Containerizing Green Waste in Davis

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When I first came to Davis in the mid-1990s, I was very surprised that in a such a bicycle friendly community, indeed a community that prided itself on being innovative in terms of bicycle lanes and the amount of bicycle traffic, would put their clippings on the side of streets to be picked up.
The problem of course should be rather obvious, dropping large amounts of clippings on the side of streets often means that debris ends up in the bike lanes. Particularly on streets where there is no street side parking, this can become rather dangerous for bicyclists. What ends up happening is that bikers will have to move into traffic to avoid the piles of branches or leaves. This causes a hazard for both the bicyclists and cars, especially when the bicyclist does not fully stop or look before they swerve to avoid the green waste clippings. There is a further danger that often as a bicyclist may not see some of the clippings or notice the obstruction until too late–particularly at dusk and dawn.

This has been a problem for quite sometime, but the city is finally looking to do something about it. Here is a full description of what is being called the Green Waste Containerization Pilot Program.

It is a temporary program that is scheduled to begin in January to assess whether requiring people to put their green waste into 96 gallon containers is a good idea.

Here are the listed features of the program courtesy of the City of Davis website:

  • Each parcel will receive one 96-gallon, wheeled green waste cart at no additional charge. If you find one 96-gallon cart is not enough, a 2nd one may be requested free of charge. For each additional cart over 2, there will be an additional $2.16 per month. Cart distribution is estimated to be late January or February 2008.
  • Cart-only pick up between January 16 and October 14. Carts with green waste in them must be put in the gutter by 7 a.m. on collection day. January through October excess green waste cannot be put loose in the street.
  • Loose in the street-only pick up from October 15 to January 15. During this heavy leaf drop season, all green waste should be placed in the street. No carts will be picked up during this 3 month period.
  • All green waste pick up in the pilot area will be on Tuesday. For some, this means a change in the green waste pick up day; however, this change allows for the most efficient use of the trucks and crews needed to pick up the carts using an automated system. (NOTE: this change affects green waste collection only; your trash and recycling collection day will still be on your regular scheduled day.)
  • Once a week street sweeping will continue.
  • The pilot test will run for a minimum of twelve (12) months, and using carts is mandatory so the pilot can operate efficiently and bike safety is improved along the street.
Now this pilot program does not affect the entire city. The pilot program covers only 12 streets, all of which appear to be main north-south thoroughfares. I notice there are some problems areas such as Arlington Blvd, that they do not cover in the pilot program.

Like most things in Davis, of course, there is controversy. The Natural Resources Commission met Monday Night, and by a 6-0-1 vote rejected the pilot program. There were a number of objections to it, ranging from the difficulty of placing waste in the containers, to the amount of clippings from the old growth trees in core areas of town, etc.

To be clear, the Natural Resources Commission examines this from the perspective of natural resources rather than bicycle safety.

I am not necessarily wedded to the idea that the clippings must be containerized. Although I know a number of communities who have done it for years without much complaint or problem. Frankly I think some of the objection is due to the effort involved in breaking down the branches and placing them into some sort of receptacle. Some people at the meeting on Monday suggested that this would simply discourage them from upkeep on the old growth trees in the core of town.

Some alternative ideas did emerge such as striping the bike lanes, so that instead of a single line, they are double lined and that all waste much be placed inside of the inner line. That sounds like an interesting compromise but it presents its own problems. First, a number of streets do not have street side parking, so you could not place anything inside a second line because the bike lane abuts the curb. Second, the city would have to enforce the rules in order to gain compliance. Without enforcement residents would simply allow their clippings to run into the bike lane when it was convenient. Finally, even limiting the space to the clippings inside the bike lane runs into problems because often the clippings end up taking up parking spaces and parking is rather limited especially within the core area. So bicycle safety while important is not the only factor here.

As I suggest, I am not wedded to the notion of containerizing green waste, I am however, convinced that some of the alternatives are not workable on all streets. I remain open to other solutions. I am also somewhat disappointed that the pilot program is needed, this has been a problem for a long time and it does not seem like it should be a problem. Most other communities have found other ways to dispose of their green waste without it becoming a needless bicycle hazard.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

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About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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288 thoughts on “Containerizing Green Waste in Davis”

  1. davisite

    This plan would effectively drive out of business the small tree trimmers who do not have trucks or chippers to haul away the tree limbs. Homeowners who take care of their own trees(and often the city’s trees on their property as well) will have great difficulty continuing to care for our urban forest. The Tree Commission needs to weigh in on this as Davis trees will be negatively impacted. A system where one could call DWR and be put on a list for the day that tree limbs are removed from the street with the “claw”(homeowners free and perhaps a charge for commercial landscape/tree trimmer operations) would solve this problem. The elderly homeowners(who often are the most diligent in keeping their properties immaculate)will have difficulty getting the material into these high receptacles. I would like to see the history of the number of bike accidents/year directly related to bike lane obstruction. by green waste.

  2. davisite

    This plan would effectively drive out of business the small tree trimmers who do not have trucks or chippers to haul away the tree limbs. Homeowners who take care of their own trees(and often the city’s trees on their property as well) will have great difficulty continuing to care for our urban forest. The Tree Commission needs to weigh in on this as Davis trees will be negatively impacted. A system where one could call DWR and be put on a list for the day that tree limbs are removed from the street with the “claw”(homeowners free and perhaps a charge for commercial landscape/tree trimmer operations) would solve this problem. The elderly homeowners(who often are the most diligent in keeping their properties immaculate)will have difficulty getting the material into these high receptacles. I would like to see the history of the number of bike accidents/year directly related to bike lane obstruction. by green waste.

  3. davisite

    This plan would effectively drive out of business the small tree trimmers who do not have trucks or chippers to haul away the tree limbs. Homeowners who take care of their own trees(and often the city’s trees on their property as well) will have great difficulty continuing to care for our urban forest. The Tree Commission needs to weigh in on this as Davis trees will be negatively impacted. A system where one could call DWR and be put on a list for the day that tree limbs are removed from the street with the “claw”(homeowners free and perhaps a charge for commercial landscape/tree trimmer operations) would solve this problem. The elderly homeowners(who often are the most diligent in keeping their properties immaculate)will have difficulty getting the material into these high receptacles. I would like to see the history of the number of bike accidents/year directly related to bike lane obstruction. by green waste.

  4. davisite

    This plan would effectively drive out of business the small tree trimmers who do not have trucks or chippers to haul away the tree limbs. Homeowners who take care of their own trees(and often the city’s trees on their property as well) will have great difficulty continuing to care for our urban forest. The Tree Commission needs to weigh in on this as Davis trees will be negatively impacted. A system where one could call DWR and be put on a list for the day that tree limbs are removed from the street with the “claw”(homeowners free and perhaps a charge for commercial landscape/tree trimmer operations) would solve this problem. The elderly homeowners(who often are the most diligent in keeping their properties immaculate)will have difficulty getting the material into these high receptacles. I would like to see the history of the number of bike accidents/year directly related to bike lane obstruction. by green waste.

  5. Anonymous

    Containerizing green waste is ridiculous! This would work if you have a postage stamp apartment yard., or only potted plants. Then if you have that where can you store the 96 gallon container on top of the recycling and garbage cans…. We would need usually three or more containers and then would spend all day chopping the stuff into neat little bundles to fit into the containers. Compost is great for the yards that have enough green and dry waste to not have a rotting pile. This usually means older yards. Compost worked great in our older yard in a newer yard we got smelly rot that was too wet to compost without having a large enough place to have big piles and now using (or not using drums). Green piles on the streets are far less of a hazard than the cars parked and opening doors.

    BALANCE

  6. Anonymous

    Containerizing green waste is ridiculous! This would work if you have a postage stamp apartment yard., or only potted plants. Then if you have that where can you store the 96 gallon container on top of the recycling and garbage cans…. We would need usually three or more containers and then would spend all day chopping the stuff into neat little bundles to fit into the containers. Compost is great for the yards that have enough green and dry waste to not have a rotting pile. This usually means older yards. Compost worked great in our older yard in a newer yard we got smelly rot that was too wet to compost without having a large enough place to have big piles and now using (or not using drums). Green piles on the streets are far less of a hazard than the cars parked and opening doors.

    BALANCE

  7. Anonymous

    Containerizing green waste is ridiculous! This would work if you have a postage stamp apartment yard., or only potted plants. Then if you have that where can you store the 96 gallon container on top of the recycling and garbage cans…. We would need usually three or more containers and then would spend all day chopping the stuff into neat little bundles to fit into the containers. Compost is great for the yards that have enough green and dry waste to not have a rotting pile. This usually means older yards. Compost worked great in our older yard in a newer yard we got smelly rot that was too wet to compost without having a large enough place to have big piles and now using (or not using drums). Green piles on the streets are far less of a hazard than the cars parked and opening doors.

    BALANCE

  8. Anonymous

    Containerizing green waste is ridiculous! This would work if you have a postage stamp apartment yard., or only potted plants. Then if you have that where can you store the 96 gallon container on top of the recycling and garbage cans…. We would need usually three or more containers and then would spend all day chopping the stuff into neat little bundles to fit into the containers. Compost is great for the yards that have enough green and dry waste to not have a rotting pile. This usually means older yards. Compost worked great in our older yard in a newer yard we got smelly rot that was too wet to compost without having a large enough place to have big piles and now using (or not using drums). Green piles on the streets are far less of a hazard than the cars parked and opening doors.

    BALANCE

  9. Diane

    Why is this such a problem in the 2nd most educated town? Only in Davis does this become a big issue.

    People cannot put their clippings in a container? Pardon my expression, but “Gimme a break.”

    Observations:

    1. If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?

    2. Not only is this a problem for cyclists, but for parking, people walking, it makes the neighborhood look bad, and when there is some wind it gets all over the place.

    3. This will not drive out small businesses that trim trees, as a matter of fact it may increase their business.

    4. I would like to see the city require this of all apartment buildings as well. Driving around town one can see that apartment owners/managers get lazy and trimmings sit for awhile and don’t get properly disposed of.

    This also happens with home owners too.

    It’s about time that the City of Davis does something about this. It’s simple and it is something that has been needed to be done for a long time. It should take place all over the city and should not have to be a pilot project.

    Are we going to have to do a survey on this soon?

    Good article Vanguard.

  10. Diane

    Why is this such a problem in the 2nd most educated town? Only in Davis does this become a big issue.

    People cannot put their clippings in a container? Pardon my expression, but “Gimme a break.”

    Observations:

    1. If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?

    2. Not only is this a problem for cyclists, but for parking, people walking, it makes the neighborhood look bad, and when there is some wind it gets all over the place.

    3. This will not drive out small businesses that trim trees, as a matter of fact it may increase their business.

    4. I would like to see the city require this of all apartment buildings as well. Driving around town one can see that apartment owners/managers get lazy and trimmings sit for awhile and don’t get properly disposed of.

    This also happens with home owners too.

    It’s about time that the City of Davis does something about this. It’s simple and it is something that has been needed to be done for a long time. It should take place all over the city and should not have to be a pilot project.

    Are we going to have to do a survey on this soon?

    Good article Vanguard.

  11. Diane

    Why is this such a problem in the 2nd most educated town? Only in Davis does this become a big issue.

    People cannot put their clippings in a container? Pardon my expression, but “Gimme a break.”

    Observations:

    1. If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?

    2. Not only is this a problem for cyclists, but for parking, people walking, it makes the neighborhood look bad, and when there is some wind it gets all over the place.

    3. This will not drive out small businesses that trim trees, as a matter of fact it may increase their business.

    4. I would like to see the city require this of all apartment buildings as well. Driving around town one can see that apartment owners/managers get lazy and trimmings sit for awhile and don’t get properly disposed of.

    This also happens with home owners too.

    It’s about time that the City of Davis does something about this. It’s simple and it is something that has been needed to be done for a long time. It should take place all over the city and should not have to be a pilot project.

    Are we going to have to do a survey on this soon?

    Good article Vanguard.

  12. Diane

    Why is this such a problem in the 2nd most educated town? Only in Davis does this become a big issue.

    People cannot put their clippings in a container? Pardon my expression, but “Gimme a break.”

    Observations:

    1. If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?

    2. Not only is this a problem for cyclists, but for parking, people walking, it makes the neighborhood look bad, and when there is some wind it gets all over the place.

    3. This will not drive out small businesses that trim trees, as a matter of fact it may increase their business.

    4. I would like to see the city require this of all apartment buildings as well. Driving around town one can see that apartment owners/managers get lazy and trimmings sit for awhile and don’t get properly disposed of.

    This also happens with home owners too.

    It’s about time that the City of Davis does something about this. It’s simple and it is something that has been needed to be done for a long time. It should take place all over the city and should not have to be a pilot project.

    Are we going to have to do a survey on this soon?

    Good article Vanguard.

  13. Anonymous

    It is about time we containerized our green waste. Most other cities do, what are we waiting for? Yes, there are big issues with green waste entering our waste water and it is not just about clogging, it is also about chemicals on the green waste entering the waste water.

    But aside from that, leaves and clippings and branches are a hazard to bicyclists and walkers, cars often drive over the piles and drag the waste all over the place, winds blow it all over other people’s yards and the street, and it is just plain unsightly.

    It is high time we containerized our waste. The container is no higher than our current garbage containers, so if older folks (and I am one) can use those, there should be no problem using the green waste container.

    The argument that it would drive small tree trimmers out of business is crazy. I have had a number of small tree trimming businesses work on my yard over the years, and all had at least a pick up or open bed trailer to haul off limbs.

    I am really surprised the NRC opposed this!

    Good article.

  14. Anonymous

    It is about time we containerized our green waste. Most other cities do, what are we waiting for? Yes, there are big issues with green waste entering our waste water and it is not just about clogging, it is also about chemicals on the green waste entering the waste water.

    But aside from that, leaves and clippings and branches are a hazard to bicyclists and walkers, cars often drive over the piles and drag the waste all over the place, winds blow it all over other people’s yards and the street, and it is just plain unsightly.

    It is high time we containerized our waste. The container is no higher than our current garbage containers, so if older folks (and I am one) can use those, there should be no problem using the green waste container.

    The argument that it would drive small tree trimmers out of business is crazy. I have had a number of small tree trimming businesses work on my yard over the years, and all had at least a pick up or open bed trailer to haul off limbs.

    I am really surprised the NRC opposed this!

    Good article.

  15. Anonymous

    It is about time we containerized our green waste. Most other cities do, what are we waiting for? Yes, there are big issues with green waste entering our waste water and it is not just about clogging, it is also about chemicals on the green waste entering the waste water.

    But aside from that, leaves and clippings and branches are a hazard to bicyclists and walkers, cars often drive over the piles and drag the waste all over the place, winds blow it all over other people’s yards and the street, and it is just plain unsightly.

    It is high time we containerized our waste. The container is no higher than our current garbage containers, so if older folks (and I am one) can use those, there should be no problem using the green waste container.

    The argument that it would drive small tree trimmers out of business is crazy. I have had a number of small tree trimming businesses work on my yard over the years, and all had at least a pick up or open bed trailer to haul off limbs.

    I am really surprised the NRC opposed this!

    Good article.

  16. Anonymous

    It is about time we containerized our green waste. Most other cities do, what are we waiting for? Yes, there are big issues with green waste entering our waste water and it is not just about clogging, it is also about chemicals on the green waste entering the waste water.

    But aside from that, leaves and clippings and branches are a hazard to bicyclists and walkers, cars often drive over the piles and drag the waste all over the place, winds blow it all over other people’s yards and the street, and it is just plain unsightly.

    It is high time we containerized our waste. The container is no higher than our current garbage containers, so if older folks (and I am one) can use those, there should be no problem using the green waste container.

    The argument that it would drive small tree trimmers out of business is crazy. I have had a number of small tree trimming businesses work on my yard over the years, and all had at least a pick up or open bed trailer to haul off limbs.

    I am really surprised the NRC opposed this!

    Good article.

  17. Anonymous

    At the end of the day, this is all about lowering the cost of operations for DWR. This is not a reason to reject it out-of-hand but the City would need to insure that the savings are directed to the Davis consumer and not DWR’s profit margin.

  18. Anonymous

    At the end of the day, this is all about lowering the cost of operations for DWR. This is not a reason to reject it out-of-hand but the City would need to insure that the savings are directed to the Davis consumer and not DWR’s profit margin.

  19. Anonymous

    At the end of the day, this is all about lowering the cost of operations for DWR. This is not a reason to reject it out-of-hand but the City would need to insure that the savings are directed to the Davis consumer and not DWR’s profit margin.

  20. Anonymous

    At the end of the day, this is all about lowering the cost of operations for DWR. This is not a reason to reject it out-of-hand but the City would need to insure that the savings are directed to the Davis consumer and not DWR’s profit margin.

  21. Doug Paul Davis

    For me this is an issue about safety for bicyclists, as I suggested in the article, if people have alternative suggestions, I’m not wedded to this but I find this difficult to believe that a system that works in most other communities–putting green waste in containers, wouldn’t work here.

  22. Doug Paul Davis

    For me this is an issue about safety for bicyclists, as I suggested in the article, if people have alternative suggestions, I’m not wedded to this but I find this difficult to believe that a system that works in most other communities–putting green waste in containers, wouldn’t work here.

  23. Doug Paul Davis

    For me this is an issue about safety for bicyclists, as I suggested in the article, if people have alternative suggestions, I’m not wedded to this but I find this difficult to believe that a system that works in most other communities–putting green waste in containers, wouldn’t work here.

  24. Doug Paul Davis

    For me this is an issue about safety for bicyclists, as I suggested in the article, if people have alternative suggestions, I’m not wedded to this but I find this difficult to believe that a system that works in most other communities–putting green waste in containers, wouldn’t work here.

  25. 無名 - wu ming

    i duno, i ride my bike most of the time, and have only ever had problems on arlington (and even there, you can ignore the piles of leaves simply by riding on the dedicated bike path on the other side of the curb, at least on the south side of the street).

    perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out. picking up green waste more often could be another. encouraging composting – while not a total solution in and of itself – would certainly lessen the amount of green waste. lots of little solutions rather than one silver bullet.

    (i am amazed how many loads of grass clippings and fallen leaves have just disappeared into the compost in the past month; it got to where i was surreptitiously scooping up other people’s leaves to get the carbon level and speed of decomposition right)

    most communities don’t have problems with this because they don’t have bicycles or bike lanes to the degree that we do. the closest thing to a peer would be boulder or portland, or perhaps amsterdam. not sure how they work it out.

  26. 無名 - wu ming

    i duno, i ride my bike most of the time, and have only ever had problems on arlington (and even there, you can ignore the piles of leaves simply by riding on the dedicated bike path on the other side of the curb, at least on the south side of the street).

    perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out. picking up green waste more often could be another. encouraging composting – while not a total solution in and of itself – would certainly lessen the amount of green waste. lots of little solutions rather than one silver bullet.

