My View: The Cost of Raising Tough Issues

Microphone

It is perhaps ironic that this year marks the 10th year of the founding of the Vanguard because, in 2006, I learned what should have been the most valuable lesson I ever learned.  I began my involvement after I listened to disturbing comments, which came from councilmembers, about the issue of police oversight.

When Ted Puntillo stated, “What I want are police officers out there that are using their training and their instincts, I don’t want them thinking about oh somebody’s going to be reviewing what I’m doing.”

I remember meeting with a number of people after that comment and I believed that the community would back those who were seeking police oversight.  When I listened to stories about racial profiling and police harassment of people of color in this community, I was convinced that, if the public knew this was going on, they would be just as horrified as I was.

This is a liberal community, I would say.  All we have to do is raise the issue and the people will back us.

I was wrong.  It was an eye-opener.  And the attacks were mean and vicious.  One person wrote in a letter to the editor, referring to my wife and Dr. Jann Murray-Garcia, “Ms. Greenwald and Ms. Garcia apply their racist views to every possible issue that confronts them. They look at the world through their prism of hate. … The mere fact that they support numerous frivolous and hate-based lawsuits against the city should be enough to invite them and the rest of the Human Relations Commission to practice their trade in a more appropriate city. I recommend Johannesburg, South Africa.”

You would think the community would rise up against this veiled racism and put a stop to it, but, other than a letter from Paul Boylan, whom I did not know at the time, the response was silent indifference.

Just two years later, the community voted overwhelming (75-plus percent) for the first African American president.  How can you square the indifference to community members complaining about racial profiling and racially charged discussions in this community, with the overwhelming and enthusiastic support for the nation’s first black president?  I remember inauguration day and people celebrating in the streets – it wasn’t just tepid support.

I know there will be some who will say that the reason is because the former is a figment of your imagination, but talk to African-American long-time community members, talk to college students of color – heck, even the chief of police last week admitted there are problems in policing locally and nationally, and he spent two hours laying out how our local police are taking things like implicit bias training to try to deal with these long-standing issues.

No, there is a disconnect between the values of a community when the issue is at the national level and when the issue is plopped down in their face and in their community.

That has been my concern for ten years.  A citizen having support for affordable housing in general is clearly different when the issue is plopped down in their face and into their neighborhood where they have to address it, not just in principle but in fact.

There was a comment on the Vanguard last night, “I wonder if the Vanguard has gone too far in its coverage and has just facilitated the building of a mountain out of a molehill.   Instead of just addressing the neighbors issues about privacy, etc., we have people fearing rapists and kidnappers pouring into their neighborhoods, strangers hurling verbal attacks over backyard fences toward children, crashing property values, vague what-ifs, and more.   Meanwhile, the City desperately needs revenue. Our schools are underfunded.”

I get it.  I am very concerned about the need for revenue.  I am very concerned that our schools are underfunded.  But unless we as a community are willing to address not just land-use issues but human relations issues, I don’t see how we make progress.

On that line I want to really applaud what the Davis Planning Commission did on Wednesday night.  I feel that they addressed the real concerns that the neighbors have about neighborhood impacts and privacy by agreeing to go view the site so they can see first-hand how the hotel will impact their neighborhood – but at the same time, they very forcefully pushed back on other issues.

Commissioner Stephen Mikesell said, “I heard reference to a number of things that might individually or collectively constitute a nuisance – the visual impact of the hotel.”  In addition to noise, he noted that there are concerns from the neighbors about public safety or “bad actors being added into the neighborhood,” traffic and privacy.

“I think I heard enough to come to the general conclusion that almost of those really don’t rise to the level of being a nuisance,” he said.  “The one that was bothersome to me was, and was probably listed by 80 percent of those who opposed the project, was the subject of privacy.”

He said, “Privacy is a really sticky issue because even a residential development raises the issue of privacy because you have two-story buildings next to one-story buildings and it’s impossible to have a backyard that no one can look into.”

“That was the most strong statement that I heard from the community,” he said.

Meanwhile, Commissioner Cheryl Essex added, “I really don’t understand the concern about strangers.  I have to say.”

“At our best, we’re really an open-hearted community,” she said.  “We want to be a model … we talk about, all the time, how proud we are of our community and how we want to be a model and so many different ways.  To be a model, you have to show it off.  We’ve got one of the finest universities in the world here – we like to show it off.  We love strangers in our town.”

“I don’t understand the concerns about security in the neighborhood,” Ms. Essex continued.  “I think the hotel would be a real benefit to that.”

She went on to note a number of benefits to the city in terms of business as well as noise reduction from the freeway.  “I feel like it could increase security, so you don’t have to worry about arson in your backyard,” she added.  But she said, “I think there is a strong potential for privacy impacts to the neighbors.  I’m really concerned about that.”

Ms. Essex said she felt like they couldn’t move forward at this particular meeting because she doesn’t think “we know for certain what those privacy impacts may be and whether we have adequately mitigated them.”

I think both of these commissioners exemplify the need to take very seriously community and neighborhood based concerns about impacts, while pushing back very strongly on other issues that are inappropriate and do not belong in our discourse.

I think it is an open question whether the location for this hotel is appropriate, and that is an issue that the planning commission and ultimately the city council have to address.

At the same time, our community is increasingly expensive and we have to figure out a way to supply housing to those who are less fortunate to be able to share in the beauty of our community.

—David M. Greenwald reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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140 Comments

  1. Marina Kalugin

    Dear David,

    Those who have not walked in certain shoes will never understand.  I always enjoyed the column by Dr. Jan Murray-Garcia and her partner, the guy  – sorry don’t recall his name…

    I voted for your wife…I didn’t even know she was your wife…For some odd reason, I thought that the other Greenwald who was a council member was your wife…or ex-wife or something…

    I only met Paul Boylan on a comment on a mutual friend’s FB wall  a couple of weeks ago…

    Within days, I had already referred several cases to him…

    and perhaps he will agree to take on a case of mine…though actually it will be a “group case”…as it is never about what I live through, but what I see being done to others…

    The friend whose wall I posted a comment in response to,  is a friend of my sons  and we hadn’t talked in over 2 decades..  our paths crossed here on the DV… decades later…. in recent months..

    My stepson is a NJ State Trooper…he truly attempts to hold up the best of what you are writing about.

    As I have shared with you personally, although we are white, my family has had its run ins with Davis PD, Woodland PD, and I as a senior citizen with the Solano CHP…..just across the “border” from Yolo.

