Stab Victim from Neo-Nazi Rally Remains Unidentified

Anti-Fascist-1By Jerika L.H.

An anti-fascist activist (pictured above) still remains unidentified after a violent altercation with white supremacists at Sunday’s neo-Nazi rally at the State Capitol.  The 19-year-old known only as Vincent is currently hospitalized and receiving treatment for six stab wounds; it remains unknown if he is in intensive care or the severity of his condition. Six activists in total still remain in the hospital.  The young man carried no form of identification and his last name remains a mystery to those who only met him briefly before he was rushed off to receive medical care. His lack of identifying documents are making it impossible for hospital staff and fellow activists to contact his family to notify them of his condition. Witnesses who had spoken to Vincent prior to the stabbing divulged that he is originally from Chicago and had only lived in Sacramento for six days. Concerned parties have taken to social media to spread his photo, in hopes that someone can identify him and notify his family and friends.

The altercation that led to his injury stemmed from the permitted white supremacy rally on the Capitol grounds last Sunday. Anti-fascist activists took up violent methods to express their vehement disapproval of the Traditionalist Worker Party’s presence. Seven people ended up stabbed and nine were hospitalized after a series of violent outbreaks that some in the Antifa Sacramento group call “a warning to racists that white supremacy will be met with dedicated anti-fascist militancy.”

A masked Antifa (anti-fascist) member named “Mo” echoed the sentiment. “We are here to ricochet the violence of oppression and racism back onto the bodies of those that inflict it on us, both historically and at present. We are standing up as a call to arms that we won’t let white supremacy parade in our street and continue to terrorize people. The racism that is embedded into our social structure does physical, spiritual, mental, and emotional harm to people of color and we are putting our foot down today with this event, which has been sponsored and harbored by the state and sanctioned by the police. This is a domestic terrorist group that has been responsible for countless deaths and violence.”

While many have questioned the state’s approval of the rally, permit given the violent clashes between protestors and white supremacists that took place in Anaheim earlier this year, others have come forward to voice their support for public manifestations of white supremacy. Mainstream media has also been met with accusations that portrayals have sympathized with the neo-Nazi group, or “racist apologism.”

Anti-Fascist-3

Online polls have shown mixed acceptance of the violence, while others have regarded it as “a breach on freedom of assembly.” Many activists admitted to arriving with the intention of violence, but others say they have been misrepresented as the aggressor. In addition to wooden poles, the police recovered a loaded gun but have been unable to identify its owner or affiliation.

Anti-Fascist-2

Witness Byron Allan recounts his take on what unfolded Sunday. “I was there from the start. From the beginning the organizers stated that our mission was to keep them off of the Capitol steps. Only to obstruct and if you had to, defend yourself. We waited in the baking hot sun for 3 1/2 hours chanting ‘Nazi scum, get off our streets’ and other various derogatory epithets. Around 12:30 we received intel that they were being held back by the police on the south side. We rushed over there ready to shout them down. There was a brief faceoff before the group of Nazis rushed the police line. The protesters that were willing to fight did and a few paid the cost. The peaceful protesters stayed back. Somebody maced the crowd forcing us back to the west side. I remind you that there were people in their 60’s on our side. I personally saw two black guys that had been stabbed. Then through pretty much mass consensus we decided to take their venue as recourse. We sat there in heat drinking water and chanting. When a couple of them snuck around to the south side and started zieg heiling, in recourse to the stabbings, they got beat with sticks and an ashtray rained on them. The damage to the window was a result of the cops bringing the Nazis inside the Capitol. We weren’t there to destroy our own city, but when tensions are high s*** happens. After that the rally was canceled. We then decided to stay until the time their permit was set to expire. Job done. What we did was not unconstitutional. The constitution is to protect us from the government becoming tyrannous.” He continues, “Our intent was obstruction not destruction. We knew that violence was possible, but that wasn’t our goal. There were people in their 60s on our side. We weren’t trying to put [other activists] in harm’s way. But, in my opinion, if the people wielding sticks didn’t square off with the Nazis, more people would have been stabbed.”

Demonstrator Mario Chavez admits he can understand the anger but says it wasn’t worth it. “I don’t think any one of us is worth getting hurt over their white supremacy- we are harmed enough by it. They [TWP] are making fools of themselves to hold this rally. They are 20 crazy people. I’m saddened we weren’t able to just come here and laugh at them. It hurts my heart that people on our side were injured. Especially since the white supremacists are just going to say “self-defense” and the structurally racist court system will bow to them – they will get away scot-free.”

Antifa Sacramento released the following statement on Sunday: “Today in Sacramento, Anti-Fascist Action in conjunction with hundreds of fellow Anti-Fascists from near and far successfully shut down the Traditionalist Worker’s Party (TWP) attempt to hold a white supremacist rally on the capitol. Protestors took and held the west steps, preventing the fascists from being able to reach their rally destination. TWP chairman Matthew Heimbach skipped out on the rally despite making previous plans to attend, opting instead to send his footmen out to do his dirty-work. Two lone bigots briefly made their way to an adjacent side, where one of them sieg heiled on the Capitol steps. Despite the circumstances, the fascist thugs celebrate their poorly coordinated and executed ‘mobilization’ of around 20 people as a victory, solely on the grounds that they injured more people than their opposition did. Our victory did not come without consequence, and several have been hurt.” Among those injured is Vincent, the unidentified teen in question. As for the others who received medical treatment, CHP Officer George Granada commented, “Luckily there were no injuries to officers, tourists or people of the general public.”

