Assistant City Manager Paul Navazio provided me with that data, the only downside to it is that it is 2006 data from the State Controller’s report. The upside is that it has a pretty good list of comparison cities, so it provides a pretty good picture and frankly I am not certain that much has changed in terms of rank order.
As one can see from the first slide here, the city of Davis is near the bottom in general fund revenue of the comparison cities. What is interesting is that cities like Vacaville, Chico, and Fairfield that have tremendously expanded their sales tax base in recent years by building a number of strip malls with big box stores, are almost identical in terms of general fund revenue (granted we are not looking at sales tax alone). Councilmember Greenwald’s point is not far off that Vacaville does not have a tremendous difference.
Some have suggested that if we simply had a larger tax base, we would be in better financial shape right now. The problem is that larger tax base would mean more expenditures by the city. And once the economy reduces the revenue, the cities have found themselves in a deficit. And yes, I understand that cities should exercise greater degrees of fiscal responsibility, but the fact is they do not. Cities with greater revenue in fact are facing larger problems with the economic downturn.
The second point is really what I was trying to get at last week. Yes, Davis has lower sales tax revenues that other locales, but Davis is actually in a lot better shape that many other cities in terms of budget deficit.
Part of the reason for that is that more general fund revenue also means more general fund expenditures.
Now the expenditure data comes with a large caveat as Paul Navazio explained in his email to me. Basically no two cities are identical for purposes of this type of comparison. Some cities, for example, provide library services, paramedic transport, public health, etc. Very few cities operate there own water and sewer utility, whereas Roseville operates its own electric utility, some cities operate their own Housing Authority, etc. Navazio removed capital program expenditures, that will reduce the expenditures for some cities, for some reason Roseville is coming to mind, but it enables us to better gauge spending on comparable terms.
Based on these data, I make two more general points. First, with regards to city employee salaries–and the biggest concern there is going to be both retirement and rising health costs. Davis has seen as we have presented in the past a meteoric rise in employee salaries over just the eight years in this decade. Total compensation to city employees rose from just over $27 million in 2000-01 to just under $50 million in 2007-08, which is an increase of $21.7 million over an eight year period.
At the same time, tax revenues have not kept up. That is a big concern.
Part of that has been driven by the need to compete with neighboring communities for quality employees. That is indeed a concern and it is one that we need to take into consideration. In fact, as Paul Navazio showed in October, Davis is in fact in better condition than it’s neighbors in terms of city salaries. The problem is that we have still seen a large rise.
Last week the Davis Enterprise surprisingly called for greater transparency in the salary contract process. They in fact, questioned the practice of using recent labor agreements from other nearby communities as benchmarks to help determine Davis’ wages and benefits in an effort to remain competitive.
“Unfortunately, some of our neighbors have been overly generous and, like lemmings, we have followed them over the cliff’s edge.”
That’s actually a pretty good description and so I respectfully have to disagree with the conclusions the city made back in October that simply because we are somewhat better off than our neighbors is not a rationale to continue the same policies that will lead more cities to bankruptcy such as Vallejo has faced.
A final point, I want to make here is that I actually agree that we should expand our sales tax revenue. I see that as a longer term solution to the city’s budget. That is a prime reason I now oppose residential development on a 100 acre parcel of land that is currently zone for light industrial uses. It is the largest remaining parcel within the city limits so zoned and it would be a mistake to take that out of the market.
One of the things we are learning is that the Lewis Properties much like the owners of Westlake, never really marketed the property for business uses. The result is that while they claim there has been no interest, they have not actually tested that theory, and in fact, if that site were to be marketed there seems to evidence that there is some considerable interest just as there are grocers who apparently want to come to Westlake.
While there are considerable differences between Davis and San Luis Obispo, one of the things I have looked at is their model for economic development. In terms of residential development, San Luis Obispo has almost not grown since 1990. I think the population in 1990 was around 42,000 and now it’s around 44,000. What they have done is develop their economic base. I would like to see some of that in Davis.
As I have stated in the past, I am generally opposed to the kind of big box retail companies like Target or Wal Mart. In part, I think they are inefficient producers of tax revenue, often taking more resources out of a location than they bring in. Moreover, from a long term perspective, their policies are not sustainable. We need to move in a different direction.
I think as Councilmembers Sue Greenwald and Stephen Souza expressed pretty eloquently at the previous council meeting during the discussion on Lewis-Cannery, there is a huge and growing green technology industry. Davis is primly situated to take advantage of that. As Councilmember Greenwald suggested, we have missed out on past booms such as the dot.com one. We should not miss out on the green technology boom.
I would also like to see us expand some into retail, but I would prefer smaller and more sustainable types of business other than big box.
