Governor Signs Bill to Toughen Sexual Assault Legislation, Through Affirmative Consent

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On Sunday, without comment, Governor Jerry Brown signed legislation that changes the standards for sexual assault and requires college campuses to adopt policies for rape responses that include an “affirmative consent” stand, which puts responsibility on someone engaging in sexual activity to obtain an affirmative, conscious and voluntary agreement from his or her partner.

This was nationally watched legislation that ultimately was backed by the chancellors of all three college systems: the California State University, the University of California, and California Community Colleges.

Senate Bill 967 author Senator Kevin de Leόn (D-Los Angeles) said, “Every student deserves a learning environment that is safe and healthy. With 1 in 5 women on college campuses experiencing sexual assault, it is high time the conversation regarding sexual assault be shifted to one of prevention, justice, and healing.”

Senator Hannah-Beth Jackson (D-Santa Barbara) said, “This bill is about changing the culture on college and university campuses to a culture of ‘no excuses.’ No excuses for rape, no excuses for blaming the victims of rape, no excuses for not supporting these victims, and no excuses for turning a blind eye to the problem of campus sexual assaults. SB 967 will create safer environments for students.”

SB 967 will require California colleges and universities to address campus sexual violence by requiring them to adopt consistent survivor-centered sexual assault response policies and protocols that follow best practices and professional standards for prevention, access to resources, and fair adjudication proceedings.

The measure strengthens preventative measures, including education about consent for students. To ensure a fairer campus adjudication process, the bill requires increased training for the faculty reviewing complaints, so that survivors of assault are not re-victimized by inappropriate questions when they seek justice.

The bill also requires access to resources like counseling and health services, which are absolutely critical for recovery.

California State University Chancellor Timothy P. White said, “The California State University will take the strongest possible measures to prevent any act of sexual assault or harassment within our campus communities. Senate Bill 967 is consistent with the long-standing priority of ensuring the safety and protection of the 450,000 students on our campuses and we appreciate the efforts of Senator de León to further ensure their safety.”

“The University of California has no tolerance for any form of sexual violence or harassment, and all 10 of our campus chancellors and I have taken a number of actions to ensure the safety of our students. As we continue to move ahead with our efforts, we welcome Senator De León’s legislation,” said University of California President Janet Napolitano.

“It is imperative that the entire higher education community embrace the policies and protocols outlined by SB 967,” said California Community College Chancellor Brice Harris. “Ensuring a safe and secure learning environment is an essential responsibility of our colleges and SB 967 will aid our system in meeting this commitment to our students, faculty and staff.”

Congresswoman Jackie Speier, who represents parts of San Francisco and San Mateo counties, wrote a letter to Governor Brown two weeks ago.

“This legislation takes an important first step away from current practice addressing sexual assault cases by establishing a ‘yes means yes’ standard for colleges and universities to determine consent. California’s public universities have always led the country, and with Governor Brown’s signature they will lead in protecting students,” said Congresswoman Speier. “No student should have to fear sexual violence at their college or university. Universities have failed to protect students, and we need to change course before more students become survivors. Twenty percent of young women and six percent of young men will be victims of attempted or actual sexual assault while attending college. When these survivors do come forward, they shouldn’t have to prove their assault wasn’t consensual.”

According to the Legislative Digest, the bill requires “the governing boards of each community college district, the Trustees of the California State University, the Regents of the University of California, and the governing boards of independent postsecondary institutions, in order to receive state funds for student financial assistance, to adopt policies concerning sexual assault, domestic violence, dating violence, and stalking that include certain elements, including an affirmative consent standard in the determination of whether consent was given by a complainant.

“The bill would require these governing boards to adopt certain sexual assault policies and protocols, as specified, and would require the governing boards, to the extent feasible, to enter into memoranda of understanding or other agreements or collaborative partnerships with on-campus and community-based organizations to refer students for assistance or make services available to students.

“The bill would also require the governing boards to implement comprehensive prevention and outreach programs addressing sexual assault, domestic violence, dating violence, and stalking. By requiring community college districts to adopt or modify certain policies and protocols, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program.”

According to the bill, “affirmative consent” means “affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. It is the responsibility of each person involved in the sexual activity to ensure that he or she has the affirmative consent of the other or others to engage in the sexual activity.”

“Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent,” the law now states. “Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time. The existence of a dating relationship between the persons involved, or the fact of past sexual relations between them, should never by itself be assumed to be an indicator of consent.”

Senator De León stated, “Our daughters, sisters, nieces, and friends should not live in fear of becoming a victim of violent crime while pursuing their academic goals.”

—David M. Greenwald reporting

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About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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152 thoughts on “Governor Signs Bill to Toughen Sexual Assault Legislation, Through Affirmative Consent”

  1. Barack Palin

    “According to the bill, “Affirmative consent” means “affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. It is the responsibility of each person involved in the sexual activity to ensure that he or she has the affirmative consent of the other or others to engage in the sexual activity.”

    So if two college students end up having sex and neither one asked for consent are they both going to jail?

    If two college students have sex and neither one asked for consent but only the girl complains is the guy going to jail even though the girl never asked for his consent either?

    Stupid law!

    1. David Greenwald Post author

      “So if two college students end up having sex and neither one asked for consent are they both going to jail?”

      Someone would have to file a sexual assault complaint.

      The way I see this working is that you get into a date rape situation, the defense is always along the lines that she never said know, this changes the burden from the woman (or man) saying “no” to the woman (or man) having to affirmatively say yes. It’s a burden shift in the law. Because right now, most sexual assaults don’t get reported and the reason is that it devolves into a he said/ she said.

      1. Barack Palin

        “If two college students have sex and neither one asked for consent but only the girl complains is the guy going to jail even though the girl never asked for his consent either?”

        And what’s your opinion of this scenario?

        This law has too many holes.

          1. Davis Progressive

            as far as i know you’re not an attorney. i haven’t read the law, but it does go through a lot of legal review by people who know more about the law than you do. given that, why would attorneys allow for a law to go through that has as many holes as you think it does?

          2. TrueBlueDevil

            Because the people who crafted this are liberal idealogues, who work for liberal idealogues, who think they can somehow create an ideal utopia.

      2. Barack Palin

        Heck, most times I’ve had sex with my own wife I could be considered to have broken this new law.

        Two college kids get drunk and have sex and and even though the guy asked for her consent and she said yes because they were drunk he could be later brought up on charges if she made an issue of it.

        Dumb law!

        Leave it to Democrats to come up with crap like this.

        1. Davis Progressive

          you clearly did not read the law before you posted. the key part of the law is this:

          in the evaluation of complaints in any disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse to alleged lack of affirmative consent that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the sexual activity under either of the following circumstances:
          (A) The accused’s belief in affirmative consent arose from the intoxication or recklessness of the accused.
          (B) The accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known to the accused at the time, to ascertain whether the complainant affirmatively consented.
          (3) A policy that the standard used in determining whether the elements of the complaint against the accused have been demonstrated is the preponderance of the evidence.
          (4) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in the disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse that the accused believed that the complainant affirmatively consented to the sexual activity if the accused knew or reasonably should have known that the complainant was unable to consent to the sexual activity under any of the following circumstances:
          (A) The complainant was asleep or unconscious.
          (B) The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.
          (C) The complainant was unable to communicate due to a mental or physical condition.

          that’s a lot different than the scenario that you’re conjuring up. please read the law first before you make dumb comments.

