Commentary: A Bagless Week in Davis

plastic-bag-putahA little over a year ago, I went on a late night run for snacks and drinks in San Luis Obispo. When we got to the part about whether I wanted a bag, I was about to say yes when the cashier noted it was a ten-cent charge for a paper bag. I hesitated and decided to carry four drinks and snacks loose across the street.

It wasn’t a very good idea, but it did prompt the friendly cashier to note that most people are not willing to pay the ten cents for a paper bag, even though it is only ten cents.

So last week, as I stopped at Safeway to get my lunch, there was a line of people in front of me. None of them brought reusable bags. No one was willing to pay the ten cents for the paper bag. Interesting group behavior.

Over the course of the week, people’s behavior has changed somewhat. I have seen more reusable bags. I have seen people who have brought their old plastic bags for reuse – although clearly that is not a strategy that will last long. The ones I have seen are increasingly in bad shape.

At some point I’m sure I will purchase some reusable bags and actually place them where I can use them. However in the shorter term, it is remarkable how little the bag ban has impacted things, at least on my end. I have so far used just one paper bag and have probably saved using ten plastic bags that I really didn’t need.

Somehow 110 other communities have managed ways to deal without single-use carryout bags. Yes, there are secondary uses for some of these bags, but the number of people using grocery bags to carry dog poop is probably small compared to the number of grocery bags overall. There are alternatives, ranging from the re-use of other types of plastic bags to smaller and lighter weight biodegradable doggy bags.

We are not banning all bags, either. We have only banned one type – the single-use carryout bag. Contrary to attempts at humor, there is no law against people using these bags, in fact the city has put out messages on creative re-use of these bags. What is not permitted are merchants in Davis dispensing them.

So why the single-use plastic bag rather than a blanket ban on plastic bags in general? The city of Davis studied the issue and found that, by banning the single-use carryout bag, they could reduce overall plastic bag use by 90%.

Moreover, the city did a survey of five hundred shoppers at six large grocery stores in August 2012. What they found was interesting. “On average, 49.5% of carryout bags used were single use plastic, 20% were paper, 17.2% were reusable bags and 13.3% opted not to use bags.”

A similar survey in Los Angeles county found that 96% of transactions used plastic carryout bags.

In other words, the survey showed that Davis residents already use single-use carryout plastic bags at rates far lower than other jurisdictions and therefore the impact of the ordinance on the typical consumer would be far less.

However, do not let that persuade you that the ordinance was not necessary. The study found, “The use of single use carryout bags (plastic, paper, and biodegradable) has identified negative environmental impacts, including GHG emissions, litter, water consumption, solid waste generation and effects on wildlife. Despite their lightweight and compact characteristics, plastic bags disproportionately impact the solid waste and recycling stream and persist in the environment even after they have broken down.”

The study added, “Even when plastic bags are disposed of properly, they often become litter due to their aerodynamic nature. The bags can be blown out of landfills by the wind and can easily be blown from garbage sources within the City prior to collection. Plastic litter not only causes visual blight, but can potentially harm wildlife.”

Bottom line is that the city was able to implement a 90 percent plastic bag reduction through this ordinance. That means, yes, go ahead and use other plastic bags if you must to do things such as dispose of dog waste or baby waste. Use your plastic bag liners for your garbage. The idea here is that the use of grocery bags dwarfs all other uses for plastic bags and, even if there is some offset, we are achieving an overall waste reduction.

At some point I’m sure I will pony up for some reusable bags. I chuckle with humor at people who are concerned about their widespread use. My folks in San Luis Obispo have been using them for years. It’s not that difficult to care for them – throw them in with the rest of your wash every so often.

In the meantime, a dime here or there is a small cost to be reminded that paper and resources are not free. Now, if we could just get rid of the unnecessary product packaging, we could really reduce our waste.

—David M. Greenwald reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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180 Comments

  1. Tia Will

    Two thoughts
    1) Thanks for mentioning unnecessary packaging. This is probably an even greater environmental impact than plastic bags albeit harder to quantify due to the wider variety of materials involved from various forms of plastic to paper to cardboard. My recommendation would be to buy as much as possible in bulk.
    2) When choosing to carry items out in your hand rather than a bag, remember to keep the receipt until you have gotten out of the store unchallenged. Recently at a store in Hawaii one of our group was confronted by store security challenging her purchase of sunglasses. Luckily my son still had the receipt in his hand. Nevertheless it was a little embarrassing and a lot annoying.

    1. South of Davis

      Tia wrote:

      > Thanks for mentioning unnecessary packaging. This is probably an even
      > greater environmental impact than plastic bags albeit harder to quantify

      Who get’s to decide what is “unnecessary” packaging? I have noticed that many “green” people in town have (in my opinion) lots of “unnecessary” clothing. I’ve made it 50 years without a single pair of Birkenstocks or a tie dye shirt yet quite a few people in town (often the ones who want to ban “unnecessary” packaging, plastic bags and fireplaces) have MULTIPLE pairs of Birkenstocks (and/or Crocks) and sometimes DOZENS of tie dye shirts (and despite saying they support recycling they have not recycled that Dead at the Cow Palace in 1978 shirt)…

      P.S. When I was waling out of Nugget last week (after hearing a lot of complaining) I was chatting with a guy who said this reminds him of living in the south where the “right wingers” were in charge and they were able to push through something they liked to piss off everyone else when every meeting, and sporting event started with a prayer…

      1. D.D.

        I tie dyed my plain white tee shirt when I got a stain on it.
        I don’t wear Birkenstocks. I like Clarkes better…
        I have tons of clothes that I purchased from Right and Relevant and the YSPCA Thrift Store.
        Why does it bug you so very much that we are trying to get people to stop using plastic, which ends up in our oceans? I recommend Ted Danson’s book, Oceana, to you.

      2. Tia Will

        South of Davis

        “and despite saying they support recycling they have not recycled that Dead at the Cow Palace in 1978 shirt)…”

        It seems to me that anyone ( myself included) who is still using clothing that dates back to the 70’s is doing better than “recycling” since they are still using the initial item themselves. I don’t think that I have any garment older than 25 years that I still wear, but I do have some from the 80’s and when they don’t fit, then I donate them or cut them up for use as rags if they are wearing out.
        I took my mother literally when she said “waste not want not”.
        I really cannot see how you can criticize continuous first owner usage.

    2. Rich RifkinWDE 73

      “Recently at a store in Hawaii one of our group was confronted by store security challenging her purchase of sunglasses.”

      Since the bagophobes like to claim that plastic bags are made of petroleum–even though grocery bags are in fact made of polyethylene, which itself is a waste by-product of natural gas refining–I wonder how many bags one would have to use in order to equal the amount of marginal petroleum was burned per passenger on Tia’s round-trip flight to Hawaii?

      My guess–not really sure how to do the math on this one–is that single round-trip excursion burned more petroleum per passenger than was consumed manufacturing all the plastic grocery bags used by every person in Davis in the last 10 years. Even if my guess is close, I don’t expect reality to trump the senseless, faceless, mindless and extremist ideology driving the bag ban.

