Commentary: The DA – He Doth Protest Too Much

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Yolo County Public Defender Tracie Olson

Last Monday all across the state and around the nation, public defenders took to the streets marching for Black lives.  Following that event, ABC 10 interviewed Yolo County Public Defender Tracie Olson as well as Monica Brushia, one of her chief deputies.

Ms. Olson explained that the protests were “an act of solidarity to show that not only do we bear witness to all the injustices that we see not only to our Black clients, but it was important to show that we were united in a fight against what we see every day in our courtrooms.”

Then Mike Duffy asked the obvious question, “What kinds of disparities have you seen?”

Tracie Olson responded: “Honestly we see Black people go to prison for crimes that white people don’t go to prison for…On April 20, I looked at the jail population. We had about a little under 200 people in the jail, 49 of whom were Black. So that’s 25% of our Yolo County jail population is Black. Yolo County’s demographic population is 3% Black. So we have over an 800% over-representation of Black men and women in our local jail. So it is a local problem.”

She wasn’t pulling this stuff out of thin air—we were shown the data that shows exactly that 25 percent of those incarcerated that day were Black.

Here’s the thing to note—at no time did she say anything about the DA.  But somehow DA Jeff Reisig made this about him.  He got angry.  He got defensive.

He saw this somehow as a slight against the justice system as a whole, and he saw himself as the guardian of that justice system.

He said, “Yolo County Public Defender Tracie Olson’s recent broadside against the justice system in our county was inaccurate, irresponsible, and insulting to both prosecutors and the judiciary.”

To paraphrase Shakespeare, the DA, he doth protest too much and too loudly.

In pushing back so forcefully, he reveals his own vulnerabilities and insecurities.

To be perfectly honest, he should have said nothing.  It wasn’t about him.  It was an indictment on the system.

Another possibility is, instead of becoming defensive, he could have joined with the public defender.  As a friend of mine pointed out, he could have acknowledged that her recent interview raised some very challenging questions about our local justice system—and indeed the justice system in general—and discussed how police, prosecutors and judges contribute to the over-incarceration of Black and Brown people.

By doing this, instead of becoming a party of obstruction and a barrier to reform, he would embrace the inequity of the system, own it, and strive to change it.

But he doesn’t do that.  Instead, he does what he accuses Tracie Olson of doing.  At a time when emotions are raw, he attempts to dig in and defend the indefensible.

He writes, “Now, more than ever, we need the public we serve to have faith and reliance on the fair and racially neutral administration of justice.”

What, you say? We need faith in a system that incarcerates and kills a disproportionate number of Black and Brown people?  Really?  You are trying to argue that we have a racially neutral administration of justice?  Are you new?  Have you not been watching for the last 50 years with your eyes?  Have you not had your eyes opened by the last three weeks?

And then Jeff Reisig issues an implied threat: “I do know that she is wrong and I call upon her to immediately bring her allegations and any supporting documentation to the next hearing of the Yolo County Board of Supervisors.”

Think about that—like all but one public defender in the state of California, Tracie Olson is appointed by the Board of Supervisors.  Jeff Reisig is elected by the voters.  That gives him a power differential.

And then he calls on her to “apologize to the police, prosecutors, and judges you have recklessly and unfairly maligned.”

But has she?  The facts speak for themselves.  They are simple and stark.  Forty-nine of the 194 people in the jail on April 20 were Black.  The population of Yolo County is three percent Black.  That is disproportionate.

Jeff Reisig wants to argue that she is wrong.  But in doing so, he uses nuance.  His key point: “Ms. Olson ignored the residency of those inmates from her data; verified black Yolo County residents only made up approximately 10% of the inmate population.”

First of all, we have no way of knowing whether that is true.  But second, I’m not sure what he thinks that proves.  In the end, we have a disproportionate number of Black people in jail in Yolo County and, as San Francisco Public Defender Danielle Harris pointed out in a tweet last night, as bad as that is, San Francisco is still worse with a 6 percent Black population and 55 percent of those in prison.

The overall problem does not begin or end in Yolo County—it is a systemic problem where Black and Brown people are over-represented in the criminal justice system.

Across the state yesterday, her fellow public defenders stepped up to defend her.

