Labor Leader Bill Camp Outraged at UC Davis for Treatment of Food Service Workers and Protesters

Bill Camp is an old-time, bare knuckles, labor organizer now with the Sacramento Central Labor Council. The Sacramento Central Labor Council is a council of the all of the unions in the six counties around Sacramento, including Yolo County. The workers and their unions send delegates to a council meeting each month, they select officers every three years, and those officers hire staff. Bill Camp is the chief executive officer selected by the elected board. Their job is to speak for working families, mobilize support for organizing, and mobilize political support to elect people for office who will support working families.

Last Wednesday Bill Camp, 63, was one of several protesters who entered Mrak Hall, sat down on the first floor and was arrested for failure to disperse. And in fact, the protesters including Camp, were charged with not only failure to disperse but also trespassing.

The protesters went into the building in advance to see how to enter the building. They tried to see Chancellor Vanderhoef, but access to his office was blocked, and he was not there. Camp, wearing a tie and slacks, appeared as though he was some “old professor,” to use his words. The protesters went up to the second floor because they couldn’t get up to the fifth floor where the chancellor’s office is located. So, they went to the fourth floor and were going to walk up to the fifth floor.

“What is different is everyone has text message, so we could text message all the time about where everybody was. So all of a sudden my phone gets a beep that says ‘cops in the stairwell be careful.’ You don’t even have to talk to each other, you just text message. ‘So meet you on the second floor.’ Text messaging was our secret,” said Camp.

So they all went into the conference room on the second floor and that’s where they hung out and hung out the window to rile up the crowd.

Mr. Camp felt that their approach really threw the university off in terms of what to expect and how to approach the protesters.

“The students were super, super nice to the university, nobody could complain about the students, but on the other hand they were very militant. So they were not going to get pushed around. So this was confusing to the university because they saw the militancy and they said, no this is a principle and we’re staying with the principle, we’re going to jail. But we’re not going to be jerks about it. We’re just going to go jail.”

The university let them have the conference room but they had to vacate at 5 pm. They went back inside and sat in a circle.

“But before we left we closed all the windows, put the chairs under the table, we picked up all the trash. You couldn’t ask for anybody to be more respectful. On the other hand, all of us were going to get arrested; there wasn’t any question about that.”

“It was an interesting mix, because it strategically really threw them off. They expect us to be jerks, but we’re not going to be jerks, but we’re not going to refuse not to get arrested, so they were very confused about that.”

So they were inside and could not see what was happening outside.

“I don’t know what happened, but my suspicion was that they freaked out about the students outside and they got scared. So they started arresting us guys. The reason they arrested us was to get us away from you [the protesters outside].”

The police officer came in and was sweating the whole time. He tells them it’s an unlawful assembly, they have to leave and if they don’t leave in three minutes they will get arrested. So of course, they all refuse to leave because it is their intent to get arrested. So one-by-one they arrest each of the protesters, read them their rights and asked them if they understand. It took over an hour to arrest all of the protesters including Camp—that is how methodically they did it.

“I’m sixty-three years old and it was clear I don’t move very fast, so I’m getting up and they ask me if I want a chair. I said yes. So they got me a chair. That’s about the funniest thing about it.”

They take them to the bus. They ask them if they would cooperate in the interest of good faith. Camp believes it was the city of Davis Police who took them to the bus.

As they take them to the bus, Bill Camp starts yelling “Si se puede!” “It freaked out the police officer, maybe she doesn’t know Spanish, I don’t know. But she got rattled. So she starts dragging me toward the bus. She was a UC Cop. She was mad that I was chanting. Maybe she didn’t know what I was saying. I almost fell down. I was kind of sorry that I didn’t fall, because she was in a hurry to get me onto the bus so I couldn’t chant anymore”

The bus was extremely hot, Camp felt that they had intentionally cut the AC to make it hotter. And they had the handcuffs on with their hands behind their back. They stretched the tendons in the arm and they left the handcuffs on for several hours. They didn’t take them off until about 6:00 pm. and they had put them around 1:30 or 2:00 pm. Even a week later Camp still complains about pain in his arm.

“That’s against procedure; you don’t put handcuffs on for that long. You simply put them on there to make sure I’m not going to do something bad.”

Mr. Camp was skeptical not only about the way they were treated after the arrest, but also he believes that the charges were being trumped up in order to punish and discourage the protesters.

“Normally you would simply cite and release, this is not a crime, it is simply a failure to disperse.” He believed that someone called the police and told them that they cannot put people in jail for a failure to disperse, that they therefore needed a stronger charge.

“Failure to disperse is nothing, this is a free speech thing, you don’t put people in jail for union organizing.”

What Camp argues now is that the nature of the police in this circumstance would change and that the police began to operate not as a civil authority that would protect the public from lawbreakers and moved into the realm of a more traditional role for the police in labor disputes and actively became the arm of the university as the employer who intended to break the labor dispute using heavy-handed tactics.

“At this point, the UC Davis police quit being police officers as a civil authority and became agents of the employers who were out to punish people for organizing the union. That is a classic characterization of what we call animus, animus meaning in my experience, meanness. When an employer gets real mean, about the way they treat the workers who are trying to unionize. The Davis University police officers quit being police officers and they became agents, anti-union agents of the chancellor [Chancellor Vanderhoef].”

They then took the protestors to the Davis Police Department and cited them for trespassing.

“I said ‘what the hell do you mean we were trespassing?’ We were sitting in a small circle; we weren’t blocking anybody’s egress and access. People were all doing business there in the building. We weren’t trespassing, this was public property at 2 pm in the afternoon, what the hell are you talking about, we weren’t trespassing. This is a government building, it’s 2:00 in the afternoon, we’re not trespassing.”

So why did they give them a trespassing charge—because it was the only excuse they had to put them in jail. Otherwise they really did not have any reason to put them in jail. That took a couple of hours; they took them from the Davis Police Department to the county jail in Woodland. The bus driver had turned off the air conditioning. It was a very hot day and they were extremely hot and uncomfortable on that bus. They did not get the handcuffs off until around 6:00 pm and they couldn’t call anyone until they were processed.

They processed others through and they let the protesters just sit there for quite awhile. They kept one guy in jail until 12:30 am.

“I know Ed Prieto, and Ed in my opinion is not an anti-union guy. So someone told those cops, someone told those officers in that jail to mess with us and to leave that guy in there until 12:30. That ain’t right. I think Ed needs to be asked about that because this is stupid, this is for a failure to quit. They are trying to punish people for trying to get a union contract.”

There is a principle involved here too. As Camp suggested, “We are not trying to get a contract for people making 50 bucks an hour, we are trying to get a contract for people making nine bucks an hour.”

One of the most interesting aspects of this to Camp was the tradition at UC Davis as an agricultural university that often relied on contract labor. “The most exploitative contract system in the world is the labor contract system. So this tradition of using labor contractors like Sodexho, to deny that there is a collective bargaining relation is nuts. It’s not nuts, but it should be embarrassing. It should be embarrassing that the university has adopted this old labor system that has been discredited by the entire state. When we wrote the labor law, we wrote that you can’t do that.”

He found it exciting to work with and be with the students. He found it a great group of students and they got to talk about the history of the labor movement–how it got organized before and civil rights. He found it a great experience personally and grew to have great respect for the students.

I asked Bill Camp to elaborate as to what this fight is about. Why they are fighting for fair wages and good benefits for the food service workers.

According to Camp there is a deep tradition going back to Lincoln where “everyone should have a chance to try to build a middle class life.” And the civil war was a battle as much over class as over race. The landowners in the south concentrated wealth at the expense of everyone else—not just the slaves. There were a few people super rich and everyone else was poor. Reagan came along and tried to destroy the unions, “he came up with the philosophy that Bush has, let’s make everyone super rich, if a few people become super rich, then somehow this money will trickle down, which is a lie. The only way you build a real healthy economy is if you build economic demand, and the only way you build economic demand is to give people enough money so that they go out and spend.”

“The fact of the matter is, the war that’s going on, this fight, is about you create jobs that pay enough money so that people can have a reasonable life, that’s what drives economic growth. The reason everybody in this state has a stake in the fight of these food service workers, is if we establish a principle, now the food service worker deserves to get a fair wage, that’s what this country is about, that’s what we’ve been about since the day we were founded…”

This fight is about good jobs and a healthy economy.

“You don’t build a healthy economy, without building healthy jobs. And you don’t have a healthy society without healthy jobs. If you keep everyone exploited and low wage, you create a set of values like the southern slave system.”

The fight is about taking these 500 food service workers and training them to get better jobs where they can get even better wages. We are losing out on an opportunity when we take the approach of trying to exploit the labor of these workers.

“George Bush represents a set of values to make a few people super rich and the rest of us slaves. We represent a set of values that says that everyone ought to have their work respected and they ought to have a chance at a middle class life.”

What does this mean for these particular workers?

“It means if they join a union, they will join a union of about 20,000 members statewide.” They will be members of AFSCME local 3299, “every other campus, those workers who do the same work as these workers, get paid about 12 bucks an hour, they get health care, as far as I know they work out some strategy for a pension.”

“Would they ever get paid enough? No, no one ever gets paid enough, but the fact of the matter is that they wouldn’t be vulnerable, they would have the same protections that other state workers have.”

He sees this as a way to empower the food service workers, make them part of a larger group with political power and leverage over bargaining. They would not be able to be fired indiscriminately, they would get health care, and they would gain real political power.

Some people have suggested that the way to go about this is by unionizing Sodexho workers rather than making the food service workers university employees. Camp very strongly disagrees with this.

“Sodexho is not an employer in the true sense of the word. Sodexho does not decide how much people get paid and whether they get health benefits. That’s decided by the university, so Sodexho would have a fake relationship.”

The key here is that there has to be an actual collective bargaining relationship and that requires a discussion with the entity that controls the purse strings. In this case, that is not Sodexho, who is a third party, but rather the university.

“You can’t have collective bargaining with someone who doesn’t have the power to make the decisions about wage and worker conditions. In all of the other bargaining that goes around in the country, you represent workers and I represent management, I have a pile of money and I get to decide what I do with that pile of money. You have to have a direct relationship with me, not through some third party that doesn’t control the money. It’s the university that collects the student fees and decides how much of that is going to go to food service. So it is the university who is the employer. You can’t have collective bargaining unless you have the real employer who has real power. It only can work within the confines of what the university wants to tell them.”

Vanderhoef sent a letter to the organizers, that was read last week, basically suggesting that the university has a contract with Sodexho until 2010 and that they intend to honor that contract. According to Camp, this does not matter. They have no obligation to honor a labor contract with Sodexho. “The university is the employer, so they cannot say they can disobey the law and not honor our contractual obligations to these employees.” As an entity of the State of California, the University has an obligation to bargain with their employees, and these are their employees regardless of whether or not there is a middle man. “They have admitted, though they’d never use these direct words, that these workers are their employees.”

There were complaints by people in the building about the behavior of the protests—loud banging on the windows, intimidation, and fear. I asked Mr. Camp if he saw any of that.

“I think someone gone and lied to those employees and told them this was dangerous. There wasn’t anything dangerous about that event.” You can feel if there is danger and Camp did not feel any danger or concern while he was in the building. He admitted that they made a loud racket, but that’s their free speech right. People have the right to complain about the exercise of free speech rights, but that doesn’t mean people do not have the right to express themselves. “People are angry about the exploitation and abuse of these workers.” He felt that the employees should be more upset that the university is treating fellow employees in that way.

According to an UCD employee who works in Mrak Hall and with whom I spoke some of the banging on the doors and windows was from students who wanted to get in because they had appointments and or had to get paperwork processed. They called stating that they couldn’t get in.

Camp said he never felt any fear, but he did see people acting as though they were afraid. “We told them, you have nothing to be afraid of, this is just a labor organizing demonstration. But somebody freaked them out, I guess they told them that someone would come in and hurt them. But I don’t know. Somebody freaked them out, it wasn’t us.”

I also asked him whether he thought they overreacted by locking down the building. He felt that they overreacted by the way they treated the protesters by keeping them in handcuffs as long as they did. He thought that was an overreaction.

“They could easily have left someone at the door; they were not going to get into a shoving match.” He was not outside and could not see outside. However, “everyone inside was sure super nice, I couldn’t imagine someone shoving people. So I don’t think they had to lock it down… They did and it kind of created a fortress mentality. And that’s behaving in a way that motivates us to even be more loud. I think there were other ways to do it.”

It is clear that this is a dispute that is not going to go away anytime soon. The protesters and the workers are committed to their cause, but unfortunately the university believes that they can break the will of the workers and the protesters by out-waiting them. This dispute is likely to carry into the summer. It is time that people put pressure on the administration and Chancellor Vanderhoef to put an end to this. The policies of the university are frankly an embarrassment in a liberal and progressive community such as Davis that cherishes the rights of protest and the rights of workers to organize. Serious questions must be asked about the role of the university police, the Sheriff’s Department, and Jeff Reisig’s District Attorney’s Office who made the decision to charge the protesters with trespassing as opposed to the more reasonable and moderate charge of failure to disperse. Are these law enforcement organizations acting on the behest of the university as an agent, as Bill Camp so eloquently states, in order to help crush the protest. If so, Davis and Yolo County residents must ask where the priorities of this Sheriff’s Department and District Attorney’s office lie.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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272 Comments

  1. Anonymous

    This is a bunch of Democratic babble again. Can someone get the perspective of the officers please. There needs to be a serious balance of TRUTH to this garbage.

  2. Anonymous

    This is a bunch of Democratic babble again. Can someone get the perspective of the officers please. There needs to be a serious balance of TRUTH to this garbage.

  3. Anonymous

    This is a bunch of Democratic babble again. Can someone get the perspective of the officers please. There needs to be a serious balance of TRUTH to this garbage.

  4. Anonymous

    This is a bunch of Democratic babble again. Can someone get the perspective of the officers please. There needs to be a serious balance of TRUTH to this garbage.

  5. davisite

    Inevitably,the oppressive grip of the UCD administration is loosing its grip on student idealism and passion for justice. The tide is turning.

  6. davisite

    Inevitably,the oppressive grip of the UCD administration is loosing its grip on student idealism and passion for justice. The tide is turning.

  7. davisite

    Inevitably,the oppressive grip of the UCD administration is loosing its grip on student idealism and passion for justice. The tide is turning.

  8. davisite

    Inevitably,the oppressive grip of the UCD administration is loosing its grip on student idealism and passion for justice. The tide is turning.

  9. Anonymous

    Well vincente, SOMEONE has to put a spot of reality to this. If not checked…you liberals will come up with some new radical “movement” (as you like to call them) to allow protestors to cause a scene with no consequences.

  10. Anonymous

    Well vincente, SOMEONE has to put a spot of reality to this. If not checked…you liberals will come up with some new radical “movement” (as you like to call them) to allow protestors to cause a scene with no consequences.

  11. Anonymous

    Well vincente, SOMEONE has to put a spot of reality to this. If not checked…you liberals will come up with some new radical “movement” (as you like to call them) to allow protestors to cause a scene with no consequences.

  12. Anonymous

    Well vincente, SOMEONE has to put a spot of reality to this. If not checked…you liberals will come up with some new radical “movement” (as you like to call them) to allow protestors to cause a scene with no consequences.

  13. Anonymous

    Now I’m not against protesting, but it appears to me that Mr. Camp was asking for it. If you are trying to get arrested, then what do you expect? The officer will escort you to the vehicle, in which if you start yelling something (it doesn’t matter what language) then they will get more forecful. With the risk to police officers now-a-days, they need to be in full control of the situation to insure safety. Also, if Bill can hang out of building windows (as showns in pictures), then he can’t go complaining about his tendons hurting. These obvious dual standards make it unbelievable that people actually buy into his story (and i do mean story…mostly fiction). Being a faithful Liberal myself, this is embarrassing to have him represent what I believe in.

  14. Anonymous

    Now I’m not against protesting, but it appears to me that Mr. Camp was asking for it. If you are trying to get arrested, then what do you expect? The officer will escort you to the vehicle, in which if you start yelling something (it doesn’t matter what language) then they will get more forecful. With the risk to police officers now-a-days, they need to be in full control of the situation to insure safety. Also, if Bill can hang out of building windows (as showns in pictures), then he can’t go complaining about his tendons hurting. These obvious dual standards make it unbelievable that people actually buy into his story (and i do mean story…mostly fiction). Being a faithful Liberal myself, this is embarrassing to have him represent what I believe in.

  15. Anonymous

    Now I’m not against protesting, but it appears to me that Mr. Camp was asking for it. If you are trying to get arrested, then what do you expect? The officer will escort you to the vehicle, in which if you start yelling something (it doesn’t matter what language) then they will get more forecful. With the risk to police officers now-a-days, they need to be in full control of the situation to insure safety. Also, if Bill can hang out of building windows (as showns in pictures), then he can’t go complaining about his tendons hurting. These obvious dual standards make it unbelievable that people actually buy into his story (and i do mean story…mostly fiction). Being a faithful Liberal myself, this is embarrassing to have him represent what I believe in.

