Mitchell argues that Big-Boxes have a number of select products that are essentially “loss leaders” that are used to create an impression of overall lower costs. For instance they may highlight a few items like DVDs and have them appear to be at very low prices, while most of their goods are around the same price you would get at a local business.
This came to mind a few weeks ago when I saw Wal-Mart’s latest commercial in their new marketing campaign, “Save Money, Live Better.”
The ad points out that the cost to a family of buying a take-out pizza is on average around $14. However, Wal Mart’s take-and-bake pizzas are $8. If your family eats pizza once a week every year, that’s an annual cost savings of more than $300.
Sounds great, but the problem is that it is misleading. The ad compares apples (take out pizza) to oranges (take-and-bake pizza). As anyone who orders pizza on even a periodic basis knows, one pays far more for pizza that is already cooked than for pizza that you have to cook yourself.
In fact, a quick look at two comparable locations showed that Safeway in Davis had a 14 inch take out pizza for the same amount as Wal-Mart claimed their pizza cost. Costco had one for $9. Papa Murphy is the chain pizza place best known for take out pizza. Prices vary, but one can get a large take-and-bake pizza for less than $10 at Papa Murphy’s and in some cases for as low as $7.00.
The point of this is that Wal-Mart’s ad is at best deceptive. It makes a price comparison that is for two different things. By comparing the price of take-out pizza to take-and-bake pizza, Wal Mart distorts the price differential.
So where does that leave us? First, it leaves us with the thought that if you are trying to save money on your household budget do not order a pizza take-out because you can probably feed your family for far less money even if you go into the prepared food section which is generally far more expensive than making it yourself.
Second, the idea that Wal Mart has the lowest prices still remains questionable. I have no doubt that people can cite some examples. I would at some point really like to go down the list on a number of core items to see what the price comparison really is.
But third, why go to misleading ads to sell your products? Wal Mart clearly has taken a hit in recent years for a number of their predatory business practices which has led communities to attempt to freeze them out, stores to close, and legislators to take action.
There are real questions about the damage done to local business by a Wal Mart. Money gets sucked out of the community and the local town pays a huge price for a modest tax revenue.
All of this leads back to Davis because Target is frankly just another version of Wal Mart. They have broken ground on Target finally. You probably saw the pictures of the pro-Target city councilmembers jumping for joy at Davis’ version of big-box retail.
The city of Davis is of course claiming (perhaps hoping is the better word) that Target will lead to an increase of $600,000 in tax revenue. Money that the city desperately needs–but is probably a drop in the bucket compared to the increasing costs of the city’s top employees and their pensions and benefits. Indeed, research suggests that big-box stores can become crime magnets which may lead to the need for additional police officers. That may eat into that $600,000. As would the loss of business from elsewhere in the city.
The city is getting its Target, the question is how much will cost us–not in terms of money but in terms of losses to our character and by diverting away people and money from our downtown which according to all the councilmembers who ran for election this past spring has never been better.
—Doug Paul Davis reporting
Union costs plus environmental regulation = high prices for many USA made goods.
People at low-end of economic spectrum avoid higher prices and shop at Big Box Retail, who buys cheap junk in China (no unions or environmental controls).
Union people who then lose jobs amplify the effect by shopping at Big Box retail and buying products made in China that put them out of a job.
Sadly, people usually get what they deserve.
In Davis, it will be the people who thought local prices were too high. They will be rewarded by less expensive crap from Target. But, the unintended (but entirely predictable) consequence will be the closure of many small businesses in Davis. They will lay-off lots of workers (many who voted in favor of Target) who will then reduce the overall economic health of Davis.
Sales tax from Target will be large, but it is a zero-sum game and will balance-out the losses from small retailers throughout Davis. In short, it will look good in isolation, but in total it will only hurt Davis.
Cheap goods are the modern opiate of the masses.
Union costs plus environmental regulation = high prices for many USA made goods.
People at low-end of economic spectrum avoid higher prices and shop at Big Box Retail, who buys cheap junk in China (no unions or environmental controls).
Union people who then lose jobs amplify the effect by shopping at Big Box retail and buying products made in China that put them out of a job.
Sadly, people usually get what they deserve.
In Davis, it will be the people who thought local prices were too high. They will be rewarded by less expensive crap from Target. But, the unintended (but entirely predictable) consequence will be the closure of many small businesses in Davis. They will lay-off lots of workers (many who voted in favor of Target) who will then reduce the overall economic health of Davis.
Sales tax from Target will be large, but it is a zero-sum game and will balance-out the losses from small retailers throughout Davis. In short, it will look good in isolation, but in total it will only hurt Davis.
Cheap goods are the modern opiate of the masses.
Union costs plus environmental regulation = high prices for many USA made goods.
People at low-end of economic spectrum avoid higher prices and shop at Big Box Retail, who buys cheap junk in China (no unions or environmental controls).
Union people who then lose jobs amplify the effect by shopping at Big Box retail and buying products made in China that put them out of a job.
Sadly, people usually get what they deserve.
In Davis, it will be the people who thought local prices were too high. They will be rewarded by less expensive crap from Target. But, the unintended (but entirely predictable) consequence will be the closure of many small businesses in Davis. They will lay-off lots of workers (many who voted in favor of Target) who will then reduce the overall economic health of Davis.
Sales tax from Target will be large, but it is a zero-sum game and will balance-out the losses from small retailers throughout Davis. In short, it will look good in isolation, but in total it will only hurt Davis.
Cheap goods are the modern opiate of the masses.
Union costs plus environmental regulation = high prices for many USA made goods.
People at low-end of economic spectrum avoid higher prices and shop at Big Box Retail, who buys cheap junk in China (no unions or environmental controls).
Union people who then lose jobs amplify the effect by shopping at Big Box retail and buying products made in China that put them out of a job.
Sadly, people usually get what they deserve.
In Davis, it will be the people who thought local prices were too high. They will be rewarded by less expensive crap from Target. But, the unintended (but entirely predictable) consequence will be the closure of many small businesses in Davis. They will lay-off lots of workers (many who voted in favor of Target) who will then reduce the overall economic health of Davis.
Sales tax from Target will be large, but it is a zero-sum game and will balance-out the losses from small retailers throughout Davis. In short, it will look good in isolation, but in total it will only hurt Davis.
Cheap goods are the modern opiate of the masses.
Maybe another angle to consider:
Will Target provide a lot of products that are not already available in Davis?
If so, wouldn’t it be convenient to shop for those proucts in Davis instead of driving somewhere else — Dixon/Vacaville, Woodland, Sacramento?
Maybe there are jobs to consider, which Target would provide.
Maybe another angle to consider:
Will Target provide a lot of products that are not already available in Davis?
If so, wouldn’t it be convenient to shop for those proucts in Davis instead of driving somewhere else — Dixon/Vacaville, Woodland, Sacramento?
Maybe there are jobs to consider, which Target would provide.
Maybe another angle to consider:
Will Target provide a lot of products that are not already available in Davis?
If so, wouldn’t it be convenient to shop for those proucts in Davis instead of driving somewhere else — Dixon/Vacaville, Woodland, Sacramento?
Maybe there are jobs to consider, which Target would provide.
Maybe another angle to consider:
Will Target provide a lot of products that are not already available in Davis?
If so, wouldn’t it be convenient to shop for those proucts in Davis instead of driving somewhere else — Dixon/Vacaville, Woodland, Sacramento?
Maybe there are jobs to consider, which Target would provide.
What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?
Jobs? You mean minimum wage jobs?
