Commentary: This is a Lesson of Accountability

Throughout the City Council election the lesson was one of “the cost to live in Davis” for the taxpayers. Throughout California public safety salaries and pensions are putting increasing strains on city budgets. However, the chief lesson that we can take away from the grand jury report is not primarily a fiscal lesson. That lesson we already have learned and understand that lesson to some extent.

The lesson to be learned from the Yolo County Grand Jury report is what happens when there is no accountability. What happens when there are no checks and balances in place. I have always been a strong union supporter. The reason for this is that unions advocate for their employees. The reason we have things like 40 hour work weeks, vacation time, medical leave, health insurance and other benefits, minimum wage, and many other protections in place for workers is because these things were fought for–sometimes with real blood and real lives. Management would send in police and mercenaries to physically attempt to break strikes and break the back of labor. Even today, I watch what government employers attempt to do to government employees, and without strong union representation, many of these employees would have little recourse.

At the same time, there is a separation between the employees and the employers. The idea of collective bargaining is that two sides with disparate interests sit down at the bargaining table and hammer out an agreement mutually beneficial to both sides. In the case of government unions, management represents in part the taxpayers interests.

What we see in Davis is the problem when the management side breaks down. That wall of separation does not exist. The Grand Jury report underscores this in two ways. First, they site the relationship between the Fire Chief, i.e. management, and the union. Second, you have a political body that is again, supposed to provide some kind of overseer role here, but that has been torn away by the strong political organization developed by the union, which has spent a tremendous amount of money to elect people friendly to their interests. In fact, they are the only union in the city that goes to such lengths and as a result, the City Council effectively has provided no oversight or accountability to the fire fighters over a period of years.

With little in the way of oversight or accountability, the outcome is fairly predictable.

We are not surprised to see inconsistent promotion practices nor are we surprised that people who are in leadership positions in the union receive preferential promotions over people not in the unions. No one is providing leadership here and no one is stepping up to stop it.

The Grand Jury report then cites a hostile work environment. We see complaints normally by unions of hostile work environments often with union members receiving discriminatory treatment by management. We see this by supervisors in all walks of life. But in this case, the situation is reversed. People not in the union, people who are critical of the union, those who speak out against the union, are in fact singled out here. And the report goes on to tell of numerous stories. Not just if they speak out against the union, but also if they speak out against the Fire Chief.

Because of this arrangement, we see the appearance of undue union influence in city elections. Nearly every firefighter donated to the city council campaigns. The DFP were the only city employees to donate to city council campaigns. The report suggests in part this was due to pressure from the union on their employees.

All of these very serious problems can be traced back to a lack of oversight. Neither the Fire Chief nor the Council Majority has stepped forward to take a leadership role here and therefore the power of this particular union has been largely unchecked in Davis for many years. There are no consequences to their actions. And from what I understand, the Grand Jury report itself is simply the tip of the ice berg.

The history of such Grand Jury reports suggests that not much will change as the result of this report. It will be interesting to see the response of the Fire Chief, City Manager, and City Councils. It is unclear whether those will be considered public responses or if this is considered a personnel matter protected by confidentiality laws.

What is clear is that the general public is probably not going to even be aware of this. While the Woodland Daily Democrat had a full story on the Grand Jury report as it pertained to Woodland, particularly the Woodland Schools, and posted the report on their website, the Davis Enterprise did not mention it at all. Without local newspaper coverage of this report, the city is free to go about with business as usual, and this pattern will continue.

The single biggest problem I have seen in my nearly two years of covering issues in Davis and Yolo County is that there is little accountability for most actions. Those in power simply continue to try not to rock the boat. And the result is that these things continue to happen until and unless there is enough public uproar to force a change. And it is not limited to the city. How long did people like Tahir Ahad continue to get away with abuse of public trust? Far too long. It cost DJUSD a lot of money. And, very rarely are there ever consequences to be paid. Unfortunately, that was not an isolated incident.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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240 Comments

  1. wdf

    In Woodland there is already an effort in play to petition for a recall of four trustees of the school board. The Grand Jury report has some relevance to that issue in Woodland because it may give more momentum to that effort.

    What can happen next with the GJ report? Can the DA choose to use the report as a basis for prosecution?

    Has anyone contacted the Enterprise staff to let them know about the GJ report?

  2. wdf

    In Woodland there is already an effort in play to petition for a recall of four trustees of the school board. The Grand Jury report has some relevance to that issue in Woodland because it may give more momentum to that effort.

    What can happen next with the GJ report? Can the DA choose to use the report as a basis for prosecution?

    Has anyone contacted the Enterprise staff to let them know about the GJ report?

  3. wdf

    In Woodland there is already an effort in play to petition for a recall of four trustees of the school board. The Grand Jury report has some relevance to that issue in Woodland because it may give more momentum to that effort.

    What can happen next with the GJ report? Can the DA choose to use the report as a basis for prosecution?

    Has anyone contacted the Enterprise staff to let them know about the GJ report?

  4. wdf

    In Woodland there is already an effort in play to petition for a recall of four trustees of the school board. The Grand Jury report has some relevance to that issue in Woodland because it may give more momentum to that effort.

    What can happen next with the GJ report? Can the DA choose to use the report as a basis for prosecution?

    Has anyone contacted the Enterprise staff to let them know about the GJ report?

  5. Anonymous

    And yet Mariko Yamada points a finger at her former opponent, Cabaldon, as ‘beholding to special interests.’ She was te beneficiary of a Davis Firefighter’s Union-hosted barbeque.

    Thank you DPD for telling us about this!

    Wake up, Emptyprise! Start reporting actual news!

  6. Anonymous

    And yet Mariko Yamada points a finger at her former opponent, Cabaldon, as ‘beholding to special interests.’ She was te beneficiary of a Davis Firefighter’s Union-hosted barbeque.

    Thank you DPD for telling us about this!

    Wake up, Emptyprise! Start reporting actual news!

  7. Anonymous

    And yet Mariko Yamada points a finger at her former opponent, Cabaldon, as ‘beholding to special interests.’ She was te beneficiary of a Davis Firefighter’s Union-hosted barbeque.

    Thank you DPD for telling us about this!

    Wake up, Emptyprise! Start reporting actual news!

  8. Anonymous

    And yet Mariko Yamada points a finger at her former opponent, Cabaldon, as ‘beholding to special interests.’ She was te beneficiary of a Davis Firefighter’s Union-hosted barbeque.

    Thank you DPD for telling us about this!

    Wake up, Emptyprise! Start reporting actual news!

  9. campaign watcher

    Mariko doesn’t vote on the fire fighters contract.

    It was wierd to read the Enterprise and find no mention of the report…not at all. It was like it didn’t even happen.

    Of course nothing will change with the Davis Fire Department. The union is too entrenched into the culture of the department. Why would they change?

  10. campaign watcher

    Mariko doesn’t vote on the fire fighters contract.

    It was wierd to read the Enterprise and find no mention of the report…not at all. It was like it didn’t even happen.

    Of course nothing will change with the Davis Fire Department. The union is too entrenched into the culture of the department. Why would they change?

  11. campaign watcher

    Mariko doesn’t vote on the fire fighters contract.

    It was wierd to read the Enterprise and find no mention of the report…not at all. It was like it didn’t even happen.

    Of course nothing will change with the Davis Fire Department. The union is too entrenched into the culture of the department. Why would they change?

  12. campaign watcher

    Mariko doesn’t vote on the fire fighters contract.

    It was wierd to read the Enterprise and find no mention of the report…not at all. It was like it didn’t even happen.

    Of course nothing will change with the Davis Fire Department. The union is too entrenched into the culture of the department. Why would they change?

  13. papajon

    The Davis Enterprise published the entire Grand Jury report Tuesday evening. Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).
    There seems to be a hint that you feel unions have been great for the worker, BUT that public safety unions have gone too far in winning benefits for their members. Could it be that they are at the leading edge of the future? I am sure there were some who felt the “loss” of a 72-hour workweek would disable our country.

  14. papajon

    The Davis Enterprise published the entire Grand Jury report Tuesday evening. Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).
    There seems to be a hint that you feel unions have been great for the worker, BUT that public safety unions have gone too far in winning benefits for their members. Could it be that they are at the leading edge of the future? I am sure there were some who felt the “loss” of a 72-hour workweek would disable our country.

  15. papajon

    The Davis Enterprise published the entire Grand Jury report Tuesday evening. Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).
    There seems to be a hint that you feel unions have been great for the worker, BUT that public safety unions have gone too far in winning benefits for their members. Could it be that they are at the leading edge of the future? I am sure there were some who felt the “loss” of a 72-hour workweek would disable our country.

  16. papajon

    The Davis Enterprise published the entire Grand Jury report Tuesday evening. Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).
    There seems to be a hint that you feel unions have been great for the worker, BUT that public safety unions have gone too far in winning benefits for their members. Could it be that they are at the leading edge of the future? I am sure there were some who felt the “loss” of a 72-hour workweek would disable our country.

  17. disgusted with DFD and council

    The DFD is too entrenched in the pockets of city council members. Unless we the citizens of Davis hold the council accountable and the DFD accountable there will be no change. It will be business as usual.

  18. disgusted with DFD and council

    The DFD is too entrenched in the pockets of city council members. Unless we the citizens of Davis hold the council accountable and the DFD accountable there will be no change. It will be business as usual.

  19. disgusted with DFD and council

    The DFD is too entrenched in the pockets of city council members. Unless we the citizens of Davis hold the council accountable and the DFD accountable there will be no change. It will be business as usual.

  20. disgusted with DFD and council

    The DFD is too entrenched in the pockets of city council members. Unless we the citizens of Davis hold the council accountable and the DFD accountable there will be no change. It will be business as usual.

  21. Vincente

    First of all, the only way they could have posted the entire grand jury report would have been online. I do not see it.

    Moreover, given that most do not read it online, yes there needed to be some story in the print addition.

    I don’t get your point on the leading edge–what collusion and bankruptcy for cities?

  22. Vincente

    First of all, the only way they could have posted the entire grand jury report would have been online. I do not see it.

    Moreover, given that most do not read it online, yes there needed to be some story in the print addition.

    I don’t get your point on the leading edge–what collusion and bankruptcy for cities?

  23. Vincente

    First of all, the only way they could have posted the entire grand jury report would have been online. I do not see it.

    Moreover, given that most do not read it online, yes there needed to be some story in the print addition.

    I don’t get your point on the leading edge–what collusion and bankruptcy for cities?

  24. Vincente

    First of all, the only way they could have posted the entire grand jury report would have been online. I do not see it.

    Moreover, given that most do not read it online, yes there needed to be some story in the print addition.

    I don’t get your point on the leading edge–what collusion and bankruptcy for cities?

  25. Anonymous

    I’m usually posting on here to tell DPD to calm down and look into the real explanations for things, that most things aren’t conspiracies.

    But politically speaking, the Davis Firefighters Union is “the mob” in Davis. You don’t screw with them. They have enormous sway over who gets into office, and they’ll throw a lot of money against you if they don’t want you in.

    Also, when DPD talks about every firefighter donating, it’s a very common practice for unions to “bundle” contributions. They back a candidate, and then write a check for each of those union members for the maximum possible contribution.

    This is part of why the extremely low campaign donation limits in Davis are a problem. If I run for City Council, I can hold a fundraiser and get maybe… 15-20 checks for $100. Or I can get on the good side of a union, and get 50 (or more) checks for $100. Campaign finance limits do not affect unions at all – if they want to give more money, they can just call up the Vacaville Firefighters and have them donate money as well.

  26. Anonymous

    I’m usually posting on here to tell DPD to calm down and look into the real explanations for things, that most things aren’t conspiracies.

    But politically speaking, the Davis Firefighters Union is “the mob” in Davis. You don’t screw with them. They have enormous sway over who gets into office, and they’ll throw a lot of money against you if they don’t want you in.

    Also, when DPD talks about every firefighter donating, it’s a very common practice for unions to “bundle” contributions. They back a candidate, and then write a check for each of those union members for the maximum possible contribution.

    This is part of why the extremely low campaign donation limits in Davis are a problem. If I run for City Council, I can hold a fundraiser and get maybe… 15-20 checks for $100. Or I can get on the good side of a union, and get 50 (or more) checks for $100. Campaign finance limits do not affect unions at all – if they want to give more money, they can just call up the Vacaville Firefighters and have them donate money as well.

  27. Anonymous

    I’m usually posting on here to tell DPD to calm down and look into the real explanations for things, that most things aren’t conspiracies.

    But politically speaking, the Davis Firefighters Union is “the mob” in Davis. You don’t screw with them. They have enormous sway over who gets into office, and they’ll throw a lot of money against you if they don’t want you in.

    Also, when DPD talks about every firefighter donating, it’s a very common practice for unions to “bundle” contributions. They back a candidate, and then write a check for each of those union members for the maximum possible contribution.