Anti-repression organizer K. Karlson has been among those desperately seeking answers on Vincent’s identity. “He came to the Capitol Sunday to oppose the violence of neo-Nazis and the klu klux klan. He was on the south side of the Capitol when the Nazis rolled through with bayonets and wielding knives and was stabbed multiple times in the chest. He went into hospital without having told his friends his last name and he’s very likely one of two in critical condition. Supporters are unsure if his family has been notified of his condition at present. The fund that was originally set up for jail support has been converted to a fund for medical assistance.” Currently, $12,466 has already been raised by 216 people through the following online platform:  https://rally.org/June26th?utm_source=share.

Anyone who recognizes Vincent from the sole masked photo is asked to contact the funding website, or reach out to the local Antifa Sacramento group with any information that may lead to his identification.

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96 thoughts on “Stab Victim from Neo-Nazi Rally Remains Unidentified”

  1. Barack Palin

    The left wing fascist thugs tried to shut down the right wing fascist thugs.  Leftist organizations called BAMN and Antifa precipitated the violence then it got out of hand.

    1. David Greenwald

      There seems to have been a rise in political violence this year – I’ll be interested to see if that continues or if this is just a blip.

        1. South of Davis

          BP wrote:

          > You’re correct and most of the violence is coming from the left.

          Violence comes when people are pretty sure “they can get away with it”

          In the 1950’s people would often beat down gay guys they saw kissing knowing that the conservative anti-gay politicians and cops would look the other way.

          Today people are going to continue to beat down Trump supporters knowing that since every major city in america is run by liberals the anti Trump politicians and cops will look the other way.

          P.S. While it is true that many individual cops are pro-Trump I don’t believe that a single major city police union will endorse Trump and every cop knows that if you get your union mad at you your career is in trouble.

          P.P.S. Not to pick on the left since I know that right wingers in little right wing back waters around the US will still give the beat down to “people they don’t like the looks of” knowing that their hillbilly cops/politicians/cousins will look the other way…

          1. David Greenwald

            “Violence comes when people are pretty sure “they can get away with it””

            That I disagree with.

        2. David Greenwald

          I see it differently – I see both sides playing a role in the uptick – it is a response and counter-response. When both sides arrive armed, the “he started” defense no longer works.

        3. Barack Palin

          “That I disagree with.”

          Then why did most of the Antifa and Bamn leftist fascists wear masks and bandannas over their faces?

           it is a response and counter-response

          All in the wording, some would see it as an attack by the leftist fascists and then a self defense counter-response.

          The cops have stated that the leftist groups started the violence.

          1. David Greenwald

            I’m more interested in the rise of political violence than trying to pin-point whether it’s a left or right phenomena. Both groups are extremists. The Neo-Nazis were trying to provoke a response. They got the response they wanted. Not sure what they gain from it. I support the right of free speech, but I would have preferred everyone would have ignored them.

          2. David Greenwald

            “Then why did most of the Antifa and Bamn leftist fascists wear masks and bandannas over their faces?”

            “It is a response and counter-response”

            That line from me was not in response to that line from you.

        4. South of Davis

          I wrote:
          > Violence comes when people are pretty sure
          > “they can get away with it”
          Then David wrote:
          > That I disagree with.

          You may “disagree” but you can’t ignore the fact that a very small percentage of violent acts occur when someone does not think “they can get away with it”.  Have you ever you heard of a skinhead running unarmed in to a NAACP rally to punch someone or a BLM guy running in to a KKK rally to punch someone? Do even .01% of attacks and/or rapes occur when the attacker or rapist knows an armed cop is watching?

        5. Barack Palin

           The Neo-Nazis were trying to provoke a response. 

          You seem to be brushing this off as if the Neo-Nazi’s got what they asked for.

          What if 400 2×4 wielding mask wearing Neo-Nazi’s showed up at a permitted BLM rally with 30 pericipants and started beating them with the clubs as the cops stood back and let it get started.  Would you just be writing it off that the BLM provoked a response?  I think we all know the anser to that.

        6. Barack Palin

          Don’t kid yourself, you know as well as I if my scenario ever happened imo you would be writing multiple articles about the travesty of it all.

      1. hpierce

        David, I find it interesting that you’ll “be interested to see” if there is an increase in political violence… I’d abhor, condemn it, but that’s just me… hpierce, reporting…

    2. South of Davis

      BP wrote:

      > The left wing fascist thugs tried to shut down the right wing fascist thugs. 

