San Francisco Moves Not to Hire Dirty, Dangerous Cops

Share:
Chesa Boudin speaking at a rally last August

By Metyia Phillips

SAN FRANCISCO – Peace officers with a known history of serious police misconduct cannot be hired by the San Francisco Police Dept. or the San Francisco Sheriff’s Dept. under a revolutionary resolution introduced here by SF District Attorney Chesa Boudin and District 10 Supervisor Shermann Walton.

Motivated by the murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis and to protect the citizens—especially people of color—from police misconduct, the measure urges the SF Civil Service Commission not to hire dangerous peace officers.

It is co-sponsored by Supervisors Hillary Ronen, Aaron Peskin, Matt Haney, Dean Preston, Sandra Lee Fewer, and Norman Yee.

George Floyd was murdered on May 25 by a Minneapolis police officer who used deadly, excessive force. The officer, Derek Chauvin, was seen on video with his knee on Floyd’s neck. Floyd, after saying multiple times, “I can’t breathe,” later died after 8 minutes and 26 seconds with the officer pushing down on his neck.

Chauvin already had 17 prior complaints, including police brutality complaints. The lack of accountability for Chauvin’s 17 prior complaints led to the untimely death of George Floyd—that is why, said DA Boudin, the resolution was created.

“Across the nation, we have seen the repeated failures of our legal system to hold police accountable for the violence, abuse, and even murders committed against people of color and especially Black people,” said Boudin.

“The resolution would hold San Francisco law enforcement to a higher standard of professionalism and prevent officers with a history of profiling or excessive force from working in our city. Our Black and brown community members deserve to feel safe and how can any of us feel safe when local law enforcement agencies are allowed to hire officers with prior serious misconduct?” he added.

The resolution urges the Civil Service Commission to require the disqualification of any police officer applicant with a sustained finding of serious misconduct, such as: excessive force; racial bias; discrimination based on race, national origin, gender, or sexual orientation; dishonesty related to the reporting, investigation, or prosecution of a crime or misconduct of another officer.

The resolution also “disqualifies any officer who leaves a law enforcement job during the course of a serious misconduct investigation, unless the officer has been exonerated.”

This is because many officers tend to resign from their law enforcement jobs during an investigation into their conduct, to end the investigation before a decision is made. And they then get jobs in other jurisdictions without anyone knowing their true record.

Supervisor Walton explained that this resolution is an attempt to stop the disproportionate targeting of the Black community and other people of color, noting, “Data demonstrates that officers who kill Black people, and continue to commit excessive force on Black people and people of color, have a history of misconduct and excessive force complaints. We cannot allow these individuals an opportunity to mistreat our residents.”

“This resolution is an important step in the right direction in preventing officers who have committed brutality, discrimination, and other serious misconduct from serving in San Francisco,” said Yoel Haile, Criminal Justice Program Manager at the ACLU of Northern California.

He added, “For far too long, officers who have committed egregious violations against the public while wearing the badge, including racist violence, have been permitted to hop from department to department and continue abusing the people they are supposed to protect.”

Scott Roberts, Senior Director of Criminal Justice Campaigns at Color Of Change, the largest online racial justice organization in the country, praised the resolution, explaining, “San Francisco District Attorney Boudin’s resolution is an important first step that acknowledges that violence should have no role in law enforcement and that the actions of police officers must have consequences. We must continue to push for systemic reforms that will protect Black communities, communities of color and all people in our country.”

To sign up for our new newsletter – Everyday Injustice – https://tinyurl.com/yyultcf9


Enter the maximum amount you want to pay each month
$USD
Sign up for

Share:

About The Author

The Vanguard Court Watch operates in Yolo, Sacramento and Sacramento Counties with a mission to monitor and report on court cases. Anyone interested in interning at the Courthouse or volunteering to monitor cases should contact the Vanguard at info(at)davisvanguard(dot)org - please email info(at)davisvanguard(dot)org if you find inaccuracies in this report.

Related posts

43 thoughts on “San Francisco Moves Not to Hire Dirty, Dangerous Cops”

  1. Tia Will

    Count me as naive. The only thing surprising to me about this proposal is that it did not already exist in SF. Does Davis have such a policy in existence? Does Yolo County? If not, these should be developed immediately.