          1. Davis Progressive

            as you read this law, it becomes clear that it is really intended to deal with situations of casual sex between acquaintances, as an ongoing relationship would establish reasonableness and to prove spousal rape would require a much higher burden.

          2. Barack Palin

            A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in the disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse that the accused believed that the complainant affirmatively consented to the sexual activity if the accused knew or reasonably should have known that the complainant was unable to consent to the sexual activity under any of the following circumstances:

            (B) The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.

            You just showed the language that shows my post was valid. Maybe it’s you that needs to read the law before you make dumbass comments?

          3. Davis Progressive

            explain how that language validates your comment? the current law forces the woman to prove that she didn’t consent, now the law forces the man to prove that she did. yes, guys should be reluctant to have sex with a drunk girl that he hardly knows. i fail to see how that makes the law bad or could be construed a bad thing.

          4. Barack Palin

            “Two college kids get drunk and have sex and and even though the guy asked for her consent and she said yes because they were drunk he could be later brought up on charges if she made an issue of it.”

            Reread my statement very slowly this time and try and think a little because as I stated my scenarion could full well take place under the language of this new law. Is the guy supposed to carry around a breathalyzer to make sure she’s not drunk and a tape recorder to show that she said “yes”?
            Dumb law.

          5. Matt Williams

            Is the guy supposed to carry around a breathalyzer to make sure she’s not drunk and a tape recorder to show that she said “yes”?

            That indeed is one alternative BP. It is a cumbersome alternative. A much simpler alternative is that if the guy suspects that the girl is under the influence or impaired, he simply should refrain from asking the girl to have sex with him. No breathalyzer, no tape recorder, just good judgement … and respect for a fellow human being.

          6. Davis Progressive

            it is not illegal under this law to have sex with someone intoxicated. what this law changes is the defense that she was drunk and he thought she wanted it.

          7. Barack Palin

            I see you still don’t comprehend what I wrote, once again, I said that they were both drunk. So are they both breaking the law?

          8. Matt Williams

            I said that they were both drunk. So are they both breaking the law?

            Yes and no. They are both AT RISK of breaking the law. The only way that either of them will ACTUALLY be breaking the law is if either of them subsequently asserts that informed consent was not given.

          9. Davis Progressive

            you’re creating an absurd scenario where both parties get drunk, both parties claim to be taken advantage of when you know full well that’s not likely and not what the legislation was written to address.

          10. Barack Palin

            No, not an absurb scenario at all. Two college students go to a bar, both get typsy, go out to a car and the guy says do you want to have sex and the girl says “yes”. They have sex but the girl later tries to bring the guy up on charges because even though she said yes she was also drunk and that makes her agreeing to have the sex with him not acceptable under the law.

            I can see that scenario playing out a lot and is why this law is just dumb.

          11. Matt Williams

            Barack, if the two college students get tipsy, then it is incumbent on the male member of the two NOT TO ASK the female member of the two whether she wants to have sex. The fact that it plays out a lot is no excuse. The guy should know better. He should use hi9s brain and NOT ASK for trouble, especially in a situation where he is at no risk and the female is at considerable risk.

          12. Davis Progressive

            you understand that if you willingly get drunk, you are held accountable for your actions. on the other hand if the guy drugs her, then even if she says yes, it’s not consent.

          13. Barack Palin

            “The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.”

            Read the law as you posted it. It clearly states “alcohol”, it doesn’t state that it had to be given to her by the guy. It doesn’t state that she’s responsible for her actions of getting drunk, it just says if she’s incapacitated due to alchol.

            Yes, if he drugged her it’s a whole different ballgame, nobody is denying that.

          14. Davis Progressive

            and you have to understand the rest of the laws. so, under the law, if you voluntarily drink alcohol, you are responsible for your actions. if you get drunk and kill someone, getting drunk doesn’t excuse you. if you get drunk, go have sex with a guy you don’t know, as long as you consented, then it was legal.

            where this law changes things is the gray area – the guy pressures the drunk girl to have sex, she didn’t want to, but she never said no explicitly. the law says it’s rape if she doesn’t say yes under that scenario.

          15. TrueBlueDevil

            Davis Progressive, the same works in reverse, right? What if a woman beds a man who is drunk, there is a gray area, and in the morning he feels violated and ashamed. He can then file rape charges, right?

            Lots of gender stereotyping here.

          16. Matt Williams

            Davis Progressive, the same works in reverse, right? What if a woman beds a man who is drunk, there is a gray area, and in the morning he feels violated and ashamed. He can then file rape charges, right?

            Absolutely he has the right to file such charges, and absolutely should file such charges if he believes he was raped. What would make you think he wouldn’t have that right?

          17. Davis Progressive

            i’ve been an attorney either defense or prosecutor for over 30 years – want to know how many times i’ve had a case where the guy complains that the woman sexually assaulted him – zero. you know why? if it happens, it is very very rare.

          18. DavisVoter

            Just to chime in here with one point: the complainant’s consent doesn’t count due to drunkenness only if s/he couldn’t understand “the fact, nature, or extent” of the sexual activity. S/he’s apparently not allowed to argue, “I was so drunk that I couldn’t make a reasonable decision to give consent,” only that “I was so drunk I didn’t understand that we were having sex.”

            On a separate point, I don’t know how important this standard is. The accused can always say, “S/he said yes.” The complainant says, “No I didn’t.” The legislation doesn’t seem to require the colleges to make the accused prove consent — it seems the college may still be able to require the complainant to prove absence of affirmative consent.

        2. Matt Williams

          BP, if both parties in an encounter were equally at risk then the weight of the respective “Yes” or “No” answers would be easier to sort out. The challenge is that the male members of sexual encounters are not “at risk” while the female members of sexual encounters are very much “at risk.” That makes a “no” from a female participant the equivalent of a ship captain’s “full stop” command from the bridge … regardless of timing, regardless of the existence of any prior “yes.”

          Bottom-line, in any sexual encounter the female partners are the “captains of the ship.”

          1. Barack Palin

            Matt, when both parties are innebriated and the girl says yes but later says she was drunk so her yes is overidden by the law do you think the guy should then be up on rape charges?

          2. Matt Williams

            Matt, when both parties are innebriated and the girl says yes but later says she was drunk so her yes is overidden by the law do you think the guy should then be up on rape charges?

            Absolutely, just as I believe that when both parties are innebriated and the guy says yes but later says he was drunk so his yes is also overidden by the law … and the girl should then be up on rape charges.

          3. Matt Williams

            The men aren’t at risk for getting an STD or being stalked?

