Guest Commentary: Where’s the Fire?

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Word To The Wise: Where’s The Fire?

By E.A. Roberts

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The first ever Senior Academy was held on February 28, 2008. This project was the brainchild of Trease Petersen of the Davis Police Department, and also sponsored by the Yolo County District Attorney’s Office. Approximately fifty highly motivated seniors attended, which made for some quite lively discussion. One elderly citizen posed a provocative question to Emily Lo of the Davis Fire Department, asking about a recent column that appeared in the Davis Enterprise.

In the newspaper, columnist Rich Rifkin had expressed frustration that a full contingent of fire trucks with equipment would show up along with ambulance service, for a simple medical emergency. His contention was this overkill seemed unnecessary. He has since followed up with another editorial, highly critical of past and present City Council members on a related issue. Sizable salaries, pensions and medical benefits for city fire/police personnel are of great concern. The fear is Davis may be headed for bankruptcy as is threatened in Vallejo.

As it was explained to those of us seated in the audience at the Senior Academy, ambulance service in Davis is contracted out to a private company (AMR) in one location. On the other hand, the city has three fire departments strategically located throughout the community. By the way, it is in need of a fourth station, because of all the new housing developments that have been built in north, south and east Davis over the past several years. The operational area of the city’s fire departments covers not only the city, but Highway 113 and the Yolo Causeway as well.

If a call comes in for a car crash on Route 80, it is not uncommon for the receipt of another emergency dispatch message, while personnel and equipment are at the accident scene. Multiple alarms such as this occur with great frequency, requiring a fire station to “move up and cover” the next request for assistance, without having to go back to the station to pick up what was left behind in either manpower or equipment. This type of “move up and cover” situation in the Davis operational area has happened 800 times in the last year.

Furthermore, every fireperson is EMT trained, which allows them to stabilize a patient if the ambulance has not yet arrived. Ambulance lag time can happen if the call comes in from the opposite side of town from where AMR headquarters is situated. Because the city’s fire department has three stations advantageously located, fire personnel frequently arrive ahead of any ambulance service. That one or two minute discrepancy can mean the difference between life or death for some critically ill citizens. A rapid response time (maximum strived for is five minutes) is all important in a medical emergency.

If the incident in question is an automobile accident, several people may be hurt. This will require far more paramedics than what a single ambulance may carry. Even for a simple medical emergency, one person will take vital signs, while another is doing chest compressions, and another is collecting information, as another quickly collects medications and soothes distressed family members. It should also be noted firefighters get paid whether they are sitting back at the fire station or are out in the field.

Firefighter Lo imparted some other invaluable information as well. She advised the elderly audience to consider preventing falls – the highest incident call the fire department receives. Simple things suggested were the removal of small mats that can be tripped over; installation of grab bars in the shower; or provision of appropriate lighting where necessary. Smoke alarms that can be installed with a ten year shelf life without changing batteries are now available. It was my understanding the fire department will provide and install smoke alarms upon request.

Everyone was advised to have a disaster preparedness plan in place, and a minimum of whatever is necessary (e.g. food, water, batteries, battery operated or hand crank radio) to survive in place for three days. Emergency kits in the form of backpacks can be purchased at Home Depot in Woodland. The kits can then be inserted in a small suitcase with wheels, for easy transport. Emergency contact numbers should be placed under the acronym ICE (In Case of Emergency) in your cell phone directory. A copy of any DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) order should be placed on your refrigerator.

Whether or not the reader objects to the liberal salaries fire and police are paid is an entirely separate matter; or that they are allowed to “double dip” (collect a pension from one employer while working for or receiving a pension from another). This subject has come up quite frequently at City Council meetings of late. I can remember Mayor Greenwald repeatedly demanding to know how the city was going to pay for these generous reimbursement packages. Councilman Souza insisted Davis would somehow manage, it always does.

My comment to that is the Davis School Board probably said the same thing in the past. But look at what has happened since – the school district is actually being forced to close schools to make ends meet. I have never believed in engaging in the ostrich syndrome – that allows politicians to hide their heads in the sand. It is important to make some attempt to divert potential disasters. Think HURRICANE KATRINA! “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”

However, what do we do now, since these generous salary packages are already in place? It is one thing to complain about what has gone on in the past, but quite another to determine how the city is going to keep paying for it. If I remember correctly, our chief financial officer stated he was certain the city’s budget gap would be closed within the next five years. Yet as Mayor Greenwald pointed out, not taken into account was the payout of employee benefits due and owing in the future. That appears shortsighted at best, disingenuous or downright dishonest at worst.

Also speaking at the Senior Academy was Dave Edwards from the Yolo County District Attorney’s Office. Identity theft was his main topic of interest. Seniors were warned that because they are primarily the ones with the financial wherewithal, it makes them a prime target of predatory con artists. The elderly were advised to limit the information carried on their person; not to give out date of birth, Social Security or Drivers License Numbers to anyone unless absolutely necessary (especially over the telephone); and to monitor their finances (www.AnnualCreditReport.com; 1-877-322-8228) and take quick action if something is amiss.

All trash should be shredded if any personal or financial information shows on it. If your identity is stolen, then the following steps need to be taken: 1) notify the credit card company; 2) contact one of the major credit reporting agencies (Equifax: 1-800-525-6285; Experian: 1-888-EXERIAN; TransUnion: 1-800-680-7289); 3) put a fraud alert on your account; 4) contact each creditor of a fraudulent account (I would advise doing it in writing); 5) report the incident to law enforcement, and get a copy of the police report; 6) contact the Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov/idtheft; 1-877-IDTHEFT); 7) close out all tampered accounts. Identity theft destroys the ability to obtain credit, and can subject the victim to harassment by collection agencies. DETER, DETECT, DEFEND.

