Case of Alleged West Sacramento Police Brutality Goes to Court

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I received a press release the other day about this West Sacramento case of police brutality. The incident occurred over two years ago, one of the brothers was so badly hurt that they are just now able to even stand trial or testify. They are charged with resisting arrest and and two counts of battery of a police officer. The brothers have filed a civil suit in federal court alleging that they are victims of racial violence and excessive force by the police officers.

The police claim they had grounds for arrest on suspicion of use of a controlled substance. However, according to the Sacramento Bee, “No drugs were found on either man, according to testimony, and no drugs were detected in their systems.”

According to the Sacramento Bee article published on Wednesday:

“Defense attorneys Anthony Palik and Hector Salitrero said Fermin Galvan-Magana, 31, and his brother Ernesto Galvan-Magana, 30, had not been able to come to trial until now because the younger brother suffered debilitating head injuries.

“Ernesto was in a coma 1 1/2 months and he was in the hospital for two months,” Salitrero told the jury in his opening statement.

According to testimony, officers struck Ernesto Galvan-Magana three times with a Taser gun and then several times with their batons.

Salitrero described the officers’ actions as excessive and racially motivated. He said the baton blows caused Ernesto Galvan-Magana’s skull to collapse.

“There were no less than eight strikes to Ernesto’s head, any one of which could have been lethal,” Salitrero said.

Yolo County prosecutors argued the officers’ actions were appropriate to subdue the man, who they said was kicking, punching and out of control.”

The police’s version of event is recounted in the Sacramento Bee article from Wednesday:

“The encounter began about 3:20 a.m., police Detective Donald Schlie testified, after he saw a car parked on a dead-end street behind a middle school near a levee in the Bryte neighborhood.

The area near Riverbank Road and Todhunter Avenue is known for late-night crime, he said, and he radioed for his partner in another car to join him.

Schlie testified that he then saw two men at the bottom of the levee, about 25 feet away.

He said he engaged Ernesto and Fermin Galvan-Magana – who live nearby – in casual conversation, explaining that he was not attempting an arrest.

“I asked them, ‘How is it going?'” Schlie said.

The detective said Ernesto Galvan-Magana was acting as if he was under the influence of a controlled substance – that he was sweaty and was making fast movements. He said he told the two men to raise their hands, first in English then in Spanish.

Ernesto Galvan-Magana failed to comply after several requests, Schlie said.

The detective said he fought with Ernesto Galvan-Magana for about four minutes, trying to subdue him with his Taser and then his baton, striking him in the legs and arms.

Other officers were called to the scene to assist, he said.

Fermin Galvan-Magana, who yelled at the officers to stop, also was struck with a baton and needed medical care, according to testimony.”

Here’s the full press release:

“The trial of Ernesto and Fermin Galvan-Magana – one knocked unconscious and another struck at so many times by West Sacramento Police batons that he suffered multiple fractures of his face and skull – continues here Wednesday in Dept. 4 of Yolo County Superior Court.

Both brothers have alleged excessive force – Ernesto was in a coma for nearly two months – and claim that one arresting officer had tattoos of a “racial nature” on the middle fingers of both his hands. The court has confirmed the presence of tattoos.

Although police admit the brothers were not breaking any laws when stopped in June of 2005, Ernesto is charged with felony resisting arrest and two counts of battery of a police officer. Fermin faces only resisting arrest charges, according to the defense.

Evidence provided by defense lawyers note that although West Sacramento police said they had grounds for arrest for suspicion of use of a controlled substance in June of 2005, subsequent investigations revealed defendants had no drugs and medical tests did not show the presence of a controlled substance,

Both defendants have alleged they are victims of racial violence and excessive force by the West Sacramento Police Dept., said Palik, who has also filed a civil suit in federal court alleging injuries caused by the use of excessive force by the same officers.

The officers said they never aimed their baton blows above Ernesto’s shoulders, but police reports note he was struck 30 times with batons causing seven to eight fractures of his skull and face. The prosecution’s own medical expert confirms at least one, and possibly two, skull fractures could only have been caused by baton strikes aimed at Ernesto’s head.

Fermin Galvan was knocked unconscious after, he said, an officer struck him in the head and back. Despite the officer’s testimony he never struck Fermin above the belt, the prosecution’s own expert witness on police tactics testified unequivocally at the preliminary hearing that the elongated bruise on Fermin’s back could only have been caused by a baton strike.”

The Vanguard will be closely watching developments in this case.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

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About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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156 thoughts on “Case of Alleged West Sacramento Police Brutality Goes to Court”

  1. ACLU Supporter

    This is a very disturbing incident. I have become increasingly concerned about the use of taser weapons by the police. In theory, they are a means to reduce injury, in practice it seems though they are all too willing to use them ad hoc.

    This however is a case of a police officer losing control of his scene. An individual without drugs in his system should not take 7 or 8 baton blows to the head to subdue. Something is amiss here.

  2. ACLU Supporter

    This is a very disturbing incident. I have become increasingly concerned about the use of taser weapons by the police. In theory, they are a means to reduce injury, in practice it seems though they are all too willing to use them ad hoc.

    This however is a case of a police officer losing control of his scene. An individual without drugs in his system should not take 7 or 8 baton blows to the head to subdue. Something is amiss here.

  3. ACLU Supporter

    This is a very disturbing incident. I have become increasingly concerned about the use of taser weapons by the police. In theory, they are a means to reduce injury, in practice it seems though they are all too willing to use them ad hoc.

    This however is a case of a police officer losing control of his scene. An individual without drugs in his system should not take 7 or 8 baton blows to the head to subdue. Something is amiss here.

  4. ACLU Supporter

    This is a very disturbing incident. I have become increasingly concerned about the use of taser weapons by the police. In theory, they are a means to reduce injury, in practice it seems though they are all too willing to use them ad hoc.

    This however is a case of a police officer losing control of his scene. An individual without drugs in his system should not take 7 or 8 baton blows to the head to subdue. Something is amiss here.

  5. Anonymous

    “Yolo County prosecutors argued the officers’ actions were appropriate to subdue the man, who they said was kicking, punching and out of control.”

    Arguably the best thing that’s happened to radio comedy in the last 25 years is the invention of the taser. Nothing is funnier than hearing some clown wacked out on crack getting jolted. “Don’t taser me, bro!”

    “Ahhhhhhh! Ahhhhhh! Ahhhhh!”

    Although uptight self important folks have no sense of humor about the taser, the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.

  6. Anonymous

    “Yolo County prosecutors argued the officers’ actions were appropriate to subdue the man, who they said was kicking, punching and out of control.”

    Arguably the best thing that’s happened to radio comedy in the last 25 years is the invention of the taser. Nothing is funnier than hearing some clown wacked out on crack getting jolted. “Don’t taser me, bro!”

    “Ahhhhhhh! Ahhhhhh! Ahhhhh!”

    Although uptight self important folks have no sense of humor about the taser, the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.

  7. Anonymous

    “Yolo County prosecutors argued the officers’ actions were appropriate to subdue the man, who they said was kicking, punching and out of control.”

    Arguably the best thing that’s happened to radio comedy in the last 25 years is the invention of the taser. Nothing is funnier than hearing some clown wacked out on crack getting jolted. “Don’t taser me, bro!”

    “Ahhhhhhh! Ahhhhhh! Ahhhhh!”

    Although uptight self important folks have no sense of humor about the taser, the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.

  8. Anonymous

    “Yolo County prosecutors argued the officers’ actions were appropriate to subdue the man, who they said was kicking, punching and out of control.”

    Arguably the best thing that’s happened to radio comedy in the last 25 years is the invention of the taser. Nothing is funnier than hearing some clown wacked out on crack getting jolted. “Don’t taser me, bro!”

    “Ahhhhhhh! Ahhhhhh! Ahhhhh!”

    Although uptight self important folks have no sense of humor about the taser, the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.

  9. Anonymous

    Someone who has been tazed would never laugh about its use. The guy was clearly beaten. The guy spent months in a coma

    Where do people like annonymous 9:30 am come from?

    Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.

  10. Anonymous

    Someone who has been tazed would never laugh about its use. The guy was clearly beaten. The guy spent months in a coma

    Where do people like annonymous 9:30 am come from?

    Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.

  11. Anonymous

    Someone who has been tazed would never laugh about its use. The guy was clearly beaten. The guy spent months in a coma

    Where do people like annonymous 9:30 am come from?

    Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.

  12. Anonymous

    Someone who has been tazed would never laugh about its use. The guy was clearly beaten. The guy spent months in a coma

    Where do people like annonymous 9:30 am come from?

    Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.

  13. Doug Paul Davis

    I think the post undermines the poster’s position.

    For instance:

    “the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.”

    Even the Sacramento Bee article made it clear that there was no evidence of drug usage.

    Anyone who can laugh at any person being put into a coma is not a person that most people can empathize with. By their own words they will be indicted.

  14. Doug Paul Davis

    I think the post undermines the poster’s position.

    For instance:

    “the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.”

    Even the Sacramento Bee article made it clear that there was no evidence of drug usage.