    (i am amazed how many loads of grass clippings and fallen leaves have just disappeared into the compost in the past month; it got to where i was surreptitiously scooping up other people’s leaves to get the carbon level and speed of decomposition right)

    most communities don’t have problems with this because they don’t have bicycles or bike lanes to the degree that we do. the closest thing to a peer would be boulder or portland, or perhaps amsterdam. not sure how they work it out.

  27. 無名 - wu ming

    i duno, i ride my bike most of the time, and have only ever had problems on arlington (and even there, you can ignore the piles of leaves simply by riding on the dedicated bike path on the other side of the curb, at least on the south side of the street).

    perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out. picking up green waste more often could be another. encouraging composting – while not a total solution in and of itself – would certainly lessen the amount of green waste. lots of little solutions rather than one silver bullet.

    (i am amazed how many loads of grass clippings and fallen leaves have just disappeared into the compost in the past month; it got to where i was surreptitiously scooping up other people’s leaves to get the carbon level and speed of decomposition right)

    most communities don’t have problems with this because they don’t have bicycles or bike lanes to the degree that we do. the closest thing to a peer would be boulder or portland, or perhaps amsterdam. not sure how they work it out.

  28. 無名 - wu ming

    i duno, i ride my bike most of the time, and have only ever had problems on arlington (and even there, you can ignore the piles of leaves simply by riding on the dedicated bike path on the other side of the curb, at least on the south side of the street).

    perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out. picking up green waste more often could be another. encouraging composting – while not a total solution in and of itself – would certainly lessen the amount of green waste. lots of little solutions rather than one silver bullet.

    (i am amazed how many loads of grass clippings and fallen leaves have just disappeared into the compost in the past month; it got to where i was surreptitiously scooping up other people’s leaves to get the carbon level and speed of decomposition right)

    most communities don’t have problems with this because they don’t have bicycles or bike lanes to the degree that we do. the closest thing to a peer would be boulder or portland, or perhaps amsterdam. not sure how they work it out.

  29. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpected hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  30. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpected hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  31. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpected hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  32. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpected hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  33. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpectedly hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  34. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpectedly hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  35. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpectedly hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  36. Mike Adams

    I am advocating some type of solution or solutions because I personally find it a serious problem. Riding home from the train station by bicycle in the early evening can be very hazardous. One also never knows whether or not large branches lurk in the leaf piles, when they can be seen at all in the glare of oncoming headlights. As one who unexpectedly hits yard waste with some frequency (at least once a week), I would appreciate a remedy.

    Thanks.

  37. Anonymous

    This is stupid. I do not have room to store one more huge container that I would use infrequently. I grew up in Davis and have never had a problem on my bike. This is creating a problem where there is little or no problem.

  38. Anonymous

    This is stupid. I do not have room to store one more huge container that I would use infrequently. I grew up in Davis and have never had a problem on my bike. This is creating a problem where there is little or no problem.

  39. Anonymous

    This is stupid. I do not have room to store one more huge container that I would use infrequently. I grew up in Davis and have never had a problem on my bike. This is creating a problem where there is little or no problem.

  40. Anonymous

    This is stupid. I do not have room to store one more huge container that I would use infrequently. I grew up in Davis and have never had a problem on my bike. This is creating a problem where there is little or no problem.

  41. Rich Rifkin

    “perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out.”

    Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.

    “If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?”

    In the fall, with leaves snowing to the ground off of my 2 giant hackberries, my even larger fruitless mulberry, and a handful of other smaller trees mixed with the leaves that land in my yard from neighbor’s trees, that “large container” would have to be gargantuan.

    Further, I trim my own trees, every year. With the larger limbs, it would triple or even quadruple the amount of work I would have to do if I had to fit everything into a container. And, because I usually do all of the tree-trimming in one or two weekends, I would have to have about 5-10 containers to hold all of the trimmings.

    If this ordinance were put in place, I would be forced to pay the $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.”

    Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?

    “ridiculous… compost, compost compost!”

    I compost as much as I can. However, 100% of the foliage picked up by the DWR is composted and sold commercially.

  42. Rich Rifkin

    “perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out.”

    Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.

    “If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?”

    In the fall, with leaves snowing to the ground off of my 2 giant hackberries, my even larger fruitless mulberry, and a handful of other smaller trees mixed with the leaves that land in my yard from neighbor’s trees, that “large container” would have to be gargantuan.

    Further, I trim my own trees, every year. With the larger limbs, it would triple or even quadruple the amount of work I would have to do if I had to fit everything into a container. And, because I usually do all of the tree-trimming in one or two weekends, I would have to have about 5-10 containers to hold all of the trimmings.

    If this ordinance were put in place, I would be forced to pay the $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.”

    Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?

    “ridiculous… compost, compost compost!”

    I compost as much as I can. However, 100% of the foliage picked up by the DWR is composted and sold commercially.

  43. Rich Rifkin

    “perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out.”

    Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.

    “If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?”

    In the fall, with leaves snowing to the ground off of my 2 giant hackberries, my even larger fruitless mulberry, and a handful of other smaller trees mixed with the leaves that land in my yard from neighbor’s trees, that “large container” would have to be gargantuan.

    Further, I trim my own trees, every year. With the larger limbs, it would triple or even quadruple the amount of work I would have to do if I had to fit everything into a container. And, because I usually do all of the tree-trimming in one or two weekends, I would have to have about 5-10 containers to hold all of the trimmings.

    If this ordinance were put in place, I would be forced to pay the $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.”

    Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?

    “ridiculous… compost, compost compost!”

    I compost as much as I can. However, 100% of the foliage picked up by the DWR is composted and sold commercially.

  44. Rich Rifkin

    “perhaps banning green waste on a few streets, in the way that parking is banned, might be one way out.”

    Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.

    “If people can trim their trees; can’t they clip the trimmings to fit into a large container?”

    In the fall, with leaves snowing to the ground off of my 2 giant hackberries, my even larger fruitless mulberry, and a handful of other smaller trees mixed with the leaves that land in my yard from neighbor’s trees, that “large container” would have to be gargantuan.

    Further, I trim my own trees, every year. With the larger limbs, it would triple or even quadruple the amount of work I would have to do if I had to fit everything into a container. And, because I usually do all of the tree-trimming in one or two weekends, I would have to have about 5-10 containers to hold all of the trimmings.

    If this ordinance were put in place, I would be forced to pay the $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.”

    Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?

    “ridiculous… compost, compost compost!”

    I compost as much as I can. However, 100% of the foliage picked up by the DWR is composted and sold commercially.

  45. For Petes Sake

    Why is it that the city of Davis has to find the most expensive solution to every problem? First of all, do you know how much grass clippings stink inside a plastic garbage can inside a garage? Secondly, we had a very good system in place that cost nothing to implement. Everyone placed loose grass clippings, leaves, etc in nice big trash bags. Regulations required them and any branches, etc. to be placed far enough away from the curb to make sure sidewalks were kept clear. A big bag of clippings would take up no more space than a big fat container, and could be kept out of bike lanes just as easily as a big trash bin.

    If we are expected to have one more Godawful plastic container besides the two we already have, where the heck will our car fit in the garage? This is just plain stupid, and a collosal waste of money (pun intended)!

    And while I am on the subject, I for one am not a recycler. I have gotten so fed up with the city’s rules, I have privately revolted in my own quiet way. Why? I used to be diligent about recycling.

    I placed some cardboard boxes out. I was told in a notice hung on my door they were too big for pickup. So I cut them up, and placed them out again. I got another notice on my door saying they were still too big, had to be cut up smaller. So I did that too.

    By this time it had rained, and the boxes got wet. I got another notice saying they would not pick the cut up pieces, because now they were wet. So I had to go out, clean up the now soggy mess, place it in plastic bags, and dispose of it that way – which is how I should have disposed of it in the first place – inside a trash bag.

    I was also noticed and told I had to take the tops off of milk bottles, and take the paper off of bottles. That did it for me. Everything recyclable goes in a big plastic trash bag with all the rest of my garbage now. If the city wants to sort it at the other end, let them. I’ve had it.

    Now we are told that we must look at the number on a plastic container, to be sure it is appropriate for our recycling trash bins. Forget it. If I have to spend a half hour sorting garbage, and even then I would not be sure of following all the minute and ridiculously complicated rules, tough toogies. No recycling for me.

    The expense of it all is just not justified. We now have two new trash bins that take up half my garage so the car hardly fits. The guy who collects for pick up doesn’t even have to get out of the truck and dirty his fingers. (That actually is a good thing.) How much did this sytem cost us? I shudder to think. And think of the polution that was created to created the bins, run the truck with the fancy trash crane, etc.

    Recycling should be done at the landfill. Lots of communities do it this way, even hiring the homeless or those down on their luck to do the job at that end. Hey, these folks need the money, and are doing the community a service by “recycling”. And I’ll bet you it would be a lot cheaper solution than the lastest “bright idea” the inane City Council has come up with.

    Oh yes, and that is another thing. The City cracked down on the homeless who “stole” recyclables from trash bins left out overnight before pickup. How many rules and regulations have to be put in place to make certain people in power think they are now sufficiently important enough because they have enacted another silly regulation, after silly regulation, after silly regulation.

    I don’t care if I am not politically correct. What I am is fed up!

  46. For Petes Sake

    Why is it that the city of Davis has to find the most expensive solution to every problem? First of all, do you know how much grass clippings stink inside a plastic garbage can inside a garage? Secondly, we had a very good system in place that cost nothing to implement. Everyone placed loose grass clippings, leaves, etc in nice big trash bags. Regulations required them and any branches, etc. to be placed far enough away from the curb to make sure sidewalks were kept clear. A big bag of clippings would take up no more space than a big fat container, and could be kept out of bike lanes just as easily as a big trash bin.

    If we are expected to have one more Godawful plastic container besides the two we already have, where the heck will our car fit in the garage? This is just plain stupid, and a collosal waste of money (pun intended)!

    And while I am on the subject, I for one am not a recycler. I have gotten so fed up with the city’s rules, I have privately revolted in my own quiet way. Why? I used to be diligent about recycling.

    I placed some cardboard boxes out. I was told in a notice hung on my door they were too big for pickup. So I cut them up, and placed them out again. I got another notice on my door saying they were still too big, had to be cut up smaller. So I did that too.

    By this time it had rained, and the boxes got wet. I got another notice saying they would not pick the cut up pieces, because now they were wet. So I had to go out, clean up the now soggy mess, place it in plastic bags, and dispose of it that way – which is how I should have disposed of it in the first place – inside a trash bag.

    I was also noticed and told I had to take the tops off of milk bottles, and take the paper off of bottles. That did it for me. Everything recyclable goes in a big plastic trash bag with all the rest of my garbage now. If the city wants to sort it at the other end, let them. I’ve had it.

    Now we are told that we must look at the number on a plastic container, to be sure it is appropriate for our recycling trash bins. Forget it. If I have to spend a half hour sorting garbage, and even then I would not be sure of following all the minute and ridiculously complicated rules, tough toogies. No recycling for me.

    The expense of it all is just not justified. We now have two new trash bins that take up half my garage so the car hardly fits. The guy who collects for pick up doesn’t even have to get out of the truck and dirty his fingers. (That actually is a good thing.) How much did this sytem cost us? I shudder to think. And think of the polution that was created to created the bins, run the truck with the fancy trash crane, etc.

    Recycling should be done at the landfill. Lots of communities do it this way, even hiring the homeless or those down on their luck to do the job at that end. Hey, these folks need the money, and are doing the community a service by “recycling”. And I’ll bet you it would be a lot cheaper solution than the lastest “bright idea” the inane City Council has come up with.

    Oh yes, and that is another thing. The City cracked down on the homeless who “stole” recyclables from trash bins left out overnight before pickup. How many rules and regulations have to be put in place to make certain people in power think they are now sufficiently important enough because they have enacted another silly regulation, after silly regulation, after silly regulation.

    I don’t care if I am not politically correct. What I am is fed up!

  47. For Petes Sake

    Why is it that the city of Davis has to find the most expensive solution to every problem? First of all, do you know how much grass clippings stink inside a plastic garbage can inside a garage? Secondly, we had a very good system in place that cost nothing to implement. Everyone placed loose grass clippings, leaves, etc in nice big trash bags. Regulations required them and any branches, etc. to be placed far enough away from the curb to make sure sidewalks were kept clear. A big bag of clippings would take up no more space than a big fat container, and could be kept out of bike lanes just as easily as a big trash bin.

    If we are expected to have one more Godawful plastic container besides the two we already have, where the heck will our car fit in the garage? This is just plain stupid, and a collosal waste of money (pun intended)!

    And while I am on the subject, I for one am not a recycler. I have gotten so fed up with the city’s rules, I have privately revolted in my own quiet way. Why? I used to be diligent about recycling.

    I placed some cardboard boxes out. I was told in a notice hung on my door they were too big for pickup. So I cut them up, and placed them out again. I got another notice on my door saying they were still too big, had to be cut up smaller. So I did that too.

    By this time it had rained, and the boxes got wet. I got another notice saying they would not pick the cut up pieces, because now they were wet. So I had to go out, clean up the now soggy mess, place it in plastic bags, and dispose of it that way – which is how I should have disposed of it in the first place – inside a trash bag.

    I was also noticed and told I had to take the tops off of milk bottles, and take the paper off of bottles. That did it for me. Everything recyclable goes in a big plastic trash bag with all the rest of my garbage now. If the city wants to sort it at the other end, let them. I’ve had it.

    Now we are told that we must look at the number on a plastic container, to be sure it is appropriate for our recycling trash bins. Forget it. If I have to spend a half hour sorting garbage, and even then I would not be sure of following all the minute and ridiculously complicated rules, tough toogies. No recycling for me.

    The expense of it all is just not justified. We now have two new trash bins that take up half my garage so the car hardly fits. The guy who collects for pick up doesn’t even have to get out of the truck and dirty his fingers. (That actually is a good thing.) How much did this sytem cost us? I shudder to think. And think of the polution that was created to created the bins, run the truck with the fancy trash crane, etc.

    Recycling should be done at the landfill. Lots of communities do it this way, even hiring the homeless or those down on their luck to do the job at that end. Hey, these folks need the money, and are doing the community a service by “recycling”. And I’ll bet you it would be a lot cheaper solution than the lastest “bright idea” the inane City Council has come up with.

    Oh yes, and that is another thing. The City cracked down on the homeless who “stole” recyclables from trash bins left out overnight before pickup. How many rules and regulations have to be put in place to make certain people in power think they are now sufficiently important enough because they have enacted another silly regulation, after silly regulation, after silly regulation.

    I don’t care if I am not politically correct. What I am is fed up!

  48. For Petes Sake

    Why is it that the city of Davis has to find the most expensive solution to every problem? First of all, do you know how much grass clippings stink inside a plastic garbage can inside a garage? Secondly, we had a very good system in place that cost nothing to implement. Everyone placed loose grass clippings, leaves, etc in nice big trash bags. Regulations required them and any branches, etc. to be placed far enough away from the curb to make sure sidewalks were kept clear. A big bag of clippings would take up no more space than a big fat container, and could be kept out of bike lanes just as easily as a big trash bin.

    If we are expected to have one more Godawful plastic container besides the two we already have, where the heck will our car fit in the garage? This is just plain stupid, and a collosal waste of money (pun intended)!

    And while I am on the subject, I for one am not a recycler. I have gotten so fed up with the city’s rules, I have privately revolted in my own quiet way. Why? I used to be diligent about recycling.

    I placed some cardboard boxes out. I was told in a notice hung on my door they were too big for pickup. So I cut them up, and placed them out again. I got another notice on my door saying they were still too big, had to be cut up smaller. So I did that too.

    By this time it had rained, and the boxes got wet. I got another notice saying they would not pick the cut up pieces, because now they were wet. So I had to go out, clean up the now soggy mess, place it in plastic bags, and dispose of it that way – which is how I should have disposed of it in the first place – inside a trash bag.

    I was also noticed and told I had to take the tops off of milk bottles, and take the paper off of bottles. That did it for me. Everything recyclable goes in a big plastic trash bag with all the rest of my garbage now. If the city wants to sort it at the other end, let them. I’ve had it.

    Now we are told that we must look at the number on a plastic container, to be sure it is appropriate for our recycling trash bins. Forget it. If I have to spend a half hour sorting garbage, and even then I would not be sure of following all the minute and ridiculously complicated rules, tough toogies. No recycling for me.

    The expense of it all is just not justified. We now have two new trash bins that take up half my garage so the car hardly fits. The guy who collects for pick up doesn’t even have to get out of the truck and dirty his fingers. (That actually is a good thing.) How much did this sytem cost us? I shudder to think. And think of the polution that was created to created the bins, run the truck with the fancy trash crane, etc.

    Recycling should be done at the landfill. Lots of communities do it this way, even hiring the homeless or those down on their luck to do the job at that end. Hey, these folks need the money, and are doing the community a service by “recycling”. And I’ll bet you it would be a lot cheaper solution than the lastest “bright idea” the inane City Council has come up with.

    Oh yes, and that is another thing. The City cracked down on the homeless who “stole” recyclables from trash bins left out overnight before pickup. How many rules and regulations have to be put in place to make certain people in power think they are now sufficiently important enough because they have enacted another silly regulation, after silly regulation, after silly regulation.

    I don’t care if I am not politically correct. What I am is fed up!

  49. Doug Paul Davis

    “Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.”

    Rich: you are completely correct, the pilot is for 12 streets, I think there are a couple of others that need to be included, but under this proposal we are not talking about everyone.

  50. Doug Paul Davis

    “Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.”

    Rich: you are completely correct, the pilot is for 12 streets, I think there are a couple of others that need to be included, but under this proposal we are not talking about everyone.

  51. Doug Paul Davis

    “Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.”

    Rich: you are completely correct, the pilot is for 12 streets, I think there are a couple of others that need to be included, but under this proposal we are not talking about everyone.

  52. Doug Paul Davis

    “Wu Ming hit on the obvious solution. We have a small number of streets in Davis which have striped bike lanes and significant car traffic plus parked cars. On those streets, it would make sense to require the green waste to be containerized. But on the other 99% of streets, the idea makes far less sense. It’s the $10 solution to the 10 cent problem.”

    Rich: you are completely correct, the pilot is for 12 streets, I think there are a couple of others that need to be included, but under this proposal we are not talking about everyone.

  53. Deb

    Check out this website for the Sacramento Area Bike Coalition. They too have expressed the same concerns you express David.

    http://www.sacbike.org/greenwaste/

    Below, are some of the concerns that they list. BTW – Good article. Thanks.

    Deb

    Can The Trash! Coalition Statement:

    We believe in order to prevent local flooding, protect our streams and rivers, cut government and residents’ costs, improve neighborhood appearance, discourage illegal dumping, reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians, decrease air pollution and decrease the size of the waste stream, cities and counties in the Sacramento region should not permit the year-round dumping of green waste on the streets. The “loose collection” of green waste should be replaced by containerized collection.

