First School Board Debate Draws Sharp Contrasts on Valley Oak and Truancy Policies

The first school board candidates debate of the 2007 Election cycle took place at Davis High School. It was organized by the Davis High Democrats and Students for Freedom. The debate was moderated by a representative from each of the sponsoring clubs. There were about 25 students in attendance, a very good showing for just the second non-full week of classes. Not only was it heavily attended by students, but the questions, for the most part written down on placards were also submitted by students.

So you might think there would be odd-ball questions under this format, but judging from the questions that the moderators asked, the questions were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone like myself.

Frankly there were some issues that all of the candidates brought up on a continual basis. For example, all the candidates want to forge a consensus and work at collaboration. They want to bring all sides together and talk. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but given the fact that all sides want to do it, it does not seem to draw much distinction between the candidates.

The general consensus among several of the candidates was that these were all committed individuals running for the school board who wanted to improve and serve our schools. There seemed to be mutual respect within the group of candidates. Will this feeling of good will continue or will tensions rise at some point, hard to know.

All of the candidates also spoke to the issue of the achievement gap in general and non-specific terms, to the point where one of the follow up questions finally asked what specifically they would do about it. Even here, the answers did not diverge greatly. Joe Spector talked about this as an issue “about helping those who don’t have access to education not about skin or minority status.” The key to him was early intervention, broadening access to programs for all students and a mentoring program.

Bob Schelen probably gave the most divergent answer using some of the studies to argue that the achievement gap is not about economics but rather it is about race. He said no one knows just why this is the case but his goal is to follow through on the achievement gap task force’s recommendations particularly in looking to hire people of color and from diverse ethnicities. And if they find that people of color do not want to come to Davis and teach, then it is the board’s responsibility to change that.

Susan Lovenburg argued that the achievement gap exists before students even start school, therefore early intervention is a key. She mentioned the need to continue community discussions now to empower teachers and administrators to work together collaboratively to find out what is working well and what isn’t working well.

Finally, Richard Harris talked about the unconscious bias training and also the Japanese Lesson Study training. He liked the Japanese model because he felt it got teachers out of teaching in “silos” and into the community. The idea here is to bring in parents and having them watch the teachers teach. (Here’s probably a better explanation of Japanese Lesson Study than I can provide).

The two strongest areas of disagreement occurred during discussions of the closing of Valley Oak and the relationship between the High School and Davis Police, particularly the new practice of truancy sweeps that is about to become the biggest issue in this entire community.

On Valley Oak, if that is your main issue, there is a clear choice. If you believe that Valley Oak needed to be closed Susan Lovenburg and Richard Harris believe as you do. If you were opposed to the closing, the Bob Schelen and Joe Spector are on your side.

Susan Lovenburg spoke about the process of the Best Uses of School Task Force and how she went from supporting the nine campus option to supporting the closure of Valley Oak. According to her it was not for financial reasons but rather because it was the “educationally best decision for those students at valley oak.” Leaving Valley Oak open would have created a school that was over 50 percent title one and she did not think this was the way to support the students remaining at Valley Oak.

For Richard Harris, it “really came down to money.” He supports the decision based on declining enrollment. He said “it’s done, that’s the decision and we’re moving forward.”

Joe Spector on the other hand, “feels really lousy about it.” He said he had worked in and around Valley Oak for a number of years, felt it was extremely effective school. He used numbers on the chalk board to suggest that declining enrollment is a more tenuous assumption by demonstrating the increase in students in 06-07 compared to 05-06. He also strongly supports the charter and believes it is a way that the district can bring in students.

Bob Schelen pointedly called “closing of valley oak a mistake.” He said it is the only majority-minority school in our district. He said, this “sends the wrong message to close only school with majority-minority school in district.” He disagreed with Susan Lovenburg that having a majority title one school was a bad thing. He believes this is the only school in the core area and therefore with talk about infill development, this could actually be an area of growth. With the school closed he believes a Charter School is a great opportunity to keep Valley Oak open and he is looking at alternative types of programs to be housed there as a result.

The other major issue of concern for the students that brought about sharp differences is the newly emerging issue of the increased use of police presence to insure that kids are attending school. The students believed that they are being pulled over if it looks like they are out of class even if they have a legitimate reason to be out of class. There was much discussion about this last night at the school board meeting and this will be a major story that we will be covering heavily in the next several days.

In the meantime, the school board candidates spoke on the issue. Richard Harris admitted that he did not know a lot about it but said that the law is the law and he did not think that police were doing this as a punitive matter. He also suggested that he is in favor of a lot of responsiblity until you prove you cannot handle it.

Joe Spector has talked recently with the police chief and assistant police chief about it in trying to understand their perspective on this issue. He said that the School Resource Officer (who some of the students spoke very highly of) was here not for enforcement but for support and he would rather someone like the School Resource Officer than a uniformed officer play a large part in this.

According to Bob Schelen there needs to be good relationships between the school district and the police department. He thinks there are better uses of human resources officer than have truancy sweep. ADA is reason for truancy sweep as way to get money for ADA program. But a truancy sweep can harm relationship between student and police department and make it a combative relationship (something echoes by the student representative on the board last night). Truancy sweep breaks down trust and relations. Apprehensive about truancy sweeps and city police presence on campus.

Finally Susan Lovenburg said this is a new topic for our community. And pointed out this would be discussed at the board meeting last night. This part of planning for declining enrollment, dollar to support educational programs and close achievement gap. She pointed out that there was nearly $500,000 lost to missed classes at the high school alone last year. That said, what was demonstrated last night at the high school PTA meeting, only school administrators would have access to the new information provided in the truancy sweeps. Parent concerns expressed was that this was too punitive. Need to have that discussion about this policy if this is what we want to do. Said “there is a lot of rumor about this, let’s see what happens.”

Two other questions that I will briefly mention here, there was a question about support for a confidential teen clinic on class. Bob Schelen was the only one really supportive of this. Both Joe Spector and Susan Lovenburg suggested this was outside of the mandate of schools. Richard Harris said he was in favor of information but not services on the campus and felt there were plenty of off-campus resources.

Then Richard Harris was pointedly asked whether he would run for higher office and how he would fund his green school plan which he again laid out in some detail. Mr. Harris told people that he is not planning to run for higher office and was forceful about it. He felt there were a number of ways to fund the green school plan which he ultimately thinks will save a large amount of money. Specifically he suggested capital facility money to purchase solar panels that will eventually save the district money.

