alleged incident to the attention of Davis High Principal Mike Cawley, two current school board members and The Enterprise.”

    Kline told Hudson: “This is campaigning at its worst. It should not be allowed to happen.”

    It goes without saying that such activity, if true, is flat-out wrong. While it is certainly good to encourage our students to get involved in the issues of the day, and even to participate in specific campaigns on their own time, they shouldn’t be used as pawns in the service of a particular issue or candidate.

    The big question, of course, is did any of this happen? According to Hudson’s piece, “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Those Spector supporters who were hoping for a flat denial by Winters had to be disappointed by a statement that didn’t even address the charges.

    But maybe Spector recognized the seriousness of the matter and wanted to handle the denial all by himself. Oddly, at least for my money, Spector’s official written statement used all of 277 words, but not a one of them mentioned Winters or made direct reference to the issue at hand. As with Winters’ “no further comment” comment, there was no denial in Spector’s statement either.

    Under the heading “Clarification of Student Campaign Participation Policy,” Spector writes: “It has come to my attention that questions have been raised about student participation in the school board campaigns. I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Which isn’t the concern Kline was expressing at all. And here we go again, blaming the messenger instead of addressing the message. True enough, Kline does support another candidate, but nearly all political wrongdoing is reported by someone in the opposition camp. Why not just deny the charges — if, of course, they’re false — then point out that the person making the allegations is working for someone else? The lack of a denial from either Spector or Winters is telling.

    The rest of Spector’s statement is basically a thank you to his “student helpers” that doesn’t go near the question of whether or not they were doing their “helping” during class time under Winters’ supervision. The closest he gets is the declaration that “students are welcome to work on the campaign outside of instructional time,” a statement that begs the question at hand. If it didn’t happen, Joe, why not just address it head-on and say there is no truth to the charges?

    Kline, in an e-mail to me, wrote, “My daughter came home from school Monday and told me that in her class (taught by Don Winters) they stuffed envelopes for Joe Spector’s campaign. According to my daughter, at least one student refused to do this.”

    Winters, responding to my short e-mail that asked simply “What happened or didn’t happen?” never got around to answering the question of whether students used class time to stuff envelopes for the Spector campaign.

    In his e-mail, Winters wrote: “I guess what the highly educated voter in Davis will have to decide is not so much ‘did it happen,’ but does it matter?”

    It matters, Don, it matters.

    Added Winters: “One would have to wonder how much larger the headline and how much bigger the photo on the front page of Davis’ only paper would have been if I robbed a bank to level the financial playing field of lobbyists, attorneys, developers and out-of-town special interest groups contributing to Joe’s opponent(s)?”

    Is he hinting that stuffing envelopes during class time might be justifiable to level the playing field in this campaign? If so, my answer would be “no.”

    So, after all this, we’re left with two simple questions. First, did it happen? And second, as Don Winters asks, does it matter?

    I guess that’s for you, the voters, to decide.

  318. Anonymous

    For those of you who no longer read the Enterprise b/c of your concerns about journalistic integrity, attached is the column by Bob Dunning, which Don Shor mentioned in an earlier post. I think this probably eliminates any need for DPD and the good people of Davis to spend any more time pondering what happened.

    Davis Enterprise, The (CA)

    What happened at Davis High? You decide
    Published: October 23, 2007
    I don’t know about you, but if I were a respected longtime teacher at Davis High School who had been accused of some political skullduggery that involved my students, I’d be standing on the highest rooftop to deny my involvement. Especially if I didn’t do it.

    And I wouldn’t hesitate to talk with any newspaper reporter who called for a clarification of what actually happened.

    Additionally, if I were the candidate for Davis school board who allegedly benefited from the political skullduggery, I’d call a news conference to directly address the charges and answer any and all questions anyone might have.

    All of which is why I’m completely baffled by the responses of the DHS teacher, Don Winters, and the school board candidate, Joe Spector, to the well-publicized, front-page charges that Winters had students stuff envelopes with Spector’s campaign literature during class time. Winters, it should be noted, is Spector’s campaign manager.