    Can the Trash! Coalition Fact Sheet:

    Green Waste Dumping—a practice whose time has passed.

    The cities of Davis, Sacramento and Woodland allow residents to dump green waste in the streets for “loose pick up.” Few other cities follow this practice. In the city of Sacramento, a public vote, not just a City Council decision, is the only way to end the current practice.

    The city of Sacramento now picks up green waste every week (a maximum of two cubic yards) using a two-person crew, the “Claw” and a truck.

    The city has started a voluntary green waste containerization program using 96-gallon, wheeled containers. Under the voluntary program, weekly container pick up is supplemented by loose pick every other week in the November and December leaf season and by last week of the month pick up in February, March, April and August.

    Why change to containers?

    *Prevent local flooding. Green waste can block storm drains. The US EPA said on-street dumping of green waste contributed to overflows from the Sacramento Combined Sewer System on September 19, 2004. The overflows contain sewage and massive amounts of coliform bacteria.

    *Cut costs. The city of Sacramento says billing rates are 22% less expensive for pick up using the containers. (We calculate costs are 31% higher using the “Claw.”) This doesn’t include the substantial costs from pavement damage, local flooding and drain clearing, dumping of other trash and its removal, street sweeping, screen cleaning and pump damage at storm water pump stations.

    *Protect streams and rivers. Cities must meet state storm water quality standards. Woodland is facing $10,000/day fines from the state of California for the amount of Total Organic Carbons in its runoff.

    *Improve air quality. Using two vehicles for green waste pick up increases emissions. The “Claw” is diesel powered. Diesels are an especially harmful source of pollutants. Dust and particulates in waste piles are stirred by auto traffic potentially aggravating asthma and other lung diseases.

    * Reduce greenhouse gases. Using only one vehicle reduces carbon dioxide emissions and helps in the fight against global warming. If green waste is not mixed with garbage, the shipping distance is significantly reduced (a few miles instead of 141 miles one way) further cutting carbon dioxide emissions.

    * Help prevent illegal dumping. Waste piles attract additional, illegal dumping including hazardous materials and dog wastes. Sometimes green waste piles are used to disguise other materials being dumped.

    *Improve neighborhood appearance. Green waste piles are unsightly. Piles are often scattered during pick up, by the wind, or by vehicles, requiring additional street sweeping.

    *Reduce waste stream. Having a green waste container discourages mixing green waste with garbage. For some, it may provide an incentive to compost or switch to more ecologically friendly landscaping.

    *Save the pavement. The ‘Claw” scratches and gouges street pavement, curbs and sidewalks and scrapes off pavement markings.

    *Reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians. The piles are a significant safety hazard to cyclists (see below) and create a liability for the city and residents.

    * Stop interference with parking. Green waste piles interfere with parking and are a traffic nuisance.

    *Ease enforcement hassles. It is difficult to enforce volume and placement restrictions on the green waste piles.

    * Reduce mosquito population. According to the Sacramento-Yolo Mosquito and Vector Control District, organic material in the storm water system, which is designed to have standing water, increases mosquito reproduction vs. cleaner water.

    Some residents fear loss of convenience and worry about storing another waste container. But containers themselves are convenient. Green waste containers have large capacity, are neat, don’t interfere as much with parking and are easy to load and wheel from backyard to curb. At any rate, actual or perceived convenience should not outweigh environmental protection, flood risk, neighborhood appearance, costs and safety.

  54. Deb

    Check out this website for the Sacramento Area Bike Coalition. They too have expressed the same concerns you express David.

    http://www.sacbike.org/greenwaste/

    Below, are some of the concerns that they list. BTW – Good article. Thanks.

    Deb

    Can The Trash! Coalition Statement:

    We believe in order to prevent local flooding, protect our streams and rivers, cut government and residents’ costs, improve neighborhood appearance, discourage illegal dumping, reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians, decrease air pollution and decrease the size of the waste stream, cities and counties in the Sacramento region should not permit the year-round dumping of green waste on the streets. The “loose collection” of green waste should be replaced by containerized collection.

    Can the Trash! Coalition Fact Sheet:

    Green Waste Dumping—a practice whose time has passed.

    The cities of Davis, Sacramento and Woodland allow residents to dump green waste in the streets for “loose pick up.” Few other cities follow this practice. In the city of Sacramento, a public vote, not just a City Council decision, is the only way to end the current practice.

    The city of Sacramento now picks up green waste every week (a maximum of two cubic yards) using a two-person crew, the “Claw” and a truck.

    The city has started a voluntary green waste containerization program using 96-gallon, wheeled containers. Under the voluntary program, weekly container pick up is supplemented by loose pick every other week in the November and December leaf season and by last week of the month pick up in February, March, April and August.

    Why change to containers?

    *Prevent local flooding. Green waste can block storm drains. The US EPA said on-street dumping of green waste contributed to overflows from the Sacramento Combined Sewer System on September 19, 2004. The overflows contain sewage and massive amounts of coliform bacteria.

    *Cut costs. The city of Sacramento says billing rates are 22% less expensive for pick up using the containers. (We calculate costs are 31% higher using the “Claw.”) This doesn’t include the substantial costs from pavement damage, local flooding and drain clearing, dumping of other trash and its removal, street sweeping, screen cleaning and pump damage at storm water pump stations.

    *Protect streams and rivers. Cities must meet state storm water quality standards. Woodland is facing $10,000/day fines from the state of California for the amount of Total Organic Carbons in its runoff.

    *Improve air quality. Using two vehicles for green waste pick up increases emissions. The “Claw” is diesel powered. Diesels are an especially harmful source of pollutants. Dust and particulates in waste piles are stirred by auto traffic potentially aggravating asthma and other lung diseases.

    * Reduce greenhouse gases. Using only one vehicle reduces carbon dioxide emissions and helps in the fight against global warming. If green waste is not mixed with garbage, the shipping distance is significantly reduced (a few miles instead of 141 miles one way) further cutting carbon dioxide emissions.

    * Help prevent illegal dumping. Waste piles attract additional, illegal dumping including hazardous materials and dog wastes. Sometimes green waste piles are used to disguise other materials being dumped.

    *Improve neighborhood appearance. Green waste piles are unsightly. Piles are often scattered during pick up, by the wind, or by vehicles, requiring additional street sweeping.

    *Reduce waste stream. Having a green waste container discourages mixing green waste with garbage. For some, it may provide an incentive to compost or switch to more ecologically friendly landscaping.

    *Save the pavement. The ‘Claw” scratches and gouges street pavement, curbs and sidewalks and scrapes off pavement markings.

    *Reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians. The piles are a significant safety hazard to cyclists (see below) and create a liability for the city and residents.

    * Stop interference with parking. Green waste piles interfere with parking and are a traffic nuisance.

    *Ease enforcement hassles. It is difficult to enforce volume and placement restrictions on the green waste piles.

    * Reduce mosquito population. According to the Sacramento-Yolo Mosquito and Vector Control District, organic material in the storm water system, which is designed to have standing water, increases mosquito reproduction vs. cleaner water.

    Some residents fear loss of convenience and worry about storing another waste container. But containers themselves are convenient. Green waste containers have large capacity, are neat, don’t interfere as much with parking and are easy to load and wheel from backyard to curb. At any rate, actual or perceived convenience should not outweigh environmental protection, flood risk, neighborhood appearance, costs and safety.

  55. Deb

    Check out this website for the Sacramento Area Bike Coalition. They too have expressed the same concerns you express David.

    http://www.sacbike.org/greenwaste/

    Below, are some of the concerns that they list. BTW – Good article. Thanks.

    Deb

    Can The Trash! Coalition Statement:

    We believe in order to prevent local flooding, protect our streams and rivers, cut government and residents’ costs, improve neighborhood appearance, discourage illegal dumping, reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians, decrease air pollution and decrease the size of the waste stream, cities and counties in the Sacramento region should not permit the year-round dumping of green waste on the streets. The “loose collection” of green waste should be replaced by containerized collection.

    Can the Trash! Coalition Fact Sheet:

    Green Waste Dumping—a practice whose time has passed.

    The cities of Davis, Sacramento and Woodland allow residents to dump green waste in the streets for “loose pick up.” Few other cities follow this practice. In the city of Sacramento, a public vote, not just a City Council decision, is the only way to end the current practice.

    The city of Sacramento now picks up green waste every week (a maximum of two cubic yards) using a two-person crew, the “Claw” and a truck.

    The city has started a voluntary green waste containerization program using 96-gallon, wheeled containers. Under the voluntary program, weekly container pick up is supplemented by loose pick every other week in the November and December leaf season and by last week of the month pick up in February, March, April and August.

    Why change to containers?

    *Prevent local flooding. Green waste can block storm drains. The US EPA said on-street dumping of green waste contributed to overflows from the Sacramento Combined Sewer System on September 19, 2004. The overflows contain sewage and massive amounts of coliform bacteria.

    *Cut costs. The city of Sacramento says billing rates are 22% less expensive for pick up using the containers. (We calculate costs are 31% higher using the “Claw.”) This doesn’t include the substantial costs from pavement damage, local flooding and drain clearing, dumping of other trash and its removal, street sweeping, screen cleaning and pump damage at storm water pump stations.

    *Protect streams and rivers. Cities must meet state storm water quality standards. Woodland is facing $10,000/day fines from the state of California for the amount of Total Organic Carbons in its runoff.

    *Improve air quality. Using two vehicles for green waste pick up increases emissions. The “Claw” is diesel powered. Diesels are an especially harmful source of pollutants. Dust and particulates in waste piles are stirred by auto traffic potentially aggravating asthma and other lung diseases.

    * Reduce greenhouse gases. Using only one vehicle reduces carbon dioxide emissions and helps in the fight against global warming. If green waste is not mixed with garbage, the shipping distance is significantly reduced (a few miles instead of 141 miles one way) further cutting carbon dioxide emissions.

    * Help prevent illegal dumping. Waste piles attract additional, illegal dumping including hazardous materials and dog wastes. Sometimes green waste piles are used to disguise other materials being dumped.

    *Improve neighborhood appearance. Green waste piles are unsightly. Piles are often scattered during pick up, by the wind, or by vehicles, requiring additional street sweeping.

    *Reduce waste stream. Having a green waste container discourages mixing green waste with garbage. For some, it may provide an incentive to compost or switch to more ecologically friendly landscaping.

    *Save the pavement. The ‘Claw” scratches and gouges street pavement, curbs and sidewalks and scrapes off pavement markings.

    *Reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians. The piles are a significant safety hazard to cyclists (see below) and create a liability for the city and residents.

    * Stop interference with parking. Green waste piles interfere with parking and are a traffic nuisance.

    *Ease enforcement hassles. It is difficult to enforce volume and placement restrictions on the green waste piles.

    * Reduce mosquito population. According to the Sacramento-Yolo Mosquito and Vector Control District, organic material in the storm water system, which is designed to have standing water, increases mosquito reproduction vs. cleaner water.

    Some residents fear loss of convenience and worry about storing another waste container. But containers themselves are convenient. Green waste containers have large capacity, are neat, don’t interfere as much with parking and are easy to load and wheel from backyard to curb. At any rate, actual or perceived convenience should not outweigh environmental protection, flood risk, neighborhood appearance, costs and safety.

  56. Deb

    Check out this website for the Sacramento Area Bike Coalition. They too have expressed the same concerns you express David.

    http://www.sacbike.org/greenwaste/

    Below, are some of the concerns that they list. BTW – Good article. Thanks.

    Deb

    Can The Trash! Coalition Statement:

    We believe in order to prevent local flooding, protect our streams and rivers, cut government and residents’ costs, improve neighborhood appearance, discourage illegal dumping, reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians, decrease air pollution and decrease the size of the waste stream, cities and counties in the Sacramento region should not permit the year-round dumping of green waste on the streets. The “loose collection” of green waste should be replaced by containerized collection.

    Can the Trash! Coalition Fact Sheet:

    Green Waste Dumping—a practice whose time has passed.

    The cities of Davis, Sacramento and Woodland allow residents to dump green waste in the streets for “loose pick up.” Few other cities follow this practice. In the city of Sacramento, a public vote, not just a City Council decision, is the only way to end the current practice.

    The city of Sacramento now picks up green waste every week (a maximum of two cubic yards) using a two-person crew, the “Claw” and a truck.

    The city has started a voluntary green waste containerization program using 96-gallon, wheeled containers. Under the voluntary program, weekly container pick up is supplemented by loose pick every other week in the November and December leaf season and by last week of the month pick up in February, March, April and August.

    Why change to containers?

    *Prevent local flooding. Green waste can block storm drains. The US EPA said on-street dumping of green waste contributed to overflows from the Sacramento Combined Sewer System on September 19, 2004. The overflows contain sewage and massive amounts of coliform bacteria.

    *Cut costs. The city of Sacramento says billing rates are 22% less expensive for pick up using the containers. (We calculate costs are 31% higher using the “Claw.”) This doesn’t include the substantial costs from pavement damage, local flooding and drain clearing, dumping of other trash and its removal, street sweeping, screen cleaning and pump damage at storm water pump stations.

    *Protect streams and rivers. Cities must meet state storm water quality standards. Woodland is facing $10,000/day fines from the state of California for the amount of Total Organic Carbons in its runoff.

    *Improve air quality. Using two vehicles for green waste pick up increases emissions. The “Claw” is diesel powered. Diesels are an especially harmful source of pollutants. Dust and particulates in waste piles are stirred by auto traffic potentially aggravating asthma and other lung diseases.

    * Reduce greenhouse gases. Using only one vehicle reduces carbon dioxide emissions and helps in the fight against global warming. If green waste is not mixed with garbage, the shipping distance is significantly reduced (a few miles instead of 141 miles one way) further cutting carbon dioxide emissions.

    * Help prevent illegal dumping. Waste piles attract additional, illegal dumping including hazardous materials and dog wastes. Sometimes green waste piles are used to disguise other materials being dumped.

    *Improve neighborhood appearance. Green waste piles are unsightly. Piles are often scattered during pick up, by the wind, or by vehicles, requiring additional street sweeping.

    *Reduce waste stream. Having a green waste container discourages mixing green waste with garbage. For some, it may provide an incentive to compost or switch to more ecologically friendly landscaping.

    *Save the pavement. The ‘Claw” scratches and gouges street pavement, curbs and sidewalks and scrapes off pavement markings.

    *Reduce hazards to cyclists and pedestrians. The piles are a significant safety hazard to cyclists (see below) and create a liability for the city and residents.

    * Stop interference with parking. Green waste piles interfere with parking and are a traffic nuisance.

    *Ease enforcement hassles. It is difficult to enforce volume and placement restrictions on the green waste piles.

    * Reduce mosquito population. According to the Sacramento-Yolo Mosquito and Vector Control District, organic material in the storm water system, which is designed to have standing water, increases mosquito reproduction vs. cleaner water.

    Some residents fear loss of convenience and worry about storing another waste container. But containers themselves are convenient. Green waste containers have large capacity, are neat, don’t interfere as much with parking and are easy to load and wheel from backyard to curb. At any rate, actual or perceived convenience should not outweigh environmental protection, flood risk, neighborhood appearance, costs and safety.

  57. Anonymous

    I have never heard of anyone being noticed that their cardboard is too big to pick up, or that they haven’t taken the tops off the milk jugs, etc. I think this story has been embellished.

  58. Anonymous

    I have never heard of anyone being noticed that their cardboard is too big to pick up, or that they haven’t taken the tops off the milk jugs, etc. I think this story has been embellished.

  59. Anonymous

    I have never heard of anyone being noticed that their cardboard is too big to pick up, or that they haven’t taken the tops off the milk jugs, etc. I think this story has been embellished.

  60. Anonymous

    I have never heard of anyone being noticed that their cardboard is too big to pick up, or that they haven’t taken the tops off the milk jugs, etc. I think this story has been embellished.

  61. Deb

    My apologies. I thought that SABA was based out of Sacramento. I did not realize it was out of Davis.

    I want to complement SABA on the great website and how SABA does a great job of listing the reasons that containerizing is so important.

    I only cycle for leisure around town, but have found clippings to be a huge inconvenience and safety hazard.

    I encourage people to go to the website.

    David, you may want to list some of the pictures of containers on your Vanguard site so people can see what you are talking about. It is not a big gargantuan container like people describe. It is reasonable.

  62. Darnell Watson

    I am sympathetic to the smaller landscape people trying to make a living, but I have had it up to my eyeballs with some of them dumping other peoples green waste in front of or near my house. There are several spots nearby that are favorite places for these people to dump their loads; many are at red striped curbs. I have talked to the City of Davis and they say that is illegal. Wouldn’t you know it that they leave it there the day after the “claw” comes through and it sits there for a week. I believe I know who they are now and I will report them the next time it happens.

    I don’t live in the pilot area but I can see commercial landscapers dumping their waste where containerization is not required. I don’t mean at the landfill either! I hope the city has a plan for this.

  63. Deb

    My apologies. I thought that SABA was based out of Sacramento. I did not realize it was out of Davis.

    I want to complement SABA on the great website and how SABA does a great job of listing the reasons that containerizing is so important.

    I only cycle for leisure around town, but have found clippings to be a huge inconvenience and safety hazard.

    I encourage people to go to the website.

    David, you may want to list some of the pictures of containers on your Vanguard site so people can see what you are talking about. It is not a big gargantuan container like people describe. It is reasonable.

  64. Darnell Watson

    I am sympathetic to the smaller landscape people trying to make a living, but I have had it up to my eyeballs with some of them dumping other peoples green waste in front of or near my house. There are several spots nearby that are favorite places for these people to dump their loads; many are at red striped curbs. I have talked to the City of Davis and they say that is illegal. Wouldn’t you know it that they leave it there the day after the “claw” comes through and it sits there for a week. I believe I know who they are now and I will report them the next time it happens.

    I don’t live in the pilot area but I can see commercial landscapers dumping their waste where containerization is not required. I don’t mean at the landfill either! I hope the city has a plan for this.

  65. Deb

    My apologies. I thought that SABA was based out of Sacramento. I did not realize it was out of Davis.

    I want to complement SABA on the great website and how SABA does a great job of listing the reasons that containerizing is so important.

    I only cycle for leisure around town, but have found clippings to be a huge inconvenience and safety hazard.

    I encourage people to go to the website.

    David, you may want to list some of the pictures of containers on your Vanguard site so people can see what you are talking about. It is not a big gargantuan container like people describe. It is reasonable.

  66. Darnell Watson

    I am sympathetic to the smaller landscape people trying to make a living, but I have had it up to my eyeballs with some of them dumping other peoples green waste in front of or near my house. There are several spots nearby that are favorite places for these people to dump their loads; many are at red striped curbs. I have talked to the City of Davis and they say that is illegal. Wouldn’t you know it that they leave it there the day after the “claw” comes through and it sits there for a week. I believe I know who they are now and I will report them the next time it happens.

