Planning Commission Denies Petition to Put 3000 SF Store at West Lake

In May of 2006, Food Fair shut its doors for the last time. The small grocery store that had previously been Ray’s, has been a vacant building ever since.

Failing for the past year and a half to draw a new retail market for the 22,000 square foot space, the owner has proposed a remodel to allow new kinds of business into the location. However, the current General Plan and zoning require that the center have a grocery store of no small than 15,000 square feet. This is based on a city General Plan requirement that each neighborhood have its own grocery store of at least 15,000 square feet.

The new proposal calls for a much smaller food store. As a result the owner has requested that the city rezone the space from 15,000 square feet to 3,000 square feet.

There are several bases for this request. First, the owner did not believe the space was viable for a grocery store given the population of West Davis, the fact that three stores had been there and failed, and the proximity of the larger Safeway at the Marketplace just a mile and a half down the road on Covell Blvd.

Second, the owner did not believe that he could draw another grocery store into that space. He argued that he tried to do so for the last year and a half. That this issue had come up in November of 2006, but at that time the Planning Commission attempted to have a 7500 square foot store come into that center.

According to city staff, neither the Food Co-op, Nugget, or Trader Joe’s had interest in that spot and they therefore advocated for the change.

However, several members of the Planning Commission openly questioned the amount of due diligence on the part of the owner. Katherine Hess, the city’s planning director at the very least defended the city’s efforts to find a suitable business to take that spot which met the needs of the area.

For the Planning Commission this was a close call. However, there remained a commitment by a narrow majority not to abandon the ideal of a neighborhood grocery store. The majority again by a narrow margin felt that if they approved this change, this would be a permanent change and it could not be undone. In other words, if they built a 3000 square foot store, they would never be able to get a larger grocery store into the site. They felt that all avenues have not been exhausted.

And so by two 4-3 votes, the majority on the planning commission voted first to defeat a substitute motion that would have allowed the 3000 square foot store to come in while at the same time reserving another 3000 feet for another food type store. And then they voted to reject the petition by the property owner. Chair Greg Clumpner, David de la Pena, Rob Hofmann, and Mike Levy comprised the majority. While Terry Whittier, Kris Kordana and Vice-Chair Mark Braly all voted against the motion, favoring to accept the petition.

At this point, the applicant would have to appeal to the city council in order for his proposed project to go forward.

Commentary

As a longtime neighbor of this shopping center, for a long time I enjoyed the convenience of having a neighborhood grocery store, especially as a place where I could walk to, buy a few items without having to deal with traffic or huge crowds and go home. I did not have to set aside 45 minutes to get in my car, drive to Safeway, purchase my products, wait in line, and drive home again.

One of the arguments made in favor of retaining the store is the ideal of recreating the neighborhood grocery store where people really can bike or walk to the store. Having to drive and traverse crowds of people means that I rarely pick up one or two items at Safeway, usually I go and try to save it for one trip and if I forget something then it’s a costly mistake in terms of time.

For the right store, run the right way, this does not have to be a dead location. Trader Joe’s is a tragic example of this narrow-minded thinking. Moving into the University Mall is frankly not appealling to me. There are traffic issues that I believe would be exacerbated by having a popular store right in the heart of student commutes to campus.

There is the very real issue of the crows at University Mall. Unfortunately, during the fall and winter months that location is a virtual cesspool. It smells horrendous. It is dirty and disgusting. You park your car there for a few minutes and have to get it washed again because it is literally covered in droppings.

If Trader Joe’s or a store like that came to the Westlake Shopping Center, it would thrive. They want to look at populations West of Highway 113, why limit themselves. People are not going to drive to that shopping center if they can shop at Safeway. But they might for something that they cannot get at Safeway.

For me this is simply not enough effort and not enough creativity. I see this as a similar issue to many in Davis where the owner does not do due diligence because they have found an easy way out and want the city to accommodate them. I applaud to Planning Commission for not bailing out the owner here.

Like other property owners in Davis, this owner had frankly let the shopping center fall into disrepair. The upkeep was horrendous. The building was not kept up well, the paint was old, it was not attractive. Now that he is trying to attract business in there, he has clearly put in a lot of money and resources to fix it up. They are doing extensive remodels to make the entire shopping center more attractive. I would like to see what happens once that is complete.

I applaud the planning commission for not bailing out the property owner here and allowing him to take the easy way out. Too often we have rewarded property owners for allowing their property to become run down and then we allow them to rebuild beyond the original intent or give them redevelopment money as almost a bail out.

What I would like to see is a concerted effort by the business owner and the city to find an appropriate tenant for that spot and I would like to hold them to that. No bail outs and no more excuses, find a grocer. I think there are grocers that would like that location we just have to try harder to find them. Otherwise we are simply abandoning the neighborhood grocery concept and frankly we are discouraging people from using alternative transportation to do their shopping and I think that’s the exact opposite of what we want to do.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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164 Comments

  1. Anonymous

    Let me propose a heretical notion for Davis. Remove the trees from the University Mall parking lot! The small trees there offer little shade anyway for the parking lot. Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.

  2. Anonymous

    Let me propose a heretical notion for Davis. Remove the trees from the University Mall parking lot! The small trees there offer little shade anyway for the parking lot. Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.

  3. Anonymous

    Let me propose a heretical notion for Davis. Remove the trees from the University Mall parking lot! The small trees there offer little shade anyway for the parking lot. Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.

  4. Anonymous

    Let me propose a heretical notion for Davis. Remove the trees from the University Mall parking lot! The small trees there offer little shade anyway for the parking lot. Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.

  5. west davis reep

    DPD, this post hits the nail on the head. The property owner finally got the message and now seems to be showing some initiative to spruce up the shopping center. Hopefully this translates into a more concerted effort to find a new tenant. Everyone will be better served…West Davis residents, the owner, the city.

    You are also right about the crows. Something needs to be done. I avoid going to the UMall as much as possible because of the crows.

  6. west davis reep

    DPD, this post hits the nail on the head. The property owner finally got the message and now seems to be showing some initiative to spruce up the shopping center. Hopefully this translates into a more concerted effort to find a new tenant. Everyone will be better served…West Davis residents, the owner, the city.

    You are also right about the crows. Something needs to be done. I avoid going to the UMall as much as possible because of the crows.

  7. west davis reep

    DPD, this post hits the nail on the head. The property owner finally got the message and now seems to be showing some initiative to spruce up the shopping center. Hopefully this translates into a more concerted effort to find a new tenant. Everyone will be better served…West Davis residents, the owner, the city.

    You are also right about the crows. Something needs to be done. I avoid going to the UMall as much as possible because of the crows.

  8. west davis reep

    DPD, this post hits the nail on the head. The property owner finally got the message and now seems to be showing some initiative to spruce up the shopping center. Hopefully this translates into a more concerted effort to find a new tenant. Everyone will be better served…West Davis residents, the owner, the city.

    You are also right about the crows. Something needs to be done. I avoid going to the UMall as much as possible because of the crows.

  9. Anonymous

    I agree. Remove the trees. Plant new ones that the crows don’t like. This doesn’t seem to be a problem at the other shopping centers around town and the co-op even has large trees without the crows.

  10. Anonymous

    I agree. Remove the trees. Plant new ones that the crows don’t like. This doesn’t seem to be a problem at the other shopping centers around town and the co-op even has large trees without the crows.

  11. Anonymous

    I agree. Remove the trees. Plant new ones that the crows don’t like. This doesn’t seem to be a problem at the other shopping centers around town and the co-op even has large trees without the crows.

  12. Anonymous

    I agree. Remove the trees. Plant new ones that the crows don’t like. This doesn’t seem to be a problem at the other shopping centers around town and the co-op even has large trees without the crows.

  13. Anonymous

    They abandoned the concept of small neighborhood grocery stores years ago, when larger stores such as Safeway and Nugget were allowed to build and draw away business. The earlier decisions make small neighborhood stores of substantial size economically non-viable.

  14. Anonymous

    They abandoned the concept of small neighborhood grocery stores years ago, when larger stores such as Safeway and Nugget were allowed to build and draw away business. The earlier decisions make small neighborhood stores of substantial size economically non-viable.

  15. Anonymous

    They abandoned the concept of small neighborhood grocery stores years ago, when larger stores such as Safeway and Nugget were allowed to build and draw away business. The earlier decisions make small neighborhood stores of substantial size economically non-viable.

  16. Anonymous

    They abandoned the concept of small neighborhood grocery stores years ago, when larger stores such as Safeway and Nugget were allowed to build and draw away business. The earlier decisions make small neighborhood stores of substantial size economically non-viable.

  17. Rich Rifkin

    “Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.”

    How about photo-voltaic solar shade structures?

    The Google parking lot in Mountain View gets all of its shade from these, as does one of the lots at Cal Expo.

    “It took fifty years to get some shade on that parking lot, and now we want to take out the trees?”

    The U-Mall was built in 1964. There was significant shade there from the trees by 1974. However, in recent years, the mall’s owners have been severely pruning the trees (to fight the crows), to the point that they provide very inadequate shade, now.

    “Plant new ones that the crows don’t like.”

    Perhaps there is an arborist or ornithologist out there who knows if such a species exists (which would grow in that parking lot), but I don’t know of any shade tree which crows don’t like.

  18. Rich Rifkin

    “Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.”

    How about photo-voltaic solar shade structures?

    The Google parking lot in Mountain View gets all of its shade from these, as does one of the lots at Cal Expo.

    “It took fifty years to get some shade on that parking lot, and now we want to take out the trees?”

    The U-Mall was built in 1964. There was significant shade there from the trees by 1974. However, in recent years, the mall’s owners have been severely pruning the trees (to fight the crows), to the point that they provide very inadequate shade, now.

    “Plant new ones that the crows don’t like.”

    Perhaps there is an arborist or ornithologist out there who knows if such a species exists (which would grow in that parking lot), but I don’t know of any shade tree which crows don’t like.

  19. Rich Rifkin

    “Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.”

    How about photo-voltaic solar shade structures?

    The Google parking lot in Mountain View gets all of its shade from these, as does one of the lots at Cal Expo.

    “It took fifty years to get some shade on that parking lot, and now we want to take out the trees?”

    The U-Mall was built in 1964. There was significant shade there from the trees by 1974. However, in recent years, the mall’s owners have been severely pruning the trees (to fight the crows), to the point that they provide very inadequate shade, now.

    “Plant new ones that the crows don’t like.”

    Perhaps there is an arborist or ornithologist out there who knows if such a species exists (which would grow in that parking lot), but I don’t know of any shade tree which crows don’t like.

  20. Rich Rifkin

    “Perhaps another CREATIVE solution can be found for shade structures that would not be a haven for those birds.”

    How about photo-voltaic solar shade structures?

    The Google parking lot in Mountain View gets all of its shade from these, as does one of the lots at Cal Expo.

    “It took fifty years to get some shade on that parking lot, and now we want to take out the trees?”

    The U-Mall was built in 1964. There was significant shade there from the trees by 1974. However, in recent years, the mall’s owners have been severely pruning the trees (to fight the crows), to the point that they provide very inadequate shade, now.

    “Plant new ones that the crows don’t like.”

    Perhaps there is an arborist or ornithologist out there who knows if such a species exists (which would grow in that parking lot), but I don’t know of any shade tree which crows don’t like.

  21. west davis reep

    It is also worth mentioning that Rays and Food Fair were crappy stores. I know that when I needed more than just a few items, I always drove to Safeway where things were cheaper and of a higher quality.

    Perhaps a better-run store would do better at the West Lake location than Rays or Food Fair.

  22. west davis reep

    It is also worth mentioning that Rays and Food Fair were crappy stores. I know that when I needed more than just a few items, I always drove to Safeway where things were cheaper and of a higher quality.

    Perhaps a better-run store would do better at the West Lake location than Rays or Food Fair.

  23. west davis reep

    It is also worth mentioning that Rays and Food Fair were crappy stores. I know that when I needed more than just a few items, I always drove to Safeway where things were cheaper and of a higher quality.

    Perhaps a better-run store would do better at the West Lake location than Rays or Food Fair.

