A group called the Vanguardians, a public watch dog group headquartered in the city of Glendale, cover many of the same issues and concerns as the People’s Vanguard of Davis. They report of an incident that occurred at the end of August.
The Glendale police apparently have been more forthcoming on the details of this incident than the fire department. A 911 call was placed at 2 am, someone yelled fire and hung up. They reconnected 41 seconds later. The Police are the first on the scene one minute, ten seconds after the call and the second officer arrives just a minute or so later.
However, the police are not able to do much because it is already too hot and smoky. The fire fighters are just a few blocks from the apartment unit fire–but they are asleep in bed and arrived too late on the scene to save a life.
The Vanguardians have put together a timeline. The call was received at 2:00:54 am and dispatched to a station at 2:01:34 that was less than 1/2 mile away. It took them until 2:06:26 to arrive on the scene. They did not locate the victim until fifteen minutes after the call.
The Vanguardians believe that the fact that the firefighters were sleeping at the time of the call contributed to the length of time it took for them to arrive on the scene.
The Vanguardians provocatively write:
“While Firefighters were being paid to sleep, the Glendale PD answered a call for help. Within 70 seconds they responded, confirmed the call and located the smoke filled apartment. The Fire Department arrived 5 minutes later even though they were less than ½ mile away. Even though the GPD pinpointed the area it took FFs 15 minutes to find the victim. Once again this points out another reason to have 12 hour shifts so our City workers can be bright eyed and bushy tailed without having to hop out of bed. No more being paid to sleep!”
While this scene certainly looks bad, especially since it apparently took firefighters five minutes to respond to an incident less than half a mile from their station. Those I have spoken to question whether a faster response would have saved a life. They question whether the victims were alive even at the point at which the police arrived.
There are difficult questions that must be asked with regards to the length of shifts and possible additional costs of having 12 hour shifts versus 24 hour shifts. The 24 hour shift was actually put into place as a cost control measure–helping to reduce overtime and cut overhead.
But it does appear that increasingly the idea of a 24-hour shift is being questioned–from both a safety point of view to the employees and now the public.
The Vanguardians cite research from OSHA Complaince Advisor:
“The common practice of working 24-hour shifts at U.S. fire and emergency organizations may be ripe for change.
That’s the viewpoint of Chief Robert Avsec, long-time member and instructor with the Chesterfield County, Virginia, Fire and EMS. Avsec writes on the website Firechief.com: “Changes may stem from decreased employee safety and decision-making capabilities while working 24-hour shifts.”
He also cites increased organizational liability and changes in worker attitudes about schedules.
Avsec refers to a National Sleep Foundation study that found sleep deprivation has an adverse effect on physical health and well-being, cognitive performance, and mood. Wonders Avsec, “How functional is an EMT or paramedic in an ambulance at 2 a.m. when he or she has been awake and on duty since 8 a.m.?” Also, according to Avsec, more than half of all EMS accidents involve ambulance operation.”
This is an old article from 1999, but it offers some advantages of a 10-hour day and a 14-hour night shift. The day shift would start at 8 am and end at 6 pm while the night shift would go from 6 pm to 8 am the following day.
The article cites improved safety as a key reason.
“Although it requires no additional staff, the 10/14 schedule offers a variety of advantages and opportunities.
Improved safety. Fatigue is a major factor in personnel safety. A physically and mentally challenging incident in the early hours of a 24-hour shift could subject fire personnel to injury or even death due to fatigue and decreased alertness at an incident that occurs later during the same shift. In addition, when personnel must handle multiple incidents during a single shift, the competence of the crews and the quality of service may be compromised. For example, is it in the best interest of someone needing sophisticated care to be the crew’s 20th patient during a shift?
The 10/14 shift can provide relief for fatigued and extremely busy individuals and crews through proper rest periods at the end of the 10- or 14-hour duty shift.”
Other cited advantages include reduced sick leave time and overtime pay, improved quality of life for personnel, increase productivity, improved project management, more opportunities for creative scheduling, among others.
On the other end of the spectrum some have actually argued for longer shifts such as a 48 hour shift. The argument is that once you go past 24 hours, it doesn’t really matter. And during slow times, that may be the case. However, on those rare occasions when firefighters have to respond to emergencies all day long whether they are fires or medical emergencies, there has to be a decreased ability to function properly.
It is unclear if the incident in Glendale was preventable by a change from the 24 hour shift. There would likely need to be an investigation. However, if the evidence shows that an arrival at one minute into the call could have saved the life, then the city is possibly going to face liability on it. There is no legitimate reason that it should have taken the department that long to arrive at a scene just half a mile away. Right there, that is a red flag.
These are all questions that need to be explored. I have heard compelling arguments from both cost and safety standpoints in both directions. One thing that is clear, we need to find out clearly if there is solid evidence to support the 24-hour shift both from the standpoint of costs and the standpoint of safety. Based on that evidence, we can make an informed decision that is not based either on tradition or on fears. Protecting the public is our top goal–making sure that the fire department provides top-notched and affordable service to this community is absolutely vital.
In my conversation with Bob Aaronson, who is investigating the Grand Jury report on the fire department, it was reassuring that despite whatever other problems exist, Davis is still getting great service from the fire department.
“If there are people in the public that having heard things are concerned about service to the public, the piece that I can share at this point, neither the grand jury report nor anything that I have seen in my work suggests that the public is being disserved. I think that the quality of fire service in the city of Davis is high.”
However, that top level of service does not mean we cannot question other aspects of the department. The remains, should firefighters be paid to sleep.
—Doug Paul Davis reporting
DPD, get the operations study of the Fire Dept that was commissioned by Jim Antonen. It was about … 2005?
DPD, get the operations study of the Fire Dept that was commissioned by Jim Antonen. It was about … 2005?
DPD, get the operations study of the Fire Dept that was commissioned by Jim Antonen. It was about … 2005?
DPD, get the operations study of the Fire Dept that was commissioned by Jim Antonen. It was about … 2005?