    Family, friends and I have all lived through so much corruption at various local agencies and especially at the police departments.

    I think that your eyes are being opened up each and every day …. and perhaps the eyes of others as many of us share, joke and go off topic.

    But, some of my favorite sayings lately include:   it is not the words that matter, it is the actions that count..

    and also, follow the money and learn the truth

    and, finally,   a FB friend shared this a day or so ago:

    Wisdom of the Id1ots
    By Idries Shah

    some of you will understand 🙂

    Of course, the scrubber may catch this….   there was not way to adjust the key word in the picture…

     

  2. Marina Kalugin

    bummer the picture didn’t come through…

    here is the saying:  ‘Until man – and his audience-  can hear the unspoken message, and forget the spoken one, he will remain in chains’

    *************************

    the above is from Idries Shah in Wisdom of the XXXXXXXXX

    for those who actually can hear the unspoken message………I know you will get this saying

    for those who cannot, I just ask you to listen for the unspoken messages…that is where the truth truly lies…

     

  3. Biddlin

    “No, there is a disconnect between the values of a community when the issue is at the national level and when the issue is plopped down in their face and in their community.”

    A symptom of NIMBYism, sir.

  4. Marina Kalugin

    nahhh….Mr. B…..this town is very much on the opposite of Nimbyism…the fact that some decades ago this town voted to mandate 25% of all new housing as “affordable”…. means that most here are inclusive rather than NIMBYs….

    and even just recently that was shot down as a state mandate only goes to show just how progressive this town has been and is….

    Of course, like Eileen and many others who have spoken out and participated heavily over the many decades, we consider the whole town our “backyard”…and want the best for all our family and friends….which even includes some developers, realtors, landowners and CC and Planning commission folks….

     

     

  5. Tia Will

    we consider the whole town our “backyard”…and want the best for all our family and friends”

    I think that Marina has this one right. I have been asked a number of times why I weigh in on issues that do not affect my home. The answer is that I consider Davis my home, not just my house or immediate neighborhood. I am not against all development. I am against development that does not consider or trivializes the impacts of a proposal on the pre existing neighbors .

    It would seem to me that the Hyatt developers are making a good faith effort to address community concerns as are the commissioners. It is my hope that the project can proceed ( or not) without the name calling and vitriol that have plagued some land use disputes.

    1. Alan Miller

      It is my hope that the project can proceed ( or not) without the name calling and vitriol that have plagued some land use disputes.

      Too late for that.

  6. Grok

    There is something wrong with this article. The first section regarding David’s take on incidents 10 years ago never seems to get connected to the hotel project.

    I get the first part. There were and still are real challenges for people of color in the US and Davis. Even though Davis is “enlightened” there is still overt and covert racism in the city. Even more problematic are the more subtle and often less self aware forms of racism that exist in a privileged community like Davis. But this article never ties these ideas to the hotel project.

    Having stayed at lots of hotels along freeways all over the country I have seen first hand how freeway adjacent hotels can draw bad actors. Stating that has nothing to do with race it has to do with freeway adjacent hotels. The article is missing a connection between the 2 parts.

    The headline, “My View: The Cost of Raising Tough Issues,” seems to support the idea that this article was originally about something more because the headline never gets tied in to the story. It is like the headline got miss attached to this story.

    David, what are you trying to get at here?

     

    1. Barack Palin

      David, what are you trying to get at here?

      I was wondering the same thing.  This same story has surfaced several times on the V because imo David is still bitter that the HRC was disbanded in 2006 and his wife was forced to step down as the Chair.  At the time most Davisites applauded the council for making the right move and stopping the divisiveness that that commission was stirring up.

    2. Alan Miller

      Yeah, The Honorable Grok, I had the same reaction.  To me, the following paragraph was the connection, and the logic behind that paragraph had me exclaim out loud in the voice of Stewie on Family Guy:  “Say WHUUUUT?”.  This one:

      Just two years later, the community voted overwhelming (75-plus percent) for the first African American president.  How can you square the indifference to community members complaining about racial profiling and racially charged discussions in this community, with the overwhelming and enthusiastic support for the nation’s first black president?  I remember inauguration day and people celebrating in the streets – it wasn’t just tepid support.

      The answer is so obvious that the paragraph need never have been written:  the vast majority of people are decent, and the number of actual a-hole racists is extremely small and do not define our berg.

        1. Tia Will

          but a larger number who look the other way which is part of my point here.”

          We just considered this point at dinner last night. A millennial friend and recent graduate of UCD who happens to be of Hispanic/Jewish background related a story about a recent encounter that she had while in an Uber returning from a party. One of the partygoers, not knowing about her Jewish heritage made a derogatory comment about this group. My young friend expressed regret that rather than confronting her, in the interests of not spoiling a nice evening, said nothing. This was also my response when my neighbor made her derogatory comment. Even those of us who abhor this kind behavior will frequently let it slide even when we know that it should not be tolerated even passively.

           

          1. David Greenwald

            While I understand your friend’s feelings here, a social situation is far more difficult because you are weighing the offense against the purpose of the function. My bigger concern is in political discourse. Probably thousands of people read the tirade against my wife, a lot of them were probably repulsed by it, but one person said something. That’s where I think the real problem stands. There is no fear of upsetting a social evening. Had I been in the Uber, I would have confronted the individuals but at a time after the evening.

        2. South of Davis

          Tia wrote:

          > One of the partygoers, not knowing about her Jewish

          > heritage made a derogatory comment about this group.

          It is interesting to find out what the “derogatory comment” was since in the past month my wife was called out for making a “sexist” comment when someone (a friend’s sister) overheard her telling someone else that she was going to be playing tennis with the “girls” and I heard a (black) guy called out for “condoning cultural appropriation” after telling a (white) guy that he had “cool dreds”…

          > Even those of us who abhor this kind behavior

          > will frequently let it slide

          If I’m walking down E street and I hear a guy make a racist comment I know that getting in his face and calling him an “a-hole racist” will not make him tell me he is sorry and rush off to join the ACLU so I just make a mental note of who the guy is so I never have anything to do with him again.  Tia may say that I am “letting it slide” since I choose not to get in the guys face but behind the scenes I’ll make sure that my family and I have nothing to do with the guy and make sure that people I know are aware that if they are walking with the guy downtown he is the kind of guy that makes racist comments in public and like me they may want to avoid the guy…

           

  7. Tia Will

    BP

    At the time most Davisites applauded the council for making the right move and stopping the divisiveness that that commission was stirring up.”