  16. Anonymous

    Now I’m not against protesting, but it appears to me that Mr. Camp was asking for it. If you are trying to get arrested, then what do you expect? The officer will escort you to the vehicle, in which if you start yelling something (it doesn’t matter what language) then they will get more forecful. With the risk to police officers now-a-days, they need to be in full control of the situation to insure safety. Also, if Bill can hang out of building windows (as showns in pictures), then he can’t go complaining about his tendons hurting. These obvious dual standards make it unbelievable that people actually buy into his story (and i do mean story…mostly fiction). Being a faithful Liberal myself, this is embarrassing to have him represent what I believe in.

  17. Anonymous

    Wait, he was TRYING to get arrested. That was the point. Then he gets arrested, which is NEVER pleasant, then he complains that it wasn’t jolly enough?

    He created a situation just so he could get an outcome and complain about it. That’s ridiculous.

    Also, don’t you kind of go into food service knowing that you’re at the bottom of the totem pole?

    In my 10 year dishwashing carreer, I never expected to be treated with respect. I just shut the hell up and kept scrubbing.

    When I got sick of it, I didn’t rally the troops, I went to college.

    Not that personal anecdotes help at all, but it just seems like food service is a given “shitty profession” because it takes no skill whatsoever.

    Josh

  18. Anonymous

    Wait, he was TRYING to get arrested. That was the point. Then he gets arrested, which is NEVER pleasant, then he complains that it wasn’t jolly enough?

    He created a situation just so he could get an outcome and complain about it. That’s ridiculous.

    Also, don’t you kind of go into food service knowing that you’re at the bottom of the totem pole?

    In my 10 year dishwashing carreer, I never expected to be treated with respect. I just shut the hell up and kept scrubbing.

    When I got sick of it, I didn’t rally the troops, I went to college.

    Not that personal anecdotes help at all, but it just seems like food service is a given “shitty profession” because it takes no skill whatsoever.

    Josh

  19. Anonymous

    Wait, he was TRYING to get arrested. That was the point. Then he gets arrested, which is NEVER pleasant, then he complains that it wasn’t jolly enough?

    He created a situation just so he could get an outcome and complain about it. That’s ridiculous.

    Also, don’t you kind of go into food service knowing that you’re at the bottom of the totem pole?

    In my 10 year dishwashing carreer, I never expected to be treated with respect. I just shut the hell up and kept scrubbing.

    When I got sick of it, I didn’t rally the troops, I went to college.

    Not that personal anecdotes help at all, but it just seems like food service is a given “shitty profession” because it takes no skill whatsoever.

    Josh

  20. Anonymous

    Wait, he was TRYING to get arrested. That was the point. Then he gets arrested, which is NEVER pleasant, then he complains that it wasn’t jolly enough?

    He created a situation just so he could get an outcome and complain about it. That’s ridiculous.

    Also, don’t you kind of go into food service knowing that you’re at the bottom of the totem pole?

    In my 10 year dishwashing carreer, I never expected to be treated with respect. I just shut the hell up and kept scrubbing.

    When I got sick of it, I didn’t rally the troops, I went to college.

    Not that personal anecdotes help at all, but it just seems like food service is a given “shitty profession” because it takes no skill whatsoever.

    Josh

  21. 無名 - wu ming

    this is why you always being a videocamera to tape any protest, so that police overreaction can be documented, and their excuses about “dangerous protesters” debunked.

    as for “unlawful assembly,” it doesn’t seem to jive much with this:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    so far i have not seen any evidence that the people arrested were assembling in a non-peaceable manner, and how in the world does one “tresspass” in a public university building when it is during open hours?

    venderhoef will not break these workers. they are extremely well organized, and not in it for the rah-rahs. the fact that they have been able to pull off so many such protests, in a manner that is both disruptive but personally under control and respectful, is impressive.

    amusing that so many anonymous self-identified “liberals” would be so upset with workers trying to unionize and get decent wages. i wonder how they think this country ended up with the labor laws and wage agreements that we have today; do you guys think that asking politely and subserviently was what did it?

    if you think that workers should not organize for their rights, you’re probably not a liberal (and your posing as such is unconvincing)

  22. 無名 - wu ming

    this is why you always being a videocamera to tape any protest, so that police overreaction can be documented, and their excuses about “dangerous protesters” debunked.

    as for “unlawful assembly,” it doesn’t seem to jive much with this:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    so far i have not seen any evidence that the people arrested were assembling in a non-peaceable manner, and how in the world does one “tresspass” in a public university building when it is during open hours?

    venderhoef will not break these workers. they are extremely well organized, and not in it for the rah-rahs. the fact that they have been able to pull off so many such protests, in a manner that is both disruptive but personally under control and respectful, is impressive.

    amusing that so many anonymous self-identified “liberals” would be so upset with workers trying to unionize and get decent wages. i wonder how they think this country ended up with the labor laws and wage agreements that we have today; do you guys think that asking politely and subserviently was what did it?

    if you think that workers should not organize for their rights, you’re probably not a liberal (and your posing as such is unconvincing)

  23. 無名 - wu ming

    this is why you always being a videocamera to tape any protest, so that police overreaction can be documented, and their excuses about “dangerous protesters” debunked.

    as for “unlawful assembly,” it doesn’t seem to jive much with this:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    so far i have not seen any evidence that the people arrested were assembling in a non-peaceable manner, and how in the world does one “tresspass” in a public university building when it is during open hours?

    venderhoef will not break these workers. they are extremely well organized, and not in it for the rah-rahs. the fact that they have been able to pull off so many such protests, in a manner that is both disruptive but personally under control and respectful, is impressive.

    amusing that so many anonymous self-identified “liberals” would be so upset with workers trying to unionize and get decent wages. i wonder how they think this country ended up with the labor laws and wage agreements that we have today; do you guys think that asking politely and subserviently was what did it?

    if you think that workers should not organize for their rights, you’re probably not a liberal (and your posing as such is unconvincing)

  24. 無名 - wu ming

    this is why you always being a videocamera to tape any protest, so that police overreaction can be documented, and their excuses about “dangerous protesters” debunked.

    as for “unlawful assembly,” it doesn’t seem to jive much with this:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    so far i have not seen any evidence that the people arrested were assembling in a non-peaceable manner, and how in the world does one “tresspass” in a public university building when it is during open hours?

    venderhoef will not break these workers. they are extremely well organized, and not in it for the rah-rahs. the fact that they have been able to pull off so many such protests, in a manner that is both disruptive but personally under control and respectful, is impressive.

    amusing that so many anonymous self-identified “liberals” would be so upset with workers trying to unionize and get decent wages. i wonder how they think this country ended up with the labor laws and wage agreements that we have today; do you guys think that asking politely and subserviently was what did it?

    if you think that workers should not organize for their rights, you’re probably not a liberal (and your posing as such is unconvincing)

  25. Anonymous

    Go Josh!

    Right on all counts. Try to get arrested, then get arrested, then complain about getting arrested.

    Have an outburst, surprise the officer, then complain that they looked surprised.

    Complain about heat during hot day.

    Complain about length of time it takes to get arrested. Police give chair to sit on. Police decline to provide cool glass of water and foot massage, leading to mass additional protest. Complain Chancellor isn’t there during unannounced protest drop-in.

    Continue complains in cyber-space, where it is much more comfortable. Chair is nice, but keyboard is causing carpal tunnel syndrome. Complain about that as well.

  26. Anonymous

    Go Josh!

    Right on all counts. Try to get arrested, then get arrested, then complain about getting arrested.

    Have an outburst, surprise the officer, then complain that they looked surprised.

    Complain about heat during hot day.

    Complain about length of time it takes to get arrested. Police give chair to sit on. Police decline to provide cool glass of water and foot massage, leading to mass additional protest. Complain Chancellor isn’t there during unannounced protest drop-in.

    Continue complains in cyber-space, where it is much more comfortable. Chair is nice, but keyboard is causing carpal tunnel syndrome. Complain about that as well.

  27. Anonymous

    Go Josh!

    Right on all counts. Try to get arrested, then get arrested, then complain about getting arrested.

    Have an outburst, surprise the officer, then complain that they looked surprised.

    Complain about heat during hot day.

    Complain about length of time it takes to get arrested. Police give chair to sit on. Police decline to provide cool glass of water and foot massage, leading to mass additional protest. Complain Chancellor isn’t there during unannounced protest drop-in.

    Continue complains in cyber-space, where it is much more comfortable. Chair is nice, but keyboard is causing carpal tunnel syndrome. Complain about that as well.

  28. Anonymous

    Go Josh!

    Right on all counts. Try to get arrested, then get arrested, then complain about getting arrested.

    Have an outburst, surprise the officer, then complain that they looked surprised.

    Complain about heat during hot day.

    Complain about length of time it takes to get arrested. Police give chair to sit on. Police decline to provide cool glass of water and foot massage, leading to mass additional protest. Complain Chancellor isn’t there during unannounced protest drop-in.

    Continue complains in cyber-space, where it is much more comfortable. Chair is nice, but keyboard is causing carpal tunnel syndrome. Complain about that as well.

  29. Ken H.

    I wonder how much Bill Camp is being paid for all of this?

    I know the head of the local grocery clerks union makes $550,000 per year. That’s twice what Larry V’hoef is paid. The way guys like Camp can get rich is to convince chumps like the food-service workers to join up with their syndicates, so the union bosses take-home pay is even higher.

    When I hear these fatcat union bosses claim they’re fighting on behalf of “the working man,” I have to laugh, knowing how rich these guys all are.

  30. Ken H.

    I wonder how much Bill Camp is being paid for all of this?

    I know the head of the local grocery clerks union makes $550,000 per year. That’s twice what Larry V’hoef is paid. The way guys like Camp can get rich is to convince chumps like the food-service workers to join up with their syndicates, so the union bosses take-home pay is even higher.

    When I hear these fatcat union bosses claim they’re fighting on behalf of “the working man,” I have to laugh, knowing how rich these guys all are.

  31. Ken H.

    I wonder how much Bill Camp is being paid for all of this?

    I know the head of the local grocery clerks union makes $550,000 per year. That’s twice what Larry V’hoef is paid. The way guys like Camp can get rich is to convince chumps like the food-service workers to join up with their syndicates, so the union bosses take-home pay is even higher.

    When I hear these fatcat union bosses claim they’re fighting on behalf of “the working man,” I have to laugh, knowing how rich these guys all are.

  32. Ken H.

    I wonder how much Bill Camp is being paid for all of this?

    I know the head of the local grocery clerks union makes $550,000 per year. That’s twice what Larry V’hoef is paid. The way guys like Camp can get rich is to convince chumps like the food-service workers to join up with their syndicates, so the union bosses take-home pay is even higher.

    When I hear these fatcat union bosses claim they’re fighting on behalf of “the working man,” I have to laugh, knowing how rich these guys all are.

  33. Vincente

    I think you are missing the point. He didn’t seem to mind this, he was telling his story. What he was upset about was the plight of the workers. And sorry but that’s a very callous attitude, they should be able to get enough money to survive on and some health insurance. To say, they need to just go to school seems pretty elitist and arrogant to me.

  34. Vincente

    I think you are missing the point. He didn’t seem to mind this, he was telling his story. What he was upset about was the plight of the workers. And sorry but that’s a very callous attitude, they should be able to get enough money to survive on and some health insurance. To say, they need to just go to school seems pretty elitist and arrogant to me.

  35. Vincente

    I think you are missing the point. He didn’t seem to mind this, he was telling his story. What he was upset about was the plight of the workers. And sorry but that’s a very callous attitude, they should be able to get enough money to survive on and some health insurance. To say, they need to just go to school seems pretty elitist and arrogant to me.

  36. Vincente

    I think you are missing the point. He didn’t seem to mind this, he was telling his story. What he was upset about was the plight of the workers. And sorry but that’s a very callous attitude, they should be able to get enough money to survive on and some health insurance. To say, they need to just go to school seems pretty elitist and arrogant to me.

  37. nice one Josh

    “Certainly not going to be you. You just gripe about babble without making any sort of argument.”

    It seems everyone has said it all for me. Complain about something you asked to happen? How absurd of him.
    It seems to me that all unions do is get paid to bitch and complain on the behalf of the person paying.
    I completely agree with Josh. I believe that if you have a problem with something…you don’t go and get all of your buddies together and show how much of a child you can be, but instead show your disapproval by not doing business with them.
    You aren’t getting paid enough?…then get another job.
    You can’t get another job?…then go to school.
    You don’t like how WalMart doesn’t give medical coverage?…Don’t work there.

    There is an answer for all of you…and its not standing in front of a building with hand made signs. Unions need to get their grubby hands out of already tax paying citizens. I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.

  38. nice one Josh

    “Certainly not going to be you. You just gripe about babble without making any sort of argument.”

    It seems everyone has said it all for me. Complain about something you asked to happen? How absurd of him.
    It seems to me that all unions do is get paid to bitch and complain on the behalf of the person paying.
    I completely agree with Josh. I believe that if you have a problem with something…you don’t go and get all of your buddies together and show how much of a child you can be, but instead show your disapproval by not doing business with them.
    You aren’t getting paid enough?…then get another job.
    You can’t get another job?…then go to school.
    You don’t like how WalMart doesn’t give medical coverage?…Don’t work there.

    There is an answer for all of you…and its not standing in front of a building with hand made signs. Unions need to get their grubby hands out of already tax paying citizens. I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.

  39. nice one Josh

    “Certainly not going to be you. You just gripe about babble without making any sort of argument.”

    It seems everyone has said it all for me. Complain about something you asked to happen? How absurd of him.
    It seems to me that all unions do is get paid to bitch and complain on the behalf of the person paying.
    I completely agree with Josh. I believe that if you have a problem with something…you don’t go and get all of your buddies together and show how much of a child you can be, but instead show your disapproval by not doing business with them.
    You aren’t getting paid enough?…then get another job.
    You can’t get another job?…then go to school.
    You don’t like how WalMart doesn’t give medical coverage?…Don’t work there.

    There is an answer for all of you…and its not standing in front of a building with hand made signs. Unions need to get their grubby hands out of already tax paying citizens. I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.

  40. nice one Josh

    “Certainly not going to be you. You just gripe about babble without making any sort of argument.”

    It seems everyone has said it all for me. Complain about something you asked to happen? How absurd of him.
    It seems to me that all unions do is get paid to bitch and complain on the behalf of the person paying.
    I completely agree with Josh. I believe that if you have a problem with something…you don’t go and get all of your buddies together and show how much of a child you can be, but instead show your disapproval by not doing business with them.
    You aren’t getting paid enough?…then get another job.
    You can’t get another job?…then go to school.
    You don’t like how WalMart doesn’t give medical coverage?…Don’t work there.

    There is an answer for all of you…and its not standing in front of a building with hand made signs. Unions need to get their grubby hands out of already tax paying citizens. I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.

  41. Anonymous

    ..keep it comin’. There is no better
    way to promote the progressive agenda than the public exposure of the “thought process”(quotation marks required)of these “law and order” posters..

  42. Anonymous

    ..keep it comin’. There is no better
    way to promote the progressive agenda than the public exposure of the “thought process”(quotation marks required)of these “law and order” posters..

  43. Anonymous

    ..keep it comin’. There is no better
    way to promote the progressive agenda than the public exposure of the “thought process”(quotation marks required)of these “law and order” posters..

  44. Anonymous

    ..keep it comin’. There is no better
    way to promote the progressive agenda than the public exposure of the “thought process”(quotation marks required)of these “law and order” posters..

  45. Josh

    How is suggesting going to school elitist or arrogant?

    Sorry for the flurry of personal anecdotes, but this one fits:

    I had no financial support, I was addicted to meth, drank hopelessly, lived in a car and never graduated from high school.

    I said, F this, I’m going to junior college because washing dishes in a state building cafeteria is not where I should be.

    I am not particularly smart, nor hard working. I was just sick enough of my situation to get out of it and not rely on others to help me.

    That is not elitist. This is the American dream.

    For you to tell me I’m “posing” as a liberal is insane.

    I have experiences and thoughts that have nothing to do with my political party. I chose to be a liberal because most of my ideals match with that party.

    As time goes on, I realize that many in my “party” are blinded by their own ideals.

    On paper, they are liberal. In reality, they are sheltered and ignorant.

  46. Josh

    How is suggesting going to school elitist or arrogant?

    Sorry for the flurry of personal anecdotes, but this one fits:

    I had no financial support, I was addicted to meth, drank hopelessly, lived in a car and never graduated from high school.

    I said, F this, I’m going to junior college because washing dishes in a state building cafeteria is not where I should be.

    I am not particularly smart, nor hard working. I was just sick enough of my situation to get out of it and not rely on others to help me.

    That is not elitist. This is the American dream.

    For you to tell me I’m “posing” as a liberal is insane.

    I have experiences and thoughts that have nothing to do with my political party. I chose to be a liberal because most of my ideals match with that party.

    As time goes on, I realize that many in my “party” are blinded by their own ideals.

    On paper, they are liberal. In reality, they are sheltered and ignorant.