    This is part of why the extremely low campaign donation limits in Davis are a problem. If I run for City Council, I can hold a fundraiser and get maybe… 15-20 checks for $100. Or I can get on the good side of a union, and get 50 (or more) checks for $100. Campaign finance limits do not affect unions at all – if they want to give more money, they can just call up the Vacaville Firefighters and have them donate money as well.

  28. Anonymous

    I’m usually posting on here to tell DPD to calm down and look into the real explanations for things, that most things aren’t conspiracies.

    But politically speaking, the Davis Firefighters Union is “the mob” in Davis. You don’t screw with them. They have enormous sway over who gets into office, and they’ll throw a lot of money against you if they don’t want you in.

    Also, when DPD talks about every firefighter donating, it’s a very common practice for unions to “bundle” contributions. They back a candidate, and then write a check for each of those union members for the maximum possible contribution.

    This is part of why the extremely low campaign donation limits in Davis are a problem. If I run for City Council, I can hold a fundraiser and get maybe… 15-20 checks for $100. Or I can get on the good side of a union, and get 50 (or more) checks for $100. Campaign finance limits do not affect unions at all – if they want to give more money, they can just call up the Vacaville Firefighters and have them donate money as well.

  29. Doug Paul Davis

    Papajon:

    I do not see the Grand Jury report on the Davis Enterprise web page. As the previous poster pointed out the Enterprise could not have posted the report in the newspaper. Hence even if they had posted the report online, a newspaper story would have been necessary. Again, I see no evidence that they did post it, I even did a search.

  30. Doug Paul Davis

    Papajon:

    I do not see the Grand Jury report on the Davis Enterprise web page. As the previous poster pointed out the Enterprise could not have posted the report in the newspaper. Hence even if they had posted the report online, a newspaper story would have been necessary. Again, I see no evidence that they did post it, I even did a search.

  31. Doug Paul Davis

    Papajon:

    I do not see the Grand Jury report on the Davis Enterprise web page. As the previous poster pointed out the Enterprise could not have posted the report in the newspaper. Hence even if they had posted the report online, a newspaper story would have been necessary. Again, I see no evidence that they did post it, I even did a search.

  32. Doug Paul Davis

    Papajon:

    I do not see the Grand Jury report on the Davis Enterprise web page. As the previous poster pointed out the Enterprise could not have posted the report in the newspaper. Hence even if they had posted the report online, a newspaper story would have been necessary. Again, I see no evidence that they did post it, I even did a search.

  33. Mike Hart

    Collectivization has many benefits, what Unions have done is identical to what businesses once did with Trusts. They consolidate otherwise weak resources into a meaningful unit and then wield it as a means for increasing those resources for its members. Theodore Roosevelt, a great progressive, recognized that Trusts could not be allowed to grow unchecked as there was no “natural” limits to their potential to harm the public good. At the time, fledgling Unions were shedding blood trying to check the power of the over-bearing industries of the time and their full potential was many years away. Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well…

  34. Mike Hart

    Collectivization has many benefits, what Unions have done is identical to what businesses once did with Trusts. They consolidate otherwise weak resources into a meaningful unit and then wield it as a means for increasing those resources for its members. Theodore Roosevelt, a great progressive, recognized that Trusts could not be allowed to grow unchecked as there was no “natural” limits to their potential to harm the public good. At the time, fledgling Unions were shedding blood trying to check the power of the over-bearing industries of the time and their full potential was many years away. Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well…

  35. Mike Hart

    Collectivization has many benefits, what Unions have done is identical to what businesses once did with Trusts. They consolidate otherwise weak resources into a meaningful unit and then wield it as a means for increasing those resources for its members. Theodore Roosevelt, a great progressive, recognized that Trusts could not be allowed to grow unchecked as there was no “natural” limits to their potential to harm the public good. At the time, fledgling Unions were shedding blood trying to check the power of the over-bearing industries of the time and their full potential was many years away. Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well…

  36. Mike Hart

    Collectivization has many benefits, what Unions have done is identical to what businesses once did with Trusts. They consolidate otherwise weak resources into a meaningful unit and then wield it as a means for increasing those resources for its members. Theodore Roosevelt, a great progressive, recognized that Trusts could not be allowed to grow unchecked as there was no “natural” limits to their potential to harm the public good. At the time, fledgling Unions were shedding blood trying to check the power of the over-bearing industries of the time and their full potential was many years away. Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well…

  37. watching how council responds

    Unions, and fire departments are generally not the problem.

    It’s the lack of checks and balances in place and the people who allow this to continually happen without checks and balances.

    In this case it is the council who has turned a blind eye and the public who doesn’t hold the council accountable for turning a blind eye.

  38. watching how council responds

    Unions, and fire departments are generally not the problem.

    It’s the lack of checks and balances in place and the people who allow this to continually happen without checks and balances.

    In this case it is the council who has turned a blind eye and the public who doesn’t hold the council accountable for turning a blind eye.

  39. watching how council responds

    Unions, and fire departments are generally not the problem.

    It’s the lack of checks and balances in place and the people who allow this to continually happen without checks and balances.

    In this case it is the council who has turned a blind eye and the public who doesn’t hold the council accountable for turning a blind eye.

  40. watching how council responds

    Unions, and fire departments are generally not the problem.

    It’s the lack of checks and balances in place and the people who allow this to continually happen without checks and balances.

    In this case it is the council who has turned a blind eye and the public who doesn’t hold the council accountable for turning a blind eye.

  41. Anonymous

    Papajon said:
    “Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).”

    Papajon… an extrmely weak argument, even for an Enterprise apologist. This is real news and should have been a front-page story. Putting a 28 page report in a separate sectio doesn’t cut it… ..How many readers are going to plow through a 28 page report?

  42. Anonymous

    Papajon said:
    “Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).”

    Papajon… an extrmely weak argument, even for an Enterprise apologist. This is real news and should have been a front-page story. Putting a 28 page report in a separate sectio doesn’t cut it… ..How many readers are going to plow through a 28 page report?

  43. Anonymous

    Papajon said:
    “Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).”

    Papajon… an extrmely weak argument, even for an Enterprise apologist. This is real news and should have been a front-page story. Putting a 28 page report in a separate sectio doesn’t cut it… ..How many readers are going to plow through a 28 page report?

  44. Anonymous

    Papajon said:
    “Was there really a need to write a story about it as well (seems redundant).”

    Papajon… an extrmely weak argument, even for an Enterprise apologist. This is real news and should have been a front-page story. Putting a 28 page report in a separate sectio doesn’t cut it… ..How many readers are going to plow through a 28 page report?

  45. Doug Paul Davis

    “Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well.”

    That may be true in some situations. But I see far too often where workers are still mistreated in the workplace and union representation is their only recourse.

  46. Doug Paul Davis

    “Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well.”

    That may be true in some situations. But I see far too often where workers are still mistreated in the workplace and union representation is their only recourse.

  47. Doug Paul Davis

    “Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well.”

    That may be true in some situations. But I see far too often where workers are still mistreated in the workplace and union representation is their only recourse.

  48. Doug Paul Davis

    “Perhaps it is time to recognize that Unions have expanded far beyond their original intent and become a hazard to the public good as well.”

    That may be true in some situations. But I see far too often where workers are still mistreated in the workplace and union representation is their only recourse.

  49. Anonymous

    Anon 9:28AM

    The report was clear and broken down in areas of interest. The DFD was only a 2 or 3 page part of it.

    There’s no pleasing everyone. You complain about being spoon-fed and also about having to read too much. Quit whining.

  50. Anonymous

    Anon 9:28AM

    The report was clear and broken down in areas of interest. The DFD was only a 2 or 3 page part of it.

    There’s no pleasing everyone. You complain about being spoon-fed and also about having to read too much. Quit whining.

  51. Anonymous

    Anon 9:28AM

    The report was clear and broken down in areas of interest. The DFD was only a 2 or 3 page part of it.

    There’s no pleasing everyone. You complain about being spoon-fed and also about having to read too much. Quit whining.

  52. Anonymous

    Anon 9:28AM

    The report was clear and broken down in areas of interest. The DFD was only a 2 or 3 page part of it.

    There’s no pleasing everyone. You complain about being spoon-fed and also about having to read too much. Quit whining.

  53. different view

    For me there is a signficant distinction between unions in the public sector and unions in the private sector. There is no question in my mind that unions in the private sector have been a great thing and have really advanced worker’s well-being, rights and safety. In the public sector (government moreso than teachers), I think the civil service protections are already pretty stringent and work against an efficient organization, and then layering unions on top of that just makes things even worse. I don’t like public sector unions.

  54. Lipmann

    Give me a break. This is news. Major news. It requires a news story. People need to know what’s in the report, the best way to ensure people not read it is to give them the whole thing in the middle of the paper as an insert. That’s completely and totally irresponsible. Look at the difference between how the Enterprise handled it and the Daily Democrat. They had a news story on it. Good lord. The apologism here is appalling.

  55. different view

    For me there is a signficant distinction between unions in the public sector and unions in the private sector. There is no question in my mind that unions in the private sector have been a great thing and have really advanced worker’s well-being, rights and safety. In the public sector (government moreso than teachers), I think the civil service protections are already pretty stringent and work against an efficient organization, and then layering unions on top of that just makes things even worse. I don’t like public sector unions.

  56. Lipmann

    Give me a break. This is news. Major news. It requires a news story. People need to know what’s in the report, the best way to ensure people not read it is to give them the whole thing in the middle of the paper as an insert. That’s completely and totally irresponsible. Look at the difference between how the Enterprise handled it and the Daily Democrat. They had a news story on it. Good lord. The apologism here is appalling.

  57. different view

    For me there is a signficant distinction between unions in the public sector and unions in the private sector. There is no question in my mind that unions in the private sector have been a great thing and have really advanced worker’s well-being, rights and safety. In the public sector (government moreso than teachers), I think the civil service protections are already pretty stringent and work against an efficient organization, and then layering unions on top of that just makes things even worse. I don’t like public sector unions.

  58. Lipmann

    Give me a break. This is news. Major news. It requires a news story. People need to know what’s in the report, the best way to ensure people not read it is to give them the whole thing in the middle of the paper as an insert. That’s completely and totally irresponsible. Look at the difference between how the Enterprise handled it and the Daily Democrat. They had a news story on it. Good lord. The apologism here is appalling.

  59. different view

    For me there is a signficant distinction between unions in the public sector and unions in the private sector. There is no question in my mind that unions in the private sector have been a great thing and have really advanced worker’s well-being, rights and safety. In the public sector (government moreso than teachers), I think the civil service protections are already pretty stringent and work against an efficient organization, and then layering unions on top of that just makes things even worse. I don’t like public sector unions.

  60. Lipmann

    Give me a break. This is news. Major news. It requires a news story. People need to know what’s in the report, the best way to ensure people not read it is to give them the whole thing in the middle of the paper as an insert. That’s completely and totally irresponsible. Look at the difference between how the Enterprise handled it and the Daily Democrat. They had a news story on it. Good lord. The apologism here is appalling.

  61. Amanda Rice

    Interesting post…and comments. Our town is currently in a bit of a battle over fiscal controls and policies and accountability – but with a Community Services District instead of a city council (since we are unincorporated).
    I’m curious to see how your low accountability/public complacency issues are addressed (or ignored). Anyone interested in the fun politics of small town (especially one not their own!) should check out aboutcambria.com…
    The current issue in Cambria is a second Prop 218 protest of an increase in our water rates – the first one was successful….

    I wish you all well with your local government and media!

    “He who is firmly seated in authority soon learns to think security, and not progress, the highest lesson of statecraft.” James Russell Lowell

    ” It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” – Unknown

  62. Amanda Rice

    Interesting post…and comments. Our town is currently in a bit of a battle over fiscal controls and policies and accountability – but with a Community Services District instead of a city council (since we are unincorporated).
    I’m curious to see how your low accountability/public complacency issues are addressed (or ignored). Anyone interested in the fun politics of small town (especially one not their own!) should check out aboutcambria.com…
    The current issue in Cambria is a second Prop 218 protest of an increase in our water rates – the first one was successful….

    I wish you all well with your local government and media!

    “He who is firmly seated in authority soon learns to think security, and not progress, the highest lesson of statecraft.” James Russell Lowell

    ” It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” – Unknown

  63. Amanda Rice

    Interesting post…and comments. Our town is currently in a bit of a battle over fiscal controls and policies and accountability – but with a Community Services District instead of a city council (since we are unincorporated).
    I’m curious to see how your low accountability/public complacency issues are addressed (or ignored). Anyone interested in the fun politics of small town (especially one not their own!) should check out aboutcambria.com…
    The current issue in Cambria is a second Prop 218 protest of an increase in our water rates – the first one was successful….

    I wish you all well with your local government and media!

    “He who is firmly seated in authority soon learns to think security, and not progress, the highest lesson of statecraft.” James Russell Lowell

    ” It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” – Unknown

  64. Amanda Rice

    Interesting post…and comments. Our town is currently in a bit of a battle over fiscal controls and policies and accountability – but with a Community Services District instead of a city council (since we are unincorporated).
    I’m curious to see how your low accountability/public complacency issues are addressed (or ignored). Anyone interested in the fun politics of small town (especially one not their own!) should check out aboutcambria.com…
    The current issue in Cambria is a second Prop 218 protest of an increase in our water rates – the first one was successful….