    Or one could rephrase this as “stopping the divisiveness that that commission was pointing out”.

    I will again bring up the anecdote regarding “the riffraff” using the North Star park mentioned to me by a wealthy inhabitant of my neighborhood. I could not find anything that the comment could have been directed at other than the color of the families skin, or perhaps that they lived in a nearby apartment complex geared to low income folks ( either of which would have been equally offensive to me). While we like to think that these divisions did not exist independent from the commission, this simply is not true of our community.

     

    1. Barack Palin

      I will again bring up the anecdote regarding “the riffraff” using the North Star park mentioned to me by a wealthy inhabitant of my neighborhood

      Please, an isolated anecdotyl comment in no way should paint our whole community as being racist.  There’s always going to be a few outliers.

      1. Eric Gelber

        Agree. A community shouldn’t be characterized as racist because of the actions of a few outliers. However, it does reflect on the community as a whole to the extent it ignores or dismisses racism by continually rationalizing it as the actions of a few outliers.

      2. Tia Will

        BP

        I said nothing about this anecdote representing out entire community. I clearly presented this as an anecdote not an indictment of the community as a whole.

        1. South of Davis

          Tia wrote:

          > I clearly presented this as an anecdote not an

          > indictment of the community as a whole.

          When Alan says:

          “the vast majority of people are decent, and the number of actual a-hole racists is extremely small and do not define our berg.”

          I couldn’t agree more.  Reading comments from David, Tia and Eric over the years I get the feeling that they feel that the “vast majority” of people are racist.  If I am wrong about this I’m hoping that all of them will tell us what percentage of the population they feel are racist…

    2. Delia .

      Tia, the same thing happens in Davis when folks  state they are against child abuse but look the other way in a supermarket or other public place when someone is slapping their child or telling their child they’re “going to get it” when they get home. I have intervened at least a half dozen times, over the years, often with my young children present. I followed a man at the farmers market one day, as he was clearly out of control, threatening his child. Others just pretended to look the other way. In Natomas, at a supermarket. I twice confronted parents who were truly at their wits end. I tried to calmly tell them, ” I’m a parent, too. What can I do to help you right now? ” as many others either looked the other way, or hurriedly le ft the scene. We all must risk our own safety when a child’s safety, possibly their life, is in imminent danger.

  8. Misanthrop

    Davis has always been a racist place. Just look at the no longer enforceable restrictive covenants on the deeds downtown. They were enforceable until 1964. Davis has, as long as I have been here, advocated for social justice beyond its borders, but, internally its been a place full of nimbyism of the worst kind where a person’s property values are used as an excuse for all sorts of distasteful behavior and outright bigotry often expressed on this platform by anonymous posters.

    As someone said to me about the Vanguard the other day, they wouldn’t recognize racism if it hit them in the face.

    David you write this but you allow all sorts of racism to be expressed here. Whining about it you only need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what your site has become.

      1. Barack Palin

        As someone said to me about the Vanguard the other day, they wouldn’t recognize racism if it hit them in the face.

        And as someone said to me not long ago “we sure do have a lot of race baiters in Davis”.

        1. Manny

          How is it racist to tell you what I get called on a regular basis?  Or being asked if I’m a citizen or where was I born?

          And moderator, you’ve now censored my post.  At least if you don’t want the words refer to the fact that they were racist terms describing Mexicans?
          [moderator] You are welcome to do that, as you have just done.

        2. Grok

          Manny, I agree with you. I have heard it and I have seen it. Racist language gets used in Davis. It happens less than it used to, but it is absolutely still present. Davis still has a ways to come. 

          For example – the Davis citizen of the year award is the C.A. Covell award. C.A. Covell was the mayor when Davis passed a resolution urging the immediate internment of people of Japanese descent. C.A. Covell argued that people of Japanese descent should be permanently excluded from the city. I am troubled by the fact that even today our Citizen of the year award is named after someone who applied overtly racist principals to City government.

          What has not been done in the article is show how this applies to the Rosecreek neighbors objection to a mid-range hotel behind their houses.

        3. Barack Palin

          And I’m glad you agree Barack, that what I was called was racist

          If someone called you those derogatory names then indeed it was racist.  But where do you come off bringing up those examples while at the same time using the term that some might find disturbing “privileged white people”?

        4. South of Davis

          Manny wrote:

          > How is it racist to tell you what I get called on

          > a regular basis?  Or being asked if I’m a citizen

          > or where was I born?

          My sister dated a Scottish born white guy for a couple years that legally came to America and became a citizen.

          He was often asked if he was a citizen and where he was born.  Were the mostly white people asking him this “racist”?

        5. Manny

          Barack – it is because you don’t have to deal with that on a a daily basis that gives you privilege but it also shields you from what we people of color deal with everyday.

        6. Manny

          South Davis wants to find a parallel but there is none.  It’s not racist if it’s not race based.  I have no accent.  I was born in the valley.  The only basis for the question is skin color.

        7. South of Davis

          Manny wrote:

          >  I have no accent

          FYI Everyone has an “accent”…

          I was local wedding this summer and my friend Maria (who’s parents were both born and raised in Mexico and who’s first language is Spanish) was talking to a friend Olivia (who was born and raised in Honduras) about a family wedding in Mexico where her Mexican relatives were making fun of her “—— accent”.  Olivia told Maria that she “totally has a —— accent” and Maria got mad saying “I do not have a —— accent”…

          [moderator] Could we please stop using disparaging ethnic terms? Thanks.

        8. South of Davis

          I don’t find that term starting with a G that many Mexican’s use for American’s offensive and as a Spanish Speaker who has spent close to a year of my life in Mexico it is often used in my presence by Mexican’s when introducing me to others “Hector, this is my ________ friend who lives South of Davis”….

          P.S. It looks like the “scrubber” needs to get to work since the term I used that was blanked in my post is the title of a book called “______ Justice” on the link below (and in many other Vanguard posts)

          http://www.davisvanguard.org/2008/04/commentary-serena-case-continues-to-illustrate-problems-with-yolo-county-justice-system/

    1. Don Shor

      As moderator, I am very much aware that there are a few individuals who believe that David or I should remove any comments that those individuals believe to be racist. Since we don’t do that, they believe they should have the right to come on the Vanguard and call people racists directly. Since we don’t allow that, they won’t participate and they go around saying things like

      they wouldn’t recognize racism if it hit them in the face.

      If you believe a comment is racist, I suggest you reply and dispute the content of the comment. If you want it reviewed, just click the ‘report’ link. I have saved some comments that were removed after our last discussion of this issue and will pass them along to the editorial board.

