Commentary: Revisiting Hate Crime Attack

Just prior to the break, we covered a pair of hate crime incidents that occurred in the city of Davis. Now that the holidays are over, it is imperative that we revisit these incidents.

The first set of incidents occurred during the weekend of December 15. Two homes, approximately a block apart were attacked with racially charged graffiti. The official explanation by the police was this was a high school friendship situation that got out of control.

“‘This is high school tensions that got way out of hand,’ [Sgt. Scott] Smith said today. ‘Now these kids are looking at significant charges because they chose to resolve their friendship issues in the way that they did.’ “

But if that is the case, this remains just as troubling to many in this community. It is troubling if high school students are resorting to racial epithets to resolve their differences. Where do these students get this type of racial animosity? Who is teaching it to them? In other words, in my opinion and the opinion of others, even if an accurate description, the incident remains troubling and something that needs to be addressed by the school and also the community.

This is not the end of the story. We are equally concerned by the relative lack of coverage the incident received. Buried in a briefly on A-3, a second article appeared on A-4 of the Davis Enterprise.

As one Vanguard reader put it, this was not a valid complaint at all. The psuedononymous reader wrote:

“The Enterprise printed the story where it should be printed, and given its comparatively high readership level, thereby ensuring that many, nany (sic) more people in Davis are aware of the incident than any Vanguard story will.”

However, they miss the point here. The highest readership on a paper is front page. Some people will read the brieflies, but those numbers are considerably lower than those who merely see the front page stories. The key question is how important is a hate crimes attack in Davis to the public? Is this something that will generate interest and controversy? The answer to me is yes.

Jann Murray-Garcia and Jonathan London used their periodic Davis Enterprise column to address this issue. In fact, the column was a last second re-write to address an issue they saw as paramount to the community. They used a portion of their space to take the unusual step of criticizing the paper that provides them with space.

I (Jann) shivered when a Davis High School student asked me if I knew anything about the hate crime that occurred in Davis on Saturday, Dec. 16. Despite reading that Sunday’s paper, I had missed the mention of this incident on Page A3 in a “Briefly” section of The Davis Enterprise.

That mention of the hate crime showed up at all in The Enterprise is progress. To have the Davis Police Department investigate this as a hate crime, report it to our local newspaper and have it in the paper within 24 hours is indeed progress. (Kudos to the DPD!)

None of that happened five years ago with the spray painting of the N-word on a cul-de-sac in West Davis, outside the home of a young African American couple. Back then, it took independent community action from Davis Blacks for Effective Community Action and others to push the police and The Enterprise to cover the story and investigate the event as a hate crime.

This most recent hate crime made it on to Page A3 in The Enterprise’s “Briefly” section (Dec. 16). The slightly longer follow-up report of the hate crime announced the arrest of a 17-year-old and the impending arrest of an 18-year-old, both Davis High students. It appeared on Page A4 of Tuesday’s Enterprise.

At the risk of breaking professional decorum, Jonathan and I must publicly state that we need better than that from our local newspaper.

Without the substantial reporting and historical context of hate crimes in Davis, our public memory, our community conscience is compromised. Our ability to parent and teach and police, our ability to remember, is compromised.

The article goes on to demonstrate the recent history of hate crimes in Davis and why they need more coverage. For me this is a very simple issue that requires a very complex solution. The hate crime is an attack upon an entire segment of a community. When they write “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” on one person’s home, they are not just vandalizing someone’s property, they are not merely attacking that individual, they are telling an entire segment of the community that they are second class citizens and that they should live in fear.

Perhaps this is an issue where the youth need to lead us, like Amanda McCaffrey, a junior at Davis High School did in a brilliant letter to the editor.

I am a junior at Davis Senior High School, and am taking Race and Social Justice in U.S. History. Through the course of our studies, our curriculum has proved to us that social change and improvement is impossible without acknowledgment of our society’s problems.

Therefore, I was very distressed to see the alarmingly brief article in the Dec. 16 Enterprise about our community’s most recent hate crime. I wonder how our community can ever hope to make appreciable progress in our tolerance level if we are not made fully aware of the very issues that make it impossible.

Although the community may prefer to remain in blissful ignorance with regards to local intolerance, it is essential that we be made to confront these issues that are wounding our society beyond repair. I do not mean to demand that our newspaper publish spiteful accounts or call our neighbors to arms; I merely suggest that we give those who have been hurt by prejudiced and ignorant acts the dignity of recognizing that pain.

Do you we not want to set better examples for our youth? Do we not want to give them hope that the future will not bring a repetition of past acts of hatred?

In short, should we not as this community come together to address the issue of hate crimes, to attack these heinous and debilitating attacks at their roots?

After the original article, someone asked what more I wanted to see–jail time? Absolutely not. Jail time for the perpetrators does not even begin to address the problem. The first thing I want to see is community awareness. I want this community to understand that there is still a problem. Even if it is only a small and ignorant minority for whom it is a problem for, we need awareness. We do not get awareness when we have an issue that is buried in the middle of the paper just as people are going into their holiday celebration mode.

Second, this is an opportunity. We have a new police chief. This is a freebie for him. This is where the police have an opportunity to reach out to a community that often feels separate and show them that the police care and will be vigilant in attacking incidents of hate crimes. The police can take the lead here and help to raise community awareness.

Unfortunately as critics are undoubtedly quick to point out, none of these are solutions to the problem. Frankly if I knew more education was the answer, if I knew a more vigilant police force was the answer, if I knew more jail time was the answer, if I knew certain programs were the answer, the problem would have been solved long ago. Obvious there is no magic bullet here. No simple answer. No fix-all solution.

But one thing I know is not the answer is burying out head in the sand and ignoring it because it is ugly and unseemly and it makes us feel uncomfortable and it makes us perhaps question ourselves (if we are being honest) in ways that magnify that discomfort. But we have to do it, because we cannot afford to allow another generation to grow up believing that they can express their anger, frustration, or resolve their problems by resorting to racial epithets. We just cannot do that anymore. These things tend to fester unless dealt with in an appropriate manner.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

Related posts

156 Comments

  1. Anonymous

    An additional perspective to be considered: Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence. Overstating verbal exchanges as “hate crimes” has the potential of diverting energy and attention from the really hard work. It’s what is in one’s heart that gives color and meaning to these verbal exchanges.

  2. Anonymous

    An additional perspective to be considered: Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence. Overstating verbal exchanges as “hate crimes” has the potential of diverting energy and attention from the really hard work. It’s what is in one’s heart that gives color and meaning to these verbal exchanges.

  3. Anonymous

    An additional perspective to be considered: Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence. Overstating verbal exchanges as “hate crimes” has the potential of diverting energy and attention from the really hard work. It’s what is in one’s heart that gives color and meaning to these verbal exchanges.

  4. Anonymous

    An additional perspective to be considered: Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence. Overstating verbal exchanges as “hate crimes” has the potential of diverting energy and attention from the really hard work. It’s what is in one’s heart that gives color and meaning to these verbal exchanges.

  5. Rich Rifkin

    “Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence.”

    I could be wrong, but I don’t buy this, at least as far as “racial epithets” goes. It seems to me when kids pull out the “kill the n*****s” terminology, it’s not just a sign of anger. It’s just racism. And most of the time, I think kids learn that animus in their homes.

  6. Rich Rifkin

    “Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence.”

    I could be wrong, but I don’t buy this, at least as far as “racial epithets” goes. It seems to me when kids pull out the “kill the n*****s” terminology, it’s not just a sign of anger. It’s just racism. And most of the time, I think kids learn that animus in their homes.

  7. Rich Rifkin

    “Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence.”

    I could be wrong, but I don’t buy this, at least as far as “racial epithets” goes. It seems to me when kids pull out the “kill the n*****s” terminology, it’s not just a sign of anger. It’s just racism. And most of the time, I think kids learn that animus in their homes.

  8. Rich Rifkin

    “Verbal epithets,i.e. racial ,your mother….,SOB, etc. are commonly explosive releases of anger/tension in lieu of physical violence.”

    I could be wrong, but I don’t buy this, at least as far as “racial epithets” goes. It seems to me when kids pull out the “kill the n*****s” terminology, it’s not just a sign of anger. It’s just racism. And most of the time, I think kids learn that animus in their homes.

  9. Anonymous

    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

  10. Anonymous

    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

  11. Anonymous

    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

  12. Anonymous

    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

  13. don shor

    “…we cannot afford to allow another generation to grow up believing that they can express their anger, frustration, or resolve their problems by resorting to racial epithets.”
    So, you want teenagers to stop doing outrageous things? Good luck. The more outraged people are in response, the more likely teenagers are to do those things in the future in order to cause outrage.

    What makes people think kids learn these language choices at home or at school? Our culture is filled with use of the N word, with vulgar terminology, and not the least of it in rap and hip-hop music. Those didn’t spring from the Euro-American community. I can’t tell you how many times I would just reach over and turn off rap music in the car when my kids were listening to it. I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag. As a parent, pretty much all I can do is express my disgust — for what that is worth to any teenager — and set boundaries when I am around those things.

    When kids lash out, in pranks or in angry attacks, they reach for the arsenal they know will get the biggest bang for the buck. Front page coverage in the local paper plays right into that.

  14. don shor

    “…we cannot afford to allow another generation to grow up believing that they can express their anger, frustration, or resolve their problems by resorting to racial epithets.”
    So, you want teenagers to stop doing outrageous things? Good luck. The more outraged people are in response, the more likely teenagers are to do those things in the future in order to cause outrage.

    What makes people think kids learn these language choices at home or at school? Our culture is filled with use of the N word, with vulgar terminology, and not the least of it in rap and hip-hop music. Those didn’t spring from the Euro-American community. I can’t tell you how many times I would just reach over and turn off rap music in the car when my kids were listening to it. I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag. As a parent, pretty much all I can do is express my disgust — for what that is worth to any teenager — and set boundaries when I am around those things.

    When kids lash out, in pranks or in angry attacks, they reach for the arsenal they know will get the biggest bang for the buck. Front page coverage in the local paper plays right into that.

  15. don shor

    “…we cannot afford to allow another generation to grow up believing that they can express their anger, frustration, or resolve their problems by resorting to racial epithets.”
    So, you want teenagers to stop doing outrageous things? Good luck. The more outraged people are in response, the more likely teenagers are to do those things in the future in order to cause outrage.

    What makes people think kids learn these language choices at home or at school? Our culture is filled with use of the N word, with vulgar terminology, and not the least of it in rap and hip-hop music. Those didn’t spring from the Euro-American community. I can’t tell you how many times I would just reach over and turn off rap music in the car when my kids were listening to it. I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag. As a parent, pretty much all I can do is express my disgust — for what that is worth to any teenager — and set boundaries when I am around those things.

    When kids lash out, in pranks or in angry attacks, they reach for the arsenal they know will get the biggest bang for the buck. Front page coverage in the local paper plays right into that.

  16. don shor

    “…we cannot afford to allow another generation to grow up believing that they can express their anger, frustration, or resolve their problems by resorting to racial epithets.”
    So, you want teenagers to stop doing outrageous things? Good luck. The more outraged people are in response, the more likely teenagers are to do those things in the future in order to cause outrage.

    What makes people think kids learn these language choices at home or at school? Our culture is filled with use of the N word, with vulgar terminology, and not the least of it in rap and hip-hop music. Those didn’t spring from the Euro-American community. I can’t tell you how many times I would just reach over and turn off rap music in the car when my kids were listening to it. I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag. As a parent, pretty much all I can do is express my disgust — for what that is worth to any teenager — and set boundaries when I am around those things.

    When kids lash out, in pranks or in angry attacks, they reach for the arsenal they know will get the biggest bang for the buck. Front page coverage in the local paper plays right into that.

  17. Rich Rifkin

    I should add one thing: obviously, kids are influenced in their thinking and speech patterns by their peers. However, the anger expressed toward others for their race or sexual orientation or some other harmless trait, I believe, usually comes from their home lives. I can imagine exceptions, but that, I suppose, is mostly the case.

    As such, if a kid casually says “that’s so gay” to mean something is not cool, he’s likely just imitating the speech patterns of his peer group. However, if a kid lashes out at another child and calls him a “f***ot,” he’s probably got some serious issues in his home.

  18. Rich Rifkin

    I should add one thing: obviously, kids are influenced in their thinking and speech patterns by their peers. However, the anger expressed toward others for their race or sexual orientation or some other harmless trait, I believe, usually comes from their home lives. I can imagine exceptions, but that, I suppose, is mostly the case.

    As such, if a kid casually says “that’s so gay” to mean something is not cool, he’s likely just imitating the speech patterns of his peer group. However, if a kid lashes out at another child and calls him a “f***ot,” he’s probably got some serious issues in his home.

  19. Rich Rifkin

    I should add one thing: obviously, kids are influenced in their thinking and speech patterns by their peers. However, the anger expressed toward others for their race or sexual orientation or some other harmless trait, I believe, usually comes from their home lives. I can imagine exceptions, but that, I suppose, is mostly the case.

    As such, if a kid casually says “that’s so gay” to mean something is not cool, he’s likely just imitating the speech patterns of his peer group. However, if a kid lashes out at another child and calls him a “f***ot,” he’s probably got some serious issues in his home.

  20. Rich Rifkin

    I should add one thing: obviously, kids are influenced in their thinking and speech patterns by their peers. However, the anger expressed toward others for their race or sexual orientation or some other harmless trait, I believe, usually comes from their home lives. I can imagine exceptions, but that, I suppose, is mostly the case.

    As such, if a kid casually says “that’s so gay” to mean something is not cool, he’s likely just imitating the speech patterns of his peer group. However, if a kid lashes out at another child and calls him a “f***ot,” he’s probably got some serious issues in his home.