    According to Jeff Hudson’s piece in The Davis Enterprise on Friday, “B.J. Kline, a former board member, brought the alleged incident to the attention of Davis High Principal Mike Cawley, two current school board members and The Enterprise.”

    Kline told Hudson: “This is campaigning at its worst. It should not be allowed to happen.”

    It goes without saying that such activity, if true, is flat-out wrong. While it is certainly good to encourage our students to get involved in the issues of the day, and even to participate in specific campaigns on their own time, they shouldn’t be used as pawns in the service of a particular issue or candidate.

    The big question, of course, is did any of this happen? According to Hudson’s piece, “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Those Spector supporters who were hoping for a flat denial by Winters had to be disappointed by a statement that didn’t even address the charges.

    But maybe Spector recognized the seriousness of the matter and wanted to handle the denial all by himself. Oddly, at least for my money, Spector’s official written statement used all of 277 words, but not a one of them mentioned Winters or made direct reference to the issue at hand. As with Winters’ “no further comment” comment, there was no denial in Spector’s statement either.

    Under the heading “Clarification of Student Campaign Participation Policy,” Spector writes: “It has come to my attention that questions have been raised about student participation in the school board campaigns. I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Which isn’t the concern Kline was expressing at all. And here we go again, blaming the messenger instead of addressing the message. True enough, Kline does support another candidate, but nearly all political wrongdoing is reported by someone in the opposition camp. Why not just deny the charges — if, of course, they’re false — then point out that the person making the allegations is working for someone else? The lack of a denial from either Spector or Winters is telling.

    The rest of Spector’s statement is basically a thank you to his “student helpers” that doesn’t go near the question of whether or not they were doing their “helping” during class time under Winters’ supervision. The closest he gets is the declaration that “students are welcome to work on the campaign outside of instructional time,” a statement that begs the question at hand. If it didn’t happen, Joe, why not just address it head-on and say there is no truth to the charges?

    Kline, in an e-mail to me, wrote, “My daughter came home from school Monday and told me that in her class (taught by Don Winters) they stuffed envelopes for Joe Spector’s campaign. According to my daughter, at least one student refused to do this.”

    Winters, responding to my short e-mail that asked simply “What happened or didn’t happen?” never got around to answering the question of whether students used class time to stuff envelopes for the Spector campaign.

    In his e-mail, Winters wrote: “I guess what the highly educated voter in Davis will have to decide is not so much ‘did it happen,’ but does it matter?”

    It matters, Don, it matters.

    Added Winters: “One would have to wonder how much larger the headline and how much bigger the photo on the front page of Davis’ only paper would have been if I robbed a bank to level the financial playing field of lobbyists, attorneys, developers and out-of-town special interest groups contributing to Joe’s opponent(s)?”

    Is he hinting that stuffing envelopes during class time might be justifiable to level the playing field in this campaign? If so, my answer would be “no.”

    So, after all this, we’re left with two simple questions. First, did it happen? And second, as Don Winters asks, does it matter?

    I guess that’s for you, the voters, to decide.

  319. Anonymous

    For those of you who no longer read the Enterprise b/c of your concerns about journalistic integrity, attached is the column by Bob Dunning, which Don Shor mentioned in an earlier post. I think this probably eliminates any need for DPD and the good people of Davis to spend any more time pondering what happened.

    Davis Enterprise, The (CA)

    What happened at Davis High? You decide
    Published: October 23, 2007
    I don’t know about you, but if I were a respected longtime teacher at Davis High School who had been accused of some political skullduggery that involved my students, I’d be standing on the highest rooftop to deny my involvement. Especially if I didn’t do it.

    And I wouldn’t hesitate to talk with any newspaper reporter who called for a clarification of what actually happened.

    Additionally, if I were the candidate for Davis school board who allegedly benefited from the political skullduggery, I’d call a news conference to directly address the charges and answer any and all questions anyone might have.

    All of which is why I’m completely baffled by the responses of the DHS teacher, Don Winters, and the school board candidate, Joe Spector, to the well-publicized, front-page charges that Winters had students stuff envelopes with Spector’s campaign literature during class time. Winters, it should be noted, is Spector’s campaign manager.

