Justice Watch: New Video in Mann Shooting Shines New Light

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New video released in the Sacramento police shooting of Joseph Mann shows the police attempting to run him over.  “F- this guy,” the officer says as the police vehicle takes aim at Mr. Mann in North Sacramento.  Seconds later, the officers exit their vehicle, and join in shooting Mr. Mann a reportedly 14 times.

By contrast, the video released in August was more ambiguous about the July 11, 2016, shooting.  That video, according to Vanguard reporting, showed Mann to be an unarmed, diminutive man wandering down the street and showing overt signs of mental illness, while being stalked along the way by four Sacramento Police Department patrol cars, while officers scream at him over loudspeakers. Officers can be seen running straight toward Mr. Mann and immediately firing a dozen or more rounds at him, as he stood still, without having made a single attempt to subdue him with less than lethal force.

Attorney Burris lamented that “as a result of the officers’ ‘comply or die’ attitude, agitated officers inexplicably left the safety of their patrol vehicles and unnecessarily provoked a close range confrontation with Joseph Mann.” Burris further charges that “non-lethal force was not employed, no beanbags, Tasers, or pepper spray, all of which should have been considered by these officers, who made no attempt to subdue Mr. Mann with non-lethal force prior to dispatching a firing squad.”

“When you take someone’s life you must show and stand by what you have done.” He later stated, “Mr. Mann did not get due process. He was taken from his family without due process.”


El Cajon Releases Video – Victim Had a Vaping Device, Not a Gun

The fatal shooting this past Tuesday has created growing unrest in the El Cajon community and elsewhere.

The video itself sheds little new light on what happened to 38-year-old Alfred Olango.  The problem that is both shots – one from a civilian’s cellphone and the other from a surveillance camera at a drive-through window at a taco shop – are taken from a distance.

The surveillance video shots the scene prior to the shooting while the second shows Mr. Olango first walking toward the  officer and then retreating, walking both backwards and sideways as the officer approaches.

With the two facing each other, a second officer appears, shots are fired and a woman can be heard screaming.

The original account read: “The El Cajon Police Department received calls of a man who was ‘not acting like himself.’  He was walking in traffic, not only endangering himself, but motorists.  Two officers located him behind a local restaurant in the 800 block of Broadway.

“The subject refused multiple instructions by the first officer on scene to remove his concealed hand from in his pocket.  Because the subject did not comply the officer drew his firearm and pointed it at the subject while continuing to give him instructions to remove his hand from his pocket.

“The second responding officer arrived on scene and immediately prepared to deploy a less lethal electronic control device while the other officer covered.

“The subject paced back and forth while officers tried to talk to him. At one point, the subject rapidly drew an object from his front pants pocket, placed both hands together and extended them rapidly toward the officer taking up what appeared to be a shooting stance.  At this time, the officer with the electronic control device discharged his weapon.  Simultaneously, the officer with the firearm discharged his weapon several times, striking the subject.”

“Any criminal conduct being pursued will be some time much later,” San Diego County District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis told reporters.

The man “rapidly drew an object” and placed both hands on it “like you would be holding a firearm,” police Chief Jeff Davis said.  It turned out to be a vaping device.  The Vanguard spoke to some police officials not connected with this case who said that a vaping device can look just like a gun barrel.

—David M. Greenwald reporting

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About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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28 thoughts on “Justice Watch: New Video in Mann Shooting Shines New Light”

  1. Tia Will

    About ten years ago, I was vetting video games that I would or would not allow my son to own based on their content. He had assured me that Grand Theft Auto was fine.  I  tried it out and was appalled at the lack of respect for human life and would not allow it in my house ( I was not so naive as to believe he would not encounter it in friends homes). However, I felt the need to be absolutely clear to him that this did not reflect my values, and that I hoped that he would not adopt those values.

    I never believed that I would see evidence of this same lack of basic respect for human life from those that we charge with, and pay to protect our communities. And yet, here it is.

    1. Biddlin

      “I never believed that I would see evidence of this same lack of basic respect for human life from those that we charge with, and pay to protect our communities. And yet, here it is.”

      Candidates with too much respect for other humans’ lives are culled before hiring. If you read the cops’ blogs, you will find that they generally don’t consider anyone who isn’t a cop “human.”