      1. Barack Palin

        I’ve often asked that the people on here who say posters post racist comments to please point out the racist posts.  They never do.  Maybe it’s because the “scrubber” has already removed them but I very seldom see racist posts on the V.  I think it comes down to some commenters are overly sensitive.

        1. Tia Will

          BP

          I think it comes down to some commenters are overly sensitive.”

          With you and or Frankly having the final say as to what is “overly sensitive” ?

        2. South of Davis

          BP wrote:

          > I’ve often asked that the people on here who say posters

          > post racist comments to please point out the racist posts.  

          > They never do. 

          Since you can search the Vanguard archives it should be easy for someone who says the Vanguard is full of racist comments to link to a list of them.

    2. Alan Miller

      a place full of nimbyism of the worst kind where a person’s property values are used as an excuse for all sorts of distasteful behavior

      Like voting for Measures J and R?

  9. Frankly

    small number but what you call a holes but a larger number who look the other way which is part of my point here.

    So you and others you know have felt burned before by the a-holes and you cannot let it go.  And instead of just conceding that the world will always be filled with a percentage of a-holes you have “progressed” to shaming others for not coming to your aid supporting your retribution project.

    Here are the problems:

    First, when you cannot forgive transgressions of the a-holes and move on, the a-holes win.  Failing to let it go also effects your present and your future because it effects your decision-making.

    Second, the shaming of others has gotten out of hand.  It is causing much more divisiveness and anger and social degradation than would any step forward (backward) in the irrational utopian pursuit of 100% purity of thought, care and acceptance of all people of any difference.

    Today racism has been reduced to be equal to that which is explained by the simple imperfections of the emotional and tribal human animal.  It has been replaced with bias against those self-anointed “victims” with a chip on their shoulder.  And in my opinion, that bias is not only justified, it is righteous.

    There are people that have a chip on their shoulder from the past.  They should get over it, forgive people for their imperfections just as they would want others to do the same for them and their mistakes and bad behavior, and move on.

    Science now calculates the odds that we exist in this 15 billion-year-old universe that we know of as being much less than winning the Power Ball Lottery.  We get about 4 twenties and some change in this life if we are lucky.  Crap happens to good people.  More crap is going to happen before we exit stage left.   Why a precious waste a day lamenting how we were mistreated by someone in the past?  Victimhood should be a crime… a waste of the most precious resource we are blessed with.

    Now back to the hotel.

    The neighbors have positioned them selves as future victims if the hotel gets build.  They already have the chip on their shoulder.

    I am biased against them.

        1. Frankly

          People tend to write about important experiences in their lives.  By denying him the validation of his, you don’t allow him to move on.

          Reasonable point.

          Is there a statute of limitations?  For example, should we support people in this day writing about the oppression and pain of slavery?  My Christian ancestors were persecuted by the Ottomans… can I go there?

          My parents divorced and separated when I was young, and I was bullied in school.  Maybe that is the reason I did not get accepted into that university I wanted to attend, and the reason that I did not get that promotion… bias against people that come from a broken home.

          I have a receding hairline… I am absolutely sure that has cost me in relationships and in my business success.  In fact, science proves it.  I should demand restitution for being hairline challenged!  Did you see the way that person looked at me with my exposed forehead!?

          I am tall, but my shorter brother should be livid at how short men are treated in this country… or men in general since they lack adequate access to victim status and the social benefits provided.

          Sorry, but I don’t believe it is in a person’s best interest to have their experiences and the experiences of their tribal ancestors perpetually validated.  At some point we just need to accept the sting and move on… or else others need to call us on our crap.

        2. Misanthrop

          There is no statute of limitations on anger as anger itself is not a crime. People get over things when they get over them not when someone else thinks they should be over them.

      1. Frankly

        A dirt track?

        Let’s stick to valid compatibles Odin.   How about a nice hotel?  I’ll take it!  How about a nice innovation park!?  I’ll take it!

        [moderator] edited

        1. Odin

          What you call NIMBYism, I call a proper vetting process to make sure the voice of those often unheard get heard.  Nishi was vetted and deemed inappropriate for the community thus was voted down, you’re just angry because you  didn’t get YOUR way.  I see someone not desiring to pay increased taxes in the same boat as your so called NIMBY’s.  How is it not selfish to desire to keep your taxes down in favor of commercial development?  I see little distinction and find few on here willing to go the route of increased parcel taxes as one solution to our revenue mess.  I’m not against the Hyatt, I’m just saying you can’t ignore the concerns of a community affected by it.

        2. Frankly

          Give me a freakin’ break.  “someone not desiring to pay increased taxes”.

          Can you acknowledge that we already pay the highest taxes?

          Can you acknowledge that I have repeatedly pointed out that I can afford the tax increases, but many cannot?

          There is great imbalance in Davis.  Our taxes are already high, but our local economy is less than 50% of what it should be given our population.

          edited we are chasing out the middle that every other freakin’ community on the planet with half a brain knows is the life-blood to the community’s sustainability and success.

          edited
          [moderator] Please stop broadly offensive characterizations and attacks on other Vanguard participants.

        3. Tia Will

          Frankly

          Well then, how about a “nice dirt track” next to your house. Maybe such as the ones that dirt bike enthusiasts use ? Have I successfully demonstrated that “nice” is in the eye and or ear of the beholder ?

        1. Barack Palin

          Yes Quielo, as noted below by the ignorant remark being taken as racist, it doesn’t matter if “dirt track” is racist or not, all that matters is if that’s your feelings and experience.

    1. tribeUSA

      “Today racism has been reduced to be equal to that which is explained by the simple imperfections of the emotional and tribal human animal. ”

      Yes, it seems to me this is mainly accurate; though there still is some of the residue to history when racism was more serious and was codified into the ‘Jim Crow’ laws in the south. It seem to me that all tribal and racial groups have a healthy (if moderated!) bias in favor of their own ethnic and racial group–the reasons for this bias towards one’s own group is that it helped to promote survival of ones own group over most of pre-history and history–we are all descendants of these proud peoples. Thus the Chinese know that their group is the best, whereas the Japanese know that they are actually superior, the Jewish people are the chosen best, whereas the Christians understand their higher religious discernment makes them more highly evolved in the eyes of God; prior to WWII many Germans considered themselves of a superior master race; and all other groups not mentioned had similar conceits–I personally can forgive their illusions and feel some pity for them; since due to simple ignorance and neglect in their education, they are not aware that the Irish (notably those of the Celtic bloodlines) are the most blessed and best of peoples.