  24. west davis reep

    It is also worth mentioning that Rays and Food Fair were crappy stores. I know that when I needed more than just a few items, I always drove to Safeway where things were cheaper and of a higher quality.

    Perhaps a better-run store would do better at the West Lake location than Rays or Food Fair.

  25. Anonymous

    “Perhaps a better-run store would do better.”

    Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.

    Take away the trees at U-Mall, solve the problem. By the way, U-Mall still needs a grocery store for its neighborhood. NO, World Market is NOT a grocery store (they just sell a few food items)

  26. Anonymous

    “Perhaps a better-run store would do better.”

    Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.

    Take away the trees at U-Mall, solve the problem. By the way, U-Mall still needs a grocery store for its neighborhood. NO, World Market is NOT a grocery store (they just sell a few food items)

  27. Anonymous

    “Perhaps a better-run store would do better.”

    Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.

    Take away the trees at U-Mall, solve the problem. By the way, U-Mall still needs a grocery store for its neighborhood. NO, World Market is NOT a grocery store (they just sell a few food items)

  28. Anonymous

    “Perhaps a better-run store would do better.”

    Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.

    Take away the trees at U-Mall, solve the problem. By the way, U-Mall still needs a grocery store for its neighborhood. NO, World Market is NOT a grocery store (they just sell a few food items)

  29. Doug Paul Davis

    “Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.”

    I do not see why location would necessitate a poorly run store.

    I think the tree cutting issue sounds simple but if you’ve driven down Russell, you’d have to get rid of an awful lot of trees. That would take out a huge chunk of character from that location and probably be worse than the disease itself.

  30. Doug Paul Davis

    “Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.”

    I do not see why location would necessitate a poorly run store.

    I think the tree cutting issue sounds simple but if you’ve driven down Russell, you’d have to get rid of an awful lot of trees. That would take out a huge chunk of character from that location and probably be worse than the disease itself.

  31. Doug Paul Davis

    “Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.”

    I do not see why location would necessitate a poorly run store.

    I think the tree cutting issue sounds simple but if you’ve driven down Russell, you’d have to get rid of an awful lot of trees. That would take out a huge chunk of character from that location and probably be worse than the disease itself.

  32. Doug Paul Davis

    “Just perhaps, a better run store knows a better location and obviously wants the best location assure their store the best possibility of longevity.”

    I do not see why location would necessitate a poorly run store.

    I think the tree cutting issue sounds simple but if you’ve driven down Russell, you’d have to get rid of an awful lot of trees. That would take out a huge chunk of character from that location and probably be worse than the disease itself.

  33. west davis reep

    I would also add to the discussion that the location of the shopping center on Lake is, generally speaking, very poor. While a quality grocer would have a much better chance of succeeding in that location than Ray’s or Food Circus…er…Fair, the odds are stacked in the opposite direction.

  34. west davis reep

    I would also add to the discussion that the location of the shopping center on Lake is, generally speaking, very poor. While a quality grocer would have a much better chance of succeeding in that location than Ray’s or Food Circus…er…Fair, the odds are stacked in the opposite direction.

  35. west davis reep

    I would also add to the discussion that the location of the shopping center on Lake is, generally speaking, very poor. While a quality grocer would have a much better chance of succeeding in that location than Ray’s or Food Circus…er…Fair, the odds are stacked in the opposite direction.

  36. west davis reep

    I would also add to the discussion that the location of the shopping center on Lake is, generally speaking, very poor. While a quality grocer would have a much better chance of succeeding in that location than Ray’s or Food Circus…er…Fair, the odds are stacked in the opposite direction.

  37. Sue Greenwald

    Rich,

    I had the same thought — replace the trees with photovoltaic shade structures.

    I actually love crows, and think they get a bad rap. I like to be reminded that we are not the only highly, successful, intelligent, social species on the planet.

    However, I don’t think that parking lots are the best place for them to roost.

  38. Sue Greenwald

    Rich,

    I had the same thought — replace the trees with photovoltaic shade structures.

    I actually love crows, and think they get a bad rap. I like to be reminded that we are not the only highly, successful, intelligent, social species on the planet.

    However, I don’t think that parking lots are the best place for them to roost.

  39. Sue Greenwald

    Rich,

    I had the same thought — replace the trees with photovoltaic shade structures.

    I actually love crows, and think they get a bad rap. I like to be reminded that we are not the only highly, successful, intelligent, social species on the planet.

    However, I don’t think that parking lots are the best place for them to roost.

  40. Sue Greenwald

    Rich,

    I had the same thought — replace the trees with photovoltaic shade structures.

    I actually love crows, and think they get a bad rap. I like to be reminded that we are not the only highly, successful, intelligent, social species on the planet.

    However, I don’t think that parking lots are the best place for them to roost.

  41. 無名 - wu ming

    if the owner were serious about making a good faith effort to find a tenant, he wouldn’t have filled in the loading dock with rubble shortly after food fair closed.

    and lest we forget, farmtown market did a lousy job of managing that space, before ray’s and food fair. it’s been cursed as mnuch with incompetent stores as much as reluctant consumers.

    good to see the principle of walkable neighborhood groceries didn’t get sacrificed for short term expediency. here’s hoping they get something decenbt in that slot. when you add up a neighborhood’s use of gas to make grocery runs across town instead of a block or two away, it adds up over the long run.

  42. 無名 - wu ming

    if the owner were serious about making a good faith effort to find a tenant, he wouldn’t have filled in the loading dock with rubble shortly after food fair closed.

    and lest we forget, farmtown market did a lousy job of managing that space, before ray’s and food fair. it’s been cursed as mnuch with incompetent stores as much as reluctant consumers.

    good to see the principle of walkable neighborhood groceries didn’t get sacrificed for short term expediency. here’s hoping they get something decenbt in that slot. when you add up a neighborhood’s use of gas to make grocery runs across town instead of a block or two away, it adds up over the long run.

  43. 無名 - wu ming

    if the owner were serious about making a good faith effort to find a tenant, he wouldn’t have filled in the loading dock with rubble shortly after food fair closed.

    and lest we forget, farmtown market did a lousy job of managing that space, before ray’s and food fair. it’s been cursed as mnuch with incompetent stores as much as reluctant consumers.

    good to see the principle of walkable neighborhood groceries didn’t get sacrificed for short term expediency. here’s hoping they get something decenbt in that slot. when you add up a neighborhood’s use of gas to make grocery runs across town instead of a block or two away, it adds up over the long run.

  44. 無名 - wu ming

    if the owner were serious about making a good faith effort to find a tenant, he wouldn’t have filled in the loading dock with rubble shortly after food fair closed.

    and lest we forget, farmtown market did a lousy job of managing that space, before ray’s and food fair. it’s been cursed as mnuch with incompetent stores as much as reluctant consumers.

    good to see the principle of walkable neighborhood groceries didn’t get sacrificed for short term expediency. here’s hoping they get something decenbt in that slot. when you add up a neighborhood’s use of gas to make grocery runs across town instead of a block or two away, it adds up over the long run.

  45. Anonymous

    I have mixed feelings about this decision. While I agree it would be better to have a 15,000 sq ft grocery store, is it possible to say three strikes and you are out? How many trys constitute “let’s go back to the drawing board and rethink this one”? That being said, I am not convinced due diligence was done by the mall owners. But I can almost guarantee, with the vote being so close, the City Council majority will most likely override this decision. We’ll see. Thoughts about that one?

  46. Anonymous

    I have mixed feelings about this decision. While I agree it would be better to have a 15,000 sq ft grocery store, is it possible to say three strikes and you are out? How many trys constitute “let’s go back to the drawing board and rethink this one”? That being said, I am not convinced due diligence was done by the mall owners. But I can almost guarantee, with the vote being so close, the City Council majority will most likely override this decision. We’ll see. Thoughts about that one?

  47. Anonymous

    I have mixed feelings about this decision. While I agree it would be better to have a 15,000 sq ft grocery store, is it possible to say three strikes and you are out? How many trys constitute “let’s go back to the drawing board and rethink this one”? That being said, I am not convinced due diligence was done by the mall owners. But I can almost guarantee, with the vote being so close, the City Council majority will most likely override this decision. We’ll see. Thoughts about that one?

  48. Anonymous

    I have mixed feelings about this decision. While I agree it would be better to have a 15,000 sq ft grocery store, is it possible to say three strikes and you are out? How many trys constitute “let’s go back to the drawing board and rethink this one”? That being said, I am not convinced due diligence was done by the mall owners. But I can almost guarantee, with the vote being so close, the City Council majority will most likely override this decision. We’ll see. Thoughts about that one?

  49. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t think that will be viewed as a black and white issue by them. I think there is a concern about having West Lake vacant and also a concern about not having a neighborhood grocery store there. I wouldn’t bet on it being overturned and I also wouldn’t bet against it. (I guess I’m saying it’s a toss-up).

  50. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t think that will be viewed as a black and white issue by them. I think there is a concern about having West Lake vacant and also a concern about not having a neighborhood grocery store there. I wouldn’t bet on it being overturned and I also wouldn’t bet against it. (I guess I’m saying it’s a toss-up).

  51. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t think that will be viewed as a black and white issue by them. I think there is a concern about having West Lake vacant and also a concern about not having a neighborhood grocery store there. I wouldn’t bet on it being overturned and I also wouldn’t bet against it. (I guess I’m saying it’s a toss-up).

  52. Doug Paul Davis

    I don’t think that will be viewed as a black and white issue by them. I think there is a concern about having West Lake vacant and also a concern about not having a neighborhood grocery store there. I wouldn’t bet on it being overturned and I also wouldn’t bet against it. (I guess I’m saying it’s a toss-up).

  53. don shor

    I know of no tree that crows will not roost in, other than those that won’t support their weight.

    Just for fun, this is from a Cornell crow page:
    What do crows eat?

    everything

    Why do crows gather in flocks during the day?

    to cruise the singles’ flocks

    How smart are crows?

    smarter than many undergraduates, but probably not as smart as ravens

    Do crows really like shiny objects?

    no

    Are crows getting bigger?

    no

    Are crow populations increasing?

    probably, but not as much as you think

    How can you tell a male crow from a female?

    not easily

    How many different calls do crows make?

    lots, but most of them still sound like “caw”

    Why do crows hate owls?

    many good reasons, most having to do with decapitated crows

    Do crows play?

    yes

    Do crows make good pets?

    yes, but they’re VERY illegal

  54. don shor

    I know of no tree that crows will not roost in, other than those that won’t support their weight.

    Just for fun, this is from a Cornell crow page:
    What do crows eat?

    everything

    Why do crows gather in flocks during the day?

    to cruise the singles’ flocks

    How smart are crows?

    smarter than many undergraduates, but probably not as smart as ravens

    Do crows really like shiny objects?

    no

    Are crows getting bigger?

    no

    Are crow populations increasing?

    probably, but not as much as you think

    How can you tell a male crow from a female?

    not easily

    How many different calls do crows make?

    lots, but most of them still sound like “caw”

    Why do crows hate owls?

    many good reasons, most having to do with decapitated crows

    Do crows play?

    yes

    Do crows make good pets?

    yes, but they’re VERY illegal

  55. don shor

    I know of no tree that crows will not roost in, other than those that won’t support their weight.

    Just for fun, this is from a Cornell crow page:
    What do crows eat?

    everything

    Why do crows gather in flocks during the day?

    to cruise the singles’ flocks

    How smart are crows?

    smarter than many undergraduates, but probably not as smart as ravens

    Do crows really like shiny objects?

    no

    Are crows getting bigger?

    no

    Are crow populations increasing?

    probably, but not as much as you think

    How can you tell a male crow from a female?

    not easily

    How many different calls do crows make?

    lots, but most of them still sound like “caw”

    Why do crows hate owls?

    many good reasons, most having to do with decapitated crows

    Do crows play?

    yes

    Do crows make good pets?

    yes, but they’re VERY illegal

  56. don shor

    I know of no tree that crows will not roost in, other than those that won’t support their weight.