            On a scale of 1-10 the risk and consequence of getting an STD is somewhere between a 2 and a 5 (different people will subjectively assess this risk differently), and that risk is bi-lateral (both the guy and the girl have equal risk) On a scale of 1-10 the risk and consequence of getting pregnant is somewhere betwwen an 8 and a 10 (different people will subjectively assess this risk differently), and that risk is uni-lateral (the girl bears 100% of the risk and the guy bears 0% of the risk). On a scale of 1-10 the risk and consequence of being stalked is somewhere between a zero and a 1 (different people will subjectively assess this risk differently), and that risk is again bi-lateral (both the guy and the girl have risk, although I suspect the number of female stalkers is a tiny fraction of the number of male stalkers)

          4. South of Davis

            BP asks:

            > Matt, when both parties are innebriated and the girl says yes but
            > later says she was drunk so her yes is overidden by the law do
            > you think the guy should then be up on rape charges?

            We already have this, and every year some girls that are not asked to go to the fraternity formal in SF say they were “raped” by the guy that have been dating/sleeping with for months before he found a better looking girl to date/sleep with and take to the fraternity formal.

            Not many professors will admit it but I know some that have given higher grades to girls that have threatened to say they tried to “rape” them. Once any guy is accused of rape a large percentage of the population will think they did it so it is a good idea to avoid being alone with any woman you don’t know.

            Back when Ron Paul was running for President an interviewer made a joke that he is one of the few politicians that has never had any mistress rumors and he responded “that is because I have never been alone with another woman who was not my wife since I got married”. The interviewer laughed thinking Ron Paul was making a joke and he responded “if a woman is alone in the hospital elevator I’ll wait for the next one, so you probably won’t have anyone saying I have a mistress”…

          5. TrueBlueDevil

            SOD, are you serious about this fraternity claim? Was there a big deal in the newspapers?

            The professors you refer to, did they “date” their students? Is is currently legal for a prof or TA to date a student?

          6. Davis Progressive

            “Not many professors will admit it but I know some that have given higher grades to girls that have threatened to say they tried to “rape” them. ”

            the more i read from you, the more i realize how [bleeped] up your views are or you’re just [bleeping] with the rest of us.

          7. South of Davis

            TBD asks:

            > SOD, are you serious about this fraternity claim?
            > Was there a big deal in the newspapers?

            A few years back I was talking to a UCD student when someone kept posting to the Davis Wiki that the local Sigma Chi chapter was a “date rape frat” and he said his chapter was not on the Wiki but he knew of “many” guys that had rumors spread about them that they were “rapists” after they broke up with girls (specifically his roommate that recently broke up with a Theta to take a Kappa to the big formal in SF).

            I just went to the Davis Wiki and it “still” (after all these years) says:

            “For many years in the past, Sigma Chi and numerous other Greek Letter Organizations have been at the center of rumors that indicate the organizations as “date rape frats”. The rumors, which age number greater than any active brother’s membership, are completely unsubstantiated. No one has come forward with allegations amounting to rape against a member of the Sigma Chi Fraternity, Theta Omicron.”

            http://daviswiki.org/Sigma_Chi/History

            > The professors you refer to, did they “date” their students? Is is
            > currently legal for a prof or TA to date a student?

            The professor I write about was one of my college professors many years ago that I got close with. I spent a lot o time talking with him in his office more often than not about topics not related to the class. One dark winter night I made a comment how dark and quiet it was even though it was only 6:30 pm and he warned me about being alone with crazy women and told me a story that he said he was “not proud to admit”. A girl who was failing his class came to his office after 6:00 pm on a dark winter night and told him that she needed a B in his class. He told her that she should have came in for help earlier and that she would have to take the class over if she wanted a B. She looked him in the eye and said unless you agree to give me a B I’m going to rip my shirt off and out of here topless screaming rape, and if I don’t see a B when the report card comes I’ll file attempted rape charges. He said as sad as it is he had no choice since he knew many people would never believe him even if he was acquitted in court (Like William Kennedy The Rapist Smith)….

    2. hpierce

      To a certain extent, relax… the worst someone could suffer under this is expulsion. Not even clear if the “record” would follow them to another institution.

      Perhaps UCD Student Affairs could come up with a “Model Consent” agreement as the ASUCD did with the “Model Lease”. Question would be if the signatures would have to be notarized. Looks like you’d need a separate agreement for each instance.

      1. Frankly

        Not true. Apply for an SBA loan and you have to list any arrests even if not convicted or not on record. And if you don’t and later it is discovered that you failed to make this disclosure, the penalty can be a federal felony.

        1. hpierce

          Please back this up with a cite (or site) where that question is asked and that interpretation is given, for a SBA application. Until then, I am highly skeptical.

          1. Frankly

            It is what I do for a living. I am constantly fighting Washington over the 50-60 year old borrower arrested for drug possession or protesting when he was with the scene back in the day. Most of those get cleared, but some go to the FBI. And an arrest for a sex crime would likely get held up and cause a rejection.

            Bureaucrats hate being embarrassed by the press and media more than anything.

            Google SBA form 912

          2. Matt Williams

            Thanks for that link. The actual questions are quite focused, and read as follows. :

            7. Are you presently subject to an indictment, criminal information, arraignment, or other means by which formal criminal charges are brought in any jurisdiction?

            8. Have you been arrested in the past six months for any criminal offense?

            9. For any criminal offense – other than a minor vehicle violation – have you ever: 1) been convicted; 2) plead guilty; 3) plead nolo contendere; 4) been placed on pretrial diversion; or 5) been placed on any form of parole or probation (including probation before judgment).

          3. Frankly

            It is important to note that you must answer these questions truthfully, even if your record was sealed, expunged, or is otherwise unavailable. As SBA Form 912 clearly indicates, a criminal record will not necessarily disqualify you, but an untruthful answer will cause your loan application to be denied. Also be aware that the information collected may be checked against criminal history records of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. – See more at: http://fitsmallbusiness.com/sba-form-912/#sthash.IGxLIVLb.dpuf

          4. Frankly

            Frankly, whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?

            This is government. Who oversees government to tell them to stop?

            But then what about the NFL players losing their jobs from claims of spousal abuse and/or child abuse?

            The point here is serious damage is done to young men as a result of this legislation. The “victim” will most likely get over it and move on, the accused will be damaged for life.

          5. Matt Williams

            The point here is serious damage is done to young men as a result of this legislation. The “victim” will most likely get over it and move on, the accused will be damaged for life.

            Only if they follow their hormones. If they follow their brain, they won’t have any problem or suffer any damage. Remember, God gave Man a brain and a penis, but only enough blood to run one at a time. Feed your brain.

          6. Matt Williams

            The NFL players are employees who have signed a Code of Conduct as part of their employment. They have voluntarily agreed to abide by the dictates of that Code.

          7. TrueBlueDevil

            Frankly wrote: “Bureaucrats hate being embarrassed by the press and media more than anything”

            The classic sales criteria is that a customer will only buy your product if you save them time, or you save them money. But this doesn’t work with the government, because it is not their money or time. So sales people are taught to sell to the government employees, “If you hire our firm, you will not be embarrassed.”\

  2. Frankly

    Bravo for another win-notch of the Women’s Movement. It is an impressive collection of wins.

    I keep thinking of that line in the movie The Giver “when you give people the freedom to choose, they choose wrong every time.”

    Unfortunately, based on this legislation, we don’t think girls are generally capable of making the right decisions when it comes to consent for sex. We need to protect them from all those nasty boy rapists… and according to the narrative of NOW, all males are.