Joe Spector said he had no plans to run for other officer. Bob Schelen said it would be disingenous to say, if the opportunity presented itself, that he wouldn’t consider running for other offices. He did not plan to at this time. That said, you never know what is going to happen. He never knew he would run for school board either. Susan Lovenburg said six months ago she had no plans to run for school board. However, as she got involved in volunteer activities she developed a passion. Things change and she wanted people on the school board who reflected her values. She said she has no plans to do more than that, but also that she had not had plans to do this.

Overall a good debate and good questions from the students who were very attentive. As I suggest, the truancy issue is going to be a huge one coming in the next few days. In fairness, no one knew a lot about this issue even at the current school board level, however it is informative to see the initial reactions of the candidates involved.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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168 Comments

  1. davisite

    This election will be won by those whose supporters are willing to work for their election. For ALL of Davis’ kids, let’s get up out of our TV chairs, canvass our precincts and talk to our neighbors in support of Joe Spector and Bob Schelen.

  2. davisite

    This election will be won by those whose supporters are willing to work for their election. For ALL of Davis’ kids, let’s get up out of our TV chairs, canvass our precincts and talk to our neighbors in support of Joe Spector and Bob Schelen.

  3. davisite

    This election will be won by those whose supporters are willing to work for their election. For ALL of Davis’ kids, let’s get up out of our TV chairs, canvass our precincts and talk to our neighbors in support of Joe Spector and Bob Schelen.

  4. davisite

    This election will be won by those whose supporters are willing to work for their election. For ALL of Davis’ kids, let’s get up out of our TV chairs, canvass our precincts and talk to our neighbors in support of Joe Spector and Bob Schelen.

  5. o.w. holmes junior high english teacher

    “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone like myself.

    Myself is a reflexive pronoun. It is used when the subject of a sentence is acting on the object: “I pinched myself” or “She took care of herself.”

    In the sentence above, you should replace myself with I, the subject of the implied clause: “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone (who is) like I (am).”

    Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

  6. o.w. holmes junior high englis

    “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone like myself.

    Myself is a reflexive pronoun. It is used when the subject of a sentence is acting on the object: “I pinched myself” or “She took care of herself.”

    In the sentence above, you should replace myself with I, the subject of the implied clause: “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone (who is) like I (am).”

    Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

  7. o.w. holmes junior high englis

    “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone like myself.

    Myself is a reflexive pronoun. It is used when the subject of a sentence is acting on the object: “I pinched myself” or “She took care of herself.”

    In the sentence above, you should replace myself with I, the subject of the implied clause: “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone (who is) like I (am).”

    Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

  8. o.w. holmes junior high englis

    “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone like myself.

    Myself is a reflexive pronoun. It is used when the subject of a sentence is acting on the object: “I pinched myself” or “She took care of herself.”

    In the sentence above, you should replace myself with I, the subject of the implied clause: “The questions that the moderators asked were fairly standard and in fact not completely different from those asked by someone (who is) like I (am).”

    Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

  9. Anonymous

    Thanks for covering this. Couple comments: “heavily attended” is 25 students? I would say that is poor.
    As far as the police becoming involved in truancy, I believe the schools should do more themselves. We had an experience with a truant child, got many automated calls on our answering machine, went to the school repeatedly ourselves to bring it to their attention, and they seemed very overwhelmed and unable to do anything proactively. I think that could be improved dramatically before resorting to police stopping kids during the school day hours. Again thanks!

  10. Anonymous

    Thanks for covering this. Couple comments: “heavily attended” is 25 students? I would say that is poor.
    As far as the police becoming involved in truancy, I believe the schools should do more themselves. We had an experience with a truant child, got many automated calls on our answering machine, went to the school repeatedly ourselves to bring it to their attention, and they seemed very overwhelmed and unable to do anything proactively. I think that could be improved dramatically before resorting to police stopping kids during the school day hours. Again thanks!

  11. Anonymous

    Thanks for covering this. Couple comments: “heavily attended” is 25 students? I would say that is poor.
    As far as the police becoming involved in truancy, I believe the schools should do more themselves. We had an experience with a truant child, got many automated calls on our answering machine, went to the school repeatedly ourselves to bring it to their attention, and they seemed very overwhelmed and unable to do anything proactively. I think that could be improved dramatically before resorting to police stopping kids during the school day hours. Again thanks!

  12. Anonymous

    Thanks for covering this. Couple comments: “heavily attended” is 25 students? I would say that is poor.
    As far as the police becoming involved in truancy, I believe the schools should do more themselves. We had an experience with a truant child, got many automated calls on our answering machine, went to the school repeatedly ourselves to bring it to their attention, and they seemed very overwhelmed and unable to do anything proactively. I think that could be improved dramatically before resorting to police stopping kids during the school day hours. Again thanks!

  13. Anonymous

    Only one wants to provide confidential health services to teens at the high school. How primitive!
    Of course Davis kids don’t need these services because they don’t have sex and are not at risk for STD’s.

    If this is the mood in Davis its no wonder that teen birth rates are higher here then in the rest of the industrialized nations.

  14. Anonymous

    Only one wants to provide confidential health services to teens at the high school. How primitive!
    Of course Davis kids don’t need these services because they don’t have sex and are not at risk for STD’s.

    If this is the mood in Davis its no wonder that teen birth rates are higher here then in the rest of the industrialized nations.

  15. Anonymous

    Only one wants to provide confidential health services to teens at the high school. How primitive!
    Of course Davis kids don’t need these services because they don’t have sex and are not at risk for STD’s.

    If this is the mood in Davis its no wonder that teen birth rates are higher here then in the rest of the industrialized nations.

  16. Anonymous

    Only one wants to provide confidential health services to teens at the high school. How primitive!
    Of course Davis kids don’t need these services because they don’t have sex and are not at risk for STD’s.

    If this is the mood in Davis its no wonder that teen birth rates are higher here then in the rest of the industrialized nations.

  17. Anonymous

    It would be great if the District was able to provide health services, but in the current fiscally tight environment the resources may not be available for the District to pay for it. If the District could forge a partnership with Planned Parenthood or the county health department so that District resources weren’t used, perhaps health care could be provided.

    Presumably they still would need the District to provide space, etc., however, and perhaps clerical assistance.

    If Measure Q fails, there will be all the less money for any kinds of expanded services.