    Just for fun, this is from a Cornell crow page:
    What do crows eat?

    everything

    Why do crows gather in flocks during the day?

    to cruise the singles’ flocks

    How smart are crows?

    smarter than many undergraduates, but probably not as smart as ravens

    Do crows really like shiny objects?

    no

    Are crows getting bigger?

    no

    Are crow populations increasing?

    probably, but not as much as you think

    How can you tell a male crow from a female?

    not easily

    How many different calls do crows make?

    lots, but most of them still sound like “caw”

    Why do crows hate owls?

    many good reasons, most having to do with decapitated crows

    Do crows play?

    yes

    Do crows make good pets?

    yes, but they’re VERY illegal

  57. David J. Thompson

    A number of us have been working since fall of 2007 to keep a grocery store requirement at the Stonegate Shopping Center. At the present time there is a 15,000 sq foot requirement for a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. The decision the Planning Commission was being asked essentially — shall a requirement for a neighborhood food store remain.

    Almost to a person with the many meetings in West Davis since fall of 2007 people have said they want a requirement to remain to ensure there is a grocery store in West Davis. This has been evident at two City sponsored neighborhood meetings and two meetings held by the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association (DNMA). A survey done last year had 291 responses all wanting a store in West Davis. I think we who came in support all felt insulted last night when Commissioner Kordana seemed to imply that with only 34 people in the audience in support there clearly was not much public support for a West Davis Market. This process has involved hundreds of people attending numerous meetings. Over the last year about 500 different people have said they want to keep a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. That is a sizeable number of citizens who have attended a meeting, written a letter to the Enterprise, or filled in a survey.

    So what are some of the key points?

    • West Davis is the one neighborhood of town where more people have to travel to a grocery store than any other area of town. It is clearly the most underserved in terms of food stores.
    • If there is no grocery store required at Stonegate Shopping Center then there will be no grocery store there. As there is no other place in West Davis for a grocery store then this area of our town will not have a grocery store until a new development is approved. That could be a long time. West Davis should not have to add a new development just to get a grocery store.
    • Davis shows some signs of desiring to return to being a “green community leader”. Nothing will make as much difference as thousands of West Davis residents having a shorter distance to drive to a neighborhood grocery store. Imagine in such a “green city” a huge swath of town has no other choice except to drive to a supermarket.
    • We know that our community is stronger when we have strong neighborhood shopping centers. Look what the Davis Food Co-op has done for the Davis Downtown. A 7,500 square foot store at Stonegate Shopping Center (rather than the previous 23,000 sq ft store) would attract between 400-500 cash register transactions a day). As a number of people shop with family, kids and friends that would mean let us say 600 people a day coming to the neighborhood grocery store. That 600 people a day is a boon to the other retail and restaurant outlets at Stonegate. Grocery stores keep shopping centers lively and viable.
    • If there is no grocery store at Stonegate then the Center will slowly die as a retail center. Replacing 23,000 of retail with 23,000 of office space will turn Stonegate into an office park rather than a retail center. One by one the existing retail units will close to be replaced by other offices. It won’t be long before Stonegate will look like the former shopping centers on Main Street in Woodland that are now mostly offices with a thrift store thrown in. Yes, a few restaurants will remain at Stonegate but it will soon be an area as dark as the sky at night.
    • The developer said at the Commission last night that he offered TESCO’s “Fresh and Easy” five years of free rent to move into Stonegate. He offered the Davis Food Co-op $1.50 a square foot plus the DFC would have to pay for all the improvements (which the developer had just ripped out). He’s asked other stores to pay $2 a square foot.
    • The developer has quoted different prices, said different things, shown different maps, and asked for different sizes. Does anyone in West Davis believe anything the developer says anymore? At this time do any us believe there has been a good faith effort on the part of the developer? Ridding himself of the 15,000 square foot requirement will make the developer richer and the neighborhood poorer.

    My recommendation is that:

    • The City requires a food store of a minimum of 7,500 square foot at Stonegate.
    • The developer not be allowed to rent out any of the other 23,000 former supermarket until a food store is operating and
    • The developer has to pay a penalty for every day a food store is not operating at the location after one opens. That penalty assessment is placed in an account to be made available towards a food retailer that takes over the space. That the food store must remain vacant until filled with another food store.

    The Council should appoint a Task Force to look at all the options with the intent to keep a grocery store there. There are a lot of options and all around the country there are examples of communities saving their neighborhood stores. Let’s not let West Davis be a neighborhood without a grocery store. Let’s take the opportunity to build community rather than destroy it. Davis can do better.

  58. David J. Thompson

    A number of us have been working since fall of 2007 to keep a grocery store requirement at the Stonegate Shopping Center. At the present time there is a 15,000 sq foot requirement for a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. The decision the Planning Commission was being asked essentially — shall a requirement for a neighborhood food store remain.

    Almost to a person with the many meetings in West Davis since fall of 2007 people have said they want a requirement to remain to ensure there is a grocery store in West Davis. This has been evident at two City sponsored neighborhood meetings and two meetings held by the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association (DNMA). A survey done last year had 291 responses all wanting a store in West Davis. I think we who came in support all felt insulted last night when Commissioner Kordana seemed to imply that with only 34 people in the audience in support there clearly was not much public support for a West Davis Market. This process has involved hundreds of people attending numerous meetings. Over the last year about 500 different people have said they want to keep a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. That is a sizeable number of citizens who have attended a meeting, written a letter to the Enterprise, or filled in a survey.

    So what are some of the key points?

    • West Davis is the one neighborhood of town where more people have to travel to a grocery store than any other area of town. It is clearly the most underserved in terms of food stores.
    • If there is no grocery store required at Stonegate Shopping Center then there will be no grocery store there. As there is no other place in West Davis for a grocery store then this area of our town will not have a grocery store until a new development is approved. That could be a long time. West Davis should not have to add a new development just to get a grocery store.
    • Davis shows some signs of desiring to return to being a “green community leader”. Nothing will make as much difference as thousands of West Davis residents having a shorter distance to drive to a neighborhood grocery store. Imagine in such a “green city” a huge swath of town has no other choice except to drive to a supermarket.
    • We know that our community is stronger when we have strong neighborhood shopping centers. Look what the Davis Food Co-op has done for the Davis Downtown. A 7,500 square foot store at Stonegate Shopping Center (rather than the previous 23,000 sq ft store) would attract between 400-500 cash register transactions a day). As a number of people shop with family, kids and friends that would mean let us say 600 people a day coming to the neighborhood grocery store. That 600 people a day is a boon to the other retail and restaurant outlets at Stonegate. Grocery stores keep shopping centers lively and viable.
    • If there is no grocery store at Stonegate then the Center will slowly die as a retail center. Replacing 23,000 of retail with 23,000 of office space will turn Stonegate into an office park rather than a retail center. One by one the existing retail units will close to be replaced by other offices. It won’t be long before Stonegate will look like the former shopping centers on Main Street in Woodland that are now mostly offices with a thrift store thrown in. Yes, a few restaurants will remain at Stonegate but it will soon be an area as dark as the sky at night.
    • The developer said at the Commission last night that he offered TESCO’s “Fresh and Easy” five years of free rent to move into Stonegate. He offered the Davis Food Co-op $1.50 a square foot plus the DFC would have to pay for all the improvements (which the developer had just ripped out). He’s asked other stores to pay $2 a square foot.
    • The developer has quoted different prices, said different things, shown different maps, and asked for different sizes. Does anyone in West Davis believe anything the developer says anymore? At this time do any us believe there has been a good faith effort on the part of the developer? Ridding himself of the 15,000 square foot requirement will make the developer richer and the neighborhood poorer.

    My recommendation is that:

    • The City requires a food store of a minimum of 7,500 square foot at Stonegate.
    • The developer not be allowed to rent out any of the other 23,000 former supermarket until a food store is operating and
    • The developer has to pay a penalty for every day a food store is not operating at the location after one opens. That penalty assessment is placed in an account to be made available towards a food retailer that takes over the space. That the food store must remain vacant until filled with another food store.

    The Council should appoint a Task Force to look at all the options with the intent to keep a grocery store there. There are a lot of options and all around the country there are examples of communities saving their neighborhood stores. Let’s not let West Davis be a neighborhood without a grocery store. Let’s take the opportunity to build community rather than destroy it. Davis can do better.

  59. David J. Thompson

    A number of us have been working since fall of 2007 to keep a grocery store requirement at the Stonegate Shopping Center. At the present time there is a 15,000 sq foot requirement for a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. The decision the Planning Commission was being asked essentially — shall a requirement for a neighborhood food store remain.

    Almost to a person with the many meetings in West Davis since fall of 2007 people have said they want a requirement to remain to ensure there is a grocery store in West Davis. This has been evident at two City sponsored neighborhood meetings and two meetings held by the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association (DNMA). A survey done last year had 291 responses all wanting a store in West Davis. I think we who came in support all felt insulted last night when Commissioner Kordana seemed to imply that with only 34 people in the audience in support there clearly was not much public support for a West Davis Market. This process has involved hundreds of people attending numerous meetings. Over the last year about 500 different people have said they want to keep a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. That is a sizeable number of citizens who have attended a meeting, written a letter to the Enterprise, or filled in a survey.

    So what are some of the key points?

    • West Davis is the one neighborhood of town where more people have to travel to a grocery store than any other area of town. It is clearly the most underserved in terms of food stores.
    • If there is no grocery store required at Stonegate Shopping Center then there will be no grocery store there. As there is no other place in West Davis for a grocery store then this area of our town will not have a grocery store until a new development is approved. That could be a long time. West Davis should not have to add a new development just to get a grocery store.
    • Davis shows some signs of desiring to return to being a “green community leader”. Nothing will make as much difference as thousands of West Davis residents having a shorter distance to drive to a neighborhood grocery store. Imagine in such a “green city” a huge swath of town has no other choice except to drive to a supermarket.
    • We know that our community is stronger when we have strong neighborhood shopping centers. Look what the Davis Food Co-op has done for the Davis Downtown. A 7,500 square foot store at Stonegate Shopping Center (rather than the previous 23,000 sq ft store) would attract between 400-500 cash register transactions a day). As a number of people shop with family, kids and friends that would mean let us say 600 people a day coming to the neighborhood grocery store. That 600 people a day is a boon to the other retail and restaurant outlets at Stonegate. Grocery stores keep shopping centers lively and viable.
    • If there is no grocery store at Stonegate then the Center will slowly die as a retail center. Replacing 23,000 of retail with 23,000 of office space will turn Stonegate into an office park rather than a retail center. One by one the existing retail units will close to be replaced by other offices. It won’t be long before Stonegate will look like the former shopping centers on Main Street in Woodland that are now mostly offices with a thrift store thrown in. Yes, a few restaurants will remain at Stonegate but it will soon be an area as dark as the sky at night.
    • The developer said at the Commission last night that he offered TESCO’s “Fresh and Easy” five years of free rent to move into Stonegate. He offered the Davis Food Co-op $1.50 a square foot plus the DFC would have to pay for all the improvements (which the developer had just ripped out). He’s asked other stores to pay $2 a square foot.
    • The developer has quoted different prices, said different things, shown different maps, and asked for different sizes. Does anyone in West Davis believe anything the developer says anymore? At this time do any us believe there has been a good faith effort on the part of the developer? Ridding himself of the 15,000 square foot requirement will make the developer richer and the neighborhood poorer.

    My recommendation is that:

    • The City requires a food store of a minimum of 7,500 square foot at Stonegate.
    • The developer not be allowed to rent out any of the other 23,000 former supermarket until a food store is operating and
    • The developer has to pay a penalty for every day a food store is not operating at the location after one opens. That penalty assessment is placed in an account to be made available towards a food retailer that takes over the space. That the food store must remain vacant until filled with another food store.

    The Council should appoint a Task Force to look at all the options with the intent to keep a grocery store there. There are a lot of options and all around the country there are examples of communities saving their neighborhood stores. Let’s not let West Davis be a neighborhood without a grocery store. Let’s take the opportunity to build community rather than destroy it. Davis can do better.

  60. David J. Thompson

    A number of us have been working since fall of 2007 to keep a grocery store requirement at the Stonegate Shopping Center. At the present time there is a 15,000 sq foot requirement for a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. The decision the Planning Commission was being asked essentially — shall a requirement for a neighborhood food store remain.