Brendon Woods, the only African American chief public defender in the state of California, had her back.

In another tweet, he noted, “Instead of self-reflection and working towards racial justice, we get another bullying attack. Nowhere does the DA just state that #BlackLivesMatter & We know why!”

Ignoring his being overly defensive and going on the attack, the biggest flaw in his response was that at no point in time did Jeff Reisig acknowledge that the reason everyone is so upset is because we have a problem.  At no point does he talk about attempting to fix the problems.

Instead he demands that Tracie Olson apologize for being right and speaking “truth to power.”

And the fact is, she does it as an appointed public defender in a county with an all-male and mostly white Board of Supervisors.  That took real courage.  Fortunately for Tracie Olson, a lot of people had her back yesterday.

—David M. Greenwald reporting

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About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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68 thoughts on “Commentary: The DA – He Doth Protest Too Much”

  1. Keith Olsen

    200 people in the jail, 49 of whom were Black. So that’s 25% of our Yolo County jail population is Black. Yolo County’s demographic population is 3% Black

    Missing from the conversation is what percentage of the crimes committed in Yolo Co. are committed by blacks.

    1. Eric Gelber

      Missing from the conversation is what percentage of the crimes committed in Yolo Co. are committed by blacks.

      What statistic would you use to establish this? The number of arrests or indictments are not indications of the number of crimes committed if Blacks are more likely to be arrested than whites under similar circumstances. The number or percentage of convictions or incarcerations likewise may reflect racial biases in whether cases are brought to trial, the likelihood of convictions by juries, or the sentences imposed by judges.

      Tracie Olsen’s assertion was: “we see Black people go to prison for crimes that white people don’t go to prison for…” That’s a partly subjective determination based on the experiences of public defenders. It’s not going to be reflected in a statistical analysis alone.

      1. David Greenwald Post author

        “Tracie Olsen’s assertion was: “we see Black people go to prison for crimes that white people don’t go to prison for…” That’s a partly subjective determination based on the experiences of public defenders. It’s not going to be reflected in a statistical analysis alone.”

        That would be my subjective observation as well. We also know the drug statistics on usage versus arrest and incarceration.

      2. Keith Olsen

        I agree, all those things you cited are part of the equation.  But would you also agree that the percentage of crimes committed by any particular group should also be part of the equation?

    2. Richard McCann

      Of course blacks commit more crimes that are measured and punished in Yolo County–they are more economically desperate.

      But there’s two other ways to look at this. What’s the proportion of whites who commit white collar crimes that are not reported and/or are settled internally by a corporation or through regulatory actions instead?

      And which crimes create more economic and financial harm–white collar crimes or “conventional” interpersonal crimes? When I watch movies like “Ocean 11” I have to laugh because any set of criminals that smart wouldn’t be bothering with just a few million from a casino–they’d be running a hedge fund operating on the edge on Wall Street.

      1. Ron Oertel

        Of course blacks commit more crimes that are measured and punished in Yolo County–they are more economically desperate.

        Leaving aside skin color for the moment, how is economic “desperation” defined, and is it actually the motivation for most crime?

        I believe there are entire countries that are more economically “desperate” than any given community in the U.S.  But, which may not experience the same level of crime.

        Seems to me that there’s something more complex going on, than can be determined by any simple conclusion.

      2. Ron Oertel

        There are also people in the world who live with very little, but who are not going out-of-their-way to harm other people.  Some of them may not even view themselves as “economically desperate”.

      3. Alan Miller

        What’s the proportion of whites who commit white collar crimes that are not reported and/or are settled internally by a corporation or through regulatory actions instead?

        But those are ‘nonviolent’ crimes — and isn’t the progressive mantra that we don’t jail people for nonviolent crimes, especially in light of Covid-19?  This is one of the problems I have with that mantra.  White collar crime can be very destructive to its victims.

        And what about the proportion of black people who commit white collar crimes?  Or white people that commit black collar crimes?

        1. Tia Will

          Alan

          White-collar crime can be very destructive to its victims.”

          Yes, it can be. So my solution would not be to jail any nonviolent criminal. I would impose either complete financial restitution if that can be accomplished, or working off the debt when the crime is one against property ( either theft or destruction). Incarcerating either white-collar or street crime does nothing to provide resolution for the victim and may create another set of innocent victims, the family of the criminal who may themselves be thrown into poverty but are not recognized by our system as worthy of community outreach.

