PORTLAND & FED POLICE: Marches, Movements, Moms, and Mobilizations

Wall of Moms

By Roman Mendoza

PORTLAND, OR – On the steps of the Multnomah County Justice Center, a local Black Lives Matter speaker makes a passionate “Thank You” to the Wall of Moms, while surrounded city and county officials, along with estimates of more than 3,000 demonstrators.

The speaker captivated the crowd by thanking the abundance of support given by the WoM. He asked the crowd, “Portland, do you know why your moms are out here?” He then asked, “Do you remember George Floyd?” The crowd cheers at his name. The speaker continues, “They’re out here because when George Floyd died, he called for his mama… And all these Portland mamas heard him.”

I arrived in Portland around 8 p.m. and began making my way to Tom McCall Waterfront Park, where Portland’s Wall of Moms met with Black Lives Matter. These are just two of the organizations and groups who have been protesting police brutality, and now federal police presence in Portland. The federal police are made up of many departments too, like ICE, CBP (Customs and Border Protection), and U.S. Marshals, acting under the Federal Protection Service.

From the waterfront, the crowd marched to meet other groups and an even larger crowd at the Justice Center. The groups met around 9:30 p.m. and took time to acknowledge safety, goals, community, and even more safety. Leaders warned, the police will be out tonight and they will use force. Then, they led a chant renouncing fear and embracing courage.

Between 10:30 p.m. and 11 p.m. most of the crowd marched half a block from the Justice Center to the Edith Green-Wendell Wyatt Federal Building. The federal building was fenced in black steel, and reinforced by concrete “Jersey” barriers. The majority of protesters were peaceful but there were outliers.

A small group of no more than 20 began rocking the fence. After gaining momentum and swaying the fence, federal officers announced that interference with the fence would prompt crowd control measures, including force.

The group persisted, and true to their word, federal officers began shooting tear gas, pepper balls, and flash bangs. The group rocking the fence dispersed but the peaceful protesters had formed a line, using umbrellas as cover. They also had people with leaf blowers, clearing the air.

The leaf blowers are so successful that I recorded an officer with a leaf blower using it in the same fashion.

There were glaring gaps between all these: the federal building and officers, the officers and the fence, as well as between the fence and protesters. The problem with tear gas and pepper is that it is indiscriminate. It affects bad actors and peaceful protectors alike, lumping everyone on the side of criminal activity.

I moved between the front line and areas that were clear of gas because I was affected. Some rounds affected me more than others. After being subjected to crowd control measures for being in the same vicinity, I was disoriented. The gas affects your skin, eyes, and breathing. The best way to describe it is that it is disorienting.

Blinking tears out, heavy breathing in a mask, and irritated skin makes dispersing especially hard. Tens of people moved with their heads down, one arm out, coughing, trying to feel their way to safety. As the people at the front moved back, people from the back moved up. This went on until about midnight.

The Federal Protection Service eventually declared an unlawful assembly and dispersed the crowd even further. At this point most people left the area. There were still hundreds of people but not nearly the thousands had been there moments earlier.

The discretion of the officers changed after they declared the assembly unlawful for the three blocks surrounding the federal building, despite the protest only taking place immediately in front of the federal building.

They began to shoot pepper and tear gas at people for seemingly no reason. The people they targeted were not on federal property, and many from what I observed, were just standing, kneeling, shouting, and speaking.

The holdovers from this dispersal moved to the street intersection near the federal building.  They created a phalanx with makeshift shields and umbrellas. Behind the phalanx, they started a small bonfire in the street, using pallets and rubbish. They were also blowing bubbles, and had a dancing drum circle.

As the tension eased, I felt the night was coming to an end, and I got ready to leave the scene. I was three blocks away from the federal building and I heard people shouting. “They’re coming, they’re coming,” they shouted as they ran.

I ran back to the federal building and got back there right after federal officers came out of the fenced area and dispersed the people having a bonfire in the street. What I saw next made me feel I was in a war zone. Multiple lines of federal officers cleared the streets using tear gas and flash bangs. The gas was so thick, I could not go back the way I came.

I circled back to get in front of the gas. With most people dispersed, and finding myself alone, I made my way back to my car. There was a large federal presence on the city blocks. They were lined up in a standoff with a few protesters. And, then they turned around, apparently to go in for the night.

Fireworks were sporadically tossed over the fence at federal officers, but officers did not appear to be targeting those who threw them.

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Disclaimer: the views expressed by guest writers are strictly those of the author and may not reflect the views of the Vanguard, its editor, or its editorial board.