What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?
Jobs? You mean minimum wage jobs?
What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?
Jobs? You mean minimum wage jobs?
What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?
Jobs? You mean minimum wage jobs?
Perhaps we should levy a fee on stores above a certain size outside the downtown and have that fee used to buy property in the downtown that would be leased with a priority for local retailers. If we end up having big boxes let’s adopt policies that sustain local retailers and the downtown.
Perhaps we should levy a fee on stores above a certain size outside the downtown and have that fee used to buy property in the downtown that would be leased with a priority for local retailers. If we end up having big boxes let’s adopt policies that sustain local retailers and the downtown.
Perhaps we should levy a fee on stores above a certain size outside the downtown and have that fee used to buy property in the downtown that would be leased with a priority for local retailers. If we end up having big boxes let’s adopt policies that sustain local retailers and the downtown.
Perhaps we should levy a fee on stores above a certain size outside the downtown and have that fee used to buy property in the downtown that would be leased with a priority for local retailers. If we end up having big boxes let’s adopt policies that sustain local retailers and the downtown.
As one of the last working stiff’s who refuses to compromise, and still lives in this town. I will dance gleefully down the aisles of our newly built Target.
DPD- pizza is everywhere in this town. Not the greatest hypothetical to use. Here is one for comparison: You need some socks or underwear, $13.99 at Gottschalks or $6.99 at Target Woodland. And Longs or Rite-Aid are not even in the ballpark.
I rest my case. I want my sales tax dollars to also rest in the Davis city coffers.
In the words of the great Ted Puntillo from the contentious Target campaign “I’m sick and tired of driving to Woodland and Dixon”.
As one of the last working stiff’s who refuses to compromise, and still lives in this town. I will dance gleefully down the aisles of our newly built Target.
DPD- pizza is everywhere in this town. Not the greatest hypothetical to use. Here is one for comparison: You need some socks or underwear, $13.99 at Gottschalks or $6.99 at Target Woodland. And Longs or Rite-Aid are not even in the ballpark.
I rest my case. I want my sales tax dollars to also rest in the Davis city coffers.
In the words of the great Ted Puntillo from the contentious Target campaign “I’m sick and tired of driving to Woodland and Dixon”.
As one of the last working stiff’s who refuses to compromise, and still lives in this town. I will dance gleefully down the aisles of our newly built Target.
DPD- pizza is everywhere in this town. Not the greatest hypothetical to use. Here is one for comparison: You need some socks or underwear, $13.99 at Gottschalks or $6.99 at Target Woodland. And Longs or Rite-Aid are not even in the ballpark.
I rest my case. I want my sales tax dollars to also rest in the Davis city coffers.
In the words of the great Ted Puntillo from the contentious Target campaign “I’m sick and tired of driving to Woodland and Dixon”.
As one of the last working stiff’s who refuses to compromise, and still lives in this town. I will dance gleefully down the aisles of our newly built Target.
DPD- pizza is everywhere in this town. Not the greatest hypothetical to use. Here is one for comparison: You need some socks or underwear, $13.99 at Gottschalks or $6.99 at Target Woodland. And Longs or Rite-Aid are not even in the ballpark.
I rest my case. I want my sales tax dollars to also rest in the Davis city coffers.
In the words of the great Ted Puntillo from the contentious Target campaign “I’m sick and tired of driving to Woodland and Dixon”.
The new big box will need significant policing, and our police force is already too small.
The new big box will need significant policing, and our police force is already too small.
The new big box will need significant policing, and our police force is already too small.
The new big box will need significant policing, and our police force is already too small.
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
Young kids who grow too fast and play too rough to be paying Gottschalk prices. It is possible to get some things from thrift stores and garage sales, but that has its limits.
If there’s some reader who knows some convenient place in Davis that sells these things, please share your knowledge.
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
Young kids who grow too fast and play too rough to be paying Gottschalk prices. It is possible to get some things from thrift stores and garage sales, but that has its limits.
If there’s some reader who knows some convenient place in Davis that sells these things, please share your knowledge.
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
Young kids who grow too fast and play too rough to be paying Gottschalk prices. It is possible to get some things from thrift stores and garage sales, but that has its limits.
If there’s some reader who knows some convenient place in Davis that sells these things, please share your knowledge.
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
Young kids who grow too fast and play too rough to be paying Gottschalk prices. It is possible to get some things from thrift stores and garage sales, but that has its limits.
If there’s some reader who knows some convenient place in Davis that sells these things, please share your knowledge.
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.
Davis Greenwald,
So why do you think things are so expensive in Davis? Why can you buy goods at Wal Mart and Target for less?
Let me give you very good example of why. Let’s take the case of Strelitzia flowers that moved way out to 2nd street. The owner of the site at 3rd and “G” is the owner of Ace Hardware in Davis. The owner doubled the rent for Strelitzia from $4000 a month to $8000 a month.
The same thing happened in 5 or 6 other places downtown within the last year. What do you not understand? They cannot compete on a small basis due to the greed of the building owners in the downtown area and the ability of the big box to buy in volume?
Get off the couch and stop quoting Wal Mart ads and get the whole picture. One of the reasons some of the downtown businesses did’nt fail earlier is because they are family or individualy operated. They don’t have unions breathing down their necks and causing prices to go higher and forcing the public to shop elsewhere.
Speaking of unions, another SEIU member was in trouble for child porn in Sacramento. The leader of SEIU 1000. He is just like the other 3, in the news recently, who stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from their hard working members.
You did say, in one of your replies, that the SEIU unions are, “Heavily Autonomous”, and you hoped the perpetrators would get jail time. In my many years of experience with unions,way more than you, I have witnessed this situation many times and it is due to GREED.
Now ask yourself again why people shop at Wal Mart and Target? Answer, no unions to gouge and middleman the hard working public. No greedy landlords to screw the small business person.
Davis Greenwald,
So why do you think things are so expensive in Davis? Why can you buy goods at Wal Mart and Target for less?
Let me give you very good example of why. Let’s take the case of Strelitzia flowers that moved way out to 2nd street. The owner of the site at 3rd and “G” is the owner of Ace Hardware in Davis. The owner doubled the rent for Strelitzia from $4000 a month to $8000 a month.
The same thing happened in 5 or 6 other places downtown within the last year. What do you not understand? They cannot compete on a small basis due to the greed of the building owners in the downtown area and the ability of the big box to buy in volume?
Get off the couch and stop quoting Wal Mart ads and get the whole picture. One of the reasons some of the downtown businesses did’nt fail earlier is because they are family or individualy operated. They don’t have unions breathing down their necks and causing prices to go higher and forcing the public to shop elsewhere.
Speaking of unions, another SEIU member was in trouble for child porn in Sacramento. The leader of SEIU 1000. He is just like the other 3, in the news recently, who stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from their hard working members.
You did say, in one of your replies, that the SEIU unions are, “Heavily Autonomous”, and you hoped the perpetrators would get jail time. In my many years of experience with unions,way more than you, I have witnessed this situation many times and it is due to GREED.
Now ask yourself again why people shop at Wal Mart and Target? Answer, no unions to gouge and middleman the hard working public. No greedy landlords to screw the small business person.
Davis Greenwald,
So why do you think things are so expensive in Davis? Why can you buy goods at Wal Mart and Target for less?
Let me give you very good example of why. Let’s take the case of Strelitzia flowers that moved way out to 2nd street. The owner of the site at 3rd and “G” is the owner of Ace Hardware in Davis. The owner doubled the rent for Strelitzia from $4000 a month to $8000 a month.
