Commentary: Republicans Have Probably Squandered Any Chance At Latino Votes

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latino-votersNearly 50 years ago, as President Lyndon Johnson pushed through the Civil Rights Act, he remarked to Bill Moyers, “We just delivered the South to the Republican Party for a long time to come.”  It was a statement that proved correct.

In fact, the Democrats went through a period of time when they not only slowly lost over the south to the Republicans over the course of the next thirty years, but were completely non-competitive – with the exception of 1976 – in Presidential elections until 1992.

But demographics in this country are shifting rapidly and everyone seemed to recognize the polling results from the last election that showed the movement away from the Republican Party by, not just blacks (who have heavily voted for Democrats for the past fifty years), but also Hispanics and even Asian voters.

The growth in the number of Latino voters and the shift in the electoral fortunes in several critical states seemed to awaken the Republicans to the notion that they have to deal with immigration reform.  Now, more astute observers quickly realized that the Republicans had a deeper problem with Latinos than just immigration, but there was a general sense that the immigration issue and the stance of Mitt Romney antagonized large swaths of Latino voters.

There was a concerted effort, at least by some key Senators this year, to deal with immigration reform.  Again, I’m not sure that would have been the game changer I think some hoped for.

However, whatever hope the Republicans had to change perceptions is gone now.  That is the result of the Republican-led House effort to prohibit funding for the President’s “Dream Act,” which would have halted deportations of young immigrants – many who came here as children by the actions of their parents – if they have served in the military or are attending college.

The optics of this vote is horrendous for a party desperate to remake their image among Latino voters.

Senator Richard Durbin quickly jumped on the vote, calling the vote “shameful” and “mean-spirited.”  He said that it “shows that House Republicans have a tin ear for politics and cold hearts when it comes to compassion for young people who have only known America as their home.”

While it is easy to dismiss such comments as political banter and rhetoric, the optics here are way off if you are a Republican.  This act does not deal with the broader immigration issue.  It is very narrow – it deals with young immigrants who grew up in this country, it deals with immigrants who did not make the decision to come here but were brought here by their families, it deals specifically with people who are in the military or going to college.

Why target them?  Forget the politics, what is the policy goal here?

The program simply allows these young people in very specific circumstances to apply to gain temporary legal status and avoid the risk of deportation for two years.

As the LA Times reports, “The deferral program was largely seen as a stopgap alternative to the Dream Act, failed legislation that would give the young people a route to citizenship. The Dream Act is included in the bipartisan Senate immigration overhaul. Young people who call themselves Dreamers have become prominent in the immigration debate.”

And yet the response of Iowa Congressman Steve King is, in fact, tone-deaf.  He said, “Whatever people think of the impending immigration policy here in the United States, we cannot allow the executive branch to usurp the legislative authority of the United States Congress…  If we allow that to happen in immigration, it could happen to anything.”

So, basically, Steve King has thrown his party’s efforts to woo Latino voters under the bus in a turf battle.

This is an extraordinarily bad move from a political standpoint.  And it is a party-line situation.  Only three Democrats voted for it, while six Republicans voted against it, mainly in districts in California and Florida were there are large Latino populations.

But the damage is now done.  The message is clear.  In one ill-conceived vote, the Republicans have nullified any benefit they might have gotten from immigration reform.  The fact that this is largely symbolic makes it worse.

The Republicans have now handed the Democrats the Latino vote for at least the next generation and, with it, perhaps the keys to White House and eventually the Congress.

As the Times reports, “Except for the Senate bill’s bipartisan drafters, other Republicans have been cool to the legislation. Top Republicans, including Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, a key author, have been working to bring Republicans on board. But a meeting with House Republicans this week showed little interest.”

Meanwhile, Speaker John Boehner has been working to reach out to Latinos.

In an op-ed in Spanish he wrote, “Making the process of becoming a legal immigrant fairer and more efficient will help America remain a magnet for the brightest minds and hardest workers.”

And then he turns around to vote for this legislation.  He might as well give up.  But I guess he can’t help himself.

—David M. Greenwald reporting

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About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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57 thoughts on “Commentary: Republicans Have Probably Squandered Any Chance At Latino Votes”

  1. J.R.

    [quote]Republicans Have Probably Squandered Any Chance At Latino Votes[/quote]

    Except for those Latinos who care about using the IRS to oppress political opponents, spying on the press, abandoning UC consuls under attack, lying to the American people and press, massive spying through the internet and phone systems, massive government corruption, etc etc.

  2. Frankly

    Latinos, in general, are going to vote just like blacks tend to vote… for the party that gives them the most free stuff. They have been sucked into the cradle-to-grave welfare and entitlement mindset. The flood of uneducated, poor, insecure and needy Latinos from the southern border is a bonanza for Democrats. Republicans should give up on trying to win ANY moocher votes because the would have to promise more free stuff, and then they would not be Republicans.

    Illegal immigration has set this state up for decline and eventual bankruptcy. The country too. And it has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with the lack of assimilation into the traditional American value system of self-determination, hard work, risk-taking, and independence.