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) sets a six-minute standard for all career fire departments, meaning the fire fighters are full-time paid employees. The NFPA does realize, though, that perfection is impossible and recommends that the six-minute goal should be achieved 90 percent of the time.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) sets a six-minute standard for all career fire departments, meaning the fire fighters are full-time paid employees. The NFPA does realize, though, that perfection is impossible and recommends that the six-minute goal should be achieved 90 percent of the time.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) sets a six-minute standard for all career fire departments, meaning the fire fighters are full-time paid employees. The NFPA does realize, though, that perfection is impossible and recommends that the six-minute goal should be achieved 90 percent of the time.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) sets a six-minute standard for all career fire departments, meaning the fire fighters are full-time paid employees. The NFPA does realize, though, that perfection is impossible and recommends that the six-minute goal should be achieved 90 percent of the time.
Let’s not micromanage the Fire Department.
Let’s not micromanage the Fire Department.
Let’s not micromanage the Fire Department.
Let’s not micromanage the Fire Department.
I disagree with anonymous 8:35.
The problem for many elected officials is that it is almost impossible for them to be critical of the fire department. Any criticism of the hours, salaries, overtime, benefits etc. can be quickly turned into a criticism of the fire departments bravery, importance and the risks that they take. Politicians, even our mighty city councilmen, are susceptible to this kind of attack. You need people like DPD and the Vanguardians to encourage critical review from the outside.
This is particularly true in Davis where it appears that certain members of the current council are pets of the local fire union.
I disagree with anonymous 8:35.
The problem for many elected officials is that it is almost impossible for them to be critical of the fire department. Any criticism of the hours, salaries, overtime, benefits etc. can be quickly turned into a criticism of the fire departments bravery, importance and the risks that they take. Politicians, even our mighty city councilmen, are susceptible to this kind of attack. You need people like DPD and the Vanguardians to encourage critical review from the outside.
This is particularly true in Davis where it appears that certain members of the current council are pets of the local fire union.
I disagree with anonymous 8:35.
The problem for many elected officials is that it is almost impossible for them to be critical of the fire department. Any criticism of the hours, salaries, overtime, benefits etc. can be quickly turned into a criticism of the fire departments bravery, importance and the risks that they take. Politicians, even our mighty city councilmen, are susceptible to this kind of attack. You need people like DPD and the Vanguardians to encourage critical review from the outside.
This is particularly true in Davis where it appears that certain members of the current council are pets of the local fire union.
I disagree with anonymous 8:35.
The problem for many elected officials is that it is almost impossible for them to be critical of the fire department. Any criticism of the hours, salaries, overtime, benefits etc. can be quickly turned into a criticism of the fire departments bravery, importance and the risks that they take. Politicians, even our mighty city councilmen, are susceptible to this kind of attack. You need people like DPD and the Vanguardians to encourage critical review from the outside.
This is particularly true in Davis where it appears that certain members of the current council are pets of the local fire union.
Anonymous 8:35:
Questioning whether the department should change its shift arrangements, you consider that micromanaging? Seriously?
Anonymous 8:35:
Questioning whether the department should change its shift arrangements, you consider that micromanaging? Seriously?
Anonymous 8:35:
Questioning whether the department should change its shift arrangements, you consider that micromanaging? Seriously?
Anonymous 8:35:
Questioning whether the department should change its shift arrangements, you consider that micromanaging? Seriously?
I’m not sure about fire departments, but medical research on interns and residents is increasingly showing that long shifts are associated with higher rates of mistakes by young doctors.
Example:
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/
gazette/2004/10.28/01-sleep.html
“Interns made 36 percent more serious medical errors during a traditional work schedule than during an intervention schedule that eliminated extended work shifts,” notes Charles Czeisler, Baldino Professor of Sleep Medicine.
I’m not sure about fire departments, but medical research on interns and residents is increasingly showing that long shifts are associated with higher rates of mistakes by young doctors.
Example:
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/
gazette/2004/10.28/01-sleep.html
“Interns made 36 percent more serious medical errors during a traditional work schedule than during an intervention schedule that eliminated extended work shifts,” notes Charles Czeisler, Baldino Professor of Sleep Medicine.
I’m not sure about fire departments, but medical research on interns and residents is increasingly showing that long shifts are associated with higher rates of mistakes by young doctors.
Example:
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/
gazette/2004/10.28/01-sleep.html
“Interns made 36 percent more serious medical errors during a traditional work schedule than during an intervention schedule that eliminated extended work shifts,” notes Charles Czeisler, Baldino Professor of Sleep Medicine.
I’m not sure about fire departments, but medical research on interns and residents is increasingly showing that long shifts are associated with higher rates of mistakes by young doctors.
Example:
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/
gazette/2004/10.28/01-sleep.html
“Interns made 36 percent more serious medical errors during a traditional work schedule than during an intervention schedule that eliminated extended work shifts,” notes Charles Czeisler, Baldino Professor of Sleep Medicine.
If the overall goal is to make fire service more affordable, this is the wrong road. Shift changes like this would require 20% to 40% more fire fighters.
If the overall goal is to make fire service more affordable, this is the wrong road. Shift changes like this would require 20% to 40% more fire fighters.
If the overall goal is to make fire service more affordable, this is the wrong road. Shift changes like this would require 20% to 40% more fire fighters.
If the overall goal is to make fire service more affordable, this is the wrong road. Shift changes like this would require 20% to 40% more fire fighters.
That’s not what the article from 1999 found.
Regardless, safety is tops even over affordability.
That’s not what the article from 1999 found.
Regardless, safety is tops even over affordability.
That’s not what the article from 1999 found.
Regardless, safety is tops even over affordability.
That’s not what the article from 1999 found.
Regardless, safety is tops even over affordability.
If they’re at work, they should be up and dressed. There should always be someone awake and ready to go. The fire fighters should not be paid to sleep. Shorten the shifts, or let them work out sleep schedules such that a crew is always awake.
If they’re at work, they should be up and dressed. There should always be someone awake and ready to go. The fire fighters should not be paid to sleep. Shorten the shifts, or let them work out sleep schedules such that a crew is always awake.