  18. Anonymous

    It would be great if the District was able to provide health services, but in the current fiscally tight environment the resources may not be available for the District to pay for it. If the District could forge a partnership with Planned Parenthood or the county health department so that District resources weren’t used, perhaps health care could be provided.

    Presumably they still would need the District to provide space, etc., however, and perhaps clerical assistance.

    If Measure Q fails, there will be all the less money for any kinds of expanded services.

  19. Anonymous

    It would be great if the District was able to provide health services, but in the current fiscally tight environment the resources may not be available for the District to pay for it. If the District could forge a partnership with Planned Parenthood or the county health department so that District resources weren’t used, perhaps health care could be provided.

    Presumably they still would need the District to provide space, etc., however, and perhaps clerical assistance.

    If Measure Q fails, there will be all the less money for any kinds of expanded services.

  20. Anonymous

    It would be great if the District was able to provide health services, but in the current fiscally tight environment the resources may not be available for the District to pay for it. If the District could forge a partnership with Planned Parenthood or the county health department so that District resources weren’t used, perhaps health care could be provided.

    Presumably they still would need the District to provide space, etc., however, and perhaps clerical assistance.

    If Measure Q fails, there will be all the less money for any kinds of expanded services.

  21. Anonymous

    I would like to see Davis High School take a lot more action on unexcused absences (the amount of action DHS currently takes is close to zero) before foisting the responsibility off on the police.

    I believe Susan Lovenburg’s contention that she supported closure of VO based on high Title I status is disingenuous. My recollection is that her earlier comments about reason for supporting closure were based on financial impact on the rest of the district, not concern about VO kids.

  22. Youth Observer

    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs. I’m quite surprised at the number of kids with drug and alcohol problems. Even those who manage to maintain good grades.

    I hope the new Sup. addresses this problem since the last one failed to those who are still in positions of power fail to do much about it.

    It’s time to wake up.

  23. Anonymous

    I would like to see Davis High School take a lot more action on unexcused absences (the amount of action DHS currently takes is close to zero) before foisting the responsibility off on the police.

    I believe Susan Lovenburg’s contention that she supported closure of VO based on high Title I status is disingenuous. My recollection is that her earlier comments about reason for supporting closure were based on financial impact on the rest of the district, not concern about VO kids.

  24. Youth Observer

    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs. I’m quite surprised at the number of kids with drug and alcohol problems. Even those who manage to maintain good grades.

    I hope the new Sup. addresses this problem since the last one failed to those who are still in positions of power fail to do much about it.

    It’s time to wake up.

  25. Anonymous

    I would like to see Davis High School take a lot more action on unexcused absences (the amount of action DHS currently takes is close to zero) before foisting the responsibility off on the police.

    I believe Susan Lovenburg’s contention that she supported closure of VO based on high Title I status is disingenuous. My recollection is that her earlier comments about reason for supporting closure were based on financial impact on the rest of the district, not concern about VO kids.

  26. Youth Observer

    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs. I’m quite surprised at the number of kids with drug and alcohol problems. Even those who manage to maintain good grades.

    I hope the new Sup. addresses this problem since the last one failed to those who are still in positions of power fail to do much about it.

    It’s time to wake up.

  27. Anonymous

    I would like to see Davis High School take a lot more action on unexcused absences (the amount of action DHS currently takes is close to zero) before foisting the responsibility off on the police.

    I believe Susan Lovenburg’s contention that she supported closure of VO based on high Title I status is disingenuous. My recollection is that her earlier comments about reason for supporting closure were based on financial impact on the rest of the district, not concern about VO kids.

  28. Youth Observer

    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs. I’m quite surprised at the number of kids with drug and alcohol problems. Even those who manage to maintain good grades.

    I hope the new Sup. addresses this problem since the last one failed to those who are still in positions of power fail to do much about it.

    It’s time to wake up.

  29. Anonymous

    o.w. holmes junior high english teacher wrote:
    “Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

    Thanks for writing us your observations as to the weblogger’s awkward grammar; your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers plowing through this voluminous and yet addictingly informative weblog.

  30. Anonymous

    o.w. holmes junior high english teacher wrote:
    “Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

    Thanks for writing us your observations as to the weblogger’s awkward grammar; your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers plowing through this voluminous and yet addictingly informative weblog.

  31. Anonymous

    o.w. holmes junior high english teacher wrote:
    “Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

    Thanks for writing us your observations as to the weblogger’s awkward grammar; your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers plowing through this voluminous and yet addictingly informative weblog.

  32. Anonymous

    o.w. holmes junior high english teacher wrote:
    “Your sentence structure is still awkward. I would change it to this: “The questions the moderators asked were standard, no different from ones I would have asked.”

    Thanks for writing us your observations as to the weblogger’s awkward grammar; your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers plowing through this voluminous and yet addictingly informative weblog.

  33. holmes english teacher

    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

  34. holmes english teacher

    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

  35. holmes english teacher

    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

  36. holmes english teacher

    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

  37. Not so anal blogger

    Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”

    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.

    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.

    Your anal retentiveness with blog misspellings is a bit much. Stick to the issue at hand.

  38. Not so anal blogger

    Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”

    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.

    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.

    Your anal retentiveness with blog misspellings is a bit much. Stick to the issue at hand.

  39. Not so anal blogger

    Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”

    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.

    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.

    Your anal retentiveness with blog misspellings is a bit much. Stick to the issue at hand.

  40. Not so anal blogger

    Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”

    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.

    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.

    Your anal retentiveness with blog misspellings is a bit much. Stick to the issue at hand.

  41. Anonymous

    A commenter with a not very nice pseudonym (this weblog gets complicated enough without dragging Freudian psychology into the debate)wrote:
    “Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”
    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.
    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.”

    The English teacher was just doing his/her job, making the effort to simply objectively point out the People’s Vanguard articles are harder to read/decipher than they need to be sometimes. (I know a few English teachers, and I know they get up pretty early in the morning to correct/grade a lot more words than are found in a single Vanguard article)
    Maybe all Doug Paul Davis really need do is hire a copyeditor?
    PS: Freudian psychology aside, it wasn’t a misspelling that was at issue but a mistake in grammar.

  42. Anonymous

    A commenter with a not very nice pseudonym (this weblog gets complicated enough without dragging Freudian psychology into the debate)wrote:
    “Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”
    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.
    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.”