Detective Bezuglov of the Davis Police Department talked extensively about cyber crime, of which identity theft is the top offense. The number one target are students, followed by senior citizens. Attendees were advised not to do banking online; nor open any emails from an unknown source; and make sure to have security protection for any computer. Nevertheless, thieves can still hack into a computer, so the less personal information on the hard drive, the better.

Thieves can fill out a change of address card, and reroute mail. Thus if your mail goes missing, check it out. “Dumpster diving” at a place of business is commonplace now, which makes it imperative that all documents be shredded. If a business becomes aware that a consumer’s information has been stolen, there is a responsibility to report it to the customer involved. However, if the company does not have the contents of their computer backed up, resurrecting information may not be possible.

There is a device out there that can be purchased called a “key logger”, that can read every stroke made on a computer. It is meant to be used as a parental control device for software, but in the hands of the wrong person, can be used to gain access to personal information. Do not allow anyone, including friends or relatives, to use your laptop or home computer. Beware of wireless connections, as it allows for computer “sniffing” – another name for wireless “phishing” (fishing for personal information on a computer by pretending to be a legitimate financial institution).

Make sure to put your name on the DO NOT CALL list (www.donotcall.gov; 1-888-290-4236), but beware of ensuing telephone surveys. If you give to some charities, they may sell your name to other entities. There are actually websites that sell fake ID’s for any state in the nation. Credit card fraud is committed with a device called a “skimmer”. A dishonest waitress at a restaurant, who takes your credit card away to make payment, can “skim” all your credit card information (name, account number, how much money is available, other account information) in one quick swipe. It is better if you pay cash.

Bank debit cards are not as safe as credit cards. A debit card is not insured, and allows a con artist to reach directly into your account if they can bypass your PIN #, whereas a credit card is covered by federal insurance except for the first $50. By the time Detective Bezuglov was finished speaking about cyber crime, one senior said she was thinking about getting rid of her computer altogether. Clearly for most of us, this solution is not practical, since we use our computers as such an integral part of our lives. Nevertheless, don’t neglect computer security as a regular practice.

Peggy Osborne from the CA Attorney General’s Office warned of Medicare/MediCal fraud. As she pointed out so acutely, when a senior is conned out of their money, it often results in a downward cycle of shame, despair and depression, accompanied by premature death. She warned not to answer the door if the person on the other side is unknown. A clever salesman can talk anyone into some very detrimental schemes.

I had a case not long ago, involving a Russian speaking salesman. This sly swindler sweet-talked a Spanish speaking senior, with Parkinson’s Disease, into enrolling in a completely unsuitable Medicare health insurance plan. My client was promised the moon, that there would be no cost to him (it was on the paperwork), which was an outright falsehood. The insurance company in question has since been reported to the appropriate agency, and the original insurance policy was reinstated. But my client is still on the hook for any medical costs attributable to the period of time he was not covered (one month), which he cannot afford. To have Parkinson’s Disease is expensive.

Caregivers have to be watched diligently. They can steal personal information, medications, jewelry, and/or money. Many seniors will not report the crime because they are in absolute dread of being placed in a nursing home. A Durable Power of Attorney can be a license to steal if it is not carefully crafted and well thought out. Limit the powers given to the absolute minimum as a general rule.

Operation Guardian has been instituted by the Attorney General’s Office in CA, to make spot checks in nursing homes. The current law only requires one inspection every five years. If the Attorney General’s Office receives a complaint, they can send in an agent unannounced at any time of day or night, accompanied by a doctor, nurse and forensic accountant. Charts can be pulled, anything can be inspected. Various skilled nursing facilities have been charged with fraud, neglect, failure to report, and elder abuse. 65% of patients in nursing homes have no one visiting them. If your loved one is in a skilled nursing facility, make spot checks and get to know the staff. Be vigilant.

Last but not least, Ike Iketani from the CA Highway Patrol talked about older driver safety. He reminded the audience that a Request for Reexamination has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with driving ability. Law enforcement looks for a pattern of behavior of cognitive impairment. As of July, using a cell phone in your hands while driving will be illegal. CHP officers are given empathy training, in which actual medical conditions of the elderly, such as neck rotation problems, are simulated. Young officers tend not to cite older drivers because the offender reminds them too much of their own aged mother or father.

New traffic devices are cutting down on car accidents. Some recent pedestrian buttons can be held down longer if there is a need for more time to cross because of a physical impairment. Roundabouts are intended to be “traffic calming” measures, but the blind and disabled don’t always hear or can’t get out of the way of oncoming traffic. Crosswalks are considered a right of way for pedestrians, even if they are not painted as such. The CHP now has airplanes that can target multiple vehicles for speeding. You can feel for the number 5 on your cell phone in the dark in an emergency, because it has a raised bump, and then figure out where the other numbers are from there.

If you should be unfortunate enough to have a flat tire on the freeway, pull over as far to the side of the road as is practicable. Try and make it to the next exit, rather than remain as a sitting duck for another car to hit. It is permissible to drive on the shoulder of the road with a flat tire. If you have a car service like AAA, have them change the flat tire, rather than attempt to do it yourself. It is imperative to always carry a cell phone with you. Even if you don’t have one, you can purchase a very basic type with minutes on it at your local grocery store. It is encouraged to report stolen cars, by calling 1-800 TELL CHP.