  21. from the Darkside

    I think Don Shor touched up on something. Sometimes kids say outrageous things to get attention. This may or may not be the case. I hope these are attention getting stunts, and not something worse. I won’t stick my head in the sand however.

    I have to say the most number of times I have heard “nigger” used is by blacks as Don suggests. Much of the language as Don points out comes from rap “artists.”

  22. from the Darkside

    I think Don Shor touched up on something. Sometimes kids say outrageous things to get attention. This may or may not be the case. I hope these are attention getting stunts, and not something worse. I won’t stick my head in the sand however.

    I have to say the most number of times I have heard “nigger” used is by blacks as Don suggests. Much of the language as Don points out comes from rap “artists.”

  23. from the Darkside

    I think Don Shor touched up on something. Sometimes kids say outrageous things to get attention. This may or may not be the case. I hope these are attention getting stunts, and not something worse. I won’t stick my head in the sand however.

    I have to say the most number of times I have heard “nigger” used is by blacks as Don suggests. Much of the language as Don points out comes from rap “artists.”

  24. from the Darkside

    I think Don Shor touched up on something. Sometimes kids say outrageous things to get attention. This may or may not be the case. I hope these are attention getting stunts, and not something worse. I won’t stick my head in the sand however.

    I have to say the most number of times I have heard “nigger” used is by blacks as Don suggests. Much of the language as Don points out comes from rap “artists.”

  25. closeted imperfect parent of a teenager

    I agree with everything Don Shor so accurately described. Raising teenagers is tough, especially in this community.

    I think covering the incident is appropriate and it would be helpful to discus explicitly what was said, etc. as it would increase community awareness about our kid’s lives in our community, but a community mob trying to weigh in on what should happen to the offenders and their equally guilty parents is inappropriate and, to me, appears just as hateful. Don’t be ignorant about the presence of racism and bias in our community, but we can’t just try to drive our community problems (kids) out of town in an effort to create some kind of Utopian community.

    I believe that Jann Murray-Garcia’s hard work to open our eyes is much needed. She seems to grasp better than most, that not all is well in our kid’s world. The “hate crime” incidents are only the ones that the police have a recorded. You can imagine what isn’t reported – the things that kids keep to themselves. But, having “adults” get involved and try to fix things just doesn’t work either. The most I think we can do is lend a sympathetic ear, give them a hug, and assist them in whatever way is welcomed.

  26. closeted imperfect parent of a

    I agree with everything Don Shor so accurately described. Raising teenagers is tough, especially in this community.

    I think covering the incident is appropriate and it would be helpful to discus explicitly what was said, etc. as it would increase community awareness about our kid’s lives in our community, but a community mob trying to weigh in on what should happen to the offenders and their equally guilty parents is inappropriate and, to me, appears just as hateful. Don’t be ignorant about the presence of racism and bias in our community, but we can’t just try to drive our community problems (kids) out of town in an effort to create some kind of Utopian community.

    I believe that Jann Murray-Garcia’s hard work to open our eyes is much needed. She seems to grasp better than most, that not all is well in our kid’s world. The “hate crime” incidents are only the ones that the police have a recorded. You can imagine what isn’t reported – the things that kids keep to themselves. But, having “adults” get involved and try to fix things just doesn’t work either. The most I think we can do is lend a sympathetic ear, give them a hug, and assist them in whatever way is welcomed.

  27. closeted imperfect parent of a

    I agree with everything Don Shor so accurately described. Raising teenagers is tough, especially in this community.

    I think covering the incident is appropriate and it would be helpful to discus explicitly what was said, etc. as it would increase community awareness about our kid’s lives in our community, but a community mob trying to weigh in on what should happen to the offenders and their equally guilty parents is inappropriate and, to me, appears just as hateful. Don’t be ignorant about the presence of racism and bias in our community, but we can’t just try to drive our community problems (kids) out of town in an effort to create some kind of Utopian community.

    I believe that Jann Murray-Garcia’s hard work to open our eyes is much needed. She seems to grasp better than most, that not all is well in our kid’s world. The “hate crime” incidents are only the ones that the police have a recorded. You can imagine what isn’t reported – the things that kids keep to themselves. But, having “adults” get involved and try to fix things just doesn’t work either. The most I think we can do is lend a sympathetic ear, give them a hug, and assist them in whatever way is welcomed.

  28. closeted imperfect parent of a

    I agree with everything Don Shor so accurately described. Raising teenagers is tough, especially in this community.

    I think covering the incident is appropriate and it would be helpful to discus explicitly what was said, etc. as it would increase community awareness about our kid’s lives in our community, but a community mob trying to weigh in on what should happen to the offenders and their equally guilty parents is inappropriate and, to me, appears just as hateful. Don’t be ignorant about the presence of racism and bias in our community, but we can’t just try to drive our community problems (kids) out of town in an effort to create some kind of Utopian community.

    I believe that Jann Murray-Garcia’s hard work to open our eyes is much needed. She seems to grasp better than most, that not all is well in our kid’s world. The “hate crime” incidents are only the ones that the police have a recorded. You can imagine what isn’t reported – the things that kids keep to themselves. But, having “adults” get involved and try to fix things just doesn’t work either. The most I think we can do is lend a sympathetic ear, give them a hug, and assist them in whatever way is welcomed.

  29. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m not willing to let the schools off the hook on this one. It isn’t just the home that is responsible for racism and hate crimes. If schools, teachers and administrators allow bullying in the classroom, it spills over into all aspects of public life. There has to be a collective will not to tolerate abusive behavior wherever it occurs.

    However, media and Hollywood have to take some blame here as well, as Don Shor pointed out so perfectly. Nasty language, degrading of females is commonplace on television and in magazines. It is very hard for parents to raise a child these days, when mixed messages are sent by every avenue imaginable. We tolerate this crap in the name of “free speech”, and refuse to put any limits on what is said in the public forum. Well now you are seeing the effects of complete and unfettered freedom of speech.

    Remember, freedom of speech includes rap music (much of which degrades women, uses foul language, encourages cop killing); reality shows that encourage terrible behavior with heavily sexualized overtones (Paris Hilton’s show, Hugh Hefner’s Girls Next Door, etc.) Kids are like a sponge, and soak up whatever they hear and wherever they hear it from.

    The community has to wake up and smell the coffee. Kids are picking up bad behaviors from all sorts of sources. Peer pressure is huge among teens, especially latch key kids. How about after school programs, no more off campus lunching, and schools that do not tolerate racism? The community needs to set good examples, and have healthy alternatives to dirty rap music, awful television shows, and worse video games.

    We need to clean up our airwaves, control labels on music, and teach kids good citizenship/ethics – which includes the golden rule – do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    How about forcing those kids who committed the hate crimes to mop up their own mess, then do appropriate community service that forces them to give back to the community?

  30. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m not willing to let the schools off the hook on this one. It isn’t just the home that is responsible for racism and hate crimes. If schools, teachers and administrators allow bullying in the classroom, it spills over into all aspects of public life. There has to be a collective will not to tolerate abusive behavior wherever it occurs.

    However, media and Hollywood have to take some blame here as well, as Don Shor pointed out so perfectly. Nasty language, degrading of females is commonplace on television and in magazines. It is very hard for parents to raise a child these days, when mixed messages are sent by every avenue imaginable. We tolerate this crap in the name of “free speech”, and refuse to put any limits on what is said in the public forum. Well now you are seeing the effects of complete and unfettered freedom of speech.

    Remember, freedom of speech includes rap music (much of which degrades women, uses foul language, encourages cop killing); reality shows that encourage terrible behavior with heavily sexualized overtones (Paris Hilton’s show, Hugh Hefner’s Girls Next Door, etc.) Kids are like a sponge, and soak up whatever they hear and wherever they hear it from.

    The community has to wake up and smell the coffee. Kids are picking up bad behaviors from all sorts of sources. Peer pressure is huge among teens, especially latch key kids. How about after school programs, no more off campus lunching, and schools that do not tolerate racism? The community needs to set good examples, and have healthy alternatives to dirty rap music, awful television shows, and worse video games.

    We need to clean up our airwaves, control labels on music, and teach kids good citizenship/ethics – which includes the golden rule – do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    How about forcing those kids who committed the hate crimes to mop up their own mess, then do appropriate community service that forces them to give back to the community?

  31. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m not willing to let the schools off the hook on this one. It isn’t just the home that is responsible for racism and hate crimes. If schools, teachers and administrators allow bullying in the classroom, it spills over into all aspects of public life. There has to be a collective will not to tolerate abusive behavior wherever it occurs.

    However, media and Hollywood have to take some blame here as well, as Don Shor pointed out so perfectly. Nasty language, degrading of females is commonplace on television and in magazines. It is very hard for parents to raise a child these days, when mixed messages are sent by every avenue imaginable. We tolerate this crap in the name of “free speech”, and refuse to put any limits on what is said in the public forum. Well now you are seeing the effects of complete and unfettered freedom of speech.

    Remember, freedom of speech includes rap music (much of which degrades women, uses foul language, encourages cop killing); reality shows that encourage terrible behavior with heavily sexualized overtones (Paris Hilton’s show, Hugh Hefner’s Girls Next Door, etc.) Kids are like a sponge, and soak up whatever they hear and wherever they hear it from.

    The community has to wake up and smell the coffee. Kids are picking up bad behaviors from all sorts of sources. Peer pressure is huge among teens, especially latch key kids. How about after school programs, no more off campus lunching, and schools that do not tolerate racism? The community needs to set good examples, and have healthy alternatives to dirty rap music, awful television shows, and worse video games.

    We need to clean up our airwaves, control labels on music, and teach kids good citizenship/ethics – which includes the golden rule – do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    How about forcing those kids who committed the hate crimes to mop up their own mess, then do appropriate community service that forces them to give back to the community?

  32. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m not willing to let the schools off the hook on this one. It isn’t just the home that is responsible for racism and hate crimes. If schools, teachers and administrators allow bullying in the classroom, it spills over into all aspects of public life. There has to be a collective will not to tolerate abusive behavior wherever it occurs.

    However, media and Hollywood have to take some blame here as well, as Don Shor pointed out so perfectly. Nasty language, degrading of females is commonplace on television and in magazines. It is very hard for parents to raise a child these days, when mixed messages are sent by every avenue imaginable. We tolerate this crap in the name of “free speech”, and refuse to put any limits on what is said in the public forum. Well now you are seeing the effects of complete and unfettered freedom of speech.

    Remember, freedom of speech includes rap music (much of which degrades women, uses foul language, encourages cop killing); reality shows that encourage terrible behavior with heavily sexualized overtones (Paris Hilton’s show, Hugh Hefner’s Girls Next Door, etc.) Kids are like a sponge, and soak up whatever they hear and wherever they hear it from.

    The community has to wake up and smell the coffee. Kids are picking up bad behaviors from all sorts of sources. Peer pressure is huge among teens, especially latch key kids. How about after school programs, no more off campus lunching, and schools that do not tolerate racism? The community needs to set good examples, and have healthy alternatives to dirty rap music, awful television shows, and worse video games.

    We need to clean up our airwaves, control labels on music, and teach kids good citizenship/ethics – which includes the golden rule – do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    How about forcing those kids who committed the hate crimes to mop up their own mess, then do appropriate community service that forces them to give back to the community?

  33. NWA Fan

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Not all rap and hip-hop is negative. My parents let me listen to rap. Even worse – they let me listen to NWA with there infamous song “Fuck the police”! Guess what? I’m pretty well socialized into society; college grad, work at a great job, and I haven’t ever yelled a racial slur or attacked a cop. In fact most of the kids I grew up with in Davis that listend to rap or death metal turned out alright. The ones that didn’t turn out alright usually had non-music related reasons for their problems.
    You can’t blame a music genre for kids behavior.

    As Rich suggested the kind of behavior these teens showed was probably picked up from parents and peers.

  34. NWA Fan

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Not all rap and hip-hop is negative. My parents let me listen to rap. Even worse – they let me listen to NWA with there infamous song “Fuck the police”! Guess what? I’m pretty well socialized into society; college grad, work at a great job, and I haven’t ever yelled a racial slur or attacked a cop. In fact most of the kids I grew up with in Davis that listend to rap or death metal turned out alright. The ones that didn’t turn out alright usually had non-music related reasons for their problems.
    You can’t blame a music genre for kids behavior.

    As Rich suggested the kind of behavior these teens showed was probably picked up from parents and peers.

  35. NWA Fan

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Not all rap and hip-hop is negative. My parents let me listen to rap. Even worse – they let me listen to NWA with there infamous song “Fuck the police”! Guess what? I’m pretty well socialized into society; college grad, work at a great job, and I haven’t ever yelled a racial slur or attacked a cop. In fact most of the kids I grew up with in Davis that listend to rap or death metal turned out alright. The ones that didn’t turn out alright usually had non-music related reasons for their problems.
    You can’t blame a music genre for kids behavior.

    As Rich suggested the kind of behavior these teens showed was probably picked up from parents and peers.

  36. NWA Fan

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Not all rap and hip-hop is negative. My parents let me listen to rap. Even worse – they let me listen to NWA with there infamous song “Fuck the police”! Guess what? I’m pretty well socialized into society; college grad, work at a great job, and I haven’t ever yelled a racial slur or attacked a cop. In fact most of the kids I grew up with in Davis that listend to rap or death metal turned out alright. The ones that didn’t turn out alright usually had non-music related reasons for their problems.
    You can’t blame a music genre for kids behavior.

    As Rich suggested the kind of behavior these teens showed was probably picked up from parents and peers.

  37. NWA Fan

    Yes let’s start censoring, lets keep having our government tell us how to live, tell us what to watch or not to watch, monitor our behavior, control our behavior, and make sure every choice we make is a health one.

    Have you ever thought that placing the responsibility of someone’s behavior on “society”, takes away society’s freedom?