If we are smart and innovative, we can make a lot of the kinds of changes that we want without sacrificing the character of our community. Obviously there are some on this blog who do not give a darn about that and in fact want to get rid of that. One wonders why they have chosen to live if here if they dispise it so much. However, I think these people are in the very small minority of the populace in Davis who have repeatedly voted to continue relatively slow growth and strongly environmental principles. Many of these people are the same who derided Measure W and we found out that those people were in the very small minority of Davis residents. For much of Davis, the challenge is how to expand our base without sacrificing what makes Davis, Davis. How do we grow without becoming like Fairfield and Vacaville.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
Doesn't seem as if our gov't is all that excited about alternative energy sources. Until the feds get serious about alternative fuels, only then will all this …going green… nonsense be viable. We have not had a serious energy policy since as far back as I can remember. Gas lines in 1976 went unadressed, and nothing seems to have changed. Both parties (Dems and Reps) need to get their collective act together, and put forth a decent energy policy that promotes all kinds of alternative fuels, and finds way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.So all this talk about …green tech… coming to Davis as a way to generate tax revenue, is just that – TALK. Big box is here now, alternative fuels, and green tech are not now viable as a tax generating comodity. Until it is, we have to work with what we have. By all means, invite small unique businesses here, but I don't see any of them coming! TJ's picked up and went elsewhere bc of the anti-business atmosphere here in Davis.Let's wait and see how Target does. It just might do better than you think. Only time will tell. When Borders came, supposedly they were a pariah. It is time to stop allowing the downtown businesses to keep out any competition. It is hurting Davis economically. Tax dollars are leaking out to Woodland, West Sacramento, Vacaville, and elsewhere. Davis cannot afford this type of policy anymore!
…Doesn't seem as if our gov't is all that excited about alternative energy sources….Alternative energy sources — ethanol, solar, wind — are all subsidized* by the government. However, almost all — if not all — of the production and consumption of these alternatives is done by private actors. This sector of the economy is growing quite fast (though the reversal in oil prices will hurt that trend).You might be interested to know, for example, that Tony's Fine Foods in West Sacramento (which is a big time wholesale bakery and deli) had a 1.2 megawatt solar system installed for its electrical and refrigeration needs. The article says: …The 1.2-megawatt solar electric system at Tony
The Solar industry is still in the sunrise stage, at least in the US. As a country we are well behind Europe and Asian in panel fabrication. Solar and alternative fuels will be at the forefront of the Obama stimulus package. The opportunity exists.
The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The downtown rents have ended lots of otherwise successful businesses. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space. This precludes all but an established business.
Landlords need an established business so that they don’t loose money when the new business start-up stops. Landlords aren’t protected from a bankrupt tenant. If the City wants tax revenue, there has to be a way to promote small business start-ups without having the landlords fund the effort. I don’t think that the City should subsidize any business, but the City should allow people to run businesses out of their homes without large fees or delays.
The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The downtown rents have ended lots of otherwise successful businesses. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space. This precludes all but an established business.
Landlords need an established business so that they don’t loose money when the new business start-up stops. Landlords aren’t protected from a bankrupt tenant. If the City wants tax revenue, there has to be a way to promote small business start-ups without having the landlords fund the effort. I don’t think that the City should subsidize any business, but the City should allow people to run businesses out of their homes without large fees or delays.
The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The downtown rents have ended lots of otherwise successful businesses. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space. This precludes all but an established business.
Landlords need an established business so that they don’t loose money when the new business start-up stops. Landlords aren’t protected from a bankrupt tenant. If the City wants tax revenue, there has to be a way to promote small business start-ups without having the landlords fund the effort. I don’t think that the City should subsidize any business, but the City should allow people to run businesses out of their homes without large fees or delays.
The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The downtown rents have ended lots of otherwise successful businesses. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space. This precludes all but an established business.
Landlords need an established business so that they don’t loose money when the new business start-up stops. Landlords aren’t protected from a bankrupt tenant. If the City wants tax revenue, there has to be a way to promote small business start-ups without having the landlords fund the effort. I don’t think that the City should subsidize any business, but the City should allow people to run businesses out of their homes without large fees or delays.
The city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Refer to “Home occupancy” here. From this I understand that the city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Perhaps the Davis Vanguard is an immediate example of a business run out of a home?
Did I miss your point?
The city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Refer to “Home occupancy” here. From this I understand that the city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Perhaps the Davis Vanguard is an immediate example of a business run out of a home?
Did I miss your point?
The city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Refer to “Home occupancy” here. From this I understand that the city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Perhaps the Davis Vanguard is an immediate example of a business run out of a home?
Did I miss your point?
The city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Refer to “Home occupancy” here. From this I understand that the city does allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
Perhaps the Davis Vanguard is an immediate example of a business run out of a home?
Did I miss your point?
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes. I don’t have the information sheet referred to in the link you provided, so I don’t know what the restrictions are. The Home Occupancy Information fact sheet is not online, but I believe that it restricts a lot of businesses from operating out of homes.
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes. I don’t have the information sheet referred to in the link you provided, so I don’t know what the restrictions are. The Home Occupancy Information fact sheet is not online, but I believe that it restricts a lot of businesses from operating out of homes.
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes. I don’t have the information sheet referred to in the link you provided, so I don’t know what the restrictions are. The Home Occupancy Information fact sheet is not online, but I believe that it restricts a lot of businesses from operating out of homes.