  47. Josh

    How is suggesting going to school elitist or arrogant?

    Sorry for the flurry of personal anecdotes, but this one fits:

    I had no financial support, I was addicted to meth, drank hopelessly, lived in a car and never graduated from high school.

    I said, F this, I’m going to junior college because washing dishes in a state building cafeteria is not where I should be.

    I am not particularly smart, nor hard working. I was just sick enough of my situation to get out of it and not rely on others to help me.

    That is not elitist. This is the American dream.

    For you to tell me I’m “posing” as a liberal is insane.

    I have experiences and thoughts that have nothing to do with my political party. I chose to be a liberal because most of my ideals match with that party.

    As time goes on, I realize that many in my “party” are blinded by their own ideals.

    On paper, they are liberal. In reality, they are sheltered and ignorant.

  48. Josh

    How is suggesting going to school elitist or arrogant?

    Sorry for the flurry of personal anecdotes, but this one fits:

    I had no financial support, I was addicted to meth, drank hopelessly, lived in a car and never graduated from high school.

    I said, F this, I’m going to junior college because washing dishes in a state building cafeteria is not where I should be.

    I am not particularly smart, nor hard working. I was just sick enough of my situation to get out of it and not rely on others to help me.

    That is not elitist. This is the American dream.

    For you to tell me I’m “posing” as a liberal is insane.

    I have experiences and thoughts that have nothing to do with my political party. I chose to be a liberal because most of my ideals match with that party.

    As time goes on, I realize that many in my “party” are blinded by their own ideals.

    On paper, they are liberal. In reality, they are sheltered and ignorant.

  49. Murky Thoughts

    For fair negotiations, wouldn’t it make more sense for the workers who are not carrying out an education–or research-specific activity to be employees of some enterprise other than the university? It seems to me that the right to unionize is a right to veto the business of the employer, which unions will tend not exploit to the extent they have about as much to lose as their employers, and which they will tend to exercise rationally to the extent they understand the business of their employer. If “Sweep Inc” sweepers are willing to go to the brink of sinking the venture that provides them employment, to me that suggests an informed, rational and good faith strike that’s good for the community or society as whole–because sweepers can sweep elsewhere, society will certainly get it’s sweeping done without Sweep Inc, and finally sweeper union negotiators are liable to understand the business and local economics of sweeping. But for sweepers at Bechtel or Boeing or Boston University, that’s not so. Why should Boeing stand or fall on the basis of whether its sweepers are satisfied? Why should we expect rationality or good faith in negotiations with an international supplier of airplanes by a local or domestic union of sweepers, for whom equally challenging, remunerative and satisfying work ought not to be so hard to find elsewhere, and so–relative to the more specialized workers and to the economy and the society at large–risk little in pushing Boeing to the brink of bankruptcy. Of course, the feds hold out a safety net for both parties–free loans and bankruptcy protection for Boeing, welfare and unemployment for the sweepers. And like Boeing UC is critical to the defense industry too. So it gets complicated. But ergo simpler would be better. Let them be employed by and veto rights over a support services company, not a university. A university is not Mother Russia and need not be even a society in microscosm. It’s for education and research.

  50. Murky Thoughts

    For fair negotiations, wouldn’t it make more sense for the workers who are not carrying out an education–or research-specific activity to be employees of some enterprise other than the university? It seems to me that the right to unionize is a right to veto the business of the employer, which unions will tend not exploit to the extent they have about as much to lose as their employers, and which they will tend to exercise rationally to the extent they understand the business of their employer. If “Sweep Inc” sweepers are willing to go to the brink of sinking the venture that provides them employment, to me that suggests an informed, rational and good faith strike that’s good for the community or society as whole–because sweepers can sweep elsewhere, society will certainly get it’s sweeping done without Sweep Inc, and finally sweeper union negotiators are liable to understand the business and local economics of sweeping. But for sweepers at Bechtel or Boeing or Boston University, that’s not so. Why should Boeing stand or fall on the basis of whether its sweepers are satisfied? Why should we expect rationality or good faith in negotiations with an international supplier of airplanes by a local or domestic union of sweepers, for whom equally challenging, remunerative and satisfying work ought not to be so hard to find elsewhere, and so–relative to the more specialized workers and to the economy and the society at large–risk little in pushing Boeing to the brink of bankruptcy. Of course, the feds hold out a safety net for both parties–free loans and bankruptcy protection for Boeing, welfare and unemployment for the sweepers. And like Boeing UC is critical to the defense industry too. So it gets complicated. But ergo simpler would be better. Let them be employed by and veto rights over a support services company, not a university. A university is not Mother Russia and need not be even a society in microscosm. It’s for education and research.

  51. Murky Thoughts

    For fair negotiations, wouldn’t it make more sense for the workers who are not carrying out an education–or research-specific activity to be employees of some enterprise other than the university? It seems to me that the right to unionize is a right to veto the business of the employer, which unions will tend not exploit to the extent they have about as much to lose as their employers, and which they will tend to exercise rationally to the extent they understand the business of their employer. If “Sweep Inc” sweepers are willing to go to the brink of sinking the venture that provides them employment, to me that suggests an informed, rational and good faith strike that’s good for the community or society as whole–because sweepers can sweep elsewhere, society will certainly get it’s sweeping done without Sweep Inc, and finally sweeper union negotiators are liable to understand the business and local economics of sweeping. But for sweepers at Bechtel or Boeing or Boston University, that’s not so. Why should Boeing stand or fall on the basis of whether its sweepers are satisfied? Why should we expect rationality or good faith in negotiations with an international supplier of airplanes by a local or domestic union of sweepers, for whom equally challenging, remunerative and satisfying work ought not to be so hard to find elsewhere, and so–relative to the more specialized workers and to the economy and the society at large–risk little in pushing Boeing to the brink of bankruptcy. Of course, the feds hold out a safety net for both parties–free loans and bankruptcy protection for Boeing, welfare and unemployment for the sweepers. And like Boeing UC is critical to the defense industry too. So it gets complicated. But ergo simpler would be better. Let them be employed by and veto rights over a support services company, not a university. A university is not Mother Russia and need not be even a society in microscosm. It’s for education and research.

  52. Murky Thoughts

    For fair negotiations, wouldn’t it make more sense for the workers who are not carrying out an education–or research-specific activity to be employees of some enterprise other than the university? It seems to me that the right to unionize is a right to veto the business of the employer, which unions will tend not exploit to the extent they have about as much to lose as their employers, and which they will tend to exercise rationally to the extent they understand the business of their employer. If “Sweep Inc” sweepers are willing to go to the brink of sinking the venture that provides them employment, to me that suggests an informed, rational and good faith strike that’s good for the community or society as whole–because sweepers can sweep elsewhere, society will certainly get it’s sweeping done without Sweep Inc, and finally sweeper union negotiators are liable to understand the business and local economics of sweeping. But for sweepers at Bechtel or Boeing or Boston University, that’s not so. Why should Boeing stand or fall on the basis of whether its sweepers are satisfied? Why should we expect rationality or good faith in negotiations with an international supplier of airplanes by a local or domestic union of sweepers, for whom equally challenging, remunerative and satisfying work ought not to be so hard to find elsewhere, and so–relative to the more specialized workers and to the economy and the society at large–risk little in pushing Boeing to the brink of bankruptcy. Of course, the feds hold out a safety net for both parties–free loans and bankruptcy protection for Boeing, welfare and unemployment for the sweepers. And like Boeing UC is critical to the defense industry too. So it gets complicated. But ergo simpler would be better. Let them be employed by and veto rights over a support services company, not a university. A university is not Mother Russia and need not be even a society in microscosm. It’s for education and research.

  53. Richard

    Neither the city nor the university have historically been very hospitable to labor unions, with the exceptions of the police and fire fighters, of course, for obvious reasons, especially unions that represent low wage workers.

    This is just another example of it. I’ve always wondered whether Davis and the university serve as some kind of sanctuary within California for people don’t like unions and social activism, and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.

    –Richard Estes

  54. Richard

    Neither the city nor the university have historically been very hospitable to labor unions, with the exceptions of the police and fire fighters, of course, for obvious reasons, especially unions that represent low wage workers.

    This is just another example of it. I’ve always wondered whether Davis and the university serve as some kind of sanctuary within California for people don’t like unions and social activism, and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.

    –Richard Estes

  55. Richard

    Neither the city nor the university have historically been very hospitable to labor unions, with the exceptions of the police and fire fighters, of course, for obvious reasons, especially unions that represent low wage workers.

    This is just another example of it. I’ve always wondered whether Davis and the university serve as some kind of sanctuary within California for people don’t like unions and social activism, and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.

    –Richard Estes

  56. Richard

    Neither the city nor the university have historically been very hospitable to labor unions, with the exceptions of the police and fire fighters, of course, for obvious reasons, especially unions that represent low wage workers.

    This is just another example of it. I’ve always wondered whether Davis and the university serve as some kind of sanctuary within California for people don’t like unions and social activism, and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.

    –Richard Estes

  57. Don Shor

    Some people have suggested that the way to go about this is by unionizing Sodexho workers rather than making the food service workers university employees. Camp very strongly disagrees with this.

    “Sodexho is not an employer in the true sense of the word. Sodexho does not decide how much people get paid and whether they get health benefits. That’s decided by the university, so Sodexho would have a fake relationship.”

    The key here is that there has to be an actual collective bargaining relationship and that requires a discussion with the entity that controls the purse strings. In this case, that is not Sodexho, who is a third party, but rather the university.

    “You can’t have collective bargaining with someone who doesn’t have the power to make the decisions about wage and worker conditions. In all of the other bargaining that goes around in the country, you represent workers and I represent management, I have a pile of money and I get to decide what I do with that pile of money. You have to have a direct relationship with me, not through some third party that doesn’t control the money. It’s the university that collects the student fees and decides how much of that is going to go to food service. So it is the university who is the employer. You can’t have collective bargaining unless you have the real employer who has real power. It only can work within the confines of what the university wants to tell them.”

    Vanderhoef sent a letter to the organizers, that was read last week, basically suggesting that the university has a contract with Sodexho until 2010 and that they intend to honor that contract. According to Camp, this does not matter. They have no obligation to honor a labor contract with Sodexho. “The university is the employer, so they cannot say they can disobey the law and not honor our contractual obligations to these employees.” As an entity of the State of California, the University has an obligation to bargain with their employees, and these are their employees regardless of whether or not there is a middle man. “They have admitted, though they’d never use these direct words, that these workers are their employees.”

    This doesn’t make sense. Sodexho is the employer. The University contracts with Sodexho. I assume Sodexho determines what they pay their employees, what benefits they receive, and so on. If the employees unionize and cost Sodexho more, the company can try to increase its contract with UC Davis. If they don’t do that, they can make up the costs elsewhere, or have a lower profit margin.

    The University probably does have some obligation to honor a contract with Sodexho, although lawyers on this blog could answer that. Regardless, there would probably be some cost to the University from breaking the contract.

    In the short run the simplest thing for the employees to do is try to form a union at Sodexho, allied with one of the local food service unions. It seems that the resistance to that approach is from a perception that they will get more money and better benefits from the University. But what is preventing them from unionizing at Sodexho and demanding the same pay and benefits there?

    Interesting interview. I agree that it would be useful to get a balanced input from the police or others who were there, but I’d be surprised if anyone official would talk on record.

  58. Don Shor

    Some people have suggested that the way to go about this is by unionizing Sodexho workers rather than making the food service workers university employees. Camp very strongly disagrees with this.

    “Sodexho is not an employer in the true sense of the word. Sodexho does not decide how much people get paid and whether they get health benefits. That’s decided by the university, so Sodexho would have a fake relationship.”

    The key here is that there has to be an actual collective bargaining relationship and that requires a discussion with the entity that controls the purse strings. In this case, that is not Sodexho, who is a third party, but rather the university.

    “You can’t have collective bargaining with someone who doesn’t have the power to make the decisions about wage and worker conditions. In all of the other bargaining that goes around in the country, you represent workers and I represent management, I have a pile of money and I get to decide what I do with that pile of money. You have to have a direct relationship with me, not through some third party that doesn’t control the money. It’s the university that collects the student fees and decides how much of that is going to go to food service. So it is the university who is the employer. You can’t have collective bargaining unless you have the real employer who has real power. It only can work within the confines of what the university wants to tell them.”

    Vanderhoef sent a letter to the organizers, that was read last week, basically suggesting that the university has a contract with Sodexho until 2010 and that they intend to honor that contract. According to Camp, this does not matter. They have no obligation to honor a labor contract with Sodexho. “The university is the employer, so they cannot say they can disobey the law and not honor our contractual obligations to these employees.” As an entity of the State of California, the University has an obligation to bargain with their employees, and these are their employees regardless of whether or not there is a middle man. “They have admitted, though they’d never use these direct words, that these workers are their employees.”

    This doesn’t make sense. Sodexho is the employer. The University contracts with Sodexho. I assume Sodexho determines what they pay their employees, what benefits they receive, and so on. If the employees unionize and cost Sodexho more, the company can try to increase its contract with UC Davis. If they don’t do that, they can make up the costs elsewhere, or have a lower profit margin.

    The University probably does have some obligation to honor a contract with Sodexho, although lawyers on this blog could answer that. Regardless, there would probably be some cost to the University from breaking the contract.

    In the short run the simplest thing for the employees to do is try to form a union at Sodexho, allied with one of the local food service unions. It seems that the resistance to that approach is from a perception that they will get more money and better benefits from the University. But what is preventing them from unionizing at Sodexho and demanding the same pay and benefits there?

    Interesting interview. I agree that it would be useful to get a balanced input from the police or others who were there, but I’d be surprised if anyone official would talk on record.

  59. Don Shor

    Some people have suggested that the way to go about this is by unionizing Sodexho workers rather than making the food service workers university employees. Camp very strongly disagrees with this.

    “Sodexho is not an employer in the true sense of the word. Sodexho does not decide how much people get paid and whether they get health benefits. That’s decided by the university, so Sodexho would have a fake relationship.”

    The key here is that there has to be an actual collective bargaining relationship and that requires a discussion with the entity that controls the purse strings. In this case, that is not Sodexho, who is a third party, but rather the university.

    “You can’t have collective bargaining with someone who doesn’t have the power to make the decisions about wage and worker conditions. In all of the other bargaining that goes around in the country, you represent workers and I represent management, I have a pile of money and I get to decide what I do with that pile of money. You have to have a direct relationship with me, not through some third party that doesn’t control the money. It’s the university that collects the student fees and decides how much of that is going to go to food service. So it is the university who is the employer. You can’t have collective bargaining unless you have the real employer who has real power. It only can work within the confines of what the university wants to tell them.”

    Vanderhoef sent a letter to the organizers, that was read last week, basically suggesting that the university has a contract with Sodexho until 2010 and that they intend to honor that contract. According to Camp, this does not matter. They have no obligation to honor a labor contract with Sodexho. “The university is the employer, so they cannot say they can disobey the law and not honor our contractual obligations to these employees.” As an entity of the State of California, the University has an obligation to bargain with their employees, and these are their employees regardless of whether or not there is a middle man. “They have admitted, though they’d never use these direct words, that these workers are their employees.”

    This doesn’t make sense. Sodexho is the employer. The University contracts with Sodexho. I assume Sodexho determines what they pay their employees, what benefits they receive, and so on. If the employees unionize and cost Sodexho more, the company can try to increase its contract with UC Davis. If they don’t do that, they can make up the costs elsewhere, or have a lower profit margin.

    The University probably does have some obligation to honor a contract with Sodexho, although lawyers on this blog could answer that. Regardless, there would probably be some cost to the University from breaking the contract.

    In the short run the simplest thing for the employees to do is try to form a union at Sodexho, allied with one of the local food service unions. It seems that the resistance to that approach is from a perception that they will get more money and better benefits from the University. But what is preventing them from unionizing at Sodexho and demanding the same pay and benefits there?

    Interesting interview. I agree that it would be useful to get a balanced input from the police or others who were there, but I’d be surprised if anyone official would talk on record.

  60. Don Shor

    Some people have suggested that the way to go about this is by unionizing Sodexho workers rather than making the food service workers university employees. Camp very strongly disagrees with this.

    “Sodexho is not an employer in the true sense of the word. Sodexho does not decide how much people get paid and whether they get health benefits. That’s decided by the university, so Sodexho would have a fake relationship.”

    The key here is that there has to be an actual collective bargaining relationship and that requires a discussion with the entity that controls the purse strings. In this case, that is not Sodexho, who is a third party, but rather the university.

    “You can’t have collective bargaining with someone who doesn’t have the power to make the decisions about wage and worker conditions. In all of the other bargaining that goes around in the country, you represent workers and I represent management, I have a pile of money and I get to decide what I do with that pile of money. You have to have a direct relationship with me, not through some third party that doesn’t control the money. It’s the university that collects the student fees and decides how much of that is going to go to food service. So it is the university who is the employer. You can’t have collective bargaining unless you have the real employer who has real power. It only can work within the confines of what the university wants to tell them.”