    Stop blaming the media for kid’s bad behavior. There was bad behavior long before mass media. You just lose focus on how to solve individual situations by blaming others and not the person who committed the act.

    Those angry teens who committed these horrible acts would have committed them whether or not rap existed.

  38. NWA Fan

    Yes let’s start censoring, lets keep having our government tell us how to live, tell us what to watch or not to watch, monitor our behavior, control our behavior, and make sure every choice we make is a health one.

    Have you ever thought that placing the responsibility of someone’s behavior on “society”, takes away society’s freedom?

    Stop blaming the media for kid’s bad behavior. There was bad behavior long before mass media. You just lose focus on how to solve individual situations by blaming others and not the person who committed the act.

    Those angry teens who committed these horrible acts would have committed them whether or not rap existed.

  39. NWA Fan

    Yes let’s start censoring, lets keep having our government tell us how to live, tell us what to watch or not to watch, monitor our behavior, control our behavior, and make sure every choice we make is a health one.

    Have you ever thought that placing the responsibility of someone’s behavior on “society”, takes away society’s freedom?

    Stop blaming the media for kid’s bad behavior. There was bad behavior long before mass media. You just lose focus on how to solve individual situations by blaming others and not the person who committed the act.

    Those angry teens who committed these horrible acts would have committed them whether or not rap existed.

  40. NWA Fan

    Yes let’s start censoring, lets keep having our government tell us how to live, tell us what to watch or not to watch, monitor our behavior, control our behavior, and make sure every choice we make is a health one.

    Have you ever thought that placing the responsibility of someone’s behavior on “society”, takes away society’s freedom?

    Stop blaming the media for kid’s bad behavior. There was bad behavior long before mass media. You just lose focus on how to solve individual situations by blaming others and not the person who committed the act.

    Those angry teens who committed these horrible acts would have committed them whether or not rap existed.

  41. Richard

    The city of Davis has a long history of difficulty in relating to African Americans with respect. Blaming hip hop for the most recent incidents is, given this history, quite embarassing, but consistent with the consistent tendency in the Davis community to look somewhere, anywhere, but at itself as the source of this sort of behavior.

    –Richard Estes

  42. Richard

    The city of Davis has a long history of difficulty in relating to African Americans with respect. Blaming hip hop for the most recent incidents is, given this history, quite embarassing, but consistent with the consistent tendency in the Davis community to look somewhere, anywhere, but at itself as the source of this sort of behavior.

    –Richard Estes

  43. Richard

    The city of Davis has a long history of difficulty in relating to African Americans with respect. Blaming hip hop for the most recent incidents is, given this history, quite embarassing, but consistent with the consistent tendency in the Davis community to look somewhere, anywhere, but at itself as the source of this sort of behavior.

    –Richard Estes

  44. Richard

    The city of Davis has a long history of difficulty in relating to African Americans with respect. Blaming hip hop for the most recent incidents is, given this history, quite embarassing, but consistent with the consistent tendency in the Davis community to look somewhere, anywhere, but at itself as the source of this sort of behavior.

    –Richard Estes

  45. don shor

    We don’t know the races of the perpetrators. We don’t know their motives. We don’t know about their home lives. We don’t know if they were angry. We don’t really know much of anything about this case. So there are a lot of assumptions being made about all of this.

    Richard Estes, of course, doesn’t ever miss an opportunity to criticize Davis residents (how many teenagers have you raised, Richard?). My point, of course, was that casual use of racist terminology (not to mention misogynistic and other derogatory terms) is everywhere. And that tolerating racism and misogyny in one format, while bridling with indignation when it occurs in another, is rank hypocrisy. So, NWA fan, I do hope you recognize the harmful messages that permeate the entire rap and hip hop culture, even as you appreciate individual artists.

    I thought Jann and Jonathan wrote an excellent article in their op-ed piece for the Enterprise. I hope they will someday address the pervasive bigotry that is tolerated in our media and the corrosive effect it has. Parents will deal with that issue in their own ways and I won’t criticize anyone for how they deal with it in their own homes; you pick your battles. My own solution was to just hit the off button the third time offensive language was used in any particular song. Unfortunately, a lot of ’em never got past the 2nd or 3rd line.

  46. don shor

    We don’t know the races of the perpetrators. We don’t know their motives. We don’t know about their home lives. We don’t know if they were angry. We don’t really know much of anything about this case. So there are a lot of assumptions being made about all of this.

    Richard Estes, of course, doesn’t ever miss an opportunity to criticize Davis residents (how many teenagers have you raised, Richard?). My point, of course, was that casual use of racist terminology (not to mention misogynistic and other derogatory terms) is everywhere. And that tolerating racism and misogyny in one format, while bridling with indignation when it occurs in another, is rank hypocrisy. So, NWA fan, I do hope you recognize the harmful messages that permeate the entire rap and hip hop culture, even as you appreciate individual artists.

    I thought Jann and Jonathan wrote an excellent article in their op-ed piece for the Enterprise. I hope they will someday address the pervasive bigotry that is tolerated in our media and the corrosive effect it has. Parents will deal with that issue in their own ways and I won’t criticize anyone for how they deal with it in their own homes; you pick your battles. My own solution was to just hit the off button the third time offensive language was used in any particular song. Unfortunately, a lot of ’em never got past the 2nd or 3rd line.

  47. don shor

    We don’t know the races of the perpetrators. We don’t know their motives. We don’t know about their home lives. We don’t know if they were angry. We don’t really know much of anything about this case. So there are a lot of assumptions being made about all of this.

    Richard Estes, of course, doesn’t ever miss an opportunity to criticize Davis residents (how many teenagers have you raised, Richard?). My point, of course, was that casual use of racist terminology (not to mention misogynistic and other derogatory terms) is everywhere. And that tolerating racism and misogyny in one format, while bridling with indignation when it occurs in another, is rank hypocrisy. So, NWA fan, I do hope you recognize the harmful messages that permeate the entire rap and hip hop culture, even as you appreciate individual artists.

    I thought Jann and Jonathan wrote an excellent article in their op-ed piece for the Enterprise. I hope they will someday address the pervasive bigotry that is tolerated in our media and the corrosive effect it has. Parents will deal with that issue in their own ways and I won’t criticize anyone for how they deal with it in their own homes; you pick your battles. My own solution was to just hit the off button the third time offensive language was used in any particular song. Unfortunately, a lot of ’em never got past the 2nd or 3rd line.

  48. don shor

    We don’t know the races of the perpetrators. We don’t know their motives. We don’t know about their home lives. We don’t know if they were angry. We don’t really know much of anything about this case. So there are a lot of assumptions being made about all of this.

    Richard Estes, of course, doesn’t ever miss an opportunity to criticize Davis residents (how many teenagers have you raised, Richard?). My point, of course, was that casual use of racist terminology (not to mention misogynistic and other derogatory terms) is everywhere. And that tolerating racism and misogyny in one format, while bridling with indignation when it occurs in another, is rank hypocrisy. So, NWA fan, I do hope you recognize the harmful messages that permeate the entire rap and hip hop culture, even as you appreciate individual artists.

    I thought Jann and Jonathan wrote an excellent article in their op-ed piece for the Enterprise. I hope they will someday address the pervasive bigotry that is tolerated in our media and the corrosive effect it has. Parents will deal with that issue in their own ways and I won’t criticize anyone for how they deal with it in their own homes; you pick your battles. My own solution was to just hit the off button the third time offensive language was used in any particular song. Unfortunately, a lot of ’em never got past the 2nd or 3rd line.

  49. Richard

    my, my, aren’t we sensitive

    and, your response is a classic example of what I encountered when I lived in Davis whenever anyone pointed out the historic climate of hostility towards African Americans: blame the messenger

    but, you can criticize me all you want, but it won’t change the fact that the city of Davis has a notorious history in regard to its social acceptance of African Americans

    and, predictably, when yet another incident occurs, one experiences another typical response, there must be some reason other than the values and behaviour of the perpetrators, some reason that absolves Davis as a community from any responsibility

    in this instance, hip hop

    right, that’s it, it was the fault of Tupac, Biggie and Chuck D.

    well, at least you had something good to say about Jann and Jonathan, and one hopes that it wasn’t situational, i.e. primarily for the purpose of criticizing me instead of truly praising their good works

    –Richard Estes

  50. nwa fan

    Don Shor-

    I recognize that the messages rap puts out is not a major determinant in the behavior of a child. Kids use things like music to express their own feelings. Blaming something like rap for the feelings of a child takes away from that child ownership of those feelings and the responsibility of handling them appropriately.
    You can blame and censor rap all you want in an attempt to stop negative behavior, but it’s not going to do any good.

  51. Richard

    my, my, aren’t we sensitive

    and, your response is a classic example of what I encountered when I lived in Davis whenever anyone pointed out the historic climate of hostility towards African Americans: blame the messenger

    but, you can criticize me all you want, but it won’t change the fact that the city of Davis has a notorious history in regard to its social acceptance of African Americans

    and, predictably, when yet another incident occurs, one experiences another typical response, there must be some reason other than the values and behaviour of the perpetrators, some reason that absolves Davis as a community from any responsibility

    in this instance, hip hop

    right, that’s it, it was the fault of Tupac, Biggie and Chuck D.

    well, at least you had something good to say about Jann and Jonathan, and one hopes that it wasn’t situational, i.e. primarily for the purpose of criticizing me instead of truly praising their good works

    –Richard Estes

  52. nwa fan

    Don Shor-

    I recognize that the messages rap puts out is not a major determinant in the behavior of a child. Kids use things like music to express their own feelings. Blaming something like rap for the feelings of a child takes away from that child ownership of those feelings and the responsibility of handling them appropriately.
    You can blame and censor rap all you want in an attempt to stop negative behavior, but it’s not going to do any good.

  53. Richard

    my, my, aren’t we sensitive

    and, your response is a classic example of what I encountered when I lived in Davis whenever anyone pointed out the historic climate of hostility towards African Americans: blame the messenger

    but, you can criticize me all you want, but it won’t change the fact that the city of Davis has a notorious history in regard to its social acceptance of African Americans

    and, predictably, when yet another incident occurs, one experiences another typical response, there must be some reason other than the values and behaviour of the perpetrators, some reason that absolves Davis as a community from any responsibility

    in this instance, hip hop

    right, that’s it, it was the fault of Tupac, Biggie and Chuck D.

    well, at least you had something good to say about Jann and Jonathan, and one hopes that it wasn’t situational, i.e. primarily for the purpose of criticizing me instead of truly praising their good works

    –Richard Estes

  54. nwa fan

    Don Shor-

    I recognize that the messages rap puts out is not a major determinant in the behavior of a child. Kids use things like music to express their own feelings. Blaming something like rap for the feelings of a child takes away from that child ownership of those feelings and the responsibility of handling them appropriately.
    You can blame and censor rap all you want in an attempt to stop negative behavior, but it’s not going to do any good.

  55. Richard

    my, my, aren’t we sensitive

    and, your response is a classic example of what I encountered when I lived in Davis whenever anyone pointed out the historic climate of hostility towards African Americans: blame the messenger

    but, you can criticize me all you want, but it won’t change the fact that the city of Davis has a notorious history in regard to its social acceptance of African Americans

    and, predictably, when yet another incident occurs, one experiences another typical response, there must be some reason other than the values and behaviour of the perpetrators, some reason that absolves Davis as a community from any responsibility

    in this instance, hip hop

    right, that’s it, it was the fault of Tupac, Biggie and Chuck D.

    well, at least you had something good to say about Jann and Jonathan, and one hopes that it wasn’t situational, i.e. primarily for the purpose of criticizing me instead of truly praising their good works

    –Richard Estes

  56. nwa fan

    Don Shor-

    I recognize that the messages rap puts out is not a major determinant in the behavior of a child. Kids use things like music to express their own feelings. Blaming something like rap for the feelings of a child takes away from that child ownership of those feelings and the responsibility of handling them appropriately.
    You can blame and censor rap all you want in an attempt to stop negative behavior, but it’s not going to do any good.

  57. Hustle & Flow

    Here’s a good example of rap lyrics and their positive impact on our culture. This number is from Ludacris:

    Cant turn a ho into a housewife
    Hos dont act right
    Theres hos on a mission, an hoes on a crackpipe
    Hey ho how ya doin, where ya been?
    Prolly doin ho stuff cuz there you ho again
    Its a ho wide world, that we livin in
    feline, feminine, fantastical, women
    Not all, just some
    You ho who you are
    Theres hoes in tha room, theres hoes in tha car
    theres hoes on stage, theres hoes by tha bar
    hos by near, an hos by far
    Ho! (But can i getta ride?!)
    NO! (Cmon, nigga why?!)
    Cuz youza

    Hooooooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    I said that youza hooooo (Ho)

  58. Hustle & Flow

    Here’s a good example of rap lyrics and their positive impact on our culture. This number is from Ludacris:

    Cant turn a ho into a housewife
    Hos dont act right
    Theres hos on a mission, an hoes on a crackpipe
    Hey ho how ya doin, where ya been?
    Prolly doin ho stuff cuz there you ho again
    Its a ho wide world, that we livin in
    feline, feminine, fantastical, women
    Not all, just some
    You ho who you are
    Theres hoes in tha room, theres hoes in tha car
    theres hoes on stage, theres hoes by tha bar
    hos by near, an hos by far
    Ho! (But can i getta ride?!)
    NO! (Cmon, nigga why?!)
    Cuz youza

    Hooooooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    I said that youza hooooo (Ho)

  59. Hustle & Flow

    Here’s a good example of rap lyrics and their positive impact on our culture. This number is from Ludacris:

    Cant turn a ho into a housewife
    Hos dont act right
    Theres hos on a mission, an hoes on a crackpipe
    Hey ho how ya doin, where ya been?
    Prolly doin ho stuff cuz there you ho again
    Its a ho wide world, that we livin in
    feline, feminine, fantastical, women
    Not all, just some
    You ho who you are
    Theres hoes in tha room, theres hoes in tha car
    theres hoes on stage, theres hoes by tha bar
    hos by near, an hos by far
    Ho! (But can i getta ride?!)
    NO! (Cmon, nigga why?!)
    Cuz youza

    Hooooooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    I said that youza hooooo (Ho)

  60. Hustle & Flow

    Here’s a good example of rap lyrics and their positive impact on our culture. This number is from Ludacris:

    Cant turn a ho into a housewife
    Hos dont act right
    Theres hos on a mission, an hoes on a crackpipe
    Hey ho how ya doin, where ya been?
    Prolly doin ho stuff cuz there you ho again
    Its a ho wide world, that we livin in
    feline, feminine, fantastical, women
    Not all, just some
    You ho who you are
    Theres hoes in tha room, theres hoes in tha car
    theres hoes on stage, theres hoes by tha bar
    hos by near, an hos by far
    Ho! (But can i getta ride?!)
    NO! (Cmon, nigga why?!)
    Cuz youza

    Hooooooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    Youza Hoooooo (Ho)
    I said that youza hooooo (Ho)

  61. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m sorry, but I think Don Shor is exactly on point. The media; Hollywood; schools; the community in general, tolerates abusive behavior. In fact at times glorifies it. I hear the argument all the time that the media only reflects what kids do, not the other way around. Baloney.