  2. Robert Canning

    And your point is?

    Let me guess, you believe that 25% of crime in Yolo County is committed by black folk? (Or at least something like that)

    IMHO people who lead with that kind of question believe that because there are mor blacks in prison/jail than whites/Hispanics must have been guilty of more crime that the other racial/ethnic groups.

    There are alternative hypotheses (and that’s what it is, just a hypothesis) such as disproportionate Sentences for blacks, disproportionate police stops of blacks, disproportionate arrests and pre-trial detentions for blacks, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

    Now, I don’t have the data on these issues right in front of me but given what we know about the disproportionate treatment of blacks by the criminal justice system I would say that if I took the time to go find it, these alternatives would most likely be true – even here in Yolo County.

    The notion expressed by your comment that Blacks in jail must represent the proportion of crimes by blacks in the community is just more evidence of false stereotypes held by some about the criminality of black people.

    1. David Greenwald Post author

      For example, it is pretty well established that blacks and white use and sell drugs at similar rates and yet incarceration for blacks is around 4 times higher than whites for that offense. The criminal justice system is disproportionate through out. And once someone gets into it, they tend to stay there.

    2. Keith Olsen

      The notion expressed by your comment that Blacks in jail must represent the proportion of crimes by blacks in the community is just more evidence of false stereotypes held by some about the criminality of black people.

      If one is going to do a statistical analysis one has to have all the figures at hand.  For instance, males represent 93.2% of the federal jail population and females only represent 6.8%, is that due to males being unfairly prosecuted or is that due to males committing more crimes?

       

      1. David Greenwald Post author

        There’s also a misunderstanding what the statistics mean. You’re making the same mistake here as Reisig. Disproportionality is not just about enforcement and prosecution – it’s also about the poverty and inequality caused by and fed by systemic racial injustice. That part renders your point, in my view, irrelevant. That feeds back into the criminal justice system by mass incarceration and aggressive policing.

          1. David Greenwald Post author

            You misunderstand what I noted. I did not say that statistical proportions are irrelevant. There is relevance in knowing that Black people are incarcerated at a disproportionate rate. What I was saying is that even if they are being arrested at their percentage of committing crimes – that does not change this calculation.

            I will also point out that given that given that half the murders go unsolved, we don’t actually know the real population breakdown. The fact that Blacks are arrested and convicted for nearly half the murders, may itself be an artifact of over-policing and incarceration.

      2. Richard McCann

        Keith O

        Are you saying the African Americans are genetically predisposed toward crime with a higher hormonal level that creates more violence? That it’s not possible that culture and circumstance has actually created this disparity? Please provide the scientific research that has been peer reviewed and published that backs up your assertion.  You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

        1. Keith Olsen

          Are you saying the African Americans are genetically predisposed toward crime with a higher hormonal level that creates more violence? 

          No, but you just wrote that.

  3. Alan Miller

    The facts speak for themselves.  They are simple and stark.  Forty-nine of the 194 people in the jail on April 20 were Black.  The population of Yolo County is three percent Black.  That is disproportionate.

    So you think it should be proportional?  Like . . . reverse affirmative action for jail time?  (would that be negative action or affirmative inaction?)  Clearly, the reasons for the racial disparities that cause certain racial groups to be, as a whole, more impoverished, need to be addressed by society; and clearly, there are laws — such as the oft sited cocaine vs. crack laws – that favor those with money; and clearly, justice favors those with money — as Johnnie Cochran said, “The color of justice is green”; and in some cases there may be outright racial factors, though those are more difficult to pinpoint as they often rest in people’s souls who work within the system.  But there’s a big difference between pointing out that these stats indicate there are problems in society and the justice system, and simply calling for the numbers to be ‘proportional’, and I’m not clear if you are calling for societal/systematic changes that will lessen proportional incarceration of some racial groups over time, or for immediate blanket equity between races on incarceration rates.  Care to clarify?

    1. David Greenwald Post author

      Here’s a question Alan MIller.  Do you think if we checks on May 20 or March 20 the proportions would have been markedly different?