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes. I don’t have the information sheet referred to in the link you provided, so I don’t know what the restrictions are. The Home Occupancy Information fact sheet is not online, but I believe that it restricts a lot of businesses from operating out of homes.
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
What kinds of business would you like to see that are currently restricted from home occupancy?
I think you have to be somewhat reasonable as to what kinds of businesses can operate from a home. I don’t think neighbors would appreciate the traffic caused if a restaurant or grocery/retail store opened up in a home in the middle of a residential area.
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
What kinds of business would you like to see that are currently restricted from home occupancy?
I think you have to be somewhat reasonable as to what kinds of businesses can operate from a home. I don’t think neighbors would appreciate the traffic caused if a restaurant or grocery/retail store opened up in a home in the middle of a residential area.
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
What kinds of business would you like to see that are currently restricted from home occupancy?
I think you have to be somewhat reasonable as to what kinds of businesses can operate from a home. I don’t think neighbors would appreciate the traffic caused if a restaurant or grocery/retail store opened up in a home in the middle of a residential area.
The City doesn’t allow all kinds of businesses to be run out of people’s homes.
What kinds of business would you like to see that are currently restricted from home occupancy?
I think you have to be somewhat reasonable as to what kinds of businesses can operate from a home. I don’t think neighbors would appreciate the traffic caused if a restaurant or grocery/retail store opened up in a home in the middle of a residential area.
“The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space.”
You want someone to run a restaurant in a residential neighborhood full of detached single family homes with kids and dogs and so on?
I’m generally dubious of most zoning restrictions, when the use does not impose a significant cost on neighboring properties or the city as a corporation. However, any business operation in a house which involves attracting the traffic of customers or suppliers or delivery trucks to a suburban neighborhood obviously implies a very high cost to neighboring properties and rightly is prohibited by zoning restrictions.
By contrast, there is no restriction against a consultant or novelist or a computer programmer from working out of his house. Those kinds of businesses don’t reduce the quality of life for neighboring properties.
“The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space.”
You want someone to run a restaurant in a residential neighborhood full of detached single family homes with kids and dogs and so on?
I’m generally dubious of most zoning restrictions, when the use does not impose a significant cost on neighboring properties or the city as a corporation. However, any business operation in a house which involves attracting the traffic of customers or suppliers or delivery trucks to a suburban neighborhood obviously implies a very high cost to neighboring properties and rightly is prohibited by zoning restrictions.
By contrast, there is no restriction against a consultant or novelist or a computer programmer from working out of his house. Those kinds of businesses don’t reduce the quality of life for neighboring properties.
“The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space.”
You want someone to run a restaurant in a residential neighborhood full of detached single family homes with kids and dogs and so on?
I’m generally dubious of most zoning restrictions, when the use does not impose a significant cost on neighboring properties or the city as a corporation. However, any business operation in a house which involves attracting the traffic of customers or suppliers or delivery trucks to a suburban neighborhood obviously implies a very high cost to neighboring properties and rightly is prohibited by zoning restrictions.
By contrast, there is no restriction against a consultant or novelist or a computer programmer from working out of his house. Those kinds of businesses don’t reduce the quality of life for neighboring properties.
“The City needs to allow businesses to be run out of people’s homes. The former Togo’s on 2nd is empty and the landlord wants $5,500 a month for the space.”
You want someone to run a restaurant in a residential neighborhood full of detached single family homes with kids and dogs and so on?
I’m generally dubious of most zoning restrictions, when the use does not impose a significant cost on neighboring properties or the city as a corporation. However, any business operation in a house which involves attracting the traffic of customers or suppliers or delivery trucks to a suburban neighborhood obviously implies a very high cost to neighboring properties and rightly is prohibited by zoning restrictions.
By contrast, there is no restriction against a consultant or novelist or a computer programmer from working out of his house. Those kinds of businesses don’t reduce the quality of life for neighboring properties.
Excellent discussion.
I sort of disagree on big box stores – Davis does need –
Lowes or Home Depot
also
Fry's or Best Buy
That would keep more Davis citizen sales tax dollars in town. Over by Target would be good.
Trader Joes is a must.
Downtown needs stores like Restoration Hardware, William Sonoma, Crate & Barrel. Right now Davis is not shopping destination – not enough interesting stores. Davis has a captive student population and they all have parents. Give them a reason to buy taxable items in Davis. That would help the motels and dining businesses as well.
I like the idea of capitalizing on the green energy boom.
Excellent discussion.
I sort of disagree on big box stores – Davis does need –
Lowes or Home Depot
also
Fry's or Best Buy
That would keep more Davis citizen sales tax dollars in town. Over by Target would be good.
Trader Joes is a must.
Downtown needs stores like Restoration Hardware, William Sonoma, Crate & Barrel. Right now Davis is not shopping destination – not enough interesting stores. Davis has a captive student population and they all have parents. Give them a reason to buy taxable items in Davis. That would help the motels and dining businesses as well.
I like the idea of capitalizing on the green energy boom.
Excellent discussion.
I sort of disagree on big box stores – Davis does need –
Lowes or Home Depot
also
Fry's or Best Buy
That would keep more Davis citizen sales tax dollars in town. Over by Target would be good.