    From a California liberal Democrat position, testosterone is politically and socially incorrect and must be minimized and controlled!

    I wonder where we are headed as a society with respect to gender relations and sexuality. I don’t know if those pushing this type of “progress” have any care, but from my perspective we are simply dehumanizing humanity into a unattractive, overly sanitized false utopia where the state decides which group deserves protection and which other group should be persecuted… and within the growing volumes of “rules to live by” more and more people decide it isn’t worth the trouble to associate with anyone outside their own group.

    Boys, get a good internet connection and some privacy. Then hang with your buddies, drink beer and watch sports. Girls will mess up your grades, cause you to go into debt and then in a fit of regret they will seek revenge and claim you are a rapist. Maybe one day you will find that special girl and settle down, but until then lean how to control your hormones or else you might pay a significant high price. Even a claim that you were a rapist can destroy the rest of your life. Just don’t goo there.

    Regret is not rape. We do a great disservice to those harmed by true rape by corrupting the definition this way.

      1. hpierce

        I agree. The law, as written, says nothing about criminal charges. A student, under this law, would be no more subject to criminal prosecution in Superior Court than they are today. I assume that is what you meant by ‘not reading the law’, Davis Progressive. And, if the “perp” was not a student, it would not have any effect unless the perp applied to another California College. Meanwhile, HS students are not affected, so “date-rape” is still what it is today, and no-one outside the State post-secondary system is affected. The law is not ‘stupid’, it is impotent.

          1. Barack Palin

            LOL, by that time they’ll be out of the mood.

            And all this time I’ve always thought that conservatives were the ones who were considered overbearing when it came to sexual relations. Who knew?

          2. Davis Progressive

            no conservatives are not overbearing when it comes to sexual relations, they expect the male to dominate the female and anything that upsets that natural order makes them uneasy.

          3. Matt Williams

            Yeah right, say yes and sign this, show me your license so that I know it’s really you and then you have to prove that you’re not legally drunk.

            Sounds like a plan.

    1. Tia Will

      Frankly

      “I wonder where we are headed as a society with respect to gender relations and sexuality.”

      What we don’t have to wonder about is where we have been with respect to gender relations and sexuality. What we know from statistics is that although sexual coercion can occur to either gender, sexual aggression against women is far more common than is sexual aggression against men. If you do not believe this, just Google any reliable set of statistics you would like on rape. This law does not state specifically that it can only be used by women against men, the language is of complainant and accused. The only people that I see making it gender dependent are those who want to assume it is “she” vs “he” in order to bolster their own preconceived world view……and it is not the liberals that are doing this, at least on this blog.

      1. South of Davis

        Tia wrote:

        > The only people that I see making it gender dependent are those who
        > want to assume it is “she” vs “he” in order to bolster their own
        > preconceived world view

        As far as I know not a single group representing men “raped” by woman were involved with trying to get this law passed.

        As far as “preconceived” world view have you EVER read of a SINGLE story a college man who was “date raped” by a woman?

        1. Don Shor

          As far as I know not a single group representing men “raped” by woman were involved with trying to get this law passed.

          When men are raped, it’s more commonly by other men.

          1. TrueBlueDevil

            I wonder why the rape lobby doesn’t go to prisons to help all of the men who are raped in prison? If rape and the “power dynamic” is really the core issue, but I don’t think it is.

            Hillary Clinton would have been moved off the map as a possible Democratic Presidential nominee for 2016 given the recent revelations about her support and laughing regarding a child rape in Arkansas 30 years ago. She defended a child rapist, and then laughed about it! She doesn’t come off as very smart… didn’t she fail the bar in Washington DC?

          2. TrueBlueDevil

            And when young boys are raped (statutory rape) by female teachers, there is a double standard. He is considered lucky, and the teachers often get off with a much lighter sentence.

          3. Don Shor

            It is inappropriate that he be considered “lucky,” but until we change attitudes about male v. female sexuality that won’t change. But the sentences are no longer as disproportionate, if the publicized cases are any indication.

        2. Tia Will

          South of Davis

          “have you EVER read of a SINGLE story a college man who was “date raped” by a woman?”

          Well, that is rather telling in itself don’t you think ?

  3. Anon

    My guess is case law will end up “interpreting” this poorly crafted legislation, which is a legal minefield, if it is not thrown out altogether. I understand the intent here – to try and address date rape of drunk female students for example. But unfortunately I suspect it is going to have the opposite effect of the one intended, to try and keep girls safer. What it will end up doing is giving young women a false sense of security that they can attend a frat party, get bombed out of their skull with alcohol, and now trust they won’t be molested because of this new law. I also suspect that young woman who are date raped will be no less reluctant to come forward and press charges under this new law.

    To some extent I agree with Frankly, when he advises young men to stay away from having indiscriminate sex with girls. That should be a message we send to all young adults of both sexes, for many reasons (pregnancy, STDs, emotional damage). It is very difficult to raise children in today’s permissive society, where sex is advertised everywhere and casual sex is seen as no big deal. The reality is that unfettered sex is fraught with dangers, and responsibilities that can effect a person for a lifetime.

    1. Davis Progressive

      “To some extent I agree with Frankly, when he advises young men to stay away from having indiscriminate sex with girls.”

      or if they do, make sure they can legally cover themselves.

    2. TrueBlueDevil

      Date rape? Are they any young people who still go on dates? I thought they just sent midnight sexts, and gave / received “Bill Clinton’s” at partys?

    3. Tia Will

      Anon
      f”The reality is that unfettered sex is fraught with dangers, and responsibilities that can effect a person for a lifetime.”

      With this, I agree wholeheartedly as someone who has spent a large portion of my career counseling women on these dangers and the best ways of mitigation. Unfortunately, our society still has a double standard for male and female behavior. This is seen in the reality that the only statistically effective means of contraception is for women, because after all, that is our exclusive responsibility…..right ?
      And it is certainly our fault if we get pregnancy or get an STD because after all, we should have just said “no”…..right ? Regardless of how much social pressure the male has applied …….right ?
      I have very strong feelings in this are because I still hear these kind of lame excuses from male doctors who believe that contraception and STD prevention are “women’s issues” !

      1. TrueBlueDevil

        Condoms work quite well most (not all) of the time, with proper use. I’ve never heard it said that only women are responsible for contraception, but if a half-drunk female is going to have casual sex with a half-drunk man, yes, she bears more risk than men … but men also have risks.

        I notice a slant to your response.

        Men are equally able to catch STDs, right? And if there are offspring from a backroom hookup, if the woman knows the man or how to contact him, he will be responsible for financial costs for 18 years.

        1. Matt Williams

          Democrats are quickly turning California into the laughingstock of the nation.

          Hmmmmmmm TBD, the last time you were drunk and attempted to “properly use” a condom, how effective were your actions? How proper were they? Did you ask your partner to help you ensure that you were properly using the condom?

      2. South of Davis

        Tia (yet again) writes:

        > Unfortunately, our society still has a double standard
        > for male and female behavior.

        Sure there are “some people” that think it is fine for a guys to sleep with a different girl every week while this is not OK for girls but it is not “our society” and in reality we probably have more GOP voters in Davis than people think this way.