If they’re at work, they should be up and dressed. There should always be someone awake and ready to go. The fire fighters should not be paid to sleep. Shorten the shifts, or let them work out sleep schedules such that a crew is always awake.
If they’re at work, they should be up and dressed. There should always be someone awake and ready to go. The fire fighters should not be paid to sleep. Shorten the shifts, or let them work out sleep schedules such that a crew is always awake.
If you put all of the fire fighters on a 40 hour work week then you have to somehow cover the 16 additional hours they currently work – the current work week is 56 hours. How do you cover the 16 hours without hiring more people.
If safety is first then Davis would build another fire station. That would cost more money also.
If you put all of the fire fighters on a 40 hour work week then you have to somehow cover the 16 additional hours they currently work – the current work week is 56 hours. How do you cover the 16 hours without hiring more people.
If safety is first then Davis would build another fire station. That would cost more money also.
If you put all of the fire fighters on a 40 hour work week then you have to somehow cover the 16 additional hours they currently work – the current work week is 56 hours. How do you cover the 16 hours without hiring more people.
If safety is first then Davis would build another fire station. That would cost more money also.
If you put all of the fire fighters on a 40 hour work week then you have to somehow cover the 16 additional hours they currently work – the current work week is 56 hours. How do you cover the 16 hours without hiring more people.
If safety is first then Davis would build another fire station. That would cost more money also.
I don’t understand how they work 56 hours if they are working 24 hour shifts?
How is a fourth fire station a safety issue?
I don’t understand how they work 56 hours if they are working 24 hour shifts?
How is a fourth fire station a safety issue?
I don’t understand how they work 56 hours if they are working 24 hour shifts?
How is a fourth fire station a safety issue?
I don’t understand how they work 56 hours if they are working 24 hour shifts?
How is a fourth fire station a safety issue?
Yes, I’m serious about my comment micromanaging the fire department. (Why would I need to answer a question like that anyway?)
If the current schedule is a problem for the employees, let them resolve it through their union. That would be a valid duty that their union could perform.
Yes, I’m serious about my comment micromanaging the fire department. (Why would I need to answer a question like that anyway?)
If the current schedule is a problem for the employees, let them resolve it through their union. That would be a valid duty that their union could perform.
Yes, I’m serious about my comment micromanaging the fire department. (Why would I need to answer a question like that anyway?)
If the current schedule is a problem for the employees, let them resolve it through their union. That would be a valid duty that their union could perform.
Yes, I’m serious about my comment micromanaging the fire department. (Why would I need to answer a question like that anyway?)
If the current schedule is a problem for the employees, let them resolve it through their union. That would be a valid duty that their union could perform.
Because I was surprised by it…
Now I need to ask this one: did you read the blog entry? Because now I’m surprised by this comment:
“If the current schedule is a problem for the employees…”
Obviously the issue raised here is not whether the current schedule is a problem for the employees.
Because I was surprised by it…
Now I need to ask this one: did you read the blog entry? Because now I’m surprised by this comment:
“If the current schedule is a problem for the employees…”
Obviously the issue raised here is not whether the current schedule is a problem for the employees.
Because I was surprised by it…
Now I need to ask this one: did you read the blog entry? Because now I’m surprised by this comment:
“If the current schedule is a problem for the employees…”
Obviously the issue raised here is not whether the current schedule is a problem for the employees.
Because I was surprised by it…
Now I need to ask this one: did you read the blog entry? Because now I’m surprised by this comment:
“If the current schedule is a problem for the employees…”
Obviously the issue raised here is not whether the current schedule is a problem for the employees.
It is hard to imagine anyone being able to function properly in an emergency situation when there are lacking sleep. I thought there were enough firefighters to provide shifts that are far below 24 hours. I don’t believe anyone should be paid to sleep, unless they are participating in sleep research experiments.
It is hard to imagine anyone being able to function properly in an emergency situation when there are lacking sleep. I thought there were enough firefighters to provide shifts that are far below 24 hours. I don’t believe anyone should be paid to sleep, unless they are participating in sleep research experiments.
It is hard to imagine anyone being able to function properly in an emergency situation when there are lacking sleep. I thought there were enough firefighters to provide shifts that are far below 24 hours. I don’t believe anyone should be paid to sleep, unless they are participating in sleep research experiments.
It is hard to imagine anyone being able to function properly in an emergency situation when there are lacking sleep. I thought there were enough firefighters to provide shifts that are far below 24 hours. I don’t believe anyone should be paid to sleep, unless they are participating in sleep research experiments.
“Paid to sleep” makes it sound like we are paying them to stay home snoozing in bed. They are being paid to be available and waiting for a call, not “paid to sleep” per se.
Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.
“Paid to sleep” makes it sound like we are paying them to stay home snoozing in bed. They are being paid to be available and waiting for a call, not “paid to sleep” per se.
Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.
“Paid to sleep” makes it sound like we are paying them to stay home snoozing in bed. They are being paid to be available and waiting for a call, not “paid to sleep” per se.
Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.
“Paid to sleep” makes it sound like we are paying them to stay home snoozing in bed. They are being paid to be available and waiting for a call, not “paid to sleep” per se.
Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.
There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.
There’s no issue here.
You may not be micromanaging but you and the Vanguardian are arm-chair quarterbacking a nonissue, as usual.
There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.
There’s no issue here.
You may not be micromanaging but you and the Vanguardian are arm-chair quarterbacking a nonissue, as usual.
There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.
There’s no issue here.
You may not be micromanaging but you and the Vanguardian are arm-chair quarterbacking a nonissue, as usual.
There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.
There’s no issue here.
You may not be micromanaging but you and the Vanguardian are arm-chair quarterbacking a nonissue, as usual.
How is it a nonissue–somebody died? Can you tell me if those firefighters were awake, that they wouldn’t have? No you can’t.
Secondly, if the 24 hour firefighter shift is a nonissue, how come there is some much research and literature on it?
Sorry, you may not agree with me, but that in and of itself does not make this a nonissue.
How is it a nonissue–somebody died? Can you tell me if those firefighters were awake, that they wouldn’t have? No you can’t.
Secondly, if the 24 hour firefighter shift is a nonissue, how come there is some much research and literature on it?