    The English teacher was just doing his/her job, making the effort to simply objectively point out the People’s Vanguard articles are harder to read/decipher than they need to be sometimes. (I know a few English teachers, and I know they get up pretty early in the morning to correct/grade a lot more words than are found in a single Vanguard article)
    Maybe all Doug Paul Davis really need do is hire a copyeditor?
    PS: Freudian psychology aside, it wasn’t a misspelling that was at issue but a mistake in grammar.

  43. Anonymous

    A commenter with a not very nice pseudonym (this weblog gets complicated enough without dragging Freudian psychology into the debate)wrote:
    “Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”
    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.
    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.”

    The English teacher was just doing his/her job, making the effort to simply objectively point out the People’s Vanguard articles are harder to read/decipher than they need to be sometimes. (I know a few English teachers, and I know they get up pretty early in the morning to correct/grade a lot more words than are found in a single Vanguard article)
    Maybe all Doug Paul Davis really need do is hire a copyeditor?
    PS: Freudian psychology aside, it wasn’t a misspelling that was at issue but a mistake in grammar.

  44. Anonymous

    A commenter with a not very nice pseudonym (this weblog gets complicated enough without dragging Freudian psychology into the debate)wrote:
    “Holmes English teacher, the sentence should read: “start your own English grammar blog.”
    Try writing an article from start to finish every morning at 5:00 a.m. the way DPD does.
    He does a great job and corrects most misspellings by late morning. At least, that is what I’ve noticed.”

    The English teacher was just doing his/her job, making the effort to simply objectively point out the People’s Vanguard articles are harder to read/decipher than they need to be sometimes. (I know a few English teachers, and I know they get up pretty early in the morning to correct/grade a lot more words than are found in a single Vanguard article)
    Maybe all Doug Paul Davis really need do is hire a copyeditor?
    PS: Freudian psychology aside, it wasn’t a misspelling that was at issue but a mistake in grammar.

  45. Anonymous

    While you guys are discussing grammar, you missed the post by “youthful observer.”

    It’s really time to start listening to our young people, folks. There are problems here in Davis and if we could just take the time to listen, then we could offer more appropriate help.

    I could not believe after the youth representative to the school board described in detail the emotional impact that the new policies were having on the student body how the two school administrators pretty much dismissed her concerns. They were rude and people have taken note of this.

    Without the kids, there wouldn’t be jobs for these people. Someone needs to give them their own wake up call.

  46. Anonymous

    While you guys are discussing grammar, you missed the post by “youthful observer.”

    It’s really time to start listening to our young people, folks. There are problems here in Davis and if we could just take the time to listen, then we could offer more appropriate help.

    I could not believe after the youth representative to the school board described in detail the emotional impact that the new policies were having on the student body how the two school administrators pretty much dismissed her concerns. They were rude and people have taken note of this.

    Without the kids, there wouldn’t be jobs for these people. Someone needs to give them their own wake up call.

  47. Anonymous

    While you guys are discussing grammar, you missed the post by “youthful observer.”

    It’s really time to start listening to our young people, folks. There are problems here in Davis and if we could just take the time to listen, then we could offer more appropriate help.

    I could not believe after the youth representative to the school board described in detail the emotional impact that the new policies were having on the student body how the two school administrators pretty much dismissed her concerns. They were rude and people have taken note of this.

    Without the kids, there wouldn’t be jobs for these people. Someone needs to give them their own wake up call.

  48. Anonymous

    While you guys are discussing grammar, you missed the post by “youthful observer.”

    It’s really time to start listening to our young people, folks. There are problems here in Davis and if we could just take the time to listen, then we could offer more appropriate help.

    I could not believe after the youth representative to the school board described in detail the emotional impact that the new policies were having on the student body how the two school administrators pretty much dismissed her concerns. They were rude and people have taken note of this.

    Without the kids, there wouldn’t be jobs for these people. Someone needs to give them their own wake up call.

  49. Anonymous

    Anonymous said…
    He should probablee higher a copie editur…but hes doin a fairlee goode job and weir glahd he has the blogg.

    9/7/07 9:57 PM
    Mr. Greenwald could do better by his readers, show a little more consideration; at least, whatever else its well-documented faults, the Davis Enterprise has a copyeditor on staff. That’s just Journalism 101.

  50. Anonymous

    Anonymous said…
    He should probablee higher a copie editur…but hes doin a fairlee goode job and weir glahd he has the blogg.

    9/7/07 9:57 PM
    Mr. Greenwald could do better by his readers, show a little more consideration; at least, whatever else its well-documented faults, the Davis Enterprise has a copyeditor on staff. That’s just Journalism 101.

  51. Anonymous

    Anonymous said…
    He should probablee higher a copie editur…but hes doin a fairlee goode job and weir glahd he has the blogg.

    9/7/07 9:57 PM
    Mr. Greenwald could do better by his readers, show a little more consideration; at least, whatever else its well-documented faults, the Davis Enterprise has a copyeditor on staff. That’s just Journalism 101.

  52. Anonymous

    Anonymous said…
    He should probablee higher a copie editur…but hes doin a fairlee goode job and weir glahd he has the blogg.

    9/7/07 9:57 PM
    Mr. Greenwald could do better by his readers, show a little more consideration; at least, whatever else its well-documented faults, the Davis Enterprise has a copyeditor on staff. That’s just Journalism 101.

  53. Anonymous

    Youth Observer said…
    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs.

    Dear Youthful Observer,
    What exactly would you recommend the new School Board do on the behalf of students in the areas of concern you mention?

  54. Anonymous

    Youth Observer said…
    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs.

    Dear Youthful Observer,
    What exactly would you recommend the new School Board do on the behalf of students in the areas of concern you mention?

  55. Anonymous

    Youth Observer said…
    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs.

    Dear Youthful Observer,
    What exactly would you recommend the new School Board do on the behalf of students in the areas of concern you mention?

  56. Anonymous

    Youth Observer said…
    We have so many great kids in the Davis school system. It’s a shame that many administrators choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend that we don’t have certain problems.

    It’s the reason that we have teen pregnancies and a lot of kids who resort to alcohol and drugs.

    Dear Youthful Observer,
    What exactly would you recommend the new School Board do on the behalf of students in the areas of concern you mention?

  57. Anonymous

    holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take…

  58. Anonymous

    holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take…

  59. Anonymous

    holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take…

  60. Anonymous

    holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take…

  61. Anonymous

    “””holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take… “””

    OMG..wl u plez stop this pissing match about grammar. Hire a copy editor? pu-leez!

  62. Anonymous

    “””holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take… “””

    OMG..wl u plez stop this pissing match about grammar. Hire a copy editor? pu-leez!