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121 Comments

  1. Keith Olsen

    Throughout the night some people in this crowd spent their time shaking the fence around the building, throwing rocks, bottles, and assorted debris over the fence, shining lasers through the fence, firing explosive fireworks into the area blocked by the fence, and using power tools to try to cut through the fencePortland Police declared a riot based on the conduct of people in the crowd and gave repeated warnings that anyone who remained may be subject to arrest or citation and may be subject to force including impact weapons or tear gas

    https://nypost.com/2020/07/26/portland-protest-declared-a-riot-sunday-as-federal-building-is-breached/

    It’s not a peaceful protest.

    1. David Greenwald

      Actually as my reporter documented it was a peaceful protest until the police came in with tear gas and broke it up. And that’s part of the problem. The Portland protests were dying down until federal action came in and injected new engery and now anger into them. How do you determine what is and what is not peaceful when there are so many moving parts and each action creates a new outcome? And you’re trying to do it through the lens of very biased right wing sources.

      1. Keith Olsen

        I guess you missed the part where “Throughout the night some people in this crowd spent their time shaking the fence around the building, throwing rocks, bottles, and assorted debris over the fence, shining lasers through the fence, firing explosive fireworks into the area blocked by the fence, and using power tools to try to cut through the fence”

        That sounds so peaceful.

        1. David Greenwald

          Our account was: “A small group of no more than 20 began rocking the fence.”

          So they violently cleared out the entire crowd based on the actions of a very small number of people.

    2. Tia Will

      Keith

      An estimated 3,000 people gather and 20 of them choose to rattle a fence. Let’s use the terminology used frequently favored by those on the right to justify repeated killings of blacks by the police. Sure sounds like “a few bad apples” to me.

  2. Keith Olsen

     “They’re out here because when George Floyd died, he called for his mama… And all these Portland mamas heard him.”

    The same George Floyd who put a gun to the stomach of a pregnant mother and his fellow assailants pistol whipped her while Floyd robbed her house.  Did the Portland mamas hear her screams?

    1. Bill Marshall

      I don’t think anyone has asserted he was ‘a choir boy’… but for police in the street, to detain, subdue, charge, try, convict, and execute him in a matter of less than 15 minutes?  Really?

    2. Jim Frame

      False equivalence, but it makes a good excuse for those looking to deny unconscionable state action.

      [Responding to Keith’s post, not Bill’s.]

        1. Tia Will

          Keith

          No one, literally no one has justified or defended those actions. And you are doing nothing but deflecting from the obvious issue at hand. The egregious taking of black lives by the police. Can you not for one-second address the core issue here? You know, the issue without which none of this would be happening.

        2. Keith Olsen

          WoM, Wall of Mothers, is out cheering for a man who put a gun to a mother’s pregnant belly, so so hypocritical:

          “Portland, do you know why your moms are out here?” He then asked, “Do you remember George Floyd?” The crowd cheers at his name. 

          What a hero, especially to a group called the Wall of Mothers.

        3. David Greenwald

          BTW, I looked it up and Floyd never put a gun to a pregnant woman, the person he robbed back in 2007 was not pregnant.  I would appreciate you not posting fake news on here.

        4. David Greenwald
          • George Floyd was sentenced to five years in prison for his involvement in an armed robbery in 2007.

          • The woman robbed, Aracely Henriquez, was injured by another man, and there’s no evidence she was pregnant at the time of the incident.

        5. David Greenwald

          Probable cause report (link) says that the victim and a toddler were home at the time of the incident, floyd was one of several people who forced their way into the home.  He did threaten her with a gun.  She was not pregnant.  (Link)

          She was injured, but her injuries were inflicted by another man, not Floyd.  (Link).

        6. Keith Olsen

          Alright, I’ve done some more research, no one can say for sure if she was pregnant or not.  Some reports say she was, others say not.  But Floyd did put a gun to Aracely Henriquez’s abdomen and she was beaten by another assailant as I have posted.  There, so Floyd put a gun to a mother’s abdomen and the WoM cheer for him?

        7. David Greenwald

          Appreciate that. What I would say however is that the incident occurred a long time ago and had nothing to do with why he died. He didn’t deserve to die for what happened in Minneapolis  on May 25. And more importantly he’s become a symbol of policing that is unconstitutional.

    3. Tia Will

      Keith

      Ok, so you don’t like that emotive description. I bet Breonna Taylor, Stephon Clark, Philando Castile, and Tamir Rice would have cried out too. Oh never, mind about Tamir Rice. He probably had no time to cry out anything.

      And none of them had done anything wrong at all.
      But you know…a few bad apples.

  3. Bill Marshall

    No one is denying anything… he confessed to those crimes, and in 2009 was sent to prison for 5 years… the crime you refer to is ~ 13 years ‘old’.