    According to Jeff Hudson’s piece in The Davis Enterprise on Friday, “B.J. Kline, a former board member, brought the alleged incident to the attention of Davis High Principal Mike Cawley, two current school board members and The Enterprise.”

    Kline told Hudson: “This is campaigning at its worst. It should not be allowed to happen.”

    It goes without saying that such activity, if true, is flat-out wrong. While it is certainly good to encourage our students to get involved in the issues of the day, and even to participate in specific campaigns on their own time, they shouldn’t be used as pawns in the service of a particular issue or candidate.

    The big question, of course, is did any of this happen? According to Hudson’s piece, “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Those Spector supporters who were hoping for a flat denial by Winters had to be disappointed by a statement that didn’t even address the charges.

    But maybe Spector recognized the seriousness of the matter and wanted to handle the denial all by himself. Oddly, at least for my money, Spector’s official written statement used all of 277 words, but not a one of them mentioned Winters or made direct reference to the issue at hand. As with Winters’ “no further comment” comment, there was no denial in Spector’s statement either.

    Under the heading “Clarification of Student Campaign Participation Policy,” Spector writes: “It has come to my attention that questions have been raised about student participation in the school board campaigns. I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Which isn’t the concern Kline was expressing at all. And here we go again, blaming the messenger instead of addressing the message. True enough, Kline does support another candidate, but nearly all political wrongdoing is reported by someone in the opposition camp. Why not just deny the charges — if, of course, they’re false — then point out that the person making the allegations is working for someone else? The lack of a denial from either Spector or Winters is telling.

    The rest of Spector’s statement is basically a thank you to his “student helpers” that doesn’t go near the question of whether or not they were doing their “helping” during class time under Winters’ supervision. The closest he gets is the declaration that “students are welcome to work on the campaign outside of instructional time,” a statement that begs the question at hand. If it didn’t happen, Joe, why not just address it head-on and say there is no truth to the charges?

    Kline, in an e-mail to me, wrote, “My daughter came home from school Monday and told me that in her class (taught by Don Winters) they stuffed envelopes for Joe Spector’s campaign. According to my daughter, at least one student refused to do this.”

    Winters, responding to my short e-mail that asked simply “What happened or didn’t happen?” never got around to answering the question of whether students used class time to stuff envelopes for the Spector campaign.

    In his e-mail, Winters wrote: “I guess what the highly educated voter in Davis will have to decide is not so much ‘did it happen,’ but does it matter?”

    It matters, Don, it matters.

    Added Winters: “One would have to wonder how much larger the headline and how much bigger the photo on the front page of Davis’ only paper would have been if I robbed a bank to level the financial playing field of lobbyists, attorneys, developers and out-of-town special interest groups contributing to Joe’s opponent(s)?”

    Is he hinting that stuffing envelopes during class time might be justifiable to level the playing field in this campaign? If so, my answer would be “no.”

    So, after all this, we’re left with two simple questions. First, did it happen? And second, as Don Winters asks, does it matter?

    I guess that’s for you, the voters, to decide.

  320. Anonymous

    For those of you who no longer read the Enterprise b/c of your concerns about journalistic integrity, attached is the column by Bob Dunning, which Don Shor mentioned in an earlier post. I think this probably eliminates any need for DPD and the good people of Davis to spend any more time pondering what happened.

    Davis Enterprise, The (CA)

    What happened at Davis High? You decide
    Published: October 23, 2007
    I don’t know about you, but if I were a respected longtime teacher at Davis High School who had been accused of some political skullduggery that involved my students, I’d be standing on the highest rooftop to deny my involvement. Especially if I didn’t do it.

    And I wouldn’t hesitate to talk with any newspaper reporter who called for a clarification of what actually happened.

    Additionally, if I were the candidate for Davis school board who allegedly benefited from the political skullduggery, I’d call a news conference to directly address the charges and answer any and all questions anyone might have.