Make sure to monitor driving skills regularly, by signing up at the Davis Senior Center, for Car Fit and AAA Roadwise Review. AARP also has some sort of driving course for the elderly. Those with limited driving abilities can restrict their driving to daytime only, avoid freeways or left turns (three right turns make one left turn!), travel to only well known destinations close by, take public transit whenever practical (more on this in a future article). Any sort of medical condition that could cause blackouts (e.g. uncontrolled or severe diabetes) require driving be given up altogether, for public safety.

A thank you to Quiznos, Dos Coyotes, Noah’s Bagel’s, all on Cowell Blvd, for donating food for guests at this event.

LESSON TO BE LEARNED: Be safe, not sorry. Try and head off trouble before it happens. Never hesitate to report criminal activity to law enforcement. Deterrence is vital.

Rebuilding Together – If any senior is in need of safety devices (e.g. toilet risers, grab bars, railings, wheel chair ramps), and lives in their own home in Yolo County, the equipment and installation can be obtained: free of charge to low income folks; a reasonable fee for service program is also available. Please refer Davis seniors to this program if you know of anyone applicable. There is still $10,000 available in community development block grant funding to serve our city’s elderly population in this regard.

Anna Zoubak – The lovely Russian lady that received redevelopment funding, to rebuild a modular home on her condemned property, has died. Her disabled adult son will now benefit from the beneficence of the federal dollars generously distributed by the City of West Sacramento.

FRAUD ALERT – You are not going to believe this one! Here is how it works: A bogus clinic with access to real medical information starts fraudulently billing insurance companies/Medicare/Medicaid for treatment never delivered. Patients are not swindled out of money, but medical records have fraudulent treatments difficult to remove/correct because of federal HIPPA regulations. The modified records are then used if a life threatening emergency occurs, and can result in the patient being given the wrong medication. Several deaths have been the result.

FRAUD ALERT – A company is asking seniors to provide extensive personal information, including SSN, Medicare #, financial details, medical information. The customer completes an IRREVOCABLE Durable Power of Attorney that gives the company the right to lifelong access to medical records. A form is signed authorizing and directing the heirs to provide a copy of the death certificate. In exchange for completing the “survey” and participating in the program, the senior is given $1,000 immediately and receives $250/yr for the rest of his/her life.

The packet is extensive and confusing, and improper use/disclosure of the information will put seniors at risk for financial exploitation and identity theft. This appears to be a STOLI operation (Strange Oriented Life Insurance), which may be technically legal. It appears to be a company that purchases information, then may insure the individual or sell the information to a speculator, who could be out of the country (see www.KCRA.com and search for STOLI).

Elaine Roberts Musser is an attorney who concentrates her efforts on elder law and aging issues, especially in regard to consumer affairs. If you have a particular question or topic you would like to see addressed in this column, please feel free to remark in the commentary section below.

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About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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56 thoughts on “Guest Commentary: Where’s the Fire?”

  1. Anonymous

    Many cities hire enough paramedics so that one is assigned to every truck all of the time. In those communities significant medical attention is provided about two minutes earlier than is the case in Davis. There is a cost impact, but the practice does save lives. Since most calls are medical related it is obvious that Davis needs to upgrade.

  2. Anonymous

    Many cities hire enough paramedics so that one is assigned to every truck all of the time. In those communities significant medical attention is provided about two minutes earlier than is the case in Davis. There is a cost impact, but the practice does save lives. Since most calls are medical related it is obvious that Davis needs to upgrade.

  3. Anonymous

    Many cities hire enough paramedics so that one is assigned to every truck all of the time. In those communities significant medical attention is provided about two minutes earlier than is the case in Davis. There is a cost impact, but the practice does save lives. Since most calls are medical related it is obvious that Davis needs to upgrade.

  4. Anonymous

    Many cities hire enough paramedics so that one is assigned to every truck all of the time. In those communities significant medical attention is provided about two minutes earlier than is the case in Davis. There is a cost impact, but the practice does save lives. Since most calls are medical related it is obvious that Davis needs to upgrade.

  5. Rich Rifkin

    “As it was explained to those of us seated in the audience at the Senior Academy, ambulance service in Davis is contracted out to a private company (AMR) in one location. On the other hand, the city has three fire departments strategically located throughout the community.”

    This is incorrect. We have two AMR ambulances in Davis, 24 hours a day, not one. There are three in West Sac and three in Woodland. Whenever the Davis-based ambulances are busy, the Woodland or West Sac ambulances are repositioned, so that one of them could respond if necessary.

    The fire department EMTs normally don’t serve as primary responders to these calls. Rather, they support the ambulance crews, which contain a more highly trained paramedic. (I was told by two different AMR personnel that “most of the time the fire guys don’t do anything but get in the way.”)

    The body responsible for setting our ambulance policy in Davis is Yolo County, not the City of Davis. And the county is part of a larger Joint Powers Authority which has the deal with AMR.

    Perhaps the most salient question with our fire department’s policy is this: why respond to every 9-1-1 medical call, even those that the ambulance service can easily handle on its own? The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis. Most fire departments serve as backups to ambulance companies when necessary. But our fire department lacks discretion. And, anecdotally at least, one result has been a number of people — dozens of whom contacted me — who won’t call 9-1-1 in a medical emergency, because they don’t want to disrupt their entire neighborhood every time they have an angina attack.

  6. Rich Rifkin

    “As it was explained to those of us seated in the audience at the Senior Academy, ambulance service in Davis is contracted out to a private company (AMR) in one location. On the other hand, the city has three fire departments strategically located throughout the community.”