Sorry, you may not agree with me, but that in and of itself does not make this a nonissue.
How is it a nonissue–somebody died? Can you tell me if those firefighters were awake, that they wouldn’t have? No you can’t.
Secondly, if the 24 hour firefighter shift is a nonissue, how come there is some much research and literature on it?
Sorry, you may not agree with me, but that in and of itself does not make this a nonissue.
How is it a nonissue–somebody died? Can you tell me if those firefighters were awake, that they wouldn’t have? No you can’t.
Secondly, if the 24 hour firefighter shift is a nonissue, how come there is some much research and literature on it?
Sorry, you may not agree with me, but that in and of itself does not make this a nonissue.
Good points DPD. In addition to what DPD said regarding your seemingly callous disregard for human life, I’d add to this point:
“There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.”
Davis Fire Chief Rose Conroy likes to brag that they can get up and out the door in one minute. That would mean they would be out the station in a minute and to the fire a minute after that which would have been four minutes earlier than they actually arrived. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked here.
Good points DPD. In addition to what DPD said regarding your seemingly callous disregard for human life, I’d add to this point:
“There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.”
Davis Fire Chief Rose Conroy likes to brag that they can get up and out the door in one minute. That would mean they would be out the station in a minute and to the fire a minute after that which would have been four minutes earlier than they actually arrived. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked here.
Good points DPD. In addition to what DPD said regarding your seemingly callous disregard for human life, I’d add to this point:
“There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.”
Davis Fire Chief Rose Conroy likes to brag that they can get up and out the door in one minute. That would mean they would be out the station in a minute and to the fire a minute after that which would have been four minutes earlier than they actually arrived. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked here.
Good points DPD. In addition to what DPD said regarding your seemingly callous disregard for human life, I’d add to this point:
“There is a considerable difference between a police officer patroling the streets and driving to a fire nearby and the launching of a fire crew and truck from the station, requiring firefighters to get into full blown fire gear (it’s not like they can walk around in a big coat and hat the whole shift), all getting into the truck, departing the fire station, and arriving at the scene.”
Davis Fire Chief Rose Conroy likes to brag that they can get up and out the door in one minute. That would mean they would be out the station in a minute and to the fire a minute after that which would have been four minutes earlier than they actually arrived. I think there are reasonable questions to be asked here.
It should be remembered that it took 10 minutes for the fire fighters to find the victim, after they arrived.
Since we are talking about safety it should also be pointed out that people should not smoke in bed and apartments should have smoke alarms.
It should be remembered that it took 10 minutes for the fire fighters to find the victim, after they arrived.
Since we are talking about safety it should also be pointed out that people should not smoke in bed and apartments should have smoke alarms.
It should be remembered that it took 10 minutes for the fire fighters to find the victim, after they arrived.
Since we are talking about safety it should also be pointed out that people should not smoke in bed and apartments should have smoke alarms.
It should be remembered that it took 10 minutes for the fire fighters to find the victim, after they arrived.
Since we are talking about safety it should also be pointed out that people should not smoke in bed and apartments should have smoke alarms.
Well first lets get a few facts straight. Whether awake or asleep a firefighter still has to have all his fire gear on and belted in before the trucks leaves the station. If they were sleeping, you don’t get dressed into your regular clothes, you just put on your turnout gear. Now was the half mile the Engine was driving a straight shot to the fire or were there street lights that the truck had to stop at and corners to turn. There is a difference in time when you factor in these issues. I know for a fact that for many firefighters there is no difference between being awake and getting dressed and sleeping and being awaked to get dressed. Another issue is dispatch time. Did the 911 dispatch center transfer the call right way and how quick were the apparatus/ firefighters notified. Lastly if you have never searched a unfamiliar building with lights on, well try it when it is on fire and you can’t see your hands in front of your face and you are searching on your hands and knees following the walls, its not easy so you need to take a step back and quit your monday morning quarterbacking.
Well first lets get a few facts straight. Whether awake or asleep a firefighter still has to have all his fire gear on and belted in before the trucks leaves the station. If they were sleeping, you don’t get dressed into your regular clothes, you just put on your turnout gear. Now was the half mile the Engine was driving a straight shot to the fire or were there street lights that the truck had to stop at and corners to turn. There is a difference in time when you factor in these issues. I know for a fact that for many firefighters there is no difference between being awake and getting dressed and sleeping and being awaked to get dressed. Another issue is dispatch time. Did the 911 dispatch center transfer the call right way and how quick were the apparatus/ firefighters notified. Lastly if you have never searched a unfamiliar building with lights on, well try it when it is on fire and you can’t see your hands in front of your face and you are searching on your hands and knees following the walls, its not easy so you need to take a step back and quit your monday morning quarterbacking.
Well first lets get a few facts straight. Whether awake or asleep a firefighter still has to have all his fire gear on and belted in before the trucks leaves the station. If they were sleeping, you don’t get dressed into your regular clothes, you just put on your turnout gear. Now was the half mile the Engine was driving a straight shot to the fire or were there street lights that the truck had to stop at and corners to turn. There is a difference in time when you factor in these issues. I know for a fact that for many firefighters there is no difference between being awake and getting dressed and sleeping and being awaked to get dressed. Another issue is dispatch time. Did the 911 dispatch center transfer the call right way and how quick were the apparatus/ firefighters notified. Lastly if you have never searched a unfamiliar building with lights on, well try it when it is on fire and you can’t see your hands in front of your face and you are searching on your hands and knees following the walls, its not easy so you need to take a step back and quit your monday morning quarterbacking.
Well first lets get a few facts straight. Whether awake or asleep a firefighter still has to have all his fire gear on and belted in before the trucks leaves the station. If they were sleeping, you don’t get dressed into your regular clothes, you just put on your turnout gear. Now was the half mile the Engine was driving a straight shot to the fire or were there street lights that the truck had to stop at and corners to turn. There is a difference in time when you factor in these issues. I know for a fact that for many firefighters there is no difference between being awake and getting dressed and sleeping and being awaked to get dressed. Another issue is dispatch time. Did the 911 dispatch center transfer the call right way and how quick were the apparatus/ firefighters notified. Lastly if you have never searched a unfamiliar building with lights on, well try it when it is on fire and you can’t see your hands in front of your face and you are searching on your hands and knees following the walls, its not easy so you need to take a step back and quit your monday morning quarterbacking.
“Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.”
Yes, the slant of portraying firefighters as “paid to sleep,” is a bit tabloidish.
What’s needed here is for Dave Greenwald to go interview some Davis firefighters and spend some time in one of the Davis firehouses. Then he’ll be able to give us some more objective (i.e., less opinionated) reportage on the issue.
Am sure Davis firefighters go through rigorous training before they get to put on the helmet and big coat and go out on calls.
Let’s hear the some rank-and-file trained firefighters’ side of the story…
“Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.”
Yes, the slant of portraying firefighters as “paid to sleep,” is a bit tabloidish.
What’s needed here is for Dave Greenwald to go interview some Davis firefighters and spend some time in one of the Davis firehouses. Then he’ll be able to give us some more objective (i.e., less opinionated) reportage on the issue.
Am sure Davis firefighters go through rigorous training before they get to put on the helmet and big coat and go out on calls.
Let’s hear the some rank-and-file trained firefighters’ side of the story…
“Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.”
Yes, the slant of portraying firefighters as “paid to sleep,” is a bit tabloidish.
What’s needed here is for Dave Greenwald to go interview some Davis firefighters and spend some time in one of the Davis firehouses. Then he’ll be able to give us some more objective (i.e., less opinionated) reportage on the issue.
Am sure Davis firefighters go through rigorous training before they get to put on the helmet and big coat and go out on calls.
Let’s hear the some rank-and-file trained firefighters’ side of the story…
“Shorter shifts may very well be a good idea. I just think the question is worded a little unfairly.”
Yes, the slant of portraying firefighters as “paid to sleep,” is a bit tabloidish.
What’s needed here is for Dave Greenwald to go interview some Davis firefighters and spend some time in one of the Davis firehouses. Then he’ll be able to give us some more objective (i.e., less opinionated) reportage on the issue.
Am sure Davis firefighters go through rigorous training before they get to put on the helmet and big coat and go out on calls.
Let’s hear the some rank-and-file trained firefighters’ side of the story…
I went on a ridealong last year.
Scroll down
I went on a ridealong last year.
Scroll down
I went on a ridealong last year.
Scroll down
I went on a ridealong last year.
Scroll down
I have been a professional firefighter for many years. Anonymous 7:15 really made great points that you all should re-read. There are so many factors involved here that just the time and space it would take to provide general citizens like yourselves, even with your extensive one ride along experience, the information to understand this issue in it’s entirety would be ridiculous. Frankly, a 5 minute response in a state of full readiness to a structure fire is very impressive. Even “awake” firefighters are not simply sitting in fire engines in full structure fire gear waiting for a fire. The business day is full of trainings, fire prevention, public education, and many, many other programs. The response to a fire that is 1/2 mile from a station can also be affected by the station crew attending to a prior emergency and the next crew coming from a different station. No one is callous to a loss of life. Firefighters have dedicated their lives to the protection of the lives of others and their property. Sleep patterns and levels of alertness are adaptations that are made throughout a career. The adrenaline factor should not be overlooked when making a judgement regarding respone alertness. I have to say that as impressed as I have been in observing many of your calls to action and watchdog efforts, I am severly dissappointed with your take on this one. The general consensus of the fire service in California is a movement of most departments to the schedule of 48 hours on and 96 hours off duty. Based on extensive research, not employee feelings and opinions or funding issues. I would encourage all of you to take the time to speak with a professional firefighter that will discuss this issue in depth, they are not hard to find.
I have been a professional firefighter for many years. Anonymous 7:15 really made great points that you all should re-read. There are so many factors involved here that just the time and space it would take to provide general citizens like yourselves, even with your extensive one ride along experience, the information to understand this issue in it’s entirety would be ridiculous. Frankly, a 5 minute response in a state of full readiness to a structure fire is very impressive. Even “awake” firefighters are not simply sitting in fire engines in full structure fire gear waiting for a fire. The business day is full of trainings, fire prevention, public education, and many, many other programs. The response to a fire that is 1/2 mile from a station can also be affected by the station crew attending to a prior emergency and the next crew coming from a different station. No one is callous to a loss of life. Firefighters have dedicated their lives to the protection of the lives of others and their property. Sleep patterns and levels of alertness are adaptations that are made throughout a career. The adrenaline factor should not be overlooked when making a judgement regarding respone alertness. I have to say that as impressed as I have been in observing many of your calls to action and watchdog efforts, I am severly dissappointed with your take on this one. The general consensus of the fire service in California is a movement of most departments to the schedule of 48 hours on and 96 hours off duty. Based on extensive research, not employee feelings and opinions or funding issues. I would encourage all of you to take the time to speak with a professional firefighter that will discuss this issue in depth, they are not hard to find.
I have been a professional firefighter for many years. Anonymous 7:15 really made great points that you all should re-read. There are so many factors involved here that just the time and space it would take to provide general citizens like yourselves, even with your extensive one ride along experience, the information to understand this issue in it’s entirety would be ridiculous. Frankly, a 5 minute response in a state of full readiness to a structure fire is very impressive. Even “awake” firefighters are not simply sitting in fire engines in full structure fire gear waiting for a fire. The business day is full of trainings, fire prevention, public education, and many, many other programs. The response to a fire that is 1/2 mile from a station can also be affected by the station crew attending to a prior emergency and the next crew coming from a different station. No one is callous to a loss of life. Firefighters have dedicated their lives to the protection of the lives of others and their property. Sleep patterns and levels of alertness are adaptations that are made throughout a career. The adrenaline factor should not be overlooked when making a judgement regarding respone alertness. I have to say that as impressed as I have been in observing many of your calls to action and watchdog efforts, I am severly dissappointed with your take on this one. The general consensus of the fire service in California is a movement of most departments to the schedule of 48 hours on and 96 hours off duty. Based on extensive research, not employee feelings and opinions or funding issues. I would encourage all of you to take the time to speak with a professional firefighter that will discuss this issue in depth, they are not hard to find.