        > I still hear these kind of lame excuses from male doctors who believe
        > that contraception and STD prevention are “women’s issues” !

        Do you really hear many male doctors tell guys not to wear a condom because “contraception and STD prevention are “women’s issues”? If you do why not name them and call them out. I have never heard (or heard of) any MD (male or female) that didn’t tell guys that didn’t want to have kids (or get a STD) to wear a condom EVERY time they had sex…

  4. TrueBlueDevil

    So the State is $1 Trillion in debt, we have pension obligations out the ear, we don’t have water, and the Governor is signing a wishy washy liberal bill?

    I can promise you he doesn’t read much Camille Paglia, a firebrand Ivy League non-conformist lesbian writer.

    “Wildly overblown claims about an epidemic of sexual assaults on American campuses are obscuring the true danger to young women, too often distracted by cellphones or iPods in public places: the ancient sex crime of abduction and murder. Despite hysterical propaganda about our “rape culture,” the majority of campus incidents being carelessly described as sexual assault are not felonious rape (involving force or drugs) but oafish hookup melodramas, arising from mixed signals and imprudence on both sides.

    “Colleges should stick to academics and stop their infantilizing supervision of students’ dating lives, an authoritarian intrusion that borders on violation of civil liberties. Real crimes should be reported to the police, not to haphazard and ill-trained campus grievance committees.”

    http://time.com/3444749/camille-paglia-the-modern-campus-cannot-comprehend-evil/

    1. Matt Williams

      Democrats are quickly turning California into the laughingstock of the nation.

      By respecting the fact that unmarried women can get [u]pregnant[/u] as a result of sex they did not affirmatively consent to having?

        1. Don Shor

          My point is that you are behaving very badly on the Vanguard with your comments on this topic. I’m surprised to learn that you have two daughters. I would be more interested in their views on this topic than I am about yours at this point.

          Date rape happens. You and others here seem to be denying it. False rape charges also happen, but I think that you’ll find that is rarer than date rape. I can’t imagine why you would use the term “supposedly” both times you reference date rape unless you were trying to minimize its occurrence and diminish its significance.

          I urge you to treat this topic more seriously.

          1. Barack Palin

            I’m behaving very badly because I think this law is not needed and way over the top? Because I believe we already have laws in place that deal with this. That a woman saying “no” should be the law and that two people that willingly have sex with the possibility of one coming back later and saying the other person never asked for their permission is whacked. Is that why I’m behaving badly or is it that you just don’t agree with me?

          2. Barack Palin

            And that’s pretty much what I’ve been saying on here. I don’t know where you came up with your “behaving badly”?

          3. Don Shor

            With these laws we’re all going to know someone who was “supposedly” date raped.

            LOL, by that time they’ll be out of the mood.
            And all this time I’ve always thought that conservatives were the ones who were considered overbearing when it came to sexual relations. Who knew?

            Bill had better stay out of California. What is the definition of “yes”?

            Is the guy supposed to carry around a breathalyzer to make sure she’s not drunk and a tape recorder to show that she said “yes”?

            Heck, most times I’ve had sex with my own wife I could be considered to have broken this new law.

          4. Barack Palin

            First of all I’ve posted a lot of content on here today and now you’re just cherrypicking a line here and there out of context. Even with that, most of those of what you consider “out of line” posts just went to show the absurdity of this unneeded law.

    1. TrueBlueDevil

      A half dozen young teenagers (female) I know seem to push the envelop with hyper-sexual behavior, late-night texting (sexting?), watching pornography frequently, and even during class (thank you, iPhone). Some of this comes 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hand, but “hooking up” seems to be quite prevalent. The young girls are often the aggressors, all the guys have to do is send them a few texts, “friend” them somewhere, show up at a party and be “cool”, and the game is on. They don’t even have to ask them on a date, or take them to a movie. But must of them want a boyfriend, but they have no idea how to go about it.

      1. Davis Progressive

        i’m really concerned about the rise of neo-misogyny on the part of the right. the right really has a math problem and they can look at illegal immigration all they want but it’s hard to picture a coalition that excludes 60 percent of women, 80 percent of ssians, and 90 percent of hispanics and blacks winning into the future.

        1. TrueBlueDevil

          So you flipped from asking a question about the behavior of young women, to attacking conservatives? Nice jump. I gather you didn’t like the answer.

          Can you please provide the link which conveys that Asian-Americans vote 80 percent Progressive? Thanks.

          1. DavisVoter

            Here’s what AALDEF had to say about the 2012 election:

            “There is a range of Asian American political leanings across ethnic lines.
            In the Presidential Election, three-quarters (77%) of Asian Americans polled voted for Barack Obama for President and 21% voted for Mitt Romney. Support for each candidate varied by ethnic group, with a high of 54% of Vietnamese Americans voting for Romney, compared to 3% of Bangladeshi Americans.

            The percentage of Asian Americans who voted for Obama by ethnic group are as follows (from highest to lowest): Bangladeshi American (96%); Pakistani American (91%); Indian American (84%); Chinese American (81%); Korean American (78%); Filipino American (65%); and Vietnamese American (44%).”

            The variation by nationality is interesting.

      2. KSmith

        So, I guess these girls “deserve” what they get if they are ever “supposedly” date raped? Because porn and sexting. If this isn’t what you’re implying, please clarify.

        Quite a lot of stereotypes of female sexuality are being thrown around in the comments today. Really? You’re using these admittedly 2nd and 3rd hand anecdotes to cast these teens as “hyper-sexual”? Seems like a bit of slut-shaming to me.

        Has it ever occurred to any of you that if there weren’t a double standard for male/female sexual behavior, maybe girls/women who regret having sex the next day might not feel so ashamed and the (small number, as was pointed out above) false accusations of rape might drop?

          1. KSmith

            I have a fifteen-year-old daughter and am quite active in her life and the life of her peers. I have not noticed any particular “aggressiveness” with which she and her circle of friends pursue sex. Maybe you’re mistaking a clothing choice with sexual aggression?

            If you don’t think there is still a persistent double standard on how society views male and female sexuality, I would strongly suggest taking a second look. Males are still mostly valorized for being “studs,” while females are still slut-shamed for expressing sexual feelings and needs.

            You need look no further than the recent debate on contraception and the Hobby Lobby case. So many women back-pedaled and made sure to note: “There are tons of other health reasons why women take the birth control pill–it’s not just for contraception.”

            That basically sidesteps the issue that women (most women) want sex and don’t necessarily want to get pregnant, and yet I could count on my fingers the number of high-profile women in that debate that just said: “Women want to use the pill so they can get it on and not get pregnant.”

            I think this entire issue needs to start being addressed in the sex ed curriculum–a sex ed curriculum that is scientifically-based and medically-accurate–none of this “abstinence only,” everyone-spit-in-a-cup-and-see-who-wants-to-drink-it, purity nonsense.

            The sex ed curriculum needs to acknowledge that human beings–both male and female–are sexual creatures and what types of behaviors are age-appropriate. It does not need to continue to put any particular moral weight on sexual activities. The curriculum, however, does need to acknowledge the risks relating to sexual behaviors, and how they can be mitigated, and encourage people to wait until they are mature enough for engaging in as thoughtful a manner as possible in sexual relations.