      Not only that the “left wing fascist thugs” got the “right wing fascist thugs” national publicity and will probably help them recruit when they now have vireos like the one below showing a crazy racist white guy attacked by a crazy fascist minority women (while police watch and don’t seem to care)…

      http://kste.iheart.com/onair/armstrong-and-getty-53826/video-yvette-felarca-and-her-cohort-14861776/

      It is important that all white guys didn’t grow up playing golf at the country club with their Dad and his buddies from the Sutter Club (more white guys grew up with Dads in jail than any other race).  With Latinos taking almost all the jobs that these poor uneducated white guys did when I was a kid (e.g. construction, farm & ranch fix it guys, etc.)  there is a LARGE and growing group of white guys who don’t have good jobs and don’t have a bright future.

      1. Barack Palin

        SOD, I’ve read many acounts where TWP said the officers just let things happen and get out of hand.  They said the riot cops didn’t try to keep the groups separated as they had done in past rallies.  Your video backs up their claims.

        I wee where the Yvette Felarca in your video is a middle school teacher in Berkeley.  She’s also a BAMN organizer.  Are these the types of teachers we want teaching our kids?  It looks like some of the school’s parents don’t think so.

        http://www.berkeleyside.com/2016/06/27/anonymous-email-threatens-students-at-berkeley-school-after-sacramento-rally-tied-to-local-teacher/

        1. Alan Miller

          Sounds like the cops didn’t think any of the people who came to the rally to fight were worth getting injured over.

          Who does one root for? Sounds like the cops rooted for them to sort it out themselves.

        2. Misanthrop

          “Are these the types of people we want teaching our kids?”

          Maybe yes maybe no. It depends on whether or not she has broken any laws. I can’t really figure it out from the videos. Organizing and protesting are not prohibited activities. If she gets charged for something that subjects her to be removed from the classroom under the statutes that apply then she should not be in the classroom until the case is settled. If she is convicted she would likely then have her credential revoked.

          I do find it ironic that a person who teaches at a school named for MLK has embraced the rhetoric of Malcolm X.

          Of course its not surprising that the same people who always try to defend racism on the Vanguard want to condemn only one side here. From my view it looks like a lot of young people came looking for trouble and found it. Meanwhile the homeless guy towing his things in a red wagon who ended up in the middle of it all seems to get no help from anybody.

          Perhaps all these young people should listen more attentively to Taylor Swift:

          “Haters going to hate hate hate hate,

          Shake it off.”

        3. Barack Palin

          Of course its not surprising that the same people who always try to defend racism on the Vanguard want to condemn only one side here.

          Who ever tries to defend racism on the Vanguard?  Examples please.

        4. hpierce

          Misanthrop(e)

          is “assault” a crime? Or, only in “context”?  Is it OK to assault someone who believes something different than you do?

          Like you, I cannot identify the person, so, the presumption is she was not involved… but if she were, would you opine that it was justified (not on her turf… if true, she would appear to have sought out the confrontation), and that a public school teacher should not be subject to any discipline? up to and including dismissal?

        5. Misanthrop

          If she gets convicted of a crime she should be subject to whatever penalties fall out from that. But a bunch of incoherent video that I can’t make sense of isn’t enough for me to say she should lose her credential. However if what people are saying is true that she crossed a line between peaceful protest into violence then a complaint should be filed with the Commission on Teacher Credentialing the body that has the power to evaluate whether or not she should lose her credential.

        6. The Pugilist

          Who defends racism?  You and Frankly are chief suspects in the defense of racism.  You’re even defending it here by implication.  In fact, I think the more important question is give me of an example of time when you condemned racism here.

        7. Barack Palin

          You and Frankly are chief suspects in the defense of racism. 

          Examples please.  Until you can provide proof, which I can tell you right now that you can’t, you need to clam it.

      2. South of Davis

        Misanthrop wrote:

        > Of course its not surprising that the same people who

        > always try to defend racism on the Vanguard

        Like BP I can’t think of anyone who defends racism (other than the few who claim that saying “ALL lives matter” is racist and that it is “not racist” to have a blacks only publicly funded “safe space” with a blacks only drinking fountain).  I would also be interested in reading their names and even better a few links to past Vanguards (that should be easy to find if they are “always” defending racism).

        The Pugilist wrote:

        > there is far too much in the way of KKK sympathy

        Can you name even one person in Davis that supports the KKK?  How about posting the name of a single person out of the 2 million + in the Sacramento MSA who is a KKK supporter?  I have met some racists in my life but in all my years I have never met (or heard of anyone else I know who has met) a KKK supporter (or actual “Klan” member)…

        1. Tia Will

          South of Davis

          You may or may not “know me”. I have no way of knowing since you are anonymous, however, I have related on the Vanguard several times an incident that happened in Sacramento where a KKK supporter and self avowed white supremacist would not allow anyone of dark skin to so much as touch her to provide medical care.

          Yes, racism exists here. It is not “de minis” as Frankly frequently says in what I consider to be a minimization if not a defense. It is certainly not “de minims” for those who are adversely affected by it.