    Kids that are inundated with bad messages, who perhaps come from a troubled home, are going to be effected by bad role models. Whether it be rap stars like Eminem, dirty old men like Hugh Hefner, or vapid sex pots like Paris Hilton, kids imitate what they see – especially latch key kids or kids with problems at home.

    Here is a case in point. When the fashion of showing the midriff among girls came out, with low riding jeans that showed butt cleavage, the clothes designers raved about how sexy it was. After a time, the waistlines of the jeans rose higher and the tops grew longer to cover the butt cleavage. Guess what? Those same designers later talked about how disgusting it was to show thong underware in the back, or butt cleavage. Kids followed the clothes designers slavishly, and we had ten and eleven year old girls looking like hookers.

    Now we have trash television. Hugh Hefner houses three bimbos he sleeps alternately with, who invite their younger sisters age sixteen or younger over for a visit. Paris Hilton doesn’t know anyone she doesn’t like to make fun of or have sex with. Rock stars invite fans backstage to have orgies with every performance. The television show Three’s Company spawned the practice of men and women rooming together within the same apartment, something that had never occurred before but is incredibly foolish (a friend of mine’s daughter was raped by her male roommate, so don’t even go there with me on this one). We are fast becoming a very hedonistic society with no moral compass.

    If rap stars are churning out racist messages, why do people have problems with a common sense approach, that tells us this can’t be a good thing. If you wouldn’t allow your child to use such language, why would one support it being spread around in the public forum? It doesn’t make sense.

    Think about it. Abercrombie and Fitch put out a disgusting catalogue, that essentially promoted group sex. Customers balked, and sales went down 18%, if I remember my numbers correctly. But why tolerate such stuff in the first place? It does not belong in a public venue for children to see. Why do you think kids get sucked in by things they view on the Internet. They have become desensitized to sex, violence, racism in its infinite forms, crudity, baseness, etc.

    Lest I hear the argument that we should not limit “freedom of speech”, it is already limited. We cannot cry “fire” in a crowded theater. Neither can we possess child pornography; nor are snuff films allowed. The line has already been drawn, but the media via Hollywood are pushing the edge of the envelope too far and need to be checked.

    Kids are filming themselves engaged in fistfights, having sexual orgies, and the like. Are you telling me that junior high girls used to perform oral sex on male students inside a school bus in former times? I think not – but it has occurred recently. Media of all kinds does have an impact on many children, who copy what they see, especially the more immature and troubled they are. Why assist society in giving them bad messages? I am sorry, I don’t see any logic in that.

    Another thing that is happening is the bastardization of our free enterprise system. It is being highjacked by the political system. I do not for one minute believe that Paris Hilton is watched by huge numbers of fans. Daddy bought her that show, just as Donald Trump purchased his show, as did Hugh Hefner, Gene Simmons of Kiss, the Kardashians, etc. We are watching the wealthy doing just about anything they want, and getting away with it, while the rest of us are allowing our public airways to be taken over for their private use.

    How many times have these stars been busted for drug use, drunk driving, shoplifting, cavorting with prostitutes? Had it been any one of us, we would have been placed in jail long ago. We are allowing the wealthy to smear our airways with absolute filth, to corrupt our young kids, and wonder why we are having an upsurge in gang violence, drug use, drunk driving… Is it any wonder? Hello out there!

    If you want racism to stop, then start by cleaning up the airways. Keep the garbage out of the time slots when kids would be exposed to it. Promote healthier programming, bring back reading as a recreational pasttime, along with music, athletics, and socializing through service clubs and the like. Provide after school programs that promote good life styles. Teach ethics in school, and don’t allow our administrators to tolerate racism in any of its forms.

    If you tolerate rap stars spewing out racist venom, then it is the height of hypcrisy to criticize impressionable kids for using the very same language. You can’t have it both ways.

  62. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m sorry, but I think Don Shor is exactly on point. The media; Hollywood; schools; the community in general, tolerates abusive behavior. In fact at times glorifies it. I hear the argument all the time that the media only reflects what kids do, not the other way around. Baloney.

    Kids that are inundated with bad messages, who perhaps come from a troubled home, are going to be effected by bad role models. Whether it be rap stars like Eminem, dirty old men like Hugh Hefner, or vapid sex pots like Paris Hilton, kids imitate what they see – especially latch key kids or kids with problems at home.

    Here is a case in point. When the fashion of showing the midriff among girls came out, with low riding jeans that showed butt cleavage, the clothes designers raved about how sexy it was. After a time, the waistlines of the jeans rose higher and the tops grew longer to cover the butt cleavage. Guess what? Those same designers later talked about how disgusting it was to show thong underware in the back, or butt cleavage. Kids followed the clothes designers slavishly, and we had ten and eleven year old girls looking like hookers.

    Now we have trash television. Hugh Hefner houses three bimbos he sleeps alternately with, who invite their younger sisters age sixteen or younger over for a visit. Paris Hilton doesn’t know anyone she doesn’t like to make fun of or have sex with. Rock stars invite fans backstage to have orgies with every performance. The television show Three’s Company spawned the practice of men and women rooming together within the same apartment, something that had never occurred before but is incredibly foolish (a friend of mine’s daughter was raped by her male roommate, so don’t even go there with me on this one). We are fast becoming a very hedonistic society with no moral compass.

    If rap stars are churning out racist messages, why do people have problems with a common sense approach, that tells us this can’t be a good thing. If you wouldn’t allow your child to use such language, why would one support it being spread around in the public forum? It doesn’t make sense.

    Think about it. Abercrombie and Fitch put out a disgusting catalogue, that essentially promoted group sex. Customers balked, and sales went down 18%, if I remember my numbers correctly. But why tolerate such stuff in the first place? It does not belong in a public venue for children to see. Why do you think kids get sucked in by things they view on the Internet. They have become desensitized to sex, violence, racism in its infinite forms, crudity, baseness, etc.

    Lest I hear the argument that we should not limit “freedom of speech”, it is already limited. We cannot cry “fire” in a crowded theater. Neither can we possess child pornography; nor are snuff films allowed. The line has already been drawn, but the media via Hollywood are pushing the edge of the envelope too far and need to be checked.

    Kids are filming themselves engaged in fistfights, having sexual orgies, and the like. Are you telling me that junior high girls used to perform oral sex on male students inside a school bus in former times? I think not – but it has occurred recently. Media of all kinds does have an impact on many children, who copy what they see, especially the more immature and troubled they are. Why assist society in giving them bad messages? I am sorry, I don’t see any logic in that.

    Another thing that is happening is the bastardization of our free enterprise system. It is being highjacked by the political system. I do not for one minute believe that Paris Hilton is watched by huge numbers of fans. Daddy bought her that show, just as Donald Trump purchased his show, as did Hugh Hefner, Gene Simmons of Kiss, the Kardashians, etc. We are watching the wealthy doing just about anything they want, and getting away with it, while the rest of us are allowing our public airways to be taken over for their private use.

    How many times have these stars been busted for drug use, drunk driving, shoplifting, cavorting with prostitutes? Had it been any one of us, we would have been placed in jail long ago. We are allowing the wealthy to smear our airways with absolute filth, to corrupt our young kids, and wonder why we are having an upsurge in gang violence, drug use, drunk driving… Is it any wonder? Hello out there!

    If you want racism to stop, then start by cleaning up the airways. Keep the garbage out of the time slots when kids would be exposed to it. Promote healthier programming, bring back reading as a recreational pasttime, along with music, athletics, and socializing through service clubs and the like. Provide after school programs that promote good life styles. Teach ethics in school, and don’t allow our administrators to tolerate racism in any of its forms.

    If you tolerate rap stars spewing out racist venom, then it is the height of hypcrisy to criticize impressionable kids for using the very same language. You can’t have it both ways.

  63. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m sorry, but I think Don Shor is exactly on point. The media; Hollywood; schools; the community in general, tolerates abusive behavior. In fact at times glorifies it. I hear the argument all the time that the media only reflects what kids do, not the other way around. Baloney.

    Kids that are inundated with bad messages, who perhaps come from a troubled home, are going to be effected by bad role models. Whether it be rap stars like Eminem, dirty old men like Hugh Hefner, or vapid sex pots like Paris Hilton, kids imitate what they see – especially latch key kids or kids with problems at home.

    Here is a case in point. When the fashion of showing the midriff among girls came out, with low riding jeans that showed butt cleavage, the clothes designers raved about how sexy it was. After a time, the waistlines of the jeans rose higher and the tops grew longer to cover the butt cleavage. Guess what? Those same designers later talked about how disgusting it was to show thong underware in the back, or butt cleavage. Kids followed the clothes designers slavishly, and we had ten and eleven year old girls looking like hookers.

    Now we have trash television. Hugh Hefner houses three bimbos he sleeps alternately with, who invite their younger sisters age sixteen or younger over for a visit. Paris Hilton doesn’t know anyone she doesn’t like to make fun of or have sex with. Rock stars invite fans backstage to have orgies with every performance. The television show Three’s Company spawned the practice of men and women rooming together within the same apartment, something that had never occurred before but is incredibly foolish (a friend of mine’s daughter was raped by her male roommate, so don’t even go there with me on this one). We are fast becoming a very hedonistic society with no moral compass.

    If rap stars are churning out racist messages, why do people have problems with a common sense approach, that tells us this can’t be a good thing. If you wouldn’t allow your child to use such language, why would one support it being spread around in the public forum? It doesn’t make sense.

    Think about it. Abercrombie and Fitch put out a disgusting catalogue, that essentially promoted group sex. Customers balked, and sales went down 18%, if I remember my numbers correctly. But why tolerate such stuff in the first place? It does not belong in a public venue for children to see. Why do you think kids get sucked in by things they view on the Internet. They have become desensitized to sex, violence, racism in its infinite forms, crudity, baseness, etc.

    Lest I hear the argument that we should not limit “freedom of speech”, it is already limited. We cannot cry “fire” in a crowded theater. Neither can we possess child pornography; nor are snuff films allowed. The line has already been drawn, but the media via Hollywood are pushing the edge of the envelope too far and need to be checked.

    Kids are filming themselves engaged in fistfights, having sexual orgies, and the like. Are you telling me that junior high girls used to perform oral sex on male students inside a school bus in former times? I think not – but it has occurred recently. Media of all kinds does have an impact on many children, who copy what they see, especially the more immature and troubled they are. Why assist society in giving them bad messages? I am sorry, I don’t see any logic in that.

    Another thing that is happening is the bastardization of our free enterprise system. It is being highjacked by the political system. I do not for one minute believe that Paris Hilton is watched by huge numbers of fans. Daddy bought her that show, just as Donald Trump purchased his show, as did Hugh Hefner, Gene Simmons of Kiss, the Kardashians, etc. We are watching the wealthy doing just about anything they want, and getting away with it, while the rest of us are allowing our public airways to be taken over for their private use.

    How many times have these stars been busted for drug use, drunk driving, shoplifting, cavorting with prostitutes? Had it been any one of us, we would have been placed in jail long ago. We are allowing the wealthy to smear our airways with absolute filth, to corrupt our young kids, and wonder why we are having an upsurge in gang violence, drug use, drunk driving… Is it any wonder? Hello out there!

    If you want racism to stop, then start by cleaning up the airways. Keep the garbage out of the time slots when kids would be exposed to it. Promote healthier programming, bring back reading as a recreational pasttime, along with music, athletics, and socializing through service clubs and the like. Provide after school programs that promote good life styles. Teach ethics in school, and don’t allow our administrators to tolerate racism in any of its forms.

    If you tolerate rap stars spewing out racist venom, then it is the height of hypcrisy to criticize impressionable kids for using the very same language. You can’t have it both ways.

  64. Who Else Is To Blame

    I’m sorry, but I think Don Shor is exactly on point. The media; Hollywood; schools; the community in general, tolerates abusive behavior. In fact at times glorifies it. I hear the argument all the time that the media only reflects what kids do, not the other way around. Baloney.

    Kids that are inundated with bad messages, who perhaps come from a troubled home, are going to be effected by bad role models. Whether it be rap stars like Eminem, dirty old men like Hugh Hefner, or vapid sex pots like Paris Hilton, kids imitate what they see – especially latch key kids or kids with problems at home.