      1. Ron Oertel

        According to your articles, the Floyd protests were dying down until Trump sent in these agents.

        Regardless of what one thinks of all of this, local (Democratic) officials helped frame it that way, as well. (Essentially, a rejection of Trump.)

        I’m pretty sure that my comment above is true, to some degree. Seems like the following two comments support that theory.

         

        1. David Greenwald

          “I’m pretty sure that my comment above is true, to some degree. ”

          Based on what? I think if you better understood the left movement, you wouldn’t make these comments. There is a clear cleavage between the progressive left and the mainstream left.

        2. Ron Oertel

          Based upon what I’ve already noted – including the comments which immediately followed mine (below).

          It was an observation and theory, not an “argument”.

          1. David Greenwald

            It’s actually not an observation. You are observing behavior in Davis on this site not observing behavior in Portland on the ground there. You may have attempted to infer, but you failed to consider a number of factors that make that inference problematic.

    1. Tia Will

      Ron

      They may indeed have become that. But that is entirely of his own making. It was he who chose to call for domination rather than reconciliation. It was he who chose to clear an entirely peaceful march outside the WH for his photo op. It was he who chose to send in unnamed agents neither requested nor wanted by the local authorities or the people ostensibly to protect a building which despite graffiti, broken windows and doors had stood for 50+ days of protest.

      1. Keith Olsen

        And a few days ago the rioters tried to blockade the doors of the court house with officers inside and start the building on fire.  Attempted murder.

        1. Tia Will

          Keith

          I would love to see your evidence that the protesters and the rioters are the same people, or in any way related. Since no one is identified by name, how do we know, for fact, this was not staged by the feds themselves.

          I am not saying it was. I am saying we do not know who the assailants were. But some of us are very willing to leap to conclusions based on our own political preference.

           

        2. Keith Olsen

          Since no one is identified by name, how do we know, for fact, this was not staged by the feds themselves.

          Puh-lease….

          If we go by that reasoning maybe the rioters staged the officers driving back the protesters.

          See how far fetched that sounds?

          1. David Greenwald

            But the fact is we don’t know who did what, you’re inferring all actions to the protesters.

        3. David Greenwald

          It doesn’t take ridiculous conspiracies to recognize the possibility that there is a smaller group of people wanting to take advantage of the moment to do acts of mischief or worse and that they likely have nothing to do with and share no goals with the bulk of the protesters.  That’s not a far-fetched notion at all and in fact likely.

          The fact is we are flying blind on this. But understand there is a difference between someone like Tia, someone like the other organizers, and someone who sees this as an opportunity to throw rocks at the cop. Why is that difficult for you to comprehend?

        4. Ron Oertel

          David to Keith:  “But understand there is a difference between someone like Tia, someone like the other organizers, and someone who sees this as an opportunity to throw rocks at the cop. Why is that difficult for you to comprehend?”

          I doubt that Keith has difficulty comprehending this.

          But, it’s also likely that those “throwing rocks” (or engaging in other “mischief”, as you put it) aren’t Trump supporters in this case – don’t you think?

           

        5. Ron Oertel

          The ones throwing rocks are probably not motivated by politics.

          I strongly disagree with that conclusion, regarding those engaging in “mischief” – as you put it.

          Maybe ask your reporter to interview them, assuming that some might be willing to participate.

          1. David Greenwald

            It’s like the people who go to the music festival to get drunk and start a fight. They really weren’t there for the music. When you have a large crowd, there are people who are going to be there wanting to take advantage of the situation.

          1. David Greenwald

            How many have you been to? How many people do you personally know and have talked to who have been to a protest that has gotten out of control?

        6. David Greenwald

          You miss the point – you have no basis for your opinion because you have neither been to a protest nor know anyone who has been to one out of control and therefore have no insight into who is and is not causing the problem.  I’ve talked to a lot of organizers and most don’t want people doing this kind of stuff since it causes them problems and hurts the cause.  But you guys never seem to get the fact that most of people who organize this stuff are quite smart and politically savvy.  The worst thing that can happen is someone throw a rock at a cop.  That’s why MLK used to train people so hard for turning the other cheek, one slip up and the movement goes poof.

          1. Don Shor

            I guess the conservatives have forgotten about the extremists who latched on to the ‘reopen’ protests.
            https://www.inquirer.com/news/white-supremacist-extremists-reopen-rallies-black-lives-matter-protests-20200613.html
            Remember this?

            Groups have used a playbook that experts say extremists have long relied on: Latch on to in-person and online movements, whether they agree with the message or not, to establish a foothold in new communities, recruit members, and, in some cases, simply sow mayhem.