    1. David Greenwald

      As far I know no one has such a provision – this is a major point of contention – Derrick Chauvin had 18 sustained complaints against him in Minnesota.

      1. Bill Marshall

        This is funny… no ha-ha funny, but ironic… the very rules that ‘progressives’ have put in place to protect job applicants in the public sector (public employers are strongly told by HR folk, to only give ‘name, rank, and verification of employment dates’ to prospective employers… under penalty of punitive action against anyone who discloses more than that… no glowing reports, no concerns/problems)… yet, I and many others, Davis and elsewhere, secretly were honest, forthright, with the implicit/explicit understanding such communication was “under the cone of silence”… all to protect the agency from lawsuits…

        Surprised Kaiser folk violated those ‘progressive’ rules to do what was needful… they were, in fact, violating the law… just as I and others did… someone cites HIPPA, to suit their arguments, yet espouses the violation of similar laws, when it suits their purposes… go figure…

        In this type of matter, I agree with full, honest disclosure… but the current law and practice goes against that… SF is at risk for their approach as to Civil suits… I hope they continue, in spite of that, to try and do the right thing… fully vet applicants… another area that might be considered in criminal/civil justice “reform”… going towards transparency…

    2. John Hobbs

      The the cops fired over the picnic day kerfuffle ended up thugging in Sac county, I believe. Because public agencies are so likely to be sued by former employees, most have a deep level of confidentiality. When someone made an inquiry about my boringly satisfactory employment, the city confirmed I worked for them between specific dates and nothing more. I could claim to have had any title or salary and potential employers would never know the difference. We hired a true sociopath who had been discharged from his previous job with a neighboring county because he had assaulted another worker who was too afraid to prosecute him. We only found out after he threatened a female supervisor who wasn’t afraid.

      1. Alan Miller

        The the cops fired over the picnic day kerfuffle ended up thugging in Sac county

        I read — I think it was in the comments section of a Davis blog – that forms of the word “thug” are now considered racist and can no longer be used in polite society.  FY . . . I!

        And so so so true about the confidentiality issues!!!!

  2. Tia Will

    I made the mistake of assuming such safeguards would be used. In my world, when hiring a surgeon, we did a thorough background check which, if the candidate made it far enough, culminated in a one on one conversation between our chief and theirs. This process weeded out several unsafe surgeons thus doubtless saving medical injury if not lives. I naively thought all positions in which lives are at stake: firefighters, nurses, pilots…and certainly police would be vetted similarly.

    1. Bill Marshall

      Ah… the balance between privacy and disclosure… a two-edged sword… tough, but necessary, to find the balance… as we speak, the law, particularly ‘civil law’, weighs heavily towards privacy…

      Note the lack of voluntary disclosures of things like office-holders tax returns… for 30+ years, had to do Form 700, a disclosure document of economic interests… as a public employee and retiree, a lot of my finances are public record (in CA, not a national requirement)… in my not so humble opinion, we should open that up to all public officials (even if their address is 1600) and private folk, particularly those whose firms get tax-payer dollars… directly or indirectly (via public taxpayer funded medical plans)… like Kaiser, Blue Cross, etc.

      Something about goose and gander…

      1. Bill Marshall

        as we speak, the law, particularly ‘civil law’, weighs heavily towards privacy…

        Unless, of course, you are, or have been, a public employee in CA… then, the door swings the other way…

    1. Jeff Boone

      I hope you need one to come to your rescue soon, and then maybe show them this post.

      I am sure that 99.9% of them will do their job professionally to help you even while they churn inside with disgust over your demonstrated hate for them.

      1. John Hobbs

        In 67 years, I have never been helped by a cop. I have seldom seen them do any good for working people. When my home was being destroyed by a neighborhood vandal, they wouldn’t even come to look at the damage, until I finally told the dispatcher that I was going to handle it myself. Then a officer in SWAT gear showed up to threaten me with arrest if I took the law into my own hands. That situation ended when another neighbor finally caught the vandal in the act and beat him down in the street. He was of course arrested, charged and had to plead to assault and battery for protecting his home and family. Over the years,I have been helped out of dangerous situations by any number of civilians, but never by a cop. By the way Boone, if you see someone committing a murder under color of authority and don’t intervene or even report it, doesn’t that make you as bad as the murderer?