      1. South of Davis

        Rich wrote:

        > My guess–not really sure how to do the math on this one–is that
        > single round-trip excursion burned more petroleum per passenger
        > than was consumed manufacturing all the plastic grocery bags

        Don’t forget that Al Gore probably burns more energy at his 10,000 sf + TN mansion then it would take to make free bags for Davis residents forever (the energy he uses at his VA mansion, CA mansion or SF luxury condo could probably make bags for most of N. Cal).

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/photos-al-goree-new-8875_n_579286.html#s91252

      2. Barack Palin

        Don’t waste your breath Rich, the bagophobes will just say that jet fumes don’t end up hanging from a tree or a fence on Highway 80. They always have their strawman arguments.

        1. Tia Will

          BP

          No we won’t. See direct response to Rich.
          I fully accept that I am not perfect. But I do not make up excuses for what I do.
          I am well aware that airline travel is destructive. So are cars, but I haven’t managed to give my hybrid up either.
          I do believe that small steps are better than no steps.

          1. Barack Palin

            So you won’t give up flying because you still want to travel but feel it’s okay to advocate that others give up things they might like or use in their lives out of convenience? A word for that comes to mind.

      3. Tia Will

        Rich,

        I agree with you but haven’t quite given up on airline travel though I know it would be better.
        Tar me for the hypocrite I am. I accept that. But I will also do what I can where I can and not pretend that small changes cannot make a difference.

        1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

          Tia, never mind that you are not making a small step forward for anything by not using plastic grocery bags. Of course, if that is your preference, even if it is mindless, it should be your right to choose. Alas, a tyrannical group of idiots has imposed this choice on everyone else.

          On the other hand, if you drive or you boat or you fly in an airplane which uses petrol, you are (I think admittedly) making a step backward (in terms of polluting our atmosphere with CO2).

          I don’t fault you for your latter moves. You should live your life as you see fit. Just don’t get up on your high horse and tell others you are doing your part–when you are not.

          1. Tia Will

            Rich

            I believe that I just said that I agree with you on the issue of the use of airplanes. I am not sure why the need to reiterate. However, I do not
            agree with you about the use of plastics. I do believe that if we can minimize the use of plastics it will be helpful in the long run. I certainly was not “up on my high horse”. I will stand my ground in favor of us each contributing in ways that we can. If one rides their bike even one day of the week, is that not better than driving every day ?
            It is not perfect, but again small steps can make a difference cumulatively. I am really unsure about why you find the need to make this personal.

          2. tribeUSA

            Rich–you’re sounding a little harsh on Tia!
            I fully agree with Tia that small steps are better than no steps; and each person will have a different mix of what steps to take that will help out.

            Not sure how I personally feel about the plastic bag ban yet. Have forgotton to bring plastic bags to store a couple of times; but didn’t mind paying 10 cents for a paper bag (I use a couple paper bags per week as my under-the-sink trash bag).

            Yes, this is a Davis experiment. I would also support measures to increase the frog population in Davis

        2. South of Davis

          Tia:

          Small steps are great, but who get’s to pick the small steps that we force on others?

          Many of my friends don’t fly, should they be able to stop you (and other bag banners) from taking the “small step” and not flying if you can stop them from getting bags at the store?

  2. Tia Will

    Two thoughts
    1) Thanks for mentioning unnecessary packaging. This is probably an even greater environmental impact than plastic bags albeit harder to quantify due to the wider variety of materials involved from various forms of plastic to paper to cardboard. My recommendation would be to buy as much as possible in bulk.
    2) When choosing to carry items out in your hand rather than a bag, remember to keep the receipt until you have gotten out of the store unchallenged. Recently at a store in Hawaii one of our group was confronted by store security challenging her purchase of sunglasses. Luckily my son still had the receipt in his hand. Nevertheless it was a little embarrassing and a lot annoying.

    1. South of Davis

      Tia wrote:

      > Thanks for mentioning unnecessary packaging. This is probably an even
      > greater environmental impact than plastic bags albeit harder to quantify

      Who get’s to decide what is “unnecessary” packaging? I have noticed that many “green” people in town have (in my opinion) lots of “unnecessary” clothing. I’ve made it 50 years without a single pair of Birkenstocks or a tie dye shirt yet quite a few people in town (often the ones who want to ban “unnecessary” packaging, plastic bags and fireplaces) have MULTIPLE pairs of Birkenstocks (and/or Crocks) and sometimes DOZENS of tie dye shirts (and despite saying they support recycling they have not recycled that Dead at the Cow Palace in 1978 shirt)…

      P.S. When I was waling out of Nugget last week (after hearing a lot of complaining) I was chatting with a guy who said this reminds him of living in the south where the “right wingers” were in charge and they were able to push through something they liked to piss off everyone else when every meeting, and sporting event started with a prayer…

      1. D.D.

        I tie dyed my plain white tee shirt when I got a stain on it.
        I don’t wear Birkenstocks. I like Clarkes better…
        I have tons of clothes that I purchased from Right and Relevant and the YSPCA Thrift Store.
        Why does it bug you so very much that we are trying to get people to stop using plastic, which ends up in our oceans? I recommend Ted Danson’s book, Oceana, to you.

      2. Tia Will

        South of Davis

        “and despite saying they support recycling they have not recycled that Dead at the Cow Palace in 1978 shirt)…”

        It seems to me that anyone ( myself included) who is still using clothing that dates back to the 70’s is doing better than “recycling” since they are still using the initial item themselves. I don’t think that I have any garment older than 25 years that I still wear, but I do have some from the 80’s and when they don’t fit, then I donate them or cut them up for use as rags if they are wearing out.
        I took my mother literally when she said “waste not want not”.
        I really cannot see how you can criticize continuous first owner usage.

    2. Rich RifkinWDE 73

      “Recently at a store in Hawaii one of our group was confronted by store security challenging her purchase of sunglasses.”

      Since the bagophobes like to claim that plastic bags are made of petroleum–even though grocery bags are in fact made of polyethylene, which itself is a waste by-product of natural gas refining–I wonder how many bags one would have to use in order to equal the amount of marginal petroleum was burned per passenger on Tia’s round-trip flight to Hawaii?

      My guess–not really sure how to do the math on this one–is that single round-trip excursion burned more petroleum per passenger than was consumed manufacturing all the plastic grocery bags used by every person in Davis in the last 10 years. Even if my guess is close, I don’t expect reality to trump the senseless, faceless, mindless and extremist ideology driving the bag ban.

      1. South of Davis

        Rich wrote:

        > My guess–not really sure how to do the math on this one–is that
        > single round-trip excursion burned more petroleum per passenger
        > than was consumed manufacturing all the plastic grocery bags

        Don’t forget that Al Gore probably burns more energy at his 10,000 sf + TN mansion then it would take to make free bags for Davis residents forever (the energy he uses at his VA mansion, CA mansion or SF luxury condo could probably make bags for most of N. Cal).