  3. David M. Greenwald

    Frankly: I think that’s revisionary history and ignores what has transpired. For years, Latinos vote was largely split. That changed in the 1990s with the advent of some of the anti-immigration policies being pushed by Governor Wilson and others. For years, Republicans believed that Latinos would be more socially conservative and thus more inclined to support Republicans than Blacks. That has seemed to shift plus the overwhelming concern is fiscal issues rather than social issues. I understand you are writing this off as inevitable, but I don’t think most saw it like that a decade ago or even last year.

  4. Don Shor

    [quote]Latinos, in general, are going to vote just like blacks tend to vote… for the party that gives them the most free stuff.[/quote]

    Now tell us how Caucasians and Asians vote, please, and what their motives are. I can’t wait.

  5. Frankly

    David. Sorry, but I think that is bullshit. The economy fell off the tracks and in all cased where we have had a depression or recession, the voters tend to migrate toward the Democrat Party. However, the economic policies of the Democrats controlling this state and the nation are akin to locking these folks onto the plantation. More and more are growing disconnected with the American values of hard work, self-determination… and that process of climbing the individual ladder of increased prosperity.

    There is no easy way to sell a conservative viewpoint and mindset sitting next to an opponent that hands out free stuff while implementing economic and regulatory malaise to prevent access to the alternative.

    It used to be that there was a percentage of people that could be convinced that their lot in life would be the greatest pursuing their own individual path toward prosperity. Many of these people would work in a trade, become skilled and either make a greater wage or even start their own business. Now, a larger percentage see their best path is to get entitlements and maybe a government job where they can work less hard, get paid more and retire early.

    How is a good Republican supposed to compete with that.

    Where we are headed is the same as what we see in old Europe. But like the old European socialists, the American social Democrats holding the reigns of power are too blind and too egotistical to admit what is wrong.

    I have noted that for a leftist, being wrong is a fate worse than destroying everything around them. We see proof of this in our current President.

  6. David M. Greenwald

    Except that you are ignoring the point at which the shift occurred, it wasn’t when the economy collapsed, it was 1995-96 when the country’s economy was probably the strongest it has been in decades. There was a brief period in 2004, after George Bush made strong overtures that the Latino vote advantage shrank, but Romney made the decision to move to the right of Governor Perry in the primary and the idea of voluntary deportation was an anathema to most Latinos. You wish to put it in economic terms, but you’re ignoring a huge swath of contrary data to do so.

  7. Frankly

    [i]Now tell us how Caucasians and Asians vote, please, and what their motives are. I can’t wait.[/i]

    I don’t have a clue what you point is about Caucasians, but Asians tend to be communitarians from their social, cultural and political experience. However, at the same time they value education. So, Asians as a block would vote Democrat from a social perspective, while knowing that the Democrat economic policy best serves them by keeping other minorities from becoming greater competition.

    This idiocy about the GOP being too white is asinine. There are no more racial barriers to being a Republican or conservative than there are becoming a Democrat or liberal. I do agree that the Christian focus of some GOPers is a turn off for a percentage of minorities, but this is a trumped up issue from the political left and the corrupt left-biased main media. There are far more fiscal conservatives than there are social conservatives. However, with respect to the individual value system that connects with fiscal conservatism… that is lost. It is lost in a sea of free crap being handed out by Democrats using debt and printed money.

    Asians don’t care because they are used to kicking ass in a screwed-up socialist regime. Their biggest fear is that Republicans take charge again and competition for individual prosperity heats up again.

  8. Don Shor

    [quote]Asians don’t care because they are used to kicking ass in a screwed-up socialist regime.[/quote]

    I don’t think you are accurate as to where the Asian immigrants to the US are coming from. More immigrants come to California from the Philippines (not socialist) than from China, and “China” broadly refers to PRC, Taiwan, and Hong Kong — only the first being socialist. India is a big source of ‘Asian’ immigrants, and India isn’t socialist.

  9. David M. Greenwald

    Frankly, all I see is a repackaging of the 47% argument in less palpable terms. If you guys really believe it, it’s going to be a few generations before Republicans can win again.

  10. Frankly

    Republicans are not going to have a chance until the Democrats keep building on their failures to adequately govern.

    The simple secret to voter behavior and governance in general, is that people pursue their own interests. The difference between left and right ideology is one of collectivism verses individualism, and short-term interests over long-term, sustainable interests. Collectivism sold by the issuance of IOUs funding short-term benefits that mascaraed as real progress will always end badly. It always has, and it always will. The restraint of ignoring the pull of instant gratification for achievement of the greater good is the essence of conservatism and a key in the principles that have made America exceptional.

    The best strategy for the GOP is to help Democrats more quickly destroy what they are always bent on destroying, while investing in replacement for the corrupt liberal-biased media and corrupt liberal-biased education system to start reversing the brain-washing that has occurred for decades that there is a free lunch and someone else should always have to pay for it.

    What you are advocating is for the Republicans to become more like Democrats to attract minorities to the Party. Then you can pay yourself on the back for feeling right and righteous and for winning some ideological war. Ain’t gonna’ happen. We will let you fail so then we can help others understand how significantly wrong leftist ideological thinking really is. Only then will we see more minorities gravitate toward the GOP.

    It is simple. If I spent all of my time telling my kids how easy life should be and how others should take care of their needs, and my wife netted out the tough love telling them they had to work hard, struggle and pay their won way… my kids would have liked me better… unless and until they grew up and recognized how wrong I had been and how right my wife had been.