            I would argue that after many years of this being a standard, we would start to see false accusations go down.

          2. TrueBlueDevil

            KSmith, you wrote: “I have not noticed any particular “aggressiveness” with which she and her circle of friends pursue sex. Maybe you’re mistaking a clothing choice with sexual aggression?”

            No, what I have seen is pretty bad. Links to pornography, kids watching porn in class, girls pretending to give blow jobs in class, and it is video-taped and put up on Twitter (vine) for the world to see. Links to graphic x-rated real-life pictures. Texts and re-tweets of graphic x-rated rap lyrics. Public spats and drama on twitter where the girls name names and name acts, for the whole world to see, but then they’ll tell the parent “why are you reading my private texts? Why ate you STALKING me, Mom?” Young girls photographed with their contraceptive of choice, soiled clothes, and same picture (with face) posted on the world wide web. Same teens the day before or after will post a letter from school, or a driving test, with their full name and address. Teens posting their friends phone number publicly for the whoile world to see, saying they are horny, and to “hit them up”.

            I am not implying that all young teens do this, but it is not uncommon, and they reference to things being a lot more racy in their blocked twitter account / tumlblr / Facetime. Typically when drama starts up, some will spill the beans.

            I think most of these young girls would like to have a relationship and love / friendship, but they only seem to think in one-week increments. Some like the attention and drama, and with these new “cultural norms”, they don’t know how to go about meeting boys. They ask me about dating as if it were 1925, and “courting” sounds like 1725. I think solid families, and diligent parents, can prevent some of this, but there are loads of pressures.

            Frankly, does this sound familiar?

        1. TrueBlueDevil

          No, I didn’t imply that. Over the past 4 years with contact with a lot of young people, I haven’t heard of a single “date rape”. I have heard countless stories of partying and highly provocative behavior. Smart phones are the nexus, but also lax / permissive parenting … I guess, unless parents think it is ok for their 16-year-old child to send naked pictures to complete strangers. (There is some program that allows you to send a picture which users *think” disappears in 5 or 10 seconds, but teens are so quick with their thumbs, some can supposedly save these “temporary” photos, which can come back to haunt the young person.)

          Not stereotypes. What I have witnessed ‘on the ground’ for 4 years. The primary school I have had contact with may be known as a “party school”, but lots of the kids got into top colleges. I’m not sure what word you think I should use when I see x-rated photos sent around – on publicly view-able web sites – like bubble gum was 40 years ago. I’d call it vulgar.

          I don’t think either sex should have anonymous sex with someone they just met 30 minutes ago while high or drunk or both, and if it was so natural and innocent, why do they primarily do it when they are drunk and / or high? And even if they decide to do so, I think it shows incredibly poor taste to post the pictures publicly. I know abut a dozen students who were prevented from going to the prom because they were passing around naked photos of one young girl (freshman or soph), and because she was under 18 and the school found out about it, they came down on them. Most parents have chosen to be oblivious to their children’s online behavior.

          Sadly, the same school puts out a provocative calender featuring half-naked male students! I guess the female administrators think this is cool?

          1. KSmith

            “(There is some program that allows you to send a picture which users *think” disappears in 5 or 10 seconds, but teens are so quick with their thumbs, some can supposedly save these “temporary” photos, which can come back to haunt the young person.)”

            And this, too, is a problem–the idea that nudity will come back to “haunt” you and possibly ruin your life.

            I’m aware of this application. I think you are referring to SnapChat, and you’re right: those images can be saved by tech savvy people.

            Unfortunately, with the rapidity with which social media and Internet applications have evolved, we’re kind of still in the Wild West as far as these things go, and parents do need to make an effort to be knowledgeable about what their kids are doing.

            The sad fact is that most parents raising kids now (Boomers and even some of Gen X) have a prudish attitude toward sex ingrained, and find it difficult and embarrassing to talk to their kids about these matters. As you’ve no doubt inferred from my responses here today, I’m quite liberal, but it still takes an act of strength to overcome my programming (as it were) to reach out to my daughter on subjects relating to sex. But I make it a point to do so, and monitor periodically her Internet activities, and make it a point to know her friends and what she’s doing.

            I think a lot of this passing around images is not so much that these kids are “vulgar,” but are expressing curiosity in the realm of sexuality, and coupled with the Wild West nature of the Internet and smartphone applications, it’s largely unmonitored and adults are perhaps too scared to dig too deeply.

            This digital aspect is really the only difference I see between the sexual atmosphere of the teens during my teenage years. I don’t even think the age of losing one’s virginity has appreciably dropped (but someone might correct me if they know more).

          2. South of Davis

            K Smith wrote:

            > Males are still mostly valorized for being “studs,” while females are still
            > slut-shamed for expressing sexual feelings and needs.

            Maybe you read different things than I do but I can’t recall reading anything that called Anthony Weiner, Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich or Herm Cain “studs” for cheating.

            > And this, too, is a problem–the idea that nudity will come back to
            > “haunt” you and possibly ruin your life.

            Do you think that it is OK for married politicians (or NFL players) to text naked photos (while wearing Crocks)?

          3. TrueBlueDevil

            I don’t think this is a social media problem, but fundamentally a parenting problem (often liberal).

            I think it is far different. I saw a special on PBS where teenage girls are having huge issues with drinking, and they can’t metabolize the alcohol like the boys can due to lower body weights. This runs parallel to the progressive / permissive / laizza faire attitude I’ve seen some parents express, mainly liberals. The funny thing is, then they wonder why their kids are flunking school, doesn’t have a job, etc.

            Children are being made adults before they are ready to make that jump. If a 21-year-old or 20-year-old wants to be wild, OK… but there are risks. I don’t think 16-year-olds should be messing with prescribed drugs, pot, booze, and sexting… sorry, call me old fashioned. Recent reports will also dovetail with this, their brains aren’t fully developed util they are 23, 25. When the child then shows up with a massive ugly tattoo, or has a DUI, or joins a gang… don’t come back and say “how did this happen”?

            I have heard at least a dozen liberal parents say “Why are kids so different today?” I then tell them the kids are the same, but the parents want to be friends with their kids, but don;’t want to parent! They are not watching out for the safety of their children. Here in this hyper connected society, they don’t have their friends phone number, or the parents phone number, so they have no idea how to contact their child when their cell phone supposedly dies at 4 AM in the morning, and they have no idea where their child is.

            You claim that the sexual exploration is more or less the same. I don’t think so. One huge change has been influenced by Bill Clinton, where young girls go to party’s and are offered or take up giving random guys oral sex… no date before, no date after, I don’t even think they have their phone number!

            My liberal friends aren’t prudes. They’re lazy and have fuzzy thinking. They want to be their child’s friend. Don’t get me wrong, I am not against sex… but I am pro safety. These activities aren’t safe. I know of a case where a young girl tweeted the address to a party, and 30 minutes later some gang banger showed up! Needless to say, valuables were stolen, including guns. Many parents don’t even know where their children are, set no curfew, and don’t know how to reach their child if their phone “dies”.

            Yes, they are vulgar, they call each other vulgar names (thanks, rap music), and their parents don’t teach them proper manners. Now thanks to the Moms reading 50 Shades of Grey, there are girls who have never had a boyfriend fantasizing about S&M relationships! It is age inappropriate.