I have been a professional firefighter for many years. Anonymous 7:15 really made great points that you all should re-read. There are so many factors involved here that just the time and space it would take to provide general citizens like yourselves, even with your extensive one ride along experience, the information to understand this issue in it’s entirety would be ridiculous. Frankly, a 5 minute response in a state of full readiness to a structure fire is very impressive. Even “awake” firefighters are not simply sitting in fire engines in full structure fire gear waiting for a fire. The business day is full of trainings, fire prevention, public education, and many, many other programs. The response to a fire that is 1/2 mile from a station can also be affected by the station crew attending to a prior emergency and the next crew coming from a different station. No one is callous to a loss of life. Firefighters have dedicated their lives to the protection of the lives of others and their property. Sleep patterns and levels of alertness are adaptations that are made throughout a career. The adrenaline factor should not be overlooked when making a judgement regarding respone alertness. I have to say that as impressed as I have been in observing many of your calls to action and watchdog efforts, I am severly dissappointed with your take on this one. The general consensus of the fire service in California is a movement of most departments to the schedule of 48 hours on and 96 hours off duty. Based on extensive research, not employee feelings and opinions or funding issues. I would encourage all of you to take the time to speak with a professional firefighter that will discuss this issue in depth, they are not hard to find.
Please refer to anonymous 7:31 not 7:15 regarding the information referred to in the prior entry.
Thanks.
Please refer to anonymous 7:31 not 7:15 regarding the information referred to in the prior entry.
Thanks.
Please refer to anonymous 7:31 not 7:15 regarding the information referred to in the prior entry.
Thanks.
Please refer to anonymous 7:31 not 7:15 regarding the information referred to in the prior entry.
Thanks.
You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths …..
You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths …..
You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths …..
You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths …..
Dear Pofessional Firefighter @ 9:34 –
Thank you and the other firefighters for the important work you do by saving lives
and fighting fires.
DPD (David) asks a good question; do you firefighters feel sleep deprived? Would it not be better to work 12 hour shifts for your safety and the safety of the public? It seems reasonable and it’s a good question.
Dear Pofessional Firefighter @ 9:34 –
Thank you and the other firefighters for the important work you do by saving lives
and fighting fires.
DPD (David) asks a good question; do you firefighters feel sleep deprived? Would it not be better to work 12 hour shifts for your safety and the safety of the public? It seems reasonable and it’s a good question.
Dear Pofessional Firefighter @ 9:34 –
Thank you and the other firefighters for the important work you do by saving lives
and fighting fires.
DPD (David) asks a good question; do you firefighters feel sleep deprived? Would it not be better to work 12 hour shifts for your safety and the safety of the public? It seems reasonable and it’s a good question.
Dear Pofessional Firefighter @ 9:34 –
Thank you and the other firefighters for the important work you do by saving lives
and fighting fires.
DPD (David) asks a good question; do you firefighters feel sleep deprived? Would it not be better to work 12 hour shifts for your safety and the safety of the public? It seems reasonable and it’s a good question.
I would love to work the night shift at the fire station in West Davis. Getting paid $100k a year to watch late nite adult infomercials and play ping-pong. What a dream! How in the world would someone stay awake for 12 hours on the late shift when they might handle perhaps one call during the entire shift? Ouch! Maybe an analysis of how busy the each of the stations would be helpful. I think the west Davis station is the least busy one. And how many actual fires does the FD respond to each year versus medical aids where they can’t even transport!
I would love to work the night shift at the fire station in West Davis. Getting paid $100k a year to watch late nite adult infomercials and play ping-pong. What a dream! How in the world would someone stay awake for 12 hours on the late shift when they might handle perhaps one call during the entire shift? Ouch! Maybe an analysis of how busy the each of the stations would be helpful. I think the west Davis station is the least busy one. And how many actual fires does the FD respond to each year versus medical aids where they can’t even transport!
I would love to work the night shift at the fire station in West Davis. Getting paid $100k a year to watch late nite adult infomercials and play ping-pong. What a dream! How in the world would someone stay awake for 12 hours on the late shift when they might handle perhaps one call during the entire shift? Ouch! Maybe an analysis of how busy the each of the stations would be helpful. I think the west Davis station is the least busy one. And how many actual fires does the FD respond to each year versus medical aids where they can’t even transport!
I would love to work the night shift at the fire station in West Davis. Getting paid $100k a year to watch late nite adult infomercials and play ping-pong. What a dream! How in the world would someone stay awake for 12 hours on the late shift when they might handle perhaps one call during the entire shift? Ouch! Maybe an analysis of how busy the each of the stations would be helpful. I think the west Davis station is the least busy one. And how many actual fires does the FD respond to each year versus medical aids where they can’t even transport!
“You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths ….. “
I’m curious to know before I make this change, what you consider to be the holes and untruths of my commentary. Thanks.
“You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths ….. “
I’m curious to know before I make this change, what you consider to be the holes and untruths of my commentary. Thanks.
“You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths ….. “
I’m curious to know before I make this change, what you consider to be the holes and untruths of my commentary. Thanks.
“You should change the name of this blog , maybe the new name should be ” The People’s National Enquirer of Davis ” , because your reporting is so full of holes and untruths ….. “
I’m curious to know before I make this change, what you consider to be the holes and untruths of my commentary. Thanks.
I really don’t have any problem with a 24 hour shift. The question I’ve got is where our firefighters stand in terms of pay/overtime/bennies relative to an average of other similar sized towns, fire frequency across the US. If they’re ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue. Also, I’d like to know how they matchup in terms of contributions (time and money) made to local political campaigns.
I really don’t have any problem with a 24 hour shift. The question I’ve got is where our firefighters stand in terms of pay/overtime/bennies relative to an average of other similar sized towns, fire frequency across the US. If they’re ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue. Also, I’d like to know how they matchup in terms of contributions (time and money) made to local political campaigns.