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/photos-al-goree-new-8875_n_579286.html#s91252

      2. Barack Palin

        Don’t waste your breath Rich, the bagophobes will just say that jet fumes don’t end up hanging from a tree or a fence on Highway 80. They always have their strawman arguments.

        1. Tia Will

          BP

          No we won’t. See direct response to Rich.
          I fully accept that I am not perfect. But I do not make up excuses for what I do.
          I am well aware that airline travel is destructive. So are cars, but I haven’t managed to give my hybrid up either.
          I do believe that small steps are better than no steps.

          1. Barack Palin

            So you won’t give up flying because you still want to travel but feel it’s okay to advocate that others give up things they might like or use in their lives out of convenience? A word for that comes to mind.

      3. Tia Will

        Rich,

        I agree with you but haven’t quite given up on airline travel though I know it would be better.
        Tar me for the hypocrite I am. I accept that. But I will also do what I can where I can and not pretend that small changes cannot make a difference.

        1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

          Tia, never mind that you are not making a small step forward for anything by not using plastic grocery bags. Of course, if that is your preference, even if it is mindless, it should be your right to choose. Alas, a tyrannical group of idiots has imposed this choice on everyone else.

          On the other hand, if you drive or you boat or you fly in an airplane which uses petrol, you are (I think admittedly) making a step backward (in terms of polluting our atmosphere with CO2).

          I don’t fault you for your latter moves. You should live your life as you see fit. Just don’t get up on your high horse and tell others you are doing your part–when you are not.

          1. Tia Will

            Rich

            I believe that I just said that I agree with you on the issue of the use of airplanes. I am not sure why the need to reiterate. However, I do not
            agree with you about the use of plastics. I do believe that if we can minimize the use of plastics it will be helpful in the long run. I certainly was not “up on my high horse”. I will stand my ground in favor of us each contributing in ways that we can. If one rides their bike even one day of the week, is that not better than driving every day ?
            It is not perfect, but again small steps can make a difference cumulatively. I am really unsure about why you find the need to make this personal.

          2. tribeUSA

            Rich–you’re sounding a little harsh on Tia!
            I fully agree with Tia that small steps are better than no steps; and each person will have a different mix of what steps to take that will help out.

            Not sure how I personally feel about the plastic bag ban yet. Have forgotton to bring plastic bags to store a couple of times; but didn’t mind paying 10 cents for a paper bag (I use a couple paper bags per week as my under-the-sink trash bag).

            Yes, this is a Davis experiment. I would also support measures to increase the frog population in Davis

        2. South of Davis

          Tia:

          Small steps are great, but who get’s to pick the small steps that we force on others?

          Many of my friends don’t fly, should they be able to stop you (and other bag banners) from taking the “small step” and not flying if you can stop them from getting bags at the store?

  3. Barack Palin

    Yes it has been interesting watching people fumble their groceries out the door while cussing about the f’in People’s Republic of Davis.

    1. Davis Progressive

      i have yet to see anyone fumble their groceries and cuss. it would seem strange that 110 communities can pass the same policy and yet we would blame it on the people’s republic of davis. are you sure you aren’t projecting? i have used re-usable carry out bags for years with no problem.

      1. South of Davis

        DP wrote:

        > I have yet to see anyone fumble their groceries and cuss

        You must have someone shop for you…

        Even on the Peninsula where the ban has been in place for a while and in Truckee I have never been to the store when I didn’t here a single person complaining about the bag ban…

          1. Barack Palin

            What people, do you mean the environmental zealots who feel feel they have to have control over other people’s way of life?

          2. Dorte Jensen

            Yes, I think that people who support the bag ban want to impose their views on others, which is not ideal in a free society. In my Vanguard post of June 30, I discussed this issue in broad and specific terms:

            “I learned in psychology class that humans respond to rewards and punishments but learn better with the former than with the latter. With this in mind, consider what will happen to me at a Davis grocery store after July 1:

            I will want my purchases put into a plastic bag (since I reuse them, as explained before). These bags have been banned (punishment), but a paper bag is available for 10 cents (punishment), or I can use my own bag (neither reward nor punishment).

            Contrast this with what could have happened after July 1:

            I could choose from a plastic bag for 10 cents (punishment), a paper bag for 5 cents (punishment), or using my own bag for a credit of 5 cents (reward).”

            In other words, the second approach would have used incentives and disincentives to achieve the same (or a similar) result while respecting my (and other people’s) freedom of choice. Why was this approach not considered or tried?

            In a follow-up post, I drew attention to what the bag ban is really about–molding behavior–and provided a link to operant conditioning, which is the science of reward (reinforcement) and punishment. The link is below, in case anyone is interested:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

            In other words, the bag ban makes me feel that its supporters regard me as less than human, as a laboratory animal to be modified at (their) will. I am a human being and demand to be treated as such. I may have lost on this particular issue, but I will continue to advocate for the overall principle, which is freedom of choice.

          3. South of Davis

            Dorte wrote:

            > I learned in psychology class that humans respond to rewards
            > and punishments but learn better with the former than with
            > the latter.

            I learned in psychology class that some people get pleasure out of punishing others (some join the Army and get a job at abu ghraib while others get involved with city politics).

            The people that say “F you no bag for you in our town” are just like the people who say “F you no wedding for you in our town” except they voted for a different guy for president.

        1. Tia Will

          South of Davis

          “Yes it has been interesting watching people fumble their groceries out the door while cussing about the f’in People’s Republic of Davis.”

          I guess this supports the aphorism that we “see what we want to see”
          It has been interesting to me to watch people’s relative indifference to the minimal inconvenience of carrying their purchases in their hands or saying “ok, that’s fine”
          when informed of the 10 cent fee for a paper bag.

          My partner and I found this a cause for playful banter when we discovered that we had taken the car that the shopping bags were not in. He said we would have to pay the dime. I said that we could carry our purchases in our hands. He tossed me a dime to compensate. Wow, what an onerous burden !

          1. South of Davis

            Tia wrote:

            > My partner and I found this a cause for playful banter when
            > we discovered that we had taken the car that the shopping
            > bags were not in. He said

            This is the first time I’ve noticed that Tia called her “partner” a “he”…

            Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I assumed that Tia had “given up on men” every time she referred to her “partner”…

    2. D.D.

      In the Netherlands the store clerks offer old cardboard boxes to people who don’t bring cloth bags to their store. Here’s an easy, affordable way to make a cloth bag. Take an old pair of jeans, like Levi’s. Cut off the legs. Sew a seam across there. Cut two handles out of the legs of the jeans and sew them to the top. Or just save all your Pottery Barn Bags, if you shop there. Or your Macys Bags. Or your Chick Fillet carry out bags….
      Most large retailers give out very sturdy cloth or paper bags with purchases. Nordstrom bags are very sturdy. I think American Apparel give out cloth bags now. The solutions are endless.
      It’s really, really not that big a deal. Promise.