  63. Anonymous

    “””holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take… “””

    OMG..wl u plez stop this pissing match about grammar. Hire a copy editor? pu-leez!

  64. Anonymous

    “””holmes english teacher said…
    Your sentence is easier on and considerate of we readers.

    That should be: “Your sentence is easier on and considerate of us (who are your) readers.”

    Better still: “Your sentence is considerate of your readers.”

    Excellent call: Sometimes the rules of grammar get broken in the interests of rhythm, rhyme and songwriting…I was thinking of
    “We three kings of Orient are…”
    As for “your readers…” that suggests an unlevel playing field of communication; I like “us readers” better because of the suggestion of an equal give-and-take… “””

    OMG..wl u plez stop this pissing match about grammar. Hire a copy editor? pu-leez!

  65. Anonymous

    Grammar debates, what fun. Paying rigorous attention to grammar can only improve the clarity and precision of one’s thinking. The “us” vs. “we” conundrum is something I’d not thought of in years!
    But here’s a stumper for the Holmes English teacher concerning subjective vs. objective cases of pronouns:
    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

  66. Anonymous

    Grammar debates, what fun. Paying rigorous attention to grammar can only improve the clarity and precision of one’s thinking. The “us” vs. “we” conundrum is something I’d not thought of in years!
    But here’s a stumper for the Holmes English teacher concerning subjective vs. objective cases of pronouns:
    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

  67. Anonymous

    Grammar debates, what fun. Paying rigorous attention to grammar can only improve the clarity and precision of one’s thinking. The “us” vs. “we” conundrum is something I’d not thought of in years!
    But here’s a stumper for the Holmes English teacher concerning subjective vs. objective cases of pronouns:
    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

  68. Anonymous

    Grammar debates, what fun. Paying rigorous attention to grammar can only improve the clarity and precision of one’s thinking. The “us” vs. “we” conundrum is something I’d not thought of in years!
    But here’s a stumper for the Holmes English teacher concerning subjective vs. objective cases of pronouns:
    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

  69. tansey thomas

    Excuse me please, but DPD personally attends all of those City Council meetings, ,many school board meetings and numerous events often until early in the a.m., does interviews, etc. and still gets up by 5a.m. SEVEN days a week to write this blog. Most of us couldn’t spell our own names by then. Doug has been incredibly effective, and nobody is doing better. Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.

  70. tansey thomas

    Excuse me please, but DPD personally attends all of those City Council meetings, ,many school board meetings and numerous events often until early in the a.m., does interviews, etc. and still gets up by 5a.m. SEVEN days a week to write this blog. Most of us couldn’t spell our own names by then. Doug has been incredibly effective, and nobody is doing better. Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.

  71. tansey thomas

    Excuse me please, but DPD personally attends all of those City Council meetings, ,many school board meetings and numerous events often until early in the a.m., does interviews, etc. and still gets up by 5a.m. SEVEN days a week to write this blog. Most of us couldn’t spell our own names by then. Doug has been incredibly effective, and nobody is doing better. Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.

  72. tansey thomas

    Excuse me please, but DPD personally attends all of those City Council meetings, ,many school board meetings and numerous events often until early in the a.m., does interviews, etc. and still gets up by 5a.m. SEVEN days a week to write this blog. Most of us couldn’t spell our own names by then. Doug has been incredibly effective, and nobody is doing better. Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.

  73. Anonymous

    The truancy issue being soved by use of police force is a Jeff Reisig special. Look at his home page for the District Attorney’s office. It’s one of his “Visions” for 2007.

    Expect more “jack-boot” service rather than cooperation with the community on that one.

    The achievement gap is an issue the community could unite behind, but I am afraid that since police can’t enforce something there, the attention will be on truancy.

    Once again, helping the kids falls prey to quick fix politics.

    Let’s work on the achievement gap here and establishing comunity schools like Valley Oak, not ignoring those issues and people.

  74. Anonymous

    The truancy issue being soved by use of police force is a Jeff Reisig special. Look at his home page for the District Attorney’s office. It’s one of his “Visions” for 2007.

    Expect more “jack-boot” service rather than cooperation with the community on that one.

    The achievement gap is an issue the community could unite behind, but I am afraid that since police can’t enforce something there, the attention will be on truancy.

    Once again, helping the kids falls prey to quick fix politics.

    Let’s work on the achievement gap here and establishing comunity schools like Valley Oak, not ignoring those issues and people.

  75. Anonymous

    The truancy issue being soved by use of police force is a Jeff Reisig special. Look at his home page for the District Attorney’s office. It’s one of his “Visions” for 2007.

    Expect more “jack-boot” service rather than cooperation with the community on that one.

    The achievement gap is an issue the community could unite behind, but I am afraid that since police can’t enforce something there, the attention will be on truancy.

    Once again, helping the kids falls prey to quick fix politics.

    Let’s work on the achievement gap here and establishing comunity schools like Valley Oak, not ignoring those issues and people.

  76. Anonymous

    The truancy issue being soved by use of police force is a Jeff Reisig special. Look at his home page for the District Attorney’s office. It’s one of his “Visions” for 2007.

    Expect more “jack-boot” service rather than cooperation with the community on that one.

    The achievement gap is an issue the community could unite behind, but I am afraid that since police can’t enforce something there, the attention will be on truancy.

    Once again, helping the kids falls prey to quick fix politics.

    Let’s work on the achievement gap here and establishing comunity schools like Valley Oak, not ignoring those issues and people.

  77. Anonymous

    Ms. Thomas wrote:
    “Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.”

    Ms. Thomas, I wouldn’t have had to read your comment twice if you’d written:
    “Now change is on the way and I only hope The People’s Vanguard remains informative and credible.”
    (I wasn’t quite sure what “it” in your comment referred to? Change?)

    Along with informativeness and credibility, readability can only increase the effectiveness of comments such as yours as well as Mr. Greenwald’s weblog.

  78. Anonymous

    Ms. Thomas wrote:
    “Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.”

    Ms. Thomas, I wouldn’t have had to read your comment twice if you’d written:
    “Now change is on the way and I only hope The People’s Vanguard remains informative and credible.”
    (I wasn’t quite sure what “it” in your comment referred to? Change?)

    Along with informativeness and credibility, readability can only increase the effectiveness of comments such as yours as well as Mr. Greenwald’s weblog.

  79. Anonymous

    Ms. Thomas wrote:
    “Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.”