         

        1. Jeff Boone

          Wow… you are 67?  I would have guessed 37 by your posts.  I thought age would help develop wisdom… I guess there are exceptions.

          Nice to have you confirm your anti-law enforcement position.   I really appreciate your honesty as I know there are many people out there with your beliefs that hide it.

          There is something broken in a progressive thinking apparatus in that you create a fantasy worldview by amplifying myopic emotive considerations and encourage blindness to other considerations… and the holistic and comprehensive conclusion is that you are highly irrational… and frankly are a safety hazard.

          For example, you advocate that black lives matter and thus we can do away with law enforcement because they are useless and bad… but you ignore that this would lead to a lot more black death.

          Like I said, irrational.   That is why you elected Biden.

          But thankfully the cops would still come to your rescue if needed.  They help everyone even people like you.

        2. John Hobbs

          “But thankfully the cops would still come to your rescue if needed.”

          That would be a first.

          “thus we can do away with law enforcement because they are useless and bad… but you ignore that this would lead to a lot more black death.”

          Lawless cops are not law enforcement, they are criminals.

          Here, I highlighted and underlined what I posted so you won’t have to tax your  limited comprehension.

          rebuilding from the ground up is the only way we’ll get real reform… Here would be the proper use of national guard troops to protect us from the deposed cops.”

          Since you declined to answer, I’ll assume you’re fine with cops covering up crimes by other cops.

  3. Alan Miller

    Peace officers with a known history of serious police misconduct cannot be hired by the San Francisco Police Dept. or the San Francisco Sheriff’s Dept. under a revolutionary resolution . . .

    THAT is revolutionary?  That’s not already a thing?    Ha ha ha ha ha, I kid!  Of course it’s not.  One of the main problems is problem officers transferring between departments and the ‘issues’ either being sloughed off, hidden, or not reported due to those lame laws that make an former employer liable for saying something negative about an employee (especially in the public sector).

    Until that is taken care of (I blame lawyers), this isn’t going to be solved.

    How is SF going to get around that very real issue?  And isn’t the real issue for NO police departments to hire bad cops?  Really, can anything more be done?  From the list given, it sounds more like a list of things that are going to cause witch-hunts and officers having to be very careful with speech, lest they say something that some fellow cop doesn’t like that gets reported — but doesn’t actually get rid of bad cops.

    And from what I’m hearing from people involved in the protests, what the protestors are demanding is for is the dismantling and defunding of police departments everywhere, the idea being they are too far gone to save.  I’m not quite sure what that would look like.

    1. Keith Olsen

      And from what I’m hearing from people involved in the protests, what the protestors are demanding is for is the dismantling and defunding of police departments everywhere, the idea being they are too far gone to save.  I’m not quite sure what that would look like.

      I do, you can see what it would look like on the streets of Minneapolis, NY city, Washington D.C. with broken glass, looted and burned out buildings.  People being accosted in their cars on the freeway, etc………………………………………………………………………………………………………. and a couple more dots for emphasis….

       

      1. Alan Miller

        That’s not what I meant.  I agree that the cops ‘backing off’ would lead to the sort of lawlessness you listed.  What I mean is hearing a lot of ‘dismantle/defund’ chants from protestors, but not a real, clear, practical path of a pathway to a new system.  There definitely needs to be change, but chanting for no more cops isn’t the solution.  They need to unite around a plan that makes sense and isn’t so radical that it alienates most of the country.  If their only answer is dismantle/defund – or if that is what red counties see – we get another four years of Trump.

  4. John Hobbs

    Prior to the current mis-administration the DOJ took over out of control police departments. I believe Antioch’s pd was under their control until recently. Since it didn’t make for good tv, Trump had his phony AG suspend the program. I have been telling you all for years that many people, including me, believe that dismantling and rebuilding from the ground up is the only way we’ll get real reform. The corruption runs too deep. US cops have demonstrated their intransigence and hyper aggression for decades. Here would be the proper use of national guard troops to protect us from the deposed cops.

    1. Jeff Boone

      Law enforcement is fine except for a few communities.  Bill Clinton fixed it from the 1980s when crime was out of control and more blacks were dying per capita and people were getting mugged, robbed, raped and killed in much greater numbers.