    This is incorrect. We have two AMR ambulances in Davis, 24 hours a day, not one. There are three in West Sac and three in Woodland. Whenever the Davis-based ambulances are busy, the Woodland or West Sac ambulances are repositioned, so that one of them could respond if necessary.

    The fire department EMTs normally don’t serve as primary responders to these calls. Rather, they support the ambulance crews, which contain a more highly trained paramedic. (I was told by two different AMR personnel that “most of the time the fire guys don’t do anything but get in the way.”)

    The body responsible for setting our ambulance policy in Davis is Yolo County, not the City of Davis. And the county is part of a larger Joint Powers Authority which has the deal with AMR.

    Perhaps the most salient question with our fire department’s policy is this: why respond to every 9-1-1 medical call, even those that the ambulance service can easily handle on its own? The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis. Most fire departments serve as backups to ambulance companies when necessary. But our fire department lacks discretion. And, anecdotally at least, one result has been a number of people — dozens of whom contacted me — who won’t call 9-1-1 in a medical emergency, because they don’t want to disrupt their entire neighborhood every time they have an angina attack.

  7. Rich Rifkin

    “As it was explained to those of us seated in the audience at the Senior Academy, ambulance service in Davis is contracted out to a private company (AMR) in one location. On the other hand, the city has three fire departments strategically located throughout the community.”

    This is incorrect. We have two AMR ambulances in Davis, 24 hours a day, not one. There are three in West Sac and three in Woodland. Whenever the Davis-based ambulances are busy, the Woodland or West Sac ambulances are repositioned, so that one of them could respond if necessary.

    The fire department EMTs normally don’t serve as primary responders to these calls. Rather, they support the ambulance crews, which contain a more highly trained paramedic. (I was told by two different AMR personnel that “most of the time the fire guys don’t do anything but get in the way.”)

    The body responsible for setting our ambulance policy in Davis is Yolo County, not the City of Davis. And the county is part of a larger Joint Powers Authority which has the deal with AMR.

    Perhaps the most salient question with our fire department’s policy is this: why respond to every 9-1-1 medical call, even those that the ambulance service can easily handle on its own? The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis. Most fire departments serve as backups to ambulance companies when necessary. But our fire department lacks discretion. And, anecdotally at least, one result has been a number of people — dozens of whom contacted me — who won’t call 9-1-1 in a medical emergency, because they don’t want to disrupt their entire neighborhood every time they have an angina attack.

  8. Rich Rifkin

    “As it was explained to those of us seated in the audience at the Senior Academy, ambulance service in Davis is contracted out to a private company (AMR) in one location. On the other hand, the city has three fire departments strategically located throughout the community.”

    This is incorrect. We have two AMR ambulances in Davis, 24 hours a day, not one. There are three in West Sac and three in Woodland. Whenever the Davis-based ambulances are busy, the Woodland or West Sac ambulances are repositioned, so that one of them could respond if necessary.

    The fire department EMTs normally don’t serve as primary responders to these calls. Rather, they support the ambulance crews, which contain a more highly trained paramedic. (I was told by two different AMR personnel that “most of the time the fire guys don’t do anything but get in the way.”)

    The body responsible for setting our ambulance policy in Davis is Yolo County, not the City of Davis. And the county is part of a larger Joint Powers Authority which has the deal with AMR.

    Perhaps the most salient question with our fire department’s policy is this: why respond to every 9-1-1 medical call, even those that the ambulance service can easily handle on its own? The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis. Most fire departments serve as backups to ambulance companies when necessary. But our fire department lacks discretion. And, anecdotally at least, one result has been a number of people — dozens of whom contacted me — who won’t call 9-1-1 in a medical emergency, because they don’t want to disrupt their entire neighborhood every time they have an angina attack.

  9. Anonymous

    “The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis.”

    That has been the universal modus operandi where I have lived – it is called redundancy. People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire. Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).

    AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments. Certainly there are good people at AMR, but the best ones look for better opportunities and leave.

  10. Anonymous

    “The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis.”

    That has been the universal modus operandi where I have lived – it is called redundancy. People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire. Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).

    AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments. Certainly there are good people at AMR, but the best ones look for better opportunities and leave.

  11. Anonymous

    “The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis.”

    That has been the universal modus operandi where I have lived – it is called redundancy. People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire. Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).

    AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments. Certainly there are good people at AMR, but the best ones look for better opportunities and leave.

  12. Anonymous

    “The idea that every medical call needs an entire fire company to respond to it is not universal outside of Davis.”

    That has been the universal modus operandi where I have lived – it is called redundancy. People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire. Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).

    AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments. Certainly there are good people at AMR, but the best ones look for better opportunities and leave.

  13. Rich Rifkin

    “AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments.”

    This is incorrect, at least as far as medical training goes. Paramedics are much more highly trained than EMTs. The ambulance employs an EMT and a paramedic. By contrast, the firefighters are all trained to be just EMTs.

    “People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire.”

    Even anecdotally, I don’t believe this has ever occurred.

    “Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).”

    This is possible in theory. However, I have never heard of it ever occuring in Davis. And if an ambulance did get in an accident, a second Davis ambulance could be dispatched.

    Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.

  14. Rich Rifkin

    “AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments.”

    This is incorrect, at least as far as medical training goes. Paramedics are much more highly trained than EMTs. The ambulance employs an EMT and a paramedic. By contrast, the firefighters are all trained to be just EMTs.

    “People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire.”

    Even anecdotally, I don’t believe this has ever occurred.

    “Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).”