  11. Frankly

    Romney’s 47% comment was interesting in that it actually offended enough people to make a difference. It is telling because the people offended would have had to see themselves as being justified in their being offended. The media, of course, didn’t get this.

    Say 47% won’t vote for a conservative because they want free stuff and it used to be that a majority of people would agree and not be offended because they never saw themselves as being entitled and hooked on free stuff. It was the response to Romney’s comment that was the news, not the comment itself. At that time it was clear that the US had changed to a majority moocher population. Democrats are giddy about this at our own peril.

  12. Don Shor

    The majority (60%) of Romney’s “moochers” are working. They don’t pay income tax because their income is too low. They still pay payroll taxes and sales taxes.
    The next group of Romney’s “moochers” are the elderly (22%) who don’t work because they are retired. They collect Social Security.
    The actual number of people who pay not income tax or payroll tax — because they are unemployed, not retired, not students, not disabled — is less than 10%.

    So most of his/your 47% don’t get “free stuff.” They pay for it, or paid for it. The United States is not a “majority moocher population.” Never has been, never will be. You and Romney and all your fellow Republicans just don’t get it.

    If Republicans want to have a chance at gaining an increase in the Latino vote (not a majority, just an increase), they need to stop fighting immigration reform and stop using immigration as a wedge issue.

  13. Frankly

    “Stop fighting immigration reform?”

    Don, it appears that you are swallowing Democrat talking points. I think you might need to start turning the channel from MSNBC and CNN.

    Bush’s immigration reform plan:
    [quote]1. A major new investment in border security, including doubling the Border Patrol by the end of 2008 and temporarily deploy 6000 National Guard troops
    2. The temporary worker program, which would include a tamper-proof identification card
    3. Stricter immigration enforcement at businesses, which would reduce exploitation and help slow demand for illegal workers
    4. Promote assimilation
    5. What to do with the approximately twelve million illegal immigrants in the country? [I outlined] a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant and a program of mass deportation.[/quote]
    Romney’s immigration plan:
    [quote]1. Grow Our Economy By Growing Legal Immigration
    Attract More Highly Skilled Immigrants
    2. Make The Temporary Worker Visa System Functional
    Secure Our Borders & Discourage Illegal Immigration
    3. Cut Red Tape That Is Keeping Immediate Families Apart
    4. Young illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States as children should have the chance to become permanent residents, and eventually citizens, by serving honorably in the United States military
    5. Recognize That Ending Illegal Immigration Is A Humanitarian Issue[/quote]
    Obama’s current immigration plan…
    [quote]1. Continue to strengthen border security.
    2. Crackdown on employers that hire undocumented workers.
    3. Create a path to earned citizenship.
    4. Streamline our legal immigration system.[/quote]
    So, Don. Explain this vast material difference in GOP and Democrat positions on immigration. You can’t. If is the effing free stuff. You know it, I know it. The media knows it. But the media and Democrat politicians keep up the propaganda that the GOP is anti-immigration reform. Bullshit. Just bullshit.

  14. David M. Greenwald

    A. Bush was to the left of most of his party on immigration issues
    B. The Republicans are not supporting Rubio’s proposal
    C. The vote on this issue will resonate more strongly than the immigration reform

  15. Frankly

    D. Senators are elected by their state, and Congress people by their districts. So, if immigration is the reason you and Don are claiming that minorities did not vote for Romney and voted for Obama, you don’t have a basis for it. The basis is moocher-ism and debt-funded free crap from the Democrats and RINOs. The immigration argument is just propaganda similar to Hitler blaming the Jews for being hostile to Germans. The difference here is that our “free” press is complicit in, or actively participating in this propaganda.

  16. David M. Greenwald

    I’m missing something here. How do we go from how we elect Senators and Congress people to your argument on immigration reform?

  17. Frankly

    Here is the GOP problem with the current immigration legislation. See Obama’s plan? Note the first item “Strengthen Border Security”? The problem with the Senate plan (note a Senate controlled by free-spending looter Democrats) is lacking adequate border security. It is also lacking in illegal immigration enforcement that would ensure criminals are dealt with adequately. It would make American less safe. The GOP is absolutely correct. You know it. The Democrats know it. But politics are more important here. Better to keep working with the left-based “news” media to continue to eff up the GOP brand so that the leftists get to retain their power.

    Doing the right thing. Naw. From your and Don’s perspective, the GOP should join in screwing the country to win a popularity contest.

    No thanks.

    Won’t happen.

    Better to help the Democrats screw it all up absolutely so we can get to reforms quicker.

  18. Don Shor

    [quote] I think you might need to start turning the channel from MSNBC and CNN. 

[/quote]
    I don’t watch either of those.
    [quote]Bush’s immigration reform plan: [/quote]
    Bush’s immigration reform plan wouldn’t get majority support from the Republicans in the House or Senate right now. I doubt it would even get more than a few votes from them. It was a good plan. Neither would the plan you list as Romney’s, but those weren’t his talking points anyway.