      What is broken is the public school system.  And that leads to the cops having a bigger problem with all those kids that the schools failed moving to a life of crime just to survive.

      If we are going to help the black community the best thing we can do is to destroy and reconstruct the public education system to a custom model that meets the needs of these communities instead of supporting the old broken system that is basically a unionized adult jobs program that funnels money to Democrat campaigns.

        1. David Greenwald

          Having been in courts and watched cases over the last ten years – no way. Jeff doesn’t have the first hand experience to make that kind of claim.

        2. Jeff Boone

          Well this is one part of the answer:

          https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

          I will have to dig for it, but I remember that there was some recent Obama era legislation passed that updated the method for collecting data for complaints against the police in DC.  As I recall, the data showed significant number of these claims from mostly blacks that they were being harassed by cops… ironically the numbers of these complaints were highest for black cops when controlled by the number of black cops.  Thus it strongly suggested that the problem was not white-cop-black-racism, but something else.

          I remember reading about this and it was that, and my own experience in these high crime high minority resident neighborhoods, that part of what we were seeing is the result of what Charles Murray identified in his book “Coming Apart” where he contrasted Fishtown and Belmont.  A divergence in cultural norms where a new educated professional upper-middle (Belmont) class saw their lives improve while the working-class people in Fishtown experienced a perpetual and ongoing decline.

          That Fishtown decline has also caused a decline in the moral line people had to scrap to just meet their lower level needs, while at the same time the growing socioeconomic status of the Belmont population included more free-time to pursue higher level self-actualization and transcendent needs… including being a virtue-signaling progressive activist that claims to advocate for the plight of the Fishtown folk.

          The cops are given one moral line of law. One set of protocol for dealing with suspects, etc.  The cops are generally consistent and fair for how they follow their standards, but in Fishtown there is a miss-match.  There is a miss-match with the common protocol because the moral line in Fishtown is lower.  It is lower because of the community need to get some money and do the things they need to survive.

          So when a cop busts a guy from Fishtown selling cigarettes on the street, it reflects as harassment impacting the normal flow of life in the neighborhood where the suspect is from.  Now in Belmont the people there would expect the cops to prevent people from illegally selling cigarettes on the street.  Belmonters don’t even smoke because they are so socially and environmentally advanced they ban cigarettes.

          So the way I see it… it isn’t policing that is the problem.  It is the government actions taken over the decades to make so many Fishtowns and so many Belmonts.  It is the gutting of our manufacturing base.  The idiot trade deals that allowed Mexico and China to grow their middle-class at the expense of ours.  The open borders that flooded us with competition for the declining number of good working-class jobs.  We basically cut the lower rungs of the prosperity ladder from these people and caused them to have to resort to crime to make a living and then expected the cops to fix it somehow.

          And now the very people that pushed those policies and live high on the hog because of them are saying the cops are bad and should be defunded.

          I have a better idea.  I think we should levy a tax on people based on their years of higher learning attainment and also if they come from a stable family with previous generations of college educated relatives,  and then we use that tax money to completely reform the inner-city education system and help bring industry and trade jobs back to the real American people living there.

          Meanwhile we hire more cops to police those neighborhoods.  Make sure that the cops live in the neighborhood and train them for good community policing practices.  And arm them with a specific protocol that matches the neighborhood moral line.

        3. Hiram Jackson

          Jeff B:  In a previous comment, you connect bad policing situations to public schools, which you also say are broken:

          “What is broken is the public school system.  And that leads to the cops having a bigger problem with all those kids that the schools failed moving to a life of crime just to survive.”

          A solution you propose for police is this:

          “Make sure that the cops live in the neighborhood and train them for good community policing practices.  And arm them with a specific protocol that matches the neighborhood moral line.”

          Would you also apply that same solution to public school teachers and educators?  as in ‘make sure that educators live in the neighborhood and train them to provide relevant educational experiences’?  or do you have something different in mind for schools?

        4. Jeff Boone

          Would you also apply that same solution to public school teachers and educators?

          There are three things that the education system is supposed to do (my list):

          1. Put needed (“technical”… for lack of a better term) knowledge into the nogins of the students so they can launch into a successful like of self-sufficiency.

          2. Teach them critical thinking skills so they can define and solve problems.

          3. Develop them emotionally and psychologically from children to adults so they learn to behave as well-functioning adults.