    Almost to a person with the many meetings in West Davis since fall of 2007 people have said they want a requirement to remain to ensure there is a grocery store in West Davis. This has been evident at two City sponsored neighborhood meetings and two meetings held by the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association (DNMA). A survey done last year had 291 responses all wanting a store in West Davis. I think we who came in support all felt insulted last night when Commissioner Kordana seemed to imply that with only 34 people in the audience in support there clearly was not much public support for a West Davis Market. This process has involved hundreds of people attending numerous meetings. Over the last year about 500 different people have said they want to keep a grocery store at the Stonegate Shopping Center. That is a sizeable number of citizens who have attended a meeting, written a letter to the Enterprise, or filled in a survey.

    So what are some of the key points?

    • West Davis is the one neighborhood of town where more people have to travel to a grocery store than any other area of town. It is clearly the most underserved in terms of food stores.
    • If there is no grocery store required at Stonegate Shopping Center then there will be no grocery store there. As there is no other place in West Davis for a grocery store then this area of our town will not have a grocery store until a new development is approved. That could be a long time. West Davis should not have to add a new development just to get a grocery store.
    • Davis shows some signs of desiring to return to being a “green community leader”. Nothing will make as much difference as thousands of West Davis residents having a shorter distance to drive to a neighborhood grocery store. Imagine in such a “green city” a huge swath of town has no other choice except to drive to a supermarket.
    • We know that our community is stronger when we have strong neighborhood shopping centers. Look what the Davis Food Co-op has done for the Davis Downtown. A 7,500 square foot store at Stonegate Shopping Center (rather than the previous 23,000 sq ft store) would attract between 400-500 cash register transactions a day). As a number of people shop with family, kids and friends that would mean let us say 600 people a day coming to the neighborhood grocery store. That 600 people a day is a boon to the other retail and restaurant outlets at Stonegate. Grocery stores keep shopping centers lively and viable.
    • If there is no grocery store at Stonegate then the Center will slowly die as a retail center. Replacing 23,000 of retail with 23,000 of office space will turn Stonegate into an office park rather than a retail center. One by one the existing retail units will close to be replaced by other offices. It won’t be long before Stonegate will look like the former shopping centers on Main Street in Woodland that are now mostly offices with a thrift store thrown in. Yes, a few restaurants will remain at Stonegate but it will soon be an area as dark as the sky at night.
    • The developer said at the Commission last night that he offered TESCO’s “Fresh and Easy” five years of free rent to move into Stonegate. He offered the Davis Food Co-op $1.50 a square foot plus the DFC would have to pay for all the improvements (which the developer had just ripped out). He’s asked other stores to pay $2 a square foot.
    • The developer has quoted different prices, said different things, shown different maps, and asked for different sizes. Does anyone in West Davis believe anything the developer says anymore? At this time do any us believe there has been a good faith effort on the part of the developer? Ridding himself of the 15,000 square foot requirement will make the developer richer and the neighborhood poorer.

    My recommendation is that:

    • The City requires a food store of a minimum of 7,500 square foot at Stonegate.
    • The developer not be allowed to rent out any of the other 23,000 former supermarket until a food store is operating and
    • The developer has to pay a penalty for every day a food store is not operating at the location after one opens. That penalty assessment is placed in an account to be made available towards a food retailer that takes over the space. That the food store must remain vacant until filled with another food store.

    The Council should appoint a Task Force to look at all the options with the intent to keep a grocery store there. There are a lot of options and all around the country there are examples of communities saving their neighborhood stores. Let’s not let West Davis be a neighborhood without a grocery store. Let’s take the opportunity to build community rather than destroy it. Davis can do better.

  61. Doug Paul Davis

    Excellent post David, I agree.

    As I lay in bed late last night having essentially worked for day and a half with only three hours of sleep in between, I was angered by Kris Kordonoa’s comments as well. Usually having a number of people in the audience means there is another and larger number who feel likewise but could not make it for some reason.

    I appreciate the comments, and I think it is a good idea to enforce him bringing in a food store first before they can fill the rest of the unit.

  62. Doug Paul Davis

    Excellent post David, I agree.

    As I lay in bed late last night having essentially worked for day and a half with only three hours of sleep in between, I was angered by Kris Kordonoa’s comments as well. Usually having a number of people in the audience means there is another and larger number who feel likewise but could not make it for some reason.

    I appreciate the comments, and I think it is a good idea to enforce him bringing in a food store first before they can fill the rest of the unit.

  63. Doug Paul Davis

    Excellent post David, I agree.

    As I lay in bed late last night having essentially worked for day and a half with only three hours of sleep in between, I was angered by Kris Kordonoa’s comments as well. Usually having a number of people in the audience means there is another and larger number who feel likewise but could not make it for some reason.

    I appreciate the comments, and I think it is a good idea to enforce him bringing in a food store first before they can fill the rest of the unit.

  64. Doug Paul Davis

    Excellent post David, I agree.

    As I lay in bed late last night having essentially worked for day and a half with only three hours of sleep in between, I was angered by Kris Kordonoa’s comments as well. Usually having a number of people in the audience means there is another and larger number who feel likewise but could not make it for some reason.

    I appreciate the comments, and I think it is a good idea to enforce him bringing in a food store first before they can fill the rest of the unit.

  65. Anonymous

    I used to walk to Ray’s, about 10 years ago, but then the quality of the store went down (bad meat on display, expired milk, etc.)

    Badly run stores lose customers.

  66. Anonymous

    I used to walk to Ray’s, about 10 years ago, but then the quality of the store went down (bad meat on display, expired milk, etc.)

    Badly run stores lose customers.

  67. Anonymous

    I used to walk to Ray’s, about 10 years ago, but then the quality of the store went down (bad meat on display, expired milk, etc.)

    Badly run stores lose customers.

  68. Anonymous

    I used to walk to Ray’s, about 10 years ago, but then the quality of the store went down (bad meat on display, expired milk, etc.)

    Badly run stores lose customers.

  69. village gnomes resident

    I think a smaller grocery store should be required and tried at West Lake. But none of us want the proposed 3,000 sq foot quasi liquor store. The owner has been told that at every meeting. Yet he and the city staff continue to stuff a liqor store down our throats. They want to kill our neighborhood shopping center. The owner tells us a new lie at every meeting. We do want good quality food in a store above 6,000 square feet. What small store examples do we have? What is the size of the Lorenzo’s store in Winters?

  70. village gnomes resident

    I think a smaller grocery store should be required and tried at West Lake. But none of us want the proposed 3,000 sq foot quasi liquor store. The owner has been told that at every meeting. Yet he and the city staff continue to stuff a liqor store down our throats. They want to kill our neighborhood shopping center. The owner tells us a new lie at every meeting. We do want good quality food in a store above 6,000 square feet. What small store examples do we have? What is the size of the Lorenzo’s store in Winters?

  71. village gnomes resident

    I think a smaller grocery store should be required and tried at West Lake. But none of us want the proposed 3,000 sq foot quasi liquor store. The owner has been told that at every meeting. Yet he and the city staff continue to stuff a liqor store down our throats. They want to kill our neighborhood shopping center. The owner tells us a new lie at every meeting. We do want good quality food in a store above 6,000 square feet. What small store examples do we have? What is the size of the Lorenzo’s store in Winters?

  72. village gnomes resident

    I think a smaller grocery store should be required and tried at West Lake. But none of us want the proposed 3,000 sq foot quasi liquor store. The owner has been told that at every meeting. Yet he and the city staff continue to stuff a liqor store down our throats. They want to kill our neighborhood shopping center. The owner tells us a new lie at every meeting. We do want good quality food in a store above 6,000 square feet. What small store examples do we have? What is the size of the Lorenzo’s store in Winters?

  73. Anonymous

    One of the signs of urban decay is the formation of a food desert, an area of the city where food is not sold, only liquor, cigarettes, and junk food. Residents must travel miles in order to find real food. It would be ironic and sad if west Davis is headed in that direction, given all the support and enthusiasm for local food in Davis. Doug Paul Davis’ blog reports accurately on the situation. I’d like the Co-op to set up a West Davis store, but recognize that the terms would have to be much better than have been offered. If the mall owner was serious about renting 7 to 10 thousand square feet to a food store, one could be found.

  74. Anonymous

    One of the signs of urban decay is the formation of a food desert, an area of the city where food is not sold, only liquor, cigarettes, and junk food. Residents must travel miles in order to find real food. It would be ironic and sad if west Davis is headed in that direction, given all the support and enthusiasm for local food in Davis. Doug Paul Davis’ blog reports accurately on the situation. I’d like the Co-op to set up a West Davis store, but recognize that the terms would have to be much better than have been offered. If the mall owner was serious about renting 7 to 10 thousand square feet to a food store, one could be found.

  75. Anonymous

    One of the signs of urban decay is the formation of a food desert, an area of the city where food is not sold, only liquor, cigarettes, and junk food. Residents must travel miles in order to find real food. It would be ironic and sad if west Davis is headed in that direction, given all the support and enthusiasm for local food in Davis. Doug Paul Davis’ blog reports accurately on the situation. I’d like the Co-op to set up a West Davis store, but recognize that the terms would have to be much better than have been offered. If the mall owner was serious about renting 7 to 10 thousand square feet to a food store, one could be found.

  76. Anonymous

    One of the signs of urban decay is the formation of a food desert, an area of the city where food is not sold, only liquor, cigarettes, and junk food. Residents must travel miles in order to find real food. It would be ironic and sad if west Davis is headed in that direction, given all the support and enthusiasm for local food in Davis. Doug Paul Davis’ blog reports accurately on the situation. I’d like the Co-op to set up a West Davis store, but recognize that the terms would have to be much better than have been offered. If the mall owner was serious about renting 7 to 10 thousand square feet to a food store, one could be found.

  77. Anonymous

    Any food store operator looking at the Stonegate during the past decade would have to pass it up. The place is an evident disaster; the Lake Blvd side is ugly, the signage almost non-existent and amateur,exposed electric wiring and cracked parking lot surface, the clock is right twice a day, the front window is boarded up with wood, there is garbage all along the rear and for some reason the loading dock is filled with gravel. The owner claims he has tried in good faith to get a food store operator. Who would want to open a food store in the newest slum in Davis. Clean up your act first then let’s talk. The owner’s request is pitiful and a sham. Why are City staff so actively supporting such a slumlord!

  78. Anonymous

    Any food store operator looking at the Stonegate during the past decade would have to pass it up. The place is an evident disaster; the Lake Blvd side is ugly, the signage almost non-existent and amateur,exposed electric wiring and cracked parking lot surface, the clock is right twice a day, the front window is boarded up with wood, there is garbage all along the rear and for some reason the loading dock is filled with gravel. The owner claims he has tried in good faith to get a food store operator. Who would want to open a food store in the newest slum in Davis. Clean up your act first then let’s talk. The owner’s request is pitiful and a sham. Why are City staff so actively supporting such a slumlord!

  79. Anonymous

    Any food store operator looking at the Stonegate during the past decade would have to pass it up. The place is an evident disaster; the Lake Blvd side is ugly, the signage almost non-existent and amateur,exposed electric wiring and cracked parking lot surface, the clock is right twice a day, the front window is boarded up with wood, there is garbage all along the rear and for some reason the loading dock is filled with gravel. The owner claims he has tried in good faith to get a food store operator. Who would want to open a food store in the newest slum in Davis. Clean up your act first then let’s talk. The owner’s request is pitiful and a sham. Why are City staff so actively supporting such a slumlord!

  80. Anonymous

    Any food store operator looking at the Stonegate during the past decade would have to pass it up. The place is an evident disaster; the Lake Blvd side is ugly, the signage almost non-existent and amateur,exposed electric wiring and cracked parking lot surface, the clock is right twice a day, the front window is boarded up with wood, there is garbage all along the rear and for some reason the loading dock is filled with gravel. The owner claims he has tried in good faith to get a food store operator. Who would want to open a food store in the newest slum in Davis. Clean up your act first then let’s talk. The owner’s request is pitiful and a sham. Why are City staff so actively supporting such a slumlord!

  81. Anonymous

    Most grocers aggressively seek opporunties to expand their store base. Potential incoming grocers must not like either the space and location available or competitive mix in Davis with 2 Safeways, 2 Nuggets, the old albertsons and the Co-op.