        2. South of Davis

          Tia wrote:

          > I have related on the Vanguard several times an

          > incident that happened in Sacramento where a KKK

          > supporter and self avowed white supremacist would

          > not allow anyone of dark skin to so much as

          > touch her

          Back in 2014 you didn’t mention she was a “KKK Supporter and wrote: “The patient said that she did not allow black people to touch her”

          http://www.davisvanguard.org/2014/08/hate-is-not-a-davis-value/

          Are you sure she said she was an actual “KKK Supporter”?  How many of the other 64 US white supremacist that are big enough to have a Wikipedia page did she also tell you she supports?

          As I have said before we all know that there are “racists” even here in liberal Davis, but while I would not be surprised to find some “KKK Supporters” in white trash trailer park in rural Mississippi I’m guessing that actual KKK supporters around here is pretty small (maybe even smaller than the number of  al Qaeda or Boko Haram “supporters” living in the area).

        3. Barack Palin

          Good find SOD.  I think if the patient said she was a KKK supporter that certainly would’ve part of the original story.  I guess it made for a better “story” today for the current article.

      3. South of Davis

        The Pugilist wrote:

        > Who defends racism?  You and Frankly are chief

        > suspects in the defense of racism.  

        How long did you search before giving up trying to find a single time when I (or Frankly) “defended racism” to the Vanguard site.

        All racism is bad and since I was a little kid my parents told me “not  to judge people by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character”…

         

         

        1. Tia Will

          South of Davis

          Are you sure she said she was an actual “KKK Supporter”?”

          Actually, you are technically correct. It was not my patient, but rather her boyfriend that made reference to the KKK as he was being escorted from the hospital by security for his threatening behavior to multiple members of our staff. The patient, as you pointed out only claimed to be a white supremacist.

  2. SODA

    Call me naive, but when one or both groups arrive with “bayonets and wielding knives” why was it allowed to continue? What grounds are permits acceptable? This illustrates the extent of tolerance to uphold our right to freedom of expression. My heart goes out to all the injured, especially “Vincent”. What a sad story.

  3. Tia Will

    Hi SODA,

    My thoughts also. It would seem to me that intent to commit violence would be apparent from the presence of weapons. Would that not be enough to stop a “peaceful public event” before the violence starts.

    I recently attended a Stanley Cup playoff game in San Jose. Every bag or container was searched and prohibited items secured outside or discarded. I find it difficult to believe that the police could  not provide the same level of security for the numbers of demonstrators on both sides here.

    I may be kicking a hornets nest here, but I think that this does speak to the larger issue of tolerance for violence in our society. And I also believe that SOD is correct that tolerance for violence does seem to hinge on which side of the political spectrum one is on with each side essentially making up stories about why it is more justified when their side resorts to or instigates violence.

    1. South of Davis

      Tia wrote:

      > I recently attended a Stanley Cup playoff game in San Jose.

      > Every bag or container was searched and prohibited items

      > secured outside or discarded.

      Does this mean you in favor of “stop and frisk” by the police?

      I don’t have any problem with Tia searching the bags of people she invites over for dinner or if a privately owned stadium wants to search people before they let them in, but I have a problem with the searching random people…

      1. hpierce

        Actually, am more concerned with comparing the demo/counter-demo being viewed as a “spectator sport” (a hockey game), which we promote and provide ‘security for’… particularly in the absence of ‘referees’, because having ‘referees’ would “chill” free speech.  Taking the analogy further, perhaps the fall of the Roman Empire was due to not enough security at the entrances to the “games”…

        The media, including the VG, helped to ‘egg this on’ in my opinion, by their ‘reporting’ prior to the event… reminds me much of a certain presidential candidate…

        1. Barack Palin

          The media, including the VG, helped to ‘egg this on’ in my opinion, by their ‘reporting’ prior to the event

          Hpierce, I agree, funny but that’s the first thing that came to my mind when I heard that violence had erupted at the event.

      2. Tia Will

        Does this mean you in favor of “stop and frisk” by the police?”

        No. It means I would favor confiscation of obvious weapons carried by those supposedly attending a “peaceful gathering “.

        “random people”

        I do not believe that people gathering for a “peaceful gathering” for which they have a permit, or those who go to counter their event to be “random people”.

         

  4. hpierce

    David (and all), re: your 7:36 post…

    What if the 30-50 “demonstrators” had been completely ignored? Left to talk to the squirrels and themselves?

    What if the “counter-demonstrators” had just taken up a perimeter, and silently turned their backs to the folk whose views they opposed?

    Watch those videos… listen to the cheering when people were attacked and injured… folk on both sides seemed to want to fight, and has a certain “blood lust” about it.

    Animals… perhaps the police should have left and let them kill each other, then let them handle their own injuries/casualties… no police nor EMT services provided…  we might at least have fewer rabid animals around…

  5. Alan Miller

    What if the 30-50 “demonstrators” had been completely ignored? Left to talk to the squirrels and themselves?

    That would be a peaceful non-violent protest.  Very effective and the WSs would have got little press, except to say only 30 showed up.  Ha ha.