The same thing happened in 5 or 6 other places downtown within the last year. What do you not understand? They cannot compete on a small basis due to the greed of the building owners in the downtown area and the ability of the big box to buy in volume?
Get off the couch and stop quoting Wal Mart ads and get the whole picture. One of the reasons some of the downtown businesses did’nt fail earlier is because they are family or individualy operated. They don’t have unions breathing down their necks and causing prices to go higher and forcing the public to shop elsewhere.
Speaking of unions, another SEIU member was in trouble for child porn in Sacramento. The leader of SEIU 1000. He is just like the other 3, in the news recently, who stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from their hard working members.
You did say, in one of your replies, that the SEIU unions are, “Heavily Autonomous”, and you hoped the perpetrators would get jail time. In my many years of experience with unions,way more than you, I have witnessed this situation many times and it is due to GREED.
Now ask yourself again why people shop at Wal Mart and Target? Answer, no unions to gouge and middleman the hard working public. No greedy landlords to screw the small business person.
Davis Greenwald,
So why do you think things are so expensive in Davis? Why can you buy goods at Wal Mart and Target for less?
Let me give you very good example of why. Let’s take the case of Strelitzia flowers that moved way out to 2nd street. The owner of the site at 3rd and “G” is the owner of Ace Hardware in Davis. The owner doubled the rent for Strelitzia from $4000 a month to $8000 a month.
The same thing happened in 5 or 6 other places downtown within the last year. What do you not understand? They cannot compete on a small basis due to the greed of the building owners in the downtown area and the ability of the big box to buy in volume?
Get off the couch and stop quoting Wal Mart ads and get the whole picture. One of the reasons some of the downtown businesses did’nt fail earlier is because they are family or individualy operated. They don’t have unions breathing down their necks and causing prices to go higher and forcing the public to shop elsewhere.
Speaking of unions, another SEIU member was in trouble for child porn in Sacramento. The leader of SEIU 1000. He is just like the other 3, in the news recently, who stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from their hard working members.
You did say, in one of your replies, that the SEIU unions are, “Heavily Autonomous”, and you hoped the perpetrators would get jail time. In my many years of experience with unions,way more than you, I have witnessed this situation many times and it is due to GREED.
Now ask yourself again why people shop at Wal Mart and Target? Answer, no unions to gouge and middleman the hard working public. No greedy landlords to screw the small business person.
Walmart and Target’s success speaks for itself – dsepite DPD’s suspicions, I’m quite sure that their success is not based on higher prices for lower quality goods.
DPD – I think you stop talking about this and you should do an in-depth, non-biased comparison of prices. If you choose to do it, please publish the results and the methodology.
Walmart and Target offer choices. for shoppers. Parents wit young children, at a minimum, understand that Walmart and Target offer a price/value tradeoff that is difficulty to beat. Shoppers are smart enough to make the choices that work for them. Small businesses need to adapt in order to compete.
Walmart and Target’s success speaks for itself – dsepite DPD’s suspicions, I’m quite sure that their success is not based on higher prices for lower quality goods.
DPD – I think you stop talking about this and you should do an in-depth, non-biased comparison of prices. If you choose to do it, please publish the results and the methodology.
Walmart and Target offer choices. for shoppers. Parents wit young children, at a minimum, understand that Walmart and Target offer a price/value tradeoff that is difficulty to beat. Shoppers are smart enough to make the choices that work for them. Small businesses need to adapt in order to compete.
Walmart and Target’s success speaks for itself – dsepite DPD’s suspicions, I’m quite sure that their success is not based on higher prices for lower quality goods.
DPD – I think you stop talking about this and you should do an in-depth, non-biased comparison of prices. If you choose to do it, please publish the results and the methodology.
Walmart and Target offer choices. for shoppers. Parents wit young children, at a minimum, understand that Walmart and Target offer a price/value tradeoff that is difficulty to beat. Shoppers are smart enough to make the choices that work for them. Small businesses need to adapt in order to compete.
Walmart and Target’s success speaks for itself – dsepite DPD’s suspicions, I’m quite sure that their success is not based on higher prices for lower quality goods.
DPD – I think you stop talking about this and you should do an in-depth, non-biased comparison of prices. If you choose to do it, please publish the results and the methodology.
Walmart and Target offer choices. for shoppers. Parents wit young children, at a minimum, understand that Walmart and Target offer a price/value tradeoff that is difficulty to beat. Shoppers are smart enough to make the choices that work for them. Small businesses need to adapt in order to compete.
Anonymous said…
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
…
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.”
—-
During the Target campaign the two most common commodities mentioned to me were kids’ clothing and electronics. And Target will surely fill those demands. The problem is, they also compete with local retailers in about ten other categories. They have been granted a special zoning change to build a giant, highly visible store on the edge of town, drawing traffic away from all other shopping areas.
Target is able to build smaller stores, and does so elsewhere. They could easily have proposed a 35,000 sq. ft. store in one of the existing shopping centers. But they chose to go with their superstore model here. Their visibility and huge advertising budget ($750,000 per store per year, average) will be very difficult for local retailers to compete with.
Consultants tell us that when big box comes to town, we should plan on a 30% loss of business right away. Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes not all at once. But business owners will have to take pay cuts, cut staff, possibly cut hours (making them even less competitive, unfortunately). Those who try to compete on pricing will surely fail. Leases won’t go down. So those businesses who compete most directly in their product inventory, and who have less visible locations, will be likely to close.
During the campaign, various people like Ted Puntillo (who I like and respect very much) told us that we were exaggerating, that our businesses could compete. Folks like Rich Rifkin gave explanations for why Davis merchants would somehow uniquely sustain this competition or be unaffected by the big box store. Problem is, those folks don’t know what they are talking about. They aren’t retailers, they don’t know what our product and inventory mixes are, and they haven’t studied the impact of these giant retailers on small communities.
So, in order to get kids’ clothing at lower prices, there will be a ripple effect across the local business community. The jobs created at Target will be offset to some degree by those lost locally, just as the sales tax dollars will. In the long run, it will probably be a wash in terms of total tax dollars and local employment. Cost of city services will go up somewhat.
2009-10 are not likely to be good years for local businesses, for this as well as other economic factors.
Anonymous said…
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
…
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.”
—-
During the Target campaign the two most common commodities mentioned to me were kids’ clothing and electronics. And Target will surely fill those demands. The problem is, they also compete with local retailers in about ten other categories. They have been granted a special zoning change to build a giant, highly visible store on the edge of town, drawing traffic away from all other shopping areas.
Target is able to build smaller stores, and does so elsewhere. They could easily have proposed a 35,000 sq. ft. store in one of the existing shopping centers. But they chose to go with their superstore model here. Their visibility and huge advertising budget ($750,000 per store per year, average) will be very difficult for local retailers to compete with.
Consultants tell us that when big box comes to town, we should plan on a 30% loss of business right away. Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes not all at once. But business owners will have to take pay cuts, cut staff, possibly cut hours (making them even less competitive, unfortunately). Those who try to compete on pricing will surely fail. Leases won’t go down. So those businesses who compete most directly in their product inventory, and who have less visible locations, will be likely to close.
During the campaign, various people like Ted Puntillo (who I like and respect very much) told us that we were exaggerating, that our businesses could compete. Folks like Rich Rifkin gave explanations for why Davis merchants would somehow uniquely sustain this competition or be unaffected by the big box store. Problem is, those folks don’t know what they are talking about. They aren’t retailers, they don’t know what our product and inventory mixes are, and they haven’t studied the impact of these giant retailers on small communities.