    Here is a case in point. When the fashion of showing the midriff among girls came out, with low riding jeans that showed butt cleavage, the clothes designers raved about how sexy it was. After a time, the waistlines of the jeans rose higher and the tops grew longer to cover the butt cleavage. Guess what? Those same designers later talked about how disgusting it was to show thong underware in the back, or butt cleavage. Kids followed the clothes designers slavishly, and we had ten and eleven year old girls looking like hookers.

    Now we have trash television. Hugh Hefner houses three bimbos he sleeps alternately with, who invite their younger sisters age sixteen or younger over for a visit. Paris Hilton doesn’t know anyone she doesn’t like to make fun of or have sex with. Rock stars invite fans backstage to have orgies with every performance. The television show Three’s Company spawned the practice of men and women rooming together within the same apartment, something that had never occurred before but is incredibly foolish (a friend of mine’s daughter was raped by her male roommate, so don’t even go there with me on this one). We are fast becoming a very hedonistic society with no moral compass.

    If rap stars are churning out racist messages, why do people have problems with a common sense approach, that tells us this can’t be a good thing. If you wouldn’t allow your child to use such language, why would one support it being spread around in the public forum? It doesn’t make sense.

    Think about it. Abercrombie and Fitch put out a disgusting catalogue, that essentially promoted group sex. Customers balked, and sales went down 18%, if I remember my numbers correctly. But why tolerate such stuff in the first place? It does not belong in a public venue for children to see. Why do you think kids get sucked in by things they view on the Internet. They have become desensitized to sex, violence, racism in its infinite forms, crudity, baseness, etc.

    Lest I hear the argument that we should not limit “freedom of speech”, it is already limited. We cannot cry “fire” in a crowded theater. Neither can we possess child pornography; nor are snuff films allowed. The line has already been drawn, but the media via Hollywood are pushing the edge of the envelope too far and need to be checked.

    Kids are filming themselves engaged in fistfights, having sexual orgies, and the like. Are you telling me that junior high girls used to perform oral sex on male students inside a school bus in former times? I think not – but it has occurred recently. Media of all kinds does have an impact on many children, who copy what they see, especially the more immature and troubled they are. Why assist society in giving them bad messages? I am sorry, I don’t see any logic in that.

    Another thing that is happening is the bastardization of our free enterprise system. It is being highjacked by the political system. I do not for one minute believe that Paris Hilton is watched by huge numbers of fans. Daddy bought her that show, just as Donald Trump purchased his show, as did Hugh Hefner, Gene Simmons of Kiss, the Kardashians, etc. We are watching the wealthy doing just about anything they want, and getting away with it, while the rest of us are allowing our public airways to be taken over for their private use.

    How many times have these stars been busted for drug use, drunk driving, shoplifting, cavorting with prostitutes? Had it been any one of us, we would have been placed in jail long ago. We are allowing the wealthy to smear our airways with absolute filth, to corrupt our young kids, and wonder why we are having an upsurge in gang violence, drug use, drunk driving… Is it any wonder? Hello out there!

    If you want racism to stop, then start by cleaning up the airways. Keep the garbage out of the time slots when kids would be exposed to it. Promote healthier programming, bring back reading as a recreational pasttime, along with music, athletics, and socializing through service clubs and the like. Provide after school programs that promote good life styles. Teach ethics in school, and don’t allow our administrators to tolerate racism in any of its forms.

    If you tolerate rap stars spewing out racist venom, then it is the height of hypcrisy to criticize impressionable kids for using the very same language. You can’t have it both ways.

  65. Chasing Amy

    In the gay community the word “queer” was used as a negative word to verbally attack gay people in an attempt to make them feel inferior. The gay community was ahead of the word game and began to use the word themselves to take away the power or perceived power that people who used the word, thought they had.

    If a person of the gay community uses it it’s okay. If someone else uses the word “queer” I don’t think it’s okay.

    Same with the use of the “n” word, or the “s” word for Mexicans / Hispanics, etc.

    Various groups use words to take away the power or the “sting” of the word in an attempt to keep certain groups down.

    There has been a lot of research on the subject.

    To quote one of the lead characters from “Chasing Amy”:

    “I call myself a dyke, because maybe next time when some redneck call me it, it won’t hurt nearly as much.”

    For supposedly the 2nd most educated community we have so much to learn in Davis. Is this really the year 2008?

  66. Chasing Amy

    In the gay community the word “queer” was used as a negative word to verbally attack gay people in an attempt to make them feel inferior. The gay community was ahead of the word game and began to use the word themselves to take away the power or perceived power that people who used the word, thought they had.

    If a person of the gay community uses it it’s okay. If someone else uses the word “queer” I don’t think it’s okay.

    Same with the use of the “n” word, or the “s” word for Mexicans / Hispanics, etc.

    Various groups use words to take away the power or the “sting” of the word in an attempt to keep certain groups down.

    There has been a lot of research on the subject.

    To quote one of the lead characters from “Chasing Amy”:

    “I call myself a dyke, because maybe next time when some redneck call me it, it won’t hurt nearly as much.”

    For supposedly the 2nd most educated community we have so much to learn in Davis. Is this really the year 2008?

  67. Chasing Amy

    In the gay community the word “queer” was used as a negative word to verbally attack gay people in an attempt to make them feel inferior. The gay community was ahead of the word game and began to use the word themselves to take away the power or perceived power that people who used the word, thought they had.

    If a person of the gay community uses it it’s okay. If someone else uses the word “queer” I don’t think it’s okay.

    Same with the use of the “n” word, or the “s” word for Mexicans / Hispanics, etc.

    Various groups use words to take away the power or the “sting” of the word in an attempt to keep certain groups down.

    There has been a lot of research on the subject.

    To quote one of the lead characters from “Chasing Amy”:

    “I call myself a dyke, because maybe next time when some redneck call me it, it won’t hurt nearly as much.”

    For supposedly the 2nd most educated community we have so much to learn in Davis. Is this really the year 2008?

  68. Chasing Amy

    In the gay community the word “queer” was used as a negative word to verbally attack gay people in an attempt to make them feel inferior. The gay community was ahead of the word game and began to use the word themselves to take away the power or perceived power that people who used the word, thought they had.

    If a person of the gay community uses it it’s okay. If someone else uses the word “queer” I don’t think it’s okay.

    Same with the use of the “n” word, or the “s” word for Mexicans / Hispanics, etc.

    Various groups use words to take away the power or the “sting” of the word in an attempt to keep certain groups down.

    There has been a lot of research on the subject.

    To quote one of the lead characters from “Chasing Amy”:

    “I call myself a dyke, because maybe next time when some redneck call me it, it won’t hurt nearly as much.”

    For supposedly the 2nd most educated community we have so much to learn in Davis. Is this really the year 2008?

  69. Richard

    do the people here posting about how racial incidents in Davis are being caused by hip hop and trash culture realize how preposterous they look?

    how they confirm the suspicions of people around the region that Davis residents look for outside scapegoats to blame for the city’s history of racial turmoil instead examining the responsibility of their own citizens and institutions?

    how they confirm the long standing tendency of some residents to get angrier at people who point these things out, then the actual incidents themselves?

    Davis has a history of this sort of thing that predates hip hop, and, sadly, it will probably persist after hip hop is reduced to sub genre of music outside the pop mainstream, reduced to something akin to jazz or reggae

    by the way, as much as it amazes me to say it, Rich Rifkin got it right in his comments on this thread, starting with the second one right out of the box

    –Richard Estes

  70. Vincente

    I don’t get this town I guess. We are talking about hate crimes and all you want to talk about is rap? To me this exemplifies the problem–you guys don’t get it. Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days. Or at least non-white shoes.

  71. Richard

    do the people here posting about how racial incidents in Davis are being caused by hip hop and trash culture realize how preposterous they look?

    how they confirm the suspicions of people around the region that Davis residents look for outside scapegoats to blame for the city’s history of racial turmoil instead examining the responsibility of their own citizens and institutions?

    how they confirm the long standing tendency of some residents to get angrier at people who point these things out, then the actual incidents themselves?

    Davis has a history of this sort of thing that predates hip hop, and, sadly, it will probably persist after hip hop is reduced to sub genre of music outside the pop mainstream, reduced to something akin to jazz or reggae

    by the way, as much as it amazes me to say it, Rich Rifkin got it right in his comments on this thread, starting with the second one right out of the box

    –Richard Estes

  72. Vincente

    I don’t get this town I guess. We are talking about hate crimes and all you want to talk about is rap? To me this exemplifies the problem–you guys don’t get it. Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days. Or at least non-white shoes.

  73. Richard

    do the people here posting about how racial incidents in Davis are being caused by hip hop and trash culture realize how preposterous they look?

    how they confirm the suspicions of people around the region that Davis residents look for outside scapegoats to blame for the city’s history of racial turmoil instead examining the responsibility of their own citizens and institutions?

    how they confirm the long standing tendency of some residents to get angrier at people who point these things out, then the actual incidents themselves?

    Davis has a history of this sort of thing that predates hip hop, and, sadly, it will probably persist after hip hop is reduced to sub genre of music outside the pop mainstream, reduced to something akin to jazz or reggae

    by the way, as much as it amazes me to say it, Rich Rifkin got it right in his comments on this thread, starting with the second one right out of the box

    –Richard Estes

  74. Vincente

    I don’t get this town I guess. We are talking about hate crimes and all you want to talk about is rap? To me this exemplifies the problem–you guys don’t get it. Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days. Or at least non-white shoes.

  75. Richard

    do the people here posting about how racial incidents in Davis are being caused by hip hop and trash culture realize how preposterous they look?

    how they confirm the suspicions of people around the region that Davis residents look for outside scapegoats to blame for the city’s history of racial turmoil instead examining the responsibility of their own citizens and institutions?

    how they confirm the long standing tendency of some residents to get angrier at people who point these things out, then the actual incidents themselves?

    Davis has a history of this sort of thing that predates hip hop, and, sadly, it will probably persist after hip hop is reduced to sub genre of music outside the pop mainstream, reduced to something akin to jazz or reggae

    by the way, as much as it amazes me to say it, Rich Rifkin got it right in his comments on this thread, starting with the second one right out of the box

    –Richard Estes

  76. Vincente

    I don’t get this town I guess. We are talking about hate crimes and all you want to talk about is rap? To me this exemplifies the problem–you guys don’t get it. Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days. Or at least non-white shoes.

  77. Anonymous

    anonymous 9:20 said…
    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

    I also am a parent in a mixed race family, and I do not think it inappropriate to describe a person as black, brown, white or yellow. A person’s skin color is a fact … just like hair and eye color. Other than extremes in height and weight, skin color is the single most obvious feature of humans. Racial prejudice is not exhibited when a child or adult notices that another child is a different color. Rather, racial prejudice is exhibited when some type of general stereotype is associated with skin color.

    I am not a long time Davis resident, but over the last 20 years, I have lived in 5 different cities in the southeast, northeast, deep south and west coast. In my experience, on a relative basis, Davis has very, very little “hate” crime. Kids everywhere in every town say harsh and ugly things about their peers. Most of that is not hate crime. It may not be how you want your kids to act or what you’d like for them to see, but true hate crime is much worse in the cities that I have inhabited.

    Hate crime is a concern any time it happens, and my comments are not intended to indicate a lack of concern about the issue generally. I just think we have many more important issues to deal with in Davis. It isn’t clear at all that these incidents were hate crimes or even racially motivated. Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst idealogues, but there is no news story here.

    By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.

  78. Anonymous

    anonymous 9:20 said…
    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

    I also am a parent in a mixed race family, and I do not think it inappropriate to describe a person as black, brown, white or yellow. A person’s skin color is a fact … just like hair and eye color. Other than extremes in height and weight, skin color is the single most obvious feature of humans. Racial prejudice is not exhibited when a child or adult notices that another child is a different color. Rather, racial prejudice is exhibited when some type of general stereotype is associated with skin color.

    I am not a long time Davis resident, but over the last 20 years, I have lived in 5 different cities in the southeast, northeast, deep south and west coast. In my experience, on a relative basis, Davis has very, very little “hate” crime. Kids everywhere in every town say harsh and ugly things about their peers. Most of that is not hate crime. It may not be how you want your kids to act or what you’d like for them to see, but true hate crime is much worse in the cities that I have inhabited.

    Hate crime is a concern any time it happens, and my comments are not intended to indicate a lack of concern about the issue generally. I just think we have many more important issues to deal with in Davis. It isn’t clear at all that these incidents were hate crimes or even racially motivated. Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst idealogues, but there is no news story here.

    By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.

  79. Anonymous

    anonymous 9:20 said…
    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

    I also am a parent in a mixed race family, and I do not think it inappropriate to describe a person as black, brown, white or yellow. A person’s skin color is a fact … just like hair and eye color. Other than extremes in height and weight, skin color is the single most obvious feature of humans. Racial prejudice is not exhibited when a child or adult notices that another child is a different color. Rather, racial prejudice is exhibited when some type of general stereotype is associated with skin color.

    I am not a long time Davis resident, but over the last 20 years, I have lived in 5 different cities in the southeast, northeast, deep south and west coast. In my experience, on a relative basis, Davis has very, very little “hate” crime. Kids everywhere in every town say harsh and ugly things about their peers. Most of that is not hate crime. It may not be how you want your kids to act or what you’d like for them to see, but true hate crime is much worse in the cities that I have inhabited.

    Hate crime is a concern any time it happens, and my comments are not intended to indicate a lack of concern about the issue generally. I just think we have many more important issues to deal with in Davis. It isn’t clear at all that these incidents were hate crimes or even racially motivated. Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst idealogues, but there is no news story here.

    By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.

  80. Anonymous

    anonymous 9:20 said…
    Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home. Last year, our son who is mixed race (black/white), came home from pre-school talking about brown, black and yellow kids. These were not terms he learned in our home, but rather labels he picked up from his peers at pre-school. Apparently, the indocrination starts early in some families, or worse, is just an ingrained part of daily conversations.