    I wish you all well with your local government and media!

    “He who is firmly seated in authority soon learns to think security, and not progress, the highest lesson of statecraft.” James Russell Lowell

    ” It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” – Unknown

  65. jamie

    The price paid for being wrong has to be “stepping down” from the fire dept. for Chief Rose and Bobby the union president and those on the city council who supported this nightmare, i.e. Stephen Souza and Don Saylor.

    Fat chance either will happen.

  66. jamie

    The price paid for being wrong has to be “stepping down” from the fire dept. for Chief Rose and Bobby the union president and those on the city council who supported this nightmare, i.e. Stephen Souza and Don Saylor.

    Fat chance either will happen.

  67. jamie

    The price paid for being wrong has to be “stepping down” from the fire dept. for Chief Rose and Bobby the union president and those on the city council who supported this nightmare, i.e. Stephen Souza and Don Saylor.

    Fat chance either will happen.

  68. jamie

    The price paid for being wrong has to be “stepping down” from the fire dept. for Chief Rose and Bobby the union president and those on the city council who supported this nightmare, i.e. Stephen Souza and Don Saylor.

    Fat chance either will happen.

  69. wdf

    Doug Paul Davis said…
    Thanks anon, totally missed it. Still think they needed to write a story on it however. That’s what the Daily Democrat did.

    I agree. I don’t think many readers understand what the grand jury is there to do, and what the report is for. It really doesn’t help to creat a fully informed public when the context (a newspaper story) for the grand jury report is left out.

    If I were an uninformed reader, the grand jury report would have no more meaning to me than an ad insert the paper.

  70. progressive observer

    When prior Grand Juries have issued their reports the local papers including the Davis Enterprise have often printed articles highlighting portions of the reports that had significance for their local readers.

    For example when past Grand Juries heavily criticizied the Yolo County Housing Authority the Davis Enterprise was all over that report with additional articles about what the GJ was alleging.

    Here we have a situation where the powerful Davis Firefighter’s union and the Davis Fire Department is being significantly criticized by the GJ for gross misbehavior and undue influence on local politics and politicians and the Davis Enterprise does not report any of it? It seems as if the paper has an agenda here and in fact is protecting its friends at the fire department and the beneficiaries of their political work.

  71. wdf

    Doug Paul Davis said…
    Thanks anon, totally missed it. Still think they needed to write a story on it however. That’s what the Daily Democrat did.

    I agree. I don’t think many readers understand what the grand jury is there to do, and what the report is for. It really doesn’t help to creat a fully informed public when the context (a newspaper story) for the grand jury report is left out.

    If I were an uninformed reader, the grand jury report would have no more meaning to me than an ad insert the paper.

  72. progressive observer

    When prior Grand Juries have issued their reports the local papers including the Davis Enterprise have often printed articles highlighting portions of the reports that had significance for their local readers.

    For example when past Grand Juries heavily criticizied the Yolo County Housing Authority the Davis Enterprise was all over that report with additional articles about what the GJ was alleging.

    Here we have a situation where the powerful Davis Firefighter’s union and the Davis Fire Department is being significantly criticized by the GJ for gross misbehavior and undue influence on local politics and politicians and the Davis Enterprise does not report any of it? It seems as if the paper has an agenda here and in fact is protecting its friends at the fire department and the beneficiaries of their political work.

  73. wdf

    Doug Paul Davis said…
    Thanks anon, totally missed it. Still think they needed to write a story on it however. That’s what the Daily Democrat did.

    I agree. I don’t think many readers understand what the grand jury is there to do, and what the report is for. It really doesn’t help to creat a fully informed public when the context (a newspaper story) for the grand jury report is left out.

    If I were an uninformed reader, the grand jury report would have no more meaning to me than an ad insert the paper.

  74. progressive observer

    When prior Grand Juries have issued their reports the local papers including the Davis Enterprise have often printed articles highlighting portions of the reports that had significance for their local readers.

    For example when past Grand Juries heavily criticizied the Yolo County Housing Authority the Davis Enterprise was all over that report with additional articles about what the GJ was alleging.

    Here we have a situation where the powerful Davis Firefighter’s union and the Davis Fire Department is being significantly criticized by the GJ for gross misbehavior and undue influence on local politics and politicians and the Davis Enterprise does not report any of it? It seems as if the paper has an agenda here and in fact is protecting its friends at the fire department and the beneficiaries of their political work.

  75. wdf

    Doug Paul Davis said…
    Thanks anon, totally missed it. Still think they needed to write a story on it however. That’s what the Daily Democrat did.

    I agree. I don’t think many readers understand what the grand jury is there to do, and what the report is for. It really doesn’t help to creat a fully informed public when the context (a newspaper story) for the grand jury report is left out.

    If I were an uninformed reader, the grand jury report would have no more meaning to me than an ad insert the paper.

  76. progressive observer

    When prior Grand Juries have issued their reports the local papers including the Davis Enterprise have often printed articles highlighting portions of the reports that had significance for their local readers.

    For example when past Grand Juries heavily criticizied the Yolo County Housing Authority the Davis Enterprise was all over that report with additional articles about what the GJ was alleging.

    Here we have a situation where the powerful Davis Firefighter’s union and the Davis Fire Department is being significantly criticized by the GJ for gross misbehavior and undue influence on local politics and politicians and the Davis Enterprise does not report any of it? It seems as if the paper has an agenda here and in fact is protecting its friends at the fire department and the beneficiaries of their political work.

  77. progressive observer

    The Grand Jury reports inappropriate behavior by firefighters, their union and department management. It will be interesting to see if City management or the City Council will do anything about these allegations and if proven true disciplines, makes changes or holds anyone accountable because…

    ….the Davis Firefighters Union has been involved in local politics for over 20 years providing big money and volunteers to their favored politicians such as Dave Rosenberg, Helen Thomson, Lois Wolk, Mariko Yamada, Susie Boyd, Ruth Asmundson, Ted Puntillo, Don Saylor, Steve Souza and recently Sydney Vergis. With the exception of Helen Thomson or Mariko Yamada, who never served on the City Council but whose friends and political mentors did, all the others have directly participated in ratifying the overly lucrative pay & benefit contracts that have been given to the firefighters for many years. When it comes time for the City & the Union to negotiate a contract the political capital of the Union comes into play. As a result we are faced with over the top pay and benefit packages for public safety workers that are placing the City’s fiscal house in jeopardy.

  78. progressive observer

    The Grand Jury reports inappropriate behavior by firefighters, their union and department management. It will be interesting to see if City management or the City Council will do anything about these allegations and if proven true disciplines, makes changes or holds anyone accountable because…

    ….the Davis Firefighters Union has been involved in local politics for over 20 years providing big money and volunteers to their favored politicians such as Dave Rosenberg, Helen Thomson, Lois Wolk, Mariko Yamada, Susie Boyd, Ruth Asmundson, Ted Puntillo, Don Saylor, Steve Souza and recently Sydney Vergis. With the exception of Helen Thomson or Mariko Yamada, who never served on the City Council but whose friends and political mentors did, all the others have directly participated in ratifying the overly lucrative pay & benefit contracts that have been given to the firefighters for many years. When it comes time for the City & the Union to negotiate a contract the political capital of the Union comes into play. As a result we are faced with over the top pay and benefit packages for public safety workers that are placing the City’s fiscal house in jeopardy.

  79. progressive observer

    The Grand Jury reports inappropriate behavior by firefighters, their union and department management. It will be interesting to see if City management or the City Council will do anything about these allegations and if proven true disciplines, makes changes or holds anyone accountable because…

    ….the Davis Firefighters Union has been involved in local politics for over 20 years providing big money and volunteers to their favored politicians such as Dave Rosenberg, Helen Thomson, Lois Wolk, Mariko Yamada, Susie Boyd, Ruth Asmundson, Ted Puntillo, Don Saylor, Steve Souza and recently Sydney Vergis. With the exception of Helen Thomson or Mariko Yamada, who never served on the City Council but whose friends and political mentors did, all the others have directly participated in ratifying the overly lucrative pay & benefit contracts that have been given to the firefighters for many years. When it comes time for the City & the Union to negotiate a contract the political capital of the Union comes into play. As a result we are faced with over the top pay and benefit packages for public safety workers that are placing the City’s fiscal house in jeopardy.

  80. progressive observer

    The Grand Jury reports inappropriate behavior by firefighters, their union and department management. It will be interesting to see if City management or the City Council will do anything about these allegations and if proven true disciplines, makes changes or holds anyone accountable because…

    ….the Davis Firefighters Union has been involved in local politics for over 20 years providing big money and volunteers to their favored politicians such as Dave Rosenberg, Helen Thomson, Lois Wolk, Mariko Yamada, Susie Boyd, Ruth Asmundson, Ted Puntillo, Don Saylor, Steve Souza and recently Sydney Vergis. With the exception of Helen Thomson or Mariko Yamada, who never served on the City Council but whose friends and political mentors did, all the others have directly participated in ratifying the overly lucrative pay & benefit contracts that have been given to the firefighters for many years. When it comes time for the City & the Union to negotiate a contract the political capital of the Union comes into play. As a result we are faced with over the top pay and benefit packages for public safety workers that are placing the City’s fiscal house in jeopardy.

  81. paid subscriber

    I read The Davis Enterprise online. I paid to be able to do this. The e-edition (pdfs of the pages of the paper) did not include the report by the Grand Jury. There was not even a link directed to the online report on the Yolo County website. There was no mention of the report in the paper.

    I have to hear about the report on this blog and go search for it on the Yolo County website.

    This is inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise apparently feels that the Grand Jury report with findings about our Fire Department is a non-newsworthy event. It’s inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise would limit the distribution of the report only to its subscribers who receive the paper version of its paper and not the subscribers who have paid for the online version.

  82. paid subscriber

    I read The Davis Enterprise online. I paid to be able to do this. The e-edition (pdfs of the pages of the paper) did not include the report by the Grand Jury. There was not even a link directed to the online report on the Yolo County website. There was no mention of the report in the paper.

    I have to hear about the report on this blog and go search for it on the Yolo County website.

    This is inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise apparently feels that the Grand Jury report with findings about our Fire Department is a non-newsworthy event. It’s inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise would limit the distribution of the report only to its subscribers who receive the paper version of its paper and not the subscribers who have paid for the online version.

  83. paid subscriber

    I read The Davis Enterprise online. I paid to be able to do this. The e-edition (pdfs of the pages of the paper) did not include the report by the Grand Jury. There was not even a link directed to the online report on the Yolo County website. There was no mention of the report in the paper.

    I have to hear about the report on this blog and go search for it on the Yolo County website.

    This is inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise apparently feels that the Grand Jury report with findings about our Fire Department is a non-newsworthy event. It’s inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise would limit the distribution of the report only to its subscribers who receive the paper version of its paper and not the subscribers who have paid for the online version.

  84. paid subscriber

    I read The Davis Enterprise online. I paid to be able to do this. The e-edition (pdfs of the pages of the paper) did not include the report by the Grand Jury. There was not even a link directed to the online report on the Yolo County website. There was no mention of the report in the paper.

    I have to hear about the report on this blog and go search for it on the Yolo County website.

    This is inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise apparently feels that the Grand Jury report with findings about our Fire Department is a non-newsworthy event. It’s inexcusable that The Davis Enterprise would limit the distribution of the report only to its subscribers who receive the paper version of its paper and not the subscribers who have paid for the online version.

  85. paid subscriber

    The findings that I find the most troubling have to do with the hostile working condition created by the Fire Chief and the Union leaders. One lawsuit should have alerted City management. Two lawsuits should have caused heads to roll.

    Our City employees should be treated well. To hear that promotions and educational benefits are not going to the employees most deserving and most qualified is very alarming.

  86. paid subscriber

    The findings that I find the most troubling have to do with the hostile working condition created by the Fire Chief and the Union leaders. One lawsuit should have alerted City management. Two lawsuits should have caused heads to roll.

    Our City employees should be treated well. To hear that promotions and educational benefits are not going to the employees most deserving and most qualified is very alarming.

  87. paid subscriber

    The findings that I find the most troubling have to do with the hostile working condition created by the Fire Chief and the Union leaders. One lawsuit should have alerted City management. Two lawsuits should have caused heads to roll.

    Our City employees should be treated well. To hear that promotions and educational benefits are not going to the employees most deserving and most qualified is very alarming.

  88. paid subscriber

    The findings that I find the most troubling have to do with the hostile working condition created by the Fire Chief and the Union leaders. One lawsuit should have alerted City management. Two lawsuits should have caused heads to roll.

    Our City employees should be treated well. To hear that promotions and educational benefits are not going to the employees most deserving and most qualified is very alarming.

  89. Anonymous

    I find it really odd that The Davis Enterprise somehow managed to post the audio recordings of the Buzayan arrest on its website, but could not somehow include even a link to the Grand Jury report.