    [quote]So, Don. Explain this vast material difference in GOP and Democrat positions on immigration. You can’t.[/quote]
    What is the current position of most Republicans in the House and Senate on immigration?
    Republicans blocked the DREAM Act in 2010, even though it had majority support, by using the filibuster/cloture tactic. Again. All prominent Republicans except Rubio strongly oppose any path to citizenship.

    [quote] If is the effing free stuff. You know it, I know it.[/quote]
    I’ve already disproven the “free stuff” argument. Unless you think Social Security and Medicare are “free stuff.”

    [quote] But the media and Democrat politicians keep up the propaganda that the GOP is anti-immigration reform. Bulls**t. Just bulls**t.[/quote]
    The GOP is opposed to immigration reform, as evidenced by their continued refusal to allow immigration reform bills to come to the floor of the Senate or House, by their actions to de-fund DREAM Act, and by their rhetoric. They are obviously opposed to immigration reform.

  19. Growth Izzue

    So lets see if I’ve got this right. We now have an administration that’s prying into our phone records, following our Internet activity and using the IRS against groups that don’t fall in line with their political beliefs but think it’s too pervasive to ask voters for an I.D.

  20. Mr.Toad

    Free stuff? You mean like freedom. You are so far out there that you can expect to remain a super minority until you wake up. I saw a funny article about how if the Republicans in this state win a senate seat in a special election they will almost have enough votes to block a 2/3 vote in the state senate by the Democrats. Its gotten that bad. Let me tell you something its not about free stuff. Its about trying to deport somebody’s mom, dad, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, cousin or grandparent. You demonize and try to deport part of the family you are not getting the rest of the votes in that family.

    A funny thing happened when the Republicans lost the power to block the budget. According to a recent poll the CA legislature has a 35% approval rating. Sounds bad until you realized that under the old 2/3 rule it had an 11% approval rating.

    Right now the national GOP is making all the same mistakes the CA GOP made, demonizing immigrants, gerrymandering districts, blocking budgets and refusing any kind of tax increase. Eventually the dam will break and the national GOP will cease to be relevant. It might take a decade or more, but when it happens and the GOP dies like the Whigs, perhaps a new conservative party will be born but until people like Frankly get over their denial the only path for the GOP is down.

  21. Frankly

    [quote]In the past three decades, the number of Americans who are on disability has skyrocketed. The rise has come even as medical advances have allowed many more people to remain on the job, and new laws have banned workplace discrimination against the disabled. Every month, 14 million people now get a disability check from the government.[/quote]

    Also…

    [img]http://www.cscdc.org/miscjeff/nondefspend.jpg[/img]

    “Free stuff” is not just welfare and food stamps.

  22. Frankly

    Mr. Toad. Do you live alone and talk to yourself and spend 100% of your time browsing Huffington Post?

    The reason I ask is that you just seem to spew leftist media talking points. There is nothing in your last post that encourages any dialog. It is just a bunch of self-congratulatory grandstanding for your party winning a popularity contest.

    Yes, yes. The Democrats are more popular. Their leader does what he wants, and the media allows it. That is the benefit you get for giving away free stuff. People love you. Until you run out of other people’s money. That is what the GOP is focused on right now. Helping the Democrats along their path to spend everything. Only then can we begin to rebuild a country.

    Reading a book on T Roosevelt and WW-I. Interesting that during that time, even the Slavs were terrified of the socialists gaining power even as each country tried to destroy each other. In fact, it was the fear of socialism that was the catalyst for much of what drove each country to join in the war.

    But here we are lead by liberal Dems with a socialist bent, and a media and education system in love with the ways of Stalin, Mao and Marx.

    But again, these leftist, collectivist ideas are all bankrupt. They always fail. But it is a sickness that afflicts a percentage of the population that they think they are smarter than those that tried before and failed. That is what we have today… another attempt at the things that have failed and are failing around us because the elites in charge think they are the smartest yet. They are so smart that they don’t need to follow the same rules. They can lie, lie, lie. They can send the IRS and the FBI to harass and eavesdrop on American citizens of their choice. They can lie about the causes of terrorist acts for political benefits. They can do anything they want because they give away free stuff. It is similar to how the mafia and drug gangs work. Take out those that oppose you and get in your way, and pay off those that support you and help you win.

    Good for you Toad being so please with yourself and your Party.

  23. Frankly

    And note if you are a good liberal Democrat wanting to prop up your popularity as described in the Saul Alinsky handbook for socialist radicals, you would be wise to hide your payments for free stuff so that you can deny it.

    [quote]The federal government spends more money each year on cash payments for disabled former workers than it spends on food stamps and welfare combined. Yet people relying on disability payments are often overlooked in discussions of the social safety net. The vast majority of people on federal disability do not work.[1] Yet because they are not technically part of the labor force, they are not counted among the unemployed.[/quote]
    Note that last point. What a cool thing… put more workers on disability and you don’t have to count them in the unemployment numbers and welfare.

  24. jrberg

    I’m frankly amazed at how much time Mr. Frankly has to comment here. Does he have a job, or is he one of the ones collecting “free stuff?”

    I’m retired, and I don’t have that much time to spend lambasting people I disagree with. I’m involved in a lot of volunteer work, like helping out at the HS graduation this evening.

    Mr Frankly, have you considered giving back to your community?