            Last month, “reopen” protesters raged against state-mandated shutdowns amid the pandemic. The rallies at capitol buildings across the country were generally organized by mainstream conservatives, and most supporters were concerned about the deepening economic crisis.

            But “reopen” communities also attracted antigovernment types, conspiracy theorists, vaccine skeptics, and militiamen — all people whom experts say white supremacist groups, including one in South Jersey, targeted for recruitment.

            So do those extremists who acted out at the ‘reopen protests’ reflect the views of all the protest participants?

        7. Keith Olsen

          You miss the point

          I always laugh when David says this, and he often does.

          David, you miss the point.  You seem to think that only your points count.  Guess what, you don’t know it all even though you seem to think so.

        8. Ron Oertel

          You miss the point – you have no basis for your opinion because you have neither been to a protest nor know anyone who has been to one out of control and therefore have no insight into who is and is not causing the problem.  

          You have no idea whether I have, or haven’t.

          This is the second time (today, alone) in which you’re claiming knowledge and judgement from “afar”, while suggesting that others cannot do so. The effort to do so is politically-motivated in the first place.

          Go interview the people who are engaging in violence, if you want to know “why”.

          You’re not going to be able to completely “divorce” those who choose to participate in violence, from those who don’t.

          I’ve talked to a lot of organizers and most don’t want people doing this kind of stuff since it causes them problems and hurts the cause.  

          That’s also irrelevant.

          But you guys never seem to get the fact that most of people who organize this stuff are quite smart and politically savvy.  

          Who is “you guys”?

          You’re implying that this type of thing is “organized” in the first place.

          The worst thing that can happen is someone throw a rock at a cop.  

          That is absolutely NOT the worst thing that can happen.  And, that’s been demonstrated over-and-over again.

          That’s why MLK used to train people so hard for turning the other cheek, one slip up and the movement goes poof.

          This is very different than the protests that MLK led, including the basic/underlying message.

           

           

          1. David Greenwald

            I think you lack appreciation for the fact that you would not agree with MLK on policies or tactics. He in fact was a disruptor.

        9. Ron Oertel

          Actually, this is the correct/intended order of the sentences above:

          You’re not going to be able to completely “divorce” those who choose to participate in violence, from those who don’t.

          The effort to do so is politically-motivated in the first place.

        10. Ron Oertel

          I think you lack appreciation for the fact that you would not agree with MLK on policies or tactics. He in fact was a disruptor.

          You’re not doing too well today, regarding what I might “agree” or “disagree” with.

          “Disruption” is quite different from what we’re seeing occur repeatedly, these days.

          You actually had one commenter on here recently, who stated that she viewed looting as a form of protest. (At least she was seemingly honest about her views.)

          1. David Greenwald

            You really think things are that much different from the south in the 1950s or 1960s? This is like kids stuff. But the civil rights movement was most effective when it had a Bull Connor or Jim Clark to play the bad guy. Trump and Wolf are doing nice stand ins. The Civil Rights movement was severely criticized for putting kids into Birmingham to confront Connor – but it worked. Meet the Moms.

        11. Ron Oertel

          You really think things are that much different from the south in the 1950s or 1960s? This is like kids stuff.

          I don’t recall MLK commandeering entire neighborhoods for extended periods of time, shutting down freeways night-after-night, smashing windows, burning buildings down, attacking police, or walking off with a looted TV in his hands.

          Then again (like “you”) – I wasn’t there to “witness it” first hand.

          1. David Greenwald

            “shutting down freeways ”

            I’m sure the vehicles traveling from Montgomery to Selma have a different recollection.

          2. David Greenwald

            The 1963 campaign in Birmingham sought to overflow the jails, cripple the downtown, and stop city functions. They understood that injustice would not be changed without disrupting civic and commercial life. They literally ground the city to a halt.

            In April 1963, Martin Luther King along with 47 other demonstrators were arrested for kneeling down in prayer across the from the Birmingham City Hall.

            Yes that’s where the practice originated.

            In response, local ministers wrote, “We recognize the natural impatience of people who feel that their hopes are slow in being realized. But we are convinced that these demonstrations are unwise and untimely.”

            It was out of this arrest that originated the now classic, “Letter From a Birmingham Jail” where King responded, “Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and establish such creative tension that a community that has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront an issue.”

        12. Ron Oertel

          I don’t believe he set up “occupancy” on freeways.

          By the way, did you see that incident (about a month ago) in Seattle, where a guy (who happened to be black) mowed down two protesters at high speed, on a closed freeway?  Killing one person.

          And yet, it was apparently not even purposeful, from what I gathered.  Betcha if that guy was white, a different conclusion would have arisen.