  90. Anonymous

    I find it really odd that The Davis Enterprise somehow managed to post the audio recordings of the Buzayan arrest on its website, but could not somehow include even a link to the Grand Jury report.

  91. Anonymous

    I find it really odd that The Davis Enterprise somehow managed to post the audio recordings of the Buzayan arrest on its website, but could not somehow include even a link to the Grand Jury report.

  92. Anonymous

    I find it really odd that The Davis Enterprise somehow managed to post the audio recordings of the Buzayan arrest on its website, but could not somehow include even a link to the Grand Jury report.

  93. tansey thomas

    “Commentary: This is a Lesson of Accountability”

    In this era of “confidentiality” and no accountability on the part of public officials, America has long been on the slipery slope to falling to a top on down no-account leadership who when pressed view themselves as victims and martyrs. From Bush on down haven’t you noticed how they all experience “errors in judgement” or “honest mistakes” when held to account? Haven’t you noticed that their actions are always to be forgiven without “vengeance” while ordinary citizens are thrown under the bus? Think about this.

  94. tansey thomas

    “Commentary: This is a Lesson of Accountability”

    In this era of “confidentiality” and no accountability on the part of public officials, America has long been on the slipery slope to falling to a top on down no-account leadership who when pressed view themselves as victims and martyrs. From Bush on down haven’t you noticed how they all experience “errors in judgement” or “honest mistakes” when held to account? Haven’t you noticed that their actions are always to be forgiven without “vengeance” while ordinary citizens are thrown under the bus? Think about this.

  95. tansey thomas

    “Commentary: This is a Lesson of Accountability”

    In this era of “confidentiality” and no accountability on the part of public officials, America has long been on the slipery slope to falling to a top on down no-account leadership who when pressed view themselves as victims and martyrs. From Bush on down haven’t you noticed how they all experience “errors in judgement” or “honest mistakes” when held to account? Haven’t you noticed that their actions are always to be forgiven without “vengeance” while ordinary citizens are thrown under the bus? Think about this.

  96. tansey thomas

    “Commentary: This is a Lesson of Accountability”

    In this era of “confidentiality” and no accountability on the part of public officials, America has long been on the slipery slope to falling to a top on down no-account leadership who when pressed view themselves as victims and martyrs. From Bush on down haven’t you noticed how they all experience “errors in judgement” or “honest mistakes” when held to account? Haven’t you noticed that their actions are always to be forgiven without “vengeance” while ordinary citizens are thrown under the bus? Think about this.

  97. Anonymous

    DPD,
    “Union problems in some situations”? Someone else wrote that “unions are a plague to cities”. I, and I think the majority of people agree with that statement.
    Working at the Big U has helped me to see what unions do and don’t do. First of all that clown, Gray Davis, signed in a fair share shop because the unions were giving him a financial bj. FORCING all involved to pay union dues to a union one can rarely get adequate help from in time of need.
    FORCING people to pay a group of leeches, how fair and democratic is that? There are plenty of laws on the books that deal with employer/employee abuse. It has also been my many years of experience that the majority of those that complain to the union are whiners,lazy and dead wood in a system they know will roll over for them.
    Unions in Public employment do little good for the taxpayer these days. Unions are greedy and they are at the root of the problem.
    Yes, I have belonged to a union but it was mostly a good one. Of course even back then they held secret meetings, voted and after the fact told the membership what choices had been made. When the membership complained they were told that the union leaders had to vote quickly and did’nt have time to inform the rest of us. Sound like another group of union liars?
    And if you continued to complain you got a visit from a union rep who informed you that your job was in jeopardy. Can you tell all of us about your experiences with unions?
    By the way, that union I spoke of was the RCIA, retail clerks international association. It covered approx 3000 safeway stores.

  98. Anonymous

    DPD,
    “Union problems in some situations”? Someone else wrote that “unions are a plague to cities”. I, and I think the majority of people agree with that statement.
    Working at the Big U has helped me to see what unions do and don’t do. First of all that clown, Gray Davis, signed in a fair share shop because the unions were giving him a financial bj. FORCING all involved to pay union dues to a union one can rarely get adequate help from in time of need.
    FORCING people to pay a group of leeches, how fair and democratic is that? There are plenty of laws on the books that deal with employer/employee abuse. It has also been my many years of experience that the majority of those that complain to the union are whiners,lazy and dead wood in a system they know will roll over for them.
    Unions in Public employment do little good for the taxpayer these days. Unions are greedy and they are at the root of the problem.
    Yes, I have belonged to a union but it was mostly a good one. Of course even back then they held secret meetings, voted and after the fact told the membership what choices had been made. When the membership complained they were told that the union leaders had to vote quickly and did’nt have time to inform the rest of us. Sound like another group of union liars?
    And if you continued to complain you got a visit from a union rep who informed you that your job was in jeopardy. Can you tell all of us about your experiences with unions?
    By the way, that union I spoke of was the RCIA, retail clerks international association. It covered approx 3000 safeway stores.

  99. Anonymous

    DPD,
    “Union problems in some situations”? Someone else wrote that “unions are a plague to cities”. I, and I think the majority of people agree with that statement.
    Working at the Big U has helped me to see what unions do and don’t do. First of all that clown, Gray Davis, signed in a fair share shop because the unions were giving him a financial bj. FORCING all involved to pay union dues to a union one can rarely get adequate help from in time of need.
    FORCING people to pay a group of leeches, how fair and democratic is that? There are plenty of laws on the books that deal with employer/employee abuse. It has also been my many years of experience that the majority of those that complain to the union are whiners,lazy and dead wood in a system they know will roll over for them.
    Unions in Public employment do little good for the taxpayer these days. Unions are greedy and they are at the root of the problem.
    Yes, I have belonged to a union but it was mostly a good one. Of course even back then they held secret meetings, voted and after the fact told the membership what choices had been made. When the membership complained they were told that the union leaders had to vote quickly and did’nt have time to inform the rest of us. Sound like another group of union liars?
    And if you continued to complain you got a visit from a union rep who informed you that your job was in jeopardy. Can you tell all of us about your experiences with unions?
    By the way, that union I spoke of was the RCIA, retail clerks international association. It covered approx 3000 safeway stores.

  100. Anonymous

    DPD,
    “Union problems in some situations”? Someone else wrote that “unions are a plague to cities”. I, and I think the majority of people agree with that statement.
    Working at the Big U has helped me to see what unions do and don’t do. First of all that clown, Gray Davis, signed in a fair share shop because the unions were giving him a financial bj. FORCING all involved to pay union dues to a union one can rarely get adequate help from in time of need.
    FORCING people to pay a group of leeches, how fair and democratic is that? There are plenty of laws on the books that deal with employer/employee abuse. It has also been my many years of experience that the majority of those that complain to the union are whiners,lazy and dead wood in a system they know will roll over for them.
    Unions in Public employment do little good for the taxpayer these days. Unions are greedy and they are at the root of the problem.
    Yes, I have belonged to a union but it was mostly a good one. Of course even back then they held secret meetings, voted and after the fact told the membership what choices had been made. When the membership complained they were told that the union leaders had to vote quickly and did’nt have time to inform the rest of us. Sound like another group of union liars?
    And if you continued to complain you got a visit from a union rep who informed you that your job was in jeopardy. Can you tell all of us about your experiences with unions?
    By the way, that union I spoke of was the RCIA, retail clerks international association. It covered approx 3000 safeway stores.

  101. wdf

    Today’s (Wednesday’s) Enterprise has an article on the grand jury report on the DFD. Also a separate article on the grand jury report on the Woodland JUSD.

  102. wdf

    Today’s (Wednesday’s) Enterprise has an article on the grand jury report on the DFD. Also a separate article on the grand jury report on the Woodland JUSD.

  103. wdf

    Today’s (Wednesday’s) Enterprise has an article on the grand jury report on the DFD. Also a separate article on the grand jury report on the Woodland JUSD.

  104. wdf

    Today’s (Wednesday’s) Enterprise has an article on the grand jury report on the DFD. Also a separate article on the grand jury report on the Woodland JUSD.

  105. Subversive Agent

    What is wrong with you people? If there is a unified group willing to put up money for a person or cause they believe in, do we label them as evil? Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in the politics? We don’t hear about the Davis police officers involvement in politics since we probably don’t pay them enough to live in this republic. I doubt RR could even afford to live in Davis. He most likely lives with his mother who bought the house in nineteen ancient for $5K. Most people in Davis are too cheap to put their money where their mouth is but complaining is much cheaper. Gather your friends together, put in $100 each and DO something! By the way, I doubt the firefighters in Vacaville care anything about Davis politics.

  106. Subversive Agent

    What is wrong with you people? If there is a unified group willing to put up money for a person or cause they believe in, do we label them as evil? Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in the politics? We don’t hear about the Davis police officers involvement in politics since we probably don’t pay them enough to live in this republic. I doubt RR could even afford to live in Davis. He most likely lives with his mother who bought the house in nineteen ancient for $5K. Most people in Davis are too cheap to put their money where their mouth is but complaining is much cheaper. Gather your friends together, put in $100 each and DO something! By the way, I doubt the firefighters in Vacaville care anything about Davis politics.

  107. Subversive Agent

    What is wrong with you people? If there is a unified group willing to put up money for a person or cause they believe in, do we label them as evil? Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in the politics? We don’t hear about the Davis police officers involvement in politics since we probably don’t pay them enough to live in this republic. I doubt RR could even afford to live in Davis. He most likely lives with his mother who bought the house in nineteen ancient for $5K. Most people in Davis are too cheap to put their money where their mouth is but complaining is much cheaper. Gather your friends together, put in $100 each and DO something! By the way, I doubt the firefighters in Vacaville care anything about Davis politics.

  108. Subversive Agent

    What is wrong with you people? If there is a unified group willing to put up money for a person or cause they believe in, do we label them as evil? Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in the politics? We don’t hear about the Davis police officers involvement in politics since we probably don’t pay them enough to live in this republic. I doubt RR could even afford to live in Davis. He most likely lives with his mother who bought the house in nineteen ancient for $5K. Most people in Davis are too cheap to put their money where their mouth is but complaining is much cheaper. Gather your friends together, put in $100 each and DO something! By the way, I doubt the firefighters in Vacaville care anything about Davis politics.

  109. T.T.

    Didn’t a bunch of bloggers complained about how most of the davis firefighters don’t live in davis, therefore, they shouldn’t be involved in local politics during the last campagin season? (BTW, I believe the Consititution gives them the right to participate in politics). According to the GJ report, 80% of davis firefighters live in Davis, well, one begs the question, “if the GJ can’t even get the above question correct, how can we trust the meat of the story?” Another simple yet important fact is that according to the GJ reoprt, there are three firefighters per station. Well, the last time I saw the fire engine on a call, there were four firefighters… once again,”How can we trust the GJ?”
    How did the GJ performed their “investigation”? Was it truly unbaised? Did they take the time to question everyone involved in these factless accusations or did they interview few disgruntled employees? As much as we enjoy reading sensationalized stories such as the GJ reoprt, it is still a biased reoprt. Why? You ask? If you read the report without any facts or background history, you would think davis firefighters are a bunch lazy, greedy, drunken thugs who have zero leadership to follow and don’t care about the profession and the citizens they serve. If that were true, then how is it possible according to the department survey, the fire department receives over 98% very satisfied rating from the citizens they serve.
    Wake up people, this is a one sided report. This report reminds me a saying I heard long ago,” Throw enough sh– on the wall, enough of it will stick and some ignorant fools will believe it.” By the looks of this blog, enough sh– has stuck…sigh.

  110. T.T.

    Didn’t a bunch of bloggers complained about how most of the davis firefighters don’t live in davis, therefore, they shouldn’t be involved in local politics during the last campagin season? (BTW, I believe the Consititution gives them the right to participate in politics). According to the GJ report, 80% of davis firefighters live in Davis, well, one begs the question, “if the GJ can’t even get the above question correct, how can we trust the meat of the story?” Another simple yet important fact is that according to the GJ reoprt, there are three firefighters per station. Well, the last time I saw the fire engine on a call, there were four firefighters… once again,”How can we trust the GJ?”
    How did the GJ performed their “investigation”? Was it truly unbaised? Did they take the time to question everyone involved in these factless accusations or did they interview few disgruntled employees? As much as we enjoy reading sensationalized stories such as the GJ reoprt, it is still a biased reoprt. Why? You ask? If you read the report without any facts or background history, you would think davis firefighters are a bunch lazy, greedy, drunken thugs who have zero leadership to follow and don’t care about the profession and the citizens they serve. If that were true, then how is it possible according to the department survey, the fire department receives over 98% very satisfied rating from the citizens they serve.
    Wake up people, this is a one sided report. This report reminds me a saying I heard long ago,” Throw enough sh– on the wall, enough of it will stick and some ignorant fools will believe it.” By the looks of this blog, enough sh– has stuck…sigh.