    Anyone who can laugh at any person being put into a coma is not a person that most people can empathize with. By their own words they will be indicted.

  15. Doug Paul Davis

    I think the post undermines the poster’s position.

    For instance:

    “the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.”

    Even the Sacramento Bee article made it clear that there was no evidence of drug usage.

    Anyone who can laugh at any person being put into a coma is not a person that most people can empathize with. By their own words they will be indicted.

  16. Doug Paul Davis

    I think the post undermines the poster’s position.

    For instance:

    “the rest of us are laughing our asses off at these cop-attacking druggies getting tased.”

    Even the Sacramento Bee article made it clear that there was no evidence of drug usage.

    Anyone who can laugh at any person being put into a coma is not a person that most people can empathize with. By their own words they will be indicted.

  17. Diane

    I don’t think the comment should be removed, since it shows the foolishness of some.

    The very reason why we need to have laws or standards for the use of taser weapons is to not cause undue harm to people, and so that when some foolish person (as the poster at 9:30 AM) uses it improperly they can be properly dealt with in the court of law.

  18. Diane

    I don’t think the comment should be removed, since it shows the foolishness of some.

    The very reason why we need to have laws or standards for the use of taser weapons is to not cause undue harm to people, and so that when some foolish person (as the poster at 9:30 AM) uses it improperly they can be properly dealt with in the court of law.

  19. Diane

    I don’t think the comment should be removed, since it shows the foolishness of some.

    The very reason why we need to have laws or standards for the use of taser weapons is to not cause undue harm to people, and so that when some foolish person (as the poster at 9:30 AM) uses it improperly they can be properly dealt with in the court of law.

  20. Diane

    I don’t think the comment should be removed, since it shows the foolishness of some.

    The very reason why we need to have laws or standards for the use of taser weapons is to not cause undue harm to people, and so that when some foolish person (as the poster at 9:30 AM) uses it improperly they can be properly dealt with in the court of law.

  21. torquemada x

    “Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.”

    It interests me as an occasional reader of this blog that there is so much censorship. Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down. It’s as if the blogger does not trust his readers to make up their own minds about what is being said. I can understand removing a comment which is defamatory. However, there are lots of defamatory comments on this blog and I have not seen most of them being removed. The comments which are taken away seem to only be those which offend the point of view of the blogger, especially if the writer uses humor to get the point across. That reality is subconsciously clear to all of the readers of this blog. That is why the 9:37 Anonymous requested that another person’s point of view be removed. 9:37 subconsciously knows that only one point of view is truly welcome here. Other viewpoints will be censored or savaged.

  22. torquemada x

    “Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.”

    It interests me as an occasional reader of this blog that there is so much censorship. Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down. It’s as if the blogger does not trust his readers to make up their own minds about what is being said. I can understand removing a comment which is defamatory. However, there are lots of defamatory comments on this blog and I have not seen most of them being removed. The comments which are taken away seem to only be those which offend the point of view of the blogger, especially if the writer uses humor to get the point across. That reality is subconsciously clear to all of the readers of this blog. That is why the 9:37 Anonymous requested that another person’s point of view be removed. 9:37 subconsciously knows that only one point of view is truly welcome here. Other viewpoints will be censored or savaged.

  23. torquemada x

    “Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.”

    It interests me as an occasional reader of this blog that there is so much censorship. Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down. It’s as if the blogger does not trust his readers to make up their own minds about what is being said. I can understand removing a comment which is defamatory. However, there are lots of defamatory comments on this blog and I have not seen most of them being removed. The comments which are taken away seem to only be those which offend the point of view of the blogger, especially if the writer uses humor to get the point across. That reality is subconsciously clear to all of the readers of this blog. That is why the 9:37 Anonymous requested that another person’s point of view be removed. 9:37 subconsciously knows that only one point of view is truly welcome here. Other viewpoints will be censored or savaged.

  24. torquemada x

    “Moderator – please remove this incredibly insensitive comment.”

    It interests me as an occasional reader of this blog that there is so much censorship. Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down. It’s as if the blogger does not trust his readers to make up their own minds about what is being said. I can understand removing a comment which is defamatory. However, there are lots of defamatory comments on this blog and I have not seen most of them being removed. The comments which are taken away seem to only be those which offend the point of view of the blogger, especially if the writer uses humor to get the point across. That reality is subconsciously clear to all of the readers of this blog. That is why the 9:37 Anonymous requested that another person’s point of view be removed. 9:37 subconsciously knows that only one point of view is truly welcome here. Other viewpoints will be censored or savaged.

  25. Anonymous

    There is nothing in the post from anonymous 9:30am post that suggests he was referencing the West Sacramento case that DPD wrote about. He seems to think that it is funny to hear the sounds that crack heads make when tasered. He didn’t say that he thought it was funny for anyone to be put in a coma.

    No reason for him to be censored.

  26. Anonymous

    There is nothing in the post from anonymous 9:30am post that suggests he was referencing the West Sacramento case that DPD wrote about. He seems to think that it is funny to hear the sounds that crack heads make when tasered. He didn’t say that he thought it was funny for anyone to be put in a coma.

    No reason for him to be censored.

  27. Anonymous

    There is nothing in the post from anonymous 9:30am post that suggests he was referencing the West Sacramento case that DPD wrote about. He seems to think that it is funny to hear the sounds that crack heads make when tasered. He didn’t say that he thought it was funny for anyone to be put in a coma.

    No reason for him to be censored.

  28. Anonymous

    There is nothing in the post from anonymous 9:30am post that suggests he was referencing the West Sacramento case that DPD wrote about. He seems to think that it is funny to hear the sounds that crack heads make when tasered. He didn’t say that he thought it was funny for anyone to be put in a coma.

    No reason for him to be censored.

  29. David

    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.

    It is pretty hard for me to imagine anyone continuing to be a threat to police officers after the first skull fracture – let alone 7 or 8.

    I agree with the above poster – there is no need for anonymous 9:30 to be censored. The post is certainly insensitive and the poster is not someone I would care to know, but s/he shouldn’t be censored.

  30. David

    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.

    It is pretty hard for me to imagine anyone continuing to be a threat to police officers after the first skull fracture – let alone 7 or 8.

    I agree with the above poster – there is no need for anonymous 9:30 to be censored. The post is certainly insensitive and the poster is not someone I would care to know, but s/he shouldn’t be censored.

  31. David

    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.

    It is pretty hard for me to imagine anyone continuing to be a threat to police officers after the first skull fracture – let alone 7 or 8.

    I agree with the above poster – there is no need for anonymous 9:30 to be censored. The post is certainly insensitive and the poster is not someone I would care to know, but s/he shouldn’t be censored.

  32. David

    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.

    It is pretty hard for me to imagine anyone continuing to be a threat to police officers after the first skull fracture – let alone 7 or 8.

    I agree with the above poster – there is no need for anonymous 9:30 to be censored. The post is certainly insensitive and the poster is not someone I would care to know, but s/he shouldn’t be censored.

  33. Blog Moderator

    “Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down.”

    I don’t think that is true. But there has been an increase in profanity, which will never be tolerated and name-calling.

  34. Blog Moderator

    “Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down.”

    I don’t think that is true. But there has been an increase in profanity, which will never be tolerated and name-calling.

  35. Blog Moderator

    “Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down.”

    I don’t think that is true. But there has been an increase in profanity, which will never be tolerated and name-calling.

  36. Blog Moderator

    “Almost every thread has two or more comments taken down.”

    I don’t think that is true. But there has been an increase in profanity, which will never be tolerated and name-calling.

  37. Anonymous

    “David said…
    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.”

    Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.

    Another question here is why did the subjects not just comply and talk to the officer?

    It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions. At times that decision is weather to engange and increase his/her possiblilty of going home safe at the end of his or her shift.

    I would have thought that after the Spector issue, the people on this blog would have learned to watch and wait before making outright attacks on the “accused.”

  38. Anonymous

    “David said…
    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.”

    Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.

    Another question here is why did the subjects not just comply and talk to the officer?

    It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions. At times that decision is weather to engange and increase his/her possiblilty of going home safe at the end of his or her shift.

    I would have thought that after the Spector issue, the people on this blog would have learned to watch and wait before making outright attacks on the “accused.”

  39. Anonymous

    “David said…
    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.”

    Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.

    Another question here is why did the subjects not just comply and talk to the officer?

    It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions. At times that decision is weather to engange and increase his/her possiblilty of going home safe at the end of his or her shift.

    I would have thought that after the Spector issue, the people on this blog would have learned to watch and wait before making outright attacks on the “accused.”

  40. Anonymous

    “David said…
    Assuming a taser was operating properly and was used properly, it should have been more than sufficient to subdue the suspect. Nobody – even a whacked out crackhead – is capable of resisting arrest when all of their muscles are contracting involuntarily as a result of high-voltage taser pulses. That’s why tasers were invented, and that’s why police departments use them.”

    Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.

    Another question here is why did the subjects not just comply and talk to the officer?

    It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions. At times that decision is weather to engange and increase his/her possiblilty of going home safe at the end of his or her shift.