    I don’t live in the pilot area but I can see commercial landscapers dumping their waste where containerization is not required. I don’t mean at the landfill either! I hope the city has a plan for this.

  67. Deb

    My apologies. I thought that SABA was based out of Sacramento. I did not realize it was out of Davis.

    I want to complement SABA on the great website and how SABA does a great job of listing the reasons that containerizing is so important.

    I only cycle for leisure around town, but have found clippings to be a huge inconvenience and safety hazard.

    I encourage people to go to the website.

    David, you may want to list some of the pictures of containers on your Vanguard site so people can see what you are talking about. It is not a big gargantuan container like people describe. It is reasonable.

  68. Darnell Watson

    I am sympathetic to the smaller landscape people trying to make a living, but I have had it up to my eyeballs with some of them dumping other peoples green waste in front of or near my house. There are several spots nearby that are favorite places for these people to dump their loads; many are at red striped curbs. I have talked to the City of Davis and they say that is illegal. Wouldn’t you know it that they leave it there the day after the “claw” comes through and it sits there for a week. I believe I know who they are now and I will report them the next time it happens.

    I don’t live in the pilot area but I can see commercial landscapers dumping their waste where containerization is not required. I don’t mean at the landfill either! I hope the city has a plan for this.

  69. Erik

    Sorry, messed up the first post.

    ” “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.” “

    ” Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?”

    Organic Waste is food for bacteria. Abnormally high levels of organic waste in water lead to abnormally high levels of bacteria in water.Abnormally high levels of bacteria in water is bad. So, Abnormally high levels of organic waste in the water is bad.

  70. Erik

    Sorry, messed up the first post.

    ” “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.” “

    ” Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?”

    Organic Waste is food for bacteria. Abnormally high levels of organic waste in water lead to abnormally high levels of bacteria in water.Abnormally high levels of bacteria in water is bad. So, Abnormally high levels of organic waste in the water is bad.

  71. Erik

    Sorry, messed up the first post.

    ” “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.” “

    ” Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?”

    Organic Waste is food for bacteria. Abnormally high levels of organic waste in water lead to abnormally high levels of bacteria in water.Abnormally high levels of bacteria in water is bad. So, Abnormally high levels of organic waste in the water is bad.

  72. Erik

    Sorry, messed up the first post.

    ” “The Regional Water Quality Control Board held up the City’s stormwater permit because of the concerns about organic waste getting into stormwater runoff.” “

    ” Why would “organic waste” negatively impact water quality?”

    Organic Waste is food for bacteria. Abnormally high levels of organic waste in water lead to abnormally high levels of bacteria in water.Abnormally high levels of bacteria in water is bad. So, Abnormally high levels of organic waste in the water is bad.

  73. Anonymous

    Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?

  74. Anonymous

    Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?

  75. Anonymous

    Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?

  76. Anonymous

    Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?

  77. View from the Darkside

    Money Does not grow on trees here (pardon the pun)

    This kind of thing might be allright if the city was loaded with cash.

    Second, it concerns me that smaller issues like this and the tank house become front and center while the four hundred pound elephant in the room is ignored.

    what is the four hundred pound elephant?

    2 of them:

    1) the water sewer fees are going to quadruple, thus creating a train wreck for lower income residents. I feel like this is going to make Davis a Ghost town.

    2) Measure R; someone already pointed this out. The school board is going to have to pay off the costs of this new Holmes Jr. High fiasco, so we already know who is going to have to pay for the fiscal mistakes of West, Salle, Provenza and others don’t we?

  78. View from the Darkside

    Money Does not grow on trees here (pardon the pun)

    This kind of thing might be allright if the city was loaded with cash.

    Second, it concerns me that smaller issues like this and the tank house become front and center while the four hundred pound elephant in the room is ignored.

    what is the four hundred pound elephant?

    2 of them:

    1) the water sewer fees are going to quadruple, thus creating a train wreck for lower income residents. I feel like this is going to make Davis a Ghost town.

    2) Measure R; someone already pointed this out. The school board is going to have to pay off the costs of this new Holmes Jr. High fiasco, so we already know who is going to have to pay for the fiscal mistakes of West, Salle, Provenza and others don’t we?

  79. View from the Darkside

    Money Does not grow on trees here (pardon the pun)

    This kind of thing might be allright if the city was loaded with cash.

    Second, it concerns me that smaller issues like this and the tank house become front and center while the four hundred pound elephant in the room is ignored.

    what is the four hundred pound elephant?

    2 of them:

    1) the water sewer fees are going to quadruple, thus creating a train wreck for lower income residents. I feel like this is going to make Davis a Ghost town.

    2) Measure R; someone already pointed this out. The school board is going to have to pay off the costs of this new Holmes Jr. High fiasco, so we already know who is going to have to pay for the fiscal mistakes of West, Salle, Provenza and others don’t we?

  80. View from the Darkside

    Money Does not grow on trees here (pardon the pun)

    This kind of thing might be allright if the city was loaded with cash.

    Second, it concerns me that smaller issues like this and the tank house become front and center while the four hundred pound elephant in the room is ignored.

    what is the four hundred pound elephant?

    2 of them:

    1) the water sewer fees are going to quadruple, thus creating a train wreck for lower income residents. I feel like this is going to make Davis a Ghost town.

    2) Measure R; someone already pointed this out. The school board is going to have to pay off the costs of this new Holmes Jr. High fiasco, so we already know who is going to have to pay for the fiscal mistakes of West, Salle, Provenza and others don’t we?

  81. Anonymous

    This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.

    A few streets will have to containerize their waste, so people will dump their waste on adjoining streets…. you can guess how this will go.

    I seem to remember an experiment with having to bag one’s green waste years ago. I remember a letter to the editor from a citizen who, during the Fall, having to bag something like 48 bags of leaves and branches. He was requesting that the City come and cut down the city trees in his yard because the clean up was too burdensome.

    This, so people on bikes don’t have to watch where they are riding and steer around the piles.

  82. Anonymous

    This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.

    A few streets will have to containerize their waste, so people will dump their waste on adjoining streets…. you can guess how this will go.

    I seem to remember an experiment with having to bag one’s green waste years ago. I remember a letter to the editor from a citizen who, during the Fall, having to bag something like 48 bags of leaves and branches. He was requesting that the City come and cut down the city trees in his yard because the clean up was too burdensome.

    This, so people on bikes don’t have to watch where they are riding and steer around the piles.

  83. Anonymous

    This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.

    A few streets will have to containerize their waste, so people will dump their waste on adjoining streets…. you can guess how this will go.

    I seem to remember an experiment with having to bag one’s green waste years ago. I remember a letter to the editor from a citizen who, during the Fall, having to bag something like 48 bags of leaves and branches. He was requesting that the City come and cut down the city trees in his yard because the clean up was too burdensome.

    This, so people on bikes don’t have to watch where they are riding and steer around the piles.

  84. Anonymous

    This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.

    A few streets will have to containerize their waste, so people will dump their waste on adjoining streets…. you can guess how this will go.

    I seem to remember an experiment with having to bag one’s green waste years ago. I remember a letter to the editor from a citizen who, during the Fall, having to bag something like 48 bags of leaves and branches. He was requesting that the City come and cut down the city trees in his yard because the clean up was too burdensome.

    This, so people on bikes don’t have to watch where they are riding and steer around the piles.

  85. Doug Paul Davis

    The first thing is I’m failing to understand how this will cost us more money. Most communities that I have seen have containerized green waste removal.

    Second in response to the most recent post, unlike parking, waste dumping is not mobile. You are going to tell me that it is easier to dump waste on another street than put it in a receptacle? I’m not going to buy that as a widespread problem.

    The other point is that if you dump on side streets it does not necessarily lead to the same problems there–because there are no stripped bike lanes on non-major thoroughfares and they don’t have the type of traffic that makes waste avoidance problematic.

  86. Doug Paul Davis

    The first thing is I’m failing to understand how this will cost us more money. Most communities that I have seen have containerized green waste removal.

    Second in response to the most recent post, unlike parking, waste dumping is not mobile. You are going to tell me that it is easier to dump waste on another street than put it in a receptacle? I’m not going to buy that as a widespread problem.

    The other point is that if you dump on side streets it does not necessarily lead to the same problems there–because there are no stripped bike lanes on non-major thoroughfares and they don’t have the type of traffic that makes waste avoidance problematic.

  87. Doug Paul Davis

    The first thing is I’m failing to understand how this will cost us more money. Most communities that I have seen have containerized green waste removal.

    Second in response to the most recent post, unlike parking, waste dumping is not mobile. You are going to tell me that it is easier to dump waste on another street than put it in a receptacle? I’m not going to buy that as a widespread problem.

    The other point is that if you dump on side streets it does not necessarily lead to the same problems there–because there are no stripped bike lanes on non-major thoroughfares and they don’t have the type of traffic that makes waste avoidance problematic.

  88. Doug Paul Davis

    The first thing is I’m failing to understand how this will cost us more money. Most communities that I have seen have containerized green waste removal.

    Second in response to the most recent post, unlike parking, waste dumping is not mobile. You are going to tell me that it is easier to dump waste on another street than put it in a receptacle? I’m not going to buy that as a widespread problem.

    The other point is that if you dump on side streets it does not necessarily lead to the same problems there–because there are no stripped bike lanes on non-major thoroughfares and they don’t have the type of traffic that makes waste avoidance problematic.

  89. Darnell Watson

    Anonymous 11:04AM said: “Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?”

    I don’t think you understand my point. I am wondering if the commercial people in the pilot area not having a place to dump their waste will force those that are inclined to do so, dump it elsewhere outside of the pilot area.

    I am not asking anyone to change their ways if what they are doing is legal. If you read my entire post you would have read that I was going to report the (believed)offender’s. Did I say this was going to handle my problem? I don’t think I did or implied it.

  90. Darnell Watson

    Anonymous 11:04AM said: “Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?”

    I don’t think you understand my point. I am wondering if the commercial people in the pilot area not having a place to dump their waste will force those that are inclined to do so, dump it elsewhere outside of the pilot area.

    I am not asking anyone to change their ways if what they are doing is legal. If you read my entire post you would have read that I was going to report the (believed)offender’s. Did I say this was going to handle my problem? I don’t think I did or implied it.

  91. Darnell Watson

    Anonymous 11:04AM said: “Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?”

    I don’t think you understand my point. I am wondering if the commercial people in the pilot area not having a place to dump their waste will force those that are inclined to do so, dump it elsewhere outside of the pilot area.

    I am not asking anyone to change their ways if what they are doing is legal. If you read my entire post you would have read that I was going to report the (believed)offender’s. Did I say this was going to handle my problem? I don’t think I did or implied it.

  92. Darnell Watson

    Anonymous 11:04AM said: “Darnell –
    Requiring containers will not keep these people from continuing to dump green waste in front of your house. It will only make it difficult to have it picked up as there will be no regular service coming around to do that.

    Why does everyone in the city have to change so that your problem is handled. Why not just report the people who are doing the dumping, since you know who they are?”

    I don’t think you understand my point. I am wondering if the commercial people in the pilot area not having a place to dump their waste will force those that are inclined to do so, dump it elsewhere outside of the pilot area.

    I am not asking anyone to change their ways if what they are doing is legal. If you read my entire post you would have read that I was going to report the (believed)offender’s. Did I say this was going to handle my problem? I don’t think I did or implied it.

  93. View from The Darkside

    In answer to DPD, unless I am missing something, our taxes will have to pay for these 96-gallon containers. Our taxes will also have to pay to deal retrofitting the trucks or buying additional ones. (Then you watch the city council talk in the next breath about budget shortfalls)

    also, if people are priced out of Davis because of the water/sewer, you won’t need to worry about garbage pickup for residents who aren’t living here will you?

    The anonymous person raised a valid question. The proposal to make Holmes Jr. High a 4-9 gate school will require much administrative and other costs, in addition to the costs of shifting all the current students to the other Jr. High’s. They will need to purchase more lockers, more portables, etc. to pay for this fiasco.

    I can see the writing on the wall. Measure R is coming.

  94. View from The Darkside

    In answer to DPD, unless I am missing something, our taxes will have to pay for these 96-gallon containers. Our taxes will also have to pay to deal retrofitting the trucks or buying additional ones. (Then you watch the city council talk in the next breath about budget shortfalls)

    also, if people are priced out of Davis because of the water/sewer, you won’t need to worry about garbage pickup for residents who aren’t living here will you?

    The anonymous person raised a valid question. The proposal to make Holmes Jr. High a 4-9 gate school will require much administrative and other costs, in addition to the costs of shifting all the current students to the other Jr. High’s. They will need to purchase more lockers, more portables, etc. to pay for this fiasco.

    I can see the writing on the wall. Measure R is coming.

  95. View from The Darkside

    In answer to DPD, unless I am missing something, our taxes will have to pay for these 96-gallon containers. Our taxes will also have to pay to deal retrofitting the trucks or buying additional ones. (Then you watch the city council talk in the next breath about budget shortfalls)

    also, if people are priced out of Davis because of the water/sewer, you won’t need to worry about garbage pickup for residents who aren’t living here will you?

    The anonymous person raised a valid question. The proposal to make Holmes Jr. High a 4-9 gate school will require much administrative and other costs, in addition to the costs of shifting all the current students to the other Jr. High’s. They will need to purchase more lockers, more portables, etc. to pay for this fiasco.

    I can see the writing on the wall. Measure R is coming.

  96. View from The Darkside

    In answer to DPD, unless I am missing something, our taxes will have to pay for these 96-gallon containers. Our taxes will also have to pay to deal retrofitting the trucks or buying additional ones. (Then you watch the city council talk in the next breath about budget shortfalls)

    also, if people are priced out of Davis because of the water/sewer, you won’t need to worry about garbage pickup for residents who aren’t living here will you?

    The anonymous person raised a valid question. The proposal to make Holmes Jr. High a 4-9 gate school will require much administrative and other costs, in addition to the costs of shifting all the current students to the other Jr. High’s. They will need to purchase more lockers, more portables, etc. to pay for this fiasco.

    I can see the writing on the wall. Measure R is coming.

  97. Anonymous

    As usual a few whiners in this lace-panty city, have gotten the ears and hearts of council members for bike safety. What a crock and a load of deception as well. The same idiots that ride on 5th street(instead of on the sidewalk where they belong!!)are the same ones who don’t pay attention to where they are going and swerve into traffic. This problem does not require a city-wide response and one that is overly-burdensome to those of us lucky ones who have large mature trees. I will be forced to burn the leaves in my yard(discreetly of course…)because the green waste can won’t hold even 10% of the leaves our trees drop. Oh, and I live in a cul-de-sac as well so no one rides PAST my house-ever! If any of you don’t believe this stop by 1206 Colgate and I’ll explain my displeasure to you at length. Mr. Saylor, you sir, the king of hypocrisy(nice car by the way-buy it in Davis??)are especially invited. Fred Williams

  98. Anonymous

    As usual a few whiners in this lace-panty city, have gotten the ears and hearts of council members for bike safety. What a crock and a load of deception as well. The same idiots that ride on 5th street(instead of on the sidewalk where they belong!!)are the same ones who don’t pay attention to where they are going and swerve into traffic. This problem does not require a city-wide response and one that is overly-burdensome to those of us lucky ones who have large mature trees. I will be forced to burn the leaves in my yard(discreetly of course…)because the green waste can won’t hold even 10% of the leaves our trees drop. Oh, and I live in a cul-de-sac as well so no one rides PAST my house-ever! If any of you don’t believe this stop by 1206 Colgate and I’ll explain my displeasure to you at length. Mr. Saylor, you sir, the king of hypocrisy(nice car by the way-buy it in Davis??)are especially invited. Fred Williams

  99. Anonymous

    As usual a few whiners in this lace-panty city, have gotten the ears and hearts of council members for bike safety. What a crock and a load of deception as well. The same idiots that ride on 5th street(instead of on the sidewalk where they belong!!)are the same ones who don’t pay attention to where they are going and swerve into traffic. This problem does not require a city-wide response and one that is overly-burdensome to those of us lucky ones who have large mature trees. I will be forced to burn the leaves in my yard(discreetly of course…)because the green waste can won’t hold even 10% of the leaves our trees drop. Oh, and I live in a cul-de-sac as well so no one rides PAST my house-ever! If any of you don’t believe this stop by 1206 Colgate and I’ll explain my displeasure to you at length. Mr. Saylor, you sir, the king of hypocrisy(nice car by the way-buy it in Davis??)are especially invited. Fred Williams

  100. Anonymous

    As usual a few whiners in this lace-panty city, have gotten the ears and hearts of council members for bike safety. What a crock and a load of deception as well. The same idiots that ride on 5th street(instead of on the sidewalk where they belong!!)are the same ones who don’t pay attention to where they are going and swerve into traffic. This problem does not require a city-wide response and one that is overly-burdensome to those of us lucky ones who have large mature trees. I will be forced to burn the leaves in my yard(discreetly of course…)because the green waste can won’t hold even 10% of the leaves our trees drop. Oh, and I live in a cul-de-sac as well so no one rides PAST my house-ever! If any of you don’t believe this stop by 1206 Colgate and I’ll explain my displeasure to you at length. Mr. Saylor, you sir, the king of hypocrisy(nice car by the way-buy it in Davis??)are especially invited. Fred Williams

  101. Rich Rifkin

    “This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.”

    Your analysis of the parking permit situation is correct. However, I agree with David’s point that homeowners who are required to have containers — because they live on major arteries — won’t haul their green waste a quarter of a mile to dump it on a side street. Commercial operators may be a different story. If some did this, and it resulted in a real problem on a side street — I’m not sure it would — then a stiff fine would be in order.

    But back to parking permits…. We have them on my street and I hate having to pay to park in front of my house (or pay to have a guest permit for friends). Someone I ran into at a coffeehouse downtown (Ciocolat, as it happens) suggested something interesting: Have the city install parking meters in impacted areas. After the city gets its money back for the cost of the meter, all of the money put in the meter would go to the property owner. (Fines would go to the city, which would enforce the meter limits.) The owner, therefore, could park for free in front of his own house. Or if others grabbed the space for a few hours, the owner would benefit. The owner could even set the price and the hours limitations. I don’t know if anyone has ever tried this idea. But it seemed rather clever to me.

  102. Rich Rifkin

    “This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.”

    Your analysis of the parking permit situation is correct. However, I agree with David’s point that homeowners who are required to have containers — because they live on major arteries — won’t haul their green waste a quarter of a mile to dump it on a side street. Commercial operators may be a different story. If some did this, and it resulted in a real problem on a side street — I’m not sure it would — then a stiff fine would be in order.