          1. David Greenwald Post author

            If we pick a different point in time, do you think the percentage of blacks in the jail will be markedly different from the day she chose?

        1. Alan Miller

          > If we pick a different point in time, do you think the percentage of blacks in the jail will be markedly different from the day she chose?

          That is more coherent, but I’m still not sure what you are asking or why you are asking it, so I can’t answer.  Could you just make your point, because I’m sure there is a reason you are asking the question.

    2. Robert Canning

      Replying to Keith’s remark about proportion of murders.

      1) Homicide is a small percentage of crimes overall. See https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-1   Let’s look at the most common crimes in addition to the rare ones. Murder rate is 5 per 100K while violent crime overall is 363 per 100K, rape is 43 per 100K, and property crime is 2200 per 100K. In Davis, the police department gave statistics recently that showed that by far larceny was the most common crime in Davis. (Oh, and while we are at it, most murders go unsolved.  Just take a look at the clearance rates that the DOJ records for murder.)

      2) Looking at the crime statistics from a different vantage, the Bureau of Justice Statistics publishes standard crime victimization stats. From 2012-2012 Whites were victimized by whites 48% of the time and by Blacks only 23% of the time.  So what’s your point? Are you still willing to make the assertion that Blacks are in jail in higher numbers because they deserve to be because they commit more crime?

      I’ll repeat what I believe is the case: the demographics of those who are incarcerated are not just a function of who committed the crime, but also of biased policing, housing, wage inequalities, prosecutions — all that stuff that we liberals have been talking about for years.

      1. Keith Olsen

        (Oh, and while we are at it, most murders go unsolved.  Just take a look at the clearance rates that the DOJ records for murder.)

        I’m sure that holds true for both black murderers and those of a different race.

        From 2012-2012 Whites were victimized by whites 48% of the time and by Blacks only 23% of the time.

        So this helps prove the point, since blacks are only 12% of the population they’re still victimizing whites at double the rate of their percentage of the population.

        1. David Greenwald Post author

          “I’m sure that holds true for both black murderers and those of a different race.”

          But you don’t know that. And that’s the problem. The here is that the stats themselves are part of the entire error term in the system.

        2. Alan Miller

          I’m not sure why people are so surprised that half of murders go unsolved.  Sometimes criminals outsmart the police.  That’s always going to be part of ‘the game’.  And as for inner-city murders often going unsolved, doesn’t that have a lot to do with people in the inner-city not trusting the police, and therefore not engaging with police?  Also not engaging with police out of fear of being labeled a snitch and being murdered by the murderer.

        3. Keith Olsen

          No, if percentages held true then whites should have only been victimized by blacks 12% of the time, not 23%.  It was your reference, not mine.

  4. Matt Williams

    I believe the comment I made yesterday applies just as much today as it did yesterday … and it will apply just as much tomorrow. Here’s what I quoted and what I said.

    “Ms. Olson ignored the residency of those inmates from her data; verified black Yolo County residents only made up approximately 10% of the inmate population.”

    .
    I have no axe to grind in this issue.  With that said, why is an inmate’s residency important/meaningful?

    What is important to me is (1) where the alleged crime took place, and (2) where the court of record is.  A Florida resident coming to Yolo County and committing a crime in Yolo County that results in a trial and verdict and sentencing in a Yolo County court is no different than a Yolo County resident committing a crime in Yolo County that results in a trial and verdict and sentencing in a Yolo County court.  If the DA believes they are different, I look forward to hearing his explanation why they are.

     

  5. Jeff Boone

    For the period 2008-12-

    Persons in poor households at or below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000).

    Persons in poor households had a higher rate of violence involving a firearm (3.5 per 1,000) compared to persons above the FPL (0.8-2.5 per 1,000).

    The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks. However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.

    Poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000) had lower rates of violence compared to poor whites (46.4 per 1,000) and poor blacks (43.4 per 1,000).

    Poor persons living in urban areas (43.9 per 1,000) had violent victimization rates similar to poor persons living in rural areas (38.8 per 1,000).

    Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).

    https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137

    The conclusion should be that both poor whites and poor blacks should get their act together by modeling what poor Hispanics are doing.