    Vanderhoef sent a letter to the organizers, that was read last week, basically suggesting that the university has a contract with Sodexho until 2010 and that they intend to honor that contract. According to Camp, this does not matter. They have no obligation to honor a labor contract with Sodexho. “The university is the employer, so they cannot say they can disobey the law and not honor our contractual obligations to these employees.” As an entity of the State of California, the University has an obligation to bargain with their employees, and these are their employees regardless of whether or not there is a middle man. “They have admitted, though they’d never use these direct words, that these workers are their employees.”

    This doesn’t make sense. Sodexho is the employer. The University contracts with Sodexho. I assume Sodexho determines what they pay their employees, what benefits they receive, and so on. If the employees unionize and cost Sodexho more, the company can try to increase its contract with UC Davis. If they don’t do that, they can make up the costs elsewhere, or have a lower profit margin.

    The University probably does have some obligation to honor a contract with Sodexho, although lawyers on this blog could answer that. Regardless, there would probably be some cost to the University from breaking the contract.

    In the short run the simplest thing for the employees to do is try to form a union at Sodexho, allied with one of the local food service unions. It seems that the resistance to that approach is from a perception that they will get more money and better benefits from the University. But what is preventing them from unionizing at Sodexho and demanding the same pay and benefits there?

    Interesting interview. I agree that it would be useful to get a balanced input from the police or others who were there, but I’d be surprised if anyone official would talk on record.

  61. Anonymous

    “…and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.”

    The stress caused is by the unorthodox and rude protestors. A poorly planned protest gives no right to them be act out as they did.
    If you want to know why Davis is so resistant to unions, then you should have been there with me to watch how all those protestors acted. Such a display of “union power” was an extremely poor one. Poorly executed, and poorly reported back to the rest of the people who could not attend. Its biased articles liked this one that has liberals thinking they did a good job, when in fact they mostly made a fool of themselves.

  62. Anonymous

    “…and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.”

    The stress caused is by the unorthodox and rude protestors. A poorly planned protest gives no right to them be act out as they did.
    If you want to know why Davis is so resistant to unions, then you should have been there with me to watch how all those protestors acted. Such a display of “union power” was an extremely poor one. Poorly executed, and poorly reported back to the rest of the people who could not attend. Its biased articles liked this one that has liberals thinking they did a good job, when in fact they mostly made a fool of themselves.

  63. Anonymous

    “…and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.”

    The stress caused is by the unorthodox and rude protestors. A poorly planned protest gives no right to them be act out as they did.
    If you want to know why Davis is so resistant to unions, then you should have been there with me to watch how all those protestors acted. Such a display of “union power” was an extremely poor one. Poorly executed, and poorly reported back to the rest of the people who could not attend. Its biased articles liked this one that has liberals thinking they did a good job, when in fact they mostly made a fool of themselves.

  64. Anonymous

    “…and experience anxiety and panic attacks whenever they intrude into their otherwise tranquil middle and upper middle class life.”

    The stress caused is by the unorthodox and rude protestors. A poorly planned protest gives no right to them be act out as they did.
    If you want to know why Davis is so resistant to unions, then you should have been there with me to watch how all those protestors acted. Such a display of “union power” was an extremely poor one. Poorly executed, and poorly reported back to the rest of the people who could not attend. Its biased articles liked this one that has liberals thinking they did a good job, when in fact they mostly made a fool of themselves.

  65. Karen Maxson, Sacramento, California

    I was a labor organizer for two unions in the University of California, spanning a period of about 11 years. The City of Davis is a company town and the University of California is the company. The wages are depressed because there is no work in Yolo County apart from small businesses and agriculture. Most jobs are minimum wage. Davis being the “bedroom community” to Sacramento forces residents to travel to Sacramento for decent paying jobs with benefits. UCD monopolizes the labor market and keeps the wages repressed. If they can privatize or hire contract labor over unionized labor they will. So ultimately the Chancellor and UC Board of Regents knows what they are doing and why they are doing it. It’s referred to as the “bottomline” and they want to keep the wages there. In all labor negotiations, the struggle is enduring, because Ivy League is cheap. As for the duration of time that Bill was sitting in jail–and the processing of these so called “criminals”, I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions. Labor organizers are not criminals. Unions are workers only buffer many times from abject poverty. In solidarity and support for the UCD food service workers! Keep going. Thank you Vanguard y familia.

  66. Karen Maxson, Sacramento, Cali

    I was a labor organizer for two unions in the University of California, spanning a period of about 11 years. The City of Davis is a company town and the University of California is the company. The wages are depressed because there is no work in Yolo County apart from small businesses and agriculture. Most jobs are minimum wage. Davis being the “bedroom community” to Sacramento forces residents to travel to Sacramento for decent paying jobs with benefits. UCD monopolizes the labor market and keeps the wages repressed. If they can privatize or hire contract labor over unionized labor they will. So ultimately the Chancellor and UC Board of Regents knows what they are doing and why they are doing it. It’s referred to as the “bottomline” and they want to keep the wages there. In all labor negotiations, the struggle is enduring, because Ivy League is cheap. As for the duration of time that Bill was sitting in jail–and the processing of these so called “criminals”, I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions. Labor organizers are not criminals. Unions are workers only buffer many times from abject poverty. In solidarity and support for the UCD food service workers! Keep going. Thank you Vanguard y familia.

  67. Karen Maxson, Sacramento, Cali

    I was a labor organizer for two unions in the University of California, spanning a period of about 11 years. The City of Davis is a company town and the University of California is the company. The wages are depressed because there is no work in Yolo County apart from small businesses and agriculture. Most jobs are minimum wage. Davis being the “bedroom community” to Sacramento forces residents to travel to Sacramento for decent paying jobs with benefits. UCD monopolizes the labor market and keeps the wages repressed. If they can privatize or hire contract labor over unionized labor they will. So ultimately the Chancellor and UC Board of Regents knows what they are doing and why they are doing it. It’s referred to as the “bottomline” and they want to keep the wages there. In all labor negotiations, the struggle is enduring, because Ivy League is cheap. As for the duration of time that Bill was sitting in jail–and the processing of these so called “criminals”, I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions. Labor organizers are not criminals. Unions are workers only buffer many times from abject poverty. In solidarity and support for the UCD food service workers! Keep going. Thank you Vanguard y familia.

  68. Karen Maxson, Sacramento, Cali

    I was a labor organizer for two unions in the University of California, spanning a period of about 11 years. The City of Davis is a company town and the University of California is the company. The wages are depressed because there is no work in Yolo County apart from small businesses and agriculture. Most jobs are minimum wage. Davis being the “bedroom community” to Sacramento forces residents to travel to Sacramento for decent paying jobs with benefits. UCD monopolizes the labor market and keeps the wages repressed. If they can privatize or hire contract labor over unionized labor they will. So ultimately the Chancellor and UC Board of Regents knows what they are doing and why they are doing it. It’s referred to as the “bottomline” and they want to keep the wages there. In all labor negotiations, the struggle is enduring, because Ivy League is cheap. As for the duration of time that Bill was sitting in jail–and the processing of these so called “criminals”, I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions. Labor organizers are not criminals. Unions are workers only buffer many times from abject poverty. In solidarity and support for the UCD food service workers! Keep going. Thank you Vanguard y familia.

  69. Anonymous

    “I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions.”

    Just because Bill is part of a union doesn’t mean that the police are trying to bust the union specifically. Breaking the law is breaking the law no matter how small or large the crime is. Bill….broke the law and decided to not obey authority. What’s more, IT WAS HIS CHOICE!! I’m not sure why you people are complaining about it when it was what he was TRYING to do. It’s people like Bill that give unions a bad name. Companies don’t want “radical” people with false beliefs yelling with sticks in their hand. They want a PRACTICAL answer to current problems. Proving you are a left wing nut is not helping anyone. I mean…what is Bill helping by sitting in jail next to “bubba”.

  70. Anonymous

    “I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions.”

    Just because Bill is part of a union doesn’t mean that the police are trying to bust the union specifically. Breaking the law is breaking the law no matter how small or large the crime is. Bill….broke the law and decided to not obey authority. What’s more, IT WAS HIS CHOICE!! I’m not sure why you people are complaining about it when it was what he was TRYING to do. It’s people like Bill that give unions a bad name. Companies don’t want “radical” people with false beliefs yelling with sticks in their hand. They want a PRACTICAL answer to current problems. Proving you are a left wing nut is not helping anyone. I mean…what is Bill helping by sitting in jail next to “bubba”.

  71. Anonymous

    “I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions.”

    Just because Bill is part of a union doesn’t mean that the police are trying to bust the union specifically. Breaking the law is breaking the law no matter how small or large the crime is. Bill….broke the law and decided to not obey authority. What’s more, IT WAS HIS CHOICE!! I’m not sure why you people are complaining about it when it was what he was TRYING to do. It’s people like Bill that give unions a bad name. Companies don’t want “radical” people with false beliefs yelling with sticks in their hand. They want a PRACTICAL answer to current problems. Proving you are a left wing nut is not helping anyone. I mean…what is Bill helping by sitting in jail next to “bubba”.

  72. Anonymous

    “I keep reminding law enforcement to bust crime not unions.”

    Just because Bill is part of a union doesn’t mean that the police are trying to bust the union specifically. Breaking the law is breaking the law no matter how small or large the crime is. Bill….broke the law and decided to not obey authority. What’s more, IT WAS HIS CHOICE!! I’m not sure why you people are complaining about it when it was what he was TRYING to do. It’s people like Bill that give unions a bad name. Companies don’t want “radical” people with false beliefs yelling with sticks in their hand. They want a PRACTICAL answer to current problems. Proving you are a left wing nut is not helping anyone. I mean…what is Bill helping by sitting in jail next to “bubba”.

  73. The Voice of Reason

    I completely agree.
    If anyone feels his arrest is unjust, then feel free to go post his bail. Personally, I’m leaving him in there.

  74. The Voice of Reason

    I completely agree.
    If anyone feels his arrest is unjust, then feel free to go post his bail. Personally, I’m leaving him in there.

  75. The Voice of Reason

    I completely agree.
    If anyone feels his arrest is unjust, then feel free to go post his bail. Personally, I’m leaving him in there.

  76. The Voice of Reason

    I completely agree.
    If anyone feels his arrest is unjust, then feel free to go post his bail. Personally, I’m leaving him in there.

  77. Anonymous

    Nonsense–he specifically said on multiple occasions that he wanted to be arrested and that they would not leave without being arrested. The complaints have to do with their treatment after the arrest. Do not confuse the two issues. He fully intended to be arrested and was not complaining about that.

  78. Anonymous

    Nonsense–he specifically said on multiple occasions that he wanted to be arrested and that they would not leave without being arrested. The complaints have to do with their treatment after the arrest. Do not confuse the two issues. He fully intended to be arrested and was not complaining about that.

  79. Anonymous

    Nonsense–he specifically said on multiple occasions that he wanted to be arrested and that they would not leave without being arrested. The complaints have to do with their treatment after the arrest. Do not confuse the two issues. He fully intended to be arrested and was not complaining about that.

  80. Anonymous

    Nonsense–he specifically said on multiple occasions that he wanted to be arrested and that they would not leave without being arrested. The complaints have to do with their treatment after the arrest. Do not confuse the two issues. He fully intended to be arrested and was not complaining about that.

  81. Anonymous

    Bill debating with police the reason he was arrested very well qualifies as “Complaining of the arrest”. In what way is that NOT complaining about his arrest, when it is the very REASON of his arrest? Your pickiness over a rather blatant action does not speak well of you.

  82. Anonymous

    Bill debating with police the reason he was arrested very well qualifies as “Complaining of the arrest”. In what way is that NOT complaining about his arrest, when it is the very REASON of his arrest? Your pickiness over a rather blatant action does not speak well of you.

  83. Anonymous

    Bill debating with police the reason he was arrested very well qualifies as “Complaining of the arrest”. In what way is that NOT complaining about his arrest, when it is the very REASON of his arrest? Your pickiness over a rather blatant action does not speak well of you.

  84. Anonymous

    Bill debating with police the reason he was arrested very well qualifies as “Complaining of the arrest”. In what way is that NOT complaining about his arrest, when it is the very REASON of his arrest? Your pickiness over a rather blatant action does not speak well of you.

  85. davisite

    “…I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.”

    I heard this argument,while out campaigning against Measure K, from those who supported the “race to the bottom” wage philosophy of Target and Wal-Mart. “If they don’t like it, they should go get another job”,these young people suggested. They were recent Davis High School graduates and, when questioned, were oblivious to the history of labor struggles in the US.

  86. davisite

    “…I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.”

    I heard this argument,while out campaigning against Measure K, from those who supported the “race to the bottom” wage philosophy of Target and Wal-Mart. “If they don’t like it, they should go get another job”,these young people suggested. They were recent Davis High School graduates and, when questioned, were oblivious to the history of labor struggles in the US.

  87. davisite

    “…I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.”

    I heard this argument,while out campaigning against Measure K, from those who supported the “race to the bottom” wage philosophy of Target and Wal-Mart. “If they don’t like it, they should go get another job”,these young people suggested. They were recent Davis High School graduates and, when questioned, were oblivious to the history of labor struggles in the US.

  88. davisite

    “…I believe Americans are perfectly capable to complain on their own if they really want to…they don’t need to pay a union to do it for them.”

    I heard this argument,while out campaigning against Measure K, from those who supported the “race to the bottom” wage philosophy of Target and Wal-Mart. “If they don’t like it, they should go get another job”,these young people suggested. They were recent Davis High School graduates and, when questioned, were oblivious to the history of labor struggles in the US.

  89. Anonymous

    You are a bunch of spammers..

    We dont care about your militant unionism.
    If you dont like your job, get another one!

    People who block roads run the risk of being run over.. like that idiot protester a few years back who tried to stop a train and lost his legs !

    ‘The people’s…’ BS ! Go to hell you commie dogs.

    You dont speak for the people of Davis any more than Rush Limbaugh does! LOL

  90. Richard

    hope the various reiterations of “anonymous”, with their carping about the protest, which does not conceal their obvious animus towards labor unions and low wage workers, are sending copies of their posts to the Mrak Hall administration

    it would really be regretable if they didn’t get some credit and opportunity for advancement for such staunch support of the anti-union cause

    –Richard Estes

    P.S. appreciate you guys jumping in and proving my point about UCD historically being anti-labor

  91. Anonymous

    You are a bunch of spammers..

    We dont care about your militant unionism.
    If you dont like your job, get another one!

    People who block roads run the risk of being run over.. like that idiot protester a few years back who tried to stop a train and lost his legs !

    ‘The people’s…’ BS ! Go to hell you commie dogs.

    You dont speak for the people of Davis any more than Rush Limbaugh does! LOL

  92. Richard

    hope the various reiterations of “anonymous”, with their carping about the protest, which does not conceal their obvious animus towards labor unions and low wage workers, are sending copies of their posts to the Mrak Hall administration

    it would really be regretable if they didn’t get some credit and opportunity for advancement for such staunch support of the anti-union cause

    –Richard Estes

    P.S. appreciate you guys jumping in and proving my point about UCD historically being anti-labor

  93. Anonymous

    You are a bunch of spammers..

    We dont care about your militant unionism.
    If you dont like your job, get another one!

    People who block roads run the risk of being run over.. like that idiot protester a few years back who tried to stop a train and lost his legs !

    ‘The people’s…’ BS ! Go to hell you commie dogs.

    You dont speak for the people of Davis any more than Rush Limbaugh does! LOL

  94. Richard

    hope the various reiterations of “anonymous”, with their carping about the protest, which does not conceal their obvious animus towards labor unions and low wage workers, are sending copies of their posts to the Mrak Hall administration

    it would really be regretable if they didn’t get some credit and opportunity for advancement for such staunch support of the anti-union cause

    –Richard Estes

    P.S. appreciate you guys jumping in and proving my point about UCD historically being anti-labor

  95. Anonymous

    You are a bunch of spammers..

    We dont care about your militant unionism.
    If you dont like your job, get another one!

    People who block roads run the risk of being run over.. like that idiot protester a few years back who tried to stop a train and lost his legs !

    ‘The people’s…’ BS ! Go to hell you commie dogs.

    You dont speak for the people of Davis any more than Rush Limbaugh does! LOL

  96. Richard

    hope the various reiterations of “anonymous”, with their carping about the protest, which does not conceal their obvious animus towards labor unions and low wage workers, are sending copies of their posts to the Mrak Hall administration

    it would really be regretable if they didn’t get some credit and opportunity for advancement for such staunch support of the anti-union cause

    –Richard Estes

    P.S. appreciate you guys jumping in and proving my point about UCD historically being anti-labor

  97. Anonymous

    UCD would not be so anti-union if protestors actually were peaceful during their “demonstrations”. Check the history…its a rare occasion that you folks keep your wits while protesting. Its like you get high off of it.

  98. Anonymous

    UCD would not be so anti-union if protestors actually were peaceful during their “demonstrations”. Check the history…its a rare occasion that you folks keep your wits while protesting. Its like you get high off of it.