  25. Frankly

    jrberg,

    This topic gets my goat.

    I don’t have time, I will be working later tonight. I tend to work 10 hour days and weekend days already. I will retire when I am dead. I like what I am doing for a living, but I have always worked much more than 40 hours per week. That is why I don’t have a problem spending some blogging time on important topics. Also, I type well over 100 words a minute… as you might be able to tell with my frequent spelling and grammar problems.

    I give back PLENTY to my community. My job is to help the state create jobs. In my opinion, and it is the reason I am in this business, it is one of the most valuable and important ways you can give back to your community.

    But the Democrats in this state and in Washington are doing everything they can to make it more difficult for a person to grow a business and hire employees.

  26. K.Smith

    [quote]But here we are lead by liberal Dems with a socialist bent, and a media and education system in love with the ways of Stalin, Mao and Marx.
    [/quote]

    Speaking of spewing talking points…

  27. Frankly

    Those are not media talking points, it is just my artful and sensitive prose.

    You do know that Obama was the most liberal Senator when he was one… that is when he was not just voting “present” all those times, right?

    Put a criminal in a suit and tie and he is still a criminal.

  28. Growth Izzue

    Frankly,

    there were 820/day new disability claimants under Bush and under Obama the number has jumped 19% to 975/day. Just like food stamps, extended unemployment, welfare and all the other social handout programs disability too has skyrocketed under Obama. Get as many on the take as possible to stay in power.

  29. jrberg

    [quote]
    I give back PLENTY to my community. My job is to help the state create jobs. In my opinion, and it is the reason I am in this business, it is one of the most valuable and important ways you can give back to your community.

    But the Democrats in this state and in Washington are doing everything they can to make it more difficult for a person to grow a business and hire employees. [/quote]

    Taking this at face value, it would be much more useful if you would first describe specifically HOW you are trying to create jobs (do you work for the state?), and secondly, what specific things are politicians doing that prevent you from doing that.

    Spewing venomous accusations using stale talking points (Marxism?? You gotta be kidding) does not help me or others, I assume, understand what your points are. If you’re going to take all this time out of your busy schedule to comment, you ought to try to do it rationally.

  30. Mr.Toad

    Frankly, i am insulted that you think I’m using someone else’s talking points. i haven’t seen my analysis of the improvement of the CA legislature from 11% to 35% being as a result of budget process reform anywhere. I challenge you to find it anywhere because I haven’t seen it even though I’ve been waiting for someone to make the argument. Have you seen it somewhere else? Was it on the Huffington Post?

  31. biddlin

    “The CA legislature is ruled by Democrats in a very Democrat populated state”
    That’s the system, GI . If you want to control the legislature, you have to win more seats Now the voters tried Neocon tea and after the emergency room visit, are less inclined to trust the duplicitous rascals who rob and rape the economy under the guise of National Security and Fiscal Austerity .

  32. Mr.Toad

    Yes 35% up from around 10 % when we got rid of the 2/3 rule ending the gridlock. My prediction is that just as CA tired of the gridlock the whole nation will tire of it and break it by sweeping away the obstructionists in the GOP.

  33. Growth Izzue

    [quote]“The CA legislature is ruled by Democrats in a very Democrat populated state”
    That’s the system, GI . If you want to control the legislature, you have to win more seats Now the voters tried Neocon tea and after the emergency room visit, are less inclined to trust the duplicitous rascals who rob and rape the economy under the guise of National Security and Fiscal Austerity . [/quote]

    As usual Biddlin, you missed the point.

  34. Growth Izzue

    [quote]Yes 35% up from around 10 % when we got rid of the 2/3 rule ending the gridlock. My prediction is that just as CA tired of the gridlock the whole nation will tire of it and break it by sweeping away the obstructionists in the GOP. [/quote]

    Amazing, Democrats have held a majority in the CA legislature for the last 15 years and somehow Democrats still always blame everything on the GOP.

  35. Don Shor

    Until last year, no budget could pass without at least one or two Republican votes, and they always blocked it. Maybe you’re new to the state and haven’t been following politics here.

  36. Frankly

    Ok Mr. Toad, I apologize for not giving you credit for that original bit of analysis.

    But…

    [i]Right now the national GOP is making all the same mistakes the CA GOP made, demonizing immigrants, gerrymandering districts, blocking budgets and refusing any kind of tax increase. Eventually the dam will break and the national GOP will cease to be relevant. It might take a decade or more…[/I]

    You lifted this right out of a MSNBC talking head monologue.

    Jberg, I work for a private company that provides loans to small business that want to expand and need space to do it. The typical business might start in a home bedroom or garage, and then lease space and then grow to the point that buying a building provides them economic benefits that allow them to grow and hire more people. The government drives the programs we use, but they are zero-subsidy programs. Meaning they don’t cost the tax-payers a dime. And until the financial crash and the lack of recovery due to the crappy economic policies of our state and Federal Democrat-controlled governments, the program was making money for the government.

    Guess what… the main Federal program we use is generally always at risk of being cut. The Democrats don’t make enough political capital out of it (too small), and the Republicans have reached a point where they don’t even care anymore since government has grown so large and is out of control.

    Tax increases and increased regulations are making it more difficult and less economically feasible for people to start and grow a business.