  111. T.T.

    Didn’t a bunch of bloggers complained about how most of the davis firefighters don’t live in davis, therefore, they shouldn’t be involved in local politics during the last campagin season? (BTW, I believe the Consititution gives them the right to participate in politics). According to the GJ report, 80% of davis firefighters live in Davis, well, one begs the question, “if the GJ can’t even get the above question correct, how can we trust the meat of the story?” Another simple yet important fact is that according to the GJ reoprt, there are three firefighters per station. Well, the last time I saw the fire engine on a call, there were four firefighters… once again,”How can we trust the GJ?”
    How did the GJ performed their “investigation”? Was it truly unbaised? Did they take the time to question everyone involved in these factless accusations or did they interview few disgruntled employees? As much as we enjoy reading sensationalized stories such as the GJ reoprt, it is still a biased reoprt. Why? You ask? If you read the report without any facts or background history, you would think davis firefighters are a bunch lazy, greedy, drunken thugs who have zero leadership to follow and don’t care about the profession and the citizens they serve. If that were true, then how is it possible according to the department survey, the fire department receives over 98% very satisfied rating from the citizens they serve.
    Wake up people, this is a one sided report. This report reminds me a saying I heard long ago,” Throw enough sh– on the wall, enough of it will stick and some ignorant fools will believe it.” By the looks of this blog, enough sh– has stuck…sigh.

  112. T.T.

    Didn’t a bunch of bloggers complained about how most of the davis firefighters don’t live in davis, therefore, they shouldn’t be involved in local politics during the last campagin season? (BTW, I believe the Consititution gives them the right to participate in politics). According to the GJ report, 80% of davis firefighters live in Davis, well, one begs the question, “if the GJ can’t even get the above question correct, how can we trust the meat of the story?” Another simple yet important fact is that according to the GJ reoprt, there are three firefighters per station. Well, the last time I saw the fire engine on a call, there were four firefighters… once again,”How can we trust the GJ?”
    How did the GJ performed their “investigation”? Was it truly unbaised? Did they take the time to question everyone involved in these factless accusations or did they interview few disgruntled employees? As much as we enjoy reading sensationalized stories such as the GJ reoprt, it is still a biased reoprt. Why? You ask? If you read the report without any facts or background history, you would think davis firefighters are a bunch lazy, greedy, drunken thugs who have zero leadership to follow and don’t care about the profession and the citizens they serve. If that were true, then how is it possible according to the department survey, the fire department receives over 98% very satisfied rating from the citizens they serve.
    Wake up people, this is a one sided report. This report reminds me a saying I heard long ago,” Throw enough sh– on the wall, enough of it will stick and some ignorant fools will believe it.” By the looks of this blog, enough sh– has stuck…sigh.

  113. send them to AA

    It is improper for the management to allow drunk employees to “sleep it off” at the firehouse.

    A referral to substance abuse counseling to address the employee’s abuse of alcohol might be a better response for management.

  114. send them to AA

    It is improper for the management to allow drunk employees to “sleep it off” at the firehouse.

    A referral to substance abuse counseling to address the employee’s abuse of alcohol might be a better response for management.

  115. send them to AA

    It is improper for the management to allow drunk employees to “sleep it off” at the firehouse.

    A referral to substance abuse counseling to address the employee’s abuse of alcohol might be a better response for management.

  116. send them to AA

    It is improper for the management to allow drunk employees to “sleep it off” at the firehouse.

    A referral to substance abuse counseling to address the employee’s abuse of alcohol might be a better response for management.

  117. campaign watcher

    t.t.

    I went to the financial disclosures for the 2004 campaign contributions which showed who contributed to the campaigns, their occupation and where they live. 80% is not a correct number per these reports. I will do it again and report what I find. I will also look at the last election to see where the money is coming from.

  118. campaign watcher

    t.t.

    I went to the financial disclosures for the 2004 campaign contributions which showed who contributed to the campaigns, their occupation and where they live. 80% is not a correct number per these reports. I will do it again and report what I find. I will also look at the last election to see where the money is coming from.

  119. campaign watcher

    t.t.

    I went to the financial disclosures for the 2004 campaign contributions which showed who contributed to the campaigns, their occupation and where they live. 80% is not a correct number per these reports. I will do it again and report what I find. I will also look at the last election to see where the money is coming from.

  120. campaign watcher

    t.t.

    I went to the financial disclosures for the 2004 campaign contributions which showed who contributed to the campaigns, their occupation and where they live. 80% is not a correct number per these reports. I will do it again and report what I find. I will also look at the last election to see where the money is coming from.

  121. Anonymous

    t.t. –
    To clarify, there are three fire fighters and one captain on call at any one time. You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.

  122. Anonymous

    t.t. –
    To clarify, there are three fire fighters and one captain on call at any one time. You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.

  123. Anonymous

    t.t. –
    To clarify, there are three fire fighters and one captain on call at any one time. You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.

  124. Anonymous

    t.t. –
    To clarify, there are three fire fighters and one captain on call at any one time. You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.

  125. Vincente

    CW and TT: I believe the number is actually reversed, and it should be 80% outside of Davis, per the info that Rich Rifkin gleaned.

    As far as the rest of TT’s post: what reason did the Grand Jury have to skew their investigation? We’ll have to see what the response is from the city.

  126. Vincente

    CW and TT: I believe the number is actually reversed, and it should be 80% outside of Davis, per the info that Rich Rifkin gleaned.

    As far as the rest of TT’s post: what reason did the Grand Jury have to skew their investigation? We’ll have to see what the response is from the city.

  127. Vincente

    CW and TT: I believe the number is actually reversed, and it should be 80% outside of Davis, per the info that Rich Rifkin gleaned.

    As far as the rest of TT’s post: what reason did the Grand Jury have to skew their investigation? We’ll have to see what the response is from the city.

  128. Vincente

    CW and TT: I believe the number is actually reversed, and it should be 80% outside of Davis, per the info that Rich Rifkin gleaned.

    As far as the rest of TT’s post: what reason did the Grand Jury have to skew their investigation? We’ll have to see what the response is from the city.

  129. Doug Paul Davis

    “You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.”

    At least from what I saw when I did a ride along last summer, there is not much difference between the captain and the other three once they are out on the lines.

  130. Doug Paul Davis

    “You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.”

    At least from what I saw when I did a ride along last summer, there is not much difference between the captain and the other three once they are out on the lines.

  131. Doug Paul Davis

    “You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.”

    At least from what I saw when I did a ride along last summer, there is not much difference between the captain and the other three once they are out on the lines.

  132. Doug Paul Davis

    “You may see 4 bodies responding, but only 3 of them are fire fighters. One is a captain.”

    At least from what I saw when I did a ride along last summer, there is not much difference between the captain and the other three once they are out on the lines.

  133. another point of view

    Subversive Agent says…. “Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in politics?”

    But in fact, approximately 80% of Davis firefighters including Chief Rose Conroy and union president Captain Bobby Weist live elsewhere and always have.

    The firefighters care about themselves and there is nothing inherently wrong with that until their efforts cripples the City’s ability to provide resources to other equally deserving departments, keep the City’s budget balanced and not tax the average citizen into poverty. When firefighters on the average are making in excess of 150K including benefits there is a problem. When some firefighters are earning with overtime pay 200K this is called greed.

    The firefighters union cares about its self interest first and the community second. Okay, got it. That is why they play the political game and they do play it well. During the recent election union members collectively contributed over $4,000.00 to each of their favored candidates (Saylor, Souza, and Vergis) for a combined donation of 13K. The union also printed and mailed a slate card as well as printed up a doorhanger which they walked endorsing those candidates. Estimated cost for the mailer and the doorhanger was at least 8 to 10K. For approximately 25K in political contributions and independent expenditures the firefighter’s union is investing in candidates and councilmembers who will most likely once again approve these grossly inflated compensation packages with retirements that would choke to death most other government or private sector operations.

    For a small investment every two years during elections the firefighters reap substantial rewards.

  134. another point of view

    Subversive Agent says…. “Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in politics?”

    But in fact, approximately 80% of Davis firefighters including Chief Rose Conroy and union president Captain Bobby Weist live elsewhere and always have.

    The firefighters care about themselves and there is nothing inherently wrong with that until their efforts cripples the City’s ability to provide resources to other equally deserving departments, keep the City’s budget balanced and not tax the average citizen into poverty. When firefighters on the average are making in excess of 150K including benefits there is a problem. When some firefighters are earning with overtime pay 200K this is called greed.

    The firefighters union cares about its self interest first and the community second. Okay, got it. That is why they play the political game and they do play it well. During the recent election union members collectively contributed over $4,000.00 to each of their favored candidates (Saylor, Souza, and Vergis) for a combined donation of 13K. The union also printed and mailed a slate card as well as printed up a doorhanger which they walked endorsing those candidates. Estimated cost for the mailer and the doorhanger was at least 8 to 10K. For approximately 25K in political contributions and independent expenditures the firefighter’s union is investing in candidates and councilmembers who will most likely once again approve these grossly inflated compensation packages with retirements that would choke to death most other government or private sector operations.

    For a small investment every two years during elections the firefighters reap substantial rewards.

  135. another point of view

    Subversive Agent says…. “Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in politics?”

    But in fact, approximately 80% of Davis firefighters including Chief Rose Conroy and union president Captain Bobby Weist live elsewhere and always have.

    The firefighters care about themselves and there is nothing inherently wrong with that until their efforts cripples the City’s ability to provide resources to other equally deserving departments, keep the City’s budget balanced and not tax the average citizen into poverty. When firefighters on the average are making in excess of 150K including benefits there is a problem. When some firefighters are earning with overtime pay 200K this is called greed.

    The firefighters union cares about its self interest first and the community second. Okay, got it. That is why they play the political game and they do play it well. During the recent election union members collectively contributed over $4,000.00 to each of their favored candidates (Saylor, Souza, and Vergis) for a combined donation of 13K. The union also printed and mailed a slate card as well as printed up a doorhanger which they walked endorsing those candidates. Estimated cost for the mailer and the doorhanger was at least 8 to 10K. For approximately 25K in political contributions and independent expenditures the firefighter’s union is investing in candidates and councilmembers who will most likely once again approve these grossly inflated compensation packages with retirements that would choke to death most other government or private sector operations.

    For a small investment every two years during elections the firefighters reap substantial rewards.

  136. another point of view

    Subversive Agent says…. “Isn’t it great the firefighters care enough about the city they live in to be involved in politics?”

    But in fact, approximately 80% of Davis firefighters including Chief Rose Conroy and union president Captain Bobby Weist live elsewhere and always have.

    The firefighters care about themselves and there is nothing inherently wrong with that until their efforts cripples the City’s ability to provide resources to other equally deserving departments, keep the City’s budget balanced and not tax the average citizen into poverty. When firefighters on the average are making in excess of 150K including benefits there is a problem. When some firefighters are earning with overtime pay 200K this is called greed.

    The firefighters union cares about its self interest first and the community second. Okay, got it. That is why they play the political game and they do play it well. During the recent election union members collectively contributed over $4,000.00 to each of their favored candidates (Saylor, Souza, and Vergis) for a combined donation of 13K. The union also printed and mailed a slate card as well as printed up a doorhanger which they walked endorsing those candidates. Estimated cost for the mailer and the doorhanger was at least 8 to 10K. For approximately 25K in political contributions and independent expenditures the firefighter’s union is investing in candidates and councilmembers who will most likely once again approve these grossly inflated compensation packages with retirements that would choke to death most other government or private sector operations.

    For a small investment every two years during elections the firefighters reap substantial rewards.

  137. Subversive Agent

    CW, tt, and DPD: The point is the report is WRONG! How can that be since they have had sooo much time to investigate and publish their findings…the report in The Davis Enterprise (and there was a complete insert in yesterday’s paper) said 2007-2008. I can’t wait to hear the response from The City. And yes, there are 4 on an engine crew. Wouldn’t it be great if your boss jumped in and lent a hand rather than stand around when there was nothing for them to do?

  138. Subversive Agent

    CW, tt, and DPD: The point is the report is WRONG! How can that be since they have had sooo much time to investigate and publish their findings…the report in The Davis Enterprise (and there was a complete insert in yesterday’s paper) said 2007-2008. I can’t wait to hear the response from The City. And yes, there are 4 on an engine crew. Wouldn’t it be great if your boss jumped in and lent a hand rather than stand around when there was nothing for them to do?

  139. Subversive Agent

    CW, tt, and DPD: The point is the report is WRONG! How can that be since they have had sooo much time to investigate and publish their findings…the report in The Davis Enterprise (and there was a complete insert in yesterday’s paper) said 2007-2008. I can’t wait to hear the response from The City. And yes, there are 4 on an engine crew. Wouldn’t it be great if your boss jumped in and lent a hand rather than stand around when there was nothing for them to do?

  140. Subversive Agent

    CW, tt, and DPD: The point is the report is WRONG! How can that be since they have had sooo much time to investigate and publish their findings…the report in The Davis Enterprise (and there was a complete insert in yesterday’s paper) said 2007-2008. I can’t wait to hear the response from The City. And yes, there are 4 on an engine crew. Wouldn’t it be great if your boss jumped in and lent a hand rather than stand around when there was nothing for them to do?