So, in order to get kids’ clothing at lower prices, there will be a ripple effect across the local business community. The jobs created at Target will be offset to some degree by those lost locally, just as the sales tax dollars will. In the long run, it will probably be a wash in terms of total tax dollars and local employment. Cost of city services will go up somewhat.
2009-10 are not likely to be good years for local businesses, for this as well as other economic factors.
Anonymous said…
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
…
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.”
—-
During the Target campaign the two most common commodities mentioned to me were kids’ clothing and electronics. And Target will surely fill those demands. The problem is, they also compete with local retailers in about ten other categories. They have been granted a special zoning change to build a giant, highly visible store on the edge of town, drawing traffic away from all other shopping areas.
Target is able to build smaller stores, and does so elsewhere. They could easily have proposed a 35,000 sq. ft. store in one of the existing shopping centers. But they chose to go with their superstore model here. Their visibility and huge advertising budget ($750,000 per store per year, average) will be very difficult for local retailers to compete with.
Consultants tell us that when big box comes to town, we should plan on a 30% loss of business right away. Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes not all at once. But business owners will have to take pay cuts, cut staff, possibly cut hours (making them even less competitive, unfortunately). Those who try to compete on pricing will surely fail. Leases won’t go down. So those businesses who compete most directly in their product inventory, and who have less visible locations, will be likely to close.
During the campaign, various people like Ted Puntillo (who I like and respect very much) told us that we were exaggerating, that our businesses could compete. Folks like Rich Rifkin gave explanations for why Davis merchants would somehow uniquely sustain this competition or be unaffected by the big box store. Problem is, those folks don’t know what they are talking about. They aren’t retailers, they don’t know what our product and inventory mixes are, and they haven’t studied the impact of these giant retailers on small communities.
So, in order to get kids’ clothing at lower prices, there will be a ripple effect across the local business community. The jobs created at Target will be offset to some degree by those lost locally, just as the sales tax dollars will. In the long run, it will probably be a wash in terms of total tax dollars and local employment. Cost of city services will go up somewhat.
2009-10 are not likely to be good years for local businesses, for this as well as other economic factors.
Anonymous said…
“What products does Target offer that people need on a regular basis that are not available elsewhere in Davis?”
How about inexpensive clothes for young kids, say 2 to 10.
…
Generally, I’d be a party line Davis liberal, but I go w/ Ted Puntillo’s comment mentioned earlier. I’d rather not waste the gas and time to drive elsewhere.”
—-
During the Target campaign the two most common commodities mentioned to me were kids’ clothing and electronics. And Target will surely fill those demands. The problem is, they also compete with local retailers in about ten other categories. They have been granted a special zoning change to build a giant, highly visible store on the edge of town, drawing traffic away from all other shopping areas.
Target is able to build smaller stores, and does so elsewhere. They could easily have proposed a 35,000 sq. ft. store in one of the existing shopping centers. But they chose to go with their superstore model here. Their visibility and huge advertising budget ($750,000 per store per year, average) will be very difficult for local retailers to compete with.
Consultants tell us that when big box comes to town, we should plan on a 30% loss of business right away. Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes not all at once. But business owners will have to take pay cuts, cut staff, possibly cut hours (making them even less competitive, unfortunately). Those who try to compete on pricing will surely fail. Leases won’t go down. So those businesses who compete most directly in their product inventory, and who have less visible locations, will be likely to close.
During the campaign, various people like Ted Puntillo (who I like and respect very much) told us that we were exaggerating, that our businesses could compete. Folks like Rich Rifkin gave explanations for why Davis merchants would somehow uniquely sustain this competition or be unaffected by the big box store. Problem is, those folks don’t know what they are talking about. They aren’t retailers, they don’t know what our product and inventory mixes are, and they haven’t studied the impact of these giant retailers on small communities.
So, in order to get kids’ clothing at lower prices, there will be a ripple effect across the local business community. The jobs created at Target will be offset to some degree by those lost locally, just as the sales tax dollars will. In the long run, it will probably be a wash in terms of total tax dollars and local employment. Cost of city services will go up somewhat.
2009-10 are not likely to be good years for local businesses, for this as well as other economic factors.
Good for Dean L. the founder of Strelitzia Flower Company. I’m feeling a bit of serendipity comining his way.
As I see he has cleverly relocated in to the curve of Second street across from the entrance to the new Target! I hope he can hang on until they get up and running.
I remember in 1972 when that guy started his business with a wooden sidewalk cart. This prior to moving into a defunct water bed store at the University Mall. Which incidentally is right where Gottschalks sits now.
Good for Dean L. the founder of Strelitzia Flower Company. I’m feeling a bit of serendipity comining his way.
As I see he has cleverly relocated in to the curve of Second street across from the entrance to the new Target! I hope he can hang on until they get up and running.
I remember in 1972 when that guy started his business with a wooden sidewalk cart. This prior to moving into a defunct water bed store at the University Mall. Which incidentally is right where Gottschalks sits now.
Good for Dean L. the founder of Strelitzia Flower Company. I’m feeling a bit of serendipity comining his way.
As I see he has cleverly relocated in to the curve of Second street across from the entrance to the new Target! I hope he can hang on until they get up and running.
I remember in 1972 when that guy started his business with a wooden sidewalk cart. This prior to moving into a defunct water bed store at the University Mall. Which incidentally is right where Gottschalks sits now.
Good for Dean L. the founder of Strelitzia Flower Company. I’m feeling a bit of serendipity comining his way.
As I see he has cleverly relocated in to the curve of Second street across from the entrance to the new Target! I hope he can hang on until they get up and running.
I remember in 1972 when that guy started his business with a wooden sidewalk cart. This prior to moving into a defunct water bed store at the University Mall. Which incidentally is right where Gottschalks sits now.
Old Skool Davis:
You think good ole Dean is going to be able to compete with Target? They sell flowers too.
Old Skool Davis:
You think good ole Dean is going to be able to compete with Target? They sell flowers too.
Old Skool Davis:
You think good ole Dean is going to be able to compete with Target? They sell flowers too.
Old Skool Davis:
You think good ole Dean is going to be able to compete with Target? They sell flowers too.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Don Shor is absolutely right. During the campaign, we looked at all sorts of fiscal projections. Target will eliminate several smaller businesses in town and cost us those jobs. Ace Hardware will be one that is hardest hit. I will hate to see them go. The cost for servicing Target will be high, resulting in a net loss in this category for Davis. The sales tax gained by Target will be cancelled out by that lost with the loss of other businesses. The profits from Target sales will all go to the corporate headquarters, not to our community. Thus, we lose dollars that used to come to our community from our local businesses. Most profits from local business remains in the community. That from big box retail does not. The only place I disagree with Don is that the fiscal impacts will be a wash. I think Target will be a fiscal loss for our community overall. So now we get less money, cheap junk, and marginal jobs with little benefits. Thanks, Ted and all of you short-sighted folks who voted for Target. You get what you pay for.
Ace Hardware certainly faces a challenge, but Target will force them to be a better hardware store. Ace will have a hard time if they try to compete with Target selling softgoods and small kitchen appliances. However a good hardware store can certainly compete with Target. Just change the product line to more power tools, more plumbing fixtures and more cabinet hardware. Ace has key advantages of better location, better service and ease of finding things in a small store.