Trader Joes is a must.
Downtown needs stores like Restoration Hardware, William Sonoma, Crate & Barrel. Right now Davis is not shopping destination – not enough interesting stores. Davis has a captive student population and they all have parents. Give them a reason to buy taxable items in Davis. That would help the motels and dining businesses as well.
I like the idea of capitalizing on the green energy boom.
Excellent discussion.
I sort of disagree on big box stores – Davis does need –
Lowes or Home Depot
also
Fry's or Best Buy
That would keep more Davis citizen sales tax dollars in town. Over by Target would be good.
Trader Joes is a must.
Downtown needs stores like Restoration Hardware, William Sonoma, Crate & Barrel. Right now Davis is not shopping destination – not enough interesting stores. Davis has a captive student population and they all have parents. Give them a reason to buy taxable items in Davis. That would help the motels and dining businesses as well.
I like the idea of capitalizing on the green energy boom.
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else?
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else?
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else?
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else?
I did say “stores like”. As an alternative you could have something like The Biggest Little Kitchen store located in Jackson. I think you have to have some name stores, but then I guess you are right it is the specialty stores (around the name stores} that would make Davis unique. How about “The Aggie Store”? – selling farm antiques (hoosiers etc), food and wine (all somehow linked to UCD), farm toys (ertl tractors etc) and and all sorts of garden/orchard implements.
I did say “stores like”. As an alternative you could have something like The Biggest Little Kitchen store located in Jackson. I think you have to have some name stores, but then I guess you are right it is the specialty stores (around the name stores} that would make Davis unique. How about “The Aggie Store”? – selling farm antiques (hoosiers etc), food and wine (all somehow linked to UCD), farm toys (ertl tractors etc) and and all sorts of garden/orchard implements.
I did say “stores like”. As an alternative you could have something like The Biggest Little Kitchen store located in Jackson. I think you have to have some name stores, but then I guess you are right it is the specialty stores (around the name stores} that would make Davis unique. How about “The Aggie Store”? – selling farm antiques (hoosiers etc), food and wine (all somehow linked to UCD), farm toys (ertl tractors etc) and and all sorts of garden/orchard implements.
I did say “stores like”. As an alternative you could have something like The Biggest Little Kitchen store located in Jackson. I think you have to have some name stores, but then I guess you are right it is the specialty stores (around the name stores} that would make Davis unique. How about “The Aggie Store”? – selling farm antiques (hoosiers etc), food and wine (all somehow linked to UCD), farm toys (ertl tractors etc) and and all sorts of garden/orchard implements.
What I would really like to see is something very unique that people will want to come to because they can’t get it anywhere else. That’s a prime reason I favor a restaurant as opposed to a visitor’s center at the Hunt-Boyer building.
What I would really like to see is something very unique that people will want to come to because they can’t get it anywhere else. That’s a prime reason I favor a restaurant as opposed to a visitor’s center at the Hunt-Boyer building.
What I would really like to see is something very unique that people will want to come to because they can’t get it anywhere else. That’s a prime reason I favor a restaurant as opposed to a visitor’s center at the Hunt-Boyer building.
What I would really like to see is something very unique that people will want to come to because they can’t get it anywhere else. That’s a prime reason I favor a restaurant as opposed to a visitor’s center at the Hunt-Boyer building.
“Davis does need – Lowes or Home Depot”
If one of those opened in Davis, Davis Ace* (aka Davis Lumber) would go out of business. If that happened, our downtown would be seriously harmed for a long time. Davis Ace is by far the biggest business in the core area and the single biggest draw.
Among all downtown businesses, I think Davis Ace will (even without a Home Depot) be harmed by the arrival of Target, by dint of the loss of sales in their "home store." The restaurants, ice cream parlors, bookstores, coffee shops, barbers bike shops, real estate brokers, insurers, theaters and so on, are unlikely to be affected at all by Target. But Davis Ace will be.
——-
* For those of you who don't know anything about that store, it is not just locally owned. Davis Lumber Co. has been in the Anderson family (wholely or in partnership) for more than 100 years. The Anderson Bank Building (at 2nd & G) was so-named for a member of that family. Because of that heritage, it would be quite a loss to Davis to lose Davis Ace.
“Davis does need – Lowes or Home Depot”
If one of those opened in Davis, Davis Ace* (aka Davis Lumber) would go out of business. If that happened, our downtown would be seriously harmed for a long time. Davis Ace is by far the biggest business in the core area and the single biggest draw.
Among all downtown businesses, I think Davis Ace will (even without a Home Depot) be harmed by the arrival of Target, by dint of the loss of sales in their "home store." The restaurants, ice cream parlors, bookstores, coffee shops, barbers bike shops, real estate brokers, insurers, theaters and so on, are unlikely to be affected at all by Target. But Davis Ace will be.
——-
* For those of you who don't know anything about that store, it is not just locally owned. Davis Lumber Co. has been in the Anderson family (wholely or in partnership) for more than 100 years. The Anderson Bank Building (at 2nd & G) was so-named for a member of that family. Because of that heritage, it would be quite a loss to Davis to lose Davis Ace.