  141. Anonymous

    The whitewashing has begun. We need an independent investigation. How the hell does Emlen *know* that things are inaccurate? Bobby told him? Rose told him?

    Subversive Agent = Bobby Weist???

  142. Anonymous

    The whitewashing has begun. We need an independent investigation. How the hell does Emlen *know* that things are inaccurate? Bobby told him? Rose told him?

    Subversive Agent = Bobby Weist???

  143. Anonymous

    The whitewashing has begun. We need an independent investigation. How the hell does Emlen *know* that things are inaccurate? Bobby told him? Rose told him?

    Subversive Agent = Bobby Weist???

  144. Anonymous

    The whitewashing has begun. We need an independent investigation. How the hell does Emlen *know* that things are inaccurate? Bobby told him? Rose told him?

    Subversive Agent = Bobby Weist???

  145. Richard

    I’d wait to see the city’s response before gathering up a lynch mob to start hanging the rope.

    The grand jury report merely initiates the process. The response will clarify, perhaps credibly, perhaps not.

    –Richard Estes

  146. Richard

    I’d wait to see the city’s response before gathering up a lynch mob to start hanging the rope.

    The grand jury report merely initiates the process. The response will clarify, perhaps credibly, perhaps not.

    –Richard Estes

  147. Richard

    I’d wait to see the city’s response before gathering up a lynch mob to start hanging the rope.

    The grand jury report merely initiates the process. The response will clarify, perhaps credibly, perhaps not.

    –Richard Estes

  148. Richard

    I’d wait to see the city’s response before gathering up a lynch mob to start hanging the rope.

    The grand jury report merely initiates the process. The response will clarify, perhaps credibly, perhaps not.

    –Richard Estes

  149. former emptyprise subscriber

    Bill Emlen has no credibility whatsoever. He is a city follower not a city manager. The guy only has the title of city manager, but he does not “manage” per se. He does what he is told by Asmundson, Saylor and Souza. Since Bobby and co. supported Souza and Saylor he is not going to rock the boat that butters his bread.

    Don’t be so foolish! We know that they are working their as- – – off to whitewash the report.

    The bigger question is where is the outrage and who is going to demand an independent investigation?

    DPD, can you get a public records request in to see the reasons that the city has had to pay out $600,000 +++ for harassment at the DFD?

    A big thank you is in order to DPD for the Vanguard. We wouldn’t even know what is going on in this city if it wasn’t for all the reporting you do. Thank you!

  150. former emptyprise subscriber

    Bill Emlen has no credibility whatsoever. He is a city follower not a city manager. The guy only has the title of city manager, but he does not “manage” per se. He does what he is told by Asmundson, Saylor and Souza. Since Bobby and co. supported Souza and Saylor he is not going to rock the boat that butters his bread.

    Don’t be so foolish! We know that they are working their as- – – off to whitewash the report.

    The bigger question is where is the outrage and who is going to demand an independent investigation?

    DPD, can you get a public records request in to see the reasons that the city has had to pay out $600,000 +++ for harassment at the DFD?

    A big thank you is in order to DPD for the Vanguard. We wouldn’t even know what is going on in this city if it wasn’t for all the reporting you do. Thank you!

  151. former emptyprise subscriber

    Bill Emlen has no credibility whatsoever. He is a city follower not a city manager. The guy only has the title of city manager, but he does not “manage” per se. He does what he is told by Asmundson, Saylor and Souza. Since Bobby and co. supported Souza and Saylor he is not going to rock the boat that butters his bread.

    Don’t be so foolish! We know that they are working their as- – – off to whitewash the report.

    The bigger question is where is the outrage and who is going to demand an independent investigation?

    DPD, can you get a public records request in to see the reasons that the city has had to pay out $600,000 +++ for harassment at the DFD?

    A big thank you is in order to DPD for the Vanguard. We wouldn’t even know what is going on in this city if it wasn’t for all the reporting you do. Thank you!

  152. former emptyprise subscriber

    Bill Emlen has no credibility whatsoever. He is a city follower not a city manager. The guy only has the title of city manager, but he does not “manage” per se. He does what he is told by Asmundson, Saylor and Souza. Since Bobby and co. supported Souza and Saylor he is not going to rock the boat that butters his bread.

    Don’t be so foolish! We know that they are working their as- – – off to whitewash the report.

    The bigger question is where is the outrage and who is going to demand an independent investigation?

    DPD, can you get a public records request in to see the reasons that the city has had to pay out $600,000 +++ for harassment at the DFD?

    A big thank you is in order to DPD for the Vanguard. We wouldn’t even know what is going on in this city if it wasn’t for all the reporting you do. Thank you!

  153. outraged taxpayer

    They raked David Serena and the Yolo Housing Authority through the mud. They being the Enterprise.

    Isn’t it interesting how the Enterprise protects some such as Chief Rose and Bobby Weist given the recently released Grand Jury Report and they smear others?

    How is it that Serena was not given the excuse of “we can’t talk about his case due to confidential personnel matters” and Bobby and Rose are????

    The Enterprise is a typical small town newspaper that protects the status quo and goes after whomever they choose.

    Maybe some are dumb enough to believe Emlen’s excuse, but he shouldn’t assume that everyone in Davis is dumb enough to support his ill decisions and excuses as a city manager.

    He should have been smart enough to say that the allegations were serious and will be looked into thoroughly. He was not smart enough to say or do this.

    It doesn’t make me feel good as a taxpayer to know that we don’t have a person running our city with smart management skills.

    Can someone do a report on how much the city has had to pay out for harassment charges in other departments? If the Fire Dept. cost the city $600,000 I wonder what other departments have had to shell out?

    Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?

  154. outraged taxpayer

    They raked David Serena and the Yolo Housing Authority through the mud. They being the Enterprise.

    Isn’t it interesting how the Enterprise protects some such as Chief Rose and Bobby Weist given the recently released Grand Jury Report and they smear others?

    How is it that Serena was not given the excuse of “we can’t talk about his case due to confidential personnel matters” and Bobby and Rose are????

    The Enterprise is a typical small town newspaper that protects the status quo and goes after whomever they choose.

    Maybe some are dumb enough to believe Emlen’s excuse, but he shouldn’t assume that everyone in Davis is dumb enough to support his ill decisions and excuses as a city manager.

    He should have been smart enough to say that the allegations were serious and will be looked into thoroughly. He was not smart enough to say or do this.

    It doesn’t make me feel good as a taxpayer to know that we don’t have a person running our city with smart management skills.

    Can someone do a report on how much the city has had to pay out for harassment charges in other departments? If the Fire Dept. cost the city $600,000 I wonder what other departments have had to shell out?

    Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?

  155. outraged taxpayer

    They raked David Serena and the Yolo Housing Authority through the mud. They being the Enterprise.

    Isn’t it interesting how the Enterprise protects some such as Chief Rose and Bobby Weist given the recently released Grand Jury Report and they smear others?

    How is it that Serena was not given the excuse of “we can’t talk about his case due to confidential personnel matters” and Bobby and Rose are????

    The Enterprise is a typical small town newspaper that protects the status quo and goes after whomever they choose.

    Maybe some are dumb enough to believe Emlen’s excuse, but he shouldn’t assume that everyone in Davis is dumb enough to support his ill decisions and excuses as a city manager.

    He should have been smart enough to say that the allegations were serious and will be looked into thoroughly. He was not smart enough to say or do this.

    It doesn’t make me feel good as a taxpayer to know that we don’t have a person running our city with smart management skills.

    Can someone do a report on how much the city has had to pay out for harassment charges in other departments? If the Fire Dept. cost the city $600,000 I wonder what other departments have had to shell out?

    Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?

  156. outraged taxpayer

    They raked David Serena and the Yolo Housing Authority through the mud. They being the Enterprise.

    Isn’t it interesting how the Enterprise protects some such as Chief Rose and Bobby Weist given the recently released Grand Jury Report and they smear others?

    How is it that Serena was not given the excuse of “we can’t talk about his case due to confidential personnel matters” and Bobby and Rose are????

    The Enterprise is a typical small town newspaper that protects the status quo and goes after whomever they choose.

    Maybe some are dumb enough to believe Emlen’s excuse, but he shouldn’t assume that everyone in Davis is dumb enough to support his ill decisions and excuses as a city manager.

    He should have been smart enough to say that the allegations were serious and will be looked into thoroughly. He was not smart enough to say or do this.

    It doesn’t make me feel good as a taxpayer to know that we don’t have a person running our city with smart management skills.

    Can someone do a report on how much the city has had to pay out for harassment charges in other departments? If the Fire Dept. cost the city $600,000 I wonder what other departments have had to shell out?

    Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?

  157. Anonymous

    Richard is right on. The facts are in dispute. The GJ report is but one part of the story. Just ask David Serena. The city has insurance that covers harassment law suits that more than likely pays most of the settlement. We should not jump to conclusions until all of facts have been established unless you want to tar and feather those who you do not like or as some of those who have posted appear to just hate.

  158. Anonymous

    Richard is right on. The facts are in dispute. The GJ report is but one part of the story. Just ask David Serena. The city has insurance that covers harassment law suits that more than likely pays most of the settlement. We should not jump to conclusions until all of facts have been established unless you want to tar and feather those who you do not like or as some of those who have posted appear to just hate.

  159. Anonymous

    Richard is right on. The facts are in dispute. The GJ report is but one part of the story. Just ask David Serena. The city has insurance that covers harassment law suits that more than likely pays most of the settlement. We should not jump to conclusions until all of facts have been established unless you want to tar and feather those who you do not like or as some of those who have posted appear to just hate.

  160. Anonymous

    Richard is right on. The facts are in dispute. The GJ report is but one part of the story. Just ask David Serena. The city has insurance that covers harassment law suits that more than likely pays most of the settlement. We should not jump to conclusions until all of facts have been established unless you want to tar and feather those who you do not like or as some of those who have posted appear to just hate.

  161. Anonymous

    “Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?”

    It might be worse. You could live in Vallejo.

  162. Anonymous

    “Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?”

    It might be worse. You could live in Vallejo.

  163. Anonymous

    “Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?”

    It might be worse. You could live in Vallejo.

  164. Anonymous

    “Davis is a poorly managed city!!! How can a city with such an educated citizenry have such incompetence?”

    It might be worse. You could live in Vallejo.

  165. davis headed to bankruptcy

    It is very irresponsible to allow the firefighters to “sleep it off” at the fire station. If they have to “sleep it off” week after week then maybe they need to look into enrolling into the Employee Assistance Program to get help with a drinking problem. A responsible Chief would discipline those who do this. Instead, she turns the other way and provides favors to the union president? Not very responsible.

    I will support a public safety tax for the police department, but not the Davis Fire Department. They have wasted enough of our tax dollars.

    If we continue in this direction the Davis Fire Department will lead us down the same path as the Vallejo Fire Department led their city…down the road to bankruptcy.

  166. davis headed to bankruptcy

    It is very irresponsible to allow the firefighters to “sleep it off” at the fire station. If they have to “sleep it off” week after week then maybe they need to look into enrolling into the Employee Assistance Program to get help with a drinking problem. A responsible Chief would discipline those who do this. Instead, she turns the other way and provides favors to the union president? Not very responsible.

    I will support a public safety tax for the police department, but not the Davis Fire Department. They have wasted enough of our tax dollars.

    If we continue in this direction the Davis Fire Department will lead us down the same path as the Vallejo Fire Department led their city…down the road to bankruptcy.

  167. davis headed to bankruptcy

    It is very irresponsible to allow the firefighters to “sleep it off” at the fire station. If they have to “sleep it off” week after week then maybe they need to look into enrolling into the Employee Assistance Program to get help with a drinking problem. A responsible Chief would discipline those who do this. Instead, she turns the other way and provides favors to the union president? Not very responsible.

    I will support a public safety tax for the police department, but not the Davis Fire Department. They have wasted enough of our tax dollars.

    If we continue in this direction the Davis Fire Department will lead us down the same path as the Vallejo Fire Department led their city…down the road to bankruptcy.

  168. davis headed to bankruptcy

    It is very irresponsible to allow the firefighters to “sleep it off” at the fire station. If they have to “sleep it off” week after week then maybe they need to look into enrolling into the Employee Assistance Program to get help with a drinking problem. A responsible Chief would discipline those who do this. Instead, she turns the other way and provides favors to the union president? Not very responsible.

    I will support a public safety tax for the police department, but not the Davis Fire Department. They have wasted enough of our tax dollars.

    If we continue in this direction the Davis Fire Department will lead us down the same path as the Vallejo Fire Department led their city…down the road to bankruptcy.

  169. watching the train wreck

    Subversive Agent,

    Yes, it is like watching a train wreck. Our city is the train and the fire department is causing the wreck.
    It’s time to change captains and do something about the passengers who are causing problems on the train.