  5. Frankly

    Since females, after drinking, apparently cannot be trusted to make a simple decision to have sex or not, we should have zero tolerance for them drinking any amount of alcohol and driving. Apparently all that work by feminists to demand equality has failed. By this legislation we make it clear that women cannot be trusted to make good decisions and therefore must be specially protected.

    1. Don Shor

      Since females, after drinking, apparently cannot be trusted to make a simple decision to have sex or not, we should have zero tolerance for them drinking any amount of alcohol and driving

      The law isn’t specific to females as victims. It is you and the most liberal advocates who are making that leap, which puts you in rather odd company of making gender assumptions. Jackie Speier got it right:

      Twenty percent of young women and six percent of young men will be victims of attempted or actual sexual assault while attending college. When these survivors do come forward, they shouldn’t have to prove their assault wasn’t consensual.”

      1. South of Davis

        Don wrote:

        > Twenty percent of young women and six percent of young men will
        > be victims of attempted or actual sexual assault while attending college.

        Using the 6% number and a school the size of UCD that means not a school day goes by when one or more college age men are not sexually assaulted just here in Davis (and on the campus of every other similar sized school in America).

        I’m wondering if Don has ever read about even one of these THOUSANDS of poor undergrad guys who were given booze and “raped” by the sorority girls that got him to come upstairs after the party…

          1. South of Davis

            Don wrote:

            > Do I really have to spell this out for you?

            Even if 100% of the gay guys at UCD are “victims of attempted or actual sexual assault while attending college” it still means that a dozen straight guys a month are “victims of attempted or actual sexual assault while attending college”.

            I’m not saying it never happens, I’m just saying that I think the 6% number is WAY WAY high…

      1. Frankly

        Her article was published in the WSJ and NYT… only the second one being vile as you say.

        But why not read the content and comment instead of using the standard dismissal tactic?

    1. Tia Will

      Frankly
      “will one day have sons”

      And I sincerely hope that they will teach those sons that they are fully as responsible as the female for the outcome of any sexual act. I hope that they will not wink at their son’s sexual behaviors while restricting those of their daughters. I hope that they will teach their sons to treat every woman that they encounter the exact same way that their son would like his mother and sister to be treated. As the mother or one daughter and one son, I was much more concerned about my son’s sexual behaviors than those of my daughter. The bottom line is that a man’s fertility is rarely threatened by his sexual activity. Not so for a woman. More critically a man is capable of inseminating a woman with every ejaculation, a woman is capable of becoming pregnant only once monthly. So given the statistical odds, whose sexuality should we be more concerned about ?

    1. KSmith

      I agree with your first proposition.

      Your “advice,” though, smacks (again) of the standard MRA MGTOW tripe. And yes–I have poked around sites like The Spearhead and Dalrock, etc., and they are vile.

    2. TrueBlueDevil

      First, on, I would tell a young man what I tell young women – meet someone at yearbook, or in drama club, or at the gym, get to know them, talk, and develop mutual interests. Let them get to know your personality, sense of humor and let things develop from there.

      Second, Frankly, notice how the Liberals have drummed this issue up 2 months before an election? This, and Furgeson… they are masters at this. But a woman gets beheaded in Oklahoma, and it is swept under the rug. Typical.

      1. Don Shor

        Obviously they didn’t “drum it up 2 months before an election” if the governor is signing the bill now. It is the product of the year’s legislative work, all of which is on his desk. He’s signing a lot of bills right now. That’s how the legislative process and calendar work.
        Also, nothing about the case in Oklahoma has been “swept under the rug.” It’s gotten plenty of media coverage. What it has to do with this Vanguard post, though, I fail to see.

      1. Frankly

        It is, but they laugh and say “sure pops”.

        Seriously, we are talking college kids brainwashed into a secular left orthodoxy… professed to by those free-love hippies of the 1960s.

        What arguments would you use?

        Morality? Right, but what doctrine? Secular natural law? Bees do it, bears do it… must be okay then, right?

        I could try with the business sense… that having sex with a female at this point in time in our march to further liberal collectivist enlightenment… is a bad business move… with 5-10 minutes of benefit for a lifetime of risk. But then the pop media take over… the stuff that is protected by the secular left as precious to them as the bible is to the pious.

        I am practical more than anything. Young people, especially young men, are raging with hormones as God intended them to be. They seek sex as a first or second priority among all their priorities.

        So legalize and regulate prostitution so it is safe and plentiful.

        Then young men will start ignoring the non-professional girls that dress like prostitutes and demand the right to change their mind the next day after having said “yes”.

        1. Matt Williams

          Pops, there is an easy solution. Have them wear a 15-20 pound prosthetic “pregnancy” 24/7 for a week or two. They will get a whole new appreciation of the risk that female participants are operating under.

          What moral imperative? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Since it is impossible for the girls to “do” a pregnancy “unto” the boys, until that changes, then the moral imperative says “hold off” from any unilateral actions until there is bilateral consent that procreation fills the do unto others as you would have them do unto you guideline that is central to building a family.

          God also intended that human beings use their reason … their brains. Having hormones override good sense moves us back down the evolution tree.

      2. Barack Palin

        Hey Matt, instead of just sniping at different posts on here why don’t you be useful and tell me how to post a picture to my profile. I have the same pic in either a JPEG or a compressed folder but for some reason I can’t get it to download. It always looks like it works but the pic never shows up. What do I need to do? You’ll love the pic, Don Shor will hate it, so that should be all the reason you need to help me post it.

        1. Matt Williams

          You use HTML markup code. I posted that code in a reply to Jim Frame last week. Send the image to me at my e-mail mattwill@pacbell.net and I’ll insert it into your comment of choice, or you can send it to Don. I believe his e-mail address is burned into your brain by now.

          1. Barack Palin

            Matt, Internet Explorer wouldn’t let me download the pic so I went to Google Chrome and there you have it. How do you like me now? I think the pic perfectly suits my screen name. Thanks for your help.

          2. Matt Williams

            I’m a little slow. It took me at least 10 times looking at it to figure out its provenance. My mind kept flashing to Ann Richards.

          3. Matt Williams

            I know, but it took me a long time to figure that out. Google images of Ann Richards. You’ll see where I was going.

  6. KSmith

    TBD:

    I’ll address some of your other points later, since you raise interesting issues (am short on time atm).

    “You claim that the sexual exploration is more or less the same. I don’t think so. One huge change has been influenced by Bill Clinton, where young girls go to party’s and are offered or take up giving random guys oral sex… no date before, no date after, I don’t even think they have their phone number!”

    If this is referring to “Rainbow Parties” or whatever, I believe that whole oral sex party thing was an urban legend and moral panic caused by a book that was released. See here for e.g.: http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/are-colored-bracelets-a-code-for-sex/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0.

    1. TrueBlueDevil

      No, I’m talking about “hooking up” and / or just giving random boys who go to a party a hummer.

      I should clarify myself so you don’t think I am some nut. I don’t think all of the kids, or all of the girls, act like this. But I have seen a solid number engage in behavior like this on a consistent basis, at eat 20 percent. Then there is another group that engages in these kinds of activity less frequently, or less publicly. I can’t be for sure since the older kids / wiser kids do this “in private” (on twitter, tumblr, instagram, or elsewhere).