“Davis does need – Lowes or Home Depot”
If one of those opened in Davis, Davis Ace* (aka Davis Lumber) would go out of business. If that happened, our downtown would be seriously harmed for a long time. Davis Ace is by far the biggest business in the core area and the single biggest draw.
Among all downtown businesses, I think Davis Ace will (even without a Home Depot) be harmed by the arrival of Target, by dint of the loss of sales in their "home store." The restaurants, ice cream parlors, bookstores, coffee shops, barbers bike shops, real estate brokers, insurers, theaters and so on, are unlikely to be affected at all by Target. But Davis Ace will be.
——-
* For those of you who don't know anything about that store, it is not just locally owned. Davis Lumber Co. has been in the Anderson family (wholely or in partnership) for more than 100 years. The Anderson Bank Building (at 2nd & G) was so-named for a member of that family. Because of that heritage, it would be quite a loss to Davis to lose Davis Ace.
“Davis does need – Lowes or Home Depot”
If one of those opened in Davis, Davis Ace* (aka Davis Lumber) would go out of business. If that happened, our downtown would be seriously harmed for a long time. Davis Ace is by far the biggest business in the core area and the single biggest draw.
Among all downtown businesses, I think Davis Ace will (even without a Home Depot) be harmed by the arrival of Target, by dint of the loss of sales in their "home store." The restaurants, ice cream parlors, bookstores, coffee shops, barbers bike shops, real estate brokers, insurers, theaters and so on, are unlikely to be affected at all by Target. But Davis Ace will be.
——-
* For those of you who don't know anything about that store, it is not just locally owned. Davis Lumber Co. has been in the Anderson family (wholely or in partnership) for more than 100 years. The Anderson Bank Building (at 2nd & G) was so-named for a member of that family. Because of that heritage, it would be quite a loss to Davis to lose Davis Ace.
Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily. HD provides more choice in lighting, major appliances, lumber, power tools and garden tools. However I always go to a hardware store for hardware. Ace has the advantage of location and it is easy to shop there. I agree Target probably is a biggger challenge at least related to all of the soft stuff Ace sells.
Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily. HD provides more choice in lighting, major appliances, lumber, power tools and garden tools. However I always go to a hardware store for hardware. Ace has the advantage of location and it is easy to shop there. I agree Target probably is a biggger challenge at least related to all of the soft stuff Ace sells.
Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily. HD provides more choice in lighting, major appliances, lumber, power tools and garden tools. However I always go to a hardware store for hardware. Ace has the advantage of location and it is easy to shop there. I agree Target probably is a biggger challenge at least related to all of the soft stuff Ace sells.
Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily. HD provides more choice in lighting, major appliances, lumber, power tools and garden tools. However I always go to a hardware store for hardware. Ace has the advantage of location and it is easy to shop there. I agree Target probably is a biggger challenge at least related to all of the soft stuff Ace sells.
“Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily.”
You must be thinkiing of Cranston Hardware in Woodland? Or you must have a different definition of “easily”? Or are you ignorant of what happened to Cranston’s? And igorant of how long Cranston’s was a profitable concern in Woodland?
I’m not saying there would not be great benefits to having a store like Home Depot in Davis. My comments above are to point out that driving Davis Ace out of business would not be done without some damage to downtown and our heritage, as well as a steep loss to local ownership.
“Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily.”
You must be thinkiing of Cranston Hardware in Woodland? Or you must have a different definition of “easily”? Or are you ignorant of what happened to Cranston’s? And igorant of how long Cranston’s was a profitable concern in Woodland?
I’m not saying there would not be great benefits to having a store like Home Depot in Davis. My comments above are to point out that driving Davis Ace out of business would not be done without some damage to downtown and our heritage, as well as a steep loss to local ownership.
“Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily.”
You must be thinkiing of Cranston Hardware in Woodland? Or you must have a different definition of “easily”? Or are you ignorant of what happened to Cranston’s? And igorant of how long Cranston’s was a profitable concern in Woodland?
I’m not saying there would not be great benefits to having a store like Home Depot in Davis. My comments above are to point out that driving Davis Ace out of business would not be done without some damage to downtown and our heritage, as well as a steep loss to local ownership.
“Good hardware stores can stand up to Home Depot easily.”
You must be thinkiing of Cranston Hardware in Woodland? Or you must have a different definition of “easily”? Or are you ignorant of what happened to Cranston’s? And igorant of how long Cranston’s was a profitable concern in Woodland?
I’m not saying there would not be great benefits to having a store like Home Depot in Davis. My comments above are to point out that driving Davis Ace out of business would not be done without some damage to downtown and our heritage, as well as a steep loss to local ownership.
I agree with your concern about losing a business and I am ignorant about the store in Woodland.
I have watched HDs open and certainly some nearby stores close, but others don’t. I know of one hardware store that doubled in size after HD opened.HD charges just a much as local hardware stores on most items.
I agree with your concern about losing a business and I am ignorant about the store in Woodland.