    Or, maybe the root of all these problems of crime are simply economic.

    Based on the US census info, the percentage of people in poverty for Yolo County is 20.1% compared to 12.8% for the state.  However, I assume that the Yolo County number is inflated by our poor UCD population (Students are generally always below the poverty line because we don’t county mommy and daddy’s money and other government assistance… and the little darlings don’t generally earn much while in school.)  The median Davis income of $71,228 is more than the state’s at $65,923.  So this would indicate a larger income gap.   Yolo County has a 3% black population compared to 6.5% in the state.

    I cannot find any Yolo County data on economic class by demographic.  But it would be interesting to me to compare the actual crime and punishment data correlated with this data.  I would bet that poverty is a more accurate connection to crime than is race.

    1. Jeff Boone

      I’ll repeat what I believe is the case: the demographics of those who are incarcerated are not just a function of who committed the crime, but also of biased policing, housing, wage inequalities, prosecutions —

      I believe today that the law-enforcement and judicial bias we see is more about class-difference than race-difference.  The data supports this as white cops are less likely to kill black suspects than are non-white cops.

      all that stuff that we liberals have been talking about for years.

      LOL.  Sure, but completely lacking in self-awareness or intellectual honesty that elite liberals have been responsible for causing and perpetuating class-bias and then both fomenting and exploiting class-envy rage for political gain… while offering no viable solutions for reducing the growing gap in poor and working-class economics compared to the new professional class which liberals dominate.

      1. Robert Canning

        Let’s see, the pot calling the kettle black?

        Just substitute “conservatives/Republicans/some libertarians” for “elite liberals” in your statement.

        Lowering taxes will uplift the poor. Denying healthcare to people will make them want to work harder to get good jobs so they can have health care. Those Koch brothers, they really care about poor black and Hispanic people. Not.

        1. Keith Olsen

           Those Koch brothers, they really care about poor black and Hispanic people. Not.

          Koch brothers?  How did they come into this conversation?

           

           

    2. Alan Miller

      The conclusion should be that both poor whites and poor blacks should get their act together by modeling what poor Hispanics are doing.

      LOL (because were I to laugh silently, I may be, in today’s tense cultural nomenclatures, accused of violence)

        1. Ron Oertel

          How so?

          How is it that immigrants can arrive here, with many doing better (e.g., financially) than so many others (including whites – especially when considering “starting points”)?

          Given that there’s also been a history of discrimination against Asians (for example), as well.

          Also, how do you explain the difference that Jeff noted, regarding Hispanics (across income levels)?

          1. David Greenwald Post author

            Let’s think about this Ron.

            What legal barriers were there against Asians in this country after WWII? You can argue other than the Chinese exclusion act, which was aimed at immigration, and the Japanese internment during WWII, there have not been a lot of barriers.

            The Asians that have done well because society simply became less racist toward Asians than they were toward blacks or Mexicans. In 1940, California-born Asian men earned less than California-born black men. By 1970, they were earning the same as white men. BY 1980 – out earning them.

            Asians went from being paid like blacks to being paid like whites over that time.

            What happened was that society simply became less racist towards Asian men.

            This is a great article based on longitudinal resarch: link

        2. Ron Oertel

          Here’s the citation I was referring to, from Jeff (above):

           

          “However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.”

          This would suggest that violent crime has very little (direct) relationship to poverty.  (With “poverty” being a somewhat loaded term, as well.)

        3. Alan Miller

          What legal barriers were there against Asians in this country after WWII? You can argue other than the Chinese exclusion act, which was aimed at immigration, and the Japanese internment during WWII, there have not been a lot of barriers.

          Yeah, those minor annoyances!  Having your property/business taken away, life interrupted for years, houses burned to the ground (as happened in Winters in Woodland).  Nothing much to get past, really . . . how do you imply that with a straight face?

          The Asians that have done well because society simply became less racist toward Asians than they were toward blacks or Mexicans.

          Simply?  Simply became less racist?  How do you simply brush that aside like the WHY isn’t relevant — and that’s assuming your “less racist” statement is “true” — like that could even be measured or confirmed.  What do you mean by simply?

          Asians went from being paid like blacks to being paid like whites over that time.

          Sometimes best to ask questions like a two-year-old:  WHY?