Ace Hardware certainly faces a challenge, but Target will force them to be a better hardware store. Ace will have a hard time if they try to compete with Target selling softgoods and small kitchen appliances. However a good hardware store can certainly compete with Target. Just change the product line to more power tools, more plumbing fixtures and more cabinet hardware. Ace has key advantages of better location, better service and ease of finding things in a small store.
Ace Hardware certainly faces a challenge, but Target will force them to be a better hardware store. Ace will have a hard time if they try to compete with Target selling softgoods and small kitchen appliances. However a good hardware store can certainly compete with Target. Just change the product line to more power tools, more plumbing fixtures and more cabinet hardware. Ace has key advantages of better location, better service and ease of finding things in a small store.
Ace Hardware certainly faces a challenge, but Target will force them to be a better hardware store. Ace will have a hard time if they try to compete with Target selling softgoods and small kitchen appliances. However a good hardware store can certainly compete with Target. Just change the product line to more power tools, more plumbing fixtures and more cabinet hardware. Ace has key advantages of better location, better service and ease of finding things in a small store.
The fight against big box is over. Time to move on.
The fight against big box is over. Time to move on.
The fight against big box is over. Time to move on.
The fight against big box is over. Time to move on.
The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.
The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.
The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.
The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.
What a load of self indulgent garbage. I keep hearing about how the sales tax revenue in Davis declines because stores open in Woodland, Vacaville and West Sacramento.
Here’s a clue. Most people don’t like to walk three blocks to get to the hardware store and carry all their stuff 3 blocks back!
No Parking, extreme congestion and lack of centralized shopping is why people don’t shop in Davis. It has nothing to do with not wanting to support local business, it has to do with CONVENIENCE. We are BUSY PEOPLE. We don’t want to waste hours trying to find parking and go from this store to that store.
When Davisites finally get a CLUE that people actually DRIVE CARS and want Convenience and Parking and make it available – then the sales will go up, and the sales tax with it. Put in a Power Center. Bring jobs and revenue to the community and people who live here will shop here! About the only thing I buy in Davis is gas. Everything else is Woodland because I can’t stand driving downtown, fighting traffic and parking and spending hours going to different stores.
The people are already going to the stores out of our area and the businesses that don’t ADAPT TO TODAY’S MARKET will fail regardless of whether we build a store in Davis or not. The real question should be – do we want to be able to do ANY shopping in Davis and have ANY sales tax revenue???
If so, then we need to compete and get some centralized, brand name easy parking retail here.
What a load of self indulgent garbage. I keep hearing about how the sales tax revenue in Davis declines because stores open in Woodland, Vacaville and West Sacramento.
Here’s a clue. Most people don’t like to walk three blocks to get to the hardware store and carry all their stuff 3 blocks back!
No Parking, extreme congestion and lack of centralized shopping is why people don’t shop in Davis. It has nothing to do with not wanting to support local business, it has to do with CONVENIENCE. We are BUSY PEOPLE. We don’t want to waste hours trying to find parking and go from this store to that store.
When Davisites finally get a CLUE that people actually DRIVE CARS and want Convenience and Parking and make it available – then the sales will go up, and the sales tax with it. Put in a Power Center. Bring jobs and revenue to the community and people who live here will shop here! About the only thing I buy in Davis is gas. Everything else is Woodland because I can’t stand driving downtown, fighting traffic and parking and spending hours going to different stores.
The people are already going to the stores out of our area and the businesses that don’t ADAPT TO TODAY’S MARKET will fail regardless of whether we build a store in Davis or not. The real question should be – do we want to be able to do ANY shopping in Davis and have ANY sales tax revenue???
If so, then we need to compete and get some centralized, brand name easy parking retail here.
What a load of self indulgent garbage. I keep hearing about how the sales tax revenue in Davis declines because stores open in Woodland, Vacaville and West Sacramento.
Here’s a clue. Most people don’t like to walk three blocks to get to the hardware store and carry all their stuff 3 blocks back!
No Parking, extreme congestion and lack of centralized shopping is why people don’t shop in Davis. It has nothing to do with not wanting to support local business, it has to do with CONVENIENCE. We are BUSY PEOPLE. We don’t want to waste hours trying to find parking and go from this store to that store.
When Davisites finally get a CLUE that people actually DRIVE CARS and want Convenience and Parking and make it available – then the sales will go up, and the sales tax with it. Put in a Power Center. Bring jobs and revenue to the community and people who live here will shop here! About the only thing I buy in Davis is gas. Everything else is Woodland because I can’t stand driving downtown, fighting traffic and parking and spending hours going to different stores.
The people are already going to the stores out of our area and the businesses that don’t ADAPT TO TODAY’S MARKET will fail regardless of whether we build a store in Davis or not. The real question should be – do we want to be able to do ANY shopping in Davis and have ANY sales tax revenue???
If so, then we need to compete and get some centralized, brand name easy parking retail here.
What a load of self indulgent garbage. I keep hearing about how the sales tax revenue in Davis declines because stores open in Woodland, Vacaville and West Sacramento.
Here’s a clue. Most people don’t like to walk three blocks to get to the hardware store and carry all their stuff 3 blocks back!
No Parking, extreme congestion and lack of centralized shopping is why people don’t shop in Davis. It has nothing to do with not wanting to support local business, it has to do with CONVENIENCE. We are BUSY PEOPLE. We don’t want to waste hours trying to find parking and go from this store to that store.
When Davisites finally get a CLUE that people actually DRIVE CARS and want Convenience and Parking and make it available – then the sales will go up, and the sales tax with it. Put in a Power Center. Bring jobs and revenue to the community and people who live here will shop here! About the only thing I buy in Davis is gas. Everything else is Woodland because I can’t stand driving downtown, fighting traffic and parking and spending hours going to different stores.
The people are already going to the stores out of our area and the businesses that don’t ADAPT TO TODAY’S MARKET will fail regardless of whether we build a store in Davis or not. The real question should be – do we want to be able to do ANY shopping in Davis and have ANY sales tax revenue???
If so, then we need to compete and get some centralized, brand name easy parking retail here.
“The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.”
I love this “our town” garbage. Your definition of “our town” is different from mine.
Opposition to big box is a fight you did not and will not win.
“The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.”
I love this “our town” garbage. Your definition of “our town” is different from mine.
Opposition to big box is a fight you did not and will not win.
“The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.”
I love this “our town” garbage. Your definition of “our town” is different from mine.
Opposition to big box is a fight you did not and will not win.
“The fight for our town remains still on. It’s never over.”
I love this “our town” garbage. Your definition of “our town” is different from mine.
Opposition to big box is a fight you did not and will not win.
The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis. Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits. It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.
The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis. Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits. It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.
The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis. Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits. It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.
The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis. Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits. It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.
Target is coming because we, as a town, have not met the shopping needs of at least half the town. I love downtown Davis, “slow” local foods, local busnesses, and I frequent them whenever I can. I buy from Redwood Barn and University Honda and Ace and Nugget and even the New Tuesday Morning Wholesale outlet in South Davis. But I almost never go downtown anymore. Because of the parking hassle and the limited type of goods downtown, it has become an entertainment venue for movies and restaurants. That’s great! We need that! But it’s not a primary shopping venue and I don’t understand why some think that small area can or should be the primary shopping area for 60,000 people. I can’t buy reasonably priced kids’ clothes, womens business work clothes for size 14+ or normal business pumps (sorry- I don’t wear the comfy Shuz to work -too casual for my employer). I don’t go there for groceries or dry cleaning or clothes or office supplies or cleaning supplies. I, like so many other working parents with kids or people on a budget, have time and $ to shop only a few places and we prefer to do one-stop shopping. So what’s wrong with dining and entertainment downtown and general shopping out by the new Target? I know Target will affect the market share of some downtown businesses and I regret that, but if we as a town had built the businesses we needed, we would not have a Target in town. Let’s get over it and work on building things that generate tax revenue (as opposed to more housing on slivers of industrial-zoned land by the freeway.)