  99. Anonymous

    UCD would not be so anti-union if protestors actually were peaceful during their “demonstrations”. Check the history…its a rare occasion that you folks keep your wits while protesting. Its like you get high off of it.

  100. Anonymous

    UCD would not be so anti-union if protestors actually were peaceful during their “demonstrations”. Check the history…its a rare occasion that you folks keep your wits while protesting. Its like you get high off of it.

  101. Anonymous

    I thank you for finally explaining to me what your objections are so that I can go through and explain to you point by point why I think you either misunderstand Camp or are flat out wrong.

    “That’s against procedure; you don’t put handcuffs on for that long. You simply put them on there to make sure I’m not going to do something bad.”

    This is primarily an issue about police procedure. He’s complaining that the police did not follow procedure when they arrested him. Are you suggesting that the police are not under an obligation to adhere to police procedure?

    “Failure to disperse is nothing, this is a free speech thing, you don’t put people in jail for union organizing.”

    Usually protestors are processed and released for failure to disperse, not everyone arrested actually goes to jail.

    “I said ‘what the hell do you mean we were trespassing?’ We were sitting in a small circle; we weren’t blocking anybody’s egress and access. People were all doing business there in the building. We weren’t trespassing, this was public property at 2 pm in the afternoon, what the hell are you talking about, we weren’t trespassing. This is a government building, it’s 2:00 in the afternoon, we’re not trespassing.”

    Again this is a question as to what the proper procedure should have been.

    “If Bill didn’t know what he was getting into, then he should have not volunteered to get arrested.”

    I don’t see any evidence that he didn’t know what he was getting into, what I do see are questions as to whether police and authorities acted appropriately. I see those as completely different issues.

    “YOU DONT LIKE IT?…GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.”

    I disagree–I would suggest–if you don’t like it, force it to change. Why accept injustice? Are you actually going to claim to be a liberal with that attitude, because to me that’s a love it or leave it attitude and decidedly conservative.

  102. Anonymous

    I thank you for finally explaining to me what your objections are so that I can go through and explain to you point by point why I think you either misunderstand Camp or are flat out wrong.

    “That’s against procedure; you don’t put handcuffs on for that long. You simply put them on there to make sure I’m not going to do something bad.”

    This is primarily an issue about police procedure. He’s complaining that the police did not follow procedure when they arrested him. Are you suggesting that the police are not under an obligation to adhere to police procedure?

    “Failure to disperse is nothing, this is a free speech thing, you don’t put people in jail for union organizing.”

    Usually protestors are processed and released for failure to disperse, not everyone arrested actually goes to jail.

    “I said ‘what the hell do you mean we were trespassing?’ We were sitting in a small circle; we weren’t blocking anybody’s egress and access. People were all doing business there in the building. We weren’t trespassing, this was public property at 2 pm in the afternoon, what the hell are you talking about, we weren’t trespassing. This is a government building, it’s 2:00 in the afternoon, we’re not trespassing.”

    Again this is a question as to what the proper procedure should have been.

    “If Bill didn’t know what he was getting into, then he should have not volunteered to get arrested.”

    I don’t see any evidence that he didn’t know what he was getting into, what I do see are questions as to whether police and authorities acted appropriately. I see those as completely different issues.

    “YOU DONT LIKE IT?…GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.”

    I disagree–I would suggest–if you don’t like it, force it to change. Why accept injustice? Are you actually going to claim to be a liberal with that attitude, because to me that’s a love it or leave it attitude and decidedly conservative.

  103. Anonymous

    I thank you for finally explaining to me what your objections are so that I can go through and explain to you point by point why I think you either misunderstand Camp or are flat out wrong.

    “That’s against procedure; you don’t put handcuffs on for that long. You simply put them on there to make sure I’m not going to do something bad.”

    This is primarily an issue about police procedure. He’s complaining that the police did not follow procedure when they arrested him. Are you suggesting that the police are not under an obligation to adhere to police procedure?

    “Failure to disperse is nothing, this is a free speech thing, you don’t put people in jail for union organizing.”

    Usually protestors are processed and released for failure to disperse, not everyone arrested actually goes to jail.

    “I said ‘what the hell do you mean we were trespassing?’ We were sitting in a small circle; we weren’t blocking anybody’s egress and access. People were all doing business there in the building. We weren’t trespassing, this was public property at 2 pm in the afternoon, what the hell are you talking about, we weren’t trespassing. This is a government building, it’s 2:00 in the afternoon, we’re not trespassing.”

    Again this is a question as to what the proper procedure should have been.

    “If Bill didn’t know what he was getting into, then he should have not volunteered to get arrested.”

    I don’t see any evidence that he didn’t know what he was getting into, what I do see are questions as to whether police and authorities acted appropriately. I see those as completely different issues.

    “YOU DONT LIKE IT?…GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.”

    I disagree–I would suggest–if you don’t like it, force it to change. Why accept injustice? Are you actually going to claim to be a liberal with that attitude, because to me that’s a love it or leave it attitude and decidedly conservative.

  104. Anonymous

    I thank you for finally explaining to me what your objections are so that I can go through and explain to you point by point why I think you either misunderstand Camp or are flat out wrong.

    “That’s against procedure; you don’t put handcuffs on for that long. You simply put them on there to make sure I’m not going to do something bad.”

    This is primarily an issue about police procedure. He’s complaining that the police did not follow procedure when they arrested him. Are you suggesting that the police are not under an obligation to adhere to police procedure?

    “Failure to disperse is nothing, this is a free speech thing, you don’t put people in jail for union organizing.”

    Usually protestors are processed and released for failure to disperse, not everyone arrested actually goes to jail.

    “I said ‘what the hell do you mean we were trespassing?’ We were sitting in a small circle; we weren’t blocking anybody’s egress and access. People were all doing business there in the building. We weren’t trespassing, this was public property at 2 pm in the afternoon, what the hell are you talking about, we weren’t trespassing. This is a government building, it’s 2:00 in the afternoon, we’re not trespassing.”

    Again this is a question as to what the proper procedure should have been.

    “If Bill didn’t know what he was getting into, then he should have not volunteered to get arrested.”

    I don’t see any evidence that he didn’t know what he was getting into, what I do see are questions as to whether police and authorities acted appropriately. I see those as completely different issues.

    “YOU DONT LIKE IT?…GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.”

    I disagree–I would suggest–if you don’t like it, force it to change. Why accept injustice? Are you actually going to claim to be a liberal with that attitude, because to me that’s a love it or leave it attitude and decidedly conservative.

  105. 無名 - wu ming

    anyone want to place bets that many of today’s crop of anonymous heroes came here through the bee‘s link to this blog yesterday? this thread reads suspiciously like the threads there, chock full o’ wingnuts.

    i mean, seriously, “commie dogs”? here’s a hint, gratis: the current party line is that you’re all supposed to be freaking out about “islamofascists,” the commie thing was two decades ago (last decade was the UN black helicopters coming to take your guns away). get with the talking points.

  106. 無名 - wu ming

    anyone want to place bets that many of today’s crop of anonymous heroes came here through the bee‘s link to this blog yesterday? this thread reads suspiciously like the threads there, chock full o’ wingnuts.

    i mean, seriously, “commie dogs”? here’s a hint, gratis: the current party line is that you’re all supposed to be freaking out about “islamofascists,” the commie thing was two decades ago (last decade was the UN black helicopters coming to take your guns away). get with the talking points.

  107. 無名 - wu ming

    anyone want to place bets that many of today’s crop of anonymous heroes came here through the bee‘s link to this blog yesterday? this thread reads suspiciously like the threads there, chock full o’ wingnuts.

    i mean, seriously, “commie dogs”? here’s a hint, gratis: the current party line is that you’re all supposed to be freaking out about “islamofascists,” the commie thing was two decades ago (last decade was the UN black helicopters coming to take your guns away). get with the talking points.

  108. 無名 - wu ming

    anyone want to place bets that many of today’s crop of anonymous heroes came here through the bee‘s link to this blog yesterday? this thread reads suspiciously like the threads there, chock full o’ wingnuts.

    i mean, seriously, “commie dogs”? here’s a hint, gratis: the current party line is that you’re all supposed to be freaking out about “islamofascists,” the commie thing was two decades ago (last decade was the UN black helicopters coming to take your guns away). get with the talking points.

  109. Anonymous

    I’m an alum and it’s embarassing that UCD can’t treat the Sodexho workers with dignity and respect. I will rethink the $$$ I give to the Annual Fund.

  110. Anonymous

    I’m an alum and it’s embarassing that UCD can’t treat the Sodexho workers with dignity and respect. I will rethink the $$$ I give to the Annual Fund.

  111. Anonymous

    I’m an alum and it’s embarassing that UCD can’t treat the Sodexho workers with dignity and respect. I will rethink the $$$ I give to the Annual Fund.

  112. Anonymous

    I’m an alum and it’s embarassing that UCD can’t treat the Sodexho workers with dignity and respect. I will rethink the $$$ I give to the Annual Fund.

  113. Anonymous

    Hate to pop your bubble, Doug and Wu, but not everyone in Davis thinks like you, not even people who firmly consider themselves liberal Democrats. Some of us are capable of looking at things without party blinders on. So don’t go calling us “wingnuts.”

  114. Anonymous

    Hate to pop your bubble, Doug and Wu, but not everyone in Davis thinks like you, not even people who firmly consider themselves liberal Democrats. Some of us are capable of looking at things without party blinders on. So don’t go calling us “wingnuts.”

  115. Anonymous

    Hate to pop your bubble, Doug and Wu, but not everyone in Davis thinks like you, not even people who firmly consider themselves liberal Democrats. Some of us are capable of looking at things without party blinders on. So don’t go calling us “wingnuts.”

  116. Anonymous

    Hate to pop your bubble, Doug and Wu, but not everyone in Davis thinks like you, not even people who firmly consider themselves liberal Democrats. Some of us are capable of looking at things without party blinders on. So don’t go calling us “wingnuts.”

  117. 無名 - wu ming

    who said anything about a party? being in favor of good working conditions, the right to organize unions and get decent wages for an honest day’s work has been central to political liberalism for well over a century now, going back to the original progressives during the gilded age. the anti-worker, anti-union opinions that many have posted above are textbook conservatism, whether their proponents consider themselves to be or not.

  118. 無名 - wu ming

    who said anything about a party? being in favor of good working conditions, the right to organize unions and get decent wages for an honest day’s work has been central to political liberalism for well over a century now, going back to the original progressives during the gilded age. the anti-worker, anti-union opinions that many have posted above are textbook conservatism, whether their proponents consider themselves to be or not.

  119. 無名 - wu ming

    who said anything about a party? being in favor of good working conditions, the right to organize unions and get decent wages for an honest day’s work has been central to political liberalism for well over a century now, going back to the original progressives during the gilded age. the anti-worker, anti-union opinions that many have posted above are textbook conservatism, whether their proponents consider themselves to be or not.

  120. 無名 - wu ming

    who said anything about a party? being in favor of good working conditions, the right to organize unions and get decent wages for an honest day’s work has been central to political liberalism for well over a century now, going back to the original progressives during the gilded age. the anti-worker, anti-union opinions that many have posted above are textbook conservatism, whether their proponents consider themselves to be or not.

  121. Anonymous

    I’m not sure what you people are talking about. When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested. Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into. From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by. Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron. This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that? How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).

  122. Anonymous

    I’m not sure what you people are talking about. When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested. Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into. From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by. Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron. This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that? How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).

  123. Anonymous

    I’m not sure what you people are talking about. When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested. Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into. From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by. Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron. This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that? How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).

  124. Anonymous

    I’m not sure what you people are talking about. When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested. Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into. From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by. Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron. This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that? How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).

  125. B-Town Beast

    Hello Everyone,
    I would like to clarify a few things and redirect this conversation for anyone who is honestly attempting to understand the situation in our community. I was one of the 15 arrested on May 23rd. Though it is Bill’s right to do an interview telling his story, I would like to ask the question why have you not heard from any of us students or workers? Why do we not hear the stories of the students who were arrested on MayDay? We have the same outlets, same resources, we even have our own publication. The reason is because this is not about us. It is not about me, or Bill or the UC Davis police. Furthermore, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE UNION. If it was just about the union the workers would just unionize now. This is about the workers getting UC jobs, and being part of our community, with the ability to live in Davis, not ride the bus for 4 hours a day, and have healthcare for their children. Two days ago I talked to a service worker whose voice trembled as he relayed his story. A single father of a 5 year old and 9 year old. None of the three have healthcare and he often must turn his phone off for months to pay for food. Our university is doing a good job of masking the face of these people. The last thing our university would want is for the students to MEET the actual workers because then they could not make their arguments trying to put students against workers. I would encourage everyone who is writting here to actually go listen to the career workers and very simply hear their stories. You can visit them at 2:15 behind Tercero dining commons. Until you ask your questions and criticisms to a human face instead of from the other side of a computer screen, I would ask you please do not focus on Bill, or unions, or police, and lose sight of the reality. Thank you for those who are approaching this human struggle with an open-heart.

  126. B-Town Beast

    Hello Everyone,
    I would like to clarify a few things and redirect this conversation for anyone who is honestly attempting to understand the situation in our community. I was one of the 15 arrested on May 23rd. Though it is Bill’s right to do an interview telling his story, I would like to ask the question why have you not heard from any of us students or workers? Why do we not hear the stories of the students who were arrested on MayDay? We have the same outlets, same resources, we even have our own publication. The reason is because this is not about us. It is not about me, or Bill or the UC Davis police. Furthermore, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE UNION. If it was just about the union the workers would just unionize now. This is about the workers getting UC jobs, and being part of our community, with the ability to live in Davis, not ride the bus for 4 hours a day, and have healthcare for their children. Two days ago I talked to a service worker whose voice trembled as he relayed his story. A single father of a 5 year old and 9 year old. None of the three have healthcare and he often must turn his phone off for months to pay for food. Our university is doing a good job of masking the face of these people. The last thing our university would want is for the students to MEET the actual workers because then they could not make their arguments trying to put students against workers. I would encourage everyone who is writting here to actually go listen to the career workers and very simply hear their stories. You can visit them at 2:15 behind Tercero dining commons. Until you ask your questions and criticisms to a human face instead of from the other side of a computer screen, I would ask you please do not focus on Bill, or unions, or police, and lose sight of the reality. Thank you for those who are approaching this human struggle with an open-heart.

  127. B-Town Beast

    Hello Everyone,
    I would like to clarify a few things and redirect this conversation for anyone who is honestly attempting to understand the situation in our community. I was one of the 15 arrested on May 23rd. Though it is Bill’s right to do an interview telling his story, I would like to ask the question why have you not heard from any of us students or workers? Why do we not hear the stories of the students who were arrested on MayDay? We have the same outlets, same resources, we even have our own publication. The reason is because this is not about us. It is not about me, or Bill or the UC Davis police. Furthermore, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE UNION. If it was just about the union the workers would just unionize now. This is about the workers getting UC jobs, and being part of our community, with the ability to live in Davis, not ride the bus for 4 hours a day, and have healthcare for their children. Two days ago I talked to a service worker whose voice trembled as he relayed his story. A single father of a 5 year old and 9 year old. None of the three have healthcare and he often must turn his phone off for months to pay for food. Our university is doing a good job of masking the face of these people. The last thing our university would want is for the students to MEET the actual workers because then they could not make their arguments trying to put students against workers. I would encourage everyone who is writting here to actually go listen to the career workers and very simply hear their stories. You can visit them at 2:15 behind Tercero dining commons. Until you ask your questions and criticisms to a human face instead of from the other side of a computer screen, I would ask you please do not focus on Bill, or unions, or police, and lose sight of the reality. Thank you for those who are approaching this human struggle with an open-heart.

  128. B-Town Beast

    Hello Everyone,
    I would like to clarify a few things and redirect this conversation for anyone who is honestly attempting to understand the situation in our community. I was one of the 15 arrested on May 23rd. Though it is Bill’s right to do an interview telling his story, I would like to ask the question why have you not heard from any of us students or workers? Why do we not hear the stories of the students who were arrested on MayDay? We have the same outlets, same resources, we even have our own publication. The reason is because this is not about us. It is not about me, or Bill or the UC Davis police. Furthermore, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE UNION. If it was just about the union the workers would just unionize now. This is about the workers getting UC jobs, and being part of our community, with the ability to live in Davis, not ride the bus for 4 hours a day, and have healthcare for their children. Two days ago I talked to a service worker whose voice trembled as he relayed his story. A single father of a 5 year old and 9 year old. None of the three have healthcare and he often must turn his phone off for months to pay for food. Our university is doing a good job of masking the face of these people. The last thing our university would want is for the students to MEET the actual workers because then they could not make their arguments trying to put students against workers. I would encourage everyone who is writting here to actually go listen to the career workers and very simply hear their stories. You can visit them at 2:15 behind Tercero dining commons. Until you ask your questions and criticisms to a human face instead of from the other side of a computer screen, I would ask you please do not focus on Bill, or unions, or police, and lose sight of the reality. Thank you for those who are approaching this human struggle with an open-heart.