          Note that this is the same list I follow as a corporate leader developing employees to greater confidence and competence.

          Now, for each of these three things the education system is not the only provider.  Parents, family, neighbors, coaches, employers, mentors… etc… these other things come from the basis of social and economic capital within the community.

          The problem is that the standard education system is structured so it expects these outside actors to help.  And it has grown in this expectation over the years.  But in the poor urban neighborhoods, and also in poor rural areas, these outside components of a well-functioning social system are lacking.  The social system is generally completely broken.

          So, I would destruct and re-engineer the education system for these areas to compensate with the missing social system components to the extent possible.  This would not be your typical school.  It should have a lot of counselors, a lot of tutors from local colleges and can also make some money, high-tech tools to for a custom curriculum and pace, life-skills classes, industrial arts, trade-skills programs.  It might have bedrooms to house the students that don’t have a place to sleep.  It should have strict rules… maybe a dress code.  Violence of any kind results in the loss of privileges and rights and law enforcement to deal with it.  It should serve at least 2 meals a day if not three.  It should be open 24×7.  It might be a five-year high-school or maybe 6-years… to get the student to college prep even if it takes another year or two.  It should have a ton of athletics.  Ton of after school performance arts options.  Absolutely ROTC… providing a track for these students to enter the military if they want with a greater MOS selection than just infantry.  And I would have jobs at the school that the students can work at to give them pocket change.  I would put the education employees on yelp or some other customer service measuring platform and pay them a bonus for a high number of stars.

          Along  implementing policies to help rebuild the social system to own much greater social and economic capital.   The rebuilding of the social system is many faceted, but I would put in great incentives for business owners like Elon Musk to locate a Tesla  assembly plant in the poor section of one or more of these neighborhoods, I would fund extensive job training for locals to get the jobs.  I would provide very low interest loans and other incentives for Tesla suppliers to locate there.  I would beef up law enforcement, not reduce it… but I would require the officers to live in the neighborhood and I would boot camp them on community policing.  I would provide funding to several non-profit social services that would work in a public-private arrangement and work hand-in-hand with the police to extend services and help.  I would put the cops and social service employees on yelp or some other customer service measuring platform and pay them a bonus for a high number of stars.

          But I would be clear that all of this requires law and order.  Those doing crime that harms others will face justice.   I would implement restorative justice and I would extend it to convicts to do some community service to expunge their record.  I would have citizen involvement in giving feedback for police protocol.

          I would implement stop and frisk in these neighborhoods until gun crime fell to normal average levels.

          If you think about some or all of this, the problem is not the money for the programs… the problem is the resistance from the political factions,  the education system and the law enforcement system to accept these types of reform.  And the education system and police system resistors are public sector union entities with a history of contributing to the Democrat party.

          Joseph Campbell noted that successful societies have a continuum of successful human development that goes mother’s-child (nurturing and love), father’s-child (tough love with expectations and consequences) and then adult.  These kids are often missing at least one, and many are missing both.  The cannot develop into well-functioning adults without these missing pieces being provided in replacement.  The young student that does not have nurturing and love from his parents, needs it from others.  The older child that does not have the love of a father, needs it from a coach or mentor.  We cannot fix the social system over night, so we need to supplement.  My perspective is that the cops are put in the position of having to deal with so much bad behavior in these neighborhoods because the socials system is broken and the education system has not stepped up to help fill in the gaps.  The cops are tired and stressed and prone to mistakes.  Some are bad guys that need to be removed from the job before they hurt or kill someone.  But generally they are just your average neighbor doing a very difficult job.

          Note that I have law enforcement in my family… including a brother in-law detective for the Davis PD that took his life in 2008 at least partially if not fully from the stress of the job.  He was a very kind and caring guy, and he cracked over what he was exposed to every day.  Those that sit in judgement of cops are generally ignorant of how bad are the situations they have to deal with.  People can be malevolent beasts prone to the most vile and disgusting of behavior because they cannot control their emotions and cannot control their impulses.  Cops are the heroes that have to deal with that crap… and shame on those that make them a political advantage pawn.

  5. Keith Olsen

    With COVID and the crumbling economy people were already arming themselves.