    All of which is why I’m completely baffled by the responses of the DHS teacher, Don Winters, and the school board candidate, Joe Spector, to the well-publicized, front-page charges that Winters had students stuff envelopes with Spector’s campaign literature during class time. Winters, it should be noted, is Spector’s campaign manager.

    According to Jeff Hudson’s piece in The Davis Enterprise on Friday, “B.J. Kline, a former board member, brought the alleged incident to the attention of Davis High Principal Mike Cawley, two current school board members and The Enterprise.”

    Kline told Hudson: “This is campaigning at its worst. It should not be allowed to happen.”

    It goes without saying that such activity, if true, is flat-out wrong. While it is certainly good to encourage our students to get involved in the issues of the day, and even to participate in specific campaigns on their own time, they shouldn’t be used as pawns in the service of a particular issue or candidate.

    The big question, of course, is did any of this happen? According to Hudson’s piece, “Winters said Spector would issue a statement on the campaign’s behalf, and that he’d have no further comment.”

    Those Spector supporters who were hoping for a flat denial by Winters had to be disappointed by a statement that didn’t even address the charges.

    But maybe Spector recognized the seriousness of the matter and wanted to handle the denial all by himself. Oddly, at least for my money, Spector’s official written statement used all of 277 words, but not a one of them mentioned Winters or made direct reference to the issue at hand. As with Winters’ “no further comment” comment, there was no denial in Spector’s statement either.

    Under the heading “Clarification of Student Campaign Participation Policy,” Spector writes: “It has come to my attention that questions have been raised about student participation in the school board campaigns. I understand that Mr. Kline, a supporter of another candidate’s campaign, has expressed concern about the broad support that I am getting from students.”

    Which isn’t the concern Kline was expressing at all. And here we go again, blaming the messenger instead of addressing the message. True enough, Kline does support another candidate, but nearly all political wrongdoing is reported by someone in the opposition camp. Why not just deny the charges — if, of course, they’re false — then point out that the person making the allegations is working for someone else? The lack of a denial from either Spector or Winters is telling.

    The rest of Spector’s statement is basically a thank you to his “student helpers” that doesn’t go near the question of whether or not they were doing their “helping” during class time under Winters’ supervision. The closest he gets is the declaration that “students are welcome to work on the campaign outside of instructional time,” a statement that begs the question at hand. If it didn’t happen, Joe, why not just address it head-on and say there is no truth to the charges?

    Kline, in an e-mail to me, wrote, “My daughter came home from school Monday and told me that in her class (taught by Don Winters) they stuffed envelopes for Joe Spector’s campaign. According to my daughter, at least one student refused to do this.”

    Winters, responding to my short e-mail that asked simply “What happened or didn’t happen?” never got around to answering the question of whether students used class time to stuff envelopes for the Spector campaign.

    In his e-mail, Winters wrote: “I guess what the highly educated voter in Davis will have to decide is not so much ‘did it happen,’ but does it matter?”

    It matters, Don, it matters.

    Added Winters: “One would have to wonder how much larger the headline and how much bigger the photo on the front page of Davis’ only paper would have been if I robbed a bank to level the financial playing field of lobbyists, attorneys, developers and out-of-town special interest groups contributing to Joe’s opponent(s)?”

    Is he hinting that stuffing envelopes during class time might be justifiable to level the playing field in this campaign? If so, my answer would be “no.”

    So, after all this, we’re left with two simple questions. First, did it happen? And second, as Don Winters asks, does it matter?

    I guess that’s for you, the voters, to decide.

  321. Anonymous

    So now we have Bob Dunning’s version of events, filtered through his account of a conversation B.J. Kline had with his daughter vs. this earlier post on this thread:

    High School Govt. Student said…
    “I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity….”

    Perhaps if more students and teachers who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question, maybe a clearer picture of what actually happened will emerge.

  322. Anonymous

    So now we have Bob Dunning’s version of events, filtered through his account of a conversation B.J. Kline had with his daughter vs. this earlier post on this thread:

    High School Govt. Student said…
    “I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity….”