  10. Grok

    I am growing increasing troubled by this blog post.

    The blog makes no attempt to tie historic problems to the Rosecreek Hyatt proposal. Is the intention just to create an innuendo of racism?

    If there are specific problems that need to be addressed, then write about them.

    The author has made several further comments relating to the first part of the story, but has yet to try to relate them in any direct way to the second part of the story about the Hotel project.

     

    1. Manny

      I see the connection – Mr. Greenwald seems to relate his own experience to the commenter’s comment about kidnappers and rapists and links it to the comments by the planning commissioners denouncing the sentiment and refocusing the conversation on privacy issues.

      1. Grok

        Manny, I agree that by placing the writing about his experiences adjacent to the writing about the Rosecreek neighborhood the author seems to relate his own experience to the Rosecreek neighborhood, but he has not actually written that there is a link in this article. I am troubled by this accusation of racism by innuendo.

        As David writes above “The only answer is to expose it and confront it [Racism].” So lets stop wasting time. If you and he think there is racism to the Rosecreek neighbors objections to having a mid-range extended stay hotel behind their houses then by all means tell the rest of us why.

        1. Grok

          You’re pulling his response to Misanthrop about allowing racists posts out of context, aren’t you?

          No, I am applying the principal he states above to the blog  post as a whole. David seems to be smearing the Rosecreek neighbors by innuendo,  which does not meet the standard he himself set of “expose it and confront it.”

        2. South of Davis

          Grok wrote:

          > David seems to be smearing the Rosecreek

          > neighbors by innuendo

          Or maybe he feels that most of the people living in Roscreek rally are racist.  It would be great if David can tell is his estimate of the percentage of racists in Rosecreek (who use “code words” like “strangers” to really mean “people of color”)…

  11. Bill Habicht

    There absolutely is a cost in raising tough issues. But that is what leaders do. When statements are made in public settings like:

    The city and past councils have already turned our community and that end of the town into our own Potterville with high density housing/low-income.

    And

    Bad like New Harmony (which was subsequently removed from a petition)

    And, from a white neighborhood member to a non-white speaker at public comment during the Planning Commission:

    Don’t worry. She’s just ignorant.

    Then there is absolutely an issue that needs to be discussed as a community. Racism and classism do not simply disappear by ignoring it.

    On a personal level, as a resident living in affordable housing myself, the first statement is offensive and not ok. And the second statement… It led the young mother to leave in tears. I went out to talk with her and, in her mind, the is no doubt the comment was racist.

    This is an important topic for us, as a community, to address. Thank you David for keeping it in the public eye. You’ll take some hits, but it’s important.

    1. Barack Palin

      Don’t worry. She’s just ignorant.

      This is a nasty and unneeded comment but how is this considered racist?

      Just another example of someone being over-sensitive to make it about racism.

        1. Alan Miller

          Her “experience”?  Wow, that’s quite a viewpoint.  So reality doesn’t matter, just be offended and it may as well have been racism.  I agree the comment may have been racially motivated, but none of us live in the a-hole’s heart.  Thankfully.

        2. Biddlin

          “It doesn’t matter what I think. It was her experience.”

          And here is what most of white Davis doesn’t get. They lack the ability to simply listen to what is said, without restating it in terms that don’t offend their sensibilities or rejecting it as “being overly sensitive.”

      1. Tia Will

        BP

        Just another example of someone being over-sensitive to make it about racism.”

        Unless you were there to witness yourself or watched the exchange from home, you really would be in no better position to say that it was  not racist as to conclude that it was. What this really is, is an example of your forming your conclusion based on your underlying view of the world, not what actually occurred.

        A full retraction of my comment if you actually did observe the entire interaction.

        1. Barack Palin

          Tia, it really doesn’t surprise me that you might see it as a racist comment too.

          So do you think the word “ignorant” should be scrubbed too by the V editorial board?

          After all if it’s now considered racist……..

    2. Alan Miller

      as a resident living in affordable housing myself

      You have enough money to invest in Trackside, and you are a member of a team of developers proposing a hotel, and you live in “affordable” housing.  How does THAT work?

      1. Marina Kalugin

        Dear AM, and others…only those who know how to “play the system”   and pastors and so on, can afford the “affordable” housing in Davis.

        As a single mother I made way less than the pastor/developer until I paid my dues and eked out a few bucks more, while working 24/7 as the manager of a large and most complicated and highest ranked on many rankings  (over 200 person, and constantly changing due to students coming and going) department.

        I would never have been able to “afford” any of the affordable housing …good thing I bought at the height of the first crazy bubble in 79….

        My sons didn’t “qualify’…they were part time students….and then later they couldn’t make enough for the cheapest “affordable” housing in Davis.

        As a former and current minister of two different sects, going  back to the 60s,  I understand how pastors and ministers can afford to live in “affordable” housing and also  be “investors”.. and also get all the perks and it is all legal per IRS rules…

        Those who are more interested in such matters are welcome to have some heart to hearts with their minister/pastor/rabbi/priest etc…

        I am sure this is all way off topic…and yet, when I answer honestly and openly,  because at least one enquiring mind wants to know…my words are scrubbed away…

         

  12. ryankelly

    I think everyone is missing the point.  A proposal for a hotel is put forward and the closest neighbors have some concerns regarding the assumed privacy of their backyards.  People then use this as an opportunity to bring up all sorts of unfounded fears and issues not related to the proposal – what if a disabled child is harassed by someone in the parking lot 65 feet away and separated by a City greenbelt, what if the hotel attracts rapists, kidnappers and murderers who will flood the neighborhood looking for victims, etc.  Activists from outside the neighborhood jump on the bandwagon claiming that they just care about our little burg, that the City, the owner, the developer are all working against the good of the City. Race is brought in as a factor somehow.   It rapidly turns into a circus here on the Vanguard.  What should be a planning issue for a piece of property zoned as commercial – one of the few locations – turns into something else.

    I see the connection with the HRC incident.  A commission received numerous complaints and recommends a solution then the response iimmediately ramps up to be viewed as an attack against the police and the fabric of our community.  It becomes unreasonable.

    1. Bill Habicht

      The issue still exists even if the hotel weren’t involved in the discussion. The comments embody a larger challenge for us as a community, and I guess I’d say that we have some work to do.

      1. Grok

        The issue still exists even if the hotel weren’t involved in the discussion. The comments embody a larger challenge for us as a community, and I guess I’d say that we have some work to do.