    What if the “counter-demonstrators” had just taken up a perimeter, and silently turned their backs to the folk whose views they opposed?

    Also non-violent and peaceful and effective.

    Watch those videos… listen to the cheering when people were attacked and injured… folk on both sides seemed to want to fight, and has a certain “blood lust” about it.

    Yup.

    Animals… perhaps the police should have left and let them kill each other, then let them handle their own injuries/casualties… no police nor EMT services provided…  we might at least have fewer rabid animals around…

    On a less extreme scale, that is kinda what happened.  The police knew these confrontations had got out of hand in other cities.  No surprise.  So seems like they let it happen.

    1. hpierce

      Except, we acted as “co-dependents”… we saved them from the logical results of their respective ‘manias’… this shouldn’t be WWF RAW… a spectator sport supported by the public… with the Police as ‘referees’… both sides were “acting out”…

      Yet, I wonder, WWJD?  WWGhandiD?  WWMLKJrD?  WWDaliLamaD?

      Perhaps we need a vaccine for political ‘rabies’…

        1. South of Davis

          hpierce wrote:

          > should counter-demonstrators require a permit

          > as the demonstrators did?

          We are heading down the road where where every year the government takes more and more of our rights and sells them back to us by making us buy a “permit”.

          If we have “freedom of assembly” we should not have to “pay for a permit” to assemble (to protest or counter-protest)…

          I’m pretty sure that the founding fathers did not want us to ask the government to “permit” us to assemble (and pay them so we can do it).

          I’m in the minority on a lot of things and I’m fine if we go through the steps to amend the Constitution and if the majority of Americans are OK with getting rid of freedom of assembly I’ll accept that (and happily pay for a permit to assemble).  I’m not OK with the government just ignoring the Constitution and deciding who gets to assemble (and who has to pay to do it).

           

  6. The Pugilist

    Guess I have a different view from the Vanguard on this one – I think the police are derelict here – they should have intervened far earlier.  I applaud the leftists for standing up to the KKK and fascism.  We cannot afford to allow it to take root and there is far too much in the way of KKK sympathy.  BP, it reads like you’re trying to defend the KKK here because they are on the right.  Am I wrong?

    1. South of Davis

      The Pugilist wrote:

      > I applaud the leftists for standing up to the KKK

      They were not standing up to the “KKK” they were standing up to the “Traditionalist Worker’s Party” http://www.tradworker.org/

      I went to the web site and while I would not be surprised that every member is is just as racist as a KKK member or Nazi I didn’t see any hoods or swastikas at the event…

      1. The Pugilist

        How would we know?  Isn’t there a reason the KKK wear hoods?  But I do know people like Bill Calhoun have stories about KKK hotspots in the 70s.  Are you they gone now?  Perhaps.  But then again, I thought Trump would crash and burn.

        1. South of Davis

          The Puligist wrote:

          > there is far too much in the way of KKK sympathy

          When I was surprised by this and asked for examples he writes:

          > I do know people like Bill Calhoun have stories about

          > KKK hotspots in the 70s.  Are you they gone now? 

          If you “know a guy who has some stories about the KKK hotspots 40 years ago” is that the same as “there is far too much in the way of KKK sympathy”?

        2. tribeUSA

          You will notice that many members of one side in this fracas were in fact wearing hoods, mainly black hoods (along with black robes, reminiscent of ISIS garb).

          Pugilist, like the mainstream media, your statements are inaccurate. These were not KKK, they were members of the ‘Traditionalist Workers Party’. But not to worry, many in the media and activist community join you in your conceit in labeling them in any arbitrary way they can in order to demonize them.

          According to their charter statement, apparently the TWP is a white advocacy group, in a similar way that BLM advocates for blacks and La Rasa advocates for hispanics. No doubt that each one of these groups, TWP, BLM, and La Rasa have some members who are bigots and racists; however none of these groups officially self-identifies as a racial supremacy group. Would you say that any white advocacy group is categorically racist, whereas any ‘colored’ advocacy group is categorically incapable of being racist?

    2. Barack Palin

       BP, it reads like you’re trying to defend the KKK here because they are on the right.  Am I wrong?

      Wrong!  I’m defending the TWP’s org’s right to free speech.  They obtained a permit and legally have the right to assemble and not be subject to 400 masked leftist fascists trying to violently shut them down.

      Do you feel the leftist fascists had the right to violently shut down their free speech?

        1. The Pugilist

          Sorry but I don’t think people who advocate what the KKK advocates are entitled to first amendment rights – hate speech is incitement to violence.  There isn’t a clean standard, I’ll grant you, but the history of this country and the history in Germany argues against it.

        2. Barack Palin

          Once again, who’s going to make the determination of what is considered free speech and what speech needs to be shut down under your rules?

          What if down the road someone else decides that your speech should be next to get shut down?

          I’m surprised at your opinion here, claiming to be a lawyer and all.