    But back to parking permits…. We have them on my street and I hate having to pay to park in front of my house (or pay to have a guest permit for friends). Someone I ran into at a coffeehouse downtown (Ciocolat, as it happens) suggested something interesting: Have the city install parking meters in impacted areas. After the city gets its money back for the cost of the meter, all of the money put in the meter would go to the property owner. (Fines would go to the city, which would enforce the meter limits.) The owner, therefore, could park for free in front of his own house. Or if others grabbed the space for a few hours, the owner would benefit. The owner could even set the price and the hours limitations. I don’t know if anyone has ever tried this idea. But it seemed rather clever to me.

  103. Rich Rifkin

    “This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.”

    Your analysis of the parking permit situation is correct. However, I agree with David’s point that homeowners who are required to have containers — because they live on major arteries — won’t haul their green waste a quarter of a mile to dump it on a side street. Commercial operators may be a different story. If some did this, and it resulted in a real problem on a side street — I’m not sure it would — then a stiff fine would be in order.

    But back to parking permits…. We have them on my street and I hate having to pay to park in front of my house (or pay to have a guest permit for friends). Someone I ran into at a coffeehouse downtown (Ciocolat, as it happens) suggested something interesting: Have the city install parking meters in impacted areas. After the city gets its money back for the cost of the meter, all of the money put in the meter would go to the property owner. (Fines would go to the city, which would enforce the meter limits.) The owner, therefore, could park for free in front of his own house. Or if others grabbed the space for a few hours, the owner would benefit. The owner could even set the price and the hours limitations. I don’t know if anyone has ever tried this idea. But it seemed rather clever to me.

  104. Rich Rifkin

    “This is how the city created permit parking in every neighborhood. One neighborhood had a parking problem, they demanded and got permit parking, then the problem was forced off into adjoining neighborhoods, who then demanded permit parking, until all of Davis has permit parking, it seems.”

    Your analysis of the parking permit situation is correct. However, I agree with David’s point that homeowners who are required to have containers — because they live on major arteries — won’t haul their green waste a quarter of a mile to dump it on a side street. Commercial operators may be a different story. If some did this, and it resulted in a real problem on a side street — I’m not sure it would — then a stiff fine would be in order.

    But back to parking permits…. We have them on my street and I hate having to pay to park in front of my house (or pay to have a guest permit for friends). Someone I ran into at a coffeehouse downtown (Ciocolat, as it happens) suggested something interesting: Have the city install parking meters in impacted areas. After the city gets its money back for the cost of the meter, all of the money put in the meter would go to the property owner. (Fines would go to the city, which would enforce the meter limits.) The owner, therefore, could park for free in front of his own house. Or if others grabbed the space for a few hours, the owner would benefit. The owner could even set the price and the hours limitations. I don’t know if anyone has ever tried this idea. But it seemed rather clever to me.

  105. 無名 - wu ming

    most of davis does not have permit parking, it’s just the neighborhoods in the central parts of the city that do.

    and while i share fred williams’ irritation with people riding their bikes on 5th when there are zillions of other bike lane routes just a block away that work perfectly fine, there really isn’t anything one can do but swerve when a leaf pile blocks the entire bike lane.

    as for the concerns about green matter washing into storm drains, that is only a problem during those few months out of the year when it actually rains. most of the time the gutters are dry and dusty, and the green waste sits where it’s put (unless cars drive over it).

  106. 無名 - wu ming

    most of davis does not have permit parking, it’s just the neighborhoods in the central parts of the city that do.

    and while i share fred williams’ irritation with people riding their bikes on 5th when there are zillions of other bike lane routes just a block away that work perfectly fine, there really isn’t anything one can do but swerve when a leaf pile blocks the entire bike lane.

    as for the concerns about green matter washing into storm drains, that is only a problem during those few months out of the year when it actually rains. most of the time the gutters are dry and dusty, and the green waste sits where it’s put (unless cars drive over it).

  107. 無名 - wu ming

    most of davis does not have permit parking, it’s just the neighborhoods in the central parts of the city that do.

    and while i share fred williams’ irritation with people riding their bikes on 5th when there are zillions of other bike lane routes just a block away that work perfectly fine, there really isn’t anything one can do but swerve when a leaf pile blocks the entire bike lane.

    as for the concerns about green matter washing into storm drains, that is only a problem during those few months out of the year when it actually rains. most of the time the gutters are dry and dusty, and the green waste sits where it’s put (unless cars drive over it).

  108. 無名 - wu ming

    most of davis does not have permit parking, it’s just the neighborhoods in the central parts of the city that do.

    and while i share fred williams’ irritation with people riding their bikes on 5th when there are zillions of other bike lane routes just a block away that work perfectly fine, there really isn’t anything one can do but swerve when a leaf pile blocks the entire bike lane.

    as for the concerns about green matter washing into storm drains, that is only a problem during those few months out of the year when it actually rains. most of the time the gutters are dry and dusty, and the green waste sits where it’s put (unless cars drive over it).

  109. Anonymous

    and one more thing…….

    I just returned from delivering the Flatlander. I am all for banning EVERYTHING in the streets. Green waste piles, cars, basketball hoops, etc.. It’s impossible to deliver the paper while dodging all those obstacles.

    Member of the Flatlander Liberation Front

  110. Anonymous

    and one more thing…….

    I just returned from delivering the Flatlander. I am all for banning EVERYTHING in the streets. Green waste piles, cars, basketball hoops, etc.. It’s impossible to deliver the paper while dodging all those obstacles.

    Member of the Flatlander Liberation Front

  111. Anonymous

    and one more thing…….

    I just returned from delivering the Flatlander. I am all for banning EVERYTHING in the streets. Green waste piles, cars, basketball hoops, etc.. It’s impossible to deliver the paper while dodging all those obstacles.

    Member of the Flatlander Liberation Front

  112. Anonymous

    and one more thing…….

    I just returned from delivering the Flatlander. I am all for banning EVERYTHING in the streets. Green waste piles, cars, basketball hoops, etc.. It’s impossible to deliver the paper while dodging all those obstacles.

    Member of the Flatlander Liberation Front

  113. Anonymous

    View from the dark side –
    there will be no additional costs like you describe, i.e. more lockers, administration to make Holmes Jr. High a Gate magnet school. There are plenty of lockers at each of the Junior Highs to accomodate the Jr. High population and 4-6 graders do not need lockers. There is already an administrator at Holmes. There will be plenty of room without having to buy portables to house GATE students at the Holmes site. Holmes had up to 1100 students until Harper was built.

  114. Anonymous

    View from the dark side –
    there will be no additional costs like you describe, i.e. more lockers, administration to make Holmes Jr. High a Gate magnet school. There are plenty of lockers at each of the Junior Highs to accomodate the Jr. High population and 4-6 graders do not need lockers. There is already an administrator at Holmes. There will be plenty of room without having to buy portables to house GATE students at the Holmes site. Holmes had up to 1100 students until Harper was built.

  115. Anonymous

    View from the dark side –
    there will be no additional costs like you describe, i.e. more lockers, administration to make Holmes Jr. High a Gate magnet school. There are plenty of lockers at each of the Junior Highs to accomodate the Jr. High population and 4-6 graders do not need lockers. There is already an administrator at Holmes. There will be plenty of room without having to buy portables to house GATE students at the Holmes site. Holmes had up to 1100 students until Harper was built.

  116. Anonymous

    View from the dark side –
    there will be no additional costs like you describe, i.e. more lockers, administration to make Holmes Jr. High a Gate magnet school. There are plenty of lockers at each of the Junior Highs to accomodate the Jr. High population and 4-6 graders do not need lockers. There is already an administrator at Holmes. There will be plenty of room without having to buy portables to house GATE students at the Holmes site. Holmes had up to 1100 students until Harper was built.

  117. Anonymous

    There is absolutely no way that my Christmas tree will be able to fit into one of those containers.

    I will also miss the appearance of naked trees sitting out on the street as the official end of the holidays.

    I also would have no where to store the green thing, so don’t drop one off at my house.

    I can envision my neighbors hauling their clippings out to the street in the middle of the night and be added to the number of things that normally law-abiding citizen’s do to break the law, such as slipping the dog off their lease for a short romp in the park at 10:00 pm, riding on the sidewalk along 5th street, cutting through the sudwerk parking lot to get to 2nd street or the other direction to get to the Post Office, etc.

  118. don shor

    “Loose in the street-only pick up from October 15 to January 15. During this heavy leaf drop season, all green waste should be placed in the street.”
    During the period of maximum organic debris, it would all be in the street and gutter. So the wastewater argument seems irrelevant.

    It would be nearly impossible for landscape contractors to comply with this. Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.

    Many homeowners would also have difficulty complying with it. Cutting branches and debris into these totes is very cumbersome. Basically the only things that are convenient to put in them are garden wastes, lawn clippings, and leaves. And leaves won’t be picked up in the totes in the fall.

    Our trash provider went to these for our rural area in Solano County a couple of years ago. Within less than a year they had abandoned the program.

    Really, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. But perhaps they could make it voluntary, to see what the public response is.

  119. Anonymous

    There is absolutely no way that my Christmas tree will be able to fit into one of those containers.

    I will also miss the appearance of naked trees sitting out on the street as the official end of the holidays.

    I also would have no where to store the green thing, so don’t drop one off at my house.

    I can envision my neighbors hauling their clippings out to the street in the middle of the night and be added to the number of things that normally law-abiding citizen’s do to break the law, such as slipping the dog off their lease for a short romp in the park at 10:00 pm, riding on the sidewalk along 5th street, cutting through the sudwerk parking lot to get to 2nd street or the other direction to get to the Post Office, etc.

  120. don shor

    “Loose in the street-only pick up from October 15 to January 15. During this heavy leaf drop season, all green waste should be placed in the street.”
    During the period of maximum organic debris, it would all be in the street and gutter. So the wastewater argument seems irrelevant.

    It would be nearly impossible for landscape contractors to comply with this. Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.

    Many homeowners would also have difficulty complying with it. Cutting branches and debris into these totes is very cumbersome. Basically the only things that are convenient to put in them are garden wastes, lawn clippings, and leaves. And leaves won’t be picked up in the totes in the fall.

    Our trash provider went to these for our rural area in Solano County a couple of years ago. Within less than a year they had abandoned the program.

    Really, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. But perhaps they could make it voluntary, to see what the public response is.

  121. Anonymous

    There is absolutely no way that my Christmas tree will be able to fit into one of those containers.

    I will also miss the appearance of naked trees sitting out on the street as the official end of the holidays.

    I also would have no where to store the green thing, so don’t drop one off at my house.

    I can envision my neighbors hauling their clippings out to the street in the middle of the night and be added to the number of things that normally law-abiding citizen’s do to break the law, such as slipping the dog off their lease for a short romp in the park at 10:00 pm, riding on the sidewalk along 5th street, cutting through the sudwerk parking lot to get to 2nd street or the other direction to get to the Post Office, etc.

  122. don shor

    “Loose in the street-only pick up from October 15 to January 15. During this heavy leaf drop season, all green waste should be placed in the street.”
    During the period of maximum organic debris, it would all be in the street and gutter. So the wastewater argument seems irrelevant.

    It would be nearly impossible for landscape contractors to comply with this. Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.

    Many homeowners would also have difficulty complying with it. Cutting branches and debris into these totes is very cumbersome. Basically the only things that are convenient to put in them are garden wastes, lawn clippings, and leaves. And leaves won’t be picked up in the totes in the fall.

    Our trash provider went to these for our rural area in Solano County a couple of years ago. Within less than a year they had abandoned the program.

    Really, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. But perhaps they could make it voluntary, to see what the public response is.

  123. Anonymous

    There is absolutely no way that my Christmas tree will be able to fit into one of those containers.

    I will also miss the appearance of naked trees sitting out on the street as the official end of the holidays.

    I also would have no where to store the green thing, so don’t drop one off at my house.

    I can envision my neighbors hauling their clippings out to the street in the middle of the night and be added to the number of things that normally law-abiding citizen’s do to break the law, such as slipping the dog off their lease for a short romp in the park at 10:00 pm, riding on the sidewalk along 5th street, cutting through the sudwerk parking lot to get to 2nd street or the other direction to get to the Post Office, etc.

  124. don shor

    “Loose in the street-only pick up from October 15 to January 15. During this heavy leaf drop season, all green waste should be placed in the street.”
    During the period of maximum organic debris, it would all be in the street and gutter. So the wastewater argument seems irrelevant.

    It would be nearly impossible for landscape contractors to comply with this. Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.

    Many homeowners would also have difficulty complying with it. Cutting branches and debris into these totes is very cumbersome. Basically the only things that are convenient to put in them are garden wastes, lawn clippings, and leaves. And leaves won’t be picked up in the totes in the fall.

    Our trash provider went to these for our rural area in Solano County a couple of years ago. Within less than a year they had abandoned the program.

    Really, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. But perhaps they could make it voluntary, to see what the public response is.

  125. sah

    I live in a place where containers have been used for years and it really is not a problem. My neighbor, across the street, lives on an acre and has more vegetation than 99% of people living in Davis. He has five containters and he fills them every two weeks.

    As for cutting up things – it is worthwhile exercise. It helps maintain the strength in my hands. I put branches in the container up to about 3 inches in diameter. I suggest you buy a good pair of clippers and a large rubber dust pan.

    Xmas trees do not go into the containters – they go on the side and are picked up separately.

    The clippings are efficiently picked up and when the pick up is complete there is no debris left in the street. I suppose it may be a little more work for the homeowner, but it is only a few minutes of extra work per week

  126. sah

    I live in a place where containers have been used for years and it really is not a problem. My neighbor, across the street, lives on an acre and has more vegetation than 99% of people living in Davis. He has five containters and he fills them every two weeks.

    As for cutting up things – it is worthwhile exercise. It helps maintain the strength in my hands. I put branches in the container up to about 3 inches in diameter. I suggest you buy a good pair of clippers and a large rubber dust pan.

    Xmas trees do not go into the containters – they go on the side and are picked up separately.

    The clippings are efficiently picked up and when the pick up is complete there is no debris left in the street. I suppose it may be a little more work for the homeowner, but it is only a few minutes of extra work per week

  127. sah

    I live in a place where containers have been used for years and it really is not a problem. My neighbor, across the street, lives on an acre and has more vegetation than 99% of people living in Davis. He has five containters and he fills them every two weeks.

    As for cutting up things – it is worthwhile exercise. It helps maintain the strength in my hands. I put branches in the container up to about 3 inches in diameter. I suggest you buy a good pair of clippers and a large rubber dust pan.

    Xmas trees do not go into the containters – they go on the side and are picked up separately.

    The clippings are efficiently picked up and when the pick up is complete there is no debris left in the street. I suppose it may be a little more work for the homeowner, but it is only a few minutes of extra work per week

  128. sah

    I live in a place where containers have been used for years and it really is not a problem. My neighbor, across the street, lives on an acre and has more vegetation than 99% of people living in Davis. He has five containters and he fills them every two weeks.

    As for cutting up things – it is worthwhile exercise. It helps maintain the strength in my hands. I put branches in the container up to about 3 inches in diameter. I suggest you buy a good pair of clippers and a large rubber dust pan.

    Xmas trees do not go into the containters – they go on the side and are picked up separately.

    The clippings are efficiently picked up and when the pick up is complete there is no debris left in the street. I suppose it may be a little more work for the homeowner, but it is only a few minutes of extra work per week

  129. Darnell Watson

    The solution in search of a problem is strictly for bicycle safety according to the paragraph taken from the city website noted below.

    This project will help determine the effect of containerization on bicycle safety. After the trial period, an assessment of the containerization program will be done to measure the effectiveness of the pilot. Measures that city staff will employ to make that assessment will be bike crash reports, customer feedback, survey of pilot participants and amount of green waste collected to ensure that diversion from the landfill is not being adversely affected.

    If the pilot is successful do you then implement the program throughout the city? I’ve seen about two people bicycle down my street this week.

    Seems to me there should be one day a month or so scheduled where you could throw your green waste out for pick-up. I liken it to the Bulky Item Drop-Off at the Recycle Center.

  130. Darnell Watson

    The solution in search of a problem is strictly for bicycle safety according to the paragraph taken from the city website noted below.

    This project will help determine the effect of containerization on bicycle safety. After the trial period, an assessment of the containerization program will be done to measure the effectiveness of the pilot. Measures that city staff will employ to make that assessment will be bike crash reports, customer feedback, survey of pilot participants and amount of green waste collected to ensure that diversion from the landfill is not being adversely affected.

    If the pilot is successful do you then implement the program throughout the city? I’ve seen about two people bicycle down my street this week.

    Seems to me there should be one day a month or so scheduled where you could throw your green waste out for pick-up. I liken it to the Bulky Item Drop-Off at the Recycle Center.

  131. Darnell Watson

    The solution in search of a problem is strictly for bicycle safety according to the paragraph taken from the city website noted below.

    This project will help determine the effect of containerization on bicycle safety. After the trial period, an assessment of the containerization program will be done to measure the effectiveness of the pilot. Measures that city staff will employ to make that assessment will be bike crash reports, customer feedback, survey of pilot participants and amount of green waste collected to ensure that diversion from the landfill is not being adversely affected.

    If the pilot is successful do you then implement the program throughout the city? I’ve seen about two people bicycle down my street this week.

    Seems to me there should be one day a month or so scheduled where you could throw your green waste out for pick-up. I liken it to the Bulky Item Drop-Off at the Recycle Center.

  132. Darnell Watson

    The solution in search of a problem is strictly for bicycle safety according to the paragraph taken from the city website noted below.

    This project will help determine the effect of containerization on bicycle safety. After the trial period, an assessment of the containerization program will be done to measure the effectiveness of the pilot. Measures that city staff will employ to make that assessment will be bike crash reports, customer feedback, survey of pilot participants and amount of green waste collected to ensure that diversion from the landfill is not being adversely affected.

    If the pilot is successful do you then implement the program throughout the city? I’ve seen about two people bicycle down my street this week.

    Seems to me there should be one day a month or so scheduled where you could throw your green waste out for pick-up. I liken it to the Bulky Item Drop-Off at the Recycle Center.

  133. frugal davis homeowner

    Green Waste containers work for communities where the overwhelming majority of trees are maintained by the municipality. Davis, Woodland and Sacramento are delightfully wooded on private property. I do as much pruning as I can myself. If needed, I shop around for tree trimmers who work for themselves but without the equipment/overhead of the major arborist operations. I do not need to be paying for building rent,office help, owners who handle a clipboard rather than a chainsaw and major equipment overhead that I do not need for my job.
    Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.

  134. frugal davis homeowner

    Green Waste containers work for communities where the overwhelming majority of trees are maintained by the municipality. Davis, Woodland and Sacramento are delightfully wooded on private property. I do as much pruning as I can myself. If needed, I shop around for tree trimmers who work for themselves but without the equipment/overhead of the major arborist operations. I do not need to be paying for building rent,office help, owners who handle a clipboard rather than a chainsaw and major equipment overhead that I do not need for my job.
    Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.