    Ms. Thomas, I wouldn’t have had to read your comment twice if you’d written:
    “Now change is on the way and I only hope The People’s Vanguard remains informative and credible.”
    (I wasn’t quite sure what “it” in your comment referred to? Change?)

    Along with informativeness and credibility, readability can only increase the effectiveness of comments such as yours as well as Mr. Greenwald’s weblog.

  80. Anonymous

    Ms. Thomas wrote:
    “Now that change is on the way and I only hope it remains as informative and credible.”

    Ms. Thomas, I wouldn’t have had to read your comment twice if you’d written:
    “Now change is on the way and I only hope The People’s Vanguard remains informative and credible.”
    (I wasn’t quite sure what “it” in your comment referred to? Change?)

    Along with informativeness and credibility, readability can only increase the effectiveness of comments such as yours as well as Mr. Greenwald’s weblog.

  81. Anonymous

    Regarding the achievement gap:
    Perhaps Davis should hire more teachers of European ancestry since it appears that Asian students have higher scores on proficiency tests. It seems to be an acknowledged truth here that people learn best when their teachers are the same color as they are.

  82. Anonymous

    Regarding the achievement gap:
    Perhaps Davis should hire more teachers of European ancestry since it appears that Asian students have higher scores on proficiency tests. It seems to be an acknowledged truth here that people learn best when their teachers are the same color as they are.

  83. Anonymous

    Regarding the achievement gap:
    Perhaps Davis should hire more teachers of European ancestry since it appears that Asian students have higher scores on proficiency tests. It seems to be an acknowledged truth here that people learn best when their teachers are the same color as they are.

  84. Anonymous

    Regarding the achievement gap:
    Perhaps Davis should hire more teachers of European ancestry since it appears that Asian students have higher scores on proficiency tests. It seems to be an acknowledged truth here that people learn best when their teachers are the same color as they are.

  85. tansey thomas

    I am happy to see comments from Youth Observer. We really need to hear more from young people and also parents of all groups and interests about campus and off campus issues. I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues. It needs to be done in a way that lessens the fear of retaliation that silences so many. We really need to hear the good, the bad, the ugly about the Davis school experience. We need to hear about the experiences of the disabled, the racial and ethnic minority, the biracial, gay and low income communities in Davis. If anyone is interested in making it happen let me know.

  86. tansey thomas

    I am happy to see comments from Youth Observer. We really need to hear more from young people and also parents of all groups and interests about campus and off campus issues. I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues. It needs to be done in a way that lessens the fear of retaliation that silences so many. We really need to hear the good, the bad, the ugly about the Davis school experience. We need to hear about the experiences of the disabled, the racial and ethnic minority, the biracial, gay and low income communities in Davis. If anyone is interested in making it happen let me know.

  87. tansey thomas

    I am happy to see comments from Youth Observer. We really need to hear more from young people and also parents of all groups and interests about campus and off campus issues. I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues. It needs to be done in a way that lessens the fear of retaliation that silences so many. We really need to hear the good, the bad, the ugly about the Davis school experience. We need to hear about the experiences of the disabled, the racial and ethnic minority, the biracial, gay and low income communities in Davis. If anyone is interested in making it happen let me know.

  88. tansey thomas

    I am happy to see comments from Youth Observer. We really need to hear more from young people and also parents of all groups and interests about campus and off campus issues. I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues. It needs to be done in a way that lessens the fear of retaliation that silences so many. We really need to hear the good, the bad, the ugly about the Davis school experience. We need to hear about the experiences of the disabled, the racial and ethnic minority, the biracial, gay and low income communities in Davis. If anyone is interested in making it happen let me know.

  89. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    Maybe one of the school board candidates could commit to having these on a regular basis.

  90. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    Maybe one of the school board candidates could commit to having these on a regular basis.

  91. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    Maybe one of the school board candidates could commit to having these on a regular basis.

  92. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    Maybe one of the school board candidates could commit to having these on a regular basis.

  93. a blog administrator

    How would everyone feel about a blog administrator removing the grammar discussion from this thread so we can see the discussion on youth concerns in Davis and the candidates?

  94. a blog administrator

    How would everyone feel about a blog administrator removing the grammar discussion from this thread so we can see the discussion on youth concerns in Davis and the candidates?

  95. a blog administrator

    How would everyone feel about a blog administrator removing the grammar discussion from this thread so we can see the discussion on youth concerns in Davis and the candidates?

  96. a blog administrator

    How would everyone feel about a blog administrator removing the grammar discussion from this thread so we can see the discussion on youth concerns in Davis and the candidates?

  97. darnell

    Let’s not get into subjective deletions again. The last time that happened it was pretty messy. Skip over those comments that start out with that crap, you know where it’s headed. You won’t miss much.

    If you didn’t delete the comment of a couple days ago that basically called the Mayor Pro Tem a whore then I can’t see deleting the grammar comments.

  98. darnell

    Let’s not get into subjective deletions again. The last time that happened it was pretty messy. Skip over those comments that start out with that crap, you know where it’s headed. You won’t miss much.

    If you didn’t delete the comment of a couple days ago that basically called the Mayor Pro Tem a whore then I can’t see deleting the grammar comments.

  99. darnell

    Let’s not get into subjective deletions again. The last time that happened it was pretty messy. Skip over those comments that start out with that crap, you know where it’s headed. You won’t miss much.

    If you didn’t delete the comment of a couple days ago that basically called the Mayor Pro Tem a whore then I can’t see deleting the grammar comments.

  100. darnell

    Let’s not get into subjective deletions again. The last time that happened it was pretty messy. Skip over those comments that start out with that crap, you know where it’s headed. You won’t miss much.

    If you didn’t delete the comment of a couple days ago that basically called the Mayor Pro Tem a whore then I can’t see deleting the grammar comments.

  101. Blog Moderator

    Regardless if you post profanity, your post will be deleted automatically, no questions asked. Find another way to express yourself if you want to be heard on here. You know who you are.

  102. Blog Moderator

    Regardless if you post profanity, your post will be deleted automatically, no questions asked. Find another way to express yourself if you want to be heard on here. You know who you are.

  103. Blog Moderator

    Regardless if you post profanity, your post will be deleted automatically, no questions asked. Find another way to express yourself if you want to be heard on here. You know who you are.

  104. Blog Moderator

    Regardless if you post profanity, your post will be deleted automatically, no questions asked. Find another way to express yourself if you want to be heard on here. You know who you are.