          What happened was that society simply became less racist towards Asian men.

          WHY?  And . . . why “Simply”?

          And isn’t assuming that Asians are somehow ‘superior’ in some traits just as ‘racist’ as any sort of ‘inferior’ racial reference?  . . . i.e., it’s an assumption about a group of people by race that isn’t necessarily true, and/or true of many individuals within that group.

  6. Ron Oertel

    What legal barriers were there against Asians in this country after WWII? You can argue other than the Chinese exclusion act, which was aimed at immigration, and the Japanese internment during WWII, there have not been a lot of barriers.

    You can argue that, but I’m not sure that it’s accurate.

    The Asians that have done well because society simply became less racist toward Asians than they were toward blacks or Mexicans.

    Is that why?  Again, a simple answer that may not be complete.  (And, why bring up “Mexicans”, regarding this claim?)

    In 1940, California-born Asian men earned less than California-born black men. By 1970, they were earning the same as white men. BY 1980 – out earning them.

    Asians went from being paid like blacks to being paid like whites over that time.

    Cool!  Good for them.

    What happened was that society simply became less racist towards Asian men.

    Interesting theory, which suggests that at one time, discrimination was GREATER toward Asians, than it was toward African Americans. (Since they “earned less” than African Americans.)  Which DIRECTLY conflicts with your first statement, above.

    Could it be that cultural differences result in greater financial success?  (And ultimately this success leads to less discrimination as well?)

    1. David Greenwald Post author

      What matters here is racism. Racism creates legal and other barriers. Racism accounts for the condition of Blacks today and its lessening over time accounts for the rise of Asians.

    2. Ron Oertel

      Oh, and since Asian men started earning more than white men (as of 1980 – as you noted), is society now “discriminating” against white men?  😉

      Bottom line (I think) is that there are only partial “causes” discussed (depending upon one’s political “tribe”). Your conclusions are in that same “incomplete” category.

      Society (let alone a political blog) does not seem ready to have honest/complete discussions. It is too sensitive of a topic – especially right now.

      1. David Greenwald Post author

        Think about it this way. This conversation is about understanding two groups of people. One that has been successful. One that has not. You can believe as one explanation that internal characteristics account for that difference. That’s what Jeff and Keith are implying. Or you can believe that external behavior of the dominant forces account for those differences. In order to believe the former, you have to believe that one group is better than the other. You have in your assigned characteristics inherent in one group that account for the differential outcome. And itself is part of the latter explanation. It’s a feedback loop.

    3. Ron Oertel

      On  related note, I understand that “legal” discrimination (e.g., similar to affirmative action) has been used to discriminate against Asians, based upon their relative success as a group.

      Regarding your 12:46 p.m. post, I think you’re arriving at incorrect conclusions regarding the arguments that others have put forth. Especially this one:

      ” . . . you have to believe that one group is better than the other.”

      However, I think the causes are more complex than what one “side” puts forth. If there even is a “side”.

      1. David Greenwald Post author

        It’s definitely not univariate. However, I believe racism is a huge explanatory variable in this equation and a variable that factors heavily into the discussion of the explanation of Asian success.

        1. Ron Oertel

          I don’t disagree.  As you noted, current conditions provide a “feedback loop” for whatever one believes.

          Regarding one group being “better” than another (in regard to financial success or relative lack of violent crime), might that actually be true – regarding cultural differences?

          I’m sure you’re aware of the stereotype of Asians “studying more” than other groups, as a whole.  Might that actually be true?

          And, if one were to believe that some groups are “better” (however that’s defined), would Asians then be viewed as the “best group” of all? Is that a racist view, in-and-of itself? (Seems to be touching on it, at least.)

  7. Jeff Boone

    The Asians that have done well because society simply became less racist toward Asians than they were toward blacks or Mexicans.

    I think you just pulled that out of your arse my friend.

    There is no less racism against Asians.  In fact, it is on the rise.  Democrats have been milking that media-reported change since Trump was elected.

    And you are still stuck having to explain crime and economic outcomes for black immigrants compared to black Americans in the black urban community.

    I have a question.   In addition to de-funding and muzzling the police… a direction you seem to take a few decades ago after the Davis Human Relations Commission was disbanded by the city council for being 100% anti-law enforcement… are you in support of black reparations?