        Pastor Habicht, I agree with the sentiment of your post, however as I have posted elsewhere, it is very awkward that you are accusing Rosecreek neighbors of racism and classism as you are looking to build a hotel behind their houses.

        1. Alan Miller

          it is very awkward that you are accusing Rosecreek neighbors of racism and classism as you are looking to build a hotel behind their houses.

          Total coincidence, I’m sure.

    2. Tia Will

      People then use this as an opportunity to bring up all sorts of unfounded fears and issues not related to the proposal – what if a disabled child is harassed by someone in the parking lot 65 feet away and separated by a City greenbelt, what if the hotel attracts rapists, kidnappers and murderers who will flood the neighborhood looking for victims,”

      And ryankelly has, in my opinion just added to the circus like quality of the conversation by mischaracterizing the concerns of those who were discussing whether or not they would change their current practices of allowing independent movement by their children depending on the number of unknown adults in the neighborhood.

      Interestingly enough, I recently encountered a friend waiting in the parking lot of the Davis Diamonds waiting to pick up her child from the lesson. She expressed the thought that the neighbors concerns about child safety were over blown ( my word, not hers). When I then asked her if she would let her daughter walk if she lived in the house immediately on the other side of the greenbelt……her answer was “no, she wouldn’t”. I suspect that many who post here  in support of this project would have increased concerns if their child was going to be encountering many more people unknown to them during their routine day to day activities.

      1. ryankelly

        Tia, evidenced by the number of parents that accompany their children everywhere already, the idea that a hotel built on a commercial corridor will further restrict the free movement of children is unreasonable.  I’m not saying that the fear is not real. It just isn’t backed up by statistics and you serve no good purpose by feeding the fear.   Children of my generation experienced way more freedom than today’s children, yet the environment is no more dangerous.

        1. Tia Will

          ryankelly

           It just isn’t backed up by statistics and you serve no good purpose by feeding the fear.”

          I do not see acknowledging the validity of someone else’s concerns as “feeding the fear”.

          One aspect of this particular concern is being overlooked. When doing a risk assessment in medicine there are two major concerns. One is certainly the probability of an occurrence. The other, which has largely been absent at least from the comments of those who do not share the concern, is the severity of the outcome should it occur. While stranger kidnapping is a rarity, it would be life destroying. I do not think that we do ourselves a service when we consider only one aspect of risk.

        2. ryankelly

          Sure, it is.  If you acknowledge and support an unreasonable fear, you are feeding it.  If you had a patient that was fearful that they were going to die and it was remotely possible, but extremely unlikely, would you really not reassure them that they were not going to die?   Would you really tell patients that, in extremely rare cases, people die from their condition as a matter of practice. – just so they know all of the dangers that could be lurking? Would you really strike fear in your patients when absolutely unneccessary? If so, then yes, this is feeding fear.

          The presence of the hotel on the other side of the greenbelt will not change the restrictive nature of parenting that seems to be the current practice.

        3. Alan Miller

          While stranger kidnapping is a rarity, it would be life destroying.

          Also potentially life destroying is taking your child for a drive, yet people do it every day without a thought.

  13. Biddlin

    “If you believe a comment is racist, I suggest you reply and dispute the content of the comment.”

    Don will almost surely delete that response, though.

    Here’s what I think David is trying to convey: You all think of yourselves and your city as being progressive, socially liberal and inclusive. In practice, almost anytime you as a citizen are asked to act in favor of the common good, you will find reasons that the common good is too intrusive on the status quo.

    Everybody agrees that certain racial epithets are hateful, but unless they are directed at you, you are unlikely to confront the haters. And here’s the funny thing, I’ve always lived in integrated neighborhoods often, as now, being the minority ethnicity and I’ve never been called —-,—-,—-, or —-. I was referred to as whitey a few times by my neighbors in Indianapolis, to get my attention, until they learned my name.  I’ve never felt threatened or fearful because of my color. I know that would be different  if I were not white.

    [moderator] comment edited. We don’t really need a litany of ethnic slurs, please.

    1. Misanthrop

      I agree. The problem is that Don is much more likely to take down a response to racism than the racism itself and that is problematic for David who claims that we need to confront the racism when it happens. And David, I have no doubt you understand exactly what is going on with racism and your blog but choose to allow your site to be used as a platform for it. As for not defending the racism to people like BP and others I often call it out when I see it but Don Shor usually takes it down. I’m not going to get in an argument with you BP or respond to you because doing so isn’t worth my time because you are not a decision maker at the Vanguard. You can deny there is lots of racist speech on here but that is your own problem.

      1. Odin

        I’d sure like to see the format change so entire conversations aren’t deleted.  For example:  “When someone calls me a [deleted: racial epithet] I get upset”  There is no need to delete the entire sentence if it means a loss of context.

        It leaves out what offends but leaves the point made intact.

        1. Marina Kalugin

          the owner and moderator have unique views as to what it off topic….whole conversations disappear when they think something is off topic….however most of the posts here included stories which are also offtopic…except for they are allowed to remain due to the mod/owners agree with the drift….

      2. South of Davis

        Misanthrop wrote:

        > I’m not going to get in an argument with you BP or respond

        > to you because doing so isn’t worth my time

        Funny how Misanthrop had the time to type a 150 word post but could not take 2 seconds to find and link to even a single example of the racist speech that he says the Vanguard has “lots of”…

      3. Barack Palin

        As for not defending the racism to people like BP and others

        For a third time, show me any posts that I’ve made that are racist.  Put up or shut up.

      4. Barack Palin

        You can deny there is lots of racist speech on here but that is your own problem.

        Sounds like it’s your problem Misanthrop because there isn’t lots of racist speech on here.

        Examples please.

      5. quielo

        From the Urban Dictionary which David likes to quote:

        problematic
        A corporate-academic weasel word used mainly by people who sense that something may be oppressive, but don’t want to do any actual thinking about what the problem is or why it exists. Also frequently used in progressive political settings among White People of a Certain Education to avoid using herd-frightening words like “racist” or “sexist.”
        I don’t know, something about SlutWalk seems highly problematic to me.

    2. Ron

      Biddlin:  “I’ve never felt threatened or fearful because of my color.  I know that would be different if I were not white.”

      Wow.  I certainly have, lots of times.  I also strongly believe that at least one physical attack occurred to me, because of my skin color.  (I’d rather not go into details, as it still is a painful experience.)  None of these experiences occurred in Davis.