    More than 3.7m total firearm background checks were conducted through the FBI’s background check system in March, the highest number on record in more than 20 years. An estimated 2.4m of those background checks were conducted for gun sales, according to adjusted statistics from a leading firearms industry trade group. That’s an 80% increase compared with the same month last year, the trade group said.

    And that’s only in March.  Since then we’ve seen the out of control rioters and the weak response from law enforcement so you can bet that gun sales are going to skyrocket.  The silent majority aren’t going to stand by and let the social justice policies of the left threaten their property and lives.  They will take matters into their own hands if it comes to that.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/us-gun-purchases-coronavirus-record

  6. Alan Miller

    OK, JH & JB or J’s H&B — I have a puzzler here in my mind, from your interaction earlier, and now have a moment to address.  From JH:

    When my home was being destroyed by a neighborhood vandal, they wouldn’t even come to look at the damage . . .

    This doesn’t sound like police over-reach, which is what I thought JH was concerned about, but rather sounds like lack-of-enforcement, which is something I’ve experienced of late, and is generally attributed to progressive policies that hamper police ability to enforce.  So I would have expected the above comment to have come from JB, not JH.

    until I finally told the dispatcher that I was going to handle it myself.

    Again, something I would have expected — vigilante justice, implied possible use of force by a citizen — to have come from JB, fed up with police lack of enforcement.

    I actually though JB would empathize with JH’s plight of the police not coming out to deal with a neighborhood vandal and deciding to deal with it himself, and having a neighbor pummel the vandal, and also I thought JB comment that the vigilante neighbor should not have been punished.

    But somehow I got my understanding of the beliefs of JH and JB backwards for this particular situation.  Gentlemen (#cough,cough#), where has my thinking gone wrong on this one?

    1. Jeff Boone

      I didn’t read all of what Hobb’s wrote due to my value of time, but I see know that he has been talking out both sides of his talking apparatus.

      Yes, the cops are constrained both from a lack of resources and liberal policies that tie their hands.  One of the biggest tied hands problems has to do with the homeless vandalizing business and scaring customers away.   In that respect the homeless are just like COVID-19 and the rioters and looters.

      The state passed the laws.  The crooks and thieves just make sure the value of what they take or damage falls below the line of what activists like David Greenwald think warrants police attention and a trip through the court system.   The cops are just complying with the politics that people like Hobbs vote for.

      1. Alan Miller

        > I didn’t read all of what Hobb’s wrote due to my value of time

        That’s an incredibly ironic thing to say, considering you wrote a 1,033 missive at 7:53pm (which I didn’t read due to my value of time), while the Hobbs piece you criticize was only 168 words, or 16%.

        > Yes, the cops are constrained both from a lack of resources and liberal policies that tie their hands.

        Very true.  I’ve had this confirmed recently with a 6-week occupation of squatting-meth-addicts (some people call them ‘homeless’).

        > One of the biggest tied hands problems has to do with the homeless vandalizing business and scaring customers away.

        This has happened repeatedly to a business 400′ from me.  And if you think I have no proof, the owner has video footage that shows who-dun-it, and they are the squatting meth addicts.

        > The state passed the laws.  The crooks and thieves just make sure the value of what they take or damage falls below the line of what activists like David Greenwald think warrants police attention and a trip through the court system.

        Essentially, it legalizes the doorway to lawlessness.  Long ago in this same location, I called the police after I chased bicycle thieves to West Sacramento at over 90mph, caught up to them, and got their license number.  I went to court and they were prosecuted.

        Two weekends ago I watched the same person walk into out neighborhood three times and come back with a different bicycle, and take it to the meth-squatter/bike-theif camp.  The cops told me they have to witness someone in the act in order to take action on a bike theft.  The piles of bike parts are no longer ‘evidence’, they are the meth-squatter/bike-theif’s ‘belongings’.

        What the F— has happened to our society?  Yes, the progressive laws you site, JB, that’s what has happened

        1. Jeff Boone

          That’s an incredibly ironic thing to say, considering you wrote a 1,033 missive at 7:53pm (which I didn’t read due to my value of time), while the Hobbs piece you criticize was only 168 words, or 16%.

          LOL.  I type fast and stand by my comment.

          What the F— has happened to our society?  Yes, the progressive laws you site, JB, that’s what has happened

          Agree.