    I also am a parent in a mixed race family, and I do not think it inappropriate to describe a person as black, brown, white or yellow. A person’s skin color is a fact … just like hair and eye color. Other than extremes in height and weight, skin color is the single most obvious feature of humans. Racial prejudice is not exhibited when a child or adult notices that another child is a different color. Rather, racial prejudice is exhibited when some type of general stereotype is associated with skin color.

    I am not a long time Davis resident, but over the last 20 years, I have lived in 5 different cities in the southeast, northeast, deep south and west coast. In my experience, on a relative basis, Davis has very, very little “hate” crime. Kids everywhere in every town say harsh and ugly things about their peers. Most of that is not hate crime. It may not be how you want your kids to act or what you’d like for them to see, but true hate crime is much worse in the cities that I have inhabited.

    Hate crime is a concern any time it happens, and my comments are not intended to indicate a lack of concern about the issue generally. I just think we have many more important issues to deal with in Davis. It isn’t clear at all that these incidents were hate crimes or even racially motivated. Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst idealogues, but there is no news story here.

    By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.

  81. don shor

    I was responding to this statement in the third post:
    “Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home.”

    Nobody says hip hop music caused racist graffiti in Davis. That is an absurd reduction of the points that have been made. In fact, Richard is being inconsistent in his application of the concept of collective responsibility. In Richard’s view, hip hop and rap, apparently, can’t be held responsible for any effect on values and behavior, but the parents and school district of Davis are responsible for racist actions by individuals.

    NWA fan, I’m sure my kids would agree with you. I don’t advocate censorship. But I do think that one of my jobs as a parent is to express my disapproval about rap lyrics and confederate flags.

    Sorry, Vincente, I obviously can’t directly experience what it is like to be African American. The closest I can come is some ancestral connection to discrimination (I’m probably one of the only people on this blog whose last name is in Wikipedia). Please understand that I don’t condone the graffiti, and that wasn’t the point of my posts. I am unsure what those who are so upset about this incident think really happened there, since we have very few facts and it has been indicated the perpetrators weren’t actually white, and what they want the community to do about it. I consider the issue of racism and the other ‘isms’ to be pretty broad and not very amenable to community action. And unlike Richard Estes, I suspect racism and discrimination is no more or less severe in Davis than in most other communities.

  82. don shor

    I was responding to this statement in the third post:
    “Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home.”

    Nobody says hip hop music caused racist graffiti in Davis. That is an absurd reduction of the points that have been made. In fact, Richard is being inconsistent in his application of the concept of collective responsibility. In Richard’s view, hip hop and rap, apparently, can’t be held responsible for any effect on values and behavior, but the parents and school district of Davis are responsible for racist actions by individuals.

    NWA fan, I’m sure my kids would agree with you. I don’t advocate censorship. But I do think that one of my jobs as a parent is to express my disapproval about rap lyrics and confederate flags.

    Sorry, Vincente, I obviously can’t directly experience what it is like to be African American. The closest I can come is some ancestral connection to discrimination (I’m probably one of the only people on this blog whose last name is in Wikipedia). Please understand that I don’t condone the graffiti, and that wasn’t the point of my posts. I am unsure what those who are so upset about this incident think really happened there, since we have very few facts and it has been indicated the perpetrators weren’t actually white, and what they want the community to do about it. I consider the issue of racism and the other ‘isms’ to be pretty broad and not very amenable to community action. And unlike Richard Estes, I suspect racism and discrimination is no more or less severe in Davis than in most other communities.

  83. don shor

    I was responding to this statement in the third post:
    “Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home.”

    Nobody says hip hop music caused racist graffiti in Davis. That is an absurd reduction of the points that have been made. In fact, Richard is being inconsistent in his application of the concept of collective responsibility. In Richard’s view, hip hop and rap, apparently, can’t be held responsible for any effect on values and behavior, but the parents and school district of Davis are responsible for racist actions by individuals.

    NWA fan, I’m sure my kids would agree with you. I don’t advocate censorship. But I do think that one of my jobs as a parent is to express my disapproval about rap lyrics and confederate flags.

    Sorry, Vincente, I obviously can’t directly experience what it is like to be African American. The closest I can come is some ancestral connection to discrimination (I’m probably one of the only people on this blog whose last name is in Wikipedia). Please understand that I don’t condone the graffiti, and that wasn’t the point of my posts. I am unsure what those who are so upset about this incident think really happened there, since we have very few facts and it has been indicated the perpetrators weren’t actually white, and what they want the community to do about it. I consider the issue of racism and the other ‘isms’ to be pretty broad and not very amenable to community action. And unlike Richard Estes, I suspect racism and discrimination is no more or less severe in Davis than in most other communities.

  84. don shor

    I was responding to this statement in the third post:
    “Yes, I think it’s racism, and it is learned at home.”

    Nobody says hip hop music caused racist graffiti in Davis. That is an absurd reduction of the points that have been made. In fact, Richard is being inconsistent in his application of the concept of collective responsibility. In Richard’s view, hip hop and rap, apparently, can’t be held responsible for any effect on values and behavior, but the parents and school district of Davis are responsible for racist actions by individuals.

    NWA fan, I’m sure my kids would agree with you. I don’t advocate censorship. But I do think that one of my jobs as a parent is to express my disapproval about rap lyrics and confederate flags.

    Sorry, Vincente, I obviously can’t directly experience what it is like to be African American. The closest I can come is some ancestral connection to discrimination (I’m probably one of the only people on this blog whose last name is in Wikipedia). Please understand that I don’t condone the graffiti, and that wasn’t the point of my posts. I am unsure what those who are so upset about this incident think really happened there, since we have very few facts and it has been indicated the perpetrators weren’t actually white, and what they want the community to do about it. I consider the issue of racism and the other ‘isms’ to be pretty broad and not very amenable to community action. And unlike Richard Estes, I suspect racism and discrimination is no more or less severe in Davis than in most other communities.

  85. don shor

    “…not very amenable to community action.”
    That isn’t really what I meant to say. There are useful things communities can do (Jann and Jonathan have given examples in their columns). I don’t think a specific community response is going to be very productive for an incident such as this one. I question whether the degree of indignation shown here is proportional.
    The response to the major graffiti/vandalism incident a few years ago was very helpful to the community.

  86. don shor

    “…not very amenable to community action.”
    That isn’t really what I meant to say. There are useful things communities can do (Jann and Jonathan have given examples in their columns). I don’t think a specific community response is going to be very productive for an incident such as this one. I question whether the degree of indignation shown here is proportional.
    The response to the major graffiti/vandalism incident a few years ago was very helpful to the community.

  87. don shor

    “…not very amenable to community action.”
    That isn’t really what I meant to say. There are useful things communities can do (Jann and Jonathan have given examples in their columns). I don’t think a specific community response is going to be very productive for an incident such as this one. I question whether the degree of indignation shown here is proportional.
    The response to the major graffiti/vandalism incident a few years ago was very helpful to the community.

  88. don shor

    “…not very amenable to community action.”
    That isn’t really what I meant to say. There are useful things communities can do (Jann and Jonathan have given examples in their columns). I don’t think a specific community response is going to be very productive for an incident such as this one. I question whether the degree of indignation shown here is proportional.
    The response to the major graffiti/vandalism incident a few years ago was very helpful to the community.

  89. Chasing Amy

    “Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst ideologues, but there is no news story here.”

    That fact that you think this is not a news story and that the community should not be concerned, is in and of itself concerning and proves our point.

    The angst created on this blog? How about the “angst” in the community from the victims that have had to deal with:

    Hate crimes against Blacks?
    Hate crimes against Jews?
    Hate crimes against Muslims?
    Hate crimes against a gay man?
    Hate crimes against Asians?

    Please take your head out of the sand. I know it may be quite comfortable not addressing these issues, but they really need to be addressed. If not, they fester.

    “By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.”

    I respect Don, however, he is too narrowly focused in his approach.

    There is no room for “supposed” “even-handed, thoughtful approaches” when a hate crime has been committed. Hate crimes must be called on what they are “hate crimes” and must be responded to quickly. To not do this is giving a green light to the perpetrators.

    And, I agree with Richard, it only adds to the long history associated with Davis.

    What can I say, except that this is quite sad and eye opening to read people’s comments.

  90. Chasing Amy

    “Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst ideologues, but there is no news story here.”

    That fact that you think this is not a news story and that the community should not be concerned, is in and of itself concerning and proves our point.

    The angst created on this blog? How about the “angst” in the community from the victims that have had to deal with:

    Hate crimes against Blacks?
    Hate crimes against Jews?
    Hate crimes against Muslims?
    Hate crimes against a gay man?
    Hate crimes against Asians?

    Please take your head out of the sand. I know it may be quite comfortable not addressing these issues, but they really need to be addressed. If not, they fester.

    “By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.”

    I respect Don, however, he is too narrowly focused in his approach.

    There is no room for “supposed” “even-handed, thoughtful approaches” when a hate crime has been committed. Hate crimes must be called on what they are “hate crimes” and must be responded to quickly. To not do this is giving a green light to the perpetrators.

    And, I agree with Richard, it only adds to the long history associated with Davis.

    What can I say, except that this is quite sad and eye opening to read people’s comments.

  91. Chasing Amy

    “Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst ideologues, but there is no news story here.”

    That fact that you think this is not a news story and that the community should not be concerned, is in and of itself concerning and proves our point.

    The angst created on this blog? How about the “angst” in the community from the victims that have had to deal with:

    Hate crimes against Blacks?
    Hate crimes against Jews?
    Hate crimes against Muslims?
    Hate crimes against a gay man?
    Hate crimes against Asians?

    Please take your head out of the sand. I know it may be quite comfortable not addressing these issues, but they really need to be addressed. If not, they fester.

    “By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.”

    I respect Don, however, he is too narrowly focused in his approach.

    There is no room for “supposed” “even-handed, thoughtful approaches” when a hate crime has been committed. Hate crimes must be called on what they are “hate crimes” and must be responded to quickly. To not do this is giving a green light to the perpetrators.

    And, I agree with Richard, it only adds to the long history associated with Davis.

    What can I say, except that this is quite sad and eye opening to read people’s comments.

  92. Chasing Amy

    “Graffiti on a house or wall does not deserve front page Davis Enterprise coverage. The angst created in this blog over this issue is good for blog readership and spirited debate amongst ideologues, but there is no news story here.”

    That fact that you think this is not a news story and that the community should not be concerned, is in and of itself concerning and proves our point.

    The angst created on this blog? How about the “angst” in the community from the victims that have had to deal with:

    Hate crimes against Blacks?
    Hate crimes against Jews?
    Hate crimes against Muslims?
    Hate crimes against a gay man?
    Hate crimes against Asians?

    Please take your head out of the sand. I know it may be quite comfortable not addressing these issues, but they really need to be addressed. If not, they fester.

    “By the way, I think Don Shor has a pretty good handle on this issue. The rest of us should learn from his even-handed, thoughtful approach.”

    I respect Don, however, he is too narrowly focused in his approach.

    There is no room for “supposed” “even-handed, thoughtful approaches” when a hate crime has been committed. Hate crimes must be called on what they are “hate crimes” and must be responded to quickly. To not do this is giving a green light to the perpetrators.

    And, I agree with Richard, it only adds to the long history associated with Davis.

    What can I say, except that this is quite sad and eye opening to read people’s comments.

  93. Josh

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Wow. This is the most ignorant and uninformed statement I’ve heard in years (and I spent part of last year in Woodland).

    Ah, Davis, finally showing your true colors (or lack thereof).

    The sad part is, Don Shor seems to have no idea how bad he is at parenting with his “cover the eyes and ears” routine.

    So why don’t we just let it all out?

    Say it after me:

    “We love African-Americans in Davis!”

    Addendum: “as long as they don’t play their nigger music!”

    Better?

  94. Josh

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Wow. This is the most ignorant and uninformed statement I’ve heard in years (and I spent part of last year in Woodland).

    Ah, Davis, finally showing your true colors (or lack thereof).

    The sad part is, Don Shor seems to have no idea how bad he is at parenting with his “cover the eyes and ears” routine.

    So why don’t we just let it all out?

    Say it after me:

    “We love African-Americans in Davis!”

    Addendum: “as long as they don’t play their nigger music!”

    Better?

  95. Josh

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Wow. This is the most ignorant and uninformed statement I’ve heard in years (and I spent part of last year in Woodland).

    Ah, Davis, finally showing your true colors (or lack thereof).

    The sad part is, Don Shor seems to have no idea how bad he is at parenting with his “cover the eyes and ears” routine.

    So why don’t we just let it all out?

    Say it after me:

    “We love African-Americans in Davis!”

    Addendum: “as long as they don’t play their nigger music!”

    Better?

  96. Josh

    “I am just as disgusted by rap and hiphop music as I am by the confederate flag.”

    Wow. This is the most ignorant and uninformed statement I’ve heard in years (and I spent part of last year in Woodland).

    Ah, Davis, finally showing your true colors (or lack thereof).

    The sad part is, Don Shor seems to have no idea how bad he is at parenting with his “cover the eyes and ears” routine.

    So why don’t we just let it all out?

    Say it after me:

    “We love African-Americans in Davis!”

    Addendum: “as long as they don’t play their nigger music!”

    Better?

  97. darkside

    “Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days.”

    This from a person who has no black heritage. What a jerk. Who are you to tell other people what their experience should be to express an opinion, Vincente?

  98. darkside

    “Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days.”

    This from a person who has no black heritage. What a jerk. Who are you to tell other people what their experience should be to express an opinion, Vincente?

  99. darkside

    “Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days.”

    This from a person who has no black heritage. What a jerk. Who are you to tell other people what their experience should be to express an opinion, Vincente?

  100. darkside

    “Don Shor, I love you man, but you need to live inside some black shoes for a few days.”

    This from a person who has no black heritage. What a jerk. Who are you to tell other people what their experience should be to express an opinion, Vincente?