      Hatred and fear based on racism are not a “monopoly”, held by one skin color/race.  However, I realize that there are still significant leftover effects/impacts, as a result of the history of (white) racism in this country.

       

  14. Bill Habicht

    The comments were raised in conversations about the hotel, but it is a much bigger conversation that goes beyond that specific project.  The decision about the hotel itself should be made apart from the comments and be judged based upon the merits of the project proposal.

    A race/class discussion stands on its own. I guess I’d suggest keeping the two dialogues going, but separate them now that the race/class issue has been raised.

    1. Grok

      Pastor/Hotel Develoer Habicht

      I agree with you on this point.

      A race/class discussion stands on its own. I guess I’d suggest keeping the two dialogues going, but separate them now that the race/class issue has been raised

      This is indeed a serious topic and worthy of a 2 sided discussion. I doubt the comments section of the Vanguard is the place to do it.

      The broad brush smear by innuendo of the Rosecreek neighbors in mass in this blog post has done nothing to advance the conversation.

      I would also suggest that your multi faceted role as a pastor, self described community leader and hotel developer makes this a very awkward discussion at best. I would suggest that there are probably other esteemed members of the community that would be better equipped to raise these concerns because they are not attempting to build a hotel adjacent to the houses of the people they are accusing of racism and classism.

      1. Bill Habicht

        It’d be worthwhile to have an independent party lead the discussions. I’d be supportive of that. Would you be willing to reach out to the Phoenix Coalition or another org skilled in this type of discussion? Or we could draft a joint letter/request to the facilitator person/org.

        Looks like we’ve found something we can work on together. Excellent.

        1. Grok

          Pastor Habicht,

          I will consider your suggestion. To be clear though I will not take sides based on the limited information I currently have to go on.

          The hearsay and very limited quotes that I have only seen in this forum are equally troubling to the fact a Hotel developer may gain financial benefit by discrediting the people he is accusing.

          Please don’t read that as an accusation. It is quite the opposite. It is a statement about fairness.

        2. Bill Habicht

          Grok,

          Great. So it’s a go then?  I think this will be a step in the right direction. A neutral, skilled entity or person to lead the discussion.

          If the undecided hotel issue is the concern, I’d be open till waiting for the final outcome on the hotel first, then beginning the race/class dialogue. I’m open to whatever you and others think would be most beneficial.

        3. Grok

          Pastor/Hotel Developer Habicht,

          It does not feel appropriate to me that you as a Pastor and one of the Rosecreek Hotel Developers are pressuring me, a nominally anonymous poster on a blog to take formal action regarding hearsay and reported clips from an email I have never seen that you say exemplify racism and classism. Perhaps you would be better served to ask the people you are accusing directly to join you in the process. Clearly you and they have issues to work out.

          My apologies that I was not clear earlier, I do not plan on joining you in writing a letter because of the contradiction in your roles as a pastor and hotel developer who is making accusations about racism and classism where discrediting the people you are accusing may lead to personal financial gain. Again, not an accusation, an issue of fairness.

          I am however considering what to do about the accusations you make, the fact you make these accusations with potential financial gain from the outcome and the broad brush smear the Vanguard has made against Rosecreek residents with the innuendo in this blog post. Among those considerations is reaching out to the Pheonix coalition.

          1. Don Shor

            making accusations about racism and classism where discrediting the people you are accusing may lead to personal financial gain. Again, not an accusation, an issue of fairness.

            There is no universe in which that is not an accusation.

        4. Grok

          Don, David’s blog post today is structured in a way that paints the Rosecreek neighbors with a broad brush of racism. Despite my repeated requests for David to be specific, pastor/Hotel Developer Habicht is the only person so far who is making direct accusations against the Rosecreek neighbors. I have specifically expressed that I agree with some of the basic principles that Habicht expressed. For example

          A race/class discussion stands on its own. I guess I’d suggest keeping the two dialogues going, but separate them now that the race/class issue has been raised.

          I have also however pointed out that it is very awkward that it is one of the Hotel Developers that is making the accusations of racism and classism. I do not intend this as an accusation, but as a matter of being fair it is important to reflect that Habicht has a financial interest in the approval of the hotel, just as it is important to consider the accusations themselves.

          1. Don Shor

            It is an accusation, and it is part of your continuing pattern on the Vanguard on this topic and specifically with regard to Bill Habicht. What you are doing now is prevaricating as you make the accusation.

        5. Mark West

          Grok:  “Don, That is certainly not my intention. I am honestly trying to be very fair to both Pastor/Hotel Developer Habicht and the Rosecreek neighbors.”

          You continue to attack people by name while hiding behind your anonymity. So very upstanding and classy.

        6. Grok

          You continue to attack people by name while hiding behind your anonymity. So very upstanding and classy.

          Mark West, perhaps you did not notice that I am responding directly to Pastor/Hotel Developer Habicht’s posts here on the Vanguard, just as I am using your name to respond to you.

          1. Don Shor

            a Hotel developer may gain financial benefit by discrediting the people he is accusing.

            That’s a pathetic accusation that you made, word for word. No matter how much you try to dissemble now, it’s what you said. You could just retract it, but I doubt you will. Your pattern on the Vanguard says otherwise. I have little reason to believe anything you say about your motives, and no way to assess your veracity or honesty anyway. But your words speak for themselves.

        7. Grok

          Don – It is not clear to me what your motives are in defending the Hotel Developer who is making accusations that the people opposing his hotel project are racists and classists against the idea that it would be unfair to take a side based on the limited information available and the apparent conflict of interest of the accuser.

  15. Tia Will

    I agree Bill.( Post of 1:09)

    As a member of the editorial board, I look forward to seeing the compilation of comments that Don has put together. Perhaps a review of editorial board recommendations is in order.

    1. Barack Palin

      I can’t wait.  The last time their were changes they seemed one-sided and directed mostly at one particular conservative commenter.  I’m sure we can all count on it being a fair and balanced outcome.  Tia, can you tell us how many conservatives are currently part of the editorial board?

      1. Tia Will

        BP

        “Tia, can you tell us how many conservatives are currently part of the editorial board?”

        No. But I can assure you that there has never been a member who most would consider further to the left than me.

  16. Adam Smith

    My apologies that I was not clear earlier, I do not plan on joining you in writing a letter because of the contradiction in your roles as a pastor and hotel developer who is making accusations about racism and classism where discrediting the people you are accusing may lead to personal financial gain. Again, not an accusation, an issue of fairness.