  135. frugal davis homeowner

    Green Waste containers work for communities where the overwhelming majority of trees are maintained by the municipality. Davis, Woodland and Sacramento are delightfully wooded on private property. I do as much pruning as I can myself. If needed, I shop around for tree trimmers who work for themselves but without the equipment/overhead of the major arborist operations. I do not need to be paying for building rent,office help, owners who handle a clipboard rather than a chainsaw and major equipment overhead that I do not need for my job.
    Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.

  136. frugal davis homeowner

    Green Waste containers work for communities where the overwhelming majority of trees are maintained by the municipality. Davis, Woodland and Sacramento are delightfully wooded on private property. I do as much pruning as I can myself. If needed, I shop around for tree trimmers who work for themselves but without the equipment/overhead of the major arborist operations. I do not need to be paying for building rent,office help, owners who handle a clipboard rather than a chainsaw and major equipment overhead that I do not need for my job.
    Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.

  137. Anonymous

    “Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.”

    DWR undoubtedly sees this pilot project as the first step to abandoning regular green waste pick-up from all of Davis except perhaps for the fall leaf-drop months. A permanent dual pick-up system of green waste containers for designated streets and continuing “claw” street pick-up for the rest of Davis would increase DWR’s cost of operations, a business heresy.

  138. Anonymous

    “Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.”

    DWR undoubtedly sees this pilot project as the first step to abandoning regular green waste pick-up from all of Davis except perhaps for the fall leaf-drop months. A permanent dual pick-up system of green waste containers for designated streets and continuing “claw” street pick-up for the rest of Davis would increase DWR’s cost of operations, a business heresy.

  139. Anonymous

    “Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.”

    DWR undoubtedly sees this pilot project as the first step to abandoning regular green waste pick-up from all of Davis except perhaps for the fall leaf-drop months. A permanent dual pick-up system of green waste containers for designated streets and continuing “claw” street pick-up for the rest of Davis would increase DWR’s cost of operations, a business heresy.

  140. Anonymous

    “Don’t be suckered by the “pilot project” spin.. it is only a first step to innoculate Davis homeowners to this inconvenience.”

    DWR undoubtedly sees this pilot project as the first step to abandoning regular green waste pick-up from all of Davis except perhaps for the fall leaf-drop months. A permanent dual pick-up system of green waste containers for designated streets and continuing “claw” street pick-up for the rest of Davis would increase DWR’s cost of operations, a business heresy.

  141. frugal home owner

    Rich Rifkin said:
    $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    Good luck! For the work you describe, $3-500 will get you one guy who works for himself, you work as the ground help, no cherry-picker or truck, no chipper and piles left in front of your home. You’re looking at easily double your estimate from the major arborist operations.

  142. frugal home owner

    Rich Rifkin said:
    $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    Good luck! For the work you describe, $3-500 will get you one guy who works for himself, you work as the ground help, no cherry-picker or truck, no chipper and piles left in front of your home. You’re looking at easily double your estimate from the major arborist operations.

  143. frugal home owner

    Rich Rifkin said:
    $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    Good luck! For the work you describe, $3-500 will get you one guy who works for himself, you work as the ground help, no cherry-picker or truck, no chipper and piles left in front of your home. You’re looking at easily double your estimate from the major arborist operations.

  144. frugal home owner

    Rich Rifkin said:
    $300-$500 to get a professional company to come in and do the job and haul away the waste.

    Good luck! For the work you describe, $3-500 will get you one guy who works for himself, you work as the ground help, no cherry-picker or truck, no chipper and piles left in front of your home. You’re looking at easily double your estimate from the major arborist operations.

  145. Rich Rifkin

    “Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.”

    A number of years ago, when I was in need of some mulch, I asked a professional tree trimming company which was working in my neighborhood if they could please leave a few yards of their cuttings — which they had run through a serious wood-chipper — in front of my house. I was then going to spread them in various parts of our garden. He said he couldn’t legally do that. But one of his coworkers told me, as I was walking away, that they dumped their waste over at the empty lot on Grande (not near my house at all). That surprised me. I walk my dog past the Grande school property all the time and have never seen green waste dumped there. (It would not harm anything if it was dumped there, of course.)

    I wonder if anyone else knows about this practice — commercial arborists just dumping their green waste in empty lots?

  146. Rich Rifkin

    “Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.”

    A number of years ago, when I was in need of some mulch, I asked a professional tree trimming company which was working in my neighborhood if they could please leave a few yards of their cuttings — which they had run through a serious wood-chipper — in front of my house. I was then going to spread them in various parts of our garden. He said he couldn’t legally do that. But one of his coworkers told me, as I was walking away, that they dumped their waste over at the empty lot on Grande (not near my house at all). That surprised me. I walk my dog past the Grande school property all the time and have never seen green waste dumped there. (It would not harm anything if it was dumped there, of course.)

    I wonder if anyone else knows about this practice — commercial arborists just dumping their green waste in empty lots?

  147. Rich Rifkin

    “Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.”

    A number of years ago, when I was in need of some mulch, I asked a professional tree trimming company which was working in my neighborhood if they could please leave a few yards of their cuttings — which they had run through a serious wood-chipper — in front of my house. I was then going to spread them in various parts of our garden. He said he couldn’t legally do that. But one of his coworkers told me, as I was walking away, that they dumped their waste over at the empty lot on Grande (not near my house at all). That surprised me. I walk my dog past the Grande school property all the time and have never seen green waste dumped there. (It would not harm anything if it was dumped there, of course.)

    I wonder if anyone else knows about this practice — commercial arborists just dumping their green waste in empty lots?

  148. Rich Rifkin

    “Yard prunings that they are stacking in the street would have to be hauled to the landfill.”

    A number of years ago, when I was in need of some mulch, I asked a professional tree trimming company which was working in my neighborhood if they could please leave a few yards of their cuttings — which they had run through a serious wood-chipper — in front of my house. I was then going to spread them in various parts of our garden. He said he couldn’t legally do that. But one of his coworkers told me, as I was walking away, that they dumped their waste over at the empty lot on Grande (not near my house at all). That surprised me. I walk my dog past the Grande school property all the time and have never seen green waste dumped there. (It would not harm anything if it was dumped there, of course.)

    I wonder if anyone else knows about this practice — commercial arborists just dumping their green waste in empty lots?

  149. Anonymous

    the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.
    Are we that helpless we can’t just move our own stuff to the central compost site, which would then supply the resulting fertilizer to folks as the seasons turn?
    Ah, I forgot, Davis hoighty-toighties don’t want to get their hands dirty.
    The concept of taking responsiblity for your own clippings is not abstract enough for helpless Davis homeowners perhaps?
    In the midwestern town in which I grew up, the hauling of clippings to the dump, along with bundles of newspapers and other degradable waste was a big event in the fall.
    They’d even pay you a pittance for your recyclabes, because the city government made money off reselling the pulp to paper companies.
    The problem with all the comments above is a narcissistic lack of imagination and self-sufficiency–expecting the “government” to take care of personal problems of the spoiled citizenry.

  150. Anonymous

    the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.
    Are we that helpless we can’t just move our own stuff to the central compost site, which would then supply the resulting fertilizer to folks as the seasons turn?
    Ah, I forgot, Davis hoighty-toighties don’t want to get their hands dirty.
    The concept of taking responsiblity for your own clippings is not abstract enough for helpless Davis homeowners perhaps?
    In the midwestern town in which I grew up, the hauling of clippings to the dump, along with bundles of newspapers and other degradable waste was a big event in the fall.
    They’d even pay you a pittance for your recyclabes, because the city government made money off reselling the pulp to paper companies.
    The problem with all the comments above is a narcissistic lack of imagination and self-sufficiency–expecting the “government” to take care of personal problems of the spoiled citizenry.

  151. Anonymous

    the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.
    Are we that helpless we can’t just move our own stuff to the central compost site, which would then supply the resulting fertilizer to folks as the seasons turn?
    Ah, I forgot, Davis hoighty-toighties don’t want to get their hands dirty.
    The concept of taking responsiblity for your own clippings is not abstract enough for helpless Davis homeowners perhaps?
    In the midwestern town in which I grew up, the hauling of clippings to the dump, along with bundles of newspapers and other degradable waste was a big event in the fall.
    They’d even pay you a pittance for your recyclabes, because the city government made money off reselling the pulp to paper companies.
    The problem with all the comments above is a narcissistic lack of imagination and self-sufficiency–expecting the “government” to take care of personal problems of the spoiled citizenry.

  152. Anonymous

    the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.
    Are we that helpless we can’t just move our own stuff to the central compost site, which would then supply the resulting fertilizer to folks as the seasons turn?
    Ah, I forgot, Davis hoighty-toighties don’t want to get their hands dirty.
    The concept of taking responsiblity for your own clippings is not abstract enough for helpless Davis homeowners perhaps?
    In the midwestern town in which I grew up, the hauling of clippings to the dump, along with bundles of newspapers and other degradable waste was a big event in the fall.
    They’d even pay you a pittance for your recyclabes, because the city government made money off reselling the pulp to paper companies.
    The problem with all the comments above is a narcissistic lack of imagination and self-sufficiency–expecting the “government” to take care of personal problems of the spoiled citizenry.

  153. Rich Rifkin

    “the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.”

    That would be a waste of gasoline.

    Every single ounce of green waste picked up by the DWR is already taken to a central site where it is composted.

    The city used to provide free compost to anyone who wanted it every April at the community gardens on 5th Street. However, because the compost is sold commercially, the city stopped giving it away.

  154. Rich Rifkin

    “the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.”

    That would be a waste of gasoline.

    Every single ounce of green waste picked up by the DWR is already taken to a central site where it is composted.

    The city used to provide free compost to anyone who wanted it every April at the community gardens on 5th Street. However, because the compost is sold commercially, the city stopped giving it away.

  155. Rich Rifkin

    “the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.”

    That would be a waste of gasoline.

    Every single ounce of green waste picked up by the DWR is already taken to a central site where it is composted.

    The city used to provide free compost to anyone who wanted it every April at the community gardens on 5th Street. However, because the compost is sold commercially, the city stopped giving it away.

  156. Rich Rifkin

    “the city should open a major compost site, to which homeowners could transport their leaves, twigs and dead annuals, etc.”

    That would be a waste of gasoline.

    Every single ounce of green waste picked up by the DWR is already taken to a central site where it is composted.

    The city used to provide free compost to anyone who wanted it every April at the community gardens on 5th Street. However, because the compost is sold commercially, the city stopped giving it away.

  157. Darnell Watson

    Not only is it a waste of gas, how would you suggest they transport it there? Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles. Many of the people in Davis aren’t equipped to do that. Street pick up either containerized or loose is the way to go.

  158. Darnell Watson

    Not only is it a waste of gas, how would you suggest they transport it there? Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles. Many of the people in Davis aren’t equipped to do that. Street pick up either containerized or loose is the way to go.

  159. Darnell Watson

    Not only is it a waste of gas, how would you suggest they transport it there? Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles. Many of the people in Davis aren’t equipped to do that. Street pick up either containerized or loose is the way to go.

  160. Darnell Watson

    Not only is it a waste of gas, how would you suggest they transport it there? Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles. Many of the people in Davis aren’t equipped to do that. Street pick up either containerized or loose is the way to go.

  161. don shor

    This is likely to be an uphill battle.

    From the city staff reports:

    95% of residents are satisfied with the current system, and 63% oppose containerization.

    Woodland’s program caused “significant citizen outcry.”

    “….[T]here is no science to indicate what the collection methods effect on the amount of organics in storm water is….”

    It would be interesting to see actual bike crash data, since the city report indicates that they will review that data to assess how effective the program is. So presumably there is a baseline. How common are bike accidents that result from yard waste piles in the street?

  162. don shor

    This is likely to be an uphill battle.

    From the city staff reports:

    95% of residents are satisfied with the current system, and 63% oppose containerization.

    Woodland’s program caused “significant citizen outcry.”

    “….[T]here is no science to indicate what the collection methods effect on the amount of organics in storm water is….”

    It would be interesting to see actual bike crash data, since the city report indicates that they will review that data to assess how effective the program is. So presumably there is a baseline. How common are bike accidents that result from yard waste piles in the street?

  163. don shor

    This is likely to be an uphill battle.

    From the city staff reports:

    95% of residents are satisfied with the current system, and 63% oppose containerization.

    Woodland’s program caused “significant citizen outcry.”

    “….[T]here is no science to indicate what the collection methods effect on the amount of organics in storm water is….”

    It would be interesting to see actual bike crash data, since the city report indicates that they will review that data to assess how effective the program is. So presumably there is a baseline. How common are bike accidents that result from yard waste piles in the street?

  164. don shor

    This is likely to be an uphill battle.

    From the city staff reports:

    95% of residents are satisfied with the current system, and 63% oppose containerization.

    Woodland’s program caused “significant citizen outcry.”

    “….[T]here is no science to indicate what the collection methods effect on the amount of organics in storm water is….”

    It would be interesting to see actual bike crash data, since the city report indicates that they will review that data to assess how effective the program is. So presumably there is a baseline. How common are bike accidents that result from yard waste piles in the street?

  165. For Petes Sake

    I was not exaggerating when I said I got a note from DWR to remove the caps on my plastic milk containers. I couldn’t believe the stupidity of it either! These are the gist of the notes I received:
    1) Too big, must break down into smaller pieces.
    2) Pieces are too big, must be smaller
    3) Pieces are still too big, must be made even smaller (gave dimensions)
    4) You have left too much debris for one pickup
    5) The paper is wet because of rain, so we will not pick it up
    6) All caps from milk bottles must be removed
    7) Do not put glass bottles with paper labels in recycle bin
    8) Containers must have proper number on label/bottle to be placed in recyclable container

    I have two huge containers in my garage. I do not want a third container with molding grass and leaves in there to stink my house up.

    I am perfectly willing to go back to the old system of putting grass clippings inside a big black plastic lawn bag. It is nice and neat; cheap and will not cost DWR anything; will save the city all sorts of money by doing away with the need for new containers, new trucks, gas to run them, employees to drive them, staff to write reports about them, etc, etc, etc.

    A big black lawn bag is just as easy to avoid for a cyclist as a huge plastic container.

    Leave it to the city of Davis to find the absolutely most expensive way to “look for a problem to solve”. When the city can’t think of something, make one up is the key – it gives the City Council something to talk about!

    The stupidity of this is astounding to me. Not only that, I agree with a previous commenter, who noted all the expenses coming down the pike – Measure R to pay for past school board blunders; not to mention huge water/sewer rate increases on their way.

    But oh no, we are going to talk to death another little issue that has been created by a dorky City Council, so they can avoid the big elephant in the room – what to do about $200 – $300 per month or more water/sewer fees. When there is a mass exodus of homeowners selling up and moving out of Davis, tell me how important it was to make sure everyone had three trash containers each! I cannot believe the inaneness of it all!

  166. For Petes Sake

    I was not exaggerating when I said I got a note from DWR to remove the caps on my plastic milk containers. I couldn’t believe the stupidity of it either! These are the gist of the notes I received:
    1) Too big, must break down into smaller pieces.
    2) Pieces are too big, must be smaller
    3) Pieces are still too big, must be made even smaller (gave dimensions)
    4) You have left too much debris for one pickup
    5) The paper is wet because of rain, so we will not pick it up
    6) All caps from milk bottles must be removed
    7) Do not put glass bottles with paper labels in recycle bin
    8) Containers must have proper number on label/bottle to be placed in recyclable container

    I have two huge containers in my garage. I do not want a third container with molding grass and leaves in there to stink my house up.

    I am perfectly willing to go back to the old system of putting grass clippings inside a big black plastic lawn bag. It is nice and neat; cheap and will not cost DWR anything; will save the city all sorts of money by doing away with the need for new containers, new trucks, gas to run them, employees to drive them, staff to write reports about them, etc, etc, etc.

    A big black lawn bag is just as easy to avoid for a cyclist as a huge plastic container.

    Leave it to the city of Davis to find the absolutely most expensive way to “look for a problem to solve”. When the city can’t think of something, make one up is the key – it gives the City Council something to talk about!

    The stupidity of this is astounding to me. Not only that, I agree with a previous commenter, who noted all the expenses coming down the pike – Measure R to pay for past school board blunders; not to mention huge water/sewer rate increases on their way.

    But oh no, we are going to talk to death another little issue that has been created by a dorky City Council, so they can avoid the big elephant in the room – what to do about $200 – $300 per month or more water/sewer fees. When there is a mass exodus of homeowners selling up and moving out of Davis, tell me how important it was to make sure everyone had three trash containers each! I cannot believe the inaneness of it all!

  167. For Petes Sake

    I was not exaggerating when I said I got a note from DWR to remove the caps on my plastic milk containers. I couldn’t believe the stupidity of it either! These are the gist of the notes I received:
    1) Too big, must break down into smaller pieces.
    2) Pieces are too big, must be smaller
    3) Pieces are still too big, must be made even smaller (gave dimensions)
    4) You have left too much debris for one pickup
    5) The paper is wet because of rain, so we will not pick it up
    6) All caps from milk bottles must be removed
    7) Do not put glass bottles with paper labels in recycle bin
    8) Containers must have proper number on label/bottle to be placed in recyclable container

    I have two huge containers in my garage. I do not want a third container with molding grass and leaves in there to stink my house up.

    I am perfectly willing to go back to the old system of putting grass clippings inside a big black plastic lawn bag. It is nice and neat; cheap and will not cost DWR anything; will save the city all sorts of money by doing away with the need for new containers, new trucks, gas to run them, employees to drive them, staff to write reports about them, etc, etc, etc.

    A big black lawn bag is just as easy to avoid for a cyclist as a huge plastic container.

    Leave it to the city of Davis to find the absolutely most expensive way to “look for a problem to solve”. When the city can’t think of something, make one up is the key – it gives the City Council something to talk about!

    The stupidity of this is astounding to me. Not only that, I agree with a previous commenter, who noted all the expenses coming down the pike – Measure R to pay for past school board blunders; not to mention huge water/sewer rate increases on their way.

    But oh no, we are going to talk to death another little issue that has been created by a dorky City Council, so they can avoid the big elephant in the room – what to do about $200 – $300 per month or more water/sewer fees. When there is a mass exodus of homeowners selling up and moving out of Davis, tell me how important it was to make sure everyone had three trash containers each! I cannot believe the inaneness of it all!

  168. For Petes Sake

    I was not exaggerating when I said I got a note from DWR to remove the caps on my plastic milk containers. I couldn’t believe the stupidity of it either! These are the gist of the notes I received:
    1) Too big, must break down into smaller pieces.
    2) Pieces are too big, must be smaller
    3) Pieces are still too big, must be made even smaller (gave dimensions)
    4) You have left too much debris for one pickup
    5) The paper is wet because of rain, so we will not pick it up
    6) All caps from milk bottles must be removed
    7) Do not put glass bottles with paper labels in recycle bin
    8) Containers must have proper number on label/bottle to be placed in recyclable container

    I have two huge containers in my garage. I do not want a third container with molding grass and leaves in there to stink my house up.