    That may not serve the citizens in West Davis as they would like, but it appears to be reality. 15000 or 7000 sq foot full service grocery stores are almost unheard of today, except in the very, very densely populated areas. The city cannot legislate a grocer to locate there, nor can they legislate success for the grocer. They can provide economic incentives to entice the grocer like tax abatement and low cost financing to fund improvements. Perhaps Davis residents would consider additional development in the area to increase the population and create enough demand to entice a grocer.

    I’m in favor of the Davis being a leader in the “green movement”. But that means the city (and therefore its residents) must provide the incentives and the impetus for businesses to do what they want. Generally, businesses will not sacrifice economically – they do what is best for them economically, hopefully with at least a moderately long term view.

  82. Anonymous

    Most grocers aggressively seek opporunties to expand their store base. Potential incoming grocers must not like either the space and location available or competitive mix in Davis with 2 Safeways, 2 Nuggets, the old albertsons and the Co-op.

    That may not serve the citizens in West Davis as they would like, but it appears to be reality. 15000 or 7000 sq foot full service grocery stores are almost unheard of today, except in the very, very densely populated areas. The city cannot legislate a grocer to locate there, nor can they legislate success for the grocer. They can provide economic incentives to entice the grocer like tax abatement and low cost financing to fund improvements. Perhaps Davis residents would consider additional development in the area to increase the population and create enough demand to entice a grocer.

    I’m in favor of the Davis being a leader in the “green movement”. But that means the city (and therefore its residents) must provide the incentives and the impetus for businesses to do what they want. Generally, businesses will not sacrifice economically – they do what is best for them economically, hopefully with at least a moderately long term view.

  83. Anonymous

    Most grocers aggressively seek opporunties to expand their store base. Potential incoming grocers must not like either the space and location available or competitive mix in Davis with 2 Safeways, 2 Nuggets, the old albertsons and the Co-op.

    That may not serve the citizens in West Davis as they would like, but it appears to be reality. 15000 or 7000 sq foot full service grocery stores are almost unheard of today, except in the very, very densely populated areas. The city cannot legislate a grocer to locate there, nor can they legislate success for the grocer. They can provide economic incentives to entice the grocer like tax abatement and low cost financing to fund improvements. Perhaps Davis residents would consider additional development in the area to increase the population and create enough demand to entice a grocer.

    I’m in favor of the Davis being a leader in the “green movement”. But that means the city (and therefore its residents) must provide the incentives and the impetus for businesses to do what they want. Generally, businesses will not sacrifice economically – they do what is best for them economically, hopefully with at least a moderately long term view.

  84. Anonymous

    Most grocers aggressively seek opporunties to expand their store base. Potential incoming grocers must not like either the space and location available or competitive mix in Davis with 2 Safeways, 2 Nuggets, the old albertsons and the Co-op.

    That may not serve the citizens in West Davis as they would like, but it appears to be reality. 15000 or 7000 sq foot full service grocery stores are almost unheard of today, except in the very, very densely populated areas. The city cannot legislate a grocer to locate there, nor can they legislate success for the grocer. They can provide economic incentives to entice the grocer like tax abatement and low cost financing to fund improvements. Perhaps Davis residents would consider additional development in the area to increase the population and create enough demand to entice a grocer.

    I’m in favor of the Davis being a leader in the “green movement”. But that means the city (and therefore its residents) must provide the incentives and the impetus for businesses to do what they want. Generally, businesses will not sacrifice economically – they do what is best for them economically, hopefully with at least a moderately long term view.

  85. Want west davis store

    West Davis Reep, I agree with you completely. The previous stores were in fact “crappy” as you say.

    If there was a better store with good prices and better quality food and products…then it would be successful.

    I too used to drive to Safeway to avoid the crappy Ray’s mkt or Food Fair.

  86. Want west davis store

    West Davis Reep, I agree with you completely. The previous stores were in fact “crappy” as you say.

    If there was a better store with good prices and better quality food and products…then it would be successful.

    I too used to drive to Safeway to avoid the crappy Ray’s mkt or Food Fair.

  87. Want west davis store

    West Davis Reep, I agree with you completely. The previous stores were in fact “crappy” as you say.

    If there was a better store with good prices and better quality food and products…then it would be successful.

    I too used to drive to Safeway to avoid the crappy Ray’s mkt or Food Fair.

  88. Want west davis store

    West Davis Reep, I agree with you completely. The previous stores were in fact “crappy” as you say.

    If there was a better store with good prices and better quality food and products…then it would be successful.

    I too used to drive to Safeway to avoid the crappy Ray’s mkt or Food Fair.

  89. Anonymous

    We don’t want a liquor store at West Lake Plaza. If the city manager wants one or the owner wants one they can advocate for one in their own neighborhood. We don’t want one.

    We deserve and want a quality food store and it’s time we require people to do their job and find one.

    The one co-op we have is great and we don’t need another one. I don’t think it could be sustained.

    Let’s just do a wider search for a store and I’m sure one can be found.

  90. Anonymous

    We don’t want a liquor store at West Lake Plaza. If the city manager wants one or the owner wants one they can advocate for one in their own neighborhood. We don’t want one.

    We deserve and want a quality food store and it’s time we require people to do their job and find one.

    The one co-op we have is great and we don’t need another one. I don’t think it could be sustained.

    Let’s just do a wider search for a store and I’m sure one can be found.

  91. Anonymous

    We don’t want a liquor store at West Lake Plaza. If the city manager wants one or the owner wants one they can advocate for one in their own neighborhood. We don’t want one.

    We deserve and want a quality food store and it’s time we require people to do their job and find one.

    The one co-op we have is great and we don’t need another one. I don’t think it could be sustained.

    Let’s just do a wider search for a store and I’m sure one can be found.

  92. Anonymous

    We don’t want a liquor store at West Lake Plaza. If the city manager wants one or the owner wants one they can advocate for one in their own neighborhood. We don’t want one.

    We deserve and want a quality food store and it’s time we require people to do their job and find one.

    The one co-op we have is great and we don’t need another one. I don’t think it could be sustained.

    Let’s just do a wider search for a store and I’m sure one can be found.

  93. Anonymous

    Poll question. If a west davis neighborhood store existed, but prices were 10% to 20% higher across the board than the Safeway on Covell/Sycamore, how many West Davis residents would shop at the neighborhood store for goods other than milk/bread and other quick stuff that could also be purchased at a 3,000 sq ft store? Safeway is only 1.5 miles away.

  94. Anonymous

    Poll question. If a west davis neighborhood store existed, but prices were 10% to 20% higher across the board than the Safeway on Covell/Sycamore, how many West Davis residents would shop at the neighborhood store for goods other than milk/bread and other quick stuff that could also be purchased at a 3,000 sq ft store? Safeway is only 1.5 miles away.

  95. Anonymous

    Poll question. If a west davis neighborhood store existed, but prices were 10% to 20% higher across the board than the Safeway on Covell/Sycamore, how many West Davis residents would shop at the neighborhood store for goods other than milk/bread and other quick stuff that could also be purchased at a 3,000 sq ft store? Safeway is only 1.5 miles away.

  96. Anonymous

    Poll question. If a west davis neighborhood store existed, but prices were 10% to 20% higher across the board than the Safeway on Covell/Sycamore, how many West Davis residents would shop at the neighborhood store for goods other than milk/bread and other quick stuff that could also be purchased at a 3,000 sq ft store? Safeway is only 1.5 miles away.

  97. David J. Thompson

    The question of size raised by “Village Gnomes Resident” is a key one for this discussion. With the opening of larger stores since Farmtown opened most of us involved in the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association have recognized that a 23,000 square foot store will not work at Stonegate and we all agree neither will a 15,000 square foot store at this time. We have been willing as a group to modify the existing 15,000 square foot requirement to a lower number. On our part we think that was a show of reasonableness. Our willingness to work with the owner has not been met with the same good faith so far.

    A core group of the WDNMA asked Karl Kruger, former General Manager of the Davis Food Co-op to take a look at the idea of a satellite store of the Davis Food Co-op taking over the Stonegate location. Karl found a mid sized store to be feasible in Stonegate. Our group has looked at a range of smaller stores in the 7,000-10,000 sq foot range. As a number of us are former board members of the Davis Food Co-op we are aware through our visits to other co-ops in the country of many stores in this size range.

    I can vouch that many of the over 100 food co-ops in country are in that same size range. For example, last year I visited the Weaver Street Market in Southern Village, near Carrboro, North Carolina.

    The Southern Village store is the second store of the Weaver Street Market in Carrboro.

    In 2006 they were at 7,100 square feet (retail, storage and office). In 2007 they added square footage to bring them up to 8,200 square feet. They were doing 3.5 million in sales and with the expansion will go up to 5 million. They the same distance from the Southern Village store to the main Carrboro store as Stonegate is from the main store on G Street of the Davis Food Co-op.

    The Southern Village store is in a suburb of 3,000 people which is separated from Carrboro by a freeway.

    The Southern Village store is very attractive and you can visit it at http://www.weaverstreetmarket.coop. Here is what they say.

    Weaver Street Market in Southern Village

    In June of 2002, we opened our second grocery store on Market Street in the Southern Village community in Chapel Hill. We achieved this project with the support of owners and developers who wanted to bring community closer to home. The Southern Village store is a concentrated version of our Carrboro location, offering a full-service twist on our most popular products, many of which are produced in our home store in Carrboro and delivered fresh three times daily.

    This is the type of store that would work in West Davis.
    I am not sure of the size of Lorenzo’s in Winters but it is probably about 15,000 plus square feet. It is a modest sized store which people should visit to see how a smaller store can be attractive.

    Now that the owner has said he’d give five years of free rent to “Fresh and Easy” I think it creates a moment for the Davis Food Co-op to take another look. But it also creates an opportunity for another small retailer to seize the opportunity. No matter who steps forward I want to see West Davis have its own neighborhood store!

  98. David J. Thompson

    The question of size raised by “Village Gnomes Resident” is a key one for this discussion. With the opening of larger stores since Farmtown opened most of us involved in the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association have recognized that a 23,000 square foot store will not work at Stonegate and we all agree neither will a 15,000 square foot store at this time. We have been willing as a group to modify the existing 15,000 square foot requirement to a lower number. On our part we think that was a show of reasonableness. Our willingness to work with the owner has not been met with the same good faith so far.

    A core group of the WDNMA asked Karl Kruger, former General Manager of the Davis Food Co-op to take a look at the idea of a satellite store of the Davis Food Co-op taking over the Stonegate location. Karl found a mid sized store to be feasible in Stonegate. Our group has looked at a range of smaller stores in the 7,000-10,000 sq foot range. As a number of us are former board members of the Davis Food Co-op we are aware through our visits to other co-ops in the country of many stores in this size range.

    I can vouch that many of the over 100 food co-ops in country are in that same size range. For example, last year I visited the Weaver Street Market in Southern Village, near Carrboro, North Carolina.

    The Southern Village store is the second store of the Weaver Street Market in Carrboro.

    In 2006 they were at 7,100 square feet (retail, storage and office). In 2007 they added square footage to bring them up to 8,200 square feet. They were doing 3.5 million in sales and with the expansion will go up to 5 million. They the same distance from the Southern Village store to the main Carrboro store as Stonegate is from the main store on G Street of the Davis Food Co-op.

    The Southern Village store is in a suburb of 3,000 people which is separated from Carrboro by a freeway.

    The Southern Village store is very attractive and you can visit it at http://www.weaverstreetmarket.coop. Here is what they say.

    Weaver Street Market in Southern Village

    In June of 2002, we opened our second grocery store on Market Street in the Southern Village community in Chapel Hill. We achieved this project with the support of owners and developers who wanted to bring community closer to home. The Southern Village store is a concentrated version of our Carrboro location, offering a full-service twist on our most popular products, many of which are produced in our home store in Carrboro and delivered fresh three times daily.

    This is the type of store that would work in West Davis.
    I am not sure of the size of Lorenzo’s in Winters but it is probably about 15,000 plus square feet. It is a modest sized store which people should visit to see how a smaller store can be attractive.