  4. Barack Palin

    Yes it has been interesting watching people fumble their groceries out the door while cussing about the f’in People’s Republic of Davis.

    1. Davis Progressive

      i have yet to see anyone fumble their groceries and cuss. it would seem strange that 110 communities can pass the same policy and yet we would blame it on the people’s republic of davis. are you sure you aren’t projecting? i have used re-usable carry out bags for years with no problem.

      1. South of Davis

        DP wrote:

        > I have yet to see anyone fumble their groceries and cuss

        You must have someone shop for you…

        Even on the Peninsula where the ban has been in place for a while and in Truckee I have never been to the store when I didn’t here a single person complaining about the bag ban…

          1. Barack Palin

            What people, do you mean the environmental zealots who feel feel they have to have control over other people’s way of life?

          2. Dorte Jensen

            Yes, I think that people who support the bag ban want to impose their views on others, which is not ideal in a free society. In my Vanguard post of June 30, I discussed this issue in broad and specific terms:

            “I learned in psychology class that humans respond to rewards and punishments but learn better with the former than with the latter. With this in mind, consider what will happen to me at a Davis grocery store after July 1:

            I will want my purchases put into a plastic bag (since I reuse them, as explained before). These bags have been banned (punishment), but a paper bag is available for 10 cents (punishment), or I can use my own bag (neither reward nor punishment).

            Contrast this with what could have happened after July 1:

            I could choose from a plastic bag for 10 cents (punishment), a paper bag for 5 cents (punishment), or using my own bag for a credit of 5 cents (reward).”

            In other words, the second approach would have used incentives and disincentives to achieve the same (or a similar) result while respecting my (and other people’s) freedom of choice. Why was this approach not considered or tried?

            In a follow-up post, I drew attention to what the bag ban is really about–molding behavior–and provided a link to operant conditioning, which is the science of reward (reinforcement) and punishment. The link is below, in case anyone is interested:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

            In other words, the bag ban makes me feel that its supporters regard me as less than human, as a laboratory animal to be modified at (their) will. I am a human being and demand to be treated as such. I may have lost on this particular issue, but I will continue to advocate for the overall principle, which is freedom of choice.

          3. South of Davis

            Dorte wrote:

            > I learned in psychology class that humans respond to rewards
            > and punishments but learn better with the former than with
            > the latter.

            I learned in psychology class that some people get pleasure out of punishing others (some join the Army and get a job at abu ghraib while others get involved with city politics).

            The people that say “F you no bag for you in our town” are just like the people who say “F you no wedding for you in our town” except they voted for a different guy for president.

        1. Tia Will

          South of Davis

          “Yes it has been interesting watching people fumble their groceries out the door while cussing about the f’in People’s Republic of Davis.”

          I guess this supports the aphorism that we “see what we want to see”
          It has been interesting to me to watch people’s relative indifference to the minimal inconvenience of carrying their purchases in their hands or saying “ok, that’s fine”
          when informed of the 10 cent fee for a paper bag.

          My partner and I found this a cause for playful banter when we discovered that we had taken the car that the shopping bags were not in. He said we would have to pay the dime. I said that we could carry our purchases in our hands. He tossed me a dime to compensate. Wow, what an onerous burden !

          1. South of Davis

            Tia wrote:

            > My partner and I found this a cause for playful banter when
            > we discovered that we had taken the car that the shopping
            > bags were not in. He said

            This is the first time I’ve noticed that Tia called her “partner” a “he”…

            Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I assumed that Tia had “given up on men” every time she referred to her “partner”…

    2. D.D.

      In the Netherlands the store clerks offer old cardboard boxes to people who don’t bring cloth bags to their store. Here’s an easy, affordable way to make a cloth bag. Take an old pair of jeans, like Levi’s. Cut off the legs. Sew a seam across there. Cut two handles out of the legs of the jeans and sew them to the top. Or just save all your Pottery Barn Bags, if you shop there. Or your Macys Bags. Or your Chick Fillet carry out bags….
      Most large retailers give out very sturdy cloth or paper bags with purchases. Nordstrom bags are very sturdy. I think American Apparel give out cloth bags now. The solutions are endless.
      It’s really, really not that big a deal. Promise.

  5. Michelle Millet

    The other day I saw someone have to carry their milk jug out by the handle, instead of a bag. Honestly I can’t believe we have made it a week like this without complete pandaemonium and chaos breaking out.

    1. D.D.

      I saw someone carry one bunch of bananas out of the store and the poor bananas had no packaging whatsoever except for their banana skins. It was awful.

  6. Michelle Millet

    The other day I saw someone have to carry their milk jug out by the handle, instead of a bag. Honestly I can’t believe we have made it a week like this without complete pandaemonium and chaos breaking out.

    1. D.D.

      I saw someone carry one bunch of bananas out of the store and the poor bananas had no packaging whatsoever except for their banana skins. It was awful.

  7. Barack Palin

    I expected this a lttle sooner, honestly, that the bagophobes would be on here fluffing their feathers. It must of been hard for them to wait a whole week.

    1. Michelle Millet

      Wait a weeK? Are you kidding. Haven’t you seen my outside Safeway with my sign that reads “WE WON” while I make fun of people who are fumbling with their groceries?

  8. Barack Palin

    I expected this a lttle sooner, honestly, that the bagophobes would be on here fluffing their feathers. It must of been hard for them to wait a whole week.

    1. Michelle Millet

      Wait a weeK? Are you kidding. Haven’t you seen my outside Safeway with my sign that reads “WE WON” while I make fun of people who are fumbling with their groceries?

  9. Rich RifkinWDE 73

    I hate this stupid, solves no problem, creates new problems fiasco of the bag ban. That said, it’s here, and I’ll get used to it. I see no point in continuing to argue how dumb the basic idea is and that its proponents built all their arguments on lies, propaganda and assorted nonsense. That debate is, alas, over.

    DG: “At some point I’m sure I will purchase some reusable bags and actually place them where I can use them. “

    One of the only good things for me to come out of this idiotic policy is I happen to own a good number of “reusable” bags, a couple of which have built-in insulation, I guess designed to keep cold groceries cold. As it happens, back before my knees gave out, I was a long-distance runner, and inevitably, the “prize package” for marathons used to always include those sorts of bags, which ended up in my luggage closet. I’ve just been going through them since July 1.

    Speaking of my running … I was never very fast–at best I could do 26.2 miles in 3 hours, 30 minutes. However, I did once win the Clydesdale classification (usually men “over 200 pounds”) in the Sacramento Marathon, which since has been renamed the Cow Town Marathon. Because I now only weigh about 190 and my knee troubles turned me into a long-distance cyclist, my Clydesdale days are over. (FWIW, there usually is a large women’s category in big marathons called the Athena division.)

      1. Tia Will

        BP

        Rich has given us a very versatile word in “bagophobe”.
        Why I recall just recently when a poster on the Vanguard was saying that we were putting ourselves at all kinds of risk of gastroenteritis by using reusable cloth bags.
        Sound very bagophobic to me.