    Perhaps if more students and teachers who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question, maybe a clearer picture of what actually happened will emerge.

  323. Anonymous

    So now we have Bob Dunning’s version of events, filtered through his account of a conversation B.J. Kline had with his daughter vs. this earlier post on this thread:

    High School Govt. Student said…
    “I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity….”

    Perhaps if more students and teachers who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question, maybe a clearer picture of what actually happened will emerge.

  324. Anonymous

    So now we have Bob Dunning’s version of events, filtered through his account of a conversation B.J. Kline had with his daughter vs. this earlier post on this thread:

    High School Govt. Student said…
    “I’m sorry, but it was never clear at all to me that this envelope stuffing supposedly happened in only one class. I was interviewed for this article, because I am in one of Don Winters’ AP Government classes. I said that this didn’t happen, because it didn’t. I fail to understand why Mr. Winters would have his econ class stuff envelopes as “an exercise in ‘division of labor,'” as one reader just said, without then assigning the project to his gov classes as an exercise of political involvement.

    As was stated in this article, he told the class that envelope stuffing was going to happen at lunch (the ethics of which I am fully willing to debate if someone brings it up) but he canceled it after a meeting with Mr. Cawley at the beginning of lunch that day (I believe this was Tuesday). Keep in mind that this meeting with Mr. Cawley happened after my morning gov class. Why would Mr. Winters have used his econ class for his candidates political gain and not used the readily available resources of his government classes as well? It didn’t happen. That’s why.

    Through a series of misinterpretation of facts and bending of facts, a canceled lunchtime activity has turned into a class activity….”

    Perhaps if more students and teachers who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question, maybe a clearer picture of what actually happened will emerge.

  325. davisite

    Don Winters has been around in this town long enough to know what happens when you start exchanging emails with Dunning. Winter’s response appears to be a CALCULATED non-response to Dunning. Winters is too savvy to fall for this baiting after he has decided that he would not get into a public “pissing match”.
    Dunning and the Enterprise’s journalistic improprieties smacks of their hyping of the Buzayan affair and has the unanticipated potential of galvanizing support for Spector.

  326. davisite

    Don Winters has been around in this town long enough to know what happens when you start exchanging emails with Dunning. Winter’s response appears to be a CALCULATED non-response to Dunning. Winters is too savvy to fall for this baiting after he has decided that he would not get into a public “pissing match”.
    Dunning and the Enterprise’s journalistic improprieties smacks of their hyping of the Buzayan affair and has the unanticipated potential of galvanizing support for Spector.

  327. davisite

    Don Winters has been around in this town long enough to know what happens when you start exchanging emails with Dunning. Winter’s response appears to be a CALCULATED non-response to Dunning. Winters is too savvy to fall for this baiting after he has decided that he would not get into a public “pissing match”.
    Dunning and the Enterprise’s journalistic improprieties smacks of their hyping of the Buzayan affair and has the unanticipated potential of galvanizing support for Spector.

  328. davisite

    Don Winters has been around in this town long enough to know what happens when you start exchanging emails with Dunning. Winter’s response appears to be a CALCULATED non-response to Dunning. Winters is too savvy to fall for this baiting after he has decided that he would not get into a public “pissing match”.
    Dunning and the Enterprise’s journalistic improprieties smacks of their hyping of the Buzayan affair and has the unanticipated potential of galvanizing support for Spector.

  329. don shor

    It isn’t baiting, davisite. His response to Bob Dunning makes it very clear to me that he did exactly what he was accused of doing. I would urge folks to stop blaming the messenger (BJ Kline, Bob Dunning). I would urge that the Vanguard follow up on this issue and let the chips fall where they may.

  330. don shor

    It isn’t baiting, davisite. His response to Bob Dunning makes it very clear to me that he did exactly what he was accused of doing. I would urge folks to stop blaming the messenger (BJ Kline, Bob Dunning). I would urge that the Vanguard follow up on this issue and let the chips fall where they may.