    Now that the owner has said he’d give five years of free rent to “Fresh and Easy” I think it creates a moment for the Davis Food Co-op to take another look. But it also creates an opportunity for another small retailer to seize the opportunity. No matter who steps forward I want to see West Davis have its own neighborhood store!

  99. David J. Thompson

    The question of size raised by “Village Gnomes Resident” is a key one for this discussion. With the opening of larger stores since Farmtown opened most of us involved in the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association have recognized that a 23,000 square foot store will not work at Stonegate and we all agree neither will a 15,000 square foot store at this time. We have been willing as a group to modify the existing 15,000 square foot requirement to a lower number. On our part we think that was a show of reasonableness. Our willingness to work with the owner has not been met with the same good faith so far.

    A core group of the WDNMA asked Karl Kruger, former General Manager of the Davis Food Co-op to take a look at the idea of a satellite store of the Davis Food Co-op taking over the Stonegate location. Karl found a mid sized store to be feasible in Stonegate. Our group has looked at a range of smaller stores in the 7,000-10,000 sq foot range. As a number of us are former board members of the Davis Food Co-op we are aware through our visits to other co-ops in the country of many stores in this size range.

    I can vouch that many of the over 100 food co-ops in country are in that same size range. For example, last year I visited the Weaver Street Market in Southern Village, near Carrboro, North Carolina.

    The Southern Village store is the second store of the Weaver Street Market in Carrboro.

    In 2006 they were at 7,100 square feet (retail, storage and office). In 2007 they added square footage to bring them up to 8,200 square feet. They were doing 3.5 million in sales and with the expansion will go up to 5 million. They the same distance from the Southern Village store to the main Carrboro store as Stonegate is from the main store on G Street of the Davis Food Co-op.

    The Southern Village store is in a suburb of 3,000 people which is separated from Carrboro by a freeway.

    The Southern Village store is very attractive and you can visit it at http://www.weaverstreetmarket.coop. Here is what they say.

    Weaver Street Market in Southern Village

    In June of 2002, we opened our second grocery store on Market Street in the Southern Village community in Chapel Hill. We achieved this project with the support of owners and developers who wanted to bring community closer to home. The Southern Village store is a concentrated version of our Carrboro location, offering a full-service twist on our most popular products, many of which are produced in our home store in Carrboro and delivered fresh three times daily.

    This is the type of store that would work in West Davis.
    I am not sure of the size of Lorenzo’s in Winters but it is probably about 15,000 plus square feet. It is a modest sized store which people should visit to see how a smaller store can be attractive.

    Now that the owner has said he’d give five years of free rent to “Fresh and Easy” I think it creates a moment for the Davis Food Co-op to take another look. But it also creates an opportunity for another small retailer to seize the opportunity. No matter who steps forward I want to see West Davis have its own neighborhood store!

  100. David J. Thompson

    The question of size raised by “Village Gnomes Resident” is a key one for this discussion. With the opening of larger stores since Farmtown opened most of us involved in the West Davis Neighborhood Market Association have recognized that a 23,000 square foot store will not work at Stonegate and we all agree neither will a 15,000 square foot store at this time. We have been willing as a group to modify the existing 15,000 square foot requirement to a lower number. On our part we think that was a show of reasonableness. Our willingness to work with the owner has not been met with the same good faith so far.

    A core group of the WDNMA asked Karl Kruger, former General Manager of the Davis Food Co-op to take a look at the idea of a satellite store of the Davis Food Co-op taking over the Stonegate location. Karl found a mid sized store to be feasible in Stonegate. Our group has looked at a range of smaller stores in the 7,000-10,000 sq foot range. As a number of us are former board members of the Davis Food Co-op we are aware through our visits to other co-ops in the country of many stores in this size range.

    I can vouch that many of the over 100 food co-ops in country are in that same size range. For example, last year I visited the Weaver Street Market in Southern Village, near Carrboro, North Carolina.

    The Southern Village store is the second store of the Weaver Street Market in Carrboro.

    In 2006 they were at 7,100 square feet (retail, storage and office). In 2007 they added square footage to bring them up to 8,200 square feet. They were doing 3.5 million in sales and with the expansion will go up to 5 million. They the same distance from the Southern Village store to the main Carrboro store as Stonegate is from the main store on G Street of the Davis Food Co-op.

    The Southern Village store is in a suburb of 3,000 people which is separated from Carrboro by a freeway.

    The Southern Village store is very attractive and you can visit it at http://www.weaverstreetmarket.coop. Here is what they say.

    Weaver Street Market in Southern Village

    In June of 2002, we opened our second grocery store on Market Street in the Southern Village community in Chapel Hill. We achieved this project with the support of owners and developers who wanted to bring community closer to home. The Southern Village store is a concentrated version of our Carrboro location, offering a full-service twist on our most popular products, many of which are produced in our home store in Carrboro and delivered fresh three times daily.

    This is the type of store that would work in West Davis.
    I am not sure of the size of Lorenzo’s in Winters but it is probably about 15,000 plus square feet. It is a modest sized store which people should visit to see how a smaller store can be attractive.

    Now that the owner has said he’d give five years of free rent to “Fresh and Easy” I think it creates a moment for the Davis Food Co-op to take another look. But it also creates an opportunity for another small retailer to seize the opportunity. No matter who steps forward I want to see West Davis have its own neighborhood store!

  101. Kevin Wolf

    The owners of the West Lake shopping center have no right to rezone this property. The only leverage the city has to ensure a reasonably sized grocery store (min. 7500 sq ft) is kept in the center is to refuse to change the zoning until a lease is secured. If it takes 5 years of free rent and a half million in tenant improvements, so be it.

    A 7500 square foot store allows the owner to convert 15,000 sq ft to offices at around $2-3/sq ft versus what they received originally for the whole space which was around $1/sq foot. They should come out ahead, they just won’t make as much profit as they want.

    The more solid the city council is on this requirement, the more likely the owner will make it profitable for a store to lease there.

    If the owner keeps the store dark and refuses to do what is needed, the city can allow or even help force the sale of just this 23,000 sq ft building. Because of the existing large store zoning requirement, the building won’t have much value. The existing owners likely bought the center much cheaper than market rates because of the zoning restriction.

    By the way, close to 50 supporters of a grocery store were at the planning commission meeting with most (38) staying the four hours it took to get to and through this agenda item. Its the most I have seen at a planning commission meeting. I was surprised to hear the commissioner who said that this was evidence that people didn’t care about losing the store.

  102. Kevin Wolf

    The owners of the West Lake shopping center have no right to rezone this property. The only leverage the city has to ensure a reasonably sized grocery store (min. 7500 sq ft) is kept in the center is to refuse to change the zoning until a lease is secured. If it takes 5 years of free rent and a half million in tenant improvements, so be it.

    A 7500 square foot store allows the owner to convert 15,000 sq ft to offices at around $2-3/sq ft versus what they received originally for the whole space which was around $1/sq foot. They should come out ahead, they just won’t make as much profit as they want.

    The more solid the city council is on this requirement, the more likely the owner will make it profitable for a store to lease there.

    If the owner keeps the store dark and refuses to do what is needed, the city can allow or even help force the sale of just this 23,000 sq ft building. Because of the existing large store zoning requirement, the building won’t have much value. The existing owners likely bought the center much cheaper than market rates because of the zoning restriction.

    By the way, close to 50 supporters of a grocery store were at the planning commission meeting with most (38) staying the four hours it took to get to and through this agenda item. Its the most I have seen at a planning commission meeting. I was surprised to hear the commissioner who said that this was evidence that people didn’t care about losing the store.

  103. Kevin Wolf

    The owners of the West Lake shopping center have no right to rezone this property. The only leverage the city has to ensure a reasonably sized grocery store (min. 7500 sq ft) is kept in the center is to refuse to change the zoning until a lease is secured. If it takes 5 years of free rent and a half million in tenant improvements, so be it.

    A 7500 square foot store allows the owner to convert 15,000 sq ft to offices at around $2-3/sq ft versus what they received originally for the whole space which was around $1/sq foot. They should come out ahead, they just won’t make as much profit as they want.

    The more solid the city council is on this requirement, the more likely the owner will make it profitable for a store to lease there.

    If the owner keeps the store dark and refuses to do what is needed, the city can allow or even help force the sale of just this 23,000 sq ft building. Because of the existing large store zoning requirement, the building won’t have much value. The existing owners likely bought the center much cheaper than market rates because of the zoning restriction.

    By the way, close to 50 supporters of a grocery store were at the planning commission meeting with most (38) staying the four hours it took to get to and through this agenda item. Its the most I have seen at a planning commission meeting. I was surprised to hear the commissioner who said that this was evidence that people didn’t care about losing the store.

  104. Kevin Wolf

    The owners of the West Lake shopping center have no right to rezone this property. The only leverage the city has to ensure a reasonably sized grocery store (min. 7500 sq ft) is kept in the center is to refuse to change the zoning until a lease is secured. If it takes 5 years of free rent and a half million in tenant improvements, so be it.

    A 7500 square foot store allows the owner to convert 15,000 sq ft to offices at around $2-3/sq ft versus what they received originally for the whole space which was around $1/sq foot. They should come out ahead, they just won’t make as much profit as they want.

    The more solid the city council is on this requirement, the more likely the owner will make it profitable for a store to lease there.

    If the owner keeps the store dark and refuses to do what is needed, the city can allow or even help force the sale of just this 23,000 sq ft building. Because of the existing large store zoning requirement, the building won’t have much value. The existing owners likely bought the center much cheaper than market rates because of the zoning restriction.

    By the way, close to 50 supporters of a grocery store were at the planning commission meeting with most (38) staying the four hours it took to get to and through this agenda item. Its the most I have seen at a planning commission meeting. I was surprised to hear the commissioner who said that this was evidence that people didn’t care about losing the store.

  105. West Davis resident

    The commissioner who made that comment is obviously not very attentive to other meetings and how many people do or do not show up to meetings. I’m sure many wrote emails, or made calls. I know I did.

    I didn’t show up because I have responsibilities that I could not set aside, but I want West Davis to have a good grocery store, so that I don’t have to waste gas driving across town.

  106. West Davis resident

    The commissioner who made that comment is obviously not very attentive to other meetings and how many people do or do not show up to meetings. I’m sure many wrote emails, or made calls. I know I did.

    I didn’t show up because I have responsibilities that I could not set aside, but I want West Davis to have a good grocery store, so that I don’t have to waste gas driving across town.

  107. West Davis resident

    The commissioner who made that comment is obviously not very attentive to other meetings and how many people do or do not show up to meetings. I’m sure many wrote emails, or made calls. I know I did.

    I didn’t show up because I have responsibilities that I could not set aside, but I want West Davis to have a good grocery store, so that I don’t have to waste gas driving across town.

  108. West Davis resident

    The commissioner who made that comment is obviously not very attentive to other meetings and how many people do or do not show up to meetings. I’m sure many wrote emails, or made calls. I know I did.

    I didn’t show up because I have responsibilities that I could not set aside, but I want West Davis to have a good grocery store, so that I don’t have to waste gas driving across town.

  109. west davis mommie

    Also worth mentioning is the “new tenant” of the 3000 sq ft store was none other than the former operator of Food Faire. Are you kidding me???? How dare the owner insult us by saying that this new store would be different from the old one, ie better quality, fresh, clean etc etc when its the same guy that ran it into the ground last time. I appauld the members of the commision that rejected his proposal and hopefully he will see that this neighborhood means business and is not just going to roll over and let him take away our local store.

  110. west davis mommie

    Also worth mentioning is the “new tenant” of the 3000 sq ft store was none other than the former operator of Food Faire. Are you kidding me???? How dare the owner insult us by saying that this new store would be different from the old one, ie better quality, fresh, clean etc etc when its the same guy that ran it into the ground last time. I appauld the members of the commision that rejected his proposal and hopefully he will see that this neighborhood means business and is not just going to roll over and let him take away our local store.

  111. west davis mommie

    Also worth mentioning is the “new tenant” of the 3000 sq ft store was none other than the former operator of Food Faire. Are you kidding me???? How dare the owner insult us by saying that this new store would be different from the old one, ie better quality, fresh, clean etc etc when its the same guy that ran it into the ground last time. I appauld the members of the commision that rejected his proposal and hopefully he will see that this neighborhood means business and is not just going to roll over and let him take away our local store.