I really don’t have any problem with a 24 hour shift. The question I’ve got is where our firefighters stand in terms of pay/overtime/bennies relative to an average of other similar sized towns, fire frequency across the US. If they’re ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue. Also, I’d like to know how they matchup in terms of contributions (time and money) made to local political campaigns.
I really don’t have any problem with a 24 hour shift. The question I’ve got is where our firefighters stand in terms of pay/overtime/bennies relative to an average of other similar sized towns, fire frequency across the US. If they’re ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue. Also, I’d like to know how they matchup in terms of contributions (time and money) made to local political campaigns.
“If they’re [firefighters] in the ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue.”
Right. I would like to see you run that campaign spending thousands of dollars and being labeled a firefighter hater just for broaching the subject of responsible spending.
They have the council members by the cajones. Pardon my Spanish I don’t know if I spelled it correctly.
“If they’re [firefighters] in the ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue.”
Right. I would like to see you run that campaign spending thousands of dollars and being labeled a firefighter hater just for broaching the subject of responsible spending.
They have the council members by the cajones. Pardon my Spanish I don’t know if I spelled it correctly.
“If they’re [firefighters] in the ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue.”
Right. I would like to see you run that campaign spending thousands of dollars and being labeled a firefighter hater just for broaching the subject of responsible spending.
They have the council members by the cajones. Pardon my Spanish I don’t know if I spelled it correctly.
“If they’re [firefighters] in the ballpark, then leave them alone. If they’re overpaid then lets get a candidate to make it a campaign issue.”
Right. I would like to see you run that campaign spending thousands of dollars and being labeled a firefighter hater just for broaching the subject of responsible spending.
They have the council members by the cajones. Pardon my Spanish I don’t know if I spelled it correctly.
do you know for a fact that the woman died because they arrived a few minutes after the call or is Barry Allen feeding you misinformation???????
before you make the claim you ought to have the facts, which in glendale vanguard and barry allen sivermans case are realey factual
do you know for a fact that the woman died because they arrived a few minutes after the call or is Barry Allen feeding you misinformation???????
before you make the claim you ought to have the facts, which in glendale vanguard and barry allen sivermans case are realey factual
do you know for a fact that the woman died because they arrived a few minutes after the call or is Barry Allen feeding you misinformation???????
before you make the claim you ought to have the facts, which in glendale vanguard and barry allen sivermans case are realey factual
do you know for a fact that the woman died because they arrived a few minutes after the call or is Barry Allen feeding you misinformation???????
before you make the claim you ought to have the facts, which in glendale vanguard and barry allen sivermans case are realey factual
This is one of the dumbest posts the Vanguard has ever published. Dumb for so many reasons although none so dumb as the notion that firefighters are “paid to sleep.” What an inane statement.
Also, has it occurred to anyone that police are often faster to respond because they are up and driving around all night? Is that what we want firefighters to do?
Come on! Think people! Think!
This is one of the dumbest posts the Vanguard has ever published. Dumb for so many reasons although none so dumb as the notion that firefighters are “paid to sleep.” What an inane statement.
Also, has it occurred to anyone that police are often faster to respond because they are up and driving around all night? Is that what we want firefighters to do?
Come on! Think people! Think!
This is one of the dumbest posts the Vanguard has ever published. Dumb for so many reasons although none so dumb as the notion that firefighters are “paid to sleep.” What an inane statement.
Also, has it occurred to anyone that police are often faster to respond because they are up and driving around all night? Is that what we want firefighters to do?
Come on! Think people! Think!
This is one of the dumbest posts the Vanguard has ever published. Dumb for so many reasons although none so dumb as the notion that firefighters are “paid to sleep.” What an inane statement.
Also, has it occurred to anyone that police are often faster to respond because they are up and driving around all night? Is that what we want firefighters to do?
Come on! Think people! Think!
The article in Vanguard (Glendale) Weekly News took information directly from the Fire Deaprtment incident reports and radio logs. All information is obtained through the California ublic Records Act and we will report on the activities of the fire companies (12) upon receipt. At 0200 in a retail center and residential area 1/2 mile isn’t a difficult ride. Even when slowing down for 4 traffic signals. Use Google and track it yourself. Bottom line is that we pay a lot for mediocrity and the lack of accountability and for the failure to provide oversight on the management of our first responders.
It is obvious that a representative of the Glendale Fire Department has commented on this issue. The Question is, “Why is it necessary for him to hide his name, is he ashamed?”
Barry Allen, Vanguardians
http://www.vanguardians.org
The article in Vanguard (Glendale) Weekly News took information directly from the Fire Deaprtment incident reports and radio logs. All information is obtained through the California ublic Records Act and we will report on the activities of the fire companies (12) upon receipt. At 0200 in a retail center and residential area 1/2 mile isn’t a difficult ride. Even when slowing down for 4 traffic signals. Use Google and track it yourself. Bottom line is that we pay a lot for mediocrity and the lack of accountability and for the failure to provide oversight on the management of our first responders.
It is obvious that a representative of the Glendale Fire Department has commented on this issue. The Question is, “Why is it necessary for him to hide his name, is he ashamed?”
Barry Allen, Vanguardians
http://www.vanguardians.org
The article in Vanguard (Glendale) Weekly News took information directly from the Fire Deaprtment incident reports and radio logs. All information is obtained through the California ublic Records Act and we will report on the activities of the fire companies (12) upon receipt. At 0200 in a retail center and residential area 1/2 mile isn’t a difficult ride. Even when slowing down for 4 traffic signals. Use Google and track it yourself. Bottom line is that we pay a lot for mediocrity and the lack of accountability and for the failure to provide oversight on the management of our first responders.
It is obvious that a representative of the Glendale Fire Department has commented on this issue. The Question is, “Why is it necessary for him to hide his name, is he ashamed?”
Barry Allen, Vanguardians
http://www.vanguardians.org
The article in Vanguard (Glendale) Weekly News took information directly from the Fire Deaprtment incident reports and radio logs. All information is obtained through the California ublic Records Act and we will report on the activities of the fire companies (12) upon receipt. At 0200 in a retail center and residential area 1/2 mile isn’t a difficult ride. Even when slowing down for 4 traffic signals. Use Google and track it yourself. Bottom line is that we pay a lot for mediocrity and the lack of accountability and for the failure to provide oversight on the management of our first responders.