  331. don shor

    It isn’t baiting, davisite. His response to Bob Dunning makes it very clear to me that he did exactly what he was accused of doing. I would urge folks to stop blaming the messenger (BJ Kline, Bob Dunning). I would urge that the Vanguard follow up on this issue and let the chips fall where they may.

  332. don shor

    It isn’t baiting, davisite. His response to Bob Dunning makes it very clear to me that he did exactly what he was accused of doing. I would urge folks to stop blaming the messenger (BJ Kline, Bob Dunning). I would urge that the Vanguard follow up on this issue and let the chips fall where they may.

  333. davisite

    Don…your “vision” here is clouded, not clear.. Winters’ statements are non-responsive to the question put to him.. that is all that one can derive from them. Having crossed email swords with Dunning in the past myself, I well understand Winters non-response decision as Dunning has “all the ink” and notoriously abuses
    it. To date, the factual details have not been revealed.

  334. davisite

    Don…your “vision” here is clouded, not clear.. Winters’ statements are non-responsive to the question put to him.. that is all that one can derive from them. Having crossed email swords with Dunning in the past myself, I well understand Winters non-response decision as Dunning has “all the ink” and notoriously abuses
    it. To date, the factual details have not been revealed.

  335. davisite

    Don…your “vision” here is clouded, not clear.. Winters’ statements are non-responsive to the question put to him.. that is all that one can derive from them. Having crossed email swords with Dunning in the past myself, I well understand Winters non-response decision as Dunning has “all the ink” and notoriously abuses
    it. To date, the factual details have not been revealed.

  336. davisite

    Don…your “vision” here is clouded, not clear.. Winters’ statements are non-responsive to the question put to him.. that is all that one can derive from them. Having crossed email swords with Dunning in the past myself, I well understand Winters non-response decision as Dunning has “all the ink” and notoriously abuses
    it. To date, the factual details have not been revealed.

  337. Anonymous

    Sorry, here’s a clearer rewrite of my original post,
    Anonymous 10/24/07 8:00 AM

    Perhaps if more students and teachers (and the principal)who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question come forward and give their accounts of what actually happened, maybe a clearer picture of the disputed events in the classroom in question will emerge.

    And then, I might add, let the factual chips fall where they may.

  338. Anonymous

    Sorry, here’s a clearer rewrite of my original post,
    Anonymous 10/24/07 8:00 AM

    Perhaps if more students and teachers (and the principal)who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question come forward and give their accounts of what actually happened, maybe a clearer picture of the disputed events in the classroom in question will emerge.

    And then, I might add, let the factual chips fall where they may.

  339. Anonymous

    Sorry, here’s a clearer rewrite of my original post,
    Anonymous 10/24/07 8:00 AM

    Perhaps if more students and teachers (and the principal)who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question come forward and give their accounts of what actually happened, maybe a clearer picture of the disputed events in the classroom in question will emerge.

    And then, I might add, let the factual chips fall where they may.

  340. Anonymous

    Sorry, here’s a clearer rewrite of my original post,
    Anonymous 10/24/07 8:00 AM

    Perhaps if more students and teachers (and the principal)who were actually in the Davis High School building on the day in question come forward and give their accounts of what actually happened, maybe a clearer picture of the disputed events in the classroom in question will emerge.

    And then, I might add, let the factual chips fall where they may.

  341. davisite

    Don Winters’ non-responsive tangential ruminations in response to Dunning’s email left Dunning with very weak fodder to be manipulated into his usual fare…a lesson for those who receive Dunning’s emails in the future.

  342. davisite

    Don Winters’ non-responsive tangential ruminations in response to Dunning’s email left Dunning with very weak fodder to be manipulated into his usual fare…a lesson for those who receive Dunning’s emails in the future.

  343. davisite

    Don Winters’ non-responsive tangential ruminations in response to Dunning’s email left Dunning with very weak fodder to be manipulated into his usual fare…a lesson for those who receive Dunning’s emails in the future.

  344. davisite

    Don Winters’ non-responsive tangential ruminations in response to Dunning’s email left Dunning with very weak fodder to be manipulated into his usual fare…a lesson for those who receive Dunning’s emails in the future.