I have watched HDs open and certainly some nearby stores close, but others don’t. I know of one hardware store that doubled in size after HD opened.HD charges just a much as local hardware stores on most items.
I agree with your concern about losing a business and I am ignorant about the store in Woodland.
I have watched HDs open and certainly some nearby stores close, but others don’t. I know of one hardware store that doubled in size after HD opened.HD charges just a much as local hardware stores on most items.
I agree with your concern about losing a business and I am ignorant about the store in Woodland.
I have watched HDs open and certainly some nearby stores close, but others don’t. I know of one hardware store that doubled in size after HD opened.HD charges just a much as local hardware stores on most items.
Hello David Greenwald,
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else. Are you really that clueless? Perhaps, if you are interested, you could do some stats on that premise and come up with a figure instead of a blanket statement.
Hello David Greenwald,
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else. Are you really that clueless? Perhaps, if you are interested, you could do some stats on that premise and come up with a figure instead of a blanket statement.
Hello David Greenwald,
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else. Are you really that clueless? Perhaps, if you are interested, you could do some stats on that premise and come up with a figure instead of a blanket statement.
Hello David Greenwald,
How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else. Are you really that clueless? Perhaps, if you are interested, you could do some stats on that premise and come up with a figure instead of a blanket statement.
To: David Greenwald,
What would be the unique business you would like to see? I know you favor a restaurant but how much tax income are you guessing would be made? Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.
To: David Greenwald,
What would be the unique business you would like to see? I know you favor a restaurant but how much tax income are you guessing would be made? Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.
To: David Greenwald,
What would be the unique business you would like to see? I know you favor a restaurant but how much tax income are you guessing would be made? Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.
To: David Greenwald,
What would be the unique business you would like to see? I know you favor a restaurant but how much tax income are you guessing would be made? Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.
“Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.”
Haven’t met me lately I guess… 😉
“Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.”
Haven’t met me lately I guess… 😉
“Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.”
Haven’t met me lately I guess… 😉
“Actually, having met you and Cecilia, I think I know why you favor an eating establishment.”
Haven’t met me lately I guess… 😉
“How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else”
I see, but that’s not what the poster said.
Look, I don’t have any doubt that people shop outside of town, never denied that, the question is what is the solution to that. Some people want to bring in the same chains and stores that you can go to in any town. I would prefer to try to develop something unique and build up a local business base and local shopping options.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
“How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else”
I see, but that’s not what the poster said.
Look, I don’t have any doubt that people shop outside of town, never denied that, the question is what is the solution to that. Some people want to bring in the same chains and stores that you can go to in any town. I would prefer to try to develop something unique and build up a local business base and local shopping options.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
“How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else”
I see, but that’s not what the poster said.
Look, I don’t have any doubt that people shop outside of town, never denied that, the question is what is the solution to that. Some people want to bring in the same chains and stores that you can go to in any town. I would prefer to try to develop something unique and build up a local business base and local shopping options.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
“How would Davis become a shopping destination by having the same stores as everyone else??
The money would be spent here by the Davis people who currently shop somewhere else”
I see, but that’s not what the poster said.
Look, I don’t have any doubt that people shop outside of town, never denied that, the question is what is the solution to that. Some people want to bring in the same chains and stores that you can go to in any town. I would prefer to try to develop something unique and build up a local business base and local shopping options.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.
The Targets and other big boxes are going to increasingly become dinosaurs in the new world that is emerging.
I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.
“I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.”
I believe Costco had increasing sales as well. As I interpret it, DPD is assuming this economic downturn along with other factors such as peak oil is going to result in a sudden lifestyle shift for Americans. It is certainly one theory and a plausible outcome, but it is by no means assured. This could merely be another recession that, while big, we come out of with a continued strong economy. By the time external factors drive big box stores out of business, consumer preferences may beat them to the punch, just like downtown department stores and indoor megamalls. Nothing is immune from obsolescence in a competitive economy. It probably won’t be a recession or peak oil that eliminates big box. In my opinion energy conservation and alternative fuel substitution will delay and smooth out the otherwise disruptive effect that peak oil will have on our lifestyles. I think the transition will be more orderly and big boxes may survive and even thrive. Nobody really knows how it will play out and there really isn’t an endpoint or “final lifestyle” Americans will be living. It constantly evolves.
“I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.”
I believe Costco had increasing sales as well. As I interpret it, DPD is assuming this economic downturn along with other factors such as peak oil is going to result in a sudden lifestyle shift for Americans. It is certainly one theory and a plausible outcome, but it is by no means assured. This could merely be another recession that, while big, we come out of with a continued strong economy. By the time external factors drive big box stores out of business, consumer preferences may beat them to the punch, just like downtown department stores and indoor megamalls. Nothing is immune from obsolescence in a competitive economy. It probably won’t be a recession or peak oil that eliminates big box. In my opinion energy conservation and alternative fuel substitution will delay and smooth out the otherwise disruptive effect that peak oil will have on our lifestyles. I think the transition will be more orderly and big boxes may survive and even thrive. Nobody really knows how it will play out and there really isn’t an endpoint or “final lifestyle” Americans will be living. It constantly evolves.