          Didn’t you say earlier that nothing bad could happen, other than “throwing rocks” at police?  (As if that isn’t bad enough, on its own.)

          1. David Greenwald

            “I don’t believe he set up “occupancy” on freeways.”

            I believe you are distinguishing tactics. And that is a distinction without a difference. The protesters blocked freeways. He disrupted communities. If you want to say they technically didn’t “occupy” them they only marched on them, fine. Perhaps correct. But what does that difference really mean? I think Occupying came into play later during Vietnam protests when buildings were occupied on college campuses. The park was occupied in Berkeley, etc. Is this really the point you’re hanging your argument on?

        13. Ron Oertel

          If you haven’t seen that video, I’d suggest you watch it.  It is beyond shocking.

          You’re barking up the wrong tree, in your arguments with me. I don’t like seeing anyone get hurt or killed.

          1. David Greenwald

            People got hurt and killed in the 1960s INCLUDING King. He knew it was the price to be paid to make a change.

        14. Ron Oertel

          At this point, I don’t think you’re even reading my comments, before responding.

          Seems like you’re more interested in arguing.

          Disruption is not the same thing as destruction and violence.

          MLK didn’t “kill himself”, or engage in violence. The latter being the key to his widespread support (and in the face of rampant discrimination in the south, Jim Crow laws, etc.).

          In Portland (and other places), black-owned businesses are being destroyed. These are pretty much white protesters.

        15. Ron Oertel

          By the way, the two protesters in Seattle who were mowed down (by someone who happened to be black) were apparently “white”, though I’m not sure how they identified their gender.

          Oh, the sad irony.

          Watch that video, and tell me what good is coming out of that. Do you think those two will be remembered in the same way that MLK is?

          I honestly think you’re pretty confused regarding your comparisons (and apparent support for what is occurring). But, you’re clearly not alone.

        16. Ron Oertel

          And again, these protests (at this point) are clearly more about Trump (and the deploying of “his” agents), than they are about George Floyd.

          Though it’s also pretty clear that those who oppose Trump are usually the same ones who are the most concerned about the George Floyd incident, as well.

          But concern about the George Floyd incident crosses party lines.  Hell, even Trump denounced it, from what I recall. I don’t remember anyone, anywhere defending it.

           

        17. Keith Olsen

          But concern about the George Floyd incident crosses party lines.  Hell, even Trump denounced it, from what I recall. I don’t remember anyone, anywhere defending it.

          Yes Trump did denounce what happened to Floyd.  I asked David for examples of things Trump has said or done that makes him a racist towards blacks.  David couldn’t come up with anything except the old tired “there were good people on both sides” which was twisted and spun as to what Trump actually meant.  David said it didn’t matter because the perception is that Trump is racist towards blacks, not that any proof is needed.

        18. Ron Oertel

          Keith:  I would have to say that for whatever reason(s), Trump seems to go out of his way to create division.

          Not the kind of leader I’d like to see. I think he’s harmful.

        19. Ron Oertel

          Tried to add:

          The division that Trump creates does not always correspond with skin color, though.

          Seems to me that he can “turn on a dime” regarding his support (and even friendship), vs. scathing criticism of someone.  I’ve never seen anything like it at this level of governance.

          He seems like the kind of guy that you don’t want to criticize, publicly (if one wants to maintain any kind of positive relationship). In my opinion, that is probably a lot more important to him, than skin color.

          (Excuse me, but i think the secret service might suddenly be knocking on my door.) 😉

        20. Keith Olsen

          I’ve said this before, Trump says and tweets some things that I wish he hadn’t and I wish we had better candidates than Trump, Hillary and Biden.  But one thing you can say for Trump, he doesn’t kowtow to the left and that alone gets my vote.

        21. Ron Oertel

          Never mind – it’s just some guys in suits, in an indistinguishable van.  I’m sure it’s nothing.  😉

          In all seriousness, some of Trump’s strength is related to what you note, in that he’s not afraid to take on anyone – including traditional allies. No other politician does this.

          (The guys in the van are suddenly leaving, now! Whew!)

        22. Alan Miller

          How about the three cops who were possibly blinded by the lasers used by the Portland rioters

           

          The fact is we are flying blind on this.

          Poor choice of words.

          To reaffirm:  lasers are a weapon of terror, the use of which should require life imprisonment or whatever the sentence is for releasing biological weapons.