    I am however considering what to do about the accusations you make, the fact you make these accusations with potential financial gain from the outcome and the broad brush smear the Vanguard has made against Rosecreek residents with the innuendo in this blog post. Among those considerations is reaching out to the Pheonix coalition.

    I’m confused about when and where Bill Habicht made any accusations against the neighbors or neighborhood.    Those comments appeared in the newspaper, were made in a public hearing and on the choice.org  petition.   I can’t even find where Bill alluded to the comments, other than to acknowledge they occurred and that it was representative of a bigger problem in our community.

    1. Grok

      Mr. Smith – I am referring to Pastor/Hotel Developer Habicht’s statements at 12:15 PM where he cites nonpublic emails and hearsay. These statements clearly cast the Rosecreek neighbors in a bad light.

      1. davisresident

        To clarify the sources since no one else has yet

        The first quote is from a video of a City Council meeting, which I’ve now seen.

        The second quote is from an online petition

        The third quote is hearsay, assuming no one else heard the statement.

        Nonpublic emails aren’t referenced, at least from my understanding. Also absent is any mention of specific people or neighborhoods. In fact, it seems that Bill Habicht was suggesting that the conversation move AWAY from the project discussion and instead placed in a larger, more global discussion.

  17. Tia Will

    Reading comments from David, Tia and Eric over the years I get the feeling that they feel that the “vast majority” of people are racist”


    Since to the best of my knowledge, none of us have even come close to expressing the idea that the “vast majority”of people are racist, I am led to believe that this is something that you have essentially made up. Again one of those, “I know better than you what you think” statements of which I am so fond. The question about the percentage of people that I believe are racist is a bit ridiculous, but I will hazard a general estimate. The percentage is greater than 0.

  18. Tia Will

    BP

    Tia, it really doesn’t surprise me that you might see it as a racist comment too.”

    Another assumption about what I might think. I have never made any comment about it. I didn’t see it and therefore have no basis for judgement.

     

  19. Tia Will

    ryankelly

    If you had a patient that was fearful that they were going to die and it was remotely possible, but extremely unlikely, would you really not reassure them that they were not going to die?   Would you really tell patients that, in extremely rare cases, people die from their condition as a matter of practice. – just so they know all of the dangers that could be lurking?”

    You ask good questions. But my answers may surprise you. My answer is “no”. I have never reassured someone that “they were not going to die”. And “yes”, I have told every single patient that I have taken care of that there is a small but real possibility of death if I know that to be true.  Why ? The answer is simple. I am a doctor, not God. I can make no such guarantee. What I reassure my patients with is the statistical unlikelihood that they will die, the approximate number of times that I have performed the procedure safely, and my guarantee that I will do my absolute best to take care of them and their unborn child if applicable.  If there is another doctor in whose hands I believe that the patient will be safer, I refer rather than doing the procedure myself.

    I do not make promises that I cannot keep even in an attempt to reassure. I do not think that proponents of this project should be offering false reassurances either.

  20. ryankelly

    If my doctor told me that there was a real chance I would die during childbirth under their care, I would change doctors.  If I asked my doctor this question, I would expect an honest answer, but reassurance that this was unlikely – backed by statistics.  I wouldn’t want the doctor to absolve themselves of responsibility, if things go wrong, before they go wrong.  I want to know that the doctor is confident in their skill in bringing their patient through the procedure.    But that is me.  Maybe others want to go into it fearful for their lives.

    I understand better where you are coming from though.  Any risk, no matter how small or unlikely, has equal value to all other risks and should be avoided if able.  Unreasonable fear is justifiable merely because it is felt and deserves sympathy and a response to remove the assumed source of the fear.

  21. Tia Will

    ryankelly

    If my doctor told me that there was a real chance I would die during childbirth under their care, I would change doctors.”

    Any doctor who knows that there is a real chance that you may die under their care will either tell you the truth, that it could occur under any doctor’s care, or will transfer you to someone of greater expertise who will be able to lessen that risk. The doctor’s job is to present a risk assessment based on the situation as their level of training and experience determines that they see it, not to offer you false hope or reassurance so that you will stay with them as their patient.

    I understand better where you are coming from though.  Any risk, no matter how small or unlikely, has equal value to all other risks and should be avoided if able.”

    I hope that you do not believe that your second sentences is “where I am coming from”. I certainly do not see any risk as having equal value as all other risks. The risk of having a minor infection easily manageable with antibiotics is not equal to the risk of dying even if the patient has a bacterial phobia. It is the doctor’s job to help the patient assess risk in terms of both likelihood and potential severity. I would like to see the same kind of assessment put forth by those who propose changes which directly affect others whether their discipline is medicine or community development.

    1. ryankelly

      I believe you have stated repeatedly that you look at all issues through the lens of a medical doctor.  Outside of science or medicine, often the risk is a moral judgement and not a measurement of actual risk.  Of course the woman you spoke with in a parking lot would declare that she would never let her child ride their bike 65 feet down a greenbelt on their own.  Currently, this has been deemed immoral based on unreasonable measurement of risk and she would likely never risk disapproval.  The risk of the hotel is perceived and encouraged by others in the community – including you, but likely poses no actual risk to the children living in houses behind it.

      See this article: http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/08/22/490847797/why-do-we-judge-parents-for-putting-kids-at-perceived-but-unreal-risk

  22. Marina Kalugin

    and, I see the minions are at it again, and how much of this is really ON topic, right?   jeez…and because it is the usual bunch of cronies, they are given a pass….omg….really?

    I have already had my four hour nap and it is already Thursday where I am ….working away and taking some time to check in to find not much ever changes here…but once my UCD emails are finished, and my personal emails are done, and I have caught up with worldwide friends on FB, and everything is closed so I cannot make calls or do any real business, I check in here….nothing new, right?

    some of you, who have known me in my various incarnations ( and causes) since I arrived here 46 years ago, will know me as an activist foremost.

    If one learned lessons during marches with black friends in the early 60s, and even knowing Ms. Hearst and several black panthers, one will understand that an activist is there to pose questions, and stir up trouble

    (meaning inconvenient truths, and move on…and let others pull the strings….the others usually have more time or vested interests)….  or? whatever the reasoning is….

  23. Marina Kalugin

    a “seer” ?    I am happy you, hp,  read my mind, and presented Mr.Kopper, JD…..as I am now in that age group where the person is clear and the name escapes me, thank you for bringing up Mr. Kopper….some of the “sh@@@@” we are dealing with here, wouldn’t be going on if he were back on CC…..

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