  345. don shor

    You are being blinded by your partisan loyalties.
    I happen to think Spector would be a good board member. I respect Don Winters. But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.

  346. don shor

    You are being blinded by your partisan loyalties.
    I happen to think Spector would be a good board member. I respect Don Winters. But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.

  347. don shor

    You are being blinded by your partisan loyalties.
    I happen to think Spector would be a good board member. I respect Don Winters. But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.

  348. don shor

    You are being blinded by your partisan loyalties.
    I happen to think Spector would be a good board member. I respect Don Winters. But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.

  349. davisite

    Don… As I remember it, throughout the entire Buzayan student suspension/teacher quitting affair, the public was NEVER privy to any official accounting of what exactly transpired and NO public clarifying statements were made by the teacher or administration. I am guessing that there are quite clear guidelines(agreements) set out by the DJUSD and teachers’union(members) that determine how these situations are handled.

  350. davisite

    Don… As I remember it, throughout the entire Buzayan student suspension/teacher quitting affair, the public was NEVER privy to any official accounting of what exactly transpired and NO public clarifying statements were made by the teacher or administration. I am guessing that there are quite clear guidelines(agreements) set out by the DJUSD and teachers’union(members) that determine how these situations are handled.

  351. davisite

    Don… As I remember it, throughout the entire Buzayan student suspension/teacher quitting affair, the public was NEVER privy to any official accounting of what exactly transpired and NO public clarifying statements were made by the teacher or administration. I am guessing that there are quite clear guidelines(agreements) set out by the DJUSD and teachers’union(members) that determine how these situations are handled.

  352. davisite

    Don… As I remember it, throughout the entire Buzayan student suspension/teacher quitting affair, the public was NEVER privy to any official accounting of what exactly transpired and NO public clarifying statements were made by the teacher or administration. I am guessing that there are quite clear guidelines(agreements) set out by the DJUSD and teachers’union(members) that determine how these situations are handled.

  353. davisite

    “But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.”

    A telling response, Don…
    Winters’ private email responses to Dunning’s email do appear to be a calculated non-response that disrespects and denigrates Dunning’s importance
    (believed by many to be well-deserved) …. something that dad’s very often ground their sons for.

  354. davisite

    “But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.”

    A telling response, Don…
    Winters’ private email responses to Dunning’s email do appear to be a calculated non-response that disrespects and denigrates Dunning’s importance
    (believed by many to be well-deserved) …. something that dad’s very often ground their sons for.

  355. davisite

    “But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.”

    A telling response, Don…
    Winters’ private email responses to Dunning’s email do appear to be a calculated non-response that disrespects and denigrates Dunning’s importance
    (believed by many to be well-deserved) …. something that dad’s very often ground their sons for.

  356. davisite

    “But if my son gave me a non-answer such as Don Winters has given to (1) Jeff Hudson, and (2) Bob Dunning, he would be grounded.”

    A telling response, Don…
    Winters’ private email responses to Dunning’s email do appear to be a calculated non-response that disrespects and denigrates Dunning’s importance
    (believed by many to be well-deserved) …. something that dad’s very often ground their sons for.

  357. 無名 - wu ming

    i just hope that we eventually see a follow-up, with a clear description of the event, backed with (non-interested) witnesses to the event.

    is that too much to ask of the enterprise? surely a front page scandal deserves such treatment.

  358. 無名 - wu ming

    i just hope that we eventually see a follow-up, with a clear description of the event, backed with (non-interested) witnesses to the event.

    is that too much to ask of the enterprise? surely a front page scandal deserves such treatment.

  359. 無名 - wu ming

    i just hope that we eventually see a follow-up, with a clear description of the event, backed with (non-interested) witnesses to the event.

    is that too much to ask of the enterprise? surely a front page scandal deserves such treatment.

  360. 無名 - wu ming

    i just hope that we eventually see a follow-up, with a clear description of the event, backed with (non-interested) witnesses to the event.

    is that too much to ask of the enterprise? surely a front page scandal deserves such treatment.

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