“I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.”
I believe Costco had increasing sales as well. As I interpret it, DPD is assuming this economic downturn along with other factors such as peak oil is going to result in a sudden lifestyle shift for Americans. It is certainly one theory and a plausible outcome, but it is by no means assured. This could merely be another recession that, while big, we come out of with a continued strong economy. By the time external factors drive big box stores out of business, consumer preferences may beat them to the punch, just like downtown department stores and indoor megamalls. Nothing is immune from obsolescence in a competitive economy. It probably won’t be a recession or peak oil that eliminates big box. In my opinion energy conservation and alternative fuel substitution will delay and smooth out the otherwise disruptive effect that peak oil will have on our lifestyles. I think the transition will be more orderly and big boxes may survive and even thrive. Nobody really knows how it will play out and there really isn’t an endpoint or “final lifestyle” Americans will be living. It constantly evolves.
“I would like to believe you, but when Wal-Mart shows sales growth, even through a recession, (see this), it doesn’t make me think that we’re on the verge of something different.
Admittedly, the same article also mentions a decline in sales for Target. Nevertheless, Wal-Mart is held up as the model of how a big box store should operate.”
I believe Costco had increasing sales as well. As I interpret it, DPD is assuming this economic downturn along with other factors such as peak oil is going to result in a sudden lifestyle shift for Americans. It is certainly one theory and a plausible outcome, but it is by no means assured. This could merely be another recession that, while big, we come out of with a continued strong economy. By the time external factors drive big box stores out of business, consumer preferences may beat them to the punch, just like downtown department stores and indoor megamalls. Nothing is immune from obsolescence in a competitive economy. It probably won’t be a recession or peak oil that eliminates big box. In my opinion energy conservation and alternative fuel substitution will delay and smooth out the otherwise disruptive effect that peak oil will have on our lifestyles. I think the transition will be more orderly and big boxes may survive and even thrive. Nobody really knows how it will play out and there really isn’t an endpoint or “final lifestyle” Americans will be living. It constantly evolves.
ANON 9:56
Well said on all points.
ANON 9:56
Well said on all points.
ANON 9:56
Well said on all points.
ANON 9:56
Well said on all points.
Very well written summary of the situation. I think that your analogy to SLObo is a good one and far more apt than Vacaville. Our objective should be to hold population to as close to zero growth as possible and grow our revenue per capita.
This is actually done far more easily than needing some big box retail, what we need is some big ticket retail. Davis needs to develop into a hub for green energy retail sales. What about turning the Cannery site (once we get rid of the current home builders) into a Green Energy Hub? Perhaps coupled with an electric/hybrid auto mall? The person who will buy this kind of vehicle is not a casual shopper who will need to be lured by balloons and bright lights along the freeway. If you want to buy your Tesla, come to Davis. If you want to purchase a plug-in hybrid and get it serviced, come to Davis.
Take it a step further, farm equipment is a massive revenue producer. Hypbrid combines, biodiesel powered tractors, solar irrigation pumps could be sold retail here. With the hundreds of millions of dollars in CARB funds available for diesel emission reduction (Carl Moyer Program) focused on off-road emitters, the farm is ground zero. We have the best Agricultural school in the state, we are next to the state capitol. What we need is leadership AND a great location. The cannery is ideal.
Add to this solar retail etc. Talk Real Goods into opening a store here, or perhaps turn to our existing solar companies like Talbott Solar to give us a good plan for such a thing.
Water filtration, recycling and storage are all critical areas for our region’s future. Why not encourage the development of a retail company to join us here?
Roseville has an auto mall as its revenue anchor. Vacaville has its discount mall, Woodland has big-box retailers and Sacramento has retail malls. Why can’t we be different? Why can’t we come up with a Renewable Resource Mall (doesn’t quite roll off the tongue, but you get the idea)?
We have all the resources we need. We could push our revenue off the chart if we choose to do so, and we could cement our commitment to the environment. A lot of people do little more than put a bumper sticker on their car and think thats it to environmentalism. A true environmentalist is willing to embrace the right kind of development to actually make the world a better place.
Very well written summary of the situation. I think that your analogy to SLObo is a good one and far more apt than Vacaville. Our objective should be to hold population to as close to zero growth as possible and grow our revenue per capita.
This is actually done far more easily than needing some big box retail, what we need is some big ticket retail. Davis needs to develop into a hub for green energy retail sales. What about turning the Cannery site (once we get rid of the current home builders) into a Green Energy Hub? Perhaps coupled with an electric/hybrid auto mall? The person who will buy this kind of vehicle is not a casual shopper who will need to be lured by balloons and bright lights along the freeway. If you want to buy your Tesla, come to Davis. If you want to purchase a plug-in hybrid and get it serviced, come to Davis.
Take it a step further, farm equipment is a massive revenue producer. Hypbrid combines, biodiesel powered tractors, solar irrigation pumps could be sold retail here. With the hundreds of millions of dollars in CARB funds available for diesel emission reduction (Carl Moyer Program) focused on off-road emitters, the farm is ground zero. We have the best Agricultural school in the state, we are next to the state capitol. What we need is leadership AND a great location. The cannery is ideal.