    This is possible in theory. However, I have never heard of it ever occuring in Davis. And if an ambulance did get in an accident, a second Davis ambulance could be dispatched.

    Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.

  15. Rich Rifkin

    “AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments.”

    This is incorrect, at least as far as medical training goes. Paramedics are much more highly trained than EMTs. The ambulance employs an EMT and a paramedic. By contrast, the firefighters are all trained to be just EMTs.

    “People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire.”

    Even anecdotally, I don’t believe this has ever occurred.

    “Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).”

    This is possible in theory. However, I have never heard of it ever occuring in Davis. And if an ambulance did get in an accident, a second Davis ambulance could be dispatched.

    Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.

  16. Rich Rifkin

    “AMR is the training ground for paramedics going to fire departments.”

    This is incorrect, at least as far as medical training goes. Paramedics are much more highly trained than EMTs. The ambulance employs an EMT and a paramedic. By contrast, the firefighters are all trained to be just EMTs.

    “People call in a medical problem and sometimes fail to mention other things like the house is on fire.”

    Even anecdotally, I don’t believe this has ever occurred.

    “Also what happens if the ambulance fails to show up (accident or equipment problem).”

    This is possible in theory. However, I have never heard of it ever occuring in Davis. And if an ambulance did get in an accident, a second Davis ambulance could be dispatched.

    Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.

  17. Anonymous

    You kind of missed the point. Almost all of the communities west of Davis have at least one Paramedic on each truck – the rest of the people are EMT’s.

    “I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1” I think that is a false statement. I have never seen that happen and usually the fire dept is there first. Furthermore I do not understand why you would be concerned about that – the fire dept is already funded so it really does not cost anything for them to show up.

    I bet it would be cost effective for Davis to have its own ambulance – there would be one at UCD and one closer to downtown. Somebody should run the numbers.

  18. Anonymous

    You kind of missed the point. Almost all of the communities west of Davis have at least one Paramedic on each truck – the rest of the people are EMT’s.

    “I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1” I think that is a false statement. I have never seen that happen and usually the fire dept is there first. Furthermore I do not understand why you would be concerned about that – the fire dept is already funded so it really does not cost anything for them to show up.

    I bet it would be cost effective for Davis to have its own ambulance – there would be one at UCD and one closer to downtown. Somebody should run the numbers.

  19. Anonymous

    You kind of missed the point. Almost all of the communities west of Davis have at least one Paramedic on each truck – the rest of the people are EMT’s.

    “I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1” I think that is a false statement. I have never seen that happen and usually the fire dept is there first. Furthermore I do not understand why you would be concerned about that – the fire dept is already funded so it really does not cost anything for them to show up.

    I bet it would be cost effective for Davis to have its own ambulance – there would be one at UCD and one closer to downtown. Somebody should run the numbers.

  20. Anonymous

    You kind of missed the point. Almost all of the communities west of Davis have at least one Paramedic on each truck – the rest of the people are EMT’s.

    “I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1” I think that is a false statement. I have never seen that happen and usually the fire dept is there first. Furthermore I do not understand why you would be concerned about that – the fire dept is already funded so it really does not cost anything for them to show up.

    I bet it would be cost effective for Davis to have its own ambulance – there would be one at UCD and one closer to downtown. Somebody should run the numbers.

  21. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  22. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  23. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  24. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  25. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  26. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  27. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  28. Sue Greenwald

    Clarification: I have never been opposed to early retirement for firefighters.

    In fact, I have always been concerned that the strenuous exertions of older firefighters could put themselves and the public at risk.

    What I did vote against was early retirement for management and professional desk workers.

    In an era when social security is moving its retirement age up, to avoid insolvency, the council majority voted to move the age for full retirement for management and professional desk workers down to 55. This concerns me.

  29. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.”

    As it was explained to us: 1) the entire fire house, both personnel and equipment, “move up and cover” the next call, to ensure equipment and personnel travel as one unit rather than having to return to the fire house to pick up what was left behind; 2) firemen are paid whether they sit at the fire house or are out in the field.

  30. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.”

    As it was explained to us: 1) the entire fire house, both personnel and equipment, “move up and cover” the next call, to ensure equipment and personnel travel as one unit rather than having to return to the fire house to pick up what was left behind; 2) firemen are paid whether they sit at the fire house or are out in the field.

  31. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.”

    As it was explained to us: 1) the entire fire house, both personnel and equipment, “move up and cover” the next call, to ensure equipment and personnel travel as one unit rather than having to return to the fire house to pick up what was left behind; 2) firemen are paid whether they sit at the fire house or are out in the field.

  32. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “Again, I am not opposed to the fire department serving as a support service to the ambulance crews when it is necessary, or serving as the primary responder — such as with a car accident which might need the special equipment of the fire department — when that is called for. I question why our fire department (unlike most fire departments in California) responds to every single medical call to 9-1-1 in which an ambulance is requested.”

    As it was explained to us: 1) the entire fire house, both personnel and equipment, “move up and cover” the next call, to ensure equipment and personnel travel as one unit rather than having to return to the fire house to pick up what was left behind; 2) firemen are paid whether they sit at the fire house or are out in the field.

  33. Anonymous

    For once I agree with Rifkin. There is an excessive response by the DFD to a lot of minor incidents. They often tie up traffic in the downtown area and one gets to see a number of fire personnel standing around doing nothing.
    Perhaps the motive behind this type of response is to pad call figures so that more money can be justified for the fire dept.?

  34. Anonymous

    For once I agree with Rifkin. There is an excessive response by the DFD to a lot of minor incidents. They often tie up traffic in the downtown area and one gets to see a number of fire personnel standing around doing nothing.
    Perhaps the motive behind this type of response is to pad call figures so that more money can be justified for the fire dept.?