    Is the fire department over it’s budget? Probably, but it’s their own doing. If they were not so irresponsible (paying out over $600,000 for harassment charges) then they would not be in the hole they are in.

    They get paid enough for the job they do. I agree with the other person who posted. I will support a public safety tax in the future for the police department, but not the fire department. Irresponsibility should not be rewarded.

  170. watching the train wreck

    Subversive Agent,

    Yes, it is like watching a train wreck. Our city is the train and the fire department is causing the wreck.
    It’s time to change captains and do something about the passengers who are causing problems on the train.

    Is the fire department over it’s budget? Probably, but it’s their own doing. If they were not so irresponsible (paying out over $600,000 for harassment charges) then they would not be in the hole they are in.

    They get paid enough for the job they do. I agree with the other person who posted. I will support a public safety tax in the future for the police department, but not the fire department. Irresponsibility should not be rewarded.

  171. watching the train wreck

    Subversive Agent,

    Yes, it is like watching a train wreck. Our city is the train and the fire department is causing the wreck.
    It’s time to change captains and do something about the passengers who are causing problems on the train.

    Is the fire department over it’s budget? Probably, but it’s their own doing. If they were not so irresponsible (paying out over $600,000 for harassment charges) then they would not be in the hole they are in.

    They get paid enough for the job they do. I agree with the other person who posted. I will support a public safety tax in the future for the police department, but not the fire department. Irresponsibility should not be rewarded.

  172. watching the train wreck

    Subversive Agent,

    Yes, it is like watching a train wreck. Our city is the train and the fire department is causing the wreck.
    It’s time to change captains and do something about the passengers who are causing problems on the train.

    Is the fire department over it’s budget? Probably, but it’s their own doing. If they were not so irresponsible (paying out over $600,000 for harassment charges) then they would not be in the hole they are in.

    They get paid enough for the job they do. I agree with the other person who posted. I will support a public safety tax in the future for the police department, but not the fire department. Irresponsibility should not be rewarded.

  173. Anonymous

    So.. the Enterprise did have a front-page story today. I did not read the contents of the article but the headline caught my eye. For those unfamiliar with the editorial workings of the Enterprise, Debbie Davis writes the headlines to the front-page articles. What caught my eye was the headline that trumpeted cronyism but NOTHING about the charge of inappropriate political influence on our Council that would point the finger at Saylor and Souza.

  174. Anonymous

    So.. the Enterprise did have a front-page story today. I did not read the contents of the article but the headline caught my eye. For those unfamiliar with the editorial workings of the Enterprise, Debbie Davis writes the headlines to the front-page articles. What caught my eye was the headline that trumpeted cronyism but NOTHING about the charge of inappropriate political influence on our Council that would point the finger at Saylor and Souza.

  175. Anonymous

    So.. the Enterprise did have a front-page story today. I did not read the contents of the article but the headline caught my eye. For those unfamiliar with the editorial workings of the Enterprise, Debbie Davis writes the headlines to the front-page articles. What caught my eye was the headline that trumpeted cronyism but NOTHING about the charge of inappropriate political influence on our Council that would point the finger at Saylor and Souza.

  176. Anonymous

    So.. the Enterprise did have a front-page story today. I did not read the contents of the article but the headline caught my eye. For those unfamiliar with the editorial workings of the Enterprise, Debbie Davis writes the headlines to the front-page articles. What caught my eye was the headline that trumpeted cronyism but NOTHING about the charge of inappropriate political influence on our Council that would point the finger at Saylor and Souza.

  177. Subversive Agent

    Anonymous, if you had read the article, you might have learned something. Only so much fits in a headline. There was plenty of meat in the article, although it sounded like ptomaine. I wasn’t on the grand jury, I wasn’t called before the grand jury, and I haven’t heard what the city or fire department has to say about the findings from the grand jury. Might be a good time to wait quietly and reserve judgment?

  178. Subversive Agent

    Anonymous, if you had read the article, you might have learned something. Only so much fits in a headline. There was plenty of meat in the article, although it sounded like ptomaine. I wasn’t on the grand jury, I wasn’t called before the grand jury, and I haven’t heard what the city or fire department has to say about the findings from the grand jury. Might be a good time to wait quietly and reserve judgment?

  179. Subversive Agent

    Anonymous, if you had read the article, you might have learned something. Only so much fits in a headline. There was plenty of meat in the article, although it sounded like ptomaine. I wasn’t on the grand jury, I wasn’t called before the grand jury, and I haven’t heard what the city or fire department has to say about the findings from the grand jury. Might be a good time to wait quietly and reserve judgment?

  180. Subversive Agent

    Anonymous, if you had read the article, you might have learned something. Only so much fits in a headline. There was plenty of meat in the article, although it sounded like ptomaine. I wasn’t on the grand jury, I wasn’t called before the grand jury, and I haven’t heard what the city or fire department has to say about the findings from the grand jury. Might be a good time to wait quietly and reserve judgment?

  181. Insider

    I read the article, I didn’t learn anything other than what I expected to see–denial. I agree with you–reserve judgment. I do agree with DPD that we need someone to look into the charges who is not named Bill Emlen.

  182. Insider

    I read the article, I didn’t learn anything other than what I expected to see–denial. I agree with you–reserve judgment. I do agree with DPD that we need someone to look into the charges who is not named Bill Emlen.

  183. Insider

    I read the article, I didn’t learn anything other than what I expected to see–denial. I agree with you–reserve judgment. I do agree with DPD that we need someone to look into the charges who is not named Bill Emlen.

  184. Insider

    I read the article, I didn’t learn anything other than what I expected to see–denial. I agree with you–reserve judgment. I do agree with DPD that we need someone to look into the charges who is not named Bill Emlen.

  185. Think Again

    Unions are problematic, and need reform. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, no matter which side you are on, union or management. If you think this sort of thing doesn’t go on in other unions, think again…

    Furthermore, the back stops with the Fire Chief, and the City Council. A failure of present and past members of the City Council to raise a stink have resulted in this current mess. Thanks for referring to the Tahir Ahad scandal, DPD – another one in which School Board members did not yell loud enough to get the public’s attention.

    Nothing will change unless the electorate demands it – with petitions, this blog, whatever it takes to make sure there is substantive change. Sitting back and ignoring this is not a fiscal option anymore if we don’t want to end up bankrupt like Vallejo…

  186. Think Again

    Unions are problematic, and need reform. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, no matter which side you are on, union or management. If you think this sort of thing doesn’t go on in other unions, think again…

    Furthermore, the back stops with the Fire Chief, and the City Council. A failure of present and past members of the City Council to raise a stink have resulted in this current mess. Thanks for referring to the Tahir Ahad scandal, DPD – another one in which School Board members did not yell loud enough to get the public’s attention.

    Nothing will change unless the electorate demands it – with petitions, this blog, whatever it takes to make sure there is substantive change. Sitting back and ignoring this is not a fiscal option anymore if we don’t want to end up bankrupt like Vallejo…

  187. Think Again

    Unions are problematic, and need reform. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, no matter which side you are on, union or management. If you think this sort of thing doesn’t go on in other unions, think again…

    Furthermore, the back stops with the Fire Chief, and the City Council. A failure of present and past members of the City Council to raise a stink have resulted in this current mess. Thanks for referring to the Tahir Ahad scandal, DPD – another one in which School Board members did not yell loud enough to get the public’s attention.

    Nothing will change unless the electorate demands it – with petitions, this blog, whatever it takes to make sure there is substantive change. Sitting back and ignoring this is not a fiscal option anymore if we don’t want to end up bankrupt like Vallejo…

  188. Think Again

    Unions are problematic, and need reform. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, no matter which side you are on, union or management. If you think this sort of thing doesn’t go on in other unions, think again…

    Furthermore, the back stops with the Fire Chief, and the City Council. A failure of present and past members of the City Council to raise a stink have resulted in this current mess. Thanks for referring to the Tahir Ahad scandal, DPD – another one in which School Board members did not yell loud enough to get the public’s attention.

    Nothing will change unless the electorate demands it – with petitions, this blog, whatever it takes to make sure there is substantive change. Sitting back and ignoring this is not a fiscal option anymore if we don’t want to end up bankrupt like Vallejo…

  189. Doug Paul Davis

    Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases. There appears no effective check on the power. Just as is the case in the absence of unions where there is no effective check on the power of management. Collective bargaining is by its nature a cooperative process. The problem is that there is no one representing the taxpayers/ voters interests on the bargaining table. No one appearing to want to step up and say no. That is not a typical statement. I’m not saying other unions do not have their problems, what I am saying is from the outside looking in, this appears to have more than its share and to the detriment of the voters, taxpayers, and some of their own employees.

  190. Doug Paul Davis

    Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases. There appears no effective check on the power. Just as is the case in the absence of unions where there is no effective check on the power of management. Collective bargaining is by its nature a cooperative process. The problem is that there is no one representing the taxpayers/ voters interests on the bargaining table. No one appearing to want to step up and say no. That is not a typical statement. I’m not saying other unions do not have their problems, what I am saying is from the outside looking in, this appears to have more than its share and to the detriment of the voters, taxpayers, and some of their own employees.

  191. Doug Paul Davis

    Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases. There appears no effective check on the power. Just as is the case in the absence of unions where there is no effective check on the power of management. Collective bargaining is by its nature a cooperative process. The problem is that there is no one representing the taxpayers/ voters interests on the bargaining table. No one appearing to want to step up and say no. That is not a typical statement. I’m not saying other unions do not have their problems, what I am saying is from the outside looking in, this appears to have more than its share and to the detriment of the voters, taxpayers, and some of their own employees.

  192. Doug Paul Davis

    Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases. There appears no effective check on the power. Just as is the case in the absence of unions where there is no effective check on the power of management. Collective bargaining is by its nature a cooperative process. The problem is that there is no one representing the taxpayers/ voters interests on the bargaining table. No one appearing to want to step up and say no. That is not a typical statement. I’m not saying other unions do not have their problems, what I am saying is from the outside looking in, this appears to have more than its share and to the detriment of the voters, taxpayers, and some of their own employees.

  193. Anonymous

    Subversive agent said:
    “…Only so much fits in a headline’

    The Enterprise reporters write the article, under the tuteledge of Editor Debbie Davis and the inevitable self-censorship that exists in newsrooms by reporters who need their paychecks. The headline is crafted by Debbie Davis and is designed to set the tone and “meaning” of the article that the reader is directed to come away with We had a great example of this,some time back in Councilman Heystek’s first appearances at Council meeting,when Debbie’s headline described Councilman Heystek as near-sobbing and crushed when the body of Claire’s article described Lamar as quite the opposite. The headlines are a critical tool in shaping the reader’s “take” on the article that follows.

  194. Anonymous

    Subversive agent said:
    “…Only so much fits in a headline’

    The Enterprise reporters write the article, under the tuteledge of Editor Debbie Davis and the inevitable self-censorship that exists in newsrooms by reporters who need their paychecks. The headline is crafted by Debbie Davis and is designed to set the tone and “meaning” of the article that the reader is directed to come away with We had a great example of this,some time back in Councilman Heystek’s first appearances at Council meeting,when Debbie’s headline described Councilman Heystek as near-sobbing and crushed when the body of Claire’s article described Lamar as quite the opposite. The headlines are a critical tool in shaping the reader’s “take” on the article that follows.

  195. Anonymous

    Subversive agent said:
    “…Only so much fits in a headline’

    The Enterprise reporters write the article, under the tuteledge of Editor Debbie Davis and the inevitable self-censorship that exists in newsrooms by reporters who need their paychecks. The headline is crafted by Debbie Davis and is designed to set the tone and “meaning” of the article that the reader is directed to come away with We had a great example of this,some time back in Councilman Heystek’s first appearances at Council meeting,when Debbie’s headline described Councilman Heystek as near-sobbing and crushed when the body of Claire’s article described Lamar as quite the opposite. The headlines are a critical tool in shaping the reader’s “take” on the article that follows.

  196. Anonymous

    Subversive agent said:
    “…Only so much fits in a headline’

    The Enterprise reporters write the article, under the tuteledge of Editor Debbie Davis and the inevitable self-censorship that exists in newsrooms by reporters who need their paychecks. The headline is crafted by Debbie Davis and is designed to set the tone and “meaning” of the article that the reader is directed to come away with We had a great example of this,some time back in Councilman Heystek’s first appearances at Council meeting,when Debbie’s headline described Councilman Heystek as near-sobbing and crushed when the body of Claire’s article described Lamar as quite the opposite. The headlines are a critical tool in shaping the reader’s “take” on the article that follows.

  197. Subversive Agent

    Interesting when this hit the TV news tonight, the big story is not about political impropriety. Additionally, Channel 3 stated the GJ report did not say anything illegal occurred. Mostly, the story was about firefighters not wanting to drive after having a few drinks! MADD would be proud. I guess the new ad campaign of buzzed driving is drunk driving must have been heard by some.