           

        3. hpierce

          Sick/demented, Pugilist… also unconstitutional and un-American… Pugilist,  do you assert my “right” to shut down your “Free speech” by personal violence?  Rest assured, there is no way on heaven and/or earth that I would do so… like those at the demonstration/counter-demonstration your moniker indicates you are ‘looking for a fight’?  You have really stepped over one of my lines…

          But, if you were to act violently in such a situation and, if I was present, even with no weapons, even if I thought I would get the lesser outcome, I’d do what I could to stop your violence, up to and including using lethal force.  No matter what “side” you were espousing (as to that, I hope you have not/will not procreate)… been there, was prepared to do that… things cooled down before the ‘perp’ acted out…

          Stay out of the gene pool… have a nice day…

           

        4. hpierce

          Do you feel the leftist fascists had the right to violently shut down their free speech?

          Yes I do…

          Violence is not “free speech”!
          Context for my most recent comment…

        1. Matt Williams

          Pugilist, the definition I got with my very first hit (Merriam-Webster) appears to fit.

          from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

          Simple Definition of fascism
          “very harsh control or authority”

          Full Definition of fascism
          “a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control”

          I believe you are falling into the trap of converting the common noun “facist/fascism” into the proper noun “Facist/Fascism”

           

      1. Misanthrop

        Not fascists more like anarchists or maybe even less organized like a mob.

        Fascism is the philosophy that the individual’s rights should be secondary to the interests of the greater social good of the state. At least that is what the Doctrine of Fascism by Benito Mussolini argues.

  7. The Pugilist

    This seems appropriate:

    Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. -Elie Wiesel

      1. hpierce

        The oppressor(s) were the demonstrators and the counter-demonstrators… the victims were the public (policing costs, EMT’s, hospital bills not covered by private insurance). Duh…

  8. Tia Will

    hpierce

    “actually, am more concerned with comparing the demo/counter-demo being viewed as a “spectator sport” (a hockey game), which we promote and provide ‘security for’… particularly in the absence of ‘referees’”

    I really don’t think it would have been too difficult, given my previous statements that I am a pacifist, to realize that I was not viewing a “political gathering” as a spectator sport, but was rather commenting on one possible strategy that they police could use to ensure that no one attending was attending armed. I guess I was wrong, and it was too difficult.

  9. Tia Will

    BP

    hate speech is incitement to violence”

    What you pointed out was the 4:00 minute segment of the tape. What you choose to leave out is very telling. You made no mention of the white supremacist ( who disavows any group membership) but actively walks close to a group of counter protestors and verbally taunts them. In my mind, this was not just free speech, but a clear provocation including the words “come on”.  He was not just innocently listening to speeches or walking quietly. He clearly provoked the following aggression which I in no way defend. But he was, as is quite clear on the tape prior to the 4:00 minute mark, literally “asking for it”.

    1. Barack Palin

      Asking for it?  Did you hear what all the leftist fascists were yelling at him.  Were they asking for it?  Did he hit them?   At no time did he raise a hand to hurt anyone but was pelted several times, punched, kicked and knocked to the ground.  I think he would have a great case for assault and battery if he ever chose to persue it.  Did you see the female who was punching him in the ribs and my my the words that came out of her mouth.

      1. Tia Will

        BP

        Asking for it?  Did you hear what all the leftist fascists were yelling at him.  Were they asking for it? “

        Yes, I believe that both sides were “asking for it”. I do not believe that either side had the high ground here. What I was objecting to was your calling it out as though only one side was provoking violence when both clearly were.

    2. hpierce

      Listen closely to the tape, and watch the video again… provacateur/provoked lines are very hazy… the individual reacted to a ‘mob’… no innocents here… he did not run up to take someone’s sign/flag… members of the mob did… he did not throw the first actual punch.

  10. tribeUSA

    You will notice that many members of one side in this fracas were in fact wearing hoods, mainly black hoods (along with black robes, reminiscent of ISIS garb).

    Pugilist, like the mainstream media, your statements are inaccurate. These were not KKK, they were members of the ‘Traditionalist Workers Party’. But not to worry, many in the media and activist community join you in your conceit in labeling them in any arbitrary way they can in order to demonize them.

    According to their charter statement, apparently the TWP is a white advocacy group, in a similar way that BLM advocates for blacks and La Rasa advocates for hispanics. No doubt that each one of these groups, TWP, BLM, and La Rasa have some members who are bigots and racists; however none of these groups officially self-identifies as a racial supremacy group. Would you say that any white advocacy group is categorically racist, whereas any ‘colored’ advocacy group is categorically incapable of being racist?

      1. tribeUSA

        Don–it would appear that you are making the innuendo, not me. As I stated a day or two ago in another Vanguard thread on this event in Sacramento, I am not implying that the counter-protestors had anything to do with ISIS. I just find it interesting, from a psychological standpoint, that so many of the counter-protestors were wearing black hoods pulled over their faces, and black robes, as do many members of ISIS when on the rampage. How did each of these violent groups come about to pick this garb, presumably independently? It may have something to do with the psychology of pre-meditated group violence, endorsed by both groups as a means that they justify is needed in order to attain their goals. Interestingly, the hood and robe garb also resembles that of the KKK, only colored black and not white. This is not an innuendo, but an observation. The reader is free to have his own thoughts about this observation, and to comment on them.