    1. South of Davis

      Rich wrote:

      > I was never very fast–at best I could do 26.2 miles in 3 hours, 30 minutes.

      You won’t make the Olympic team, but at that pace you are faster than MOST “marathon runners” (you will be in the top 20% at most marathons) and are faster than 99.99% of all Americans (many who would die before they ran 20 miles without stopping)….

      > However, I did once win the Clydesdale classification (usually men “over 200 pounds”)

      Back in my early 30’s I checked a box that I weighed over 180 (I was 185 as I am today but I was at around 6% body fat vs. about twice that today) when I signed up for a race and I was embarrassed to hear that I had won the”Clydesdale” class (I was too embarrassed to get the trophy)…

  10. Rich RifkinWDE 73

    I hate this stupid, solves no problem, creates new problems fiasco of the bag ban. That said, it’s here, and I’ll get used to it. I see no point in continuing to argue how dumb the basic idea is and that its proponents built all their arguments on lies, propaganda and assorted nonsense. That debate is, alas, over.

    DG: “At some point I’m sure I will purchase some reusable bags and actually place them where I can use them. “

    One of the only good things for me to come out of this idiotic policy is I happen to own a good number of “reusable” bags, a couple of which have built-in insulation, I guess designed to keep cold groceries cold. As it happens, back before my knees gave out, I was a long-distance runner, and inevitably, the “prize package” for marathons used to always include those sorts of bags, which ended up in my luggage closet. I’ve just been going through them since July 1.

    Speaking of my running … I was never very fast–at best I could do 26.2 miles in 3 hours, 30 minutes. However, I did once win the Clydesdale classification (usually men “over 200 pounds”) in the Sacramento Marathon, which since has been renamed the Cow Town Marathon. Because I now only weigh about 190 and my knee troubles turned me into a long-distance cyclist, my Clydesdale days are over. (FWIW, there usually is a large women’s category in big marathons called the Athena division.)

      1. Tia Will

        BP

        Rich has given us a very versatile word in “bagophobe”.
        Why I recall just recently when a poster on the Vanguard was saying that we were putting ourselves at all kinds of risk of gastroenteritis by using reusable cloth bags.
        Sound very bagophobic to me.

    1. South of Davis

      Rich wrote:

      > I was never very fast–at best I could do 26.2 miles in 3 hours, 30 minutes.

      You won’t make the Olympic team, but at that pace you are faster than MOST “marathon runners” (you will be in the top 20% at most marathons) and are faster than 99.99% of all Americans (many who would die before they ran 20 miles without stopping)….

      > However, I did once win the Clydesdale classification (usually men “over 200 pounds”)

      Back in my early 30’s I checked a box that I weighed over 180 (I was 185 as I am today but I was at around 6% body fat vs. about twice that today) when I signed up for a race and I was embarrassed to hear that I had won the”Clydesdale” class (I was too embarrassed to get the trophy)…

  11. Frankly

    My son was at the Safeway in line listening to several people complaining loudly about the lack of plastic bags and the $.10 charge for a paper bag that they didn’t want. He said a guy in front of him said “what the f___ is wrong with these Davis people, are they all that stupid?” Obviously from out of town.

    Still wondering how the homeless will fair when we get a bit of rain and all their paper bags fall apart.

    1. D.D.

      I guess the guy in line has never been to all the other communities that have already banned one time use bags and the guy has definitely never travelled overseas. Maybe he’s the stupid one.

      1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

        “other communities that have already banned one time use bags”

        One time use, my ass.

        Maybe the most infuriating part of this entire business is the fact that idiots make up lies and repeat them so often that they come to think they believe them. First it was that bags from Davis were floating from landfill by air over to the Sacramento River where they then floated down to the Delta and from there floated into Grizzly Bay and then floated into Suisun Bay and then floated into San Pablo Bay and then floated into San Francisco Bay and they floated under the Golden Gate into the Pacific Ocean, which, they claimed, was choked with plastic bags. Never mind that never could possibly happen. Never mind that these idiots have no understanding of physics. They just repeated this lie so much they came to believe it. Then they started to claim that all of rural Yolo County, which none of them have ever been to apparently, was awash in plastic bags which floated away. And they believed their own lie. Then they claimed that Road 28H, which none of them have ever been to, was awash in plastic bags which had escaped the County Landfill. Never mind that every week–including this morning–I ride my bike out CR 28H and have never seen this flood of plastic grocery bags. These liars–led by a professional lobbyist name Mark Murray, who is paid to lie about these things–didn’t bother to investigate this lie. They just repeated it so often it became true in their minds.

        And thus people like DD have no problem at all calling plastic grocery bags single use bags. Maybe he is such a wasteful person that he tosses bags in the trash after one use. But people I know who care about honesty in public discussion will tell you plastic grocery bags can be used multiple times and, unless they tear, are used many times. You think dog-walkers are picking up feces in a cloth bag?

        But again, there is no more need to debate this. The liars won. The people lost. Time to move on.

          1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

            DD, how about you try to make the case with facts and logic. Give me the facts about how many Davis plastic grocery bags are winding up in the ocean. Explain to me logically–if you are at all capable of logical argument–how this miracle takes place.

            I don’t need to read a book by a TV actor to know that the entire movement which led up to this bag ban in Davis is based on b.s. It’s just sad that you don’t have enough critical thinking skills to see through this load of ess, and your repeat the same nonsense the others in your camp repeat.

        1. D.D.

          Re: dog feces. If everyone in Davis went to that one drawer in their kitchen, or that one place where they cram all their plastic bags, and donated them to their friends who own dogs, voila. Problem solved.

        2. Barack Palin

          Dang Rich, I wish you had been this vehement before these fools pushed the plastic bag ban on the rest of us. I think you could’ve stirred up enough sane people in this town to have stopped the liberal bagophobe zealots from enacting this unneeded law.

          1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

            I’ve written about this issue. I spoke in front of the City Council about this. I have commented here and in the Enterprise comments. I have spoken with friends and neighbors. It’s all to no avail. The great desire in Davis is to pretend we (meaning the cool crowd) is doing something of real importance, even if what they are doing is effing stupid and they have no facts and no logic to back up what they have done. So it never mattered what I said or Dunning said or what most people in Davis really feel. All that mattered is a handful of (mostly) young idiots with no sense now can go around and be proud of themselves for having solved a major problem which of course never was a problem in the first place; and they don’t give a damn about anyone else’s feelings on this. They will just go on fooling themselves with made up bullish**.