    I would have thought that after the Spector issue, the people on this blog would have learned to watch and wait before making outright attacks on the “accused.”

  41. ACLU Supporter

    Using that standard it would be difficult to make any sort of judgment. I think most of us look at this, have concerns based on the facts, but also believe in the process.

    For me the question is the number of baton strikes to the head. Why so many? And at what point should we appropriately question the action? Or does the officer always get the benefit of the doubt because he or she has a small time to assess the situation and has the compelling need to get home safely.

  42. ACLU Supporter

    Using that standard it would be difficult to make any sort of judgment. I think most of us look at this, have concerns based on the facts, but also believe in the process.

    For me the question is the number of baton strikes to the head. Why so many? And at what point should we appropriately question the action? Or does the officer always get the benefit of the doubt because he or she has a small time to assess the situation and has the compelling need to get home safely.

  43. ACLU Supporter

    Using that standard it would be difficult to make any sort of judgment. I think most of us look at this, have concerns based on the facts, but also believe in the process.

    For me the question is the number of baton strikes to the head. Why so many? And at what point should we appropriately question the action? Or does the officer always get the benefit of the doubt because he or she has a small time to assess the situation and has the compelling need to get home safely.

  44. ACLU Supporter

    Using that standard it would be difficult to make any sort of judgment. I think most of us look at this, have concerns based on the facts, but also believe in the process.

    For me the question is the number of baton strikes to the head. Why so many? And at what point should we appropriately question the action? Or does the officer always get the benefit of the doubt because he or she has a small time to assess the situation and has the compelling need to get home safely.

  45. Anonymous

    Meth induced delirium as a condition where a person becomes delirious and combative, losing touch with reality and becoming totally out of control. Sometimes the person feels hot and runs a fever, They start taking off clothes in an attempt to cool off. When you confront a person in this state you use any and all means to control the subject. This includes beating the bastered senseless.
    If we treated drug abuse with a bullet there would be less drug addicts.

  46. Anonymous

    Meth induced delirium as a condition where a person becomes delirious and combative, losing touch with reality and becoming totally out of control. Sometimes the person feels hot and runs a fever, They start taking off clothes in an attempt to cool off. When you confront a person in this state you use any and all means to control the subject. This includes beating the bastered senseless.
    If we treated drug abuse with a bullet there would be less drug addicts.

  47. Anonymous

    Meth induced delirium as a condition where a person becomes delirious and combative, losing touch with reality and becoming totally out of control. Sometimes the person feels hot and runs a fever, They start taking off clothes in an attempt to cool off. When you confront a person in this state you use any and all means to control the subject. This includes beating the bastered senseless.
    If we treated drug abuse with a bullet there would be less drug addicts.

  48. Anonymous

    Meth induced delirium as a condition where a person becomes delirious and combative, losing touch with reality and becoming totally out of control. Sometimes the person feels hot and runs a fever, They start taking off clothes in an attempt to cool off. When you confront a person in this state you use any and all means to control the subject. This includes beating the bastered senseless.
    If we treated drug abuse with a bullet there would be less drug addicts.

  49. SAH

    I would like to see a study comparing Hispanic interactions with police and “the system” – Yolo County versus let’s say Monterey County.

    I have read some of the red neck posts here and attached to an article in the Sac Bee. I doubt you would see the idiotic/racist comments coming from the Monterey area that are clearly seen in Yolo County. There seems to be an element of people in Yolo County (and nearby) who think Hispanics are sub-human. It seems that some of that mentality has tainted a few local police officers.

    I understand police officers do not have much time to think before reacting. I would not like to confront people in the middle of the night. However, when officers nearly kill people based on false premise the officers must be held accountable. It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing.

  50. SAH

    I would like to see a study comparing Hispanic interactions with police and “the system” – Yolo County versus let’s say Monterey County.

    I have read some of the red neck posts here and attached to an article in the Sac Bee. I doubt you would see the idiotic/racist comments coming from the Monterey area that are clearly seen in Yolo County. There seems to be an element of people in Yolo County (and nearby) who think Hispanics are sub-human. It seems that some of that mentality has tainted a few local police officers.

    I understand police officers do not have much time to think before reacting. I would not like to confront people in the middle of the night. However, when officers nearly kill people based on false premise the officers must be held accountable. It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing.

  51. SAH

    I would like to see a study comparing Hispanic interactions with police and “the system” – Yolo County versus let’s say Monterey County.

    I have read some of the red neck posts here and attached to an article in the Sac Bee. I doubt you would see the idiotic/racist comments coming from the Monterey area that are clearly seen in Yolo County. There seems to be an element of people in Yolo County (and nearby) who think Hispanics are sub-human. It seems that some of that mentality has tainted a few local police officers.

    I understand police officers do not have much time to think before reacting. I would not like to confront people in the middle of the night. However, when officers nearly kill people based on false premise the officers must be held accountable. It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing.

  52. SAH

    I would like to see a study comparing Hispanic interactions with police and “the system” – Yolo County versus let’s say Monterey County.

    I have read some of the red neck posts here and attached to an article in the Sac Bee. I doubt you would see the idiotic/racist comments coming from the Monterey area that are clearly seen in Yolo County. There seems to be an element of people in Yolo County (and nearby) who think Hispanics are sub-human. It seems that some of that mentality has tainted a few local police officers.

    I understand police officers do not have much time to think before reacting. I would not like to confront people in the middle of the night. However, when officers nearly kill people based on false premise the officers must be held accountable. It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing.

  53. Anonymous

    Torquemada x is obviously lying about reading this blog, because the Vanguard doesn’t take comments down every day. The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules. It’s simple: follow the rules or get the boot –~~

  54. Anonymous

    Torquemada x is obviously lying about reading this blog, because the Vanguard doesn’t take comments down every day. The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules. It’s simple: follow the rules or get the boot –~~

  55. Anonymous

    Torquemada x is obviously lying about reading this blog, because the Vanguard doesn’t take comments down every day. The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules. It’s simple: follow the rules or get the boot –~~

  56. Anonymous

    Torquemada x is obviously lying about reading this blog, because the Vanguard doesn’t take comments down every day. The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules. It’s simple: follow the rules or get the boot –~~

  57. Anonymous

    “The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules.”

    This is unfortunately not true. I notice comments disappearing all the time, including one I read on today’s site which questioned the policy of censorship. Doug admitted he was the one who took it out. It didn’t violate the “any posts that use profanity or engage in name-calling or other potentially slanderous attacks will be subject to deletion.” It simply questioned why the blog moderator was abusing her power in such a corrupt manner?

  58. Anonymous

    “The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules.”

    This is unfortunately not true. I notice comments disappearing all the time, including one I read on today’s site which questioned the policy of censorship. Doug admitted he was the one who took it out. It didn’t violate the “any posts that use profanity or engage in name-calling or other potentially slanderous attacks will be subject to deletion.” It simply questioned why the blog moderator was abusing her power in such a corrupt manner?

  59. Anonymous

    “The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules.”

    This is unfortunately not true. I notice comments disappearing all the time, including one I read on today’s site which questioned the policy of censorship. Doug admitted he was the one who took it out. It didn’t violate the “any posts that use profanity or engage in name-calling or other potentially slanderous attacks will be subject to deletion.” It simply questioned why the blog moderator was abusing her power in such a corrupt manner?

  60. Anonymous

    “The Vanguard only deletes comments when people violate the rules.”

    This is unfortunately not true. I notice comments disappearing all the time, including one I read on today’s site which questioned the policy of censorship. Doug admitted he was the one who took it out. It didn’t violate the “any posts that use profanity or engage in name-calling or other potentially slanderous attacks will be subject to deletion.” It simply questioned why the blog moderator was abusing her power in such a corrupt manner?

  61. Doug Paul Davis

    Future concerns of this sort should be directed to me via email. I won’t have volunteers on this blog subject to public criticism by people who are not revealing their name.

  62. Doug Paul Davis

    Future concerns of this sort should be directed to me via email. I won’t have volunteers on this blog subject to public criticism by people who are not revealing their name.

  63. Doug Paul Davis

    Future concerns of this sort should be directed to me via email. I won’t have volunteers on this blog subject to public criticism by people who are not revealing their name.

  64. Doug Paul Davis

    Future concerns of this sort should be directed to me via email. I won’t have volunteers on this blog subject to public criticism by people who are not revealing their name.

  65. david

    Anon 3:24 said:

    “Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.”

    Point taken. Certainly a taser would have no effect on someone wearing a heavy jacket made of leather or other material that is a good electrical insulator.

    “It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions.”

    I think we all appreciate that fact, and appreciate the good police work that is done 99.9% of the time. However, I still fail to understand the need for 7 or 8 skull fractures. Perhaps Anon 3:24 can provide some insight on this. But please don’t give us the “whacked out crackhead” line – this guy was sober.

    BTW, Anon 3:24, are you a police officer? It would be good to hear an officer’s viewpoint on this subject.

  66. david

    Anon 3:24 said:

    “Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.”