  112. west davis mommie

    Also worth mentioning is the “new tenant” of the 3000 sq ft store was none other than the former operator of Food Faire. Are you kidding me???? How dare the owner insult us by saying that this new store would be different from the old one, ie better quality, fresh, clean etc etc when its the same guy that ran it into the ground last time. I appauld the members of the commision that rejected his proposal and hopefully he will see that this neighborhood means business and is not just going to roll over and let him take away our local store.

  113. K2Dad

    Related to a grocery store at Westlake Plaza, the primary concern for the city and prospective grocery concerns is the viability of a store. Unless the city provides supplemental funding to offset the losses, the business must generate a profit on its own merit. The history of Westlake Plaza grocery is one of failed stores. There is reason to be concerned about the viability of this location.
    Having lived in the Stonegate neighborhood for the last 20 years, I have first-hand experience shopping at both of these past stores: Rays Market and Food Fair. While Rays Market started out strong, it declined over time. Food Fair seemed a half-hearted attempt from the start. The selection, the product quality and the service quality were sub-standard. Certainly the demographics and population of west Davis may have been a contributing factor, but I am absolutely certain that low-quality was the primary reason these two stores failed.
    People in Davis will drive 10-15 minutes to shop at high-quality Nugget Market. This fact, coupled with the large number of west Davis residents that support having a grocery store in their neighborhood, is enough to convince me that the West Lake Plaza location is viable.

  114. K2Dad

    Related to a grocery store at Westlake Plaza, the primary concern for the city and prospective grocery concerns is the viability of a store. Unless the city provides supplemental funding to offset the losses, the business must generate a profit on its own merit. The history of Westlake Plaza grocery is one of failed stores. There is reason to be concerned about the viability of this location.
    Having lived in the Stonegate neighborhood for the last 20 years, I have first-hand experience shopping at both of these past stores: Rays Market and Food Fair. While Rays Market started out strong, it declined over time. Food Fair seemed a half-hearted attempt from the start. The selection, the product quality and the service quality were sub-standard. Certainly the demographics and population of west Davis may have been a contributing factor, but I am absolutely certain that low-quality was the primary reason these two stores failed.
    People in Davis will drive 10-15 minutes to shop at high-quality Nugget Market. This fact, coupled with the large number of west Davis residents that support having a grocery store in their neighborhood, is enough to convince me that the West Lake Plaza location is viable.

  115. K2Dad

    Related to a grocery store at Westlake Plaza, the primary concern for the city and prospective grocery concerns is the viability of a store. Unless the city provides supplemental funding to offset the losses, the business must generate a profit on its own merit. The history of Westlake Plaza grocery is one of failed stores. There is reason to be concerned about the viability of this location.
    Having lived in the Stonegate neighborhood for the last 20 years, I have first-hand experience shopping at both of these past stores: Rays Market and Food Fair. While Rays Market started out strong, it declined over time. Food Fair seemed a half-hearted attempt from the start. The selection, the product quality and the service quality were sub-standard. Certainly the demographics and population of west Davis may have been a contributing factor, but I am absolutely certain that low-quality was the primary reason these two stores failed.
    People in Davis will drive 10-15 minutes to shop at high-quality Nugget Market. This fact, coupled with the large number of west Davis residents that support having a grocery store in their neighborhood, is enough to convince me that the West Lake Plaza location is viable.

  116. K2Dad

    Related to a grocery store at Westlake Plaza, the primary concern for the city and prospective grocery concerns is the viability of a store. Unless the city provides supplemental funding to offset the losses, the business must generate a profit on its own merit. The history of Westlake Plaza grocery is one of failed stores. There is reason to be concerned about the viability of this location.
    Having lived in the Stonegate neighborhood for the last 20 years, I have first-hand experience shopping at both of these past stores: Rays Market and Food Fair. While Rays Market started out strong, it declined over time. Food Fair seemed a half-hearted attempt from the start. The selection, the product quality and the service quality were sub-standard. Certainly the demographics and population of west Davis may have been a contributing factor, but I am absolutely certain that low-quality was the primary reason these two stores failed.
    People in Davis will drive 10-15 minutes to shop at high-quality Nugget Market. This fact, coupled with the large number of west Davis residents that support having a grocery store in their neighborhood, is enough to convince me that the West Lake Plaza location is viable.

  117. Anonymous

    Ray’s Market claimed it would be better than Farm Town. Food Fair promised to update after Ray’s left, yet even the same expired inventory remained. If the canned tomatoes, Jell-O (!), and ‘fresh’ dairy products were often seriously out of date, why buy MEAT there?

    West Davis residents can’t shop locally, nor can the GATE kids go to school in West Davis for either elementary or junior high. This should be a ‘green’ issue as well.

  118. Anonymous

    Ray’s Market claimed it would be better than Farm Town. Food Fair promised to update after Ray’s left, yet even the same expired inventory remained. If the canned tomatoes, Jell-O (!), and ‘fresh’ dairy products were often seriously out of date, why buy MEAT there?

    West Davis residents can’t shop locally, nor can the GATE kids go to school in West Davis for either elementary or junior high. This should be a ‘green’ issue as well.

  119. Anonymous

    Ray’s Market claimed it would be better than Farm Town. Food Fair promised to update after Ray’s left, yet even the same expired inventory remained. If the canned tomatoes, Jell-O (!), and ‘fresh’ dairy products were often seriously out of date, why buy MEAT there?

    West Davis residents can’t shop locally, nor can the GATE kids go to school in West Davis for either elementary or junior high. This should be a ‘green’ issue as well.

  120. Anonymous

    Ray’s Market claimed it would be better than Farm Town. Food Fair promised to update after Ray’s left, yet even the same expired inventory remained. If the canned tomatoes, Jell-O (!), and ‘fresh’ dairy products were often seriously out of date, why buy MEAT there?

    West Davis residents can’t shop locally, nor can the GATE kids go to school in West Davis for either elementary or junior high. This should be a ‘green’ issue as well.

  121. Kevin Wolf

    Any decision made by our elected officials that increases driving should be scrutinized very carefully. Losing neighborhood stores like the one we lost in east Davis created hardship for people who don’t drive and resulted in more driving. The school board should not centralize GATE as it causes more driving, twice a day to drop off and pick up the kids. Reducing driving needs to be a major factor in all their decisions and not be left out or taken lightly.

  122. Kevin Wolf

    Any decision made by our elected officials that increases driving should be scrutinized very carefully. Losing neighborhood stores like the one we lost in east Davis created hardship for people who don’t drive and resulted in more driving. The school board should not centralize GATE as it causes more driving, twice a day to drop off and pick up the kids. Reducing driving needs to be a major factor in all their decisions and not be left out or taken lightly.

  123. Kevin Wolf

    Any decision made by our elected officials that increases driving should be scrutinized very carefully. Losing neighborhood stores like the one we lost in east Davis created hardship for people who don’t drive and resulted in more driving. The school board should not centralize GATE as it causes more driving, twice a day to drop off and pick up the kids. Reducing driving needs to be a major factor in all their decisions and not be left out or taken lightly.

  124. Kevin Wolf

    Any decision made by our elected officials that increases driving should be scrutinized very carefully. Losing neighborhood stores like the one we lost in east Davis created hardship for people who don’t drive and resulted in more driving. The school board should not centralize GATE as it causes more driving, twice a day to drop off and pick up the kids. Reducing driving needs to be a major factor in all their decisions and not be left out or taken lightly.

  125. Anonymous

    The majority of the Planning Commission are to be commended for questioning the due diligence of the owner and for recognizing the long-term consequences of granting the rezoning request. Doug Paul is correct in saying that granting this request would be a bail out for a neglectful property owner.

    Perhaps someone with connections to the Davis Food Co-Op could suggest they take another look at the site, since there may be a free 5-yr rent offer available.

    Has anyone seen the waiting list of potential office renters that the owner claims to have, and where is the evidence that converting the existing space to offices will ensure the viability of the existing businesses?

  126. Anonymous

    The majority of the Planning Commission are to be commended for questioning the due diligence of the owner and for recognizing the long-term consequences of granting the rezoning request. Doug Paul is correct in saying that granting this request would be a bail out for a neglectful property owner.

    Perhaps someone with connections to the Davis Food Co-Op could suggest they take another look at the site, since there may be a free 5-yr rent offer available.

    Has anyone seen the waiting list of potential office renters that the owner claims to have, and where is the evidence that converting the existing space to offices will ensure the viability of the existing businesses?

  127. Anonymous

    The majority of the Planning Commission are to be commended for questioning the due diligence of the owner and for recognizing the long-term consequences of granting the rezoning request. Doug Paul is correct in saying that granting this request would be a bail out for a neglectful property owner.

    Perhaps someone with connections to the Davis Food Co-Op could suggest they take another look at the site, since there may be a free 5-yr rent offer available.

    Has anyone seen the waiting list of potential office renters that the owner claims to have, and where is the evidence that converting the existing space to offices will ensure the viability of the existing businesses?

  128. Anonymous

    The majority of the Planning Commission are to be commended for questioning the due diligence of the owner and for recognizing the long-term consequences of granting the rezoning request. Doug Paul is correct in saying that granting this request would be a bail out for a neglectful property owner.

    Perhaps someone with connections to the Davis Food Co-Op could suggest they take another look at the site, since there may be a free 5-yr rent offer available.

    Has anyone seen the waiting list of potential office renters that the owner claims to have, and where is the evidence that converting the existing space to offices will ensure the viability of the existing businesses?

  129. david j. thompson

    The Stonegate owner proposes a 3,000 square foot store that he says will meet the food needs of West Davis. We already have a Circle K store a few blocks away. I learned the intended operator still has the liquor license from Food Fair. So the big advantage is that the proposed 3,000 square foot store at Stonegate can sell liquor and the Circle K cannot. So we are promised that a change in city policy will guarantee that West Davis will finally get back its’ liquor store but not a grocery store.

  130. david j. thompson

    The Stonegate owner proposes a 3,000 square foot store that he says will meet the food needs of West Davis. We already have a Circle K store a few blocks away. I learned the intended operator still has the liquor license from Food Fair. So the big advantage is that the proposed 3,000 square foot store at Stonegate can sell liquor and the Circle K cannot. So we are promised that a change in city policy will guarantee that West Davis will finally get back its’ liquor store but not a grocery store.

  131. david j. thompson

    The Stonegate owner proposes a 3,000 square foot store that he says will meet the food needs of West Davis. We already have a Circle K store a few blocks away. I learned the intended operator still has the liquor license from Food Fair. So the big advantage is that the proposed 3,000 square foot store at Stonegate can sell liquor and the Circle K cannot. So we are promised that a change in city policy will guarantee that West Davis will finally get back its’ liquor store but not a grocery store.

  132. david j. thompson

    The Stonegate owner proposes a 3,000 square foot store that he says will meet the food needs of West Davis. We already have a Circle K store a few blocks away. I learned the intended operator still has the liquor license from Food Fair. So the big advantage is that the proposed 3,000 square foot store at Stonegate can sell liquor and the Circle K cannot. So we are promised that a change in city policy will guarantee that West Davis will finally get back its’ liquor store but not a grocery store.

  133. Marcelo Campos

    As the saying goes: “the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.”
    I believe that those who find the argument: three strikes you’re out — Farmtown, Ray’s and Food Fair–applicable here are failing to grasp the fact that a marginal operation killed the bussinesses above not a marginal location. The “insanity” here was repeating the model of a poorly run biz not a foodstore in that particular location.
    The Davis Food Coop is in a location that a food store operator would call marginal or outright undesirable. Yet, the Coop is profitable, vibrant, indeed a succesful watering hole.
    Perhaps, for a corporate type the bottom line the Coop shows would not be acceptable… If the Coop were to move to a different location and abandon the “G” street
    site in search of a more profitable spot it would be a tragedy for the downtown. Likewise, the permanent loss of a west Davis food store would be tragic.