        3. South of Davis

          Rich wrote:

          > Then they claimed that Road 28H, which none of them have ever been to

          Most (but not all) the people pushing the bag ban don’t use the plastic bags at all (and many hire people to pick up after their pets and have no idea what the guy uses). Most people pushing the ban have also never been to the landfill (and hope all the kids at the border get green cards so their next “green” remodel will cost less with plenty of low paid brown kids to do the demo and dump runs)…

          P.S. My friend lives on Oakdale in Mill Valley near the “zero waste” poster family the Johnson’s who had plenty of brown people ripping things out of the home they bought (for over a million) before they did a full remodel (but since the brown people filled the dumpsters they can say they are a “zero waste” family)…

          P.P. S. I bet Davis is one of the few towns with an “eco friendly” pet waste guy:
          http://daviswiki.org/Doody_Guy

          1. D.D.

            “Most people pushing the ban have also never been to the landfill …”
            I lived in the Willamette Valley in Oregon and had no garbage service to my property. I drove our VW van to the landfill, and when I got close, I put a cloth bandana covered with cologne over my face. Luckily, I was not arrested as a gang member, even with the cloth bandana. I saw acres & acres of dumped diapers and plastic and used furniture. It is an image I will carry in my crazy environmentalist mind forever.
            P.S. Ted Danson is not just a Hollywood actor. He is an environmentalist and his book, Oceana, is worth reading.

          1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

            Tia: LOL!

            You must have never had a real large dog. I walk my lab/border/pit mix (pound dog originally) every day in the parks or greenbelts. I have never once seen another dog owner (in the last 18 years I have had dogs in Davis) use a paper bag.

            One other thing you might care to know: there have been scientific studies on the environmental impacts of plastic grocery bags vs. paper grocery bags. The findings are consistent: paper bags cause far more environmental problems, not least of which is the far higher amount of energy used to produce them. (See, for example, “Which is more environmentally friendly: paper or plastic?” by Jane McGrath.)

          2. D.D.

            Tia, my beautiflu lab used to walk me. And I did use paper bags sometimes. She was a big dog and the paper bags worked just fine, in a pinch.

    2. Michelle Millet

      People in line at the grocery store were complaining about something? I had no idea the consequences would be so severe. That is it, we need to reverse this decision immediately.

        1. Michelle Millet

          Yes, I should be more sensitive to the concerns of people willing to use the
          “f” word in line at the grocery store over the fact that their bag preference is no longer an option.

      1. Frankly

        Yes – you are a flip-flopperus maximus. Here I thought you were green all over… next thing we will learn you are a registered Republican (i.e., the gals and guys with the slightly better ideas).

  12. Frankly

    My son was at the Safeway in line listening to several people complaining loudly about the lack of plastic bags and the $.10 charge for a paper bag that they didn’t want. He said a guy in front of him said “what the f___ is wrong with these Davis people, are they all that stupid?” Obviously from out of town.

    Still wondering how the homeless will fair when we get a bit of rain and all their paper bags fall apart.

    1. D.D.

      I guess the guy in line has never been to all the other communities that have already banned one time use bags and the guy has definitely never travelled overseas. Maybe he’s the stupid one.

      1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

        “other communities that have already banned one time use bags”

        One time use, my ass.

        Maybe the most infuriating part of this entire business is the fact that idiots make up lies and repeat them so often that they come to think they believe them. First it was that bags from Davis were floating from landfill by air over to the Sacramento River where they then floated down to the Delta and from there floated into Grizzly Bay and then floated into Suisun Bay and then floated into San Pablo Bay and then floated into San Francisco Bay and they floated under the Golden Gate into the Pacific Ocean, which, they claimed, was choked with plastic bags. Never mind that never could possibly happen. Never mind that these idiots have no understanding of physics. They just repeated this lie so much they came to believe it. Then they started to claim that all of rural Yolo County, which none of them have ever been to apparently, was awash in plastic bags which floated away. And they believed their own lie. Then they claimed that Road 28H, which none of them have ever been to, was awash in plastic bags which had escaped the County Landfill. Never mind that every week–including this morning–I ride my bike out CR 28H and have never seen this flood of plastic grocery bags. These liars–led by a professional lobbyist name Mark Murray, who is paid to lie about these things–didn’t bother to investigate this lie. They just repeated it so often it became true in their minds.

        And thus people like DD have no problem at all calling plastic grocery bags single use bags. Maybe he is such a wasteful person that he tosses bags in the trash after one use. But people I know who care about honesty in public discussion will tell you plastic grocery bags can be used multiple times and, unless they tear, are used many times. You think dog-walkers are picking up feces in a cloth bag?

        But again, there is no more need to debate this. The liars won. The people lost. Time to move on.

          1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

            DD, how about you try to make the case with facts and logic. Give me the facts about how many Davis plastic grocery bags are winding up in the ocean. Explain to me logically–if you are at all capable of logical argument–how this miracle takes place.

            I don’t need to read a book by a TV actor to know that the entire movement which led up to this bag ban in Davis is based on b.s. It’s just sad that you don’t have enough critical thinking skills to see through this load of ess, and your repeat the same nonsense the others in your camp repeat.

        1. D.D.

          Re: dog feces. If everyone in Davis went to that one drawer in their kitchen, or that one place where they cram all their plastic bags, and donated them to their friends who own dogs, voila. Problem solved.

        2. Barack Palin

          Dang Rich, I wish you had been this vehement before these fools pushed the plastic bag ban on the rest of us. I think you could’ve stirred up enough sane people in this town to have stopped the liberal bagophobe zealots from enacting this unneeded law.

          1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

            I’ve written about this issue. I spoke in front of the City Council about this. I have commented here and in the Enterprise comments. I have spoken with friends and neighbors. It’s all to no avail. The great desire in Davis is to pretend we (meaning the cool crowd) is doing something of real importance, even if what they are doing is effing stupid and they have no facts and no logic to back up what they have done. So it never mattered what I said or Dunning said or what most people in Davis really feel. All that mattered is a handful of (mostly) young idiots with no sense now can go around and be proud of themselves for having solved a major problem which of course never was a problem in the first place; and they don’t give a damn about anyone else’s feelings on this. They will just go on fooling themselves with made up bullish**.

        3. South of Davis

          Rich wrote:

          > Then they claimed that Road 28H, which none of them have ever been to

          Most (but not all) the people pushing the bag ban don’t use the plastic bags at all (and many hire people to pick up after their pets and have no idea what the guy uses). Most people pushing the ban have also never been to the landfill (and hope all the kids at the border get green cards so their next “green” remodel will cost less with plenty of low paid brown kids to do the demo and dump runs)…

          P.S. My friend lives on Oakdale in Mill Valley near the “zero waste” poster family the Johnson’s who had plenty of brown people ripping things out of the home they bought (for over a million) before they did a full remodel (but since the brown people filled the dumpsters they can say they are a “zero waste” family)…

          P.P. S. I bet Davis is one of the few towns with an “eco friendly” pet waste guy:
          http://daviswiki.org/Doody_Guy

          1. D.D.

            “Most people pushing the ban have also never been to the landfill …”
            I lived in the Willamette Valley in Oregon and had no garbage service to my property. I drove our VW van to the landfill, and when I got close, I put a cloth bandana covered with cologne over my face. Luckily, I was not arrested as a gang member, even with the cloth bandana. I saw acres & acres of dumped diapers and plastic and used furniture. It is an image I will carry in my crazy environmentalist mind forever.
            P.S. Ted Danson is not just a Hollywood actor. He is an environmentalist and his book, Oceana, is worth reading.