    Point taken. Certainly a taser would have no effect on someone wearing a heavy jacket made of leather or other material that is a good electrical insulator.

    “It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions.”

    I think we all appreciate that fact, and appreciate the good police work that is done 99.9% of the time. However, I still fail to understand the need for 7 or 8 skull fractures. Perhaps Anon 3:24 can provide some insight on this. But please don’t give us the “whacked out crackhead” line – this guy was sober.

    BTW, Anon 3:24, are you a police officer? It would be good to hear an officer’s viewpoint on this subject.

  67. david

    Anon 3:24 said:

    “Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.”

    Point taken. Certainly a taser would have no effect on someone wearing a heavy jacket made of leather or other material that is a good electrical insulator.

    “It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions.”

    I think we all appreciate that fact, and appreciate the good police work that is done 99.9% of the time. However, I still fail to understand the need for 7 or 8 skull fractures. Perhaps Anon 3:24 can provide some insight on this. But please don’t give us the “whacked out crackhead” line – this guy was sober.

    BTW, Anon 3:24, are you a police officer? It would be good to hear an officer’s viewpoint on this subject.

  68. david

    Anon 3:24 said:

    “Partially correct, In fact the Taser is not effective with 10% of the population because of various reasons. I have seen subjects tased that were not effected or slightly effected. Very often the ones not effected, were on a controlled substance.”

    Point taken. Certainly a taser would have no effect on someone wearing a heavy jacket made of leather or other material that is a good electrical insulator.

    “It seems very funny that so many of the people on here are quick to judge an officer’s reactions to an event after looking at all the facts and pondering upon them for a while, when the officer usually has less than a second to make the same decisions.”

    I think we all appreciate that fact, and appreciate the good police work that is done 99.9% of the time. However, I still fail to understand the need for 7 or 8 skull fractures. Perhaps Anon 3:24 can provide some insight on this. But please don’t give us the “whacked out crackhead” line – this guy was sober.

    BTW, Anon 3:24, are you a police officer? It would be good to hear an officer’s viewpoint on this subject.

  69. Anonymous

    I posted the statement about 10% of the population does not get effected by the Taser.
    That is 10% where the contacts are solid and no clothing issues have occured.

    Also look at the later posting on Meth induced delirium. These people will actually register as nothing in their system, yet they are whay out here and yes very much a danger to anyone who contacts them. Basically speaking the Meth, or what ever drug of choice has fried their brain beyond repair.

    Also in regards to the baton strikes to the head, This is truely a situation where we need to wait for the investigation to come to light in the courts. Do not make the assumption that it was intentional. If the officer was wrong, then he/she has to live up to that and deal with what will be dealt to him/her. If he/she was not in the wrong, then we all can learn from that…

    NOT saying this is the situation in this case because I am not that familiar with it, however if the officer is using the baton to subdue a suspect, a second suspect get involved and starts to attack the officer, the officer can use deadly force to stop the attack against him. That could include baton strikes to the head. So please let us just wait and see what the full story is here.

    SAH.
    I find it interesting your take. IN the law enforcement community in Yolo County their are several Hispanic officers. I also find your last statement interesting:
    “It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing” Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.

    BTW David, Yes I am an officer. I have been faced with the same situation this officer was faced with, someone upstairs was on my side and I was able to avoid use of force to that level.

    I do not have any false visions that we all walk on water or that we are 100% correct. I just think that we should wait and see. DPD and his crew have been known to make certain comments to spark discussion, good at times. But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public.

  70. Anonymous

    I posted the statement about 10% of the population does not get effected by the Taser.
    That is 10% where the contacts are solid and no clothing issues have occured.

    Also look at the later posting on Meth induced delirium. These people will actually register as nothing in their system, yet they are whay out here and yes very much a danger to anyone who contacts them. Basically speaking the Meth, or what ever drug of choice has fried their brain beyond repair.

    Also in regards to the baton strikes to the head, This is truely a situation where we need to wait for the investigation to come to light in the courts. Do not make the assumption that it was intentional. If the officer was wrong, then he/she has to live up to that and deal with what will be dealt to him/her. If he/she was not in the wrong, then we all can learn from that…

    NOT saying this is the situation in this case because I am not that familiar with it, however if the officer is using the baton to subdue a suspect, a second suspect get involved and starts to attack the officer, the officer can use deadly force to stop the attack against him. That could include baton strikes to the head. So please let us just wait and see what the full story is here.

    SAH.
    I find it interesting your take. IN the law enforcement community in Yolo County their are several Hispanic officers. I also find your last statement interesting:
    “It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing” Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.

    BTW David, Yes I am an officer. I have been faced with the same situation this officer was faced with, someone upstairs was on my side and I was able to avoid use of force to that level.

    I do not have any false visions that we all walk on water or that we are 100% correct. I just think that we should wait and see. DPD and his crew have been known to make certain comments to spark discussion, good at times. But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public.

  71. Anonymous

    I posted the statement about 10% of the population does not get effected by the Taser.
    That is 10% where the contacts are solid and no clothing issues have occured.

    Also look at the later posting on Meth induced delirium. These people will actually register as nothing in their system, yet they are whay out here and yes very much a danger to anyone who contacts them. Basically speaking the Meth, or what ever drug of choice has fried their brain beyond repair.

    Also in regards to the baton strikes to the head, This is truely a situation where we need to wait for the investigation to come to light in the courts. Do not make the assumption that it was intentional. If the officer was wrong, then he/she has to live up to that and deal with what will be dealt to him/her. If he/she was not in the wrong, then we all can learn from that…

    NOT saying this is the situation in this case because I am not that familiar with it, however if the officer is using the baton to subdue a suspect, a second suspect get involved and starts to attack the officer, the officer can use deadly force to stop the attack against him. That could include baton strikes to the head. So please let us just wait and see what the full story is here.

    SAH.
    I find it interesting your take. IN the law enforcement community in Yolo County their are several Hispanic officers. I also find your last statement interesting:
    “It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing” Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.

    BTW David, Yes I am an officer. I have been faced with the same situation this officer was faced with, someone upstairs was on my side and I was able to avoid use of force to that level.

    I do not have any false visions that we all walk on water or that we are 100% correct. I just think that we should wait and see. DPD and his crew have been known to make certain comments to spark discussion, good at times. But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public.

  72. Anonymous

    I posted the statement about 10% of the population does not get effected by the Taser.
    That is 10% where the contacts are solid and no clothing issues have occured.

    Also look at the later posting on Meth induced delirium. These people will actually register as nothing in their system, yet they are whay out here and yes very much a danger to anyone who contacts them. Basically speaking the Meth, or what ever drug of choice has fried their brain beyond repair.

    Also in regards to the baton strikes to the head, This is truely a situation where we need to wait for the investigation to come to light in the courts. Do not make the assumption that it was intentional. If the officer was wrong, then he/she has to live up to that and deal with what will be dealt to him/her. If he/she was not in the wrong, then we all can learn from that…

    NOT saying this is the situation in this case because I am not that familiar with it, however if the officer is using the baton to subdue a suspect, a second suspect get involved and starts to attack the officer, the officer can use deadly force to stop the attack against him. That could include baton strikes to the head. So please let us just wait and see what the full story is here.

    SAH.
    I find it interesting your take. IN the law enforcement community in Yolo County their are several Hispanic officers. I also find your last statement interesting:
    “It will be interesting to see if the Yolo judicial system has the guts to stand up and do the right thing” Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.

    BTW David, Yes I am an officer. I have been faced with the same situation this officer was faced with, someone upstairs was on my side and I was able to avoid use of force to that level.

    I do not have any false visions that we all walk on water or that we are 100% correct. I just think that we should wait and see. DPD and his crew have been known to make certain comments to spark discussion, good at times. But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public.

  73. ACLU Supporter

    “But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public. “

    In your opinion, what discussion should we be having with regards to this?

  74. ACLU Supporter

    “But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public. “

    In your opinion, what discussion should we be having with regards to this?

  75. ACLU Supporter

    “But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public. “

    In your opinion, what discussion should we be having with regards to this?

  76. ACLU Supporter

    “But sometimes they are damaging to open communications between the law enforcement community and the public. “

    In your opinion, what discussion should we be having with regards to this?

  77. SAH

    “Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.”

    To me, the right thing is to have both sided treated equally. In most cases law enforcment is given the benefit of the doubt – and I do not mean 55/45 – it is more like 99/1. If the civilians were wrong then they should be punished (it seems that one was already punished) and if the officers were wrong then they should be punished. I will add, if the officers were wrong then I would expect a little more than ” a learning experience”. I doubt the Justice System in Yolo County has the character to judge this case in a balanced and objective manner.

    I like the idea of “I just think that we should wait and see.” I certainly agree with the notion of due process. However, it seems to me that most police agencies do not follow the practice of getting all of the facts before broadcasting a story about an arrest. There have been times when they knowingly broadcast false information. Anyway I wish police agencies would practice what you are preaching – the concept should go both ways.

  78. SAH

    “Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.”