    Democrats win elections and as a result, this difficulty grows.

    Immigration is not the reason. It is the template that the left and the left media likes to use because it is divisive and they can foment racial conflict to exploit for political gain. The GOP has not changed with respect to immigration. The Democrats have changed in that they used to support the American working class and were critical of immigration that eroded job opportunities for Americans, but as liberals have taken over the Democrat party, they have done well to exploit the political opportunities that the large influx of poor and uneducated immigrants.

    The opportunity for the GOP is not to whore to immigrants like the Democrats do… the opportunity for the GOP is to go after labor. Because labor is better supported by a healthy economy and a reformed education system, and the Republicans are the best to deliver that. However, the Democrats keep a hold on labor like they do the poor with the entitlement drug. For labor it is that fat union paycheck and pension that keeps the dream alive.

    That is why the GOP needs to keep supplying “small government” messages while doing little to let the Democrats keep spending themselves into a union-busting hole. At some point we will reach the point where labor gets its collective head out of its ass and migrates to the party that gives them real hope for sustainable economic prosperity. At that point immigrants will also see the light (or be left in the sinking entitlements ship).

    How long will it take?

    The bigger question is can we survive the military challenges that will occur as we become weak from all the over-spending and cuts to defense to fund the entitlement give-away? If we can survive, then the Democrats will be defeated and maybe a new and stronger American will prevail.

  37. Growth Izzue

    [quote]Until last year, no budget could pass without at least one or two Republican votes, and they always blocked it. Maybe you’re new to the state and haven’t been following politics here. [/quote]

    So you would in turn blame the Democrats for all those years that Schwarzenegger tried to reign in the budget but had to deal with Democrat blockage. Maybe you’re new to the state or just are blind to anything that’s negative towards Democrats.

  38. Mr.Toad

    “You lifted this right out of a MSNBC talking head monologue.”

    Who did the monologue? Great minds think alike. Actually i don’t watch TV. Don’t have cable in the house. Once in a while i might watch a clip of something on the internet. The other day I watched Dobbs, Williams and Erickson lament how many women were the main bread winners and its impact on the children. Funny thing about the conservative media over at FOX they lament the takers and then condemn the makers too. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.

    Is MSNBC hiring? I must be a natural.

  39. Don Shor

    [quote]So you would in turn blame the Democrats for all those years that Schwarzenegger tried to reign in the budget but had to deal with Democrat blockage. Maybe you’re new to the state or just are blind to anything that’s negative towards Democrats.[/quote]

    Huh? Schwarzenegger and the Democratic legislative leadership passed one compromise budget after another, with very few Republican votes. Republicans who went along with those compromises were basically drummed out of the party. Just ask Maldonado. Schwarzenegger eventually became anathema to his own party.

  40. Mr.Toad

    Arnold was a Republican but could never get votes from his own party for a budget. The Reps in the legislature abused their power by not seeking compromise because they had safe gerrymandered seats so the voters took their power away. Now we see the same kind of thing playing out on the national level. Eventually it will result in the voters rejection of the obstructionists.

  41. Mr.Toad

    “Immigration is not the reason. It is the template that the left and the left media likes to use because it is divisive and they can foment racial conflict to exploit for political gain.”

    You mean like Willie Horton?

  42. JimmysDaughter

    Wow. I thought for a brief second that I was reading an Arizona newspaper letter to the editor section…comments on here are…sigh, I don’t even know where to start. Thank you to the farmworkers who drank dirty water and suffered horrible conditions to pick my broccoli. Thank you for not taking a 20 minute break every 2 hours like I was able to do. Thank you for not taking a 60 minute lunch. Thank you for loving my country so much that some of you died in trunks of cars, or in the triple digit Sonoran desert, trying to make a better life for yourself. Thank you for bussing my table & not getting any tips. Thank you for showing me how important it is to take care of your family back home. Thank you for trying to learn English, I used to teach English to a few of you through the Sacramento literacy program. You tried so hard! You smiled when you mispronounced a word & you smiled even when people got mad at you for not speaking English! Thank you for being a nanny for so many of my friends’ kids, and for cleaning their homes and my home, too. Thank you for saying thank you when I helped you at WIC. Thank you for understanding when I could not help you. I hope you found food for your kids, I really do.Thank you not criticizing other illegal immigrants who seem to get less flak than you do. Thank you.

  43. Frankly

    Oh JimmysDaugher, you are so emotional.

    Here is a look into this Republican’s view of Latinos. I’m sure not for everyone, but I am guessing I have much more interaction and relationships with Latinos than most of the white liberals in this town.

    From my young years living in Hollywood Florida will all my school mates of Cuban and South American ancestry. From my grade school years in small farming communities and working on ranches and farms. My later years working in the construction and food service industries. My long list of good friends and family members who are first, second and third-generation Latinos. The Latina girls that I dated growing up. My fine Latino neighbors. My family’s vacation residence for 25 years in Los Barriles Baja Mexico and all the great local Mexican friends we had and have.

    I have a handful of conservative friends and a handful of liberal friends. I count no more racism against Latinos in either group. In fact, I would say that I find my conservative friends more blind to any racial difference.