Add to this solar retail etc. Talk Real Goods into opening a store here, or perhaps turn to our existing solar companies like Talbott Solar to give us a good plan for such a thing.
Water filtration, recycling and storage are all critical areas for our region’s future. Why not encourage the development of a retail company to join us here?
Roseville has an auto mall as its revenue anchor. Vacaville has its discount mall, Woodland has big-box retailers and Sacramento has retail malls. Why can’t we be different? Why can’t we come up with a Renewable Resource Mall (doesn’t quite roll off the tongue, but you get the idea)?
We have all the resources we need. We could push our revenue off the chart if we choose to do so, and we could cement our commitment to the environment. A lot of people do little more than put a bumper sticker on their car and think thats it to environmentalism. A true environmentalist is willing to embrace the right kind of development to actually make the world a better place.
Very well written summary of the situation. I think that your analogy to SLObo is a good one and far more apt than Vacaville. Our objective should be to hold population to as close to zero growth as possible and grow our revenue per capita.
This is actually done far more easily than needing some big box retail, what we need is some big ticket retail. Davis needs to develop into a hub for green energy retail sales. What about turning the Cannery site (once we get rid of the current home builders) into a Green Energy Hub? Perhaps coupled with an electric/hybrid auto mall? The person who will buy this kind of vehicle is not a casual shopper who will need to be lured by balloons and bright lights along the freeway. If you want to buy your Tesla, come to Davis. If you want to purchase a plug-in hybrid and get it serviced, come to Davis.
Take it a step further, farm equipment is a massive revenue producer. Hypbrid combines, biodiesel powered tractors, solar irrigation pumps could be sold retail here. With the hundreds of millions of dollars in CARB funds available for diesel emission reduction (Carl Moyer Program) focused on off-road emitters, the farm is ground zero. We have the best Agricultural school in the state, we are next to the state capitol. What we need is leadership AND a great location. The cannery is ideal.
Add to this solar retail etc. Talk Real Goods into opening a store here, or perhaps turn to our existing solar companies like Talbott Solar to give us a good plan for such a thing.
Water filtration, recycling and storage are all critical areas for our region’s future. Why not encourage the development of a retail company to join us here?
Roseville has an auto mall as its revenue anchor. Vacaville has its discount mall, Woodland has big-box retailers and Sacramento has retail malls. Why can’t we be different? Why can’t we come up with a Renewable Resource Mall (doesn’t quite roll off the tongue, but you get the idea)?
We have all the resources we need. We could push our revenue off the chart if we choose to do so, and we could cement our commitment to the environment. A lot of people do little more than put a bumper sticker on their car and think thats it to environmentalism. A true environmentalist is willing to embrace the right kind of development to actually make the world a better place.
Very well written summary of the situation. I think that your analogy to SLObo is a good one and far more apt than Vacaville. Our objective should be to hold population to as close to zero growth as possible and grow our revenue per capita.
This is actually done far more easily than needing some big box retail, what we need is some big ticket retail. Davis needs to develop into a hub for green energy retail sales. What about turning the Cannery site (once we get rid of the current home builders) into a Green Energy Hub? Perhaps coupled with an electric/hybrid auto mall? The person who will buy this kind of vehicle is not a casual shopper who will need to be lured by balloons and bright lights along the freeway. If you want to buy your Tesla, come to Davis. If you want to purchase a plug-in hybrid and get it serviced, come to Davis.
Take it a step further, farm equipment is a massive revenue producer. Hypbrid combines, biodiesel powered tractors, solar irrigation pumps could be sold retail here. With the hundreds of millions of dollars in CARB funds available for diesel emission reduction (Carl Moyer Program) focused on off-road emitters, the farm is ground zero. We have the best Agricultural school in the state, we are next to the state capitol. What we need is leadership AND a great location. The cannery is ideal.
Add to this solar retail etc. Talk Real Goods into opening a store here, or perhaps turn to our existing solar companies like Talbott Solar to give us a good plan for such a thing.
Water filtration, recycling and storage are all critical areas for our region’s future. Why not encourage the development of a retail company to join us here?
Roseville has an auto mall as its revenue anchor. Vacaville has its discount mall, Woodland has big-box retailers and Sacramento has retail malls. Why can’t we be different? Why can’t we come up with a Renewable Resource Mall (doesn’t quite roll off the tongue, but you get the idea)?
We have all the resources we need. We could push our revenue off the chart if we choose to do so, and we could cement our commitment to the environment. A lot of people do little more than put a bumper sticker on their car and think thats it to environmentalism. A true environmentalist is willing to embrace the right kind of development to actually make the world a better place.
A restaurant in Hunt Boyer does not work, due to the structural layout of the building.
It is set up for professional offices.
A restaurant in Hunt Boyer does not work, due to the structural layout of the building.
It is set up for professional offices.
A restaurant in Hunt Boyer does not work, due to the structural layout of the building.
It is set up for professional offices.
A restaurant in Hunt Boyer does not work, due to the structural layout of the building.
It is set up for professional offices.