  129. Organizer

    I have mixed feelings about B-town beast’s post. On the one hand, I think it is true that in this conversation the point has gotten lost. But frankly it got lost in the other article as well that was more focused on the protest. On the other hand, putting a face on the struggle enables the community to connect with a struggle. In the ideal world people would do as B-town suggests, in the real world, this is as close as most of the public is going to get to the struggle or the real issues.

    Thus I think it was a good idea that DPD interview Bill Camp.

  130. Organizer

    I have mixed feelings about B-town beast’s post. On the one hand, I think it is true that in this conversation the point has gotten lost. But frankly it got lost in the other article as well that was more focused on the protest. On the other hand, putting a face on the struggle enables the community to connect with a struggle. In the ideal world people would do as B-town suggests, in the real world, this is as close as most of the public is going to get to the struggle or the real issues.

    Thus I think it was a good idea that DPD interview Bill Camp.

  131. Organizer

    I have mixed feelings about B-town beast’s post. On the one hand, I think it is true that in this conversation the point has gotten lost. But frankly it got lost in the other article as well that was more focused on the protest. On the other hand, putting a face on the struggle enables the community to connect with a struggle. In the ideal world people would do as B-town suggests, in the real world, this is as close as most of the public is going to get to the struggle or the real issues.

    Thus I think it was a good idea that DPD interview Bill Camp.

  132. Organizer

    I have mixed feelings about B-town beast’s post. On the one hand, I think it is true that in this conversation the point has gotten lost. But frankly it got lost in the other article as well that was more focused on the protest. On the other hand, putting a face on the struggle enables the community to connect with a struggle. In the ideal world people would do as B-town suggests, in the real world, this is as close as most of the public is going to get to the struggle or the real issues.

    Thus I think it was a good idea that DPD interview Bill Camp.

  133. Anonymous

    “I’m not sure what you people are talking about.”

    I don’t know who “you people” refers to, but I suggest you figure out what we are talking about before you start arguing against things.

    ” When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested.”

    The point you are missing is whether or not he has a valid complaint. That needs to be the point of this discussion. Camp argued that the police did not follow the proper procedure. Camp is arguing that the police were being used to crush the strike. If either of these are true, then he has a valid complaint. If you do not think that is valid, then make an argument to explain yourself.

    “Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into.”

    So basically you are giving the police carte blanche to do whatever they want?

    “From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by.”

    A public building in the middle of the day? What does the law say about this?

    “Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron.”

    So basically you are going to close your mind because you cannot make a coherent argument?

    “This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that?”

    Obviously not someone who does not believe in civil disobedience as a means to achieve social justice. I wonder if you are a fan of Martin Luther King?

    “How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).”

    Don’t let the door hit you…

  134. Anonymous

    “I’m not sure what you people are talking about.”

    I don’t know who “you people” refers to, but I suggest you figure out what we are talking about before you start arguing against things.

    ” When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested.”

    The point you are missing is whether or not he has a valid complaint. That needs to be the point of this discussion. Camp argued that the police did not follow the proper procedure. Camp is arguing that the police were being used to crush the strike. If either of these are true, then he has a valid complaint. If you do not think that is valid, then make an argument to explain yourself.

    “Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into.”

    So basically you are giving the police carte blanche to do whatever they want?

    “From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by.”

    A public building in the middle of the day? What does the law say about this?

    “Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron.”

    So basically you are going to close your mind because you cannot make a coherent argument?

    “This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that?”

    Obviously not someone who does not believe in civil disobedience as a means to achieve social justice. I wonder if you are a fan of Martin Luther King?

    “How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).”

    Don’t let the door hit you…

  135. Anonymous

    “I’m not sure what you people are talking about.”

    I don’t know who “you people” refers to, but I suggest you figure out what we are talking about before you start arguing against things.

    ” When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested.”

    The point you are missing is whether or not he has a valid complaint. That needs to be the point of this discussion. Camp argued that the police did not follow the proper procedure. Camp is arguing that the police were being used to crush the strike. If either of these are true, then he has a valid complaint. If you do not think that is valid, then make an argument to explain yourself.

    “Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into.”

    So basically you are giving the police carte blanche to do whatever they want?

    “From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by.”

    A public building in the middle of the day? What does the law say about this?

    “Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron.”

    So basically you are going to close your mind because you cannot make a coherent argument?

    “This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that?”

    Obviously not someone who does not believe in civil disobedience as a means to achieve social justice. I wonder if you are a fan of Martin Luther King?

    “How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).”

    Don’t let the door hit you…

  136. Anonymous

    “I’m not sure what you people are talking about.”

    I don’t know who “you people” refers to, but I suggest you figure out what we are talking about before you start arguing against things.

    ” When Bill is trying to argue what he is going to be charged with, then that is a clear complaint and of being arrested.”

    The point you are missing is whether or not he has a valid complaint. That needs to be the point of this discussion. Camp argued that the police did not follow the proper procedure. Camp is arguing that the police were being used to crush the strike. If either of these are true, then he has a valid complaint. If you do not think that is valid, then make an argument to explain yourself.

    “Such a cry baby should have not gotten himself into this unless he knew what he was getting into.”

    So basically you are giving the police carte blanche to do whatever they want?

    “From what I read, he was trespassing the moment they did not want to leave at the time they were told they could stay by.”

    A public building in the middle of the day? What does the law say about this?

    “Simply put, left-wing-radical-nut-case-thinking liberals have struck again. I’m not even going to return to this as it just raises my blood pressure to read the sad attempts of you guys “trying” to defend such a moron.”

    So basically you are going to close your mind because you cannot make a coherent argument?

    “This guy went out and TRIED to get arrested…who in their right mind would want to defend that?”

    Obviously not someone who does not believe in civil disobedience as a means to achieve social justice. I wonder if you are a fan of Martin Luther King?

    “How about we get back to the issue of why those people were there in the first place and not bicker about why this idiot is in jail. I’m out…and if you liberals really cared…go post his bail (as mentioned before by other poster).”

    Don’t let the door hit you…

  137. Anonymous

    i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo. All of the quoted text is absolutely true…you have no basis to argue against him. you really need to look at your motive instead of pulling stuff out your arse. there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame

  138. Anonymous

    i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo. All of the quoted text is absolutely true…you have no basis to argue against him. you really need to look at your motive instead of pulling stuff out your arse. there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame

  139. Anonymous

    i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo. All of the quoted text is absolutely true…you have no basis to argue against him. you really need to look at your motive instead of pulling stuff out your arse. there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame

  140. Anonymous

    i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo. All of the quoted text is absolutely true…you have no basis to argue against him. you really need to look at your motive instead of pulling stuff out your arse. there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame

  141. Anonymous

    After reading all of this i get:

    Bill is an idiot for trying to get arrested and then complaining about the reason he was getting arrested.

    and…

    If these workers aren’t happy, then why dont they go somewhere else? they are not forced to stay there, nor forced to accept whatever treatment the protestors are claiming. If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.

  142. Anonymous

    After reading all of this i get:

    Bill is an idiot for trying to get arrested and then complaining about the reason he was getting arrested.

    and…

    If these workers aren’t happy, then why dont they go somewhere else? they are not forced to stay there, nor forced to accept whatever treatment the protestors are claiming. If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.

  143. Anonymous

    After reading all of this i get:

    Bill is an idiot for trying to get arrested and then complaining about the reason he was getting arrested.

    and…

    If these workers aren’t happy, then why dont they go somewhere else? they are not forced to stay there, nor forced to accept whatever treatment the protestors are claiming. If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.

  144. Anonymous

    After reading all of this i get:

    Bill is an idiot for trying to get arrested and then complaining about the reason he was getting arrested.

    and…

    If these workers aren’t happy, then why dont they go somewhere else? they are not forced to stay there, nor forced to accept whatever treatment the protestors are claiming. If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.

  145. Doug Paul Davis

    “i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo.”

    “there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame”

    ————————————

    I have to say, I was pretty excited about interviewing Bill Camp, a man I have great respect for. I have to say, I am pretty discouraged about the tone that this thread has taken. I like discussion and debate as much as the next guy. That’s one reason I founded this blog, but the quotes from above add nothing to our understanding of your position. It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.

  146. Doug Paul Davis

    “i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo.”

    “there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame”

    ————————————

    I have to say, I was pretty excited about interviewing Bill Camp, a man I have great respect for. I have to say, I am pretty discouraged about the tone that this thread has taken. I like discussion and debate as much as the next guy. That’s one reason I founded this blog, but the quotes from above add nothing to our understanding of your position. It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.

  147. Doug Paul Davis

    “i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo.”

    “there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame”

    ————————————

    I have to say, I was pretty excited about interviewing Bill Camp, a man I have great respect for. I have to say, I am pretty discouraged about the tone that this thread has taken. I like discussion and debate as much as the next guy. That’s one reason I founded this blog, but the quotes from above add nothing to our understanding of your position. It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.

  148. Doug Paul Davis

    “i have 10 dollars that says this last poster is either a homo.”

    “there are too many liberals in this world, its a shame”

    ————————————

    I have to say, I was pretty excited about interviewing Bill Camp, a man I have great respect for. I have to say, I am pretty discouraged about the tone that this thread has taken. I like discussion and debate as much as the next guy. That’s one reason I founded this blog, but the quotes from above add nothing to our understanding of your position. It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.

  149. Anonymous

    “It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.”

    funny…that’s what i say about unions. they want your money so they can complain on your behalf. weird business to run.

  150. Anonymous

    “It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.”

    funny…that’s what i say about unions. they want your money so they can complain on your behalf. weird business to run.

  151. Anonymous

    “It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.”

    funny…that’s what i say about unions. they want your money so they can complain on your behalf. weird business to run.

  152. Anonymous

    “It’s hard to respect someone’s viewpoint when they stoop to this level.”

    funny…that’s what i say about unions. they want your money so they can complain on your behalf. weird business to run.

  153. Doug Paul Davis

    “If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.”

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles. Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles. Bill Camp was relaying the latest tactics by the university to do the same. It probably does not equate with practices of the past, but it is of the same genre. No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care, I strongly support this struggle and am very disappointed that a few on here, likely the same people reposting, have tried to mau mau the movement.

  154. Doug Paul Davis

    “If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.”

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles. Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles. Bill Camp was relaying the latest tactics by the university to do the same. It probably does not equate with practices of the past, but it is of the same genre. No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care, I strongly support this struggle and am very disappointed that a few on here, likely the same people reposting, have tried to mau mau the movement.

  155. Doug Paul Davis

    “If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.”

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles. Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles. Bill Camp was relaying the latest tactics by the university to do the same. It probably does not equate with practices of the past, but it is of the same genre. No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care, I strongly support this struggle and am very disappointed that a few on here, likely the same people reposting, have tried to mau mau the movement.

  156. Doug Paul Davis

    “If these people are not making enough money, then it doesn’t require paying a union to get it fixed. I say for fix it your damn self, you dont need hired help to get another job.”

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles. Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles. Bill Camp was relaying the latest tactics by the university to do the same. It probably does not equate with practices of the past, but it is of the same genre. No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care, I strongly support this struggle and am very disappointed that a few on here, likely the same people reposting, have tried to mau mau the movement.

  157. Anonymous

    “No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care…”

    I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so. It all comes down to choice, and they in a country that gives them that choice.

    If I owned a business that payed only 5 dollars an hour to shovel crap, and I demanded 12 hours shifts. I’m sure I would not have very many workers at all and therefore not be able to run my business of Shovel Crap Inc. That alone would either force me to raise wages and reduce work time, or close down shop. No union involved.

    If there peopl still applying to work at UCD then UCD is doing just fine to pay whatever they are paying because there obviously are plenty of people willing to work at that price. No one is forcing them to stay there. Instead of “protesting” for higher pay, why not recruit for college classes. Or maybe offer resume printing services.

    I believe it is wrong to take choice away from anyone, and that includs business. Unions take that freedom away.

  158. Anonymous

    “No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care…”

    I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so. It all comes down to choice, and they in a country that gives them that choice.

    If I owned a business that payed only 5 dollars an hour to shovel crap, and I demanded 12 hours shifts. I’m sure I would not have very many workers at all and therefore not be able to run my business of Shovel Crap Inc. That alone would either force me to raise wages and reduce work time, or close down shop. No union involved.

    If there peopl still applying to work at UCD then UCD is doing just fine to pay whatever they are paying because there obviously are plenty of people willing to work at that price. No one is forcing them to stay there. Instead of “protesting” for higher pay, why not recruit for college classes. Or maybe offer resume printing services.

    I believe it is wrong to take choice away from anyone, and that includs business. Unions take that freedom away.

  159. Anonymous

    “No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care…”

    I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so. It all comes down to choice, and they in a country that gives them that choice.

    If I owned a business that payed only 5 dollars an hour to shovel crap, and I demanded 12 hours shifts. I’m sure I would not have very many workers at all and therefore not be able to run my business of Shovel Crap Inc. That alone would either force me to raise wages and reduce work time, or close down shop. No union involved.

    If there peopl still applying to work at UCD then UCD is doing just fine to pay whatever they are paying because there obviously are plenty of people willing to work at that price. No one is forcing them to stay there. Instead of “protesting” for higher pay, why not recruit for college classes. Or maybe offer resume printing services.

    I believe it is wrong to take choice away from anyone, and that includs business. Unions take that freedom away.

  160. Anonymous

    “No one should ever have to settle for low wages and unaffordable health care…”

    I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so. It all comes down to choice, and they in a country that gives them that choice.

    If I owned a business that payed only 5 dollars an hour to shovel crap, and I demanded 12 hours shifts. I’m sure I would not have very many workers at all and therefore not be able to run my business of Shovel Crap Inc. That alone would either force me to raise wages and reduce work time, or close down shop. No union involved.

    If there peopl still applying to work at UCD then UCD is doing just fine to pay whatever they are paying because there obviously are plenty of people willing to work at that price. No one is forcing them to stay there. Instead of “protesting” for higher pay, why not recruit for college classes. Or maybe offer resume printing services.

    I believe it is wrong to take choice away from anyone, and that includs business. Unions take that freedom away.

  161. Vincente

    “I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so.”

    Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc.

    OF COURSE IT TAKES A UNION.

  162. Vincente

    “I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so.”

    Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc.

    OF COURSE IT TAKES A UNION.

  163. Vincente

    “I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so.”

    Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc.

    OF COURSE IT TAKES A UNION.

  164. Vincente

    “I completely and 110% agree, but…it still doesn’t take a union to do so.”

    Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc.

    OF COURSE IT TAKES A UNION.

  165. Anonymous

    Two managers and a union worker were fishing on a lake one day, when Jesus walked across the water and joined them in the boat. When the three astonished men had settled down enough to speak, the first guy asked humbly, “Jesus, I’ve suffered from back pain ever since I took shrapnel in the Vietnam war…could you help me?” “Of course, my son”, Jesus said, and when he touched the man’s back, he felt relief for the first time in years. The second man, who wore very thick glasses and had a hard time reading and driving, asked if Jesus could do anything about his eyesight. Jesus smiled, removed the man’s glasses and tossed them in the lake. When they hit the water, the man’s eyes cleared and he could see everything distinctly. When Jesus turned to heal the union worker, the guy put his hands up and cried defensively, “Don’t touch me! I’m on long term disability.”

  166. Anonymous

    Two managers and a union worker were fishing on a lake one day, when Jesus walked across the water and joined them in the boat. When the three astonished men had settled down enough to speak, the first guy asked humbly, “Jesus, I’ve suffered from back pain ever since I took shrapnel in the Vietnam war…could you help me?” “Of course, my son”, Jesus said, and when he touched the man’s back, he felt relief for the first time in years. The second man, who wore very thick glasses and had a hard time reading and driving, asked if Jesus could do anything about his eyesight. Jesus smiled, removed the man’s glasses and tossed them in the lake. When they hit the water, the man’s eyes cleared and he could see everything distinctly. When Jesus turned to heal the union worker, the guy put his hands up and cried defensively, “Don’t touch me! I’m on long term disability.”

  167. Anonymous

    Two managers and a union worker were fishing on a lake one day, when Jesus walked across the water and joined them in the boat. When the three astonished men had settled down enough to speak, the first guy asked humbly, “Jesus, I’ve suffered from back pain ever since I took shrapnel in the Vietnam war…could you help me?” “Of course, my son”, Jesus said, and when he touched the man’s back, he felt relief for the first time in years. The second man, who wore very thick glasses and had a hard time reading and driving, asked if Jesus could do anything about his eyesight. Jesus smiled, removed the man’s glasses and tossed them in the lake. When they hit the water, the man’s eyes cleared and he could see everything distinctly. When Jesus turned to heal the union worker, the guy put his hands up and cried defensively, “Don’t touch me! I’m on long term disability.”