    This claim of GOP racism and anti-Latino angers me for a couple of reasons. First, I see more superficial intolerance radiating from my liberal friends than I do my conservative friends. My conservative friends though are much more intolerant of certain behaviors. Baggy pants, tattoos, cigarettes, gang-gestures, people waving flags of their county in our country, etc. They are also intolerant of people that break the law… no matter what socio-economic class. They expect everyone to work hard, play by the rules (one of Obama’s favorite lines as he breaks all the rules and encourages we allow those that vote for him to be given a special pass from the rules), and stop mooching.

    The issue on immigration is not Latino, it is lawlessness and spending. It would not matter if Mexico was some 90% Caucasian Eastern European country… if that country was dumping millions of poor and uneducated of their people on us to help cover their social welfare obligations, the GOP voters would be just as anti-immigration.

    So, the “Latino” thing is false. It is just a trumped-up, fake, emotive bit of left media-enflamed political propaganda for the Democrats to harvest votes.

    And, to my Latino friends that are buying off on this crap. Be careful. You are being used and exploited by the very people you think are your friends. They really don’t want you to live next to them. They really do not want you to come to their cocktail parties of high-educated, public-sector wealthy guest. They complain about the high cost and crappy state of education, but they do not support the reforms that would help you get a better education. They reject assimilation demands even though this would help you and your children be more successful in business and life in the US. They really do NOT care about you as much as they do winning elections and keeping power.

    Be careful of the friends you think you have.

    Meanwhile, folks on the GOP-side are more than happy to show you the way to a great American life in the style of American exceptional-ism that attracted you and your ancestors here in the first place.

    Some of you may be feeling political powerful for the first time and view the Democrats as your best ally in leveraging the demographic changes you are part of. Nothing could be farther from reality. Just look at the state of blacks in this country for an example. They too have bought the lie and are consistently left in the dust by their affiliation with the left. Your liberal Democrat friends really like it this way because it provides them the perpetual votes on socially and economically insecure victims. They want you to stay there too. They know if you are able to rise up to the true middle class, you will see the truth and will reject their leftist ideology for the failure it is.

  44. J.R.

    I think that Latinos will join other ethnic groups in rejecting the political corruption that is being demonstrated every day now in the Democratic party.

    Immigrants to this country did not risk and sacrifice so much for the purpose or recreating the socialist corruption of the Central American countries.

    It will take many years for the democratic party to recover from its use of the IRS to harass political opponents, from its support of massive spying on the press and on all Americans, and from the inept cover up currently under way.

  45. Growth Izzue

    J.R.
    [quote]It will take many years for the democratic party to recover from its use of the IRS to harass political opponents[/quote]

    I just watched a TV show where they had about 25 of the leaders of some of the different orginizations that were targeted by the IRS. Their stories were incredible. It’s hard to believe that something like what they’re going through can actually happen in this country. It was basically tyrrany. Whether you’re conservative, liberal, GOP or Democrat everyone should stand up and demand that Congress get to the bottom of where this originated and the parties involved instituting it. If you’re an American you should care deeply about this.

  46. Don Shor

    If the Republicans want to win the White House, retain the House, and regain the Senate, they will move toward the middle on social issues, including immigration. As long as they are dominated by the Tea Party base, that won’t happen. The Tea Party is livid about the immigration compromise being discussed (just check out the blogs at Tea Party Nation if you want a taste of it). They will primary candidates who support ‘amnesty’ and they might prevail in those primary challenges. If that continues, the Republicans will just continue to be a protest party and will slip for at least a couple more election cycles.
    Candidates from New England, the mid-Atlantic, and the West Coast will see the problem and try — with limited success — to straddle the Republican base. The Republican electorate is out of step with the views of the majority of Americans on those issues, and it will affect their strength in national elections for quite awhile. Their political consultants know it. Anyone who can read a demographic survey knows it. Their party will be a bunch of old, white, intolerant religious people who will win elections in the South and in Utah.

    [quote]It will take many years for the democratic party to recover from its use of the IRS to harass political opponents, from its support of massive spying on the press and on all Americans, and from the inept cover up currently under way.[/quote]
    I think you are completely wrong about the public’s interst in, and attitudes about, these issues.

  47. Don Shor

    [quote]Whether you’re conservative, liberal, GOP or Democrat everyone should stand up and demand that Congress get to the bottom of where this originated and the parties involved instituting it.[/quote]
    I agree. Probably a special prosecutor is merited. Congressional committees aren’t likely to be effective in getting answers.

  48. jimt

    Good to see Frankly helping to keep the debate going!

    In my view; Republicans have always supported illegal immigration (as per their big-business sponsors–wasn’t the first big amnesty program in the 1980s signed off by Reagan administration?); but have found it politically advantageous to give lip service to restraining illegal immigration, to appease the GOP voters, who mainly have wanted to curtail illegal immigration. Interesting that now the equation is shifted; there is a large enough hispanic population that the potential loss of votes from traditional GOP voters is more than balanced by the potential increase in votes from Hispanics. So politically, it appears that we are beyond the point of no return with regard to immigration–open the floodgates!

    Note that neither party will address the simple economic facts that immigrants, both legal and illegal, compete with Americans for jobs; resulting in (a) increased numbers and % of unemployed (b) lower wages; not only for blue-collar work (illegal immigrants) but white-collar work (legal immigrants from Asia and Europe).