Target is coming because we, as a town, have not met the shopping needs of at least half the town. I love downtown Davis, “slow” local foods, local busnesses, and I frequent them whenever I can. I buy from Redwood Barn and University Honda and Ace and Nugget and even the New Tuesday Morning Wholesale outlet in South Davis. But I almost never go downtown anymore. Because of the parking hassle and the limited type of goods downtown, it has become an entertainment venue for movies and restaurants. That’s great! We need that! But it’s not a primary shopping venue and I don’t understand why some think that small area can or should be the primary shopping area for 60,000 people. I can’t buy reasonably priced kids’ clothes, womens business work clothes for size 14+ or normal business pumps (sorry- I don’t wear the comfy Shuz to work -too casual for my employer). I don’t go there for groceries or dry cleaning or clothes or office supplies or cleaning supplies. I, like so many other working parents with kids or people on a budget, have time and $ to shop only a few places and we prefer to do one-stop shopping. So what’s wrong with dining and entertainment downtown and general shopping out by the new Target? I know Target will affect the market share of some downtown businesses and I regret that, but if we as a town had built the businesses we needed, we would not have a Target in town. Let’s get over it and work on building things that generate tax revenue (as opposed to more housing on slivers of industrial-zoned land by the freeway.)
Target is coming because we, as a town, have not met the shopping needs of at least half the town. I love downtown Davis, “slow” local foods, local busnesses, and I frequent them whenever I can. I buy from Redwood Barn and University Honda and Ace and Nugget and even the New Tuesday Morning Wholesale outlet in South Davis. But I almost never go downtown anymore. Because of the parking hassle and the limited type of goods downtown, it has become an entertainment venue for movies and restaurants. That’s great! We need that! But it’s not a primary shopping venue and I don’t understand why some think that small area can or should be the primary shopping area for 60,000 people. I can’t buy reasonably priced kids’ clothes, womens business work clothes for size 14+ or normal business pumps (sorry- I don’t wear the comfy Shuz to work -too casual for my employer). I don’t go there for groceries or dry cleaning or clothes or office supplies or cleaning supplies. I, like so many other working parents with kids or people on a budget, have time and $ to shop only a few places and we prefer to do one-stop shopping. So what’s wrong with dining and entertainment downtown and general shopping out by the new Target? I know Target will affect the market share of some downtown businesses and I regret that, but if we as a town had built the businesses we needed, we would not have a Target in town. Let’s get over it and work on building things that generate tax revenue (as opposed to more housing on slivers of industrial-zoned land by the freeway.)
Target is coming because we, as a town, have not met the shopping needs of at least half the town. I love downtown Davis, “slow” local foods, local busnesses, and I frequent them whenever I can. I buy from Redwood Barn and University Honda and Ace and Nugget and even the New Tuesday Morning Wholesale outlet in South Davis. But I almost never go downtown anymore. Because of the parking hassle and the limited type of goods downtown, it has become an entertainment venue for movies and restaurants. That’s great! We need that! But it’s not a primary shopping venue and I don’t understand why some think that small area can or should be the primary shopping area for 60,000 people. I can’t buy reasonably priced kids’ clothes, womens business work clothes for size 14+ or normal business pumps (sorry- I don’t wear the comfy Shuz to work -too casual for my employer). I don’t go there for groceries or dry cleaning or clothes or office supplies or cleaning supplies. I, like so many other working parents with kids or people on a budget, have time and $ to shop only a few places and we prefer to do one-stop shopping. So what’s wrong with dining and entertainment downtown and general shopping out by the new Target? I know Target will affect the market share of some downtown businesses and I regret that, but if we as a town had built the businesses we needed, we would not have a Target in town. Let’s get over it and work on building things that generate tax revenue (as opposed to more housing on slivers of industrial-zoned land by the freeway.)
“It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. “
Wrong. It sucks everything out of what your definition of “community” is: high prices, small selection, and little competition, and few options.
How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
yes. it is selfish. Deny Davisites shopping options to fit a narrow-minded, caveman-like definition of
“community.”
“As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.”
Any you will lose this fight. You have already lost. Target will not be the only big box retail: office max, Safeway, Ace Hardware, and more. This is just the beginning.
You can go down with the ship if you want. Fine by me.
“The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis.”
A fight you have lost, and will continue to lose.
It is a growing movement that was defeated at the ballot box.
“Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits.”
Do downtown davis workers make lucrative salaries?
“It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. “
Wrong. It sucks everything out of what your definition of “community” is: high prices, small selection, and little competition, and few options.
How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
yes. it is selfish. Deny Davisites shopping options to fit a narrow-minded, caveman-like definition of
“community.”
“As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.”
Any you will lose this fight. You have already lost. Target will not be the only big box retail: office max, Safeway, Ace Hardware, and more. This is just the beginning.
You can go down with the ship if you want. Fine by me.
“The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis.”
A fight you have lost, and will continue to lose.
It is a growing movement that was defeated at the ballot box.
“Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits.”
Do downtown davis workers make lucrative salaries?
“It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. “
Wrong. It sucks everything out of what your definition of “community” is: high prices, small selection, and little competition, and few options.
How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
yes. it is selfish. Deny Davisites shopping options to fit a narrow-minded, caveman-like definition of
“community.”
“As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.”
Any you will lose this fight. You have already lost. Target will not be the only big box retail: office max, Safeway, Ace Hardware, and more. This is just the beginning.
You can go down with the ship if you want. Fine by me.
“The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis.”
A fight you have lost, and will continue to lose.
It is a growing movement that was defeated at the ballot box.
“Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits.”
Do downtown davis workers make lucrative salaries?
“It sucks everything out of the community and gives little if anything back. It destroys community and local business. “
Wrong. It sucks everything out of what your definition of “community” is: high prices, small selection, and little competition, and few options.
How any one can justify all this just because they want CONVENIENCE!!!, is too selfish to even discuss this.
yes. it is selfish. Deny Davisites shopping options to fit a narrow-minded, caveman-like definition of
“community.”
“As far as our fight in Davis, Target was a special general plan amendment that does not extend to any other big box retail. We will continue this fight.”
Any you will lose this fight. You have already lost. Target will not be the only big box retail: office max, Safeway, Ace Hardware, and more. This is just the beginning.
You can go down with the ship if you want. Fine by me.
“The fight against big box retail is FAR from over. It is a growing movement all over the country, not just in Davis.”
A fight you have lost, and will continue to lose.
It is a growing movement that was defeated at the ballot box.
“Big box retail exploits people and environmental and work place safety laws. It pays minimum wage and little or no benefits.”
Do downtown davis workers make lucrative salaries?
Get a life… (nice rude name there):
A few thoughts here…
I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.
They harm local business which then harms the community.
They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.
So yeah they may be convenient for people, they think it’s cheaper, I’m not sure it is, and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.
I will be interested to see your rsponse.
Get a life… (nice rude name there):
A few thoughts here…
I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.
They harm local business which then harms the community.
They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.
So yeah they may be convenient for people, they think it’s cheaper, I’m not sure it is, and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.
I will be interested to see your rsponse.
Get a life… (nice rude name there):
A few thoughts here…
I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.