  101. Anonymous

    Anonymous 10:00 pm. The point I was trying to make about our 4 year old son talking about skin color, is that why would he notice or be talking about it? Who looks at an Asian person and thinks of “yellow”? Not me, that’s for sure. It’s a racial stereotype, not a coloric observations

  102. Anonymous

    Anonymous 10:00 pm. The point I was trying to make about our 4 year old son talking about skin color, is that why would he notice or be talking about it? Who looks at an Asian person and thinks of “yellow”? Not me, that’s for sure. It’s a racial stereotype, not a coloric observations

  103. Anonymous

    Anonymous 10:00 pm. The point I was trying to make about our 4 year old son talking about skin color, is that why would he notice or be talking about it? Who looks at an Asian person and thinks of “yellow”? Not me, that’s for sure. It’s a racial stereotype, not a coloric observations

  104. Anonymous

    Anonymous 10:00 pm. The point I was trying to make about our 4 year old son talking about skin color, is that why would he notice or be talking about it? Who looks at an Asian person and thinks of “yellow”? Not me, that’s for sure. It’s a racial stereotype, not a coloric observations

  105. 無名 - wu ming

    the important part of actually dealing with this incident and whatever roots it may have seems to me to lie with reconciling the people involved. make the kids sit down with one another, restorative justice style, and work out what the problem was, how the curses affected each other, etc. for all the blather about music and pop culture, the important thing is to work to get the people who are at the center of this to see each other as human beings, and understand the impact of such acts on each other.

    at any rate, it is the racist reality of how our society disvalues black people that gives those epithets that charge, gives them the power to hurt and threaten in the way that they do. it stings so because it is an affirmation of a dark truth that both target and speaker know, that to be black is to be something low, something bad.

    until that thing is dealt with in society at large, no amount of attempts to ban the word will succeed. even if you did ban the word, the soul of the epithet would lurk behind the surface no matter what euphamism replaced it, because the inequality, the prejudice, and the disparity of power still exist in our society.

    pointing fingers at rap music and clucking tongues at bad family background misses the point entirely. rap is a product of the same wounded society, not a cause, really. and as someone pointed out above (and as q tip of tribe called quest put it eloquently enough in sucka niggas a decade or two ago), sometimes people reclaim epithets to try and take the sting out of them as well.

    it’s more complicated than this discussion lets on, but at any rate it is beside the point, which ought to be trying to work against the all too easy pattern of denying each other’s humanity by reconciling those that come to such conflict.

  106. 無名 - wu ming

    the important part of actually dealing with this incident and whatever roots it may have seems to me to lie with reconciling the people involved. make the kids sit down with one another, restorative justice style, and work out what the problem was, how the curses affected each other, etc. for all the blather about music and pop culture, the important thing is to work to get the people who are at the center of this to see each other as human beings, and understand the impact of such acts on each other.

    at any rate, it is the racist reality of how our society disvalues black people that gives those epithets that charge, gives them the power to hurt and threaten in the way that they do. it stings so because it is an affirmation of a dark truth that both target and speaker know, that to be black is to be something low, something bad.

    until that thing is dealt with in society at large, no amount of attempts to ban the word will succeed. even if you did ban the word, the soul of the epithet would lurk behind the surface no matter what euphamism replaced it, because the inequality, the prejudice, and the disparity of power still exist in our society.

    pointing fingers at rap music and clucking tongues at bad family background misses the point entirely. rap is a product of the same wounded society, not a cause, really. and as someone pointed out above (and as q tip of tribe called quest put it eloquently enough in sucka niggas a decade or two ago), sometimes people reclaim epithets to try and take the sting out of them as well.

    it’s more complicated than this discussion lets on, but at any rate it is beside the point, which ought to be trying to work against the all too easy pattern of denying each other’s humanity by reconciling those that come to such conflict.

  107. 無名 - wu ming

    the important part of actually dealing with this incident and whatever roots it may have seems to me to lie with reconciling the people involved. make the kids sit down with one another, restorative justice style, and work out what the problem was, how the curses affected each other, etc. for all the blather about music and pop culture, the important thing is to work to get the people who are at the center of this to see each other as human beings, and understand the impact of such acts on each other.

    at any rate, it is the racist reality of how our society disvalues black people that gives those epithets that charge, gives them the power to hurt and threaten in the way that they do. it stings so because it is an affirmation of a dark truth that both target and speaker know, that to be black is to be something low, something bad.

    until that thing is dealt with in society at large, no amount of attempts to ban the word will succeed. even if you did ban the word, the soul of the epithet would lurk behind the surface no matter what euphamism replaced it, because the inequality, the prejudice, and the disparity of power still exist in our society.

    pointing fingers at rap music and clucking tongues at bad family background misses the point entirely. rap is a product of the same wounded society, not a cause, really. and as someone pointed out above (and as q tip of tribe called quest put it eloquently enough in sucka niggas a decade or two ago), sometimes people reclaim epithets to try and take the sting out of them as well.

    it’s more complicated than this discussion lets on, but at any rate it is beside the point, which ought to be trying to work against the all too easy pattern of denying each other’s humanity by reconciling those that come to such conflict.

  108. 無名 - wu ming

    the important part of actually dealing with this incident and whatever roots it may have seems to me to lie with reconciling the people involved. make the kids sit down with one another, restorative justice style, and work out what the problem was, how the curses affected each other, etc. for all the blather about music and pop culture, the important thing is to work to get the people who are at the center of this to see each other as human beings, and understand the impact of such acts on each other.

    at any rate, it is the racist reality of how our society disvalues black people that gives those epithets that charge, gives them the power to hurt and threaten in the way that they do. it stings so because it is an affirmation of a dark truth that both target and speaker know, that to be black is to be something low, something bad.

    until that thing is dealt with in society at large, no amount of attempts to ban the word will succeed. even if you did ban the word, the soul of the epithet would lurk behind the surface no matter what euphamism replaced it, because the inequality, the prejudice, and the disparity of power still exist in our society.

    pointing fingers at rap music and clucking tongues at bad family background misses the point entirely. rap is a product of the same wounded society, not a cause, really. and as someone pointed out above (and as q tip of tribe called quest put it eloquently enough in sucka niggas a decade or two ago), sometimes people reclaim epithets to try and take the sting out of them as well.

    it’s more complicated than this discussion lets on, but at any rate it is beside the point, which ought to be trying to work against the all too easy pattern of denying each other’s humanity by reconciling those that come to such conflict.

  109. Anonymous

    man you gotta love davis. the last time I saw hate crimes being blamed on hip-hop was on the O’Riley show. Anyone who at all thinks the proper response to spray reading “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” is to blame hip-hop, should be put under for good. When people say rap is responsible, they basically mean blacks are responsible. If you’re going to blame blacks for graffiti saying “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” you may as well blame blacks for slavery, or a woman for getting raped.

  110. Anonymous

    man you gotta love davis. the last time I saw hate crimes being blamed on hip-hop was on the O’Riley show. Anyone who at all thinks the proper response to spray reading “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” is to blame hip-hop, should be put under for good. When people say rap is responsible, they basically mean blacks are responsible. If you’re going to blame blacks for graffiti saying “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” you may as well blame blacks for slavery, or a woman for getting raped.

  111. Anonymous

    man you gotta love davis. the last time I saw hate crimes being blamed on hip-hop was on the O’Riley show. Anyone who at all thinks the proper response to spray reading “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” is to blame hip-hop, should be put under for good. When people say rap is responsible, they basically mean blacks are responsible. If you’re going to blame blacks for graffiti saying “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” you may as well blame blacks for slavery, or a woman for getting raped.

  112. Anonymous

    man you gotta love davis. the last time I saw hate crimes being blamed on hip-hop was on the O’Riley show. Anyone who at all thinks the proper response to spray reading “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” is to blame hip-hop, should be put under for good. When people say rap is responsible, they basically mean blacks are responsible. If you’re going to blame blacks for graffiti saying “KKK FUCK NIGGERS” you may as well blame blacks for slavery, or a woman for getting raped.

  113. SAH

    Things might improve if there was a complete postmortem on each of these cases. Currently there is an uproar as a result of an incident, but that is where it is left and nothing seems to be learned. In a way some of the behavior might be encouraged by the uproar – teenagers try to push buttons and they know they get us all riled up if they do this stuff.

    Problems with postmortems are the slow pace of Justice and the rights of privacy which might limit the flow of information. The important information would be –
    What was the conclusion of the final police investigation (investigations take time)?, what was the position of the defendants? – why did they do it?, What did the court decide? and What was the outcome?

    Ideally you would take the information back to the high school and in some sort of forum demonstrate how not to resolve differences. The incident being talked about involved some sort of dispute between several or several groups of students – how did that dispute get so far out of hand? and what could have been done differently?

    The downside of racist behavior (along with things like drunk driving, drug abuse, underage sex) must be driven home frequently and in a way teenagers understand. Specific examples help.

  114. SAH

    Things might improve if there was a complete postmortem on each of these cases. Currently there is an uproar as a result of an incident, but that is where it is left and nothing seems to be learned. In a way some of the behavior might be encouraged by the uproar – teenagers try to push buttons and they know they get us all riled up if they do this stuff.

    Problems with postmortems are the slow pace of Justice and the rights of privacy which might limit the flow of information. The important information would be –
    What was the conclusion of the final police investigation (investigations take time)?, what was the position of the defendants? – why did they do it?, What did the court decide? and What was the outcome?

    Ideally you would take the information back to the high school and in some sort of forum demonstrate how not to resolve differences. The incident being talked about involved some sort of dispute between several or several groups of students – how did that dispute get so far out of hand? and what could have been done differently?

    The downside of racist behavior (along with things like drunk driving, drug abuse, underage sex) must be driven home frequently and in a way teenagers understand. Specific examples help.

  115. SAH

    Things might improve if there was a complete postmortem on each of these cases. Currently there is an uproar as a result of an incident, but that is where it is left and nothing seems to be learned. In a way some of the behavior might be encouraged by the uproar – teenagers try to push buttons and they know they get us all riled up if they do this stuff.

    Problems with postmortems are the slow pace of Justice and the rights of privacy which might limit the flow of information. The important information would be –
    What was the conclusion of the final police investigation (investigations take time)?, what was the position of the defendants? – why did they do it?, What did the court decide? and What was the outcome?

    Ideally you would take the information back to the high school and in some sort of forum demonstrate how not to resolve differences. The incident being talked about involved some sort of dispute between several or several groups of students – how did that dispute get so far out of hand? and what could have been done differently?

    The downside of racist behavior (along with things like drunk driving, drug abuse, underage sex) must be driven home frequently and in a way teenagers understand. Specific examples help.

  116. SAH

    Things might improve if there was a complete postmortem on each of these cases. Currently there is an uproar as a result of an incident, but that is where it is left and nothing seems to be learned. In a way some of the behavior might be encouraged by the uproar – teenagers try to push buttons and they know they get us all riled up if they do this stuff.

    Problems with postmortems are the slow pace of Justice and the rights of privacy which might limit the flow of information. The important information would be –
    What was the conclusion of the final police investigation (investigations take time)?, what was the position of the defendants? – why did they do it?, What did the court decide? and What was the outcome?

    Ideally you would take the information back to the high school and in some sort of forum demonstrate how not to resolve differences. The incident being talked about involved some sort of dispute between several or several groups of students – how did that dispute get so far out of hand? and what could have been done differently?

    The downside of racist behavior (along with things like drunk driving, drug abuse, underage sex) must be driven home frequently and in a way teenagers understand. Specific examples help.

  117. Mike

    When I was a kid “Nigger” was such a bad word that your couldn’t imagine using it. It meant something awful.

    Today, its nothing. Sorry, but it is so common that it is almost meaningless. What is really funny is who uses the term- not just the black kids talking to each other… no the funny ones are the white kids at Davis High School. They call each other “Nigga” all the time. Particularly the boys in sports. They have no idea that they sound like complete pale-faced morons, but they say it all the time. Davis is so utterly devoid of race hate that the kids have no idea what it means except that “Nigga” is cool. They sag their pants, turn their ballcaps, make gang signs they don’t understand and toss their pricey educations in the toilet with grammar like “Sup nigga? Hit it wit sum hos tonight?”

    Girls call each other “Hos” and “Bitches” and they do it as a compliment. it is absolutely common for a girl to greet their friends as “Niggas” and “Biatches” etc.

    If its rap lyrics that started it, okay, get over it. It exists. “Hate speech” is essentially a dead subject. They have no idea what they are talking about anymore and it is so common that it will require a big-dose of Davis Thought Police to ever try to regulate it away…

    This entire thread makes it pretty clear that the people involved don’t listen to teenagers.

  118. Mike

    When I was a kid “Nigger” was such a bad word that your couldn’t imagine using it. It meant something awful.

    Today, its nothing. Sorry, but it is so common that it is almost meaningless. What is really funny is who uses the term- not just the black kids talking to each other… no the funny ones are the white kids at Davis High School. They call each other “Nigga” all the time. Particularly the boys in sports. They have no idea that they sound like complete pale-faced morons, but they say it all the time. Davis is so utterly devoid of race hate that the kids have no idea what it means except that “Nigga” is cool. They sag their pants, turn their ballcaps, make gang signs they don’t understand and toss their pricey educations in the toilet with grammar like “Sup nigga? Hit it wit sum hos tonight?”

    Girls call each other “Hos” and “Bitches” and they do it as a compliment. it is absolutely common for a girl to greet their friends as “Niggas” and “Biatches” etc.

    If its rap lyrics that started it, okay, get over it. It exists. “Hate speech” is essentially a dead subject. They have no idea what they are talking about anymore and it is so common that it will require a big-dose of Davis Thought Police to ever try to regulate it away…

    This entire thread makes it pretty clear that the people involved don’t listen to teenagers.