  134. Marcelo Campos

    As the saying goes: “the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.”
    I believe that those who find the argument: three strikes you’re out — Farmtown, Ray’s and Food Fair–applicable here are failing to grasp the fact that a marginal operation killed the bussinesses above not a marginal location. The “insanity” here was repeating the model of a poorly run biz not a foodstore in that particular location.
    The Davis Food Coop is in a location that a food store operator would call marginal or outright undesirable. Yet, the Coop is profitable, vibrant, indeed a succesful watering hole.
    Perhaps, for a corporate type the bottom line the Coop shows would not be acceptable… If the Coop were to move to a different location and abandon the “G” street
    site in search of a more profitable spot it would be a tragedy for the downtown. Likewise, the permanent loss of a west Davis food store would be tragic.

  135. Marcelo Campos

    As the saying goes: “the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.”
    I believe that those who find the argument: three strikes you’re out — Farmtown, Ray’s and Food Fair–applicable here are failing to grasp the fact that a marginal operation killed the bussinesses above not a marginal location. The “insanity” here was repeating the model of a poorly run biz not a foodstore in that particular location.
    The Davis Food Coop is in a location that a food store operator would call marginal or outright undesirable. Yet, the Coop is profitable, vibrant, indeed a succesful watering hole.
    Perhaps, for a corporate type the bottom line the Coop shows would not be acceptable… If the Coop were to move to a different location and abandon the “G” street
    site in search of a more profitable spot it would be a tragedy for the downtown. Likewise, the permanent loss of a west Davis food store would be tragic.

  136. Marcelo Campos

    As the saying goes: “the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.”
    I believe that those who find the argument: three strikes you’re out — Farmtown, Ray’s and Food Fair–applicable here are failing to grasp the fact that a marginal operation killed the bussinesses above not a marginal location. The “insanity” here was repeating the model of a poorly run biz not a foodstore in that particular location.
    The Davis Food Coop is in a location that a food store operator would call marginal or outright undesirable. Yet, the Coop is profitable, vibrant, indeed a succesful watering hole.
    Perhaps, for a corporate type the bottom line the Coop shows would not be acceptable… If the Coop were to move to a different location and abandon the “G” street
    site in search of a more profitable spot it would be a tragedy for the downtown. Likewise, the permanent loss of a west Davis food store would be tragic.

  137. Anonymous

    This is amusing. West Davis residents are making the property owner’s case for him.

    First, the site has been vacant for 1.5 years. Why? The West Davis market isn’t good. If it were, there would be a tenant.

    Second, all previous grocers have been 4th-tier grocers that likely operated on a thin margin.

    Third, why is expired fruit left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired meat left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired cans left for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it before then.

    West Davis is not a good market.

    Fourth, West Davis is only 1/4 of a market. Most grocers want a full circle of x distance when they assess the potential market. Since there is virtually no market west of Lake Blvd and 1/4 of West Davis is closer to Safeway than Westlake Shopping center, the market isn’t viable.

    Fifth, West Davis sued UCD opposing the West Village project. While it was rightfully thrown out of court..twice…West Davis, in its wisdom was successful in eliminating access to Russell. With that went any hope of additional Westlake shopping center market potential.

    Sixth, if I’m a specialty grocer, I go to Davis manor before Westlake because of the full circle market, not the half that Westlake represents.

    Seventh, the neighborhood grocery store model doesn’t work anymore. That’s why Mace Ranch doesn’t have a grocery store and why Ralph’s closed. It doesn’t compete and Wes Davis has proven that as most people shopped at Safeway because it was cheaper, better stocked, and higher quality. West Davis will never get a 1st or 2nd tier grocery/specialty store because of its market and location.

    What will happen if the zoning stays is it will sit dormant for x number of years. The owner will sell, the new owner will repeat the cycle.

    It’s time for West Davis to stop pointing the finger at everyone else. You can say we just need to try harder but the market doesn’t lie. West Davis exercised its market power by shopping at grocery stores other than the one in its neighborhood. The grocery store market is responding by not filling the vacancy.

  138. Anonymous

    This is amusing. West Davis residents are making the property owner’s case for him.

    First, the site has been vacant for 1.5 years. Why? The West Davis market isn’t good. If it were, there would be a tenant.

    Second, all previous grocers have been 4th-tier grocers that likely operated on a thin margin.

    Third, why is expired fruit left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired meat left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired cans left for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it before then.

    West Davis is not a good market.

    Fourth, West Davis is only 1/4 of a market. Most grocers want a full circle of x distance when they assess the potential market. Since there is virtually no market west of Lake Blvd and 1/4 of West Davis is closer to Safeway than Westlake Shopping center, the market isn’t viable.

    Fifth, West Davis sued UCD opposing the West Village project. While it was rightfully thrown out of court..twice…West Davis, in its wisdom was successful in eliminating access to Russell. With that went any hope of additional Westlake shopping center market potential.

    Sixth, if I’m a specialty grocer, I go to Davis manor before Westlake because of the full circle market, not the half that Westlake represents.

    Seventh, the neighborhood grocery store model doesn’t work anymore. That’s why Mace Ranch doesn’t have a grocery store and why Ralph’s closed. It doesn’t compete and Wes Davis has proven that as most people shopped at Safeway because it was cheaper, better stocked, and higher quality. West Davis will never get a 1st or 2nd tier grocery/specialty store because of its market and location.

    What will happen if the zoning stays is it will sit dormant for x number of years. The owner will sell, the new owner will repeat the cycle.

    It’s time for West Davis to stop pointing the finger at everyone else. You can say we just need to try harder but the market doesn’t lie. West Davis exercised its market power by shopping at grocery stores other than the one in its neighborhood. The grocery store market is responding by not filling the vacancy.

  139. Anonymous

    This is amusing. West Davis residents are making the property owner’s case for him.

    First, the site has been vacant for 1.5 years. Why? The West Davis market isn’t good. If it were, there would be a tenant.

    Second, all previous grocers have been 4th-tier grocers that likely operated on a thin margin.

    Third, why is expired fruit left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired meat left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired cans left for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it before then.

    West Davis is not a good market.

    Fourth, West Davis is only 1/4 of a market. Most grocers want a full circle of x distance when they assess the potential market. Since there is virtually no market west of Lake Blvd and 1/4 of West Davis is closer to Safeway than Westlake Shopping center, the market isn’t viable.

    Fifth, West Davis sued UCD opposing the West Village project. While it was rightfully thrown out of court..twice…West Davis, in its wisdom was successful in eliminating access to Russell. With that went any hope of additional Westlake shopping center market potential.

    Sixth, if I’m a specialty grocer, I go to Davis manor before Westlake because of the full circle market, not the half that Westlake represents.

    Seventh, the neighborhood grocery store model doesn’t work anymore. That’s why Mace Ranch doesn’t have a grocery store and why Ralph’s closed. It doesn’t compete and Wes Davis has proven that as most people shopped at Safeway because it was cheaper, better stocked, and higher quality. West Davis will never get a 1st or 2nd tier grocery/specialty store because of its market and location.

    What will happen if the zoning stays is it will sit dormant for x number of years. The owner will sell, the new owner will repeat the cycle.

    It’s time for West Davis to stop pointing the finger at everyone else. You can say we just need to try harder but the market doesn’t lie. West Davis exercised its market power by shopping at grocery stores other than the one in its neighborhood. The grocery store market is responding by not filling the vacancy.

  140. Anonymous

    This is amusing. West Davis residents are making the property owner’s case for him.

    First, the site has been vacant for 1.5 years. Why? The West Davis market isn’t good. If it were, there would be a tenant.

    Second, all previous grocers have been 4th-tier grocers that likely operated on a thin margin.

    Third, why is expired fruit left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired meat left out for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it when it was fresh.

    Why was expired cans left for sale? Because West Davis residents didn’t buy it before then.

    West Davis is not a good market.

    Fourth, West Davis is only 1/4 of a market. Most grocers want a full circle of x distance when they assess the potential market. Since there is virtually no market west of Lake Blvd and 1/4 of West Davis is closer to Safeway than Westlake Shopping center, the market isn’t viable.

    Fifth, West Davis sued UCD opposing the West Village project. While it was rightfully thrown out of court..twice…West Davis, in its wisdom was successful in eliminating access to Russell. With that went any hope of additional Westlake shopping center market potential.

    Sixth, if I’m a specialty grocer, I go to Davis manor before Westlake because of the full circle market, not the half that Westlake represents.

    Seventh, the neighborhood grocery store model doesn’t work anymore. That’s why Mace Ranch doesn’t have a grocery store and why Ralph’s closed. It doesn’t compete and Wes Davis has proven that as most people shopped at Safeway because it was cheaper, better stocked, and higher quality. West Davis will never get a 1st or 2nd tier grocery/specialty store because of its market and location.

    What will happen if the zoning stays is it will sit dormant for x number of years. The owner will sell, the new owner will repeat the cycle.

    It’s time for West Davis to stop pointing the finger at everyone else. You can say we just need to try harder but the market doesn’t lie. West Davis exercised its market power by shopping at grocery stores other than the one in its neighborhood. The grocery store market is responding by not filling the vacancy.

  141. Leslie M-B

    I lived in West Davis in 97-98, in the apartment complex next to Ray’s, and I had no problem finding decent food there. In 2004, I moved back to West Davis and found just about everything in the store had expired.

    I’m one of those people who will not only drive across town, passing several other grocery stores, to go to the North Davis Nugget, but will also pay higher prices if need be to get the food I want.

    What I’d really like to see in that shopping center is a very good deli. When I’m not feeling like making a meal, it would be terrific to be able to walk over there for a sandwich.

    Of course, Trader Joe’s would be my dream tenant. How many people in Davis drive out of town to go shopping at TJ’s now? Would these same people not drive out to West Davis instead? All the TJ’s I’ve been to (about half a dozen of them) have pretty serious parking problems, and I don’t see how one will fit at all in University Mall.

  142. Leslie M-B

    I lived in West Davis in 97-98, in the apartment complex next to Ray’s, and I had no problem finding decent food there. In 2004, I moved back to West Davis and found just about everything in the store had expired.

    I’m one of those people who will not only drive across town, passing several other grocery stores, to go to the North Davis Nugget, but will also pay higher prices if need be to get the food I want.

    What I’d really like to see in that shopping center is a very good deli. When I’m not feeling like making a meal, it would be terrific to be able to walk over there for a sandwich.

    Of course, Trader Joe’s would be my dream tenant. How many people in Davis drive out of town to go shopping at TJ’s now? Would these same people not drive out to West Davis instead? All the TJ’s I’ve been to (about half a dozen of them) have pretty serious parking problems, and I don’t see how one will fit at all in University Mall.

  143. Leslie M-B

    I lived in West Davis in 97-98, in the apartment complex next to Ray’s, and I had no problem finding decent food there. In 2004, I moved back to West Davis and found just about everything in the store had expired.

    I’m one of those people who will not only drive across town, passing several other grocery stores, to go to the North Davis Nugget, but will also pay higher prices if need be to get the food I want.

    What I’d really like to see in that shopping center is a very good deli. When I’m not feeling like making a meal, it would be terrific to be able to walk over there for a sandwich.

    Of course, Trader Joe’s would be my dream tenant. How many people in Davis drive out of town to go shopping at TJ’s now? Would these same people not drive out to West Davis instead? All the TJ’s I’ve been to (about half a dozen of them) have pretty serious parking problems, and I don’t see how one will fit at all in University Mall.

  144. Leslie M-B

    I lived in West Davis in 97-98, in the apartment complex next to Ray’s, and I had no problem finding decent food there. In 2004, I moved back to West Davis and found just about everything in the store had expired.

    I’m one of those people who will not only drive across town, passing several other grocery stores, to go to the North Davis Nugget, but will also pay higher prices if need be to get the food I want.

    What I’d really like to see in that shopping center is a very good deli. When I’m not feeling like making a meal, it would be terrific to be able to walk over there for a sandwich.

    Of course, Trader Joe’s would be my dream tenant. How many people in Davis drive out of town to go shopping at TJ’s now? Would these same people not drive out to West Davis instead? All the TJ’s I’ve been to (about half a dozen of them) have pretty serious parking problems, and I don’t see how one will fit at all in University Mall.

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