      1. Frankly

        BS.  And this is just rabid irrational cop-hating on display.  The ratio of bad people in law enforcement to the population of cops is SIGNIFICANTLY exceeded by the percentage of bad people in the general population.

          1. David Greenwald Post author

            He doesn’t, I have talked to a bunch of police officers today and none of them justify the Mann case.

          1. David Greenwald Post author

            I’ve seen a lot of videos, but the one that I posted shows the police trying to run over a guy before he was shot 14 times. That’s the case at issue.

        1. hpierce

          Most bad guys don’t pump 10-16 rounds into others… just saying…

          Or, you /we have to redefine “bad guys”… a super-majority of police officers never discharge their weapon except on the practice range…

          Dad was a medic, in the Pacific, in WWII… he was issued a 45… medics were not trained in gun use much more than hitting the proverbial broad side of a barn… but if you hit the bad guy with a 45 cal, the bad guy would probably get knocked down, if not mortally wounded… incapacitated…

    2. Matt Williams

      Tia, your comment above lends weight to the point I was making about the Reduced Density Student Apartment Alternative in the Sterling EIR.  Imagine you and your son were living in one of the 39 affordable units dispersed amongst the 1000 beds filled with 19-22 year old UCD students.  What proportion of those 1000 “neighbors” of your son would be playing video games like Grand Theft Auto as part of their regular life style?  Your hope that your son would adopt your values would be counter balanced by the example he would see all around him.  He wouldn’t just be exposed to it (like you described in your friends homes example) he would be immersed in it.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

       

      1. Tia Will

        Matt

        I see this quite differently from you. While it is true that some might be playing Grand Theft Auto, it is equally true that some might chose to provide community service by tutoring my son. Or there might be residents who would not mind him coming down to the court and shooting hoops with them. I am sure the they would have been much better basketball and lacrosse mentors than I was. I am not sure why your seem so relentlessly focused on the negative aspects of living around college aged students but do not seem to have considered that there might also be benefits from this association.

        1. Delia .

          I agree w/ Tia. Our neighborhood benefitted from a UCD student who immediately ran over to a neighbor to help her, and her disabled husband, when a burgler broke in very early in the morning.

          In general, I feel safer on a street with lots of activity, where people have a variety of work schedules.

  2. Frankly

    He had assured me that Grand Theft Auto was fine.  I  tried it out and was appalled at the lack of respect for human life and would not allow it in my house ( I was not so naive as to believe he would not encounter it in friends homes).

    Interesting.  I would not allow my kids to play it because of the game’s complete lack of respect for law enforcement and the glorification of crime.  Interesting how we both came to the same conclusion but for such different reasons.

    1. Tia Will

      Frankly

      I also find our different takes interesting. For me the central point was disrespect for human life, not specifically disrespect for the law, although that is certainly depicted. However, for me police are just as much human beings as are criminals. Disrespect for human life is the same in my eyes whether the perpetrator wears a uniform or has a badge, or whether they are wearing gang colors, or just plain street clothes. It is the attitude and act of disrespect for life that I am judging, not the relative societal position of the perpetrator.

      1. hpierce

        So, this is a change from your previous position that law enforcement should be held to a ‘higher standard’?

        I cannot believe (at least don’t want to, but it seems clear…) that Mr Mann was not killed by a ‘double tap’ (if a person needs to be “stopped”, unless there are very weird things going on), but fourteen bullet hits?  That comes across as just depraved, unless the ‘subject’ did the Energizer Bunny thing, and just kept coming and coming, even when shot.  Based on the numbers of “hits”, 2nd or 3rd degree murder by the officers comes to mind, given what we know now.

        Not even clear if any shots should have been fired… but fourteen?

        1. Tia Will

          hpierce

          this is a change from your previous position that law enforcement should be held to a ‘higher standard’?”

          No change at all. Please note that what I am referencing with regard to the Mann case is the apparent lack of respect for human life. I stated that I considered this lack of respect the same whether the individual was police or civilian.

          However, with regard to actions, the police are trained and paid as protectors which is not true for either criminals, the mentally ill, or just you average citizen. Thus, in their trained, protective, professional capacity, I believe that they should be demonstrating and held to a higher standard of behavior than that which we would expect from the general public.