        1. Jeff Boone

          B, I think you need to ask      one     question     at       a

          time

          or you will get just one answerve

          Good point.

          David – do you support black reparations?

          1. David Greenwald Post author

            I’d be reluctant to support cash payments. Be supportive of a massive increase to education and redevelopment in cities.

        2. Bill Marshall

          answerve

          Alan, unless you have copyrighted that ‘term’, I intend to add it to my lexicon… BEAUTIFUL!  Like X 50!

          If you have copyrighted it, I ask for terms of a licensing agreement…

           

  8. Jeff Boone

    However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.”

    This would suggest that violent crime has very little (direct) relationship to poverty.  (With “poverty” being a somewhat loaded term, as well.)

    Ron, this is not accurate as written.

    From the report:

    At each of the poverty levels measured, there was no statistically significant difference between whites and blacks in the rate of violent victimization. Among persons in mid- and high-income households, the rates of violence were similar for whites, blacks, and Hispanics. However, poor whites and blacks had higher rates of victimization than poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000). Poor Hispanics had similar rates of violence as blacks living in high-income households (22.7 per 1,000).

    Poverty and crime are perfectly connected.  That cannot be disputed based on the data.

    1. Ron Oertel

      It doesn’t seem to be “perfectly connected”, based upon these statements you cited, nor do they analyze violent crime among Asians (at any income level):

      However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.

      However, poor whites and blacks had higher rates of victimization than poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000).

      Poor Hispanics had similar rates of violence as blacks living in high-income households (22.7 per 1,000).

      Also, if one were to examine and compare statistics within (and to) other countries, I’m not sure that relative wealth (or lack thereof) always corresponds with violent crime. For example, I’m pretty sure that there are “dirt poor” farmers around the world (who live in “poverty”), but without much violence.

      As an even more “extreme” example, there are Buddhist monks that live in “poverty”, but without violence.

      1. Alan Miller

        For example, I’m pretty sure that there are “dirt poor” farmers around the world (who live in “poverty”), but without much violence.   As an even more “extreme” example, there are Buddhist monks that live in “poverty”, but without violence.

        Those examples don’t really take into account inner-city conditions which are detrimental for other reasons besides simple poverty.

        1. Ron Oertel

          That’s right, and was (partly) the point I was alluding to.

          But, I’m not even sure that “inner-city conditions” (around the world) lead to violence.  They certainly seem to in this country, however.

          I believe there’s countries with inner-city residents living relatively peacefully (compared to inner-city conditions here), but still well-below “our” poverty line.

          Which causes me to believe that culture plays a prominent role, maybe more so than actual wealth levels.

          On a somewhat related note, there are those who make a “reasonable” wage in some other countries, but still end-up living in “coffin-sized apartments” (relatively peacefully, I suspect).

        2. Jeff Boone

          there are Buddhist monks that live in “poverty”, but without violence.

          We are talking racial groups, not funky sub-groups.

          Those examples don’t really take into account inner-city conditions which are detrimental for other reasons besides simple poverty.

          Now we get to the meat of the discussion.

        3. Ron Oertel

           funky sub-groups

          “Funky” – as in kind of “cool”?  😉

          Now we get to the meat of the discussion.

          I think I’ll stay out of that one.

           

           

        4. Jeff Boone

          Which causes me to believe that culture plays a prominent role, maybe more so than actual wealth levels.

          That is a bingo for me… except that I think they are joined at the hip.

          I believe that poverty has contributed to a growth in a black urban non-mainstream subculture at the very time that globalism and immigration and other changes has made the American dream much more difficult to attain.

          We had backed the ramp up in the late 60s and early 70s and then started pulling away.  The gap keeps growing.

          There are a lot of people angry about it, it is just that the black American urban community was already further behind.  The popular political establishment, left and left media (ironically all well set into the American Dream) make the claim that it is decades of previous racism is still responsible.   But clearly we have a bigger problem that spans races based on the protests, rioting the looting.

          There are two choices.

          1. Start building ramps and bridges for all those that have to play catch-up while doing some things to make it easier for them in general.

          2. Burn it all down so we are all more equal in misery.

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