        1. Don Shor

          I am not implying that the counter-protestors had anything to do with ISIS.

          Right.
          synonyms: insinuation, suggestion, intimation, implication, hint, overtone, undertone, allusion.
          I repeat: innuendo.

  11. tribeUSA

    Don,

    Right, I take it that my reply should be “surely you are not insinuating, suggesting, intimating, implying, or hinting that my statements contain innuendo?” However, I am not going to make such a reply.

    I repeat: observations that I’m reporting that I haven’t seen reported elsewhere. You can make what you will of these observations. I genuinely do not know why they chose to wear the particular garb that they wore, and am wondering if anyone has any insight or educated guesses as to why this particular choice of garb was made. To a fanatical group like this that has stated they are seeking new recruits, choice of garb that they wear at public events is likely to be important–so why this particular garb? Does anyone out there have some thoughts on this; because I personally can put forward nothing but speculation on this matter at present, and do not pretend it would be anything more than that.

  12. Justice4All

    Wow, just wow. Sometimes I wonder aloud if Vanguard commentary could get worse, then I see things like this:

    You will notice that many members of one side in this fracas were in fact wearing hoods, mainly black hoods (along with black robes, reminiscent of ISIS garb).

    Pugilist, like the mainstream media, your statements are inaccurate. These were not KKK, they were members of the ‘Traditionalist Workers Party’. But not to worry, many in the media and activist community join you in your conceit in labeling them in any arbitrary way they can in order to demonize them.

    According to their charter statement, apparently the TWP is a white advocacy group, in a similar way that BLM advocates for blacks and La Rasa advocates for hispanics. No doubt that each one of these groups, TWP, BLM, and La Rasa have some members who are bigots and racists; however none of these groups officially self-identifies as a racial supremacy group. Would you say that any white advocacy group is categorically racist, whereas any ‘colored’ advocacy group is categorically incapable of being racist?

    TWP people are literally neo nazis. The are white nationalists, white supremacists, and nothing but the KKK by another name. Comparing Black Lives Matter to TWP is awful. Terrible, and shameful. Black Lives Matter is a civil rights organization. Its about declaring equality, exposing institutional racism etc. TWP is about enforcing white supremacy. TWP is based wholly on racism.

    1. tribeUSA

      From the TWP web page (source: http://www.tradworker.org/)

      “The Traditionalist Worker Party is America’s first political party created by and for working families. Our mission is defending faith, family, and folk against the politicians and oligarchs who are running America into the ground. We intend to achieve that goal by building a nationwide network of grassroots local leaders who will lead Americans toward a peaceful and prosperous future free from economic exploitation, federal tyranny, and anti-Christian degeneracy.
      We have a docket of candidates preparing to run in upcoming local races, but TradWorker is less about the candidates and campaigns than it is about building relationships of loyalty and support at the neighborhood and community level. We will help you, your family, and your town while the other parties are fighting a thousand miles from home over how to help (or bomb) people ten thousand miles from home.”

      I find nothing offensive here with the notable exception of helping to bomb people ten thousand miles from home–about the distance to the middle east from California; so I presume the reference is to the middle east–so maybe they are in alignment with Hillary Clinton and the neocon crowd who have been promoting and initiating policies of such bombing in many middle east countries, or maybe they are referring to supporting military actions against ISIS. I couldn’t agree with them more about USA politicians and oligarchs.

      Here is another statement on their same website on ethnic consciousness:
      “European-Americans are the descendants of indigenous people of Europe. They are often identified on government forms as Caucasian or ‘white’. We believe that European-American identity is under constant attack by members of American institutions such as the state, education, culture and even churches.

      The state, at various levels, institutes policies that put European-Americans at a disadvantage by guaranteeing members of other races advantages that European-Americans have to support with their own money and property.

      Educators teach children and young adults that European-American history, culture and religion are the cause of many more negative than positive on our societies.

      American popular culture offers examples of perverse behaviour that mean to destroy European-American families, leaving us unable to secure our own future as a race. There are those that use cultural Marxism and multiculturalism to attack our culture. Those attacks have no effect if we know who we are, where we came from and where we are going.

      European-Americans have much to be proud of concerning our race and the culture that grew from it. Our children should be taught the truth of their history and culture. That will make them conscious of their ethnic identity and develop in them a love for their race and a desire to protect their race.”

      So clearly they feel (rightly or wrongly) that their ethnic identity is being denigrated, that in some ways governmental policy is unfair to them. Also they clearly support positive aspects of their cultural history and traditions,  and their ethnic identity. I have no problem with people of any culture or ethnic identity supporting their cultural history and ethnic identity.

        1. tribeUSA

          Yes, I read this ADL statement (position paper?) about the group–strong on assertions,  scanty on evidence, and chock-full of innuendo. Sounds like the TWP does not like Jewish influence on american society, and so naturally the ADL will find what dirt they can on them. The ADL is a Jewish advocacy group, with tremendous political power, funding and influence–I have no doubt they can grind  ethnic advocacy groups that challenge them into the ground; they don’t need my help to do so.