It is obvious that a representative of the Glendale Fire Department has commented on this issue. The Question is, “Why is it necessary for him to hide his name, is he ashamed?”
Barry Allen, Vanguardians
http://www.vanguardians.org
Okay lets give the turnouts to the policeman to solve the first problem, next well sign you up for the next fire academy.
Okay lets give the turnouts to the policeman to solve the first problem, next well sign you up for the next fire academy.
Okay lets give the turnouts to the policeman to solve the first problem, next well sign you up for the next fire academy.
Okay lets give the turnouts to the policeman to solve the first problem, next well sign you up for the next fire academy.
You pay for a lot of mediocrity? Based on what? On this entry? Give me a break. My comment about police was that they are driving around all night. Consequently their response time can be literally seconds or several minutes. It depends on where they are when the call comes in. Fire personnel have to come from their station so unless the fire is next door in inevitably takes them awhile to get their. Look at your city’s insurance ratings. They are based on response times. Davis response times are well within the norm.
I guess this blog does a public service by allowing every “know-nothing” in the city to comment. Sad though all the same.
You pay for a lot of mediocrity? Based on what? On this entry? Give me a break. My comment about police was that they are driving around all night. Consequently their response time can be literally seconds or several minutes. It depends on where they are when the call comes in. Fire personnel have to come from their station so unless the fire is next door in inevitably takes them awhile to get their. Look at your city’s insurance ratings. They are based on response times. Davis response times are well within the norm.
I guess this blog does a public service by allowing every “know-nothing” in the city to comment. Sad though all the same.
You pay for a lot of mediocrity? Based on what? On this entry? Give me a break. My comment about police was that they are driving around all night. Consequently their response time can be literally seconds or several minutes. It depends on where they are when the call comes in. Fire personnel have to come from their station so unless the fire is next door in inevitably takes them awhile to get their. Look at your city’s insurance ratings. They are based on response times. Davis response times are well within the norm.
I guess this blog does a public service by allowing every “know-nothing” in the city to comment. Sad though all the same.
You pay for a lot of mediocrity? Based on what? On this entry? Give me a break. My comment about police was that they are driving around all night. Consequently their response time can be literally seconds or several minutes. It depends on where they are when the call comes in. Fire personnel have to come from their station so unless the fire is next door in inevitably takes them awhile to get their. Look at your city’s insurance ratings. They are based on response times. Davis response times are well within the norm.
I guess this blog does a public service by allowing every “know-nothing” in the city to comment. Sad though all the same.
You might want to read a bit more closely anonymous, Barry Allen is from Glendale was referring to an incident that occurred there that was referenced in the blog entry.
You might want to read a bit more closely anonymous, Barry Allen is from Glendale was referring to an incident that occurred there that was referenced in the blog entry.
You might want to read a bit more closely anonymous, Barry Allen is from Glendale was referring to an incident that occurred there that was referenced in the blog entry.
You might want to read a bit more closely anonymous, Barry Allen is from Glendale was referring to an incident that occurred there that was referenced in the blog entry.
Barry Allen Silver throws mud every where he goes and attempts to see if it will stick, he has proved along with the other stoges in his group that he is nothing but a self absorbed blowhard
he would not know a fact if it bit him.
His sole job in the city is to attempt to stir up the public with gossip.
Barry Allen Silverman wastes thousands of tax ayer dollars and man hours by the city in his gross attempt to find some sort of conspirisy.
He is a jok and always will be
Barry Allen Silver throws mud every where he goes and attempts to see if it will stick, he has proved along with the other stoges in his group that he is nothing but a self absorbed blowhard
he would not know a fact if it bit him.
His sole job in the city is to attempt to stir up the public with gossip.
Barry Allen Silverman wastes thousands of tax ayer dollars and man hours by the city in his gross attempt to find some sort of conspirisy.
He is a jok and always will be
Barry Allen Silver throws mud every where he goes and attempts to see if it will stick, he has proved along with the other stoges in his group that he is nothing but a self absorbed blowhard
he would not know a fact if it bit him.
His sole job in the city is to attempt to stir up the public with gossip.
Barry Allen Silverman wastes thousands of tax ayer dollars and man hours by the city in his gross attempt to find some sort of conspirisy.
He is a jok and always will be
Barry Allen Silver throws mud every where he goes and attempts to see if it will stick, he has proved along with the other stoges in his group that he is nothing but a self absorbed blowhard
he would not know a fact if it bit him.
His sole job in the city is to attempt to stir up the public with gossip.
Barry Allen Silverman wastes thousands of tax ayer dollars and man hours by the city in his gross attempt to find some sort of conspirisy.
He is a jok and always will be
There could be many reasons why they werent at the scene quick enough to the scene. They could be held up by a a car blocking the bay door, they chould of had bad traffic, they could have had problems with the truck. So don’t just start jumping to conclusins and saying they were sleeping instead of responding so they shouldnt get payed. Why didnt you save the life yourself if you say they were sleeping? huh?
There could be many reasons why they werent at the scene quick enough to the scene. They could be held up by a a car blocking the bay door, they chould of had bad traffic, they could have had problems with the truck. So don’t just start jumping to conclusins and saying they were sleeping instead of responding so they shouldnt get payed. Why didnt you save the life yourself if you say they were sleeping? huh?
There could be many reasons why they werent at the scene quick enough to the scene. They could be held up by a a car blocking the bay door, they chould of had bad traffic, they could have had problems with the truck. So don’t just start jumping to conclusins and saying they were sleeping instead of responding so they shouldnt get payed. Why didnt you save the life yourself if you say they were sleeping? huh?
There could be many reasons why they werent at the scene quick enough to the scene. They could be held up by a a car blocking the bay door, they chould of had bad traffic, they could have had problems with the truck. So don’t just start jumping to conclusins and saying they were sleeping instead of responding so they shouldnt get payed. Why didnt you save the life yourself if you say they were sleeping? huh?