  198. Subversive Agent

    Interesting when this hit the TV news tonight, the big story is not about political impropriety. Additionally, Channel 3 stated the GJ report did not say anything illegal occurred. Mostly, the story was about firefighters not wanting to drive after having a few drinks! MADD would be proud. I guess the new ad campaign of buzzed driving is drunk driving must have been heard by some.

  199. Subversive Agent

    Interesting when this hit the TV news tonight, the big story is not about political impropriety. Additionally, Channel 3 stated the GJ report did not say anything illegal occurred. Mostly, the story was about firefighters not wanting to drive after having a few drinks! MADD would be proud. I guess the new ad campaign of buzzed driving is drunk driving must have been heard by some.

  200. Subversive Agent

    Interesting when this hit the TV news tonight, the big story is not about political impropriety. Additionally, Channel 3 stated the GJ report did not say anything illegal occurred. Mostly, the story was about firefighters not wanting to drive after having a few drinks! MADD would be proud. I guess the new ad campaign of buzzed driving is drunk driving must have been heard by some.

  201. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    The sexy part of the grand jury report is of course the drinking and sleeping it off in the station. It is probably the least of the allegation. On the other hand, basing it on the reaction, it is probably the portion that the public can most easily relate to.

    I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.

    One thing that the Grand Jury report does say is that the use of the firehouse for those purposes is against city ordinance:

    “While it may be preferable for them to be sleeping in the firehouse rather than driving on the road, the city prohibits “being
    under the influence during work hours, at the work site, or in uniform.” (Section 3.4B of the City of Davis Administrative Policy and Section 7.4 J of the City of Davis Personnel Rules and Regulations).”

    Also if the hostile work environment is triggering lawsuits and settlements, illegality is a mere point of technicality that glosses over civil liability which a number of these complaints would amount to.

    I think your defense here is weak. Also, what I’m now hearing mostly off the record is that behind the scenes things are looking quite different than the public face they are putting on. Take that for what its worth.

  202. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    The sexy part of the grand jury report is of course the drinking and sleeping it off in the station. It is probably the least of the allegation. On the other hand, basing it on the reaction, it is probably the portion that the public can most easily relate to.

    I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.

    One thing that the Grand Jury report does say is that the use of the firehouse for those purposes is against city ordinance:

    “While it may be preferable for them to be sleeping in the firehouse rather than driving on the road, the city prohibits “being
    under the influence during work hours, at the work site, or in uniform.” (Section 3.4B of the City of Davis Administrative Policy and Section 7.4 J of the City of Davis Personnel Rules and Regulations).”

    Also if the hostile work environment is triggering lawsuits and settlements, illegality is a mere point of technicality that glosses over civil liability which a number of these complaints would amount to.

    I think your defense here is weak. Also, what I’m now hearing mostly off the record is that behind the scenes things are looking quite different than the public face they are putting on. Take that for what its worth.

  203. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    The sexy part of the grand jury report is of course the drinking and sleeping it off in the station. It is probably the least of the allegation. On the other hand, basing it on the reaction, it is probably the portion that the public can most easily relate to.

    I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.

    One thing that the Grand Jury report does say is that the use of the firehouse for those purposes is against city ordinance:

    “While it may be preferable for them to be sleeping in the firehouse rather than driving on the road, the city prohibits “being
    under the influence during work hours, at the work site, or in uniform.” (Section 3.4B of the City of Davis Administrative Policy and Section 7.4 J of the City of Davis Personnel Rules and Regulations).”

    Also if the hostile work environment is triggering lawsuits and settlements, illegality is a mere point of technicality that glosses over civil liability which a number of these complaints would amount to.

    I think your defense here is weak. Also, what I’m now hearing mostly off the record is that behind the scenes things are looking quite different than the public face they are putting on. Take that for what its worth.

  204. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    The sexy part of the grand jury report is of course the drinking and sleeping it off in the station. It is probably the least of the allegation. On the other hand, basing it on the reaction, it is probably the portion that the public can most easily relate to.

    I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.

    One thing that the Grand Jury report does say is that the use of the firehouse for those purposes is against city ordinance:

    “While it may be preferable for them to be sleeping in the firehouse rather than driving on the road, the city prohibits “being
    under the influence during work hours, at the work site, or in uniform.” (Section 3.4B of the City of Davis Administrative Policy and Section 7.4 J of the City of Davis Personnel Rules and Regulations).”

    Also if the hostile work environment is triggering lawsuits and settlements, illegality is a mere point of technicality that glosses over civil liability which a number of these complaints would amount to.

    I think your defense here is weak. Also, what I’m now hearing mostly off the record is that behind the scenes things are looking quite different than the public face they are putting on. Take that for what its worth.

  205. Subversive Agent

    DPD: “I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.”

    Huh? What? Did you actually write that? Then why was a grand jury convened, twice? Sounds like perosonal vendettas that could have just as well been taken care of internally. Talk about a waste of money! From the report, “One DFD firefighter was so
    fearful of retaliation that upon being summoned to testify
    before the Grand Jury, this individual parked blocks
    away and walked to the Grand Jury’s office so that no
    one would identify the car in the Grand Jury parking lot
    and report it to DFD or Union management.” There is no control over who receives a subpoena. Fearful? or do they just have a guilty conscience? Was the Chief of the department included in these writs or Bobby Weist? Well, Mr. Weist was quoted to not have been, and as for the Chief, no clue but I sure hope so.

    DPD, I don’t think my argument is weak. I think your righteousness is mighty. I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals. Judge or be judged. Look in the news: one drink is too many! How many times do we open the newspaper to see a police officer arrested for drunk driving or hit and run drunk driving? I would much rather they “slept it off at the station.” and I am sure the families of the dead would agree.

  206. Subversive Agent

    DPD: “I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.”

    Huh? What? Did you actually write that? Then why was a grand jury convened, twice? Sounds like perosonal vendettas that could have just as well been taken care of internally. Talk about a waste of money! From the report, “One DFD firefighter was so
    fearful of retaliation that upon being summoned to testify
    before the Grand Jury, this individual parked blocks
    away and walked to the Grand Jury’s office so that no
    one would identify the car in the Grand Jury parking lot
    and report it to DFD or Union management.” There is no control over who receives a subpoena. Fearful? or do they just have a guilty conscience? Was the Chief of the department included in these writs or Bobby Weist? Well, Mr. Weist was quoted to not have been, and as for the Chief, no clue but I sure hope so.

    DPD, I don’t think my argument is weak. I think your righteousness is mighty. I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals. Judge or be judged. Look in the news: one drink is too many! How many times do we open the newspaper to see a police officer arrested for drunk driving or hit and run drunk driving? I would much rather they “slept it off at the station.” and I am sure the families of the dead would agree.

  207. Subversive Agent

    DPD: “I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.”

    Huh? What? Did you actually write that? Then why was a grand jury convened, twice? Sounds like perosonal vendettas that could have just as well been taken care of internally. Talk about a waste of money! From the report, “One DFD firefighter was so
    fearful of retaliation that upon being summoned to testify
    before the Grand Jury, this individual parked blocks
    away and walked to the Grand Jury’s office so that no
    one would identify the car in the Grand Jury parking lot
    and report it to DFD or Union management.” There is no control over who receives a subpoena. Fearful? or do they just have a guilty conscience? Was the Chief of the department included in these writs or Bobby Weist? Well, Mr. Weist was quoted to not have been, and as for the Chief, no clue but I sure hope so.

    DPD, I don’t think my argument is weak. I think your righteousness is mighty. I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals. Judge or be judged. Look in the news: one drink is too many! How many times do we open the newspaper to see a police officer arrested for drunk driving or hit and run drunk driving? I would much rather they “slept it off at the station.” and I am sure the families of the dead would agree.

  208. Subversive Agent

    DPD: “I’m not sure how important it is whether or not things were illegal.”

    Huh? What? Did you actually write that? Then why was a grand jury convened, twice? Sounds like perosonal vendettas that could have just as well been taken care of internally. Talk about a waste of money! From the report, “One DFD firefighter was so
    fearful of retaliation that upon being summoned to testify
    before the Grand Jury, this individual parked blocks
    away and walked to the Grand Jury’s office so that no
    one would identify the car in the Grand Jury parking lot
    and report it to DFD or Union management.” There is no control over who receives a subpoena. Fearful? or do they just have a guilty conscience? Was the Chief of the department included in these writs or Bobby Weist? Well, Mr. Weist was quoted to not have been, and as for the Chief, no clue but I sure hope so.

    DPD, I don’t think my argument is weak. I think your righteousness is mighty. I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals. Judge or be judged. Look in the news: one drink is too many! How many times do we open the newspaper to see a police officer arrested for drunk driving or hit and run drunk driving? I would much rather they “slept it off at the station.” and I am sure the families of the dead would agree.

  209. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    Yes I did write that. Because not everything improper is specifically illegal. The grand jury convenes to examine complaints. Some of these are examples of tort offenses that present liability for the city, rather than criminal offenses that would give the department criminal liability.

    I do share your concern that Mr. Weist was not interviewed. I do not see why a firefighter would go to those lengths described unless they felt aggrieved. But this all goes to my primary focus right now–to have a fair and impartial review of exactly what happened.

    “I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals.”

    I don’t see the relevance of that.

    I have had a few drinks at a bar. I did not have public accommodations to sleep off my drinking at. In those occasions I have had a sober friend drive me home. There are other alternatives to that as well. The rest of us have to operate under those rules, why can’t the fire fighters? But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.

  210. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    Yes I did write that. Because not everything improper is specifically illegal. The grand jury convenes to examine complaints. Some of these are examples of tort offenses that present liability for the city, rather than criminal offenses that would give the department criminal liability.

    I do share your concern that Mr. Weist was not interviewed. I do not see why a firefighter would go to those lengths described unless they felt aggrieved. But this all goes to my primary focus right now–to have a fair and impartial review of exactly what happened.

    “I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals.”

    I don’t see the relevance of that.

    I have had a few drinks at a bar. I did not have public accommodations to sleep off my drinking at. In those occasions I have had a sober friend drive me home. There are other alternatives to that as well. The rest of us have to operate under those rules, why can’t the fire fighters? But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.

  211. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    Yes I did write that. Because not everything improper is specifically illegal. The grand jury convenes to examine complaints. Some of these are examples of tort offenses that present liability for the city, rather than criminal offenses that would give the department criminal liability.

    I do share your concern that Mr. Weist was not interviewed. I do not see why a firefighter would go to those lengths described unless they felt aggrieved. But this all goes to my primary focus right now–to have a fair and impartial review of exactly what happened.

    “I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals.”

    I don’t see the relevance of that.

    I have had a few drinks at a bar. I did not have public accommodations to sleep off my drinking at. In those occasions I have had a sober friend drive me home. There are other alternatives to that as well. The rest of us have to operate under those rules, why can’t the fire fighters? But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.

  212. Doug Paul Davis

    Subversive:

    Yes I did write that. Because not everything improper is specifically illegal. The grand jury convenes to examine complaints. Some of these are examples of tort offenses that present liability for the city, rather than criminal offenses that would give the department criminal liability.

    I do share your concern that Mr. Weist was not interviewed. I do not see why a firefighter would go to those lengths described unless they felt aggrieved. But this all goes to my primary focus right now–to have a fair and impartial review of exactly what happened.

    “I guess you drive 25 in a 25 zone, stop completely and look both way before proceeding through an intersection, and always use your turn signals.”

    I don’t see the relevance of that.

    I have had a few drinks at a bar. I did not have public accommodations to sleep off my drinking at. In those occasions I have had a sober friend drive me home. There are other alternatives to that as well. The rest of us have to operate under those rules, why can’t the fire fighters? But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.

  213. Want Union Reform

    “But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.”

    It is the pattern of wrongdoing that is the most disturbing – it shows a callous disregard of the law and regulations. Not good.

    “Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases.”

    Then how about union reform that says no union official can have ties of any kind to management? Or something of the sort. I am open to suggestions for some sort of reform.

  214. Want Union Reform

    “But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.”

    It is the pattern of wrongdoing that is the most disturbing – it shows a callous disregard of the law and regulations. Not good.

    “Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases.”

    Then how about union reform that says no union official can have ties of any kind to management? Or something of the sort. I am open to suggestions for some sort of reform.

  215. Want Union Reform

    “But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.”

    It is the pattern of wrongdoing that is the most disturbing – it shows a callous disregard of the law and regulations. Not good.

    “Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases.”

    Then how about union reform that says no union official can have ties of any kind to management? Or something of the sort. I am open to suggestions for some sort of reform.

  216. Want Union Reform

    “But frankly, as I have said before, if that were the only thing in the Grand Jury report, this would be an amusing story that really did not have the gravity that the current story does. I think that is the headline getter, but the least of our concerns.”

    It is the pattern of wrongdoing that is the most disturbing – it shows a callous disregard of the law and regulations. Not good.

    “Think Again: I agree with you on the “absolute power” point, but the what I think is unique to this situation is that the union appears to have much closer to “absolute power” than in most cases.”

    Then how about union reform that says no union official can have ties of any kind to management? Or something of the sort. I am open to suggestions for some sort of reform.

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