  7. John Hobbs

    Alan: I have no idea where you got the impression that I did not believe in self-defense, very different from vigilante justice and I know how to manipulate the system to my advantage when the system is rigged to begin with..  I also believe in process. I have worked for government agencies for forty years. I call the cops because what is what you are supposed to do whether they do their part or not. When they fail to respond as they almost always do to “unsexy” crimes like vandalism, you are told to “call the non-emergency number to talk to a report writer.” The excuse is always “We don’t have the resources to respond to property crimes.” But when the property crimes make your property uninhabitable and you can’t afford the tens of thousand of dollars of cumulative damage from repeated incidents requiring repairs and replacements, that is going to lead to physical violence.(I should add here that the vandal in question was a family member of an assistant DA and the cops all knew what was going on.) I also believe in the sanctity of human life and would only defend myself and family when absolutely necessary and to no greater extent than neutralizing the threat.  I will add here that my maternal grandfather was a sheriff in West Texas in the early 1900’s, a gun totin’ horse ridin’ guy who later became a Methodist preacher. I have a nephew who recently retired from a federal leo position, so bigot Boone’s observation about me being anti-law enforcement, like most of his blather comes from his colon. what I am against are those who set themselves above the law they falsely swear to uphold and the citizens they are sworn to protect. My mother btw was a product of the depression and a strong loving family who knew loss and injustice all to well, but persevered and stayed true to their religious and civic values throughout. Momma was plenty affectionate with all of us, especially me since I was a sickly child, not expected to live to my first birthday, but she did not coddle us. I suspect someone’s mom always told him he was the smartest and best, even when he was a poopie head.

    1. Alan Miller

      > I have no idea where you got the impression that I did not believe in self-defense

      I don’t think I said that.

      > I also believe in process . . .  I call the cops because what is what you are supposed to do whether they do their part or not.

      I’m not sure I understand.  If you are so against the institution, plus they don’t do anything, why would you do it because you are ‘supposed to’?

      > When they fail to respond as they almost always do to “unsexy” crimes like vandalism, you are told to “call the non-emergency number to talk to a report writer.” The excuse is always “We don’t have the resources to respond to property crimes.”

      Isn’t that somewhat similar to what JB is saying?  At least in Davis, they do sometimes respond to these sorts of crimes, even if much less so than back in the #ahem# “old-timey days of law & order”.

      > But when the property crimes make your property uninhabitable and you can’t afford the tens of thousand of dollars of cumulative damage from repeated incidents requiring repairs and replacements, that is going to lead to physical violence.

      It certainly can.  Is that “wrong”?  Apparently, from your neighbor’s experience, it is illegal — more illegal than what caused it.    I’ve had more progressive friends tell me that the police shouldn’t be dealing with property crimes, because ownership and property is all part of the racist white supremacy capitalist system.

      1. Ron Oertel

        Apparently, from your neighbor’s experience, it is illegal — more illegal than what caused it.

        Apparently, from Hobb’s experience, as well:

        Then a officer in SWAT gear showed up to threaten me with arrest if I took the law into my own hands.

      2. Ron Oertel

        Taken to an extreme, that’s what may have led to the claimed “citizen’s arrest” that made the news, recently.  And, contributed to the mass protests and riots.

        But on a lighter note, it apparently didn’t lead to Alan’s arrest for driving “90 mph”. 😉

        1. Alan Miller

          I was in pursuit of criminals 😉   High speed chase.

          And it was over 30 years ago.  That and stealing the milk cartons from Safeway, long past the expiration date 🙂

          Of course, today, the statute of limitations is the same as the bail — zero.

        2. Ron Oertel

          I’m just glad that they didn’t nab you for that “self-reported incident” at Nugget, regarding a fish and the coronavirus. 🙂

          But yeah, I found the comment from Hobbs rather surprising, as well. I definitely understand the frustration, though. Yours, as well.

          That’s how neighborhoods/cities decline (e.g., those who have the ability to do so often end up leaving).

        3. Alan Miller

          Frozen fish stabbing didn’t happen – all the customers were good.  A couple of employees stood way too close though  . . . go figger.

Leave a Reply

X Close

Newsletter Sign-Up

X Close

Monthly Subscriber Sign-Up

Enter the maximum amount you want to pay each month
$ USD
Sign up for