    In the mid-1990s while I was working as an engineer in industry; my boss went to visit a sister company in Germany–when he came back; he told me that a German engineer with my level of education and experience was paid a salary of ~$80,000/yr; while my job income was ~$50,000/yr. Unlike the USA, Germany did not import large numbers of engineering students or trained engineers. Yet somehow; despite such higher salaries for engineers in Germany; German products and engineering services have been and remain competitive in the world market.

  49. wdf1

    Frankly: [i]There is no easy way to sell a conservative viewpoint and mindset sitting next to an opponent that hands out free stuff…[/i]

    It’s too bad that Walmart can’t find employees who aren’t “moochers”.
    [quote]Walmart wages are so low that many of its workers rely on food stamps and other government aid programs to fulfill their basic needs, a reality that could cost taxpayers as much as $900,000 at just one Walmart Supercenter in Wisconsin, according to a study released by Congressional Democrats on Thursday.

    Source ([url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/walmart-taxpayers-house-report_n_3365814.html[/url])[/quote]

  50. jimt

    I think Frankly has a number of good points (I fall somewhere in the middle between Frankly’s views and the more leftist views on this forum); however I strongly disagree with Frankly’s assessment of poor people on government assistance as “moochers”.
    Although there is no doubt that there are in fact a significant proportion of moochers among the jobless; I would contend that the amount of crooks, cheaters, and (er) ‘compromisers’ and other unscrupulous opportunists make up about the same percentage of the very rich. Most people, both rich and poor, do contribute something of value to society in return for their pay (or strive to get a job to do so if poor & unemployed). The unemployment rate is high; most of these unemployed people can’t find jobs; particularly if they have low skills–there are simply more people than there are jobs available. There is plenty of evidence in the flood of applications for each of most job openings; even low-wage jobs. In many cases, only one from among the flood of applicants is hired. Big business loves keeping the unemployment rate high because it keeps wages low; thus open the floodgates further for immigration!

  51. Frankly

    [i]Walmart wages are so low that many of its workers rely on food stamps and other government aid programs to fulfill their basic needs[/i]

    wdf1, If these workers did not have access to food stamps and other government programs, Walmart would not be able to attract enough workers at current wages.

    And, minimum wage jobs are not intended to provide a living for a family. They are entry-level wages, and wages for family-members contributing to the aggregate income provided by additional family members. That fact that we have people trying to support a family on low-end Walmart wages is not Walmart’s problems. Frankly, it is your problem.

    I think the fact that you lambast private companies for paying wages you claim as too low, while also demanding we fund and increase social welfare and protect the education system status quo is indication of you being stuck in an ideological mindset that circular and problematic without remedy.

    Again, it illustrates the absurdity of current left politics, but also how difficult it is for ideas of the right to compete. You get to say how much you care for that little guy being paid low wages. And, how you want to protect and increase his social welfare benefits because his family needs it. And how you want more money to be given to the school system so the poor neighborhoods that he lives in won’t have as many school services cut. Meanwhile, there is really nothing you are protecting, supporting or advocating that really improves the economic situation of this guy and his family. He will be forever stuck with your program.

    The ideas of the GOP present a longer-term target of economic improvement that moves the immigrant voter higher up Maslow’s ladder. The Alinsky liberal playbook, and all playbooks in the collectivism game, rely on keeping more people down at the lower levels of the hierarchy of needs. People at the bottom need “saving”. Liberals love to save people. Collectivists love to control people. So, by keeping people down at the bottom they secure a co-depended relationship that serves them well personally and politically.

    The ideas of the GOP are to shrink government and government entitlements, focus more on growing the private economy, reform education so that we crank out many more skilled and capable job seekers in the labor force. The GOP wants to move more people up the hierarchy of needs to the self-reliant and self-actualized rung. But doing that would mean more of those people vote Republican… hence the blocking from Democrats.

    With respect to immigration, the GOP simply wants the laws to be upheld and to prevent negative economic consequences at a time when the Democrats have spent the state and nation so far into a financial hole that they keep taking more out the pockets of a shrinking pool of hard-working Americans to cover essential services… and in the process shrinking the pool of available discretionary money that would otherwise be pumped back into the private economy.

    The Democrat’s position on immigration lacks honesty and integrity because the United States no longer has the funds to support our past open-arms principles. The Democrats are frankly lying to the public. They are again accumulating more debt that our children will have to cover only to benefit themselves politically. The GOP position on immigration is completely righteous, practical, honest, and responsible. It is a factual and principled position that a past media and press would have more honestly reported on.

    But again, with a complicit and supportive liberal-biased media, the Democrats can ride in on that white horse to save and care for all the poor and uneducated immigrants they helped to flood the country with from their shoddy immigration policies and lack of enforcement of the laws on the books. They can lie that we can afford it. They can lie that the GOP’s stance on immigration is based on racism and anti-immigrant sentiments. Democrats can just keep increasing our welfare entitlement state while screwing the private economy and protecting a crappy status quo education system. Meanwhile a growing population of immigrants will be stuck on the bottom rungs of their needs ladder. This suits a good politically-active Democrat just fine, but not a Republican.

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