    I am perfectly willing to go back to the old system of putting grass clippings inside a big black plastic lawn bag. It is nice and neat; cheap and will not cost DWR anything; will save the city all sorts of money by doing away with the need for new containers, new trucks, gas to run them, employees to drive them, staff to write reports about them, etc, etc, etc.

    A big black lawn bag is just as easy to avoid for a cyclist as a huge plastic container.

    Leave it to the city of Davis to find the absolutely most expensive way to “look for a problem to solve”. When the city can’t think of something, make one up is the key – it gives the City Council something to talk about!

    The stupidity of this is astounding to me. Not only that, I agree with a previous commenter, who noted all the expenses coming down the pike – Measure R to pay for past school board blunders; not to mention huge water/sewer rate increases on their way.

    But oh no, we are going to talk to death another little issue that has been created by a dorky City Council, so they can avoid the big elephant in the room – what to do about $200 – $300 per month or more water/sewer fees. When there is a mass exodus of homeowners selling up and moving out of Davis, tell me how important it was to make sure everyone had three trash containers each! I cannot believe the inaneness of it all!

  169. 無名 - wu ming

    noone’s forcing you to stay here. i’m sure there are other towns out there where they don’t force you to follow recycling guidelines and charge less for their utilities.

    i’d be surprised if there was an exodus of homeowners over the higher water fees, though, and doubly surprised if other buyers didn’t snap their property up immediately (or after the prices drop). the last time the city lost population was in the depression, IIRC.

    it is telling that noone noticed (much less protested) as thousands of renters were forced out of town due to the tight and overpriced rental market over the past several years, though.

  170. 無名 - wu ming

    noone’s forcing you to stay here. i’m sure there are other towns out there where they don’t force you to follow recycling guidelines and charge less for their utilities.

    i’d be surprised if there was an exodus of homeowners over the higher water fees, though, and doubly surprised if other buyers didn’t snap their property up immediately (or after the prices drop). the last time the city lost population was in the depression, IIRC.

    it is telling that noone noticed (much less protested) as thousands of renters were forced out of town due to the tight and overpriced rental market over the past several years, though.

  171. 無名 - wu ming

    noone’s forcing you to stay here. i’m sure there are other towns out there where they don’t force you to follow recycling guidelines and charge less for their utilities.

    i’d be surprised if there was an exodus of homeowners over the higher water fees, though, and doubly surprised if other buyers didn’t snap their property up immediately (or after the prices drop). the last time the city lost population was in the depression, IIRC.

    it is telling that noone noticed (much less protested) as thousands of renters were forced out of town due to the tight and overpriced rental market over the past several years, though.

  172. 無名 - wu ming

    noone’s forcing you to stay here. i’m sure there are other towns out there where they don’t force you to follow recycling guidelines and charge less for their utilities.

    i’d be surprised if there was an exodus of homeowners over the higher water fees, though, and doubly surprised if other buyers didn’t snap their property up immediately (or after the prices drop). the last time the city lost population was in the depression, IIRC.

    it is telling that noone noticed (much less protested) as thousands of renters were forced out of town due to the tight and overpriced rental market over the past several years, though.

  173. Anonymous

    Dear Darnell Watson,
    You ask: “Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles.”
    Well, back there, it was just garbage trucks which came around, the garbagemen hanging off the rear of the trucks, jumping down, raking up the piles of leaves left over from our curbside bonfires into the gaping maws of their garbage trucks. Or there’d be a bunch of neighbors going in on the rental of a trailer to haul the compost-to-be, along with whatever could be loaded in the back of the station wagons.
    No big deal. People, grownups, in my Midwestern neighborhood had better things to do, like making a living, than bitching about … whatever. Sheesh, you guys: get a life! Asking Mama-Papa City of Davis to hold your hand and make it all better, bunch of narcissists you are. Suck it up, grow up!

  174. Anonymous

    Dear Darnell Watson,
    You ask: “Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles.”
    Well, back there, it was just garbage trucks which came around, the garbagemen hanging off the rear of the trucks, jumping down, raking up the piles of leaves left over from our curbside bonfires into the gaping maws of their garbage trucks. Or there’d be a bunch of neighbors going in on the rental of a trailer to haul the compost-to-be, along with whatever could be loaded in the back of the station wagons.
    No big deal. People, grownups, in my Midwestern neighborhood had better things to do, like making a living, than bitching about … whatever. Sheesh, you guys: get a life! Asking Mama-Papa City of Davis to hold your hand and make it all better, bunch of narcissists you are. Suck it up, grow up!

  175. Anonymous

    Dear Darnell Watson,
    You ask: “Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles.”
    Well, back there, it was just garbage trucks which came around, the garbagemen hanging off the rear of the trucks, jumping down, raking up the piles of leaves left over from our curbside bonfires into the gaping maws of their garbage trucks. Or there’d be a bunch of neighbors going in on the rental of a trailer to haul the compost-to-be, along with whatever could be loaded in the back of the station wagons.
    No big deal. People, grownups, in my Midwestern neighborhood had better things to do, like making a living, than bitching about … whatever. Sheesh, you guys: get a life! Asking Mama-Papa City of Davis to hold your hand and make it all better, bunch of narcissists you are. Suck it up, grow up!

  176. Anonymous

    Dear Darnell Watson,
    You ask: “Maybe the people in the Midwest town you grew-up in had such vehicles.”
    Well, back there, it was just garbage trucks which came around, the garbagemen hanging off the rear of the trucks, jumping down, raking up the piles of leaves left over from our curbside bonfires into the gaping maws of their garbage trucks. Or there’d be a bunch of neighbors going in on the rental of a trailer to haul the compost-to-be, along with whatever could be loaded in the back of the station wagons.
    No big deal. People, grownups, in my Midwestern neighborhood had better things to do, like making a living, than bitching about … whatever. Sheesh, you guys: get a life! Asking Mama-Papa City of Davis to hold your hand and make it all better, bunch of narcissists you are. Suck it up, grow up!

  177. Anonymous

    David –

    Thank you for posting the picture of what a Green Waste Container looks like.

    I think you were able to dispel the myth that seniors or others will not be able to put the trimmings in the container.

    Secondly, thank you for this article that gave us much lively discussion. Who knew that green waste was such a hot topic in Davis.

    As you stated and one of your readers (Sah) stated, others in the city containerize their trimmings and there is not a problem. If anything, it helps the neighborhood to look cleaner and better without having clippings tossed to the side of the street awaiting to be picked up.

    What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container? It makes absolutely no sense. If they need another container because they have too much rubbish then they can request another one. Simple, isn’t it.

    It’s not just the cyclists that are benefiting from this…we are all benefiting from this because our streets will be cleaner and safer without all of this obstruction.

    This is a great decision and I hope it goes citywide.

    P.S. I agree with the person who posted and said that the water rates are an even bigger issue. We haven’t seen the worst of it yet. $200 to $300 more is a lot!

  178. Anonymous

    David –

    Thank you for posting the picture of what a Green Waste Container looks like.

    I think you were able to dispel the myth that seniors or others will not be able to put the trimmings in the container.

    Secondly, thank you for this article that gave us much lively discussion. Who knew that green waste was such a hot topic in Davis.

    As you stated and one of your readers (Sah) stated, others in the city containerize their trimmings and there is not a problem. If anything, it helps the neighborhood to look cleaner and better without having clippings tossed to the side of the street awaiting to be picked up.

    What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container? It makes absolutely no sense. If they need another container because they have too much rubbish then they can request another one. Simple, isn’t it.

    It’s not just the cyclists that are benefiting from this…we are all benefiting from this because our streets will be cleaner and safer without all of this obstruction.

    This is a great decision and I hope it goes citywide.

    P.S. I agree with the person who posted and said that the water rates are an even bigger issue. We haven’t seen the worst of it yet. $200 to $300 more is a lot!

  179. Anonymous

    David –

    Thank you for posting the picture of what a Green Waste Container looks like.

    I think you were able to dispel the myth that seniors or others will not be able to put the trimmings in the container.

    Secondly, thank you for this article that gave us much lively discussion. Who knew that green waste was such a hot topic in Davis.

    As you stated and one of your readers (Sah) stated, others in the city containerize their trimmings and there is not a problem. If anything, it helps the neighborhood to look cleaner and better without having clippings tossed to the side of the street awaiting to be picked up.

    What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container? It makes absolutely no sense. If they need another container because they have too much rubbish then they can request another one. Simple, isn’t it.

    It’s not just the cyclists that are benefiting from this…we are all benefiting from this because our streets will be cleaner and safer without all of this obstruction.

    This is a great decision and I hope it goes citywide.

    P.S. I agree with the person who posted and said that the water rates are an even bigger issue. We haven’t seen the worst of it yet. $200 to $300 more is a lot!

  180. Anonymous

    David –

    Thank you for posting the picture of what a Green Waste Container looks like.

    I think you were able to dispel the myth that seniors or others will not be able to put the trimmings in the container.

    Secondly, thank you for this article that gave us much lively discussion. Who knew that green waste was such a hot topic in Davis.

    As you stated and one of your readers (Sah) stated, others in the city containerize their trimmings and there is not a problem. If anything, it helps the neighborhood to look cleaner and better without having clippings tossed to the side of the street awaiting to be picked up.

    What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container? It makes absolutely no sense. If they need another container because they have too much rubbish then they can request another one. Simple, isn’t it.

    It’s not just the cyclists that are benefiting from this…we are all benefiting from this because our streets will be cleaner and safer without all of this obstruction.

    This is a great decision and I hope it goes citywide.

    P.S. I agree with the person who posted and said that the water rates are an even bigger issue. We haven’t seen the worst of it yet. $200 to $300 more is a lot!

  181. don shor

    “…then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    Because most woody prunings are significantly larger than the container. Landscapers and gardeners already have to trim them down to make the 5′ x 5′ piles that DWR requires. It would take at least twice as much labor to fit them into these tote containers, and the average yard cleanup would fill several containers.

  182. don shor

    “…then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    Because most woody prunings are significantly larger than the container. Landscapers and gardeners already have to trim them down to make the 5′ x 5′ piles that DWR requires. It would take at least twice as much labor to fit them into these tote containers, and the average yard cleanup would fill several containers.

  183. don shor

    “…then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    Because most woody prunings are significantly larger than the container. Landscapers and gardeners already have to trim them down to make the 5′ x 5′ piles that DWR requires. It would take at least twice as much labor to fit them into these tote containers, and the average yard cleanup would fill several containers.

  184. don shor

    “…then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    Because most woody prunings are significantly larger than the container. Landscapers and gardeners already have to trim them down to make the 5′ x 5′ piles that DWR requires. It would take at least twice as much labor to fit them into these tote containers, and the average yard cleanup would fill several containers.

  185. Anonymous

    Are the green waste containers pictured actually no larger than our current trash containers? They are clearly too small. I do not have space to have 4-5 containers(trash,recycle,2-3 green waste). Santa Monica uses containers for green waste that are 50% larger(and probably do not fit through standard Davis fence gates).

  186. Anonymous

    Are the green waste containers pictured actually no larger than our current trash containers? They are clearly too small. I do not have space to have 4-5 containers(trash,recycle,2-3 green waste). Santa Monica uses containers for green waste that are 50% larger(and probably do not fit through standard Davis fence gates).

  187. Anonymous

    Are the green waste containers pictured actually no larger than our current trash containers? They are clearly too small. I do not have space to have 4-5 containers(trash,recycle,2-3 green waste). Santa Monica uses containers for green waste that are 50% larger(and probably do not fit through standard Davis fence gates).

  188. Anonymous

    Are the green waste containers pictured actually no larger than our current trash containers? They are clearly too small. I do not have space to have 4-5 containers(trash,recycle,2-3 green waste). Santa Monica uses containers for green waste that are 50% larger(and probably do not fit through standard Davis fence gates).

  189. Rich Rifkin

    “What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    This question is clearly asked by someone who has never done his own tree trimming and doesn’t understand how much physical labor and time is involved. Don Shor answered this question precisely. I would only add that if we did not have the requirement that the piles be no greater than 5′ x 5′ x 5′, it would save me half of my work. But for a lot of good reasons, we have to have that space limit (though thankfully it is not strictly enforced).

  190. Rich Rifkin

    “What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    This question is clearly asked by someone who has never done his own tree trimming and doesn’t understand how much physical labor and time is involved. Don Shor answered this question precisely. I would only add that if we did not have the requirement that the piles be no greater than 5′ x 5′ x 5′, it would save me half of my work. But for a lot of good reasons, we have to have that space limit (though thankfully it is not strictly enforced).

  191. Rich Rifkin

    “What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    This question is clearly asked by someone who has never done his own tree trimming and doesn’t understand how much physical labor and time is involved. Don Shor answered this question precisely. I would only add that if we did not have the requirement that the piles be no greater than 5′ x 5′ x 5′, it would save me half of my work. But for a lot of good reasons, we have to have that space limit (though thankfully it is not strictly enforced).

  192. Rich Rifkin

    “What I don’t get, is that if someone is going to go through the steps of trimming their trees and bushes, and throw their rubbish to the side of the street then why in the heck can they not just throw in into a container?”

    This question is clearly asked by someone who has never done his own tree trimming and doesn’t understand how much physical labor and time is involved. Don Shor answered this question precisely. I would only add that if we did not have the requirement that the piles be no greater than 5′ x 5′ x 5′, it would save me half of my work. But for a lot of good reasons, we have to have that space limit (though thankfully it is not strictly enforced).

  193. Darnell Watson

    Mid-Westerner –
    The argument here is between containerized or non-containerized green waste in Davis. What people did in the Midwest is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Getting thousands of people to get together to take green waste to a communal dump site is not going to happen. It just doesn’t make sense to do that on any level. You don’t give the people here enough credit, it has nothing to do with laziness or narcissism.

    There is curb-side pickup today. Are you against that? With your theory, why don’t we cart all waste and garbage to the dump and get rid of all sanitation services provided by the evil government from tax payer’s money.

  194. Darnell Watson

    Mid-Westerner –
    The argument here is between containerized or non-containerized green waste in Davis. What people did in the Midwest is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Getting thousands of people to get together to take green waste to a communal dump site is not going to happen. It just doesn’t make sense to do that on any level. You don’t give the people here enough credit, it has nothing to do with laziness or narcissism.

    There is curb-side pickup today. Are you against that? With your theory, why don’t we cart all waste and garbage to the dump and get rid of all sanitation services provided by the evil government from tax payer’s money.

  195. Darnell Watson

    Mid-Westerner –
    The argument here is between containerized or non-containerized green waste in Davis. What people did in the Midwest is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Getting thousands of people to get together to take green waste to a communal dump site is not going to happen. It just doesn’t make sense to do that on any level. You don’t give the people here enough credit, it has nothing to do with laziness or narcissism.

    There is curb-side pickup today. Are you against that? With your theory, why don’t we cart all waste and garbage to the dump and get rid of all sanitation services provided by the evil government from tax payer’s money.

  196. Darnell Watson

    Mid-Westerner –
    The argument here is between containerized or non-containerized green waste in Davis. What people did in the Midwest is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Getting thousands of people to get together to take green waste to a communal dump site is not going to happen. It just doesn’t make sense to do that on any level. You don’t give the people here enough credit, it has nothing to do with laziness or narcissism.

    There is curb-side pickup today. Are you against that? With your theory, why don’t we cart all waste and garbage to the dump and get rid of all sanitation services provided by the evil government from tax payer’s money.

  197. View From The Darkside

    I agree with an anonymous about how people do not need their city government to all but wipe their butts.. where does this end? we need a trucks for garbage, recycling, clippings? what’s next?

    Second, I’m a little suprised with DPD, who doesn’t seem to think much cost would come of this proposal

    you’ll have to pay for the containers, which may be a small amount, but then you’ll have to pay $50,000 or more for new specialized “clippings” trucks. much else can be done with $50,000. am I missing something?

    I also take issue WU Ming’s comments. “if you don’t like to pay more, than leave” sounds kind of elitist to me.

  198. View From The Darkside

    I agree with an anonymous about how people do not need their city government to all but wipe their butts.. where does this end? we need a trucks for garbage, recycling, clippings? what’s next?

    Second, I’m a little suprised with DPD, who doesn’t seem to think much cost would come of this proposal

    you’ll have to pay for the containers, which may be a small amount, but then you’ll have to pay $50,000 or more for new specialized “clippings” trucks. much else can be done with $50,000. am I missing something?

    I also take issue WU Ming’s comments. “if you don’t like to pay more, than leave” sounds kind of elitist to me.

  199. View From The Darkside

    I agree with an anonymous about how people do not need their city government to all but wipe their butts.. where does this end? we need a trucks for garbage, recycling, clippings? what’s next?

    Second, I’m a little suprised with DPD, who doesn’t seem to think much cost would come of this proposal

    you’ll have to pay for the containers, which may be a small amount, but then you’ll have to pay $50,000 or more for new specialized “clippings” trucks. much else can be done with $50,000. am I missing something?

    I also take issue WU Ming’s comments. “if you don’t like to pay more, than leave” sounds kind of elitist to me.

  200. View From The Darkside

    I agree with an anonymous about how people do not need their city government to all but wipe their butts.. where does this end? we need a trucks for garbage, recycling, clippings? what’s next?

    Second, I’m a little suprised with DPD, who doesn’t seem to think much cost would come of this proposal

    you’ll have to pay for the containers, which may be a small amount, but then you’ll have to pay $50,000 or more for new specialized “clippings” trucks. much else can be done with $50,000. am I missing something?

    I also take issue WU Ming’s comments. “if you don’t like to pay more, than leave” sounds kind of elitist to me.

  201. Doug Paul Davis

    Well actually I had a conversation with a former mayor of a city going to containerization and he suggested that the costs will be greatly reduced as a result of containerization rather than the other way around. In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger. I suspect that that also is indicative of reduced costs.

    Finally and I will have more on this in the future, the issue of wastewater is one of the big factors in the move as well, I’ve had several emails that have pointed this out to me in various ways.

  202. Doug Paul Davis

    Well actually I had a conversation with a former mayor of a city going to containerization and he suggested that the costs will be greatly reduced as a result of containerization rather than the other way around. In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger. I suspect that that also is indicative of reduced costs.

    Finally and I will have more on this in the future, the issue of wastewater is one of the big factors in the move as well, I’ve had several emails that have pointed this out to me in various ways.

  203. Doug Paul Davis

    Well actually I had a conversation with a former mayor of a city going to containerization and he suggested that the costs will be greatly reduced as a result of containerization rather than the other way around. In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger. I suspect that that also is indicative of reduced costs.