  119. Mike

    When I was a kid “Nigger” was such a bad word that your couldn’t imagine using it. It meant something awful.

    Today, its nothing. Sorry, but it is so common that it is almost meaningless. What is really funny is who uses the term- not just the black kids talking to each other… no the funny ones are the white kids at Davis High School. They call each other “Nigga” all the time. Particularly the boys in sports. They have no idea that they sound like complete pale-faced morons, but they say it all the time. Davis is so utterly devoid of race hate that the kids have no idea what it means except that “Nigga” is cool. They sag their pants, turn their ballcaps, make gang signs they don’t understand and toss their pricey educations in the toilet with grammar like “Sup nigga? Hit it wit sum hos tonight?”

    Girls call each other “Hos” and “Bitches” and they do it as a compliment. it is absolutely common for a girl to greet their friends as “Niggas” and “Biatches” etc.

    If its rap lyrics that started it, okay, get over it. It exists. “Hate speech” is essentially a dead subject. They have no idea what they are talking about anymore and it is so common that it will require a big-dose of Davis Thought Police to ever try to regulate it away…

    This entire thread makes it pretty clear that the people involved don’t listen to teenagers.

  120. Mike

    When I was a kid “Nigger” was such a bad word that your couldn’t imagine using it. It meant something awful.

    Today, its nothing. Sorry, but it is so common that it is almost meaningless. What is really funny is who uses the term- not just the black kids talking to each other… no the funny ones are the white kids at Davis High School. They call each other “Nigga” all the time. Particularly the boys in sports. They have no idea that they sound like complete pale-faced morons, but they say it all the time. Davis is so utterly devoid of race hate that the kids have no idea what it means except that “Nigga” is cool. They sag their pants, turn their ballcaps, make gang signs they don’t understand and toss their pricey educations in the toilet with grammar like “Sup nigga? Hit it wit sum hos tonight?”

    Girls call each other “Hos” and “Bitches” and they do it as a compliment. it is absolutely common for a girl to greet their friends as “Niggas” and “Biatches” etc.

    If its rap lyrics that started it, okay, get over it. It exists. “Hate speech” is essentially a dead subject. They have no idea what they are talking about anymore and it is so common that it will require a big-dose of Davis Thought Police to ever try to regulate it away…

    This entire thread makes it pretty clear that the people involved don’t listen to teenagers.

  121. Bianchi

    Can’t people just accept that it was a hate crime? A call for greater attention to hate crimes in Davis is reasonable because the frequency of those actions is clearly unsettling to residents. Why argue AGAINST discussing/promoting an increase in the toleration if not nurturing of peoples’ differences? I don’t understand how people get so distracted from the core meaning of what happened and what must happen as a result.

    If my mother and I were to read about a hate crime in the news paper, I would hope that she would ask me how I felt about it. If I was a teacher, I would incorporate it into my English, Journalism, or American History lesson. If I was Ludacris, I would go on singing ridiculous songs. If I were playing “the blame game” and pointing at music, I would be ignorant of the fact that degrading music is not an invention of X or Y generation. And that’s never likely to change.

    Stop blaming people, music, or pop culture for things that your kids probably didn’t do and probably weren’t effected by. Just recognize that hate exists, it can’t be stomped out, but at least people can express their anti-hate a bit more in response.

    When “FAG” was spray painted on the side of Freeborn Hall last year in various ways, it made the front page of the California Aggie above the fold. It also caused a lot of discussion among school officials and student politicians. Now did faculty members start blaming anti-gay hate from Televangelists and death-metal songs? Probably not. In fact, most faculty probably didn’t do anything, but at least they knew it happened.

    Lastly, whoever was fussing about “kids these days and their back-of-the-bus-blowjobs,” you do realize you’re echoing every parent-generation that came before you, correct? Extremes may change their methods, but they will always be extremes. No matter what school you send your kids to, one sophomore is bound to get preggers. Frown on it if you want, but I like to think of it as adding diversity. 🙂

  122. Bianchi

    Can’t people just accept that it was a hate crime? A call for greater attention to hate crimes in Davis is reasonable because the frequency of those actions is clearly unsettling to residents. Why argue AGAINST discussing/promoting an increase in the toleration if not nurturing of peoples’ differences? I don’t understand how people get so distracted from the core meaning of what happened and what must happen as a result.

    If my mother and I were to read about a hate crime in the news paper, I would hope that she would ask me how I felt about it. If I was a teacher, I would incorporate it into my English, Journalism, or American History lesson. If I was Ludacris, I would go on singing ridiculous songs. If I were playing “the blame game” and pointing at music, I would be ignorant of the fact that degrading music is not an invention of X or Y generation. And that’s never likely to change.

    Stop blaming people, music, or pop culture for things that your kids probably didn’t do and probably weren’t effected by. Just recognize that hate exists, it can’t be stomped out, but at least people can express their anti-hate a bit more in response.

    When “FAG” was spray painted on the side of Freeborn Hall last year in various ways, it made the front page of the California Aggie above the fold. It also caused a lot of discussion among school officials and student politicians. Now did faculty members start blaming anti-gay hate from Televangelists and death-metal songs? Probably not. In fact, most faculty probably didn’t do anything, but at least they knew it happened.

    Lastly, whoever was fussing about “kids these days and their back-of-the-bus-blowjobs,” you do realize you’re echoing every parent-generation that came before you, correct? Extremes may change their methods, but they will always be extremes. No matter what school you send your kids to, one sophomore is bound to get preggers. Frown on it if you want, but I like to think of it as adding diversity. 🙂

  123. Bianchi

    Can’t people just accept that it was a hate crime? A call for greater attention to hate crimes in Davis is reasonable because the frequency of those actions is clearly unsettling to residents. Why argue AGAINST discussing/promoting an increase in the toleration if not nurturing of peoples’ differences? I don’t understand how people get so distracted from the core meaning of what happened and what must happen as a result.

    If my mother and I were to read about a hate crime in the news paper, I would hope that she would ask me how I felt about it. If I was a teacher, I would incorporate it into my English, Journalism, or American History lesson. If I was Ludacris, I would go on singing ridiculous songs. If I were playing “the blame game” and pointing at music, I would be ignorant of the fact that degrading music is not an invention of X or Y generation. And that’s never likely to change.

    Stop blaming people, music, or pop culture for things that your kids probably didn’t do and probably weren’t effected by. Just recognize that hate exists, it can’t be stomped out, but at least people can express their anti-hate a bit more in response.

    When “FAG” was spray painted on the side of Freeborn Hall last year in various ways, it made the front page of the California Aggie above the fold. It also caused a lot of discussion among school officials and student politicians. Now did faculty members start blaming anti-gay hate from Televangelists and death-metal songs? Probably not. In fact, most faculty probably didn’t do anything, but at least they knew it happened.

    Lastly, whoever was fussing about “kids these days and their back-of-the-bus-blowjobs,” you do realize you’re echoing every parent-generation that came before you, correct? Extremes may change their methods, but they will always be extremes. No matter what school you send your kids to, one sophomore is bound to get preggers. Frown on it if you want, but I like to think of it as adding diversity. 🙂

  124. Bianchi

    Can’t people just accept that it was a hate crime? A call for greater attention to hate crimes in Davis is reasonable because the frequency of those actions is clearly unsettling to residents. Why argue AGAINST discussing/promoting an increase in the toleration if not nurturing of peoples’ differences? I don’t understand how people get so distracted from the core meaning of what happened and what must happen as a result.

    If my mother and I were to read about a hate crime in the news paper, I would hope that she would ask me how I felt about it. If I was a teacher, I would incorporate it into my English, Journalism, or American History lesson. If I was Ludacris, I would go on singing ridiculous songs. If I were playing “the blame game” and pointing at music, I would be ignorant of the fact that degrading music is not an invention of X or Y generation. And that’s never likely to change.

    Stop blaming people, music, or pop culture for things that your kids probably didn’t do and probably weren’t effected by. Just recognize that hate exists, it can’t be stomped out, but at least people can express their anti-hate a bit more in response.

    When “FAG” was spray painted on the side of Freeborn Hall last year in various ways, it made the front page of the California Aggie above the fold. It also caused a lot of discussion among school officials and student politicians. Now did faculty members start blaming anti-gay hate from Televangelists and death-metal songs? Probably not. In fact, most faculty probably didn’t do anything, but at least they knew it happened.

    Lastly, whoever was fussing about “kids these days and their back-of-the-bus-blowjobs,” you do realize you’re echoing every parent-generation that came before you, correct? Extremes may change their methods, but they will always be extremes. No matter what school you send your kids to, one sophomore is bound to get preggers. Frown on it if you want, but I like to think of it as adding diversity. 🙂

  125. Anonymous

    Mike really does have their rhetoric down pat but the base level of the vocabulary used today and the ignorance it represents doesn’t mean that it should be tolerated. As I like to tell the kids, just because you bought the CD doesn’t mean you own the words. Teaching young people the difference between the media and reality is as important today as it was when Elvis the Pelvis had to be shown on TV from the waist up.

    But all this cultural nonsense is truly irrelevent, writing “KKK …..” or anything else on another persons home is not acceptable behavior. However you want to explain it away; hate crime, social tensions, stupid teen age pranks, rap music or hip hop inspired its still not acceptable. I hope that the people responsible get the appropriate punishment which probably means restitution, community service and counseling. The behavior modification should be severe enough that they understand why it is wrong and to not want to do it again. The community should want the behavior addressed with measured and appropriate justice. All the rest of this discussion misses the point.

    Ron

  126. Anonymous

    Mike really does have their rhetoric down pat but the base level of the vocabulary used today and the ignorance it represents doesn’t mean that it should be tolerated. As I like to tell the kids, just because you bought the CD doesn’t mean you own the words. Teaching young people the difference between the media and reality is as important today as it was when Elvis the Pelvis had to be shown on TV from the waist up.

    But all this cultural nonsense is truly irrelevent, writing “KKK …..” or anything else on another persons home is not acceptable behavior. However you want to explain it away; hate crime, social tensions, stupid teen age pranks, rap music or hip hop inspired its still not acceptable. I hope that the people responsible get the appropriate punishment which probably means restitution, community service and counseling. The behavior modification should be severe enough that they understand why it is wrong and to not want to do it again. The community should want the behavior addressed with measured and appropriate justice. All the rest of this discussion misses the point.

    Ron

  127. Anonymous

    Mike really does have their rhetoric down pat but the base level of the vocabulary used today and the ignorance it represents doesn’t mean that it should be tolerated. As I like to tell the kids, just because you bought the CD doesn’t mean you own the words. Teaching young people the difference between the media and reality is as important today as it was when Elvis the Pelvis had to be shown on TV from the waist up.

    But all this cultural nonsense is truly irrelevent, writing “KKK …..” or anything else on another persons home is not acceptable behavior. However you want to explain it away; hate crime, social tensions, stupid teen age pranks, rap music or hip hop inspired its still not acceptable. I hope that the people responsible get the appropriate punishment which probably means restitution, community service and counseling. The behavior modification should be severe enough that they understand why it is wrong and to not want to do it again. The community should want the behavior addressed with measured and appropriate justice. All the rest of this discussion misses the point.

    Ron

  128. Anonymous

    Mike really does have their rhetoric down pat but the base level of the vocabulary used today and the ignorance it represents doesn’t mean that it should be tolerated. As I like to tell the kids, just because you bought the CD doesn’t mean you own the words. Teaching young people the difference between the media and reality is as important today as it was when Elvis the Pelvis had to be shown on TV from the waist up.

    But all this cultural nonsense is truly irrelevent, writing “KKK …..” or anything else on another persons home is not acceptable behavior. However you want to explain it away; hate crime, social tensions, stupid teen age pranks, rap music or hip hop inspired its still not acceptable. I hope that the people responsible get the appropriate punishment which probably means restitution, community service and counseling. The behavior modification should be severe enough that they understand why it is wrong and to not want to do it again. The community should want the behavior addressed with measured and appropriate justice. All the rest of this discussion misses the point.

    Ron

  129. Doug Paul Davis

    Remember there were separate incidents, the main one we were referring to that is not the case. The one that occurred at Holmes was performed by a number of students who were of color.

  130. Doug Paul Davis

    Remember there were separate incidents, the main one we were referring to that is not the case. The one that occurred at Holmes was performed by a number of students who were of color.

  131. Doug Paul Davis

    Remember there were separate incidents, the main one we were referring to that is not the case. The one that occurred at Holmes was performed by a number of students who were of color.

  132. Doug Paul Davis

    Remember there were separate incidents, the main one we were referring to that is not the case. The one that occurred at Holmes was performed by a number of students who were of color.

  133. Anonymous

    Both incidents were performed by people “of color”. The outrage over the incidents should be the same regardless of race and the consequences should also be the same.

    There have been too many hate incidents in Davis, but there also have been at least four false hate crimes. The false ones are just as bad as the real ones.

  134. Anonymous

    Both incidents were performed by people “of color”. The outrage over the incidents should be the same regardless of race and the consequences should also be the same.

    There have been too many hate incidents in Davis, but there also have been at least four false hate crimes. The false ones are just as bad as the real ones.

  135. Anonymous

    Both incidents were performed by people “of color”. The outrage over the incidents should be the same regardless of race and the consequences should also be the same.

    There have been too many hate incidents in Davis, but there also have been at least four false hate crimes. The false ones are just as bad as the real ones.

  136. Anonymous

    Both incidents were performed by people “of color”. The outrage over the incidents should be the same regardless of race and the consequences should also be the same.

    There have been too many hate incidents in Davis, but there also have been at least four false hate crimes. The false ones are just as bad as the real ones.

Leave a Reply

X Close

Newsletter Sign-Up

X Close

Monthly Subscriber Sign-Up

Enter the maximum amount you want to pay each month
$ USD
Sign up for