      1. Bill Marshall

        George III made a similar error when the pesky colonists protested the tea tax, stamp tax, etc.  So he sent troops to Boston, and required the locals to shelter his troops in their homes… then in a force of strength, tried to capture the munitions stored in Concord… didn’t work out that well for those troops or ultimately the British Empire…

        1. Tia Will

          Bill

          Yeah, in the back of my mind, I seem to have stored a similar story of our national origins. But of course, our history has painted those “violent thugs” as heroes.

        2. John Hobbs

          “But of course, our history has painted those “violent thugs” as heroes.”

          Is there any doubt in your minds what those founders would do if the president was conspiring with foreign autocrats?

  4. Keith Olsen

    Is there any doubt in your minds what those founders would do if the president was conspiring with foreign autocrats?

    Buy a vowel dude.  The true treasonous actors were the people, mostly Democrats, who put out a false narrative in order to try and unseat an elected president.   It’s all surfacing now.

  5. John Hobbs

    So lets be clear, Trump takes political help from Putin, an indisputable fact for which his cronies and “individual one” were indicted and the cronies convicted, as Trump would have been had he not been the sitting president, and Keith is calling Democrats and protesters traitors? You need more than a vowel, dude, you need a conscience.

  6. Ron Glick

    “If we go by that reasoning maybe the rioters staged the officers driving back the protesters.”
    “See how far fetched that sounds?”
     Jeb Stuart Magruders, Cointelpro and Kristallnacht. There is even a term for it “Agents Provocateurs.”  So I wouldn’t be so sure when assuming the motives of people taking actions that can be construed to be detrimental to a cause until you can actually identify who is doing what.

  7. Ron Oertel

    Article from May 31st:

    Herndon directly addressed the damage done by some protesters over the weekend.
    “It appears most of the young folks tearing up the city are younger white people,” he said.

    “If somehow you think that tearing up (downtown) is going to help black people, you are sadly mistaken. Please don’t think you are doing any of us any favors by tearing stuff up.”

    https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/05/portland-black-leaders-decry-pandemic-of-racism-say-destructive-protests-not-they-help-they-need.html

  8. Dave Hart

    Let’s see…isn’t Oregon where the white supremacist ranchers took over a federal wildlife refuge office, destroyed and damage federal property and had a standoff with federal officials who stood by and did essentially nothing for weeks?  If they had been black what might have happened?  Maybe because they were white and when white peoples rights are infringed, it’s worth an insurrection and destruction of federal property, but when it’s about the rights of anyone who is not white, it’s about thuggery.  This thing in Portland is about racist, white supremacist policies.  Those in favor of “law and order” for and by white people are the only ones outraged over the behavior of the Dads and their leaf blowers or the Moms or even just anarchists that want to ‘even the score’.

    1. Ron Oertel

      Not sure if I’d call those guys “white surpremacists”, but they were armed (and in a remote location). Their “issue” had nothing to do with skin color, except that they were all “white” (I think).

      One of them ended up getting killed by agents.

      I’ve posted articles regarding this incident, before.

      I thought the government handled that with a great deal of patience, and I was glad to see those guys leave.  (From what I recall, many of those in a nearby town weren’t too pleased with their presence, either. It also drew a very heavy law enforcement presence, for an extended period of time.)

      I don’t think leaf blowers had a chance to be used, there.  😉

    2. Ron Oertel

      But if you want to see incidents in which the federal government responded with a much “heavier hand” toward “white” people (I think), you might want to review what occurred in Waco.

      Also resulted in significant injury and death for agents, I think.

      Or, perhaps Ruby Ridge (though I’m not as familiar with that). That incident was apparently some kind of “rallying cry”, for some.

      There’s in-depth PBS programs regarding a lot of these types of incidents.

    3. Keith Olsen

      Let’s see…isn’t Oregon where the white supremacist ranchers took over a federal wildlife refuge office

      What are you even talking about, it had nothing to do with race.  But nice try anyway.

       

    4. Ron Oertel

      Here’s something kind of interesting, regarding the leader of the wildlife refuge takeover:

      In December 2018, Bundy disavowed the militia movement due to his lack of support for President Donald Trump‘s immigration policy, specifically regarding the Central American migrant caravan. He said, “To group them all up like, frankly, our president has done — you know, trying to speak respectfully — but he has basically called them all criminals and said they’re not coming in here. What about individuals, those who have come for reasons of need for their families, you know, the fathers and mothers and children that come here and were willing to go through the process to apply forasylumso they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually?” Bundy also claimed thatnationalismdoes not equalpatriotismand compared the modern-day United States to 1930sNazi Germany.[85][86]

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon_Bundy

      So maybe the next time, the Vanguard will send a reporter in “support” of any similar future incident – given this guy’s views.  Even if it ultimately comes at the expense of our “BLM” federal lands.

      But, the guy doesn’t sound like a “white supremacist” to me, at least.