    To me, the right thing is to have both sided treated equally. In most cases law enforcment is given the benefit of the doubt – and I do not mean 55/45 – it is more like 99/1. If the civilians were wrong then they should be punished (it seems that one was already punished) and if the officers were wrong then they should be punished. I will add, if the officers were wrong then I would expect a little more than ” a learning experience”. I doubt the Justice System in Yolo County has the character to judge this case in a balanced and objective manner.

    I like the idea of “I just think that we should wait and see.” I certainly agree with the notion of due process. However, it seems to me that most police agencies do not follow the practice of getting all of the facts before broadcasting a story about an arrest. There have been times when they knowingly broadcast false information. Anyway I wish police agencies would practice what you are preaching – the concept should go both ways.

  79. SAH

    “Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.”

    To me, the right thing is to have both sided treated equally. In most cases law enforcment is given the benefit of the doubt – and I do not mean 55/45 – it is more like 99/1. If the civilians were wrong then they should be punished (it seems that one was already punished) and if the officers were wrong then they should be punished. I will add, if the officers were wrong then I would expect a little more than ” a learning experience”. I doubt the Justice System in Yolo County has the character to judge this case in a balanced and objective manner.

    I like the idea of “I just think that we should wait and see.” I certainly agree with the notion of due process. However, it seems to me that most police agencies do not follow the practice of getting all of the facts before broadcasting a story about an arrest. There have been times when they knowingly broadcast false information. Anyway I wish police agencies would practice what you are preaching – the concept should go both ways.

  80. SAH

    “Is that the right thing only if the officer was wrong? or the right thing and at the end of the trial the suspects were wrong, then the suspects get punished.”

    To me, the right thing is to have both sided treated equally. In most cases law enforcment is given the benefit of the doubt – and I do not mean 55/45 – it is more like 99/1. If the civilians were wrong then they should be punished (it seems that one was already punished) and if the officers were wrong then they should be punished. I will add, if the officers were wrong then I would expect a little more than ” a learning experience”. I doubt the Justice System in Yolo County has the character to judge this case in a balanced and objective manner.

    I like the idea of “I just think that we should wait and see.” I certainly agree with the notion of due process. However, it seems to me that most police agencies do not follow the practice of getting all of the facts before broadcasting a story about an arrest. There have been times when they knowingly broadcast false information. Anyway I wish police agencies would practice what you are preaching – the concept should go both ways.

  81. Anonymous

    As a Latino I am constantly saddened by the high crime among young latinos. When you read about crimes in the sacbee and our local papers the criminals often have hispanic/mexican surnames.
    The losers, norteno’s and sureno’s cause the majority of these problems in Yolo and Sac county and in many other
    calif counties.
    It is unfortunate that the overwhelming majority are the offspring of hard working honest illegal immigrants. It would be appropriate to shut the border completely for the next 10 to 15 years and weed out the losers before allowing the hordes from the south to invade again. Yep, folks this is real life in action.

  82. Anonymous

    As a Latino I am constantly saddened by the high crime among young latinos. When you read about crimes in the sacbee and our local papers the criminals often have hispanic/mexican surnames.
    The losers, norteno’s and sureno’s cause the majority of these problems in Yolo and Sac county and in many other
    calif counties.
    It is unfortunate that the overwhelming majority are the offspring of hard working honest illegal immigrants. It would be appropriate to shut the border completely for the next 10 to 15 years and weed out the losers before allowing the hordes from the south to invade again. Yep, folks this is real life in action.

  83. Anonymous

    As a Latino I am constantly saddened by the high crime among young latinos. When you read about crimes in the sacbee and our local papers the criminals often have hispanic/mexican surnames.
    The losers, norteno’s and sureno’s cause the majority of these problems in Yolo and Sac county and in many other
    calif counties.
    It is unfortunate that the overwhelming majority are the offspring of hard working honest illegal immigrants. It would be appropriate to shut the border completely for the next 10 to 15 years and weed out the losers before allowing the hordes from the south to invade again. Yep, folks this is real life in action.

  84. Anonymous

    As a Latino I am constantly saddened by the high crime among young latinos. When you read about crimes in the sacbee and our local papers the criminals often have hispanic/mexican surnames.
    The losers, norteno’s and sureno’s cause the majority of these problems in Yolo and Sac county and in many other
    calif counties.
    It is unfortunate that the overwhelming majority are the offspring of hard working honest illegal immigrants. It would be appropriate to shut the border completely for the next 10 to 15 years and weed out the losers before allowing the hordes from the south to invade again. Yep, folks this is real life in action.

  85. Anonymous

    These comments are actually comical to me. I’ve followed this case since 2005 and know the facts, not what is published in the Sacramento Bee or what is said by the defendants attorney. Get a police report people!!!! Where’d you get the idea that drugs weren’t in his system…..Guess we didn’t see the medical intox report. Fermin interviews with the police, “I had to talk with my brother because he was using too much crank and it was ruining his insides….that’s why we were out there by the levee.”

    Naivety is the most crucial downfall in our lives….Police report says that Ernesto was struck 4 times in the head…..Expert confirms that they were deflected blows……3 times with a taser without being subdued……Okay people, NO DRUGS! Gimme a break…..

  86. Anonymous

    These comments are actually comical to me. I’ve followed this case since 2005 and know the facts, not what is published in the Sacramento Bee or what is said by the defendants attorney. Get a police report people!!!! Where’d you get the idea that drugs weren’t in his system…..Guess we didn’t see the medical intox report. Fermin interviews with the police, “I had to talk with my brother because he was using too much crank and it was ruining his insides….that’s why we were out there by the levee.”

    Naivety is the most crucial downfall in our lives….Police report says that Ernesto was struck 4 times in the head…..Expert confirms that they were deflected blows……3 times with a taser without being subdued……Okay people, NO DRUGS! Gimme a break…..

  87. Anonymous

    These comments are actually comical to me. I’ve followed this case since 2005 and know the facts, not what is published in the Sacramento Bee or what is said by the defendants attorney. Get a police report people!!!! Where’d you get the idea that drugs weren’t in his system…..Guess we didn’t see the medical intox report. Fermin interviews with the police, “I had to talk with my brother because he was using too much crank and it was ruining his insides….that’s why we were out there by the levee.”

    Naivety is the most crucial downfall in our lives….Police report says that Ernesto was struck 4 times in the head…..Expert confirms that they were deflected blows……3 times with a taser without being subdued……Okay people, NO DRUGS! Gimme a break…..

  88. Anonymous

    These comments are actually comical to me. I’ve followed this case since 2005 and know the facts, not what is published in the Sacramento Bee or what is said by the defendants attorney. Get a police report people!!!! Where’d you get the idea that drugs weren’t in his system…..Guess we didn’t see the medical intox report. Fermin interviews with the police, “I had to talk with my brother because he was using too much crank and it was ruining his insides….that’s why we were out there by the levee.”

    Naivety is the most crucial downfall in our lives….Police report says that Ernesto was struck 4 times in the head…..Expert confirms that they were deflected blows……3 times with a taser without being subdued……Okay people, NO DRUGS! Gimme a break…..

  89. ACLU Supporter

    Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial. Where did we get the idea that drugs were not found in his system? Court testimony.

  90. ACLU Supporter

    Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial. Where did we get the idea that drugs were not found in his system? Court testimony.

  91. ACLU Supporter

    Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial. Where did we get the idea that drugs were not found in his system? Court testimony.

  92. ACLU Supporter

    Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial. Where did we get the idea that drugs were not found in his system? Court testimony.

  93. Anonymous

    To the ACLU Supporter,
    I forgot…..the Judge always allows all the evidence into the courtroom…..And in your eyes the Police doctor their reports…..My bad, my bad…..I doubt the Jury in this case didn’t get to hear about the defendants legal, or illegal, status in the US…..or his previous encounters with the law as well……But the police are probably lying as you suspect. Hope you never have to call 911 and expect a uniformed liar to show up and help you….Karma is son-of-a-gun

  94. Anonymous

    To the ACLU Supporter,
    I forgot…..the Judge always allows all the evidence into the courtroom…..And in your eyes the Police doctor their reports…..My bad, my bad…..I doubt the Jury in this case didn’t get to hear about the defendants legal, or illegal, status in the US…..or his previous encounters with the law as well……But the police are probably lying as you suspect. Hope you never have to call 911 and expect a uniformed liar to show up and help you….Karma is son-of-a-gun

  95. Anonymous

    To the ACLU Supporter,
    I forgot…..the Judge always allows all the evidence into the courtroom…..And in your eyes the Police doctor their reports…..My bad, my bad…..I doubt the Jury in this case didn’t get to hear about the defendants legal, or illegal, status in the US…..or his previous encounters with the law as well……But the police are probably lying as you suspect. Hope you never have to call 911 and expect a uniformed liar to show up and help you….Karma is son-of-a-gun

  96. Anonymous

    To the ACLU Supporter,
    I forgot…..the Judge always allows all the evidence into the courtroom…..And in your eyes the Police doctor their reports…..My bad, my bad…..I doubt the Jury in this case didn’t get to hear about the defendants legal, or illegal, status in the US…..or his previous encounters with the law as well……But the police are probably lying as you suspect. Hope you never have to call 911 and expect a uniformed liar to show up and help you….Karma is son-of-a-gun