          1. Rich RifkinWDE 73

            Tia: LOL!

            You must have never had a real large dog. I walk my lab/border/pit mix (pound dog originally) every day in the parks or greenbelts. I have never once seen another dog owner (in the last 18 years I have had dogs in Davis) use a paper bag.

            One other thing you might care to know: there have been scientific studies on the environmental impacts of plastic grocery bags vs. paper grocery bags. The findings are consistent: paper bags cause far more environmental problems, not least of which is the far higher amount of energy used to produce them. (See, for example, “Which is more environmentally friendly: paper or plastic?” by Jane McGrath.)

          2. D.D.

            Tia, my beautiflu lab used to walk me. And I did use paper bags sometimes. She was a big dog and the paper bags worked just fine, in a pinch.

    2. Michelle Millet

      People in line at the grocery store were complaining about something? I had no idea the consequences would be so severe. That is it, we need to reverse this decision immediately.

        1. Michelle Millet

          Yes, I should be more sensitive to the concerns of people willing to use the
          “f” word in line at the grocery store over the fact that their bag preference is no longer an option.

      1. Frankly

        Yes – you are a flip-flopperus maximus. Here I thought you were green all over… next thing we will learn you are a registered Republican (i.e., the gals and guys with the slightly better ideas).

  13. D.D.

    Frankly, If you are wondering or maybe even a little bit concerned about the homeless population in Davis and how they get by when there is bad weather, maybe you could offer your help to one of them. He or she would probably appreciate whatever help you give.

  14. D.D.

    Frankly, If you are wondering or maybe even a little bit concerned about the homeless population in Davis and how they get by when there is bad weather, maybe you could offer your help to one of them. He or she would probably appreciate whatever help you give.

  15. D.D.

    “And thus people like DD have no problem at all calling plastic grocery bags single use bags. Maybe he is such a wasteful person that he tosses bags in the trash after one use. ”

    He is a she.

  16. D.D.

    “And thus people like DD have no problem at all calling plastic grocery bags single use bags. Maybe he is such a wasteful person that he tosses bags in the trash after one use. ”

    He is a she.

  17. South of Davis

    I passed a Prius with an “I’m Pro-Choice and I Vote” bumper sticker today.

    Maybe we can make money selling “I’m Pro-Choice (except for the choice of paper or plastic at the grocery store) and I Vote” stickers in Davis for all the people who are not “pro-choice” on anything “they” don’t like…

  18. South of Davis

    I passed a Prius with an “I’m Pro-Choice and I Vote” bumper sticker today.

    Maybe we can make money selling “I’m Pro-Choice (except for the choice of paper or plastic at the grocery store) and I Vote” stickers in Davis for all the people who are not “pro-choice” on anything “they” don’t like…

  19. Don Shor

    Day 1: looked around my house, found a cloth bag I’d brought back from my parents’ house. Hey, look, it has Scripps Institution of Oceanography printed on it. Cool thing to carry, I guess, since they both spent their whole careers there. Problem solved. I don’t think this is going to be too big a hassle for most people.

      1. Frankly

        Can Don still provide me a plastic bag to put down in the bed of my big 4×4 truck to make sure no plant juice leeks out. I really like my truck clean.

          1. Frankly

            Read that everyone… go buy a plant a day from Don to get a good supply of plastic bag trunk liners!

          2. Don Shor

            Yes, and you could cut them up into squares and then fold them and take a glue gun and make your own plastic bags!

          3. D.D.

            Are there any mom & pop stores left in Davis that sell craft supplies? I want to bedazzle that DIY plastic bag I made.

  20. Don Shor

    Day 1: looked around my house, found a cloth bag I’d brought back from my parents’ house. Hey, look, it has Scripps Institution of Oceanography printed on it. Cool thing to carry, I guess, since they both spent their whole careers there. Problem solved. I don’t think this is going to be too big a hassle for most people.

      1. Frankly

        Can Don still provide me a plastic bag to put down in the bed of my big 4×4 truck to make sure no plant juice leeks out. I really like my truck clean.

          1. Frankly

            Read that everyone… go buy a plant a day from Don to get a good supply of plastic bag trunk liners!

          2. Don Shor

            Yes, and you could cut them up into squares and then fold them and take a glue gun and make your own plastic bags!

          3. D.D.

            Are there any mom & pop stores left in Davis that sell craft supplies? I want to bedazzle that DIY plastic bag I made.

  21. Tia Will

    Rich

    1) I have had a setter, a boxer mix, a small mutt, a large mutt and now a Corgi. Newspaper works fine.
    2) I have never made the argument that plastic bags from Davis end up in the ocean. I find them quite obnoxious
    enough blowing around town. There is no need to exaggerate. I took pictures of seven on one side of F street
    between third and 14th when I was out on a walk one day to illustrate to you that they do exist in town even if
    not on your routes. Unfortunately, I am not computer savvy enough to post them.
    3) I have never made a statement one way or the other comparing plastic and paper. I find this a false dichotomy.
    I try to use cloth bags and I launder them with my regular laundry when they become soiled. I have yet to
    have experienced bag induced gastroenteritis. Now if you want to consider facts, let’s consider how much more
    rampant gastro-enteritis is in Europe where use of net or cloth bags is the norm, or in any other city where the
    predominant bags are cloth……or not. Use of exaggeration is not limited to one side or the other of this issue.

      1. Tia Will

        Frankly

        Remind me not to shake your hand after you have done any activity at all unless your have thoroughly washed your hands. “ICK” and “yuk” factors aside, we are at much greater risk from the bacteria found on our own hands, from our own mouths and noses, and from our own excrement than we are from dog poop.

        I have to admit….you have me on the diarrhea. Luckily, that has never been a problem.
        That I would leave temporarily until I could retrieve one of my few stashed plastic bags.

    1. South of Davis

      Tia wrote:

      > There is no need to exaggerate. I took pictures of seven on
      > one side of F street between third and 14th when I was out
      > on a walk one day to illustrate to you that they do exist in town
      > even if not on your routes. Unfortunately, I am not computer
      > savvy enough to post them.

      I ride or drive down F Street most days (often passing the mayor on his bike heading to the train station) and I have NEVER seen a “single use” grocery bag (not counting the ones I often see around town full of dog poop on the top of the yard waste piles). I’m sure Tia may have spotted seven “one day” (I bet it was the day after a “false flag” attack from the bag banners) but finding a plastic bag every other block on “one side” of F street is not typical (especially since the only grocery store near F Street is the Co-Op where just about everyone has been bringing their own bags for years)…

      1. Tia Will

        South of Davis

        I think the key to our difference in perception is in you post. While biking or driving my car, I rarely noticed any plastic bags. I specified that I was walking. It is only when you are walking that you are able to see them as they tend to blow until they are caught and trapped either under a bush or between a bush and a fence. That particular day was exceptional in number seen. However, since my primary means of transportation around my neighborhood of Old East Davis and the downtown area is on foot, I am moving much more slowly and am able to see many of these partially concealed bags. When I am not in a hurry or carrying stuff, I usually stop to pick them up.