          Does that help clarify ?

  3. Frankly

    the subject rapidly drew an object from his front pants pocket, placed both hands together and extended them rapidly toward the officer taking up what appeared to be a shooting stance.

    It appears to me that the police were more than patient and then their training kicked in.  It is unreasonable to expect them to be able to diagnose harmless crazy and deadly crazy in these types of encounters.  Just see below for what happens when the officer does not shoot first.

    https://youtu.be/k8-ycSkoYfc

    1. Tia Will

      Frankly

      It is unreasonable to expect them to be able to diagnose harmless crazy and deadly crazy in these types of encounters.”

      I am quite sure that if we had the time and inclination, we could post alternating episodes of when the police were actually in danger, and others in which they only believed themselves to be in danger.

      In the Mann case, I think the police had another reasonable alternative available to them. They were in a car…..he was on foot. There was no need for them to put themselves at increased risk. They could have followed from a safe distance ( rather than trying to hit him) , called for additional back up and hopefully created a situation in which it would have been safe for someone skilled in assessment of the mentally ill to assess the situation. Instead, they chose to put themselves at increased danger and then shot, presumably based on fear. From their own words, I suspect that this was essentially a hunting expedition for them rather than an attempt to keep him from hurting himself or others.

    2. Tia Will

      Frankly

      It is unreasonable to expect them to be able to diagnose harmless crazy and deadly crazy in these types of encounters.”

      I am quite sure that if we had the time and inclination, we could post alternating episodes of when the police were actually in danger, and others in which they only believed themselves to be in danger.

      In the Mann case, I think the police had another reasonable alternative available to them. They were in a car…..he was on foot. There was no need for them to put themselves at increased risk. They could have followed from a safe distance ( rather than trying to hit him) , called for additional back up and hopefully created a situation in which it would have been safe for someone skilled in assessment of the mentally ill to assess the situation. Instead, they chose to put themselves at increased danger and then shot, presumably based on fear created by their own actions.

  4. Sam

    Maybe the officer was confused. They teach you to use your police cruiser to stop people in cars that won’t pull over. Maybe he thought the guy was actually a Smart Car or something.

    That was pretty bad going after the guy with the police car. It does not prove if the shooting was justified or not, but I hope they are looking into that officers actions.

    1. tribeUSA

      I agree with Sam. I wasn’t aware that cops have the authority to deliberately ‘bump’ a suspect on foot with their police car (presumably there is no authority for cops to deliberately run over a suspect on foot with their police car; unless perhaps the suspect is in  the act of shooting bullets at the police car).

      I did see another short clip (last week) that shows Mann in a shooting stance with both hands extended outward in front of him holding some kind of device with a barrel (presumably the vaping device) and pointing it directly at a cluster of police officers on foot. That particular clip did make it appear a case of suicide by cop. However; this does not justify the earlier attempt to knock down the suspect with their police car (presumably this violates both police regulations and the law?)

        1. hpierce

          Checked the video… disturbing…

          Yet, the ‘majority of good cops’ know no more or less than we do… are you speaking out “publically” ?  Why do you expect them to?   I’d expect an officer on the scene, to speak out… are you a witness?  Then come forward with your account… if not, …

  5. tribeUSA

    Re: the apparent disrespect exhibited by the cops for the life of the suspect.

    Yes, I too did not like the ‘f..k him’ comment by the cop and the apparent attempt to knock him down with the police car. Why were the cops so angry? Were they simply frustrated that they had not been able to corner & catch the suspect? Or did something happen earlier, not shown in the video, that made it more ‘personal’ between these two cops and the suspect?  Either way, I don’t see how this attempt to hit the suspect with their police car can be justified. They seem to have lost their tempers and patience; and proceeded to act with reckless disregard, and yes lack of respect for the life of a fellow human (hopefully only in a moment of ‘blind rage’, which is of course unprofessional and unacceptable).

  6. Biddlin

    “Yet, the ‘majority of good cops’ know no more or less than we do…”

    BS, they know. They know the “bad” cops. They work with them daily, and allow them to continue on in their abuses, unabated.

     

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