  35. Anonymous

    For once I agree with Rifkin. There is an excessive response by the DFD to a lot of minor incidents. They often tie up traffic in the downtown area and one gets to see a number of fire personnel standing around doing nothing.
    Perhaps the motive behind this type of response is to pad call figures so that more money can be justified for the fire dept.?

  36. Anonymous

    For once I agree with Rifkin. There is an excessive response by the DFD to a lot of minor incidents. They often tie up traffic in the downtown area and one gets to see a number of fire personnel standing around doing nothing.
    Perhaps the motive behind this type of response is to pad call figures so that more money can be justified for the fire dept.?

  37. Rich Rifkin

    Of course, the last comment by Anonymous 9:39 is true.

    The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.

  38. Rich Rifkin

    Of course, the last comment by Anonymous 9:39 is true.

    The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.

  39. Rich Rifkin

    Of course, the last comment by Anonymous 9:39 is true.

    The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.

  40. Rich Rifkin

    Of course, the last comment by Anonymous 9:39 is true.

    The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.

  41. Anonymous

    Quite interesting, I too was wondering about the wasted resources and noise caused by at least two huge firetrucks responding to what — judging by their frequency — cannot always have been major incidents.

    It’s my understanding that in Germany, where I’m from, purely medical emergencies are handled by paramedics (possibly supported by specialized doctors), and firefighters are only called sent out if necessary.

    By the way, I believe San Jose has a similar policy of having firefighters respond to purely medical incidents. I was on an Amtrak bus where a passenger had a epileptic seizure, and the firefighters came. But only with one truck.

  42. Anonymous

    Quite interesting, I too was wondering about the wasted resources and noise caused by at least two huge firetrucks responding to what — judging by their frequency — cannot always have been major incidents.

    It’s my understanding that in Germany, where I’m from, purely medical emergencies are handled by paramedics (possibly supported by specialized doctors), and firefighters are only called sent out if necessary.

    By the way, I believe San Jose has a similar policy of having firefighters respond to purely medical incidents. I was on an Amtrak bus where a passenger had a epileptic seizure, and the firefighters came. But only with one truck.

  43. Anonymous

    Quite interesting, I too was wondering about the wasted resources and noise caused by at least two huge firetrucks responding to what — judging by their frequency — cannot always have been major incidents.

    It’s my understanding that in Germany, where I’m from, purely medical emergencies are handled by paramedics (possibly supported by specialized doctors), and firefighters are only called sent out if necessary.

    By the way, I believe San Jose has a similar policy of having firefighters respond to purely medical incidents. I was on an Amtrak bus where a passenger had a epileptic seizure, and the firefighters came. But only with one truck.

  44. Anonymous

    Quite interesting, I too was wondering about the wasted resources and noise caused by at least two huge firetrucks responding to what — judging by their frequency — cannot always have been major incidents.

    It’s my understanding that in Germany, where I’m from, purely medical emergencies are handled by paramedics (possibly supported by specialized doctors), and firefighters are only called sent out if necessary.

    By the way, I believe San Jose has a similar policy of having firefighters respond to purely medical incidents. I was on an Amtrak bus where a passenger had a epileptic seizure, and the firefighters came. But only with one truck.

  45. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.”

    First of all, I don’t quite understand the hostility to the fire department, in assuming the “move up and cover” method is an effort to “create… the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs”. Firemen get paid whether they sit at the fire house or are on call. I doubt very much if citizens are paying that much attention to every call they go out on, to count how many fire personnel show up who look as if they are doing nothing.

    Secondly, if you feel they make way too much money, what is your proposal on that issue? How should the city address having made contracts with city personnel over the years that are far too lucrative in your opinion? Should the city not honor the contracts? Should the city ask the fire personnel to take a pay cut? What about police, parks & rec, public works? I am not clear on how you would address this issue.

    Furthermore, I remember being a bystander at a car accident here in town. Two cars collided at an intersection. The fire crew had its hands full controlling traffic and stabilizing patients, as I guarded one passenger’s young daughter, who was left unattended. I wanted to make sure she did not accidently wander into traffic. Even with police there, it was not enough. At an accident scene, there are so many considerations: medically stabilizing injured parties (there were two) and getting them off to the hospital, directing traffic, obtaining information from bystanders, and road cleanup.

    I myself have had numerous medical emergencies. When I am in dire need, I want medical help ASAP. One or two minutes for a heart attack victim can mean the difference between life and death. If immediate fire response means someone EMT trained arrives on the scene one or two minutes prior to the ambulance, it could make the difference between whether that person lives or dies.

    If it appears fire personnel are standing around and doing nothing at a simple medical emergency, it also means they are ready to immediately go to another scene without returning to the fire house for needed manpower or equipment.

    If your only complaint is that you ascribe to the fire department the motive of making themselves look important to justify their pay…then what is your solution? Do away with the “move up and cover” protocol, and take the chance there will be a lag time in response, so the fire department doesn’t get away with “looking important”? Tell that to the recent 80 year old patient that received stabilization procedures from EMT trained firefighters prior to the ambulance arriving that was reported in the Davis Enterprise.

    Why don’t you ask for a ride along from Fire Chief Rose Conroy for about a week, so you can see how the operation really works on a day-to-day basis? It might give you a better feel for why the “move up and cover” protocol is necessary. I have been to several accidents scenes in town, seen way too many on the freeway, and have had use of ambulance service too many times to count. I just cannot agree with your assessment. Remember, last year alone there were 800 calls involving the “move up and cover” protocol.