      2. D.D.

        Walk around Davis after a windy day. Think of a blustery Winnie the Pooh type day. You will find plastic bags blowin’ around. Maybe not so many anymore. I hope.
        What Tia saw was not an anomaly.

    2. D.D.

      I think that visitors in Davis could drive home to the bay area and have plastic bags and plastic bottles in their cars. Those could end up in the Pacific. The ocean is not that far away from Davis.

  22. Tia Will

    Rich

    1) I have had a setter, a boxer mix, a small mutt, a large mutt and now a Corgi. Newspaper works fine.
    2) I have never made the argument that plastic bags from Davis end up in the ocean. I find them quite obnoxious
    enough blowing around town. There is no need to exaggerate. I took pictures of seven on one side of F street
    between third and 14th when I was out on a walk one day to illustrate to you that they do exist in town even if
    not on your routes. Unfortunately, I am not computer savvy enough to post them.
    3) I have never made a statement one way or the other comparing plastic and paper. I find this a false dichotomy.
    I try to use cloth bags and I launder them with my regular laundry when they become soiled. I have yet to
    have experienced bag induced gastroenteritis. Now if you want to consider facts, let’s consider how much more
    rampant gastro-enteritis is in Europe where use of net or cloth bags is the norm, or in any other city where the
    predominant bags are cloth……or not. Use of exaggeration is not limited to one side or the other of this issue.

      1. Tia Will

        Frankly

        Remind me not to shake your hand after you have done any activity at all unless your have thoroughly washed your hands. “ICK” and “yuk” factors aside, we are at much greater risk from the bacteria found on our own hands, from our own mouths and noses, and from our own excrement than we are from dog poop.

        I have to admit….you have me on the diarrhea. Luckily, that has never been a problem.
        That I would leave temporarily until I could retrieve one of my few stashed plastic bags.

    1. South of Davis

      Tia wrote:

      > There is no need to exaggerate. I took pictures of seven on
      > one side of F street between third and 14th when I was out
      > on a walk one day to illustrate to you that they do exist in town
      > even if not on your routes. Unfortunately, I am not computer
      > savvy enough to post them.

      I ride or drive down F Street most days (often passing the mayor on his bike heading to the train station) and I have NEVER seen a “single use” grocery bag (not counting the ones I often see around town full of dog poop on the top of the yard waste piles). I’m sure Tia may have spotted seven “one day” (I bet it was the day after a “false flag” attack from the bag banners) but finding a plastic bag every other block on “one side” of F street is not typical (especially since the only grocery store near F Street is the Co-Op where just about everyone has been bringing their own bags for years)…

      1. Tia Will

        South of Davis

        I think the key to our difference in perception is in you post. While biking or driving my car, I rarely noticed any plastic bags. I specified that I was walking. It is only when you are walking that you are able to see them as they tend to blow until they are caught and trapped either under a bush or between a bush and a fence. That particular day was exceptional in number seen. However, since my primary means of transportation around my neighborhood of Old East Davis and the downtown area is on foot, I am moving much more slowly and am able to see many of these partially concealed bags. When I am not in a hurry or carrying stuff, I usually stop to pick them up.

      2. D.D.

        Walk around Davis after a windy day. Think of a blustery Winnie the Pooh type day. You will find plastic bags blowin’ around. Maybe not so many anymore. I hope.
        What Tia saw was not an anomaly.

    2. D.D.

      I think that visitors in Davis could drive home to the bay area and have plastic bags and plastic bottles in their cars. Those could end up in the Pacific. The ocean is not that far away from Davis.

  23. Frankly

    Come look in the back of my wife’s brand new expensive American made SUV and note the 12-15 reusable bags made out of various man-made fibers and multi-color inks and dyes scattered all over the floor. What a mess. But then those greenie people like to drive messy cars.

    She does say though that you people picking up dog poo with paper are icky.

  24. Frankly

    Come look in the back of my wife’s brand new expensive American made SUV and note the 12-15 reusable bags made out of various man-made fibers and multi-color inks and dyes scattered all over the floor. What a mess. But then those greenie people like to drive messy cars.

    She does say though that you people picking up dog poo with paper are icky.

  25. Dave Hart

    This bag ban blog bugs me. I don’t think I’ve seen such an outpouring of infantile whining since, well, since I witnessed a four year old having an afternoon breakdown over not being able to button her shirt. Totally the worst day of her life and today is the worst day of the bagless and clueless nattering nabobs of negativism.

    We’ve been using bags for shopping for 15 years, for crying out loud. Every one of the people complaining about the bag ban probably have reusable bags in their house already. Go out and get your bags and get used to using them. Yeah, you’ll forget them once in awhile and that will teach you to leave them in your car or right there next to the door or in the garage next to the car (if your garage isn’t stuffed to the gills with other crap you don’t need). I don’t want to hear any more crap or whining about this ordinance that shouldn’t be needed, but because so many people don’t know how to live in a conscious way, the big, bad govmint needs to penalize you into living right. Yeah. Living right is not RECYCLING. Living right is reusing. Over and over again.

    Get a life! And no, I’m not getting into a dialogue about this. If you disagree with me you’re just wrong.

    1. South of Davis

      Dave wrote:

      > I don’t think I’ve seen such an outpouring of infantile whining since, well,
      > since I witnessed a four year old having an afternoon breakdown over not
      > being able to button her shirt

      Just think what would happen if Davis banned rubber yoga mats…

  26. Dave Hart

    This bag ban blog bugs me. I don’t think I’ve seen such an outpouring of infantile whining since, well, since I witnessed a four year old having an afternoon breakdown over not being able to button her shirt. Totally the worst day of her life and today is the worst day of the bagless and clueless nattering nabobs of negativism.

    We’ve been using bags for shopping for 15 years, for crying out loud. Every one of the people complaining about the bag ban probably have reusable bags in their house already. Go out and get your bags and get used to using them. Yeah, you’ll forget them once in awhile and that will teach you to leave them in your car or right there next to the door or in the garage next to the car (if your garage isn’t stuffed to the gills with other crap you don’t need). I don’t want to hear any more crap or whining about this ordinance that shouldn’t be needed, but because so many people don’t know how to live in a conscious way, the big, bad govmint needs to penalize you into living right. Yeah. Living right is not RECYCLING. Living right is reusing. Over and over again.

    Get a life! And no, I’m not getting into a dialogue about this. If you disagree with me you’re just wrong.

    1. South of Davis

      Dave wrote:

      > I don’t think I’ve seen such an outpouring of infantile whining since, well,
      > since I witnessed a four year old having an afternoon breakdown over not
      > being able to button her shirt

      Just think what would happen if Davis banned rubber yoga mats…

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