          I’m not sure why so many people get their panties in a bunch about topics like this.  Heaven forbid that anyone should be critical of the ethnic group that I belong to! It must be forgiven, however,  because most people are ignorant and don’t know that the Irish are our saviours: https://www.amazon.com/How-Irish-Saved-Civilization-Irelands/dp/0385418493

          Also note my earlier post below.

           

        2. tribeUSA

          I’d like to modify my statement “Sounds like the TWP does not like Jewish influence on american society” to a more accurate statement that one or more TWP leadership members have voiced some criticism about aspects of Jewish influence on american society–and have endorsed segregation of their ethnic group from jews, as they have endorsed segregation of ethnic groups in general (see my earlier June30 6:57 post of the TWP statements below).

           

          I happen to have privileged information that it is not all about the Jews–its all about the Irish! Again, I recommend the following: https://www.amazon.com/How-Irish-Saved-Civilization-Irelands/dp/0385418493–invoke the light of truth into your soul that rises up in a crown of glory!

    2. tribeUSA

      Ah yes, I did find something that most of us can object to on their website http://www.tradworker.org/): Ethnopluralism

      “According to metapedia.org, ethnopluralists assert the principle of “right to difference”, even defending the identities of immigrants, and argue for regional ethnic or racial separatism (the plurality of ethno-identities). It is therefore multiculturalism in the sense of multiple cultures or ethnicities existing in a country, but seperated in their own enclaves, to safeguard those differences. It sharply differs to liberal multiculturalism in the sense it opposes intermarriage between different ethno-enclaves. Ethnopluralists argue that liberal multiculturalism is false, as it promotes a melting pot which leads to the disappeance of ethnicities, cultures or races through miscegenation and therefore is in fact monoculturalism. Most ethnopluralists are federalists, regionalists (localists) or communitarians believing that each ethno-enclave should be entitled to autonomy and their own laws.

      Ethnopluralism offers a solution to the failed racial, ethnic, cultural and civic nationalist ideologies that have sprung up in our post-modern society. Rather than trying to force people of different races, ethnicities, cultures, and civic orientations to live together with all of their competing differences, they should be allowed to live apart and conserve the differences that have value to them.”

      I personally strongly disagree with their segregation position here, as it leads to balkanization of a country. For example in France, the failure of many Muslim communities to assimilate into mainstream French culture, and to live in segregated enclaves, has created high social tensions and a host of problems for France–for the record, I support the melting pot, and have no problem with inter-racial marriage.

       

  13. Tia Will

    I think it is possible that there are two, or even three different albeit related issues being confounded here.

    1. Group identification – there are some groups that although they choose different names have so much in common as to be “a distinction without a difference”. This is how, after having read some of their on line materials by Googling the group’s name that I have come to the conclusion that the TWP is a white supremacist group which would be hardly differentiable from the views of the KKK or virtually any other organized white supremacist group.

    2. Tactics – for me there is a profound difference between tolerance for verbal or written dissemination of ideas without a call to specific action and a tolerance for any kind of violence or promotion there of. The former is clearly permitted under our constitution and should be respected as a right even if the ideas promulgated fall far short of any respect. The promotion or implied encouragement of violent imposition of one’s ideas should never be tolerated. The taunting, name calling, combined with the urge to “come on” fall within the latter category in my mind.

    3. Symbolism – the wearing of hoods, masks, specific colors or logos is very common and can carry with it multiple meanings. It can be simply a sign of group identification. It can be a publicity or attention getting device to promote one’s cause. It can be for recruitment purposes. In the case where it also involves hiding identifying features I think it is safe to presume that it is at least in part an attempt to maintain anonymity much as many of you choose here on the Vanguard. What I first noted when this was brought up was hoods ( much like the KKK used in the color white) and the color “black”. Hmmmm….pure speculation on my part admittedly…..but I wonder why we have to look as far away as ISIS for an explanation when there is one possible parallel behavior much closer to home ?

  14. Barack Palin

    What I first noted when this was brought up was hoods ( much like the KKK used in the color white) and the color “black”. Hmmmm….pure speculation on my part admittedly…..but I wonder why we have to look as far away as ISIS for an explanation when there is one possible parallel behavior much closer to home ?

    You do know that is was mostly the leftist fascists who were the ones wearing the hoods and masks don’t you?

    You seem to be twisting and churning in your effort to try and somewhat justify the leftist fascist’s violent actions on that day.

     

    1. Jerry Waszczuk

      Ms. Barack

      How did  come up with term “leftist fascists .”  Never heard such term . Fascism is not base on red color and red ideology .

  15. Tia Will

    BP

    You seem to be twisting and churning in your effort to try and somewhat justify the leftist fascist’s violent actions on that day.

    And I believe that is pure BS given that I have said repeatedly that I do not approve of violence done by anyone. What do you not understand about zero tolerance for violence regardless of the garb chosen by the perpetrator ?

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