  105. Anonymous

    Don Shor said…
    Thank you, Tansey, for bringing the thread back on topic. There are other places to debate grammar.

    9/8/07 1:20 PM

    what’s the big deal, if you don’t want to read about the grammar issues raised by a Holmes Junior High teacher, which actually seems fairly relevant to this discussion, skip over them. Some people ought to get over themselves and just let the conversation flow…

  106. Anonymous

    Don Shor said…
    Thank you, Tansey, for bringing the thread back on topic. There are other places to debate grammar.

    9/8/07 1:20 PM

    what’s the big deal, if you don’t want to read about the grammar issues raised by a Holmes Junior High teacher, which actually seems fairly relevant to this discussion, skip over them. Some people ought to get over themselves and just let the conversation flow…

  107. Anonymous

    Don Shor said…
    Thank you, Tansey, for bringing the thread back on topic. There are other places to debate grammar.

    9/8/07 1:20 PM

    what’s the big deal, if you don’t want to read about the grammar issues raised by a Holmes Junior High teacher, which actually seems fairly relevant to this discussion, skip over them. Some people ought to get over themselves and just let the conversation flow…

  108. Anonymous

    Don Shor said…
    Thank you, Tansey, for bringing the thread back on topic. There are other places to debate grammar.

    9/8/07 1:20 PM

    what’s the big deal, if you don’t want to read about the grammar issues raised by a Holmes Junior High teacher, which actually seems fairly relevant to this discussion, skip over them. Some people ought to get over themselves and just let the conversation flow…

  109. Anonymous

    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

    Consider your questions in the form of a conversation:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is Sharla speaking.

    In Sharla’s reply, even though “this” comes first, “this” is objective. “Sharla” is the subject of her reply. “Is speaking” is the verb. Therefore, if you replace “Sharla” in her answer with a pronoun, the pronoun should be “she,” as here:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is she speaking.

    Alternatively, you can drop speaking:

    Sharla: Hi. This is she.

    What makes that construction most confusing is the unusual use of “this” as an objective pronoun to start the sentence. Left alone, it isn’t clear what it means. But I believe it implies “on this telephone” or “in this conversation” or “in this instance.”

    So reconsider Sharla’s answer one last time:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. She is speaking on this telephone.

    With that odd sounding reconstructed sentence, it is now clear that “she” is the subjective pronoun, “is speaking” is the gerund verb, and “this telephone” is the object of the preposition.

  110. Anonymous

    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

    Consider your questions in the form of a conversation:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is Sharla speaking.

    In Sharla’s reply, even though “this” comes first, “this” is objective. “Sharla” is the subject of her reply. “Is speaking” is the verb. Therefore, if you replace “Sharla” in her answer with a pronoun, the pronoun should be “she,” as here:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is she speaking.

    Alternatively, you can drop speaking:

    Sharla: Hi. This is she.

    What makes that construction most confusing is the unusual use of “this” as an objective pronoun to start the sentence. Left alone, it isn’t clear what it means. But I believe it implies “on this telephone” or “in this conversation” or “in this instance.”

    So reconsider Sharla’s answer one last time:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. She is speaking on this telephone.

    With that odd sounding reconstructed sentence, it is now clear that “she” is the subjective pronoun, “is speaking” is the gerund verb, and “this telephone” is the object of the preposition.

  111. Anonymous

    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

    Consider your questions in the form of a conversation:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is Sharla speaking.

    In Sharla’s reply, even though “this” comes first, “this” is objective. “Sharla” is the subject of her reply. “Is speaking” is the verb. Therefore, if you replace “Sharla” in her answer with a pronoun, the pronoun should be “she,” as here:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is she speaking.

    Alternatively, you can drop speaking:

    Sharla: Hi. This is she.

    What makes that construction most confusing is the unusual use of “this” as an objective pronoun to start the sentence. Left alone, it isn’t clear what it means. But I believe it implies “on this telephone” or “in this conversation” or “in this instance.”

    So reconsider Sharla’s answer one last time:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. She is speaking on this telephone.

    With that odd sounding reconstructed sentence, it is now clear that “she” is the subjective pronoun, “is speaking” is the gerund verb, and “this telephone” is the object of the preposition.

  112. Anonymous

    Why do people when they answer the phone say: “this is she” or “this is he”? With “this” being the subjective pronoun and “he” and “she” being subjective pronoun forms? Wouldn’t a grammarian think they’d say “This is her” or “This is him”?

    Consider your questions in the form of a conversation:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is Sharla speaking.

    In Sharla’s reply, even though “this” comes first, “this” is objective. “Sharla” is the subject of her reply. “Is speaking” is the verb. Therefore, if you replace “Sharla” in her answer with a pronoun, the pronoun should be “she,” as here:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. This is she speaking.

    Alternatively, you can drop speaking:

    Sharla: Hi. This is she.

    What makes that construction most confusing is the unusual use of “this” as an objective pronoun to start the sentence. Left alone, it isn’t clear what it means. But I believe it implies “on this telephone” or “in this conversation” or “in this instance.”

    So reconsider Sharla’s answer one last time:

    Dougie: Hi. May I speak with Sharla?

    Sharla: Hi. She is speaking on this telephone.

    With that odd sounding reconstructed sentence, it is now clear that “she” is the subjective pronoun, “is speaking” is the gerund verb, and “this telephone” is the object of the preposition.

  113. Anonymous

    Let me add one more thing. My mother used to answer the telephone incorrectly saying, “I am she.”

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am she.

    To understand what Betty is trying to say, consider two lengthier replies and then pare them back:

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    1. Betty: I am Betty. You are speaking with her.

    2. Betty: I am her. You are speaking with Betty.

    These are both correct, though the former sounds better.

    “Betty” is the object of sentence. To replace that proper noun with a pronoun, you need to use the feminine objective pronoun, her.

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am her.

    Because that sounds bad to our ears, it’s preferable for Betty to simply reply, “I am Betty.” But she should never answer, “I am she.”

  114. Anonymous

    Let me add one more thing. My mother used to answer the telephone incorrectly saying, “I am she.”

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am she.

    To understand what Betty is trying to say, consider two lengthier replies and then pare them back:

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    1. Betty: I am Betty. You are speaking with her.

    2. Betty: I am her. You are speaking with Betty.

    These are both correct, though the former sounds better.

    “Betty” is the object of sentence. To replace that proper noun with a pronoun, you need to use the feminine objective pronoun, her.