They harm local business which then harms the community.
They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.
So yeah they may be convenient for people, they think it’s cheaper, I’m not sure it is, and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.
I will be interested to see your rsponse.
Get a life… (nice rude name there):
A few thoughts here…
I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.
They harm local business which then harms the community.
They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.
So yeah they may be convenient for people, they think it’s cheaper, I’m not sure it is, and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.
I will be interested to see your rsponse.
“Get a life… (nice rude name there):”
I call myself that b/c you are fighting a battle you have lost at the ballot box. It is a blunt way of pointing out the obvious.
“I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.
“They harm local business which then harms the community.”
Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.
“They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.”
You think downtown davis comes with clean hands in that department? Are there not shoe stores that sells leather?
You cannot buy plastic items in downtown Davis?
“and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.”
You lost that argument at the ballot box. (Gee, do I sound redundant?) Game Over.
“Get a life… (nice rude name there):”
I call myself that b/c you are fighting a battle you have lost at the ballot box. It is a blunt way of pointing out the obvious.
“I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.
“They harm local business which then harms the community.”
Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.
“They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.”
You think downtown davis comes with clean hands in that department? Are there not shoe stores that sells leather?
You cannot buy plastic items in downtown Davis?
“and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.”
You lost that argument at the ballot box. (Gee, do I sound redundant?) Game Over.
“Get a life… (nice rude name there):”
I call myself that b/c you are fighting a battle you have lost at the ballot box. It is a blunt way of pointing out the obvious.
“I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.
“They harm local business which then harms the community.”
Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.
“They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.”
You think downtown davis comes with clean hands in that department? Are there not shoe stores that sells leather?
You cannot buy plastic items in downtown Davis?
“and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.”
You lost that argument at the ballot box. (Gee, do I sound redundant?) Game Over.
“Get a life… (nice rude name there):”
I call myself that b/c you are fighting a battle you have lost at the ballot box. It is a blunt way of pointing out the obvious.
“I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.
“They harm local business which then harms the community.”
Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.
“They provide people with products (it’s not clear they are so much cheaper as people seem to think) that are produced abroad by often sweat shop labor. This has led to a severe decline in the manufacturing sector of this country.”
You think downtown davis comes with clean hands in that department? Are there not shoe stores that sells leather?
You cannot buy plastic items in downtown Davis?
“and at the end of the day, it has done real harm to this country on a number of levels.”
You lost that argument at the ballot box. (Gee, do I sound redundant?) Game Over.
you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?
you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?
you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?
you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?
The ultimate big box store is the internet. Should Davis reject it?
The ultimate big box store is the internet. Should Davis reject it?
The ultimate big box store is the internet. Should Davis reject it?
The ultimate big box store is the internet. Should Davis reject it?
Target is here to stay. Downtown businesses should work w Target by thinking about cooperating on a mutual shuttle between the two. The fact of the matter is that tax dollars are leaking out of Davis, bc many shop in the big box retail stores in Woodland, Dixon, Vacaville and elsewhere. Downtown Davis fills a niche market, with very individualized stores that serve a very specific market. Downtown businesses will survive on their own merit, as they always have.
For those of you who are arguing that Target will draw business from the downtown – nope! Those who shop at Target in Woodland will now shop at Target in Davis – keeping some much needed tax revenue here in town. I suspect there will be very little change to downtown businesses with the advent of Target being built.
As for Walmart’s misleading ads, I agree they probably are on the edge of legal. Which side of legal I am not certain! However, there is no question that many items are considerably cheaper at Walmart – and is the reason they stay in business. Believe me, they don’t stay in business bc of their “charming” atmosphere.
When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there. If you insist everyone is a traitor who shops outside Davis, then you will get nothing but mediocrity, high prices, and few choices. Competition is what capitalism is all about. Protecting the downtown at all costs is … I’m not sure what that is! A brand of Socialism perhaps – everything for the good of the “community”. But who gets to decide what is best for the community, or as one commenter suggested, what is “community”?
In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits. Those of us in the lower socio-economic stratusphere must shop where products are cheaper to survive, especially when gas goes to $4 a gallon. If you want to pay higher prices, through some misguided desire to protect Davis business, go right ahead and spend through the nose. But I have to save every penny, and will continue to frequent big box retail.
Target is here to stay. Downtown businesses should work w Target by thinking about cooperating on a mutual shuttle between the two. The fact of the matter is that tax dollars are leaking out of Davis, bc many shop in the big box retail stores in Woodland, Dixon, Vacaville and elsewhere. Downtown Davis fills a niche market, with very individualized stores that serve a very specific market. Downtown businesses will survive on their own merit, as they always have.
For those of you who are arguing that Target will draw business from the downtown – nope! Those who shop at Target in Woodland will now shop at Target in Davis – keeping some much needed tax revenue here in town. I suspect there will be very little change to downtown businesses with the advent of Target being built.
As for Walmart’s misleading ads, I agree they probably are on the edge of legal. Which side of legal I am not certain! However, there is no question that many items are considerably cheaper at Walmart – and is the reason they stay in business. Believe me, they don’t stay in business bc of their “charming” atmosphere.
When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there. If you insist everyone is a traitor who shops outside Davis, then you will get nothing but mediocrity, high prices, and few choices. Competition is what capitalism is all about. Protecting the downtown at all costs is … I’m not sure what that is! A brand of Socialism perhaps – everything for the good of the “community”. But who gets to decide what is best for the community, or as one commenter suggested, what is “community”?
In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits. Those of us in the lower socio-economic stratusphere must shop where products are cheaper to survive, especially when gas goes to $4 a gallon. If you want to pay higher prices, through some misguided desire to protect Davis business, go right ahead and spend through the nose. But I have to save every penny, and will continue to frequent big box retail.
Target is here to stay. Downtown businesses should work w Target by thinking about cooperating on a mutual shuttle between the two. The fact of the matter is that tax dollars are leaking out of Davis, bc many shop in the big box retail stores in Woodland, Dixon, Vacaville and elsewhere. Downtown Davis fills a niche market, with very individualized stores that serve a very specific market. Downtown businesses will survive on their own merit, as they always have.
For those of you who are arguing that Target will draw business from the downtown – nope! Those who shop at Target in Woodland will now shop at Target in Davis – keeping some much needed tax revenue here in town. I suspect there will be very little change to downtown businesses with the advent of Target being built.
As for Walmart’s misleading ads, I agree they probably are on the edge of legal. Which side of legal I am not certain! However, there is no question that many items are considerably cheaper at Walmart – and is the reason they stay in business. Believe me, they don’t stay in business bc of their “charming” atmosphere.
When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there. If you insist everyone is a traitor who shops outside Davis, then you will get nothing but mediocrity, high prices, and few choices. Competition is what capitalism is all about. Protecting the downtown at all costs is … I’m not sure what that is! A brand of Socialism perhaps – everything for the good of the “community”. But who gets to decide what is best for the community, or as one commenter suggested, what is “community”?
In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits. Those of us in the lower socio-economic stratusphere must shop where products are cheaper to survive, especially when gas goes to $4 a gallon. If you want to pay higher prices, through some misguided desire to protect Davis business, go right ahead and spend through the nose. But I have to save every penny, and will continue to frequent big box retail.
Target is here to stay. Downtown businesses should work w Target by thinking about cooperating on a mutual shuttle between the two. The fact of the matter is that tax dollars are leaking out of Davis, bc many shop in the big box retail stores in Woodland, Dixon, Vacaville and elsewhere. Downtown Davis fills a niche market, with very individualized stores that serve a very specific market. Downtown businesses will survive on their own merit, as they always have.