      There also appear to be a large segment of kids who don’t engage in any of this. I have to say I rarely have seen any damning photos of Asian American students. (I do know that there are 3 or 4 who party, but they keep it on the down low.)

      The problem is when you have so many students behaving like this, it lowers the bar for the students in the middle. It normalized wild behavior.

      The parents continue to baffle me. I was recently at a friend’s house for dinner, 2 couples, and I was the only conservative. The other couple has their 15-year-old daughter call up and ask Mom if it’s OK if she has a ‘sleep over’. Mom & Dad discuss is, and the answer will be “Yes”. I discretely ask, “Do you have her friends number?” “No, I don’t, that is a great idea.” … then 2 minutes later, I ask, “Do you know where her friend lives?” Her daughter sounds like a great kid, but the parents had no idea where her daughter was physically staying the night, and didn’t have the friends number, or the parents number. What happens if her iPhone magically or really, shuts off? I don’t even call this conservative or liberal, just common sense!

  7. KSmith

    South of Davis:

    “Maybe you read different things than I do but I can’t recall reading anything that called Anthony Weiner, Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich or Herm Cain “studs” for cheating.”

    I think this is different because of the cheating situation. I wasn’t talking about people who cheat–just those that engage in sex. “Cheating” is going to bring with it its own moral weight and outrage.

    “Do you think that it is OK for married politicians (or NFL players) to text naked photos (while wearing Crocks)?”

    First of all, I do not think it’s OK for anyone to take naked photos wearing Crocs. 🙂

    But, again, you are adding the extra layer of cheating here. I think it’s fine for an adult to take whatever nude photos s/he wishes, provided they are not hurting anyone, and that the recipient is welcoming to this and of age. None of mine or anyone else’s business.

  8. DavisVoter

    Here’s the link to the law: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB967

    Just reading this statute, I don’t understand the role of the accused’s belief in the existence of affirmative consent. (a)(1) seems to say that affirmative consent is required and doesn’t say anything about the accused’s belief. But then (a)(2) seems to presuppose that the accused’s belief is important. Then (a)(4) says the accused’s belief is not a valid excuse under certain circumstances.

    I’m actually left unclear on whether a university is allowed to say that “I honestly believed s/he affirmatively consented” is a defense. I actually think that a university probably make this argument a defense in most circumstances. Perhaps the university just can’t allow the defense to be, “I honestly believed s/he consented, even though s/he didn’t and I should have realized s/he was too drunk to realize s/he was having sex.”

    Moreover, it’s not clear whether (a)(4)(A)-(C) establish circumstances under which the complainant can’t consent, or just circumstances under which an honest-but-mistaken-belief defense can’t be asserted. E.g., what if A wants to act out a fantasy in which B has sex with A when A is unconscious? One could argue actual consent in this case, and the statute seems potentially to allow for that. I guess B would proceed at his/her own risk with no honest mistake defense?

  9. Tia Will

    Perhaps the biggest contribution of this law is to suggest that one actually needs to “ask”. Maybe sexual activity has changed dramatically, but I doubt it. I cannot remember a single time when I had a pass made at me when the male involved actually “asked” in plain English whether or not I “wanted to have sex”. As I recall, I was either kissed or fondled in some fashion and he either proceeded or didn’t depending on how he subjectively felt about my response. Was I actively engaged in response ? Was I very passive and not verbally or physically demonstrative about what I wanted ? Or was I very definite either through verbally “No” in no uncertain terms or by physically pushing him away. Some were more assertive/ aggressive than others. I was never raped, but I was also rarely “asked” what I wanted. It was almost always all about what he wanted and up to me to assert myself despite the fact that having grown up in the 50’s I had been taught in my family that the man was in charge, regardless. Nice double bind for a teenager to be in.

    1. DavisVoter

      I don’t have a particularly well-developed view on the ultimate merits of the affirmative consent standard, although as noted earlier this particular statute (a) may have some drafting issues and (b) probably requires a lot less of universities than certain pearl-clutching commenters have assumed.

      Apart from the issue of the appropriate consent standard for university disciplinary action, it seems that it’s reasonable in the 2010s to encourage girls and young women to make their thoughts and feelings known without being asked in many contexts, including this one.

  10. tribeUSA

    Parents, advise your teen daughters to NEVER go to a party alone where there is alcohol, always go with at least one other girl friend or a trusted boy friend, and all leave the party together. My parents gave my sisters this advice when they went off to college, I don’t think any of these attractive sociable gals had any significant problems, they learned how to deal with rude drunken boors (and had a friend nearby in case things got out of hand).

  11. Tia Will

    tribeUSA

    I agree with this advise. However, nowhere in your post did I see you making any recommendations about advice to young men. This illustrates my point that our society tends to place the burden of appropriate behavior on the woman, when it should be equally shared. Perhaps I did not give you a chance. What would your advice be to the parents of a young man ?

    1. TrueBlueDevil

      Young men should also bring one (or several) “wing men” when they go out, and not drink to excess, and avoid shots (danger) and mixing. Eat a full meal before going out. These are the rules, break them at your own risk. Young men face similar risks in that when the booze and testosterone flow, young men can get very aggressive. Avoid the guys with attitude / thugs, and don’t stay out too late. Not much good happens at 1 AM.

      Unfortunately the way human biology works, there will be some horny, masculine, testosterone full men out wherever most women go, so in the end, yes, young ladies and women have to be careful. Leave early. Don’t hang around at a frat house or bar at “closing hour”, when half the drunk jerks will hit you up, or pose a risk on the road. I have had friends jumped in these scenarios. It ain’t pretty.

      Rape. I recall a fellow classmate in the dorms (UCD) one night had a date with an older, masculine upper classman. He was intense, scary, and he was in her room, and she was scared. We sensed something was very wrong, and we called the RA. The RA checked things out, but could have gone farther. The female student was scared witless, and was afraid to say anything for her hulking date right there, and the small crowd outside, I’m sure it was embarrassing. When I saw her days later, she was a shell of her former self. I often kick myself, and wish I had stepped in, but I was young, not overly confident, and didn’t want to butt my nose into someone else’s business. We called the older RA, and they backed off. I never saw the guy again.

      Twice I saw RAs back off when they should not have. Err on the side of caution.

      I saw two linebacker guys carry a woman out of a bar who couldn’t stand up and jam her into a tiny car at dusk. It smelled bad. Her co-workers stood there motionless, I had just walked up to the event with my co-workers, it happened so fast. I can’t believe they didn’t step in and take care of their friend. They weren’t going home to listen to Bach. By the time I did all the math they were gone. I was also worried about the race angle (they were black), so that also caused me to hesitate, didn’t want to be considered a racist. It still bugs me, it all happened so fast, there were dozens / hundreds of people coming and going. Why did her friends abandon her?

      In the years since I have opened my mouth or stepped into the brink a few times when I thought something was amiss, taking the side of caution, but those 2 instances still nag at me. To this day I don’t understand women who abandon their friends; and I don’t understand single people who schtup married people.

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