    If you do go on a ride along, and still feel the same way, then come back and tell us. I, for one, would love to hear what you have to say then. And I am all ears on how you would propose to decrease the current salaries of city employees, who have already existing contracts. I do think the city does need to think long and hard before it decides how much to pay city employees in the future, in light of our city’s budget deficit. But how you pare down existing contracts is not clear to me, assuming there was collective agreement that city salaries should be decreased – across the board. I hardly think it would be fair to decrease only the salaries of the fire department, don’t you?

  46. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.”

    First of all, I don’t quite understand the hostility to the fire department, in assuming the “move up and cover” method is an effort to “create… the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs”. Firemen get paid whether they sit at the fire house or are on call. I doubt very much if citizens are paying that much attention to every call they go out on, to count how many fire personnel show up who look as if they are doing nothing.

    Secondly, if you feel they make way too much money, what is your proposal on that issue? How should the city address having made contracts with city personnel over the years that are far too lucrative in your opinion? Should the city not honor the contracts? Should the city ask the fire personnel to take a pay cut? What about police, parks & rec, public works? I am not clear on how you would address this issue.

    Furthermore, I remember being a bystander at a car accident here in town. Two cars collided at an intersection. The fire crew had its hands full controlling traffic and stabilizing patients, as I guarded one passenger’s young daughter, who was left unattended. I wanted to make sure she did not accidently wander into traffic. Even with police there, it was not enough. At an accident scene, there are so many considerations: medically stabilizing injured parties (there were two) and getting them off to the hospital, directing traffic, obtaining information from bystanders, and road cleanup.

    I myself have had numerous medical emergencies. When I am in dire need, I want medical help ASAP. One or two minutes for a heart attack victim can mean the difference between life and death. If immediate fire response means someone EMT trained arrives on the scene one or two minutes prior to the ambulance, it could make the difference between whether that person lives or dies.

    If it appears fire personnel are standing around and doing nothing at a simple medical emergency, it also means they are ready to immediately go to another scene without returning to the fire house for needed manpower or equipment.

    If your only complaint is that you ascribe to the fire department the motive of making themselves look important to justify their pay…then what is your solution? Do away with the “move up and cover” protocol, and take the chance there will be a lag time in response, so the fire department doesn’t get away with “looking important”? Tell that to the recent 80 year old patient that received stabilization procedures from EMT trained firefighters prior to the ambulance arriving that was reported in the Davis Enterprise.

    Why don’t you ask for a ride along from Fire Chief Rose Conroy for about a week, so you can see how the operation really works on a day-to-day basis? It might give you a better feel for why the “move up and cover” protocol is necessary. I have been to several accidents scenes in town, seen way too many on the freeway, and have had use of ambulance service too many times to count. I just cannot agree with your assessment. Remember, last year alone there were 800 calls involving the “move up and cover” protocol.

    If you do go on a ride along, and still feel the same way, then come back and tell us. I, for one, would love to hear what you have to say then. And I am all ears on how you would propose to decrease the current salaries of city employees, who have already existing contracts. I do think the city does need to think long and hard before it decides how much to pay city employees in the future, in light of our city’s budget deficit. But how you pare down existing contracts is not clear to me, assuming there was collective agreement that city salaries should be decreased – across the board. I hardly think it would be fair to decrease only the salaries of the fire department, don’t you?

  47. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.”

    First of all, I don’t quite understand the hostility to the fire department, in assuming the “move up and cover” method is an effort to “create… the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs”. Firemen get paid whether they sit at the fire house or are on call. I doubt very much if citizens are paying that much attention to every call they go out on, to count how many fire personnel show up who look as if they are doing nothing.

    Secondly, if you feel they make way too much money, what is your proposal on that issue? How should the city address having made contracts with city personnel over the years that are far too lucrative in your opinion? Should the city not honor the contracts? Should the city ask the fire personnel to take a pay cut? What about police, parks & rec, public works? I am not clear on how you would address this issue.

    Furthermore, I remember being a bystander at a car accident here in town. Two cars collided at an intersection. The fire crew had its hands full controlling traffic and stabilizing patients, as I guarded one passenger’s young daughter, who was left unattended. I wanted to make sure she did not accidently wander into traffic. Even with police there, it was not enough. At an accident scene, there are so many considerations: medically stabilizing injured parties (there were two) and getting them off to the hospital, directing traffic, obtaining information from bystanders, and road cleanup.

    I myself have had numerous medical emergencies. When I am in dire need, I want medical help ASAP. One or two minutes for a heart attack victim can mean the difference between life and death. If immediate fire response means someone EMT trained arrives on the scene one or two minutes prior to the ambulance, it could make the difference between whether that person lives or dies.

    If it appears fire personnel are standing around and doing nothing at a simple medical emergency, it also means they are ready to immediately go to another scene without returning to the fire house for needed manpower or equipment.

    If your only complaint is that you ascribe to the fire department the motive of making themselves look important to justify their pay…then what is your solution? Do away with the “move up and cover” protocol, and take the chance there will be a lag time in response, so the fire department doesn’t get away with “looking important”? Tell that to the recent 80 year old patient that received stabilization procedures from EMT trained firefighters prior to the ambulance arriving that was reported in the Davis Enterprise.

    Why don’t you ask for a ride along from Fire Chief Rose Conroy for about a week, so you can see how the operation really works on a day-to-day basis? It might give you a better feel for why the “move up and cover” protocol is necessary. I have been to several accidents scenes in town, seen way too many on the freeway, and have had use of ambulance service too many times to count. I just cannot agree with your assessment. Remember, last year alone there were 800 calls involving the “move up and cover” protocol.