  97. Anonymous

    To Sah,
    You bring up an important point about the “hispanic targeting” by the police in Yolo County. I do believe that Yolo County, especially Woodland, is the Northern Hispanic Gang’s, I think they are called Nortenos,hub. In other words, its where their “shot callers” live and make the gang related decisions on gang violence and such. Look at the ratio of crime, related to race, if you want to start claiming that the Hispanics are being targeted. I think we forget that if we commit a crime, the police are going to contact you. The police don’t have any choice but to….It seems unfortunate that in Yolo County the majority of the crime is being committed by Hispanics–The police don’t control that…..It’s kind of like being in Monterey as one of the responders said…..Not too many Hispanic’s committing crimes there because it’s too expensive to live there….At least if your a gang member! What do you think

  98. Anonymous

    To Sah,
    You bring up an important point about the “hispanic targeting” by the police in Yolo County. I do believe that Yolo County, especially Woodland, is the Northern Hispanic Gang’s, I think they are called Nortenos,hub. In other words, its where their “shot callers” live and make the gang related decisions on gang violence and such. Look at the ratio of crime, related to race, if you want to start claiming that the Hispanics are being targeted. I think we forget that if we commit a crime, the police are going to contact you. The police don’t have any choice but to….It seems unfortunate that in Yolo County the majority of the crime is being committed by Hispanics–The police don’t control that…..It’s kind of like being in Monterey as one of the responders said…..Not too many Hispanic’s committing crimes there because it’s too expensive to live there….At least if your a gang member! What do you think

  99. Anonymous

    To Sah,
    You bring up an important point about the “hispanic targeting” by the police in Yolo County. I do believe that Yolo County, especially Woodland, is the Northern Hispanic Gang’s, I think they are called Nortenos,hub. In other words, its where their “shot callers” live and make the gang related decisions on gang violence and such. Look at the ratio of crime, related to race, if you want to start claiming that the Hispanics are being targeted. I think we forget that if we commit a crime, the police are going to contact you. The police don’t have any choice but to….It seems unfortunate that in Yolo County the majority of the crime is being committed by Hispanics–The police don’t control that…..It’s kind of like being in Monterey as one of the responders said…..Not too many Hispanic’s committing crimes there because it’s too expensive to live there….At least if your a gang member! What do you think

  100. Anonymous

    To Sah,
    You bring up an important point about the “hispanic targeting” by the police in Yolo County. I do believe that Yolo County, especially Woodland, is the Northern Hispanic Gang’s, I think they are called Nortenos,hub. In other words, its where their “shot callers” live and make the gang related decisions on gang violence and such. Look at the ratio of crime, related to race, if you want to start claiming that the Hispanics are being targeted. I think we forget that if we commit a crime, the police are going to contact you. The police don’t have any choice but to….It seems unfortunate that in Yolo County the majority of the crime is being committed by Hispanics–The police don’t control that…..It’s kind of like being in Monterey as one of the responders said…..Not too many Hispanic’s committing crimes there because it’s too expensive to live there….At least if your a gang member! What do you think

  101. Blue Shoe

    To Sah,
    Never been here before but you are soooooo misdirected in your comment that the police get the benefit of the doubt in the courtroom. I think you meant to say that they have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt….remember…..they have the burden to show proof. Better go back to hitting the books SAH. Your one bad experience with a cop doesn’t make you a lawyer, although your basis sounds like those of the defendants lawyers in this case. My buddy was a cop until he got shot in the face on a traffic stop; now he’s dead. At least he went out making a difference and not speculating from his living room about how people are wrong in their actions.

  102. Blue Shoe

    To Sah,
    Never been here before but you are soooooo misdirected in your comment that the police get the benefit of the doubt in the courtroom. I think you meant to say that they have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt….remember…..they have the burden to show proof. Better go back to hitting the books SAH. Your one bad experience with a cop doesn’t make you a lawyer, although your basis sounds like those of the defendants lawyers in this case. My buddy was a cop until he got shot in the face on a traffic stop; now he’s dead. At least he went out making a difference and not speculating from his living room about how people are wrong in their actions.

  103. Blue Shoe

    To Sah,
    Never been here before but you are soooooo misdirected in your comment that the police get the benefit of the doubt in the courtroom. I think you meant to say that they have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt….remember…..they have the burden to show proof. Better go back to hitting the books SAH. Your one bad experience with a cop doesn’t make you a lawyer, although your basis sounds like those of the defendants lawyers in this case. My buddy was a cop until he got shot in the face on a traffic stop; now he’s dead. At least he went out making a difference and not speculating from his living room about how people are wrong in their actions.

  104. Blue Shoe

    To Sah,
    Never been here before but you are soooooo misdirected in your comment that the police get the benefit of the doubt in the courtroom. I think you meant to say that they have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt….remember…..they have the burden to show proof. Better go back to hitting the books SAH. Your one bad experience with a cop doesn’t make you a lawyer, although your basis sounds like those of the defendants lawyers in this case. My buddy was a cop until he got shot in the face on a traffic stop; now he’s dead. At least he went out making a difference and not speculating from his living room about how people are wrong in their actions.

  105. Anonymous

    The prosecutors of Yolo County has the power to dismiss cases that come through their office that does not have the proper evidence to make a conviction so they should be held accountable for all the people they have convicted or is currently charging people in cases that should have been dismissed. What has happen to our criminal justice system? I believe the the DOJ should take at look at several current cases. The prosecutors has the authority to dismiss a case. This mistreatment is being done mostly to low-class people. People who is high class have money to hire a attorney to escape their craws. GOD did not put these type of people in charge to hurt people. He placed them there to help people. This have been very upsetting to people who trusted the criminal justice system. What do we do as a whole to stop madness? What is going to happen if we allow this to contiune. A change is needed ASAP or the same thing could happen to someone you know or to a love one. I know that prosecutors job is to convict people but how can someone convict another human just to defend the police, who has done wrong. If a police takes the stand and lies under oath he/she should lose their jobs if he/she doe not correct it. This is done to protect the police career, people and families has suffer and pay teh price for their mistakes. They are all in this together to win. And if the judges here in this county can’t see what is happening to the people of Yolo County than maybe a Federal judge will. These types of people need to be stop. I asked for help to stop this madness. People if you have incidents that has or is occuring with the police or the prosecutors post it on this website or a e-mail address and I will contact you. I am willing to help all the peole who need help, and don’t worry if you do not have MONEY there is still a way to be helped. Remember this is for our children’s future.

  106. Anonymous

    The prosecutors of Yolo County has the power to dismiss cases that come through their office that does not have the proper evidence to make a conviction so they should be held accountable for all the people they have convicted or is currently charging people in cases that should have been dismissed. What has happen to our criminal justice system? I believe the the DOJ should take at look at several current cases. The prosecutors has the authority to dismiss a case. This mistreatment is being done mostly to low-class people. People who is high class have money to hire a attorney to escape their craws. GOD did not put these type of people in charge to hurt people. He placed them there to help people. This have been very upsetting to people who trusted the criminal justice system. What do we do as a whole to stop madness? What is going to happen if we allow this to contiune. A change is needed ASAP or the same thing could happen to someone you know or to a love one. I know that prosecutors job is to convict people but how can someone convict another human just to defend the police, who has done wrong. If a police takes the stand and lies under oath he/she should lose their jobs if he/she doe not correct it. This is done to protect the police career, people and families has suffer and pay teh price for their mistakes. They are all in this together to win. And if the judges here in this county can’t see what is happening to the people of Yolo County than maybe a Federal judge will. These types of people need to be stop. I asked for help to stop this madness. People if you have incidents that has or is occuring with the police or the prosecutors post it on this website or a e-mail address and I will contact you. I am willing to help all the peole who need help, and don’t worry if you do not have MONEY there is still a way to be helped. Remember this is for our children’s future.

  107. Anonymous

    The prosecutors of Yolo County has the power to dismiss cases that come through their office that does not have the proper evidence to make a conviction so they should be held accountable for all the people they have convicted or is currently charging people in cases that should have been dismissed. What has happen to our criminal justice system? I believe the the DOJ should take at look at several current cases. The prosecutors has the authority to dismiss a case. This mistreatment is being done mostly to low-class people. People who is high class have money to hire a attorney to escape their craws. GOD did not put these type of people in charge to hurt people. He placed them there to help people. This have been very upsetting to people who trusted the criminal justice system. What do we do as a whole to stop madness? What is going to happen if we allow this to contiune. A change is needed ASAP or the same thing could happen to someone you know or to a love one. I know that prosecutors job is to convict people but how can someone convict another human just to defend the police, who has done wrong. If a police takes the stand and lies under oath he/she should lose their jobs if he/she doe not correct it. This is done to protect the police career, people and families has suffer and pay teh price for their mistakes. They are all in this together to win. And if the judges here in this county can’t see what is happening to the people of Yolo County than maybe a Federal judge will. These types of people need to be stop. I asked for help to stop this madness. People if you have incidents that has or is occuring with the police or the prosecutors post it on this website or a e-mail address and I will contact you. I am willing to help all the peole who need help, and don’t worry if you do not have MONEY there is still a way to be helped. Remember this is for our children’s future.