  168. Anonymous

    Two managers and a union worker were fishing on a lake one day, when Jesus walked across the water and joined them in the boat. When the three astonished men had settled down enough to speak, the first guy asked humbly, “Jesus, I’ve suffered from back pain ever since I took shrapnel in the Vietnam war…could you help me?” “Of course, my son”, Jesus said, and when he touched the man’s back, he felt relief for the first time in years. The second man, who wore very thick glasses and had a hard time reading and driving, asked if Jesus could do anything about his eyesight. Jesus smiled, removed the man’s glasses and tossed them in the lake. When they hit the water, the man’s eyes cleared and he could see everything distinctly. When Jesus turned to heal the union worker, the guy put his hands up and cried defensively, “Don’t touch me! I’m on long term disability.”

  169. Doug Paul Davis

    “It doesn’t take a union NOW. It seems they are around to just draw as much money as they can. And their justification is decades old.”

    As some know, my wife works for a union, I can guarantee you, they are not drawing much money now, they are working every day very hard to protect the rights of their members.

  170. Doug Paul Davis

    “It doesn’t take a union NOW. It seems they are around to just draw as much money as they can. And their justification is decades old.”

    As some know, my wife works for a union, I can guarantee you, they are not drawing much money now, they are working every day very hard to protect the rights of their members.

  171. Doug Paul Davis

    “It doesn’t take a union NOW. It seems they are around to just draw as much money as they can. And their justification is decades old.”

    As some know, my wife works for a union, I can guarantee you, they are not drawing much money now, they are working every day very hard to protect the rights of their members.

  172. Doug Paul Davis

    “It doesn’t take a union NOW. It seems they are around to just draw as much money as they can. And their justification is decades old.”

    As some know, my wife works for a union, I can guarantee you, they are not drawing much money now, they are working every day very hard to protect the rights of their members.

  173. Anonymous

    “…they are not drawing much money now…”

    I work for a union, and our president and VP are just rolling in cash. Even i make an awesome living here when its totally uncalled for. There is sooooo much streamlining that can be done here, but they are too that they would lose their jobs…so no one mentions it.

  174. Anonymous

    “…they are not drawing much money now…”

    I work for a union, and our president and VP are just rolling in cash. Even i make an awesome living here when its totally uncalled for. There is sooooo much streamlining that can be done here, but they are too that they would lose their jobs…so no one mentions it.

  175. Anonymous

    “…they are not drawing much money now…”

    I work for a union, and our president and VP are just rolling in cash. Even i make an awesome living here when its totally uncalled for. There is sooooo much streamlining that can be done here, but they are too that they would lose their jobs…so no one mentions it.

  176. Anonymous

    “…they are not drawing much money now…”

    I work for a union, and our president and VP are just rolling in cash. Even i make an awesome living here when its totally uncalled for. There is sooooo much streamlining that can be done here, but they are too that they would lose their jobs…so no one mentions it.

  177. Anonymous

    Negotiations between union members and their employer were at an impasse. The union denied that their workers were flagrantly abusing their contract’s sick-leave provisions.

    One morning at the bargaining table, the company’s chief negotiator held aloft the morning edition of the newspaper, “This man,” he announced, “called in sick yesterday!” There, on the sports page, was a photo of the supposedly ill employee, who had just won a local golf tournament with an excellent score.

    A union negotiator broke the silence in the room. “Wow,” he said. “Think of what kind of score he could have had if he hadn’t been sick!”

  178. Anonymous

    Negotiations between union members and their employer were at an impasse. The union denied that their workers were flagrantly abusing their contract’s sick-leave provisions.

    One morning at the bargaining table, the company’s chief negotiator held aloft the morning edition of the newspaper, “This man,” he announced, “called in sick yesterday!” There, on the sports page, was a photo of the supposedly ill employee, who had just won a local golf tournament with an excellent score.

    A union negotiator broke the silence in the room. “Wow,” he said. “Think of what kind of score he could have had if he hadn’t been sick!”

  179. Anonymous

    Negotiations between union members and their employer were at an impasse. The union denied that their workers were flagrantly abusing their contract’s sick-leave provisions.

    One morning at the bargaining table, the company’s chief negotiator held aloft the morning edition of the newspaper, “This man,” he announced, “called in sick yesterday!” There, on the sports page, was a photo of the supposedly ill employee, who had just won a local golf tournament with an excellent score.

    A union negotiator broke the silence in the room. “Wow,” he said. “Think of what kind of score he could have had if he hadn’t been sick!”

  180. Anonymous

    Negotiations between union members and their employer were at an impasse. The union denied that their workers were flagrantly abusing their contract’s sick-leave provisions.

    One morning at the bargaining table, the company’s chief negotiator held aloft the morning edition of the newspaper, “This man,” he announced, “called in sick yesterday!” There, on the sports page, was a photo of the supposedly ill employee, who had just won a local golf tournament with an excellent score.

    A union negotiator broke the silence in the room. “Wow,” he said. “Think of what kind of score he could have had if he hadn’t been sick!”

  181. Anonymous

    How many unionized workers does it take to change a light bulb?
    None. They assign the task to a non-unionized temporary.
    Just one, but he gets promoted two times before he finally finishes screwing it up.
    Just one, but once he gets tenure, he doesn’t change anymore.
    “Eighteen, you got a problem with that?”
    Fifty. Fifty? Yeah, fifty; its in the contract.
    Fourteen. One to give the bulb to the screw-inner. One to screw in the bulb. One to hold him on the step ladder. Four to hold the step ladder steady. One to flick the switch to test the bulb. One to make sure that the other bulbs in the room will need fixing. One to supervise. Two to take a coffee break, one to eat lunch, and one to nap.

  182. Anonymous

    How many unionized workers does it take to change a light bulb?
    None. They assign the task to a non-unionized temporary.
    Just one, but he gets promoted two times before he finally finishes screwing it up.
    Just one, but once he gets tenure, he doesn’t change anymore.
    “Eighteen, you got a problem with that?”
    Fifty. Fifty? Yeah, fifty; its in the contract.
    Fourteen. One to give the bulb to the screw-inner. One to screw in the bulb. One to hold him on the step ladder. Four to hold the step ladder steady. One to flick the switch to test the bulb. One to make sure that the other bulbs in the room will need fixing. One to supervise. Two to take a coffee break, one to eat lunch, and one to nap.

  183. Anonymous

    How many unionized workers does it take to change a light bulb?
    None. They assign the task to a non-unionized temporary.
    Just one, but he gets promoted two times before he finally finishes screwing it up.
    Just one, but once he gets tenure, he doesn’t change anymore.
    “Eighteen, you got a problem with that?”
    Fifty. Fifty? Yeah, fifty; its in the contract.
    Fourteen. One to give the bulb to the screw-inner. One to screw in the bulb. One to hold him on the step ladder. Four to hold the step ladder steady. One to flick the switch to test the bulb. One to make sure that the other bulbs in the room will need fixing. One to supervise. Two to take a coffee break, one to eat lunch, and one to nap.

  184. Anonymous

    How many unionized workers does it take to change a light bulb?
    None. They assign the task to a non-unionized temporary.
    Just one, but he gets promoted two times before he finally finishes screwing it up.
    Just one, but once he gets tenure, he doesn’t change anymore.
    “Eighteen, you got a problem with that?”
    Fifty. Fifty? Yeah, fifty; its in the contract.
    Fourteen. One to give the bulb to the screw-inner. One to screw in the bulb. One to hold him on the step ladder. Four to hold the step ladder steady. One to flick the switch to test the bulb. One to make sure that the other bulbs in the room will need fixing. One to supervise. Two to take a coffee break, one to eat lunch, and one to nap.

  185. Rich Rifkin

    “Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles.”

    David,

    Why do you suppose it is that American workers in non-unionized high tech industries make so much money with such good benefits? Or that workers in Japan, with feeble unions controlled by large industries, make such good salaries and benefits?

    And why is it, in your estimation, that highly unionized countries, such as France and Germany, have such miserably high rates of unemployment (and tremendous dissatisfaction among the large secondary working populations who are excluded by the unions)?

    And why is it that industrial unions in the U.S. for so long have been losing members? If being unionized is a win-win, why such a failing record in all competitive industries around the world?

  186. Rich Rifkin

    “Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles.”

    David,

    Why do you suppose it is that American workers in non-unionized high tech industries make so much money with such good benefits? Or that workers in Japan, with feeble unions controlled by large industries, make such good salaries and benefits?

    And why is it, in your estimation, that highly unionized countries, such as France and Germany, have such miserably high rates of unemployment (and tremendous dissatisfaction among the large secondary working populations who are excluded by the unions)?

    And why is it that industrial unions in the U.S. for so long have been losing members? If being unionized is a win-win, why such a failing record in all competitive industries around the world?

  187. Rich Rifkin

    “Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles.”

    David,

    Why do you suppose it is that American workers in non-unionized high tech industries make so much money with such good benefits? Or that workers in Japan, with feeble unions controlled by large industries, make such good salaries and benefits?

    And why is it, in your estimation, that highly unionized countries, such as France and Germany, have such miserably high rates of unemployment (and tremendous dissatisfaction among the large secondary working populations who are excluded by the unions)?

    And why is it that industrial unions in the U.S. for so long have been losing members? If being unionized is a win-win, why such a failing record in all competitive industries around the world?

  188. Rich Rifkin

    “Unions are not hired help, they are a group of workers who band together because through unity and organization they can achieve things that they cannot do alone. Throughout history, employers have used repressive means to quash labor struggles.”

    David,

    Why do you suppose it is that American workers in non-unionized high tech industries make so much money with such good benefits? Or that workers in Japan, with feeble unions controlled by large industries, make such good salaries and benefits?

    And why is it, in your estimation, that highly unionized countries, such as France and Germany, have such miserably high rates of unemployment (and tremendous dissatisfaction among the large secondary working populations who are excluded by the unions)?

    And why is it that industrial unions in the U.S. for so long have been losing members? If being unionized is a win-win, why such a failing record in all competitive industries around the world?

  189. Darnell

    “Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc”.

    I agree with Vincente that without unions most of the benefits and worker improvements mentioned above along with the child labor laws would be non-existent or very different from what they are today.

    However, I think unions are less relevant than they were a few decades ago. There are so many civilian and government watchdog organizations that it would be hard to imagine not having those rules.

    As a former union steward for CWA and later a manager that dealt with unions, I have never had a great deal of respect for people like Mr. Bill Camp and the peers he represents. I had/have a great deal of respect for the rank and file who are the ones that really take the brunt of the fallout between management and the union leaders. The union bosses never offered to pay my rent or car bills as strikes were a common occurrence at that time. They still received their pay as we walked the picket lines. The monetary gains made when the new contracts were settled were often offset by the time we weren’t being paid.

    To Mr. Camp’s credit at least he got off his duff and stood out there with the workers, a rare occasion.

    In closing, please, you would-be comedians and your union jokes, give it a rest, they are not funny spoken, and even less funny in print. You are showing your ignorance!

  190. Darnell

    “Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc”.

    I agree with Vincente that without unions most of the benefits and worker improvements mentioned above along with the child labor laws would be non-existent or very different from what they are today.

    However, I think unions are less relevant than they were a few decades ago. There are so many civilian and government watchdog organizations that it would be hard to imagine not having those rules.

    As a former union steward for CWA and later a manager that dealt with unions, I have never had a great deal of respect for people like Mr. Bill Camp and the peers he represents. I had/have a great deal of respect for the rank and file who are the ones that really take the brunt of the fallout between management and the union leaders. The union bosses never offered to pay my rent or car bills as strikes were a common occurrence at that time. They still received their pay as we walked the picket lines. The monetary gains made when the new contracts were settled were often offset by the time we weren’t being paid.

    To Mr. Camp’s credit at least he got off his duff and stood out there with the workers, a rare occasion.

    In closing, please, you would-be comedians and your union jokes, give it a rest, they are not funny spoken, and even less funny in print. You are showing your ignorance!

  191. Darnell

    “Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc”.

    I agree with Vincente that without unions most of the benefits and worker improvements mentioned above along with the child labor laws would be non-existent or very different from what they are today.

    However, I think unions are less relevant than they were a few decades ago. There are so many civilian and government watchdog organizations that it would be hard to imagine not having those rules.

    As a former union steward for CWA and later a manager that dealt with unions, I have never had a great deal of respect for people like Mr. Bill Camp and the peers he represents. I had/have a great deal of respect for the rank and file who are the ones that really take the brunt of the fallout between management and the union leaders. The union bosses never offered to pay my rent or car bills as strikes were a common occurrence at that time. They still received their pay as we walked the picket lines. The monetary gains made when the new contracts were settled were often offset by the time we weren’t being paid.

    To Mr. Camp’s credit at least he got off his duff and stood out there with the workers, a rare occasion.

    In closing, please, you would-be comedians and your union jokes, give it a rest, they are not funny spoken, and even less funny in print. You are showing your ignorance!

  192. Darnell

    “Of course it does, without unions, we would not have minimum wage, health care, 40 hour work week, 8 hour work day, safety regulations, etc”.

    I agree with Vincente that without unions most of the benefits and worker improvements mentioned above along with the child labor laws would be non-existent or very different from what they are today.

    However, I think unions are less relevant than they were a few decades ago. There are so many civilian and government watchdog organizations that it would be hard to imagine not having those rules.

    As a former union steward for CWA and later a manager that dealt with unions, I have never had a great deal of respect for people like Mr. Bill Camp and the peers he represents. I had/have a great deal of respect for the rank and file who are the ones that really take the brunt of the fallout between management and the union leaders. The union bosses never offered to pay my rent or car bills as strikes were a common occurrence at that time. They still received their pay as we walked the picket lines. The monetary gains made when the new contracts were settled were often offset by the time we weren’t being paid.

    To Mr. Camp’s credit at least he got off his duff and stood out there with the workers, a rare occasion.

    In closing, please, you would-be comedians and your union jokes, give it a rest, they are not funny spoken, and even less funny in print. You are showing your ignorance!

  193. Doug Paul Davis

    Darnell:

    I appreciate most of your comments, but in fairness to Bill Camp, this was not a rare occurrence for him to be directly involved.

    Those who say that unions are not relevant today, I’ve seen the work that my wife does on behalf of workers, many of whom would be SOL without union representation to fight for their rights. I think unions are just as relevant now than they were 50 years ago, if not more so. Could you imagine what worker wages and benefits would be without unions fighting for collective bargaining?

  194. Doug Paul Davis

    Darnell:

    I appreciate most of your comments, but in fairness to Bill Camp, this was not a rare occurrence for him to be directly involved.

    Those who say that unions are not relevant today, I’ve seen the work that my wife does on behalf of workers, many of whom would be SOL without union representation to fight for their rights. I think unions are just as relevant now than they were 50 years ago, if not more so. Could you imagine what worker wages and benefits would be without unions fighting for collective bargaining?

  195. Doug Paul Davis

    Darnell:

    I appreciate most of your comments, but in fairness to Bill Camp, this was not a rare occurrence for him to be directly involved.

    Those who say that unions are not relevant today, I’ve seen the work that my wife does on behalf of workers, many of whom would be SOL without union representation to fight for their rights. I think unions are just as relevant now than they were 50 years ago, if not more so. Could you imagine what worker wages and benefits would be without unions fighting for collective bargaining?

  196. Doug Paul Davis

    Darnell:

    I appreciate most of your comments, but in fairness to Bill Camp, this was not a rare occurrence for him to be directly involved.

    Those who say that unions are not relevant today, I’ve seen the work that my wife does on behalf of workers, many of whom would be SOL without union representation to fight for their rights. I think unions are just as relevant now than they were 50 years ago, if not more so. Could you imagine what worker wages and benefits would be without unions fighting for collective bargaining?

  197. darnell

    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt about the worthiness of unions. With your wife being actively involved you probably have facts to back that up. I am speaking from perception.

    As for Mr. Camp, I didn’t mean him specifically; I have never met or heard of the man. The union bosses I dealt with would not do what Bill did.

    You blog has gotten a lot of dialogue about the plight of the food service workers. If nothing else, that’s a good thing.

  198. darnell

    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt about the worthiness of unions. With your wife being actively involved you probably have facts to back that up. I am speaking from perception.

    As for Mr. Camp, I didn’t mean him specifically; I have never met or heard of the man. The union bosses I dealt with would not do what Bill did.

    You blog has gotten a lot of dialogue about the plight of the food service workers. If nothing else, that’s a good thing.

  199. darnell

    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt about the worthiness of unions. With your wife being actively involved you probably have facts to back that up. I am speaking from perception.

    As for Mr. Camp, I didn’t mean him specifically; I have never met or heard of the man. The union bosses I dealt with would not do what Bill did.

    You blog has gotten a lot of dialogue about the plight of the food service workers. If nothing else, that’s a good thing.

  200. darnell

    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt about the worthiness of unions. With your wife being actively involved you probably have facts to back that up. I am speaking from perception.

    As for Mr. Camp, I didn’t mean him specifically; I have never met or heard of the man. The union bosses I dealt with would not do what Bill did.

    You blog has gotten a lot of dialogue about the plight of the food service workers. If nothing else, that’s a good thing.

  201. Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald

    Very interesting dialog on the subject of labor. Some of which I agree with and some that I do not agree with…but that’s okay.

    First of all I need to say that Bill Camp is man of conviction and integrity. He is not some “big union boss” as some have mentioned. On the contrary he is elected by members of CLC (Central Labor Council)which is a council comprised of many labor unions from 6 counties – as DPD described in his labor article.