    Finally and I will have more on this in the future, the issue of wastewater is one of the big factors in the move as well, I’ve had several emails that have pointed this out to me in various ways.

  204. Doug Paul Davis

    Well actually I had a conversation with a former mayor of a city going to containerization and he suggested that the costs will be greatly reduced as a result of containerization rather than the other way around. In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger. I suspect that that also is indicative of reduced costs.

    Finally and I will have more on this in the future, the issue of wastewater is one of the big factors in the move as well, I’ve had several emails that have pointed this out to me in various ways.

  205. Anonymous

    This has the makings of a special-interest “perfect storm”.
    DWR gets to reduce its operational costs which we will most likely never see in our bills, major arborists increase their business as homeowner-maintained trees become a thing of the past and well-organized bicycle groups press for their own desires.

  206. Anonymous

    This has the makings of a special-interest “perfect storm”.
    DWR gets to reduce its operational costs which we will most likely never see in our bills, major arborists increase their business as homeowner-maintained trees become a thing of the past and well-organized bicycle groups press for their own desires.

  207. Anonymous

    This has the makings of a special-interest “perfect storm”.
    DWR gets to reduce its operational costs which we will most likely never see in our bills, major arborists increase their business as homeowner-maintained trees become a thing of the past and well-organized bicycle groups press for their own desires.

  208. Anonymous

    This has the makings of a special-interest “perfect storm”.
    DWR gets to reduce its operational costs which we will most likely never see in our bills, major arborists increase their business as homeowner-maintained trees become a thing of the past and well-organized bicycle groups press for their own desires.

  209. davisite

    DPD said:
    In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger.

    Population is not the critical factor in this discussion but rather the urban forest,both city and private, that the community enjoys. Aren’t UCD students counted in Davis’ population figures? Their
    smaller contribution to the Davis population’s green waste must also be considered in using population numbers.

  210. davisite

    DPD said:
    In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger.

    Population is not the critical factor in this discussion but rather the urban forest,both city and private, that the community enjoys. Aren’t UCD students counted in Davis’ population figures? Their
    smaller contribution to the Davis population’s green waste must also be considered in using population numbers.

  211. davisite

    DPD said:
    In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger.

    Population is not the critical factor in this discussion but rather the urban forest,both city and private, that the community enjoys. Aren’t UCD students counted in Davis’ population figures? Their
    smaller contribution to the Davis population’s green waste must also be considered in using population numbers.

  212. davisite

    DPD said:
    In fact, Davis is currently the only city in Northern California that doesn’t have some sort of program of containerization among cities of 50K or larger.

    Population is not the critical factor in this discussion but rather the urban forest,both city and private, that the community enjoys. Aren’t UCD students counted in Davis’ population figures? Their
    smaller contribution to the Davis population’s green waste must also be considered in using population numbers.

  213. For Petes Sake

    I cannot believe anyone would buy a story that containerization is somehow not going to cost taxpayers. It sounds a lot like the argument “new city stadiums will generate all sorts of additional business and pay for itself” – which almost always results in huge costs to any city that is foolish enough to buy into building a new stadium.

    New containers cost money. New trucks to pick up new containers cost money. Drivers to drive the new trucks to pick up the new containers cost money. All of this must be supported by considerable amounts of city staff time and paperwork Trust me, it will cost the taxpayer plenty.

    What is wrong with putting leaves and grass in huge black plastic bags? Branches, etc in a 5x5x5 pile? If one pile/one big plastic bag per week per house is allowed, just as one container would be, then we wouldn’t be having this silly discussion that is going to cost us a small fortune.

    The system I have just suggested is cheap, doesn’t cost anyone much of anything, is just as safe as containerization for bikes, and will not allow crud into the drainage system. Why can’t a simple solution such as this, which worked for many years, be used again? Because some friend of a friend won’t be feeding at the public trough making money out of it – that’s why.

    Furthermore, if you think Davis taxes and fees are not already through the roof and causing people to leave town, you are dreaming. Why do you think Davis is shrinking in size right now? School enrollment is down. People cannot afford all these little niceties, where everyone has a nice big brown container for trash, another special one for recyclables, a fancy truck to dispose of trash, another type of truck to pick up yard debris, etc.

    When the water/sewer rate increases hit, you will be singing a different tune!

  214. For Petes Sake

    I cannot believe anyone would buy a story that containerization is somehow not going to cost taxpayers. It sounds a lot like the argument “new city stadiums will generate all sorts of additional business and pay for itself” – which almost always results in huge costs to any city that is foolish enough to buy into building a new stadium.

    New containers cost money. New trucks to pick up new containers cost money. Drivers to drive the new trucks to pick up the new containers cost money. All of this must be supported by considerable amounts of city staff time and paperwork Trust me, it will cost the taxpayer plenty.

    What is wrong with putting leaves and grass in huge black plastic bags? Branches, etc in a 5x5x5 pile? If one pile/one big plastic bag per week per house is allowed, just as one container would be, then we wouldn’t be having this silly discussion that is going to cost us a small fortune.

    The system I have just suggested is cheap, doesn’t cost anyone much of anything, is just as safe as containerization for bikes, and will not allow crud into the drainage system. Why can’t a simple solution such as this, which worked for many years, be used again? Because some friend of a friend won’t be feeding at the public trough making money out of it – that’s why.

    Furthermore, if you think Davis taxes and fees are not already through the roof and causing people to leave town, you are dreaming. Why do you think Davis is shrinking in size right now? School enrollment is down. People cannot afford all these little niceties, where everyone has a nice big brown container for trash, another special one for recyclables, a fancy truck to dispose of trash, another type of truck to pick up yard debris, etc.

    When the water/sewer rate increases hit, you will be singing a different tune!

  215. For Petes Sake

    I cannot believe anyone would buy a story that containerization is somehow not going to cost taxpayers. It sounds a lot like the argument “new city stadiums will generate all sorts of additional business and pay for itself” – which almost always results in huge costs to any city that is foolish enough to buy into building a new stadium.

    New containers cost money. New trucks to pick up new containers cost money. Drivers to drive the new trucks to pick up the new containers cost money. All of this must be supported by considerable amounts of city staff time and paperwork Trust me, it will cost the taxpayer plenty.

    What is wrong with putting leaves and grass in huge black plastic bags? Branches, etc in a 5x5x5 pile? If one pile/one big plastic bag per week per house is allowed, just as one container would be, then we wouldn’t be having this silly discussion that is going to cost us a small fortune.

    The system I have just suggested is cheap, doesn’t cost anyone much of anything, is just as safe as containerization for bikes, and will not allow crud into the drainage system. Why can’t a simple solution such as this, which worked for many years, be used again? Because some friend of a friend won’t be feeding at the public trough making money out of it – that’s why.

    Furthermore, if you think Davis taxes and fees are not already through the roof and causing people to leave town, you are dreaming. Why do you think Davis is shrinking in size right now? School enrollment is down. People cannot afford all these little niceties, where everyone has a nice big brown container for trash, another special one for recyclables, a fancy truck to dispose of trash, another type of truck to pick up yard debris, etc.

    When the water/sewer rate increases hit, you will be singing a different tune!

  216. For Petes Sake

    I cannot believe anyone would buy a story that containerization is somehow not going to cost taxpayers. It sounds a lot like the argument “new city stadiums will generate all sorts of additional business and pay for itself” – which almost always results in huge costs to any city that is foolish enough to buy into building a new stadium.

    New containers cost money. New trucks to pick up new containers cost money. Drivers to drive the new trucks to pick up the new containers cost money. All of this must be supported by considerable amounts of city staff time and paperwork Trust me, it will cost the taxpayer plenty.

    What is wrong with putting leaves and grass in huge black plastic bags? Branches, etc in a 5x5x5 pile? If one pile/one big plastic bag per week per house is allowed, just as one container would be, then we wouldn’t be having this silly discussion that is going to cost us a small fortune.

    The system I have just suggested is cheap, doesn’t cost anyone much of anything, is just as safe as containerization for bikes, and will not allow crud into the drainage system. Why can’t a simple solution such as this, which worked for many years, be used again? Because some friend of a friend won’t be feeding at the public trough making money out of it – that’s why.

    Furthermore, if you think Davis taxes and fees are not already through the roof and causing people to leave town, you are dreaming. Why do you think Davis is shrinking in size right now? School enrollment is down. People cannot afford all these little niceties, where everyone has a nice big brown container for trash, another special one for recyclables, a fancy truck to dispose of trash, another type of truck to pick up yard debris, etc.

    When the water/sewer rate increases hit, you will be singing a different tune!

  217. 無名 - wu ming

    ucd students are counted if they live off campus within city limits, but are not counted when they live on campus or in other cities and commute into class. i’ve often wonder how much of the 30,000 students overlapped with the city population numbers, but have never found a way to sort the two numbers out.

    as forview from the darkside’s response, i was only pointing out that noone cares when renters are pushed out of town because of higher cosst, so it’s hard to have much sympathy for the generally more affluent homeowners when their costs go up, to be honest.

    i also don’t quite see how providing city services gets equated with a nanny state. people seem to be fine with their public police department, public firefighters and public teachers; why should public removal yard clippings be suddenly a bridge too far?

    the larger problem with city finances IMO is that the state government has been increasingly shorting local government the money it has been due (as a way of balancing the state budget without overtly raising taxes), combined with the structural property tax shortfall due to prop. 13.

    until we address those two issues, the city of davis and every other similar size city in california will be wracking their brains trying to find some way of providing services without taxing the electorate past the point where they’re willing to pay (which is far lower than what they’re able to pay, by and large, because a generation of californians has assumed that they can have quality government on the cheap – or by borrowing the money and billing their children – which doesn’t work in the long run).

    that’s the underlying problem, not some green waste containerization policy, regardless of whether said policy ends up being useful or not.

  218. 無名 - wu ming

    ucd students are counted if they live off campus within city limits, but are not counted when they live on campus or in other cities and commute into class. i’ve often wonder how much of the 30,000 students overlapped with the city population numbers, but have never found a way to sort the two numbers out.

    as forview from the darkside’s response, i was only pointing out that noone cares when renters are pushed out of town because of higher cosst, so it’s hard to have much sympathy for the generally more affluent homeowners when their costs go up, to be honest.

    i also don’t quite see how providing city services gets equated with a nanny state. people seem to be fine with their public police department, public firefighters and public teachers; why should public removal yard clippings be suddenly a bridge too far?

    the larger problem with city finances IMO is that the state government has been increasingly shorting local government the money it has been due (as a way of balancing the state budget without overtly raising taxes), combined with the structural property tax shortfall due to prop. 13.

    until we address those two issues, the city of davis and every other similar size city in california will be wracking their brains trying to find some way of providing services without taxing the electorate past the point where they’re willing to pay (which is far lower than what they’re able to pay, by and large, because a generation of californians has assumed that they can have quality government on the cheap – or by borrowing the money and billing their children – which doesn’t work in the long run).

    that’s the underlying problem, not some green waste containerization policy, regardless of whether said policy ends up being useful or not.

  219. 無名 - wu ming

    ucd students are counted if they live off campus within city limits, but are not counted when they live on campus or in other cities and commute into class. i’ve often wonder how much of the 30,000 students overlapped with the city population numbers, but have never found a way to sort the two numbers out.

    as forview from the darkside’s response, i was only pointing out that noone cares when renters are pushed out of town because of higher cosst, so it’s hard to have much sympathy for the generally more affluent homeowners when their costs go up, to be honest.

    i also don’t quite see how providing city services gets equated with a nanny state. people seem to be fine with their public police department, public firefighters and public teachers; why should public removal yard clippings be suddenly a bridge too far?

    the larger problem with city finances IMO is that the state government has been increasingly shorting local government the money it has been due (as a way of balancing the state budget without overtly raising taxes), combined with the structural property tax shortfall due to prop. 13.

    until we address those two issues, the city of davis and every other similar size city in california will be wracking their brains trying to find some way of providing services without taxing the electorate past the point where they’re willing to pay (which is far lower than what they’re able to pay, by and large, because a generation of californians has assumed that they can have quality government on the cheap – or by borrowing the money and billing their children – which doesn’t work in the long run).

    that’s the underlying problem, not some green waste containerization policy, regardless of whether said policy ends up being useful or not.

  220. 無名 - wu ming

    ucd students are counted if they live off campus within city limits, but are not counted when they live on campus or in other cities and commute into class. i’ve often wonder how much of the 30,000 students overlapped with the city population numbers, but have never found a way to sort the two numbers out.

    as forview from the darkside’s response, i was only pointing out that noone cares when renters are pushed out of town because of higher cosst, so it’s hard to have much sympathy for the generally more affluent homeowners when their costs go up, to be honest.

    i also don’t quite see how providing city services gets equated with a nanny state. people seem to be fine with their public police department, public firefighters and public teachers; why should public removal yard clippings be suddenly a bridge too far?

    the larger problem with city finances IMO is that the state government has been increasingly shorting local government the money it has been due (as a way of balancing the state budget without overtly raising taxes), combined with the structural property tax shortfall due to prop. 13.

    until we address those two issues, the city of davis and every other similar size city in california will be wracking their brains trying to find some way of providing services without taxing the electorate past the point where they’re willing to pay (which is far lower than what they’re able to pay, by and large, because a generation of californians has assumed that they can have quality government on the cheap – or by borrowing the money and billing their children – which doesn’t work in the long run).

    that’s the underlying problem, not some green waste containerization policy, regardless of whether said policy ends up being useful or not.

  221. don shor

    Re: student population.
    From the General Catalog:

    “Some 4,500 undergraduate students live on campus each year, including about 90 percent of freshman students.”

  222. don shor

    Re: student population.
    From the General Catalog:

    “Some 4,500 undergraduate students live on campus each year, including about 90 percent of freshman students.”

  223. don shor

    Re: student population.
    From the General Catalog:

    “Some 4,500 undergraduate students live on campus each year, including about 90 percent of freshman students.”

  224. don shor

    Re: student population.
    From the General Catalog:

    “Some 4,500 undergraduate students live on campus each year, including about 90 percent of freshman students.”

  225. davisite

    Wu-Ming minus Don Shor = 25,000 students counted in the Davis population… most living in newer multiplexes with minimum landscaping or houses where, as we are all well aware, landscaping upkeep that would generate green waste is not a significant activity.

  226. davisite

    Wu-Ming minus Don Shor = 25,000 students counted in the Davis population… most living in newer multiplexes with minimum landscaping or houses where, as we are all well aware, landscaping upkeep that would generate green waste is not a significant activity.

  227. davisite

    Wu-Ming minus Don Shor = 25,000 students counted in the Davis population… most living in newer multiplexes with minimum landscaping or houses where, as we are all well aware, landscaping upkeep that would generate green waste is not a significant activity.

  228. davisite

    Wu-Ming minus Don Shor = 25,000 students counted in the Davis population… most living in newer multiplexes with minimum landscaping or houses where, as we are all well aware, landscaping upkeep that would generate green waste is not a significant activity.

  229. 無名 - wu ming

    not necessarily, davisite. many of those students live outside of davis because of the lower rents and looser rental markets of woodland, west sac, natomas or sacramento (not as sure about winters or dixon), as well as a small bay area contingent (although that’s more grad students or professors, from what i know).

    so that 25,000 ends up being smaller, although how much smaller is hard to say.

  230. 無名 - wu ming

    not necessarily, davisite. many of those students live outside of davis because of the lower rents and looser rental markets of woodland, west sac, natomas or sacramento (not as sure about winters or dixon), as well as a small bay area contingent (although that’s more grad students or professors, from what i know).

    so that 25,000 ends up being smaller, although how much smaller is hard to say.

  231. 無名 - wu ming

    not necessarily, davisite. many of those students live outside of davis because of the lower rents and looser rental markets of woodland, west sac, natomas or sacramento (not as sure about winters or dixon), as well as a small bay area contingent (although that’s more grad students or professors, from what i know).

    so that 25,000 ends up being smaller, although how much smaller is hard to say.

  232. 無名 - wu ming

    not necessarily, davisite. many of those students live outside of davis because of the lower rents and looser rental markets of woodland, west sac, natomas or sacramento (not as sure about winters or dixon), as well as a small bay area contingent (although that’s more grad students or professors, from what i know).

    so that 25,000 ends up being smaller, although how much smaller is hard to say.

  233. long time biker

    i’ve been a consistent every-day bike rider in Davis for 14 years. green waste really isn’t that big a problem i can attest.

    the biggest problem is cars parked in the diagonal fashion downtown. for a big pickup you have to swerve way out in the street. plus it is hard for drivers to see you when they are backing out.

    trust me on this- i’ve been riding for years. green waste is minor compared to this problem.

    now, biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers, as much as i hate the idea of another big container.

  234. long time biker

    i’ve been a consistent every-day bike rider in Davis for 14 years. green waste really isn’t that big a problem i can attest.

    the biggest problem is cars parked in the diagonal fashion downtown. for a big pickup you have to swerve way out in the street. plus it is hard for drivers to see you when they are backing out.

    trust me on this- i’ve been riding for years. green waste is minor compared to this problem.

    now, biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers, as much as i hate the idea of another big container.

  235. long time biker

    i’ve been a consistent every-day bike rider in Davis for 14 years. green waste really isn’t that big a problem i can attest.

    the biggest problem is cars parked in the diagonal fashion downtown. for a big pickup you have to swerve way out in the street. plus it is hard for drivers to see you when they are backing out.

    trust me on this- i’ve been riding for years. green waste is minor compared to this problem.

    now, biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers, as much as i hate the idea of another big container.

  236. long time biker

    i’ve been a consistent every-day bike rider in Davis for 14 years. green waste really isn’t that big a problem i can attest.

    the biggest problem is cars parked in the diagonal fashion downtown. for a big pickup you have to swerve way out in the street. plus it is hard for drivers to see you when they are backing out.

    trust me on this- i’ve been riding for years. green waste is minor compared to this problem.

    now, biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers, as much as i hate the idea of another big container.

  237. davisite

    “…biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers,”

    As has already been noted, We get little or no rain runoff into the storm drains in Davis during the major growing seasons and the “claw” leaf pick-up during the fall months was to continue as before..

  238. davisite

    “…biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers,”

    As has already been noted, We get little or no rain runoff into the storm drains in Davis during the major growing seasons and the “claw” leaf pick-up during the fall months was to continue as before..

  239. davisite

    “…biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers,”

    As has already been noted, We get little or no rain runoff into the storm drains in Davis during the major growing seasons and the “claw” leaf pick-up during the fall months was to continue as before..

  240. davisite

    “…biking aside, i think the wastewater issue / storm drain runoff is reason enough to use the containers,”

    As has already been noted, We get little or no rain runoff into the storm drains in Davis during the major growing seasons and the “claw” leaf pick-up during the fall months was to continue as before..

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