  108. Anonymous

    The prosecutors of Yolo County has the power to dismiss cases that come through their office that does not have the proper evidence to make a conviction so they should be held accountable for all the people they have convicted or is currently charging people in cases that should have been dismissed. What has happen to our criminal justice system? I believe the the DOJ should take at look at several current cases. The prosecutors has the authority to dismiss a case. This mistreatment is being done mostly to low-class people. People who is high class have money to hire a attorney to escape their craws. GOD did not put these type of people in charge to hurt people. He placed them there to help people. This have been very upsetting to people who trusted the criminal justice system. What do we do as a whole to stop madness? What is going to happen if we allow this to contiune. A change is needed ASAP or the same thing could happen to someone you know or to a love one. I know that prosecutors job is to convict people but how can someone convict another human just to defend the police, who has done wrong. If a police takes the stand and lies under oath he/she should lose their jobs if he/she doe not correct it. This is done to protect the police career, people and families has suffer and pay teh price for their mistakes. They are all in this together to win. And if the judges here in this county can’t see what is happening to the people of Yolo County than maybe a Federal judge will. These types of people need to be stop. I asked for help to stop this madness. People if you have incidents that has or is occuring with the police or the prosecutors post it on this website or a e-mail address and I will contact you. I am willing to help all the peole who need help, and don’t worry if you do not have MONEY there is still a way to be helped. Remember this is for our children’s future.

  109. Blue Shoe

    Anonymous said, “Stop the Madness”

    So I ask you Mr. or Ms. unintelligent one who can’t correctly formulate a sentence, What did the Police do wrong in this case. The only other option was for the Police to let the brother kill them or use lethal force against him.

    You obviously have connections with groups that can help people. Why don’t you start with walking the neighborhoods after dark in Woodland. Put on your best blue shirt, blue hat, and blue pants. Walk in the areas of Oak and 2nd St. Try to get people to come out and talk to you about being mistreated. You won’t have to try very hard because the norteno gang members, those that dress in red, will meet you before you get to their doors…..Don’t call the police though because you know that they are just incahoots with the legal system. Just lay there after the wrath and wonder if your cause was justified or if you were just a bafoon. Good luck

  110. Blue Shoe

    Anonymous said, “Stop the Madness”

    So I ask you Mr. or Ms. unintelligent one who can’t correctly formulate a sentence, What did the Police do wrong in this case. The only other option was for the Police to let the brother kill them or use lethal force against him.

    You obviously have connections with groups that can help people. Why don’t you start with walking the neighborhoods after dark in Woodland. Put on your best blue shirt, blue hat, and blue pants. Walk in the areas of Oak and 2nd St. Try to get people to come out and talk to you about being mistreated. You won’t have to try very hard because the norteno gang members, those that dress in red, will meet you before you get to their doors…..Don’t call the police though because you know that they are just incahoots with the legal system. Just lay there after the wrath and wonder if your cause was justified or if you were just a bafoon. Good luck

  111. Blue Shoe

    Anonymous said, “Stop the Madness”

    So I ask you Mr. or Ms. unintelligent one who can’t correctly formulate a sentence, What did the Police do wrong in this case. The only other option was for the Police to let the brother kill them or use lethal force against him.

    You obviously have connections with groups that can help people. Why don’t you start with walking the neighborhoods after dark in Woodland. Put on your best blue shirt, blue hat, and blue pants. Walk in the areas of Oak and 2nd St. Try to get people to come out and talk to you about being mistreated. You won’t have to try very hard because the norteno gang members, those that dress in red, will meet you before you get to their doors…..Don’t call the police though because you know that they are just incahoots with the legal system. Just lay there after the wrath and wonder if your cause was justified or if you were just a bafoon. Good luck

  112. Blue Shoe

    Anonymous said, “Stop the Madness”

    So I ask you Mr. or Ms. unintelligent one who can’t correctly formulate a sentence, What did the Police do wrong in this case. The only other option was for the Police to let the brother kill them or use lethal force against him.

    You obviously have connections with groups that can help people. Why don’t you start with walking the neighborhoods after dark in Woodland. Put on your best blue shirt, blue hat, and blue pants. Walk in the areas of Oak and 2nd St. Try to get people to come out and talk to you about being mistreated. You won’t have to try very hard because the norteno gang members, those that dress in red, will meet you before you get to their doors…..Don’t call the police though because you know that they are just incahoots with the legal system. Just lay there after the wrath and wonder if your cause was justified or if you were just a bafoon. Good luck

  113. Mad Fuse

    To the ACLU supporter who claims that he/she did not say that the police doctored the evidence….

    You most certainly did say that. In your sarcastic comment that, “The police report contained all the facts.”

    I’m an ACLU supporter as well, but I’m also very realistic. The Amercan Civil Liberties Union… It represents just that and unfortunately people like you have made the Union very critical of the police and all the good that comes from them. I live in San Francisco and if the police were not around to govern the laws, the city would have been lost long ago….And yes, I’m a minority…

  114. Mad Fuse

    To the ACLU supporter who claims that he/she did not say that the police doctored the evidence….

    You most certainly did say that. In your sarcastic comment that, “The police report contained all the facts.”

    I’m an ACLU supporter as well, but I’m also very realistic. The Amercan Civil Liberties Union… It represents just that and unfortunately people like you have made the Union very critical of the police and all the good that comes from them. I live in San Francisco and if the police were not around to govern the laws, the city would have been lost long ago….And yes, I’m a minority…

  115. Mad Fuse

    To the ACLU supporter who claims that he/she did not say that the police doctored the evidence….

    You most certainly did say that. In your sarcastic comment that, “The police report contained all the facts.”

    I’m an ACLU supporter as well, but I’m also very realistic. The Amercan Civil Liberties Union… It represents just that and unfortunately people like you have made the Union very critical of the police and all the good that comes from them. I live in San Francisco and if the police were not around to govern the laws, the city would have been lost long ago….And yes, I’m a minority…

  116. Mad Fuse

    To the ACLU supporter who claims that he/she did not say that the police doctored the evidence….

    You most certainly did say that. In your sarcastic comment that, “The police report contained all the facts.”

    I’m an ACLU supporter as well, but I’m also very realistic. The Amercan Civil Liberties Union… It represents just that and unfortunately people like you have made the Union very critical of the police and all the good that comes from them. I live in San Francisco and if the police were not around to govern the laws, the city would have been lost long ago….And yes, I’m a minority…

  117. ACLU Supporter

    What I said was: “Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial.”

    That does not mean I said they “doctored facts” only that police reports, which I have worked extensively which over the years are not objective documents, they are part of the prosecution’s case and often filled with bias, inaccuracies, and omissions. None of which means they are doctored. Please do not put words into my mouth.

  118. ACLU Supporter

    What I said was: “Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial.”

    That does not mean I said they “doctored facts” only that police reports, which I have worked extensively which over the years are not objective documents, they are part of the prosecution’s case and often filled with bias, inaccuracies, and omissions. None of which means they are doctored. Please do not put words into my mouth.

  119. ACLU Supporter

    What I said was: “Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial.”

    That does not mean I said they “doctored facts” only that police reports, which I have worked extensively which over the years are not objective documents, they are part of the prosecution’s case and often filled with bias, inaccuracies, and omissions. None of which means they are doctored. Please do not put words into my mouth.

  120. ACLU Supporter

    What I said was: “Oh the police report–that ought to be unbiased and impartial.”

    That does not mean I said they “doctored facts” only that police reports, which I have worked extensively which over the years are not objective documents, they are part of the prosecution’s case and often filled with bias, inaccuracies, and omissions. None of which means they are doctored. Please do not put words into my mouth.

  121. ACLU Supporter

    Both Blue Shoe and Anonymous–I am concerned with your statements. The individual who wrote this is clearly not a well educated person with a college degree, is that a reason to doubt the veracity of their claims?

  122. ACLU Supporter

    Both Blue Shoe and Anonymous–I am concerned with your statements. The individual who wrote this is clearly not a well educated person with a college degree, is that a reason to doubt the veracity of their claims?

  123. ACLU Supporter

    Both Blue Shoe and Anonymous–I am concerned with your statements. The individual who wrote this is clearly not a well educated person with a college degree, is that a reason to doubt the veracity of their claims?

  124. ACLU Supporter

    Both Blue Shoe and Anonymous–I am concerned with your statements. The individual who wrote this is clearly not a well educated person with a college degree, is that a reason to doubt the veracity of their claims?

  125. Mad Fuse

    The police reports that are written are not done by the prosecution, they are done by the police….By your statements of omissions, inaccuracies, etc found in the police reports, you are most definately saying that they are doctored…..If you say it, stick by it…IF you can’t, then don’t say it. Were you there by the way? How do you know the police reports were full of these inaccuracies? Naw, that’s what I thought….You are just another one of those guys who speculates from his office about how bad the police are and how right the defendants are.