    Bill Camp has been arrested many times in his fight for fair treatment of workers and good working conditions.

    I don’t believe Bill Camp or others are attempting to take away any attention from the food service workers. In fact, he and others are attempting to bring outside attention to their struggle.

    In November of 2006 I found myself in a similar situation [perhaps I will write about it on the blog sometime soon in more detail].

    Here is a synopsis:

    Myself and some fellow co-workers along with dozens of other union employees and union members from all over the U.S. converged in Houston, TX at a moments notice. The reason, was to assist 5,300+ janitors that had been on strike for 4 weeks. They were attempting to form a union and get their first ever contract.

    Like Sodexho workers they worked for a 3rd party contractor and cleaned the offices of a multi-billion dollar corporation – J.P. Morgan. They were earning $20 a day and had no health benefits. BTW – Texas is a “right to work state.”

    We participated in civil disobedience which lead to the arrest of 46 of us. We were in jail over a three day period.

    It was in fact, news of our treatment by the Houston Police that forced negotiations – which had stalled – to resume. They used horses and excessive force against us even though we did not resist arrest at all. Our actions led to recognition of their union and a first ever contract. The contract came with substantial pay increases and benefits to the workers and their family members.

    Without the publicity of our protest and our treatment the pressure would not have mounted to settle. Therefore, publicity of such events as described here can be very important in helping the workers get what they deserve, such as university recognition, pay increase, and affordable health care.

    Members of the U.S. Senate and Congress as well as the NY Times and the LA Times just to name a few got involved and brought attention.

    As horrible as it was I would do it all over again knowing that I helped to improves the lives of over 5,300 workers. So when Bill Camp complains about treatment that he received he is not “whining” or complaining that he got arrested. He is bringing attention to the struggle for social justice and the need for change.

    I wholeheartedly respect Bill Camp and his selflessness.

  202. Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald

    Very interesting dialog on the subject of labor. Some of which I agree with and some that I do not agree with…but that’s okay.

    First of all I need to say that Bill Camp is man of conviction and integrity. He is not some “big union boss” as some have mentioned. On the contrary he is elected by members of CLC (Central Labor Council)which is a council comprised of many labor unions from 6 counties – as DPD described in his labor article.

    Bill Camp has been arrested many times in his fight for fair treatment of workers and good working conditions.

    I don’t believe Bill Camp or others are attempting to take away any attention from the food service workers. In fact, he and others are attempting to bring outside attention to their struggle.

    In November of 2006 I found myself in a similar situation [perhaps I will write about it on the blog sometime soon in more detail].

    Here is a synopsis:

    Myself and some fellow co-workers along with dozens of other union employees and union members from all over the U.S. converged in Houston, TX at a moments notice. The reason, was to assist 5,300+ janitors that had been on strike for 4 weeks. They were attempting to form a union and get their first ever contract.

    Like Sodexho workers they worked for a 3rd party contractor and cleaned the offices of a multi-billion dollar corporation – J.P. Morgan. They were earning $20 a day and had no health benefits. BTW – Texas is a “right to work state.”

    We participated in civil disobedience which lead to the arrest of 46 of us. We were in jail over a three day period.

    It was in fact, news of our treatment by the Houston Police that forced negotiations – which had stalled – to resume. They used horses and excessive force against us even though we did not resist arrest at all. Our actions led to recognition of their union and a first ever contract. The contract came with substantial pay increases and benefits to the workers and their family members.

    Without the publicity of our protest and our treatment the pressure would not have mounted to settle. Therefore, publicity of such events as described here can be very important in helping the workers get what they deserve, such as university recognition, pay increase, and affordable health care.

    Members of the U.S. Senate and Congress as well as the NY Times and the LA Times just to name a few got involved and brought attention.

    As horrible as it was I would do it all over again knowing that I helped to improves the lives of over 5,300 workers. So when Bill Camp complains about treatment that he received he is not “whining” or complaining that he got arrested. He is bringing attention to the struggle for social justice and the need for change.

    I wholeheartedly respect Bill Camp and his selflessness.

  203. Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald

    Very interesting dialog on the subject of labor. Some of which I agree with and some that I do not agree with…but that’s okay.

    First of all I need to say that Bill Camp is man of conviction and integrity. He is not some “big union boss” as some have mentioned. On the contrary he is elected by members of CLC (Central Labor Council)which is a council comprised of many labor unions from 6 counties – as DPD described in his labor article.

    Bill Camp has been arrested many times in his fight for fair treatment of workers and good working conditions.

    I don’t believe Bill Camp or others are attempting to take away any attention from the food service workers. In fact, he and others are attempting to bring outside attention to their struggle.

    In November of 2006 I found myself in a similar situation [perhaps I will write about it on the blog sometime soon in more detail].

    Here is a synopsis:

    Myself and some fellow co-workers along with dozens of other union employees and union members from all over the U.S. converged in Houston, TX at a moments notice. The reason, was to assist 5,300+ janitors that had been on strike for 4 weeks. They were attempting to form a union and get their first ever contract.

    Like Sodexho workers they worked for a 3rd party contractor and cleaned the offices of a multi-billion dollar corporation – J.P. Morgan. They were earning $20 a day and had no health benefits. BTW – Texas is a “right to work state.”

    We participated in civil disobedience which lead to the arrest of 46 of us. We were in jail over a three day period.

    It was in fact, news of our treatment by the Houston Police that forced negotiations – which had stalled – to resume. They used horses and excessive force against us even though we did not resist arrest at all. Our actions led to recognition of their union and a first ever contract. The contract came with substantial pay increases and benefits to the workers and their family members.

    Without the publicity of our protest and our treatment the pressure would not have mounted to settle. Therefore, publicity of such events as described here can be very important in helping the workers get what they deserve, such as university recognition, pay increase, and affordable health care.

    Members of the U.S. Senate and Congress as well as the NY Times and the LA Times just to name a few got involved and brought attention.

    As horrible as it was I would do it all over again knowing that I helped to improves the lives of over 5,300 workers. So when Bill Camp complains about treatment that he received he is not “whining” or complaining that he got arrested. He is bringing attention to the struggle for social justice and the need for change.

    I wholeheartedly respect Bill Camp and his selflessness.

  204. Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald

    Very interesting dialog on the subject of labor. Some of which I agree with and some that I do not agree with…but that’s okay.

    First of all I need to say that Bill Camp is man of conviction and integrity. He is not some “big union boss” as some have mentioned. On the contrary he is elected by members of CLC (Central Labor Council)which is a council comprised of many labor unions from 6 counties – as DPD described in his labor article.

    Bill Camp has been arrested many times in his fight for fair treatment of workers and good working conditions.

    I don’t believe Bill Camp or others are attempting to take away any attention from the food service workers. In fact, he and others are attempting to bring outside attention to their struggle.

    In November of 2006 I found myself in a similar situation [perhaps I will write about it on the blog sometime soon in more detail].

    Here is a synopsis:

    Myself and some fellow co-workers along with dozens of other union employees and union members from all over the U.S. converged in Houston, TX at a moments notice. The reason, was to assist 5,300+ janitors that had been on strike for 4 weeks. They were attempting to form a union and get their first ever contract.

    Like Sodexho workers they worked for a 3rd party contractor and cleaned the offices of a multi-billion dollar corporation – J.P. Morgan. They were earning $20 a day and had no health benefits. BTW – Texas is a “right to work state.”

    We participated in civil disobedience which lead to the arrest of 46 of us. We were in jail over a three day period.

    It was in fact, news of our treatment by the Houston Police that forced negotiations – which had stalled – to resume. They used horses and excessive force against us even though we did not resist arrest at all. Our actions led to recognition of their union and a first ever contract. The contract came with substantial pay increases and benefits to the workers and their family members.

    Without the publicity of our protest and our treatment the pressure would not have mounted to settle. Therefore, publicity of such events as described here can be very important in helping the workers get what they deserve, such as university recognition, pay increase, and affordable health care.

    Members of the U.S. Senate and Congress as well as the NY Times and the LA Times just to name a few got involved and brought attention.

    As horrible as it was I would do it all over again knowing that I helped to improves the lives of over 5,300 workers. So when Bill Camp complains about treatment that he received he is not “whining” or complaining that he got arrested. He is bringing attention to the struggle for social justice and the need for change.

    I wholeheartedly respect Bill Camp and his selflessness.

  205. Murky Thoughts

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles.

    Or trolling, not to point a finger at anybody in particular. When people talk about a notoriously polarizing issue, it’s easy to reduce the discussion to hotheaded remarks and conflicts that take on lives of their own and have little to do with the topic. When someone seems drunk or downright trying to get your goat, I think the odds that you’re right are too high–online, about hot topics–to assume otherwise. Nobody knows you’re a dog on the ‘Net, but it’s easy to discern jerky behavior. I’ve never moderated an online discussion group myself, and though I have a sense it’s a little like biological control measures in Australia (unanticipated results worse than the situation you were trying to fix), let me to offer the obvious if quasi-illiberal suggestion to Doug that he post a civility policy and deletes comments that are unnecessarily jerky. I know blog hosts routinely burn out over this kind of thing.

  206. Murky Thoughts

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles.

    Or trolling, not to point a finger at anybody in particular. When people talk about a notoriously polarizing issue, it’s easy to reduce the discussion to hotheaded remarks and conflicts that take on lives of their own and have little to do with the topic. When someone seems drunk or downright trying to get your goat, I think the odds that you’re right are too high–online, about hot topics–to assume otherwise. Nobody knows you’re a dog on the ‘Net, but it’s easy to discern jerky behavior. I’ve never moderated an online discussion group myself, and though I have a sense it’s a little like biological control measures in Australia (unanticipated results worse than the situation you were trying to fix), let me to offer the obvious if quasi-illiberal suggestion to Doug that he post a civility policy and deletes comments that are unnecessarily jerky. I know blog hosts routinely burn out over this kind of thing.

  207. Murky Thoughts

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles.

    Or trolling, not to point a finger at anybody in particular. When people talk about a notoriously polarizing issue, it’s easy to reduce the discussion to hotheaded remarks and conflicts that take on lives of their own and have little to do with the topic. When someone seems drunk or downright trying to get your goat, I think the odds that you’re right are too high–online, about hot topics–to assume otherwise. Nobody knows you’re a dog on the ‘Net, but it’s easy to discern jerky behavior. I’ve never moderated an online discussion group myself, and though I have a sense it’s a little like biological control measures in Australia (unanticipated results worse than the situation you were trying to fix), let me to offer the obvious if quasi-illiberal suggestion to Doug that he post a civility policy and deletes comments that are unnecessarily jerky. I know blog hosts routinely burn out over this kind of thing.

  208. Murky Thoughts

    This demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of labor struggles.

    Or trolling, not to point a finger at anybody in particular. When people talk about a notoriously polarizing issue, it’s easy to reduce the discussion to hotheaded remarks and conflicts that take on lives of their own and have little to do with the topic. When someone seems drunk or downright trying to get your goat, I think the odds that you’re right are too high–online, about hot topics–to assume otherwise. Nobody knows you’re a dog on the ‘Net, but it’s easy to discern jerky behavior. I’ve never moderated an online discussion group myself, and though I have a sense it’s a little like biological control measures in Australia (unanticipated results worse than the situation you were trying to fix), let me to offer the obvious if quasi-illiberal suggestion to Doug that he post a civility policy and deletes comments that are unnecessarily jerky. I know blog hosts routinely burn out over this kind of thing.

  209. Anonymous

    Unions may have helped in the past, but they just suck now. That is all there is to it. They have turned into money grubbing business men in suits. Sad really.

  210. Anonymous

    Unions may have helped in the past, but they just suck now. That is all there is to it. They have turned into money grubbing business men in suits. Sad really.

  211. Anonymous

    Unions may have helped in the past, but they just suck now. That is all there is to it. They have turned into money grubbing business men in suits. Sad really.

  212. Anonymous

    Unions may have helped in the past, but they just suck now. That is all there is to it. They have turned into money grubbing business men in suits. Sad really.

  213. Doug Paul Davis

    What’s really sad is how poorly people are informed about what unions do and how much they do for their membership. I’d invite you to spend a day with a labor rep and I think you would have a very different viewpoint what unions actually do.

  214. Doug Paul Davis

    What’s really sad is how poorly people are informed about what unions do and how much they do for their membership. I’d invite you to spend a day with a labor rep and I think you would have a very different viewpoint what unions actually do.

  215. Doug Paul Davis

    What’s really sad is how poorly people are informed about what unions do and how much they do for their membership. I’d invite you to spend a day with a labor rep and I think you would have a very different viewpoint what unions actually do.

  216. Doug Paul Davis

    What’s really sad is how poorly people are informed about what unions do and how much they do for their membership. I’d invite you to spend a day with a labor rep and I think you would have a very different viewpoint what unions actually do.

  217. Anonymous

    The sad thing is, I work in a Union and see on a daily basis how usless we are to our members. I have more contact with members than Labor Reps do, and I see more than anyone else, how we are just robbing them of money they work hard to earn. All we do is raise our rates when they get a raise. It impossible for them to really appreciate the union when we only charge more for doing our job. It doesnt take a day with labor reps to show me how many problems we cause. Maybe you should hang around a union more often to see just the amount of people that are worse off being part of the union. It is only right to encourage all the loop holes involved with unions to help them out. They actually walk away much happier and better off knowing how they can save money instead of spending on a union that uses it for personal gain.

  218. Anonymous

    The sad thing is, I work in a Union and see on a daily basis how usless we are to our members. I have more contact with members than Labor Reps do, and I see more than anyone else, how we are just robbing them of money they work hard to earn. All we do is raise our rates when they get a raise. It impossible for them to really appreciate the union when we only charge more for doing our job. It doesnt take a day with labor reps to show me how many problems we cause. Maybe you should hang around a union more often to see just the amount of people that are worse off being part of the union. It is only right to encourage all the loop holes involved with unions to help them out. They actually walk away much happier and better off knowing how they can save money instead of spending on a union that uses it for personal gain.

  219. Anonymous

    The sad thing is, I work in a Union and see on a daily basis how usless we are to our members. I have more contact with members than Labor Reps do, and I see more than anyone else, how we are just robbing them of money they work hard to earn. All we do is raise our rates when they get a raise. It impossible for them to really appreciate the union when we only charge more for doing our job. It doesnt take a day with labor reps to show me how many problems we cause. Maybe you should hang around a union more often to see just the amount of people that are worse off being part of the union. It is only right to encourage all the loop holes involved with unions to help them out. They actually walk away much happier and better off knowing how they can save money instead of spending on a union that uses it for personal gain.

  220. Anonymous

    The sad thing is, I work in a Union and see on a daily basis how usless we are to our members. I have more contact with members than Labor Reps do, and I see more than anyone else, how we are just robbing them of money they work hard to earn. All we do is raise our rates when they get a raise. It impossible for them to really appreciate the union when we only charge more for doing our job. It doesnt take a day with labor reps to show me how many problems we cause. Maybe you should hang around a union more often to see just the amount of people that are worse off being part of the union. It is only right to encourage all the loop holes involved with unions to help them out. They actually walk away much happier and better off knowing how they can save money instead of spending on a union that uses it for personal gain.

  221. Anonymous

    What i want to know is why this article seems to focus on a whiney old man who can’t handle what he asked for, and not the supposed labor problems they were there for.

    They sure got a lot of attention…on Bill that is. Poor planning for a false sense of what was actually going on at UCD

  222. Anonymous

    What i want to know is why this article seems to focus on a whiney old man who can’t handle what he asked for, and not the supposed labor problems they were there for.

    They sure got a lot of attention…on Bill that is. Poor planning for a false sense of what was actually going on at UCD

  223. Anonymous

    What i want to know is why this article seems to focus on a whiney old man who can’t handle what he asked for, and not the supposed labor problems they were there for.

    They sure got a lot of attention…on Bill that is. Poor planning for a false sense of what was actually going on at UCD

  224. Anonymous

    What i want to know is why this article seems to focus on a whiney old man who can’t handle what he asked for, and not the supposed labor problems they were there for.

    They sure got a lot of attention…on Bill that is. Poor planning for a false sense of what was actually going on at UCD

  225. Anonymous

    Look at the title. How can you guys trick yourselves into thinking this article wanted to focus on what was happening at UCD? This is not about UCD, it’s about this old guy complaining about how he was treated after he asked for it.

  226. Anonymous

    Look at the title. How can you guys trick yourselves into thinking this article wanted to focus on what was happening at UCD? This is not about UCD, it’s about this old guy complaining about how he was treated after he asked for it.

  227. Anonymous

    Look at the title. How can you guys trick yourselves into thinking this article wanted to focus on what was happening at UCD? This is not about UCD, it’s about this old guy complaining about how he was treated after he asked for it.

  228. Anonymous

    Look at the title. How can you guys trick yourselves into thinking this article wanted to focus on what was happening at UCD? This is not about UCD, it’s about this old guy complaining about how he was treated after he asked for it.

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