    5. Alan Miller

      isn’t Oregon where the white supremacist ranchers took over a federal wildlife refuge office, destroyed and damage federal property and had a standoff with federal officials who stood by and did essentially nothing for weeks?  If they had been black what might have happened?

      Those situations aren’t even remotely similar.  I’ve been to Mauhler County, and I’ve been to Portland.  The two are about as different as the civil war North and South (in different ways). Mauhler is less than 1.7% black, has 30,000 people in 10,000 square miles, so one black person per 20 square miles.  Neighborhoods 0f Portland have more people than the whole of Mauhler County.

      Having people of whatever race take over a remote area where they aren’t hurting anyone or disrupting businesses requires a very different response than an urban riot.  You have them surrounded, and you can wait them out.

      And . . . as you recall, this didn’t go so well for one of the Mauhler occupiers who was shot dead by law enforcement after they left the preserve.  A very conservative white guy.  I’m sure in the same circumstance in your ‘what if they were black’ scenario, that would have been considered a racial killing.  The higher per-capita death rate of certain racial groups by law enforcement is real and should be and is – painfully slowly – being dealt with — and sometimes a killing is just a killing.

      This thing in Portland is about racist, white supremacist policies.

      Which thing are you talking about?  Lots of things up there.

      Those in favor of “law and order” for and by white people are the only ones outraged over the behavior of the Dads and their leaf blowers or the Moms or even just anarchists that want to ‘even the score’.

      And there is where you go off the rails, over the bridge, and into the canyon:  “Even just the anarchists”.  I have no problem with the peaceful protestors, support them 100%.  But your conflating attitude belies the fact that ‘even just the anarchists’ are “OK” to you, when in fact that dismissiveness is the very error that forgives what is vile, violent and divisive.  This attitude is far too common amongst the progressive left, and makes them as much the problem as Trump, who is also a huge part of the problem.

      The civil rights movement worked for its time partially because they were led by a man of peace.  He may have been an imperfect man (as are we all), but he was the perfect leader for the time.  Today, we have the great leader Mob Men Tality.  Mr. Tality contains within all imperfections of the species, including forgiving by proxy such groups as the anarchists, teens out to break things, and Antifa.

      The outer fringe of this movement has become so warped, and this warping is forgiven by the moderate lefties, that I half expect the Mr. Luther King statues to fall and the MLK Boulevards in the bluer cities to be renamed.  I say this as someone very heartened that the confederate statues fell and are being removed from public spaces.  Symbolic as that may be, it is symbolic of OK’ing a group of people as second-class human beings and that has no place in 2020 America.

      1. Tia Will

        Alan

        This attitude is far too common amongst the progressive left, and makes them as much the problem as Trump, who is also a huge part of the problem.”

        I agree with most of your post. But this sentence ignores a major difference. They cannot be “as much of the problem” when Trump holds the power. The power of money to the affected states, the power of control of much of the media, the power to recruit from within and possibly independent of our security agencies, the power over the current DOJ. While we are discussing false equivalencies, I think we should consider this power differential to be amongst them.

        1. Keith Olsen

          So let’s get this straight, Tia makes the claim that Trump  has “the power of control of much of the media” and her post remains but I post a link that shows that the media is 90% negative towards Trump and my post is being moderated?  What gives?

  9. David Greenwald

    What has basically happened is that things which had calmed down after the first week or two of June have ratched back up because of the federal agents in Portland.

    From the NY Times:

    “The latest catalyst was the deployment of federal law enforcement agents in Portland, Ore., whose militarized efforts to subdue protests around the federal courthouse have sparked mass demonstrations and nightly clashes there. They have also inspired new protests of solidarity in other cities, where people have expressed deep concern about the federal government exercising such extensive authority in a city that has made it clear it opposes the presence of federal agents.”

    So in addition to not quelling the problems in Portland – which by all accounts were dying down before the federal intervention, not it has caused the problem to actually spread.

  10. Alan Miller

    Disclaimer:  Please view the pictures and note that no Corona Virus was spread during the making of these protests, because the progressive God, Chris, protects the righteous.

      1. David Greenwald

        If they don’t wear masks, they will spread covid. I have never made any claim otherwise. I’m not exactly sure why you continue to post this stuff.

        1. Bill Marshall

          If they don’t wear masks, they will spread covid

          If they don’t wear masks, they may spread covid if someone in the group has it, or if they are an asymptomatic carrier.  No virus, no exposure, no problem.

          Covid is not as ubiquitous as one may think.  That said, mask, separation, hygiene are very important to minimize the risk.