  126. Mad Fuse

    The police reports that are written are not done by the prosecution, they are done by the police….By your statements of omissions, inaccuracies, etc found in the police reports, you are most definately saying that they are doctored…..If you say it, stick by it…IF you can’t, then don’t say it. Were you there by the way? How do you know the police reports were full of these inaccuracies? Naw, that’s what I thought….You are just another one of those guys who speculates from his office about how bad the police are and how right the defendants are.

  127. Mad Fuse

    The police reports that are written are not done by the prosecution, they are done by the police….By your statements of omissions, inaccuracies, etc found in the police reports, you are most definately saying that they are doctored…..If you say it, stick by it…IF you can’t, then don’t say it. Were you there by the way? How do you know the police reports were full of these inaccuracies? Naw, that’s what I thought….You are just another one of those guys who speculates from his office about how bad the police are and how right the defendants are.

  128. Mad Fuse

    The police reports that are written are not done by the prosecution, they are done by the police….By your statements of omissions, inaccuracies, etc found in the police reports, you are most definately saying that they are doctored…..If you say it, stick by it…IF you can’t, then don’t say it. Were you there by the way? How do you know the police reports were full of these inaccuracies? Naw, that’s what I thought….You are just another one of those guys who speculates from his office about how bad the police are and how right the defendants are.

  129. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter…..This topic is very educated and in order to comment on it, one should be the same. If you are going to try and ruse a group to take down the court system in Yolo County, then one should be educated…Don’t you agree? Should we listen to someone who does not have any idea about the regulation of our rights, or the statutes within our legal system? Gimme a break….Go give a dollar to the guy on the street corner to watch your kids for the day.

  130. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter…..This topic is very educated and in order to comment on it, one should be the same. If you are going to try and ruse a group to take down the court system in Yolo County, then one should be educated…Don’t you agree? Should we listen to someone who does not have any idea about the regulation of our rights, or the statutes within our legal system? Gimme a break….Go give a dollar to the guy on the street corner to watch your kids for the day.

  131. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter…..This topic is very educated and in order to comment on it, one should be the same. If you are going to try and ruse a group to take down the court system in Yolo County, then one should be educated…Don’t you agree? Should we listen to someone who does not have any idea about the regulation of our rights, or the statutes within our legal system? Gimme a break….Go give a dollar to the guy on the street corner to watch your kids for the day.

  132. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter…..This topic is very educated and in order to comment on it, one should be the same. If you are going to try and ruse a group to take down the court system in Yolo County, then one should be educated…Don’t you agree? Should we listen to someone who does not have any idea about the regulation of our rights, or the statutes within our legal system? Gimme a break….Go give a dollar to the guy on the street corner to watch your kids for the day.

  133. ACLU Supporter

    What I think we should do is not have an inherent bias against someone who might only have an 8th grade or a 12th grade education. That doesn’t mean what they are telling us is false.

    I want to address another point here, I work with police officers quite a bit in my line of work. I have a good deal of respect for them most of the time. I have to tell you that many of them won’t say anything in public but they shake their heads privately when they look at this case and wonder how it got to the point where it did.

    Just as the issue of the police report represents what I think are errors of omission rather than commission, most police problems result from lack of preparation and training rather than out of malice.

    Unfortunately when we step out and defend police officers because they have a difficult job, we also miss a chance to address systemic problems that I believe are major impediments toward police officers doing their job better.

  134. ACLU Supporter

    What I think we should do is not have an inherent bias against someone who might only have an 8th grade or a 12th grade education. That doesn’t mean what they are telling us is false.

    I want to address another point here, I work with police officers quite a bit in my line of work. I have a good deal of respect for them most of the time. I have to tell you that many of them won’t say anything in public but they shake their heads privately when they look at this case and wonder how it got to the point where it did.

    Just as the issue of the police report represents what I think are errors of omission rather than commission, most police problems result from lack of preparation and training rather than out of malice.

    Unfortunately when we step out and defend police officers because they have a difficult job, we also miss a chance to address systemic problems that I believe are major impediments toward police officers doing their job better.

  135. ACLU Supporter

    What I think we should do is not have an inherent bias against someone who might only have an 8th grade or a 12th grade education. That doesn’t mean what they are telling us is false.

    I want to address another point here, I work with police officers quite a bit in my line of work. I have a good deal of respect for them most of the time. I have to tell you that many of them won’t say anything in public but they shake their heads privately when they look at this case and wonder how it got to the point where it did.

    Just as the issue of the police report represents what I think are errors of omission rather than commission, most police problems result from lack of preparation and training rather than out of malice.

    Unfortunately when we step out and defend police officers because they have a difficult job, we also miss a chance to address systemic problems that I believe are major impediments toward police officers doing their job better.

  136. ACLU Supporter

    What I think we should do is not have an inherent bias against someone who might only have an 8th grade or a 12th grade education. That doesn’t mean what they are telling us is false.

    I want to address another point here, I work with police officers quite a bit in my line of work. I have a good deal of respect for them most of the time. I have to tell you that many of them won’t say anything in public but they shake their heads privately when they look at this case and wonder how it got to the point where it did.

    Just as the issue of the police report represents what I think are errors of omission rather than commission, most police problems result from lack of preparation and training rather than out of malice.

    Unfortunately when we step out and defend police officers because they have a difficult job, we also miss a chance to address systemic problems that I believe are major impediments toward police officers doing their job better.

  137. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter said that he works will police officers who just shake their head and wonder how it got to that point.

    The police officers that may be undermining or “monday morning” quarterbacking the officers involved in this case are probably ones that have never been in a fight for their life where their attacker is feeling no pain. I can’t agree with you more that the normal person can not understand how a subject could withstand a baton strike, let alone several. The only type of person capable of doing so is one that is not feeling the blows; hence the idea of someone under the influence of a substance. The PCP person who fights with both his arms broken is a sight..have these officers that you work alongside ever seen that…The man that jumps from a 3 story building, breaks both legs and ankles, and is able to get up and run…have these officers seen that? The body, when its sensory system is shorted out by drugs, can withstand a lot, obviously. The person who gets struck by a vehicle while running down the road and then gets up and continues to run…Who knows? I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced these things and I definately would not have wanted to be the police officer(s) who had to engage one of these individuals.

  138. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter said that he works will police officers who just shake their head and wonder how it got to that point.

    The police officers that may be undermining or “monday morning” quarterbacking the officers involved in this case are probably ones that have never been in a fight for their life where their attacker is feeling no pain. I can’t agree with you more that the normal person can not understand how a subject could withstand a baton strike, let alone several. The only type of person capable of doing so is one that is not feeling the blows; hence the idea of someone under the influence of a substance. The PCP person who fights with both his arms broken is a sight..have these officers that you work alongside ever seen that…The man that jumps from a 3 story building, breaks both legs and ankles, and is able to get up and run…have these officers seen that? The body, when its sensory system is shorted out by drugs, can withstand a lot, obviously. The person who gets struck by a vehicle while running down the road and then gets up and continues to run…Who knows? I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced these things and I definately would not have wanted to be the police officer(s) who had to engage one of these individuals.

  139. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter said that he works will police officers who just shake their head and wonder how it got to that point.

    The police officers that may be undermining or “monday morning” quarterbacking the officers involved in this case are probably ones that have never been in a fight for their life where their attacker is feeling no pain. I can’t agree with you more that the normal person can not understand how a subject could withstand a baton strike, let alone several. The only type of person capable of doing so is one that is not feeling the blows; hence the idea of someone under the influence of a substance. The PCP person who fights with both his arms broken is a sight..have these officers that you work alongside ever seen that…The man that jumps from a 3 story building, breaks both legs and ankles, and is able to get up and run…have these officers seen that? The body, when its sensory system is shorted out by drugs, can withstand a lot, obviously. The person who gets struck by a vehicle while running down the road and then gets up and continues to run…Who knows? I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced these things and I definately would not have wanted to be the police officer(s) who had to engage one of these individuals.

  140. Blue Shoe

    ACLU supporter said that he works will police officers who just shake their head and wonder how it got to that point.

    The police officers that may be undermining or “monday morning” quarterbacking the officers involved in this case are probably ones that have never been in a fight for their life where their attacker is feeling no pain. I can’t agree with you more that the normal person can not understand how a subject could withstand a baton strike, let alone several. The only type of person capable of doing so is one that is not feeling the blows; hence the idea of someone under the influence of a substance. The PCP person who fights with both his arms broken is a sight..have these officers that you work alongside ever seen that…The man that jumps from a 3 story building, breaks both legs and ankles, and is able to get up and run…have these officers seen that? The body, when its sensory system is shorted out by drugs, can withstand a lot, obviously. The person who gets struck by a vehicle while running down the road and then gets up and continues to run…Who knows? I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced these things and I definately would not have wanted to be the police officer(s) who had to engage one of these individuals.

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