    If you do go on a ride along, and still feel the same way, then come back and tell us. I, for one, would love to hear what you have to say then. And I am all ears on how you would propose to decrease the current salaries of city employees, who have already existing contracts. I do think the city does need to think long and hard before it decides how much to pay city employees in the future, in light of our city’s budget deficit. But how you pare down existing contracts is not clear to me, assuming there was collective agreement that city salaries should be decreased – across the board. I hardly think it would be fair to decrease only the salaries of the fire department, don’t you?

  48. Elaine Roberts Musser

    “The fire personnel make way too much money and they are trying to justify it by creating the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs.”

    First of all, I don’t quite understand the hostility to the fire department, in assuming the “move up and cover” method is an effort to “create… the false impression that they are busy all day serving our needs”. Firemen get paid whether they sit at the fire house or are on call. I doubt very much if citizens are paying that much attention to every call they go out on, to count how many fire personnel show up who look as if they are doing nothing.

    Secondly, if you feel they make way too much money, what is your proposal on that issue? How should the city address having made contracts with city personnel over the years that are far too lucrative in your opinion? Should the city not honor the contracts? Should the city ask the fire personnel to take a pay cut? What about police, parks & rec, public works? I am not clear on how you would address this issue.

    Furthermore, I remember being a bystander at a car accident here in town. Two cars collided at an intersection. The fire crew had its hands full controlling traffic and stabilizing patients, as I guarded one passenger’s young daughter, who was left unattended. I wanted to make sure she did not accidently wander into traffic. Even with police there, it was not enough. At an accident scene, there are so many considerations: medically stabilizing injured parties (there were two) and getting them off to the hospital, directing traffic, obtaining information from bystanders, and road cleanup.

    I myself have had numerous medical emergencies. When I am in dire need, I want medical help ASAP. One or two minutes for a heart attack victim can mean the difference between life and death. If immediate fire response means someone EMT trained arrives on the scene one or two minutes prior to the ambulance, it could make the difference between whether that person lives or dies.

    If it appears fire personnel are standing around and doing nothing at a simple medical emergency, it also means they are ready to immediately go to another scene without returning to the fire house for needed manpower or equipment.

    If your only complaint is that you ascribe to the fire department the motive of making themselves look important to justify their pay…then what is your solution? Do away with the “move up and cover” protocol, and take the chance there will be a lag time in response, so the fire department doesn’t get away with “looking important”? Tell that to the recent 80 year old patient that received stabilization procedures from EMT trained firefighters prior to the ambulance arriving that was reported in the Davis Enterprise.

    Why don’t you ask for a ride along from Fire Chief Rose Conroy for about a week, so you can see how the operation really works on a day-to-day basis? It might give you a better feel for why the “move up and cover” protocol is necessary. I have been to several accidents scenes in town, seen way too many on the freeway, and have had use of ambulance service too many times to count. I just cannot agree with your assessment. Remember, last year alone there were 800 calls involving the “move up and cover” protocol.

    If you do go on a ride along, and still feel the same way, then come back and tell us. I, for one, would love to hear what you have to say then. And I am all ears on how you would propose to decrease the current salaries of city employees, who have already existing contracts. I do think the city does need to think long and hard before it decides how much to pay city employees in the future, in light of our city’s budget deficit. But how you pare down existing contracts is not clear to me, assuming there was collective agreement that city salaries should be decreased – across the board. I hardly think it would be fair to decrease only the salaries of the fire department, don’t you?

  49. Anonymous

    Elaine Roberts Musser,
    The way people think is based on their perceptions. If you don’t think people are’nt paying attention to the frequent calls the DFD responds to then I suggest you go downtown and solicit the local business owners on this topic.
    I work in the downtown area and have heard business owners and downtown shoppers question this practice on a very frequent basis.
    If you don’t think people are paying attention you are sadly mistaken. A suggestion to you is not to go on a ride along but to go downtown and ask the people what their perceptions are. You might be surprised.

  50. Anonymous

    Elaine Roberts Musser,
    The way people think is based on their perceptions. If you don’t think people are’nt paying attention to the frequent calls the DFD responds to then I suggest you go downtown and solicit the local business owners on this topic.
    I work in the downtown area and have heard business owners and downtown shoppers question this practice on a very frequent basis.
    If you don’t think people are paying attention you are sadly mistaken. A suggestion to you is not to go on a ride along but to go downtown and ask the people what their perceptions are. You might be surprised.

  51. Anonymous

    Elaine Roberts Musser,
    The way people think is based on their perceptions. If you don’t think people are’nt paying attention to the frequent calls the DFD responds to then I suggest you go downtown and solicit the local business owners on this topic.
    I work in the downtown area and have heard business owners and downtown shoppers question this practice on a very frequent basis.
    If you don’t think people are paying attention you are sadly mistaken. A suggestion to you is not to go on a ride along but to go downtown and ask the people what their perceptions are. You might be surprised.

  52. Anonymous

    Elaine Roberts Musser,
    The way people think is based on their perceptions. If you don’t think people are’nt paying attention to the frequent calls the DFD responds to then I suggest you go downtown and solicit the local business owners on this topic.
    I work in the downtown area and have heard business owners and downtown shoppers question this practice on a very frequent basis.
    If you don’t think people are paying attention you are sadly mistaken. A suggestion to you is not to go on a ride along but to go downtown and ask the people what their perceptions are. You might be surprised.

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