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am her.

    Because that sounds bad to our ears, it’s preferable for Betty to simply reply, “I am Betty.” But she should never answer, “I am she.”

  115. Anonymous

    Let me add one more thing. My mother used to answer the telephone incorrectly saying, “I am she.”

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am she.

    To understand what Betty is trying to say, consider two lengthier replies and then pare them back:

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    1. Betty: I am Betty. You are speaking with her.

    2. Betty: I am her. You are speaking with Betty.

    These are both correct, though the former sounds better.

    “Betty” is the object of sentence. To replace that proper noun with a pronoun, you need to use the feminine objective pronoun, her.

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am her.

    Because that sounds bad to our ears, it’s preferable for Betty to simply reply, “I am Betty.” But she should never answer, “I am she.”

  116. Anonymous

    Let me add one more thing. My mother used to answer the telephone incorrectly saying, “I am she.”

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am she.

    To understand what Betty is trying to say, consider two lengthier replies and then pare them back:

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    1. Betty: I am Betty. You are speaking with her.

    2. Betty: I am her. You are speaking with Betty.

    These are both correct, though the former sounds better.

    “Betty” is the object of sentence. To replace that proper noun with a pronoun, you need to use the feminine objective pronoun, her.

    Wilma: Hi. May I speak with Betty?

    Betty: I am her.

    Because that sounds bad to our ears, it’s preferable for Betty to simply reply, “I am Betty.” But she should never answer, “I am she.”

  117. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    If someone else will arrange the program, I’ll arrange the facility.

  118. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    If someone else will arrange the program, I’ll arrange the facility.

  119. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    If someone else will arrange the program, I’ll arrange the facility.

  120. Don Shor

    “I think that there should be a Town Hall on youth issues by the students and a Town Hall by parents on school issues.”
    If someone else will arrange the program, I’ll arrange the facility.

  121. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

  122. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

  123. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

  124. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

  125. davisite

    Posting by Anonymous, 9/8,10:31 PM
    will be trumpeted as an example of why Anonynmous postings should be curtailed. For my part, such postings speak volumes about the author and only serve to highlight the thoughtful critical thinking that is the usual Vanguard posting fare.

  126. davisite

    Posting by Anonymous, 9/8,10:31 PM
    will be trumpeted as an example of why Anonynmous postings should be curtailed. For my part, such postings speak volumes about the author and only serve to highlight the thoughtful critical thinking that is the usual Vanguard posting fare.

  127. davisite

    Posting by Anonymous, 9/8,10:31 PM
    will be trumpeted as an example of why Anonynmous postings should be curtailed. For my part, such postings speak volumes about the author and only serve to highlight the thoughtful critical thinking that is the usual Vanguard posting fare.

  128. davisite

    Posting by Anonymous, 9/8,10:31 PM
    will be trumpeted as an example of why Anonynmous postings should be curtailed. For my part, such postings speak volumes about the author and only serve to highlight the thoughtful critical thinking that is the usual Vanguard posting fare.

  129. Anonymous

    I’d like to follow both of them around and watch what happens when someone tries to mess with David. He may be a nice affable guy, but he’s also been a weight lifter for 15 or 20 years and could bench most of the people in this community.

  130. Anonymous

    I’d like to follow both of them around and watch what happens when someone tries to mess with David. He may be a nice affable guy, but he’s also been a weight lifter for 15 or 20 years and could bench most of the people in this community.

  131. Anonymous

    I’d like to follow both of them around and watch what happens when someone tries to mess with David. He may be a nice affable guy, but he’s also been a weight lifter for 15 or 20 years and could bench most of the people in this community.

  132. Anonymous

    I’d like to follow both of them around and watch what happens when someone tries to mess with David. He may be a nice affable guy, but he’s also been a weight lifter for 15 or 20 years and could bench most of the people in this community.

  133. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

    9/8/07 10:31 PM

    This sort of “schoolyard bully” comment comes from people who didn’t pay attention in, or were suspended from, grammar school.

  134. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

    9/8/07 10:31 PM

    This sort of “schoolyard bully” comment comes from people who didn’t pay attention in, or were suspended from, grammar school.

  135. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

    9/8/07 10:31 PM

    This sort of “schoolyard bully” comment comes from people who didn’t pay attention in, or were suspended from, grammar school.

  136. Anonymous

    I think I’m going to follow David Greenwald around and everytime he does or says something I don’t agree with I’m going to kick him in his fat ass. Would’nt take but a few minutes and I’d be tired from booting him. Of course there would be a long line of people waiting to take my place.

    9/8/07 10:31 PM

    This sort of “schoolyard bully” comment comes from people who didn’t pay attention in, or were suspended from, grammar school.

  137. Anonymous

    Bullies who, when grammar school age, get called on their behavior by an authority figure may be so traumatized, they’ll never develop emotionally/socially beyond that point…the writer who wants to follow Mr. Greenwald around obviously has never-resolved issues with authority. Of course, this narcissistic pattern of behavior doesn’t work in the adult world, unless the bully posts anonymous comments to a weblog. It must be frustrating to be a cowardly bully with such an inadequate outlet for expression.

  138. Anonymous

    Bullies who, when grammar school age, get called on their behavior by an authority figure may be so traumatized, they’ll never develop emotionally/socially beyond that point…the writer who wants to follow Mr. Greenwald around obviously has never-resolved issues with authority. Of course, this narcissistic pattern of behavior doesn’t work in the adult world, unless the bully posts anonymous comments to a weblog. It must be frustrating to be a cowardly bully with such an inadequate outlet for expression.

  139. Anonymous

    Bullies who, when grammar school age, get called on their behavior by an authority figure may be so traumatized, they’ll never develop emotionally/socially beyond that point…the writer who wants to follow Mr. Greenwald around obviously has never-resolved issues with authority. Of course, this narcissistic pattern of behavior doesn’t work in the adult world, unless the bully posts anonymous comments to a weblog. It must be frustrating to be a cowardly bully with such an inadequate outlet for expression.

  140. Anonymous

    Bullies who, when grammar school age, get called on their behavior by an authority figure may be so traumatized, they’ll never develop emotionally/socially beyond that point…the writer who wants to follow Mr. Greenwald around obviously has never-resolved issues with authority. Of course, this narcissistic pattern of behavior doesn’t work in the adult world, unless the bully posts anonymous comments to a weblog. It must be frustrating to be a cowardly bully with such an inadequate outlet for expression.

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