          1. David Greenwald

            Given the numbers – I wouldn’t put odds on that not hapenning if they aren’t wearing masks. My statement has been completely misappropriated. I never made any claim other than the protests hadn’t spread a lot of covid because most had been wearing masks. The photos here show a bit of a different story.

      2. Keith Olsen

        Look at the pics above, absolutely no separation, in many cases the protesters /rioters are actually touching one another shoulder to shoulder.  Yup, but somehow they magically don’t spread Covid.

      3. Tia Will

        Keith

        Do you deny any of these protests are peaceful? Do you deny any of the protesters at any of these events are peaceful? Because there is plenty of video evidence to demonstrate these are not lies. As for your second claim of a lie, literally no one has said COVID-19 does not spread at protests, only that it is less likely to spread at outdoor gatherings than indoors. If you do not believe that, show me the quote.

        Also, lies are not unique to individuals by political philosophy. I would appreciate you not smearing those whose ideas differ from yours.

  11. Tia Will

    Bill

    “Covid is not as ubiquitous as one may think”

    I think this is a rather ambiguous and potentially dangerous statement. Would that not depend entirely on just how “ubiquitous” one thought it was, a clear point of dispute, and how “ubiquitous” it actually is…something we have no way of measuring. Would you like to substantiate or clarify this comment?

    1. Bill Marshall

      Well, the statement,

      If they don’t wear masks, they will spread covid.

      “They” is not defined… left wing protestors in Portland?  Right wing supporters of the president in Tulsa?

      A married/co-habitating couple?  Their children who live at home?

      The statement I responded to, was absolute.  Little in this world is absolute.

      Covid is something to be leery of, indoors, near people for substantial periods of time.  Near folk who are at risk from you, if you are asymptomatic and exposed.  High use touched surfaces.  Many have by their actions and statements seem to believe it is “everywhere”… that is untrue.  I know of no reputable scientist who says it is.

       

      1. Bill Marshall

        Adding, “it is a matter of risk, and expecting all to act to minimize the risk.  No one knows, or likely will ever know, hat additional exposures took place.

  12. Keith Olsen

    “Mayor Wheeler on rioters setting fire at Portland police building: ‘You are attempting to commit murder”

     
    “When you commit arson with an accelerant in an attempt to burn down a building that is occupied by people who you have intentionally trapped inside, you are not demonstrating, you are attempting to commit murder,” Wheeler said during an online press conference Thursday.

    https://www.kptv.com/news/mayor-wheeler-on-rioters-setting-fire-at-portland-police-building-you-are-attempting-to-commit/article_8e01541e-d839-11ea-8736-4b746b521476.html

     

    1. Keith Olsen

      Oh thank you, I’m so flattered that you shadow my every comment.

      There’s an actual video with this story as with my other link above so people can see and judge with their own eyes.

      Obviously the riots haven’t died down after the Feds left as was the theme that liberals and the Vanguard tried to push.

      1. David Greenwald

        I’m still trying to get Roman to tell this story but he sent Fox News some of his video for reasons we won’t get into and they ended up misrepresenting it in their coverage. So just because there is actual video, doesn’t necessarily make it accurate. The main point is that none of this was happening prior to intervention by the feds – they caused a much bigger problem than what existed previously. Okay, go back to posting video from right wing sources.

        1. Keith Olsen

          I guess the old lady poured the paint on her own head?

          Okay, you too, go back to writing your stories using left wing sources as you normally do.

      2. Ron Oertel

        The main point is that none of this was happening prior to intervention by the feds

        That is factually incorrect.

        they caused a much bigger problem than what existed previously. 

        That may be true, though a differentiation is not made between peaceful, vs. non-peaceful protesters regarding that claim.

        Regardless, the problem is continuing.  I did not “search” for this article, but just happened upon it earlier today:

        https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/protesters-rally-in-portland-as-mayor-decries-violence/

        1. Ron Oertel

          David:  “So just because there is actual video, doesn’t necessarily make it accurate.”

          The incident that Keith is reporting is also mentioned via the link to the article posted above.

        2. Keith Olsen

          The incident that Keith is reporting is also mentioned via the link to the article posted above.

          Some actually believe that if the liberal mainstream media doesn’t report on an incident then it must not have happened.

        3. Ron Oertel

          Seemed like David was doubting it, even though it is appearing in what you might describe as the “liberal mainstream media”. That’s why I posted the comment / link.

          Here’s another link regarding the ongoing problems:

          “You are not demonstrating, you are attempting to commit murder,” Mayor Ted Wheeler said Thursday in a hastily called news conference alongside Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell.” 

          https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/08/07/portland-mayor-blasts-protesters-you-are-attempting-to-commit-murder/

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