For those of you who are arguing that Target will draw business from the downtown – nope! Those who shop at Target in Woodland will now shop at Target in Davis – keeping some much needed tax revenue here in town. I suspect there will be very little change to downtown businesses with the advent of Target being built.
As for Walmart’s misleading ads, I agree they probably are on the edge of legal. Which side of legal I am not certain! However, there is no question that many items are considerably cheaper at Walmart – and is the reason they stay in business. Believe me, they don’t stay in business bc of their “charming” atmosphere.
When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there. If you insist everyone is a traitor who shops outside Davis, then you will get nothing but mediocrity, high prices, and few choices. Competition is what capitalism is all about. Protecting the downtown at all costs is … I’m not sure what that is! A brand of Socialism perhaps – everything for the good of the “community”. But who gets to decide what is best for the community, or as one commenter suggested, what is “community”?
In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits. Those of us in the lower socio-economic stratusphere must shop where products are cheaper to survive, especially when gas goes to $4 a gallon. If you want to pay higher prices, through some misguided desire to protect Davis business, go right ahead and spend through the nose. But I have to save every penny, and will continue to frequent big box retail.
No on K Supporter
Get a life…
“”I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.”
I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business. Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.
“Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.”
That’s a pretty narrow-minded view. First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices. I don’t think it’s elitist to look towards more local ownership and try to protect their interests. Money produced by local owners stays local. Money produced by big boxes except for some tax dollars for the city and the minimum wages for a few workers largely exits the area.
The products are purchases nationally. The money is taken out of the local store and sent to the corporate headquarters rather than the local bank. In other words, they come in, take our money and give very little back. From the stand point of the local economy it is bad.
“you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?”
No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here. I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales, that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive. The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
“You lost that argument at the ballot box.”
Again, Measure K is just one local issue. I’m talking bigger picture. I thik we as a country need to re-think how we are doing business, because it is literally killing us.
Anonymous:
“Target is here to stay.”
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
“When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there.”
I don’t blame John Q. Public. As Wal Mart has shown, it is willing to spend millions to convince people it has low prices. It puts a few products on sale initially to drive out the competition and then slowly increases the prices back towards market rate, keeping a few loss-leaders as headliners in the process.
“In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits.”
The voters narrowly approved it. But I think we have to look beyond simply Davis here, big boxes are detrimental to the country and people and communities are finally waking up to it. This is by no means over.
No on K Supporter
Get a life…
“”I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.”
I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business. Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.
“Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.”
That’s a pretty narrow-minded view. First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices. I don’t think it’s elitist to look towards more local ownership and try to protect their interests. Money produced by local owners stays local. Money produced by big boxes except for some tax dollars for the city and the minimum wages for a few workers largely exits the area.
The products are purchases nationally. The money is taken out of the local store and sent to the corporate headquarters rather than the local bank. In other words, they come in, take our money and give very little back. From the stand point of the local economy it is bad.
“you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?”
No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here. I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales, that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive. The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
“You lost that argument at the ballot box.”
Again, Measure K is just one local issue. I’m talking bigger picture. I thik we as a country need to re-think how we are doing business, because it is literally killing us.
Anonymous:
“Target is here to stay.”
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
“When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there.”
I don’t blame John Q. Public. As Wal Mart has shown, it is willing to spend millions to convince people it has low prices. It puts a few products on sale initially to drive out the competition and then slowly increases the prices back towards market rate, keeping a few loss-leaders as headliners in the process.
“In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits.”
The voters narrowly approved it. But I think we have to look beyond simply Davis here, big boxes are detrimental to the country and people and communities are finally waking up to it. This is by no means over.
No on K Supporter
Get a life…
“”I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.”
I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business. Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.
“Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.”
That’s a pretty narrow-minded view. First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices. I don’t think it’s elitist to look towards more local ownership and try to protect their interests. Money produced by local owners stays local. Money produced by big boxes except for some tax dollars for the city and the minimum wages for a few workers largely exits the area.
The products are purchases nationally. The money is taken out of the local store and sent to the corporate headquarters rather than the local bank. In other words, they come in, take our money and give very little back. From the stand point of the local economy it is bad.
“you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?”
No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here. I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales, that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive. The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
“You lost that argument at the ballot box.”
Again, Measure K is just one local issue. I’m talking bigger picture. I thik we as a country need to re-think how we are doing business, because it is literally killing us.
Anonymous:
“Target is here to stay.”
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
“When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there.”
I don’t blame John Q. Public. As Wal Mart has shown, it is willing to spend millions to convince people it has low prices. It puts a few products on sale initially to drive out the competition and then slowly increases the prices back towards market rate, keeping a few loss-leaders as headliners in the process.
“In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits.”
The voters narrowly approved it. But I think we have to look beyond simply Davis here, big boxes are detrimental to the country and people and communities are finally waking up to it. This is by no means over.
No on K Supporter
Get a life…
“”I would argue that big-boxes are a disaster for this society on so many different levels.”
Again, an argument you have lost at the ballot box.”
I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business. Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.
“Your definition of “community.” A community with little choices, high prices, poor selection, and few options. A very elitist, caveman-esque one.”
That’s a pretty narrow-minded view. First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices. I don’t think it’s elitist to look towards more local ownership and try to protect their interests. Money produced by local owners stays local. Money produced by big boxes except for some tax dollars for the city and the minimum wages for a few workers largely exits the area.
The products are purchases nationally. The money is taken out of the local store and sent to the corporate headquarters rather than the local bank. In other words, they come in, take our money and give very little back. From the stand point of the local economy it is bad.
“you think nothing in Downtown Davis is made in China?”
No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here. I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales, that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive. The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
“You lost that argument at the ballot box.”
Again, Measure K is just one local issue. I’m talking bigger picture. I thik we as a country need to re-think how we are doing business, because it is literally killing us.
Anonymous:
“Target is here to stay.”
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
“When you denegrate Target, you denegrate John Q. Public who shops there.”
I don’t blame John Q. Public. As Wal Mart has shown, it is willing to spend millions to convince people it has low prices. It puts a few products on sale initially to drive out the competition and then slowly increases the prices back towards market rate, keeping a few loss-leaders as headliners in the process.
“In the free market place, and the voters in Davis have spoken, a business sinks or swims on its own merits.”
The voters narrowly approved it. But I think we have to look beyond simply Davis here, big boxes are detrimental to the country and people and communities are finally waking up to it. This is by no means over.
“I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business.”
I think this country is harmed when people are expected to settle for less.
“Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.”
If you are referring to downtown davis, good riddance. People didn’t shop at bogeys.
“First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices.”
You pretty much proved my point. Davis is bad, and local retailers are not stepping up to the plate with competitive selection or prices.
The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales,
that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive.
which makes you and them hypocritical.
“No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here.”
LOL! So tell me, just what is an acceptable percentage for downtown davis to have made overseas, and who decided this was the rule?
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
take a breath! What target has to do with global warming, I’m not sure. But the only thing that is becoming the way of the Dinosaur is your attitude. Woodland is getting a Best Buy, Michaels, Costco, and Target.
Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.
“I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business.”
I think this country is harmed when people are expected to settle for less.
“Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.”
If you are referring to downtown davis, good riddance. People didn’t shop at bogeys.
“First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices.”
You pretty much proved my point. Davis is bad, and local retailers are not stepping up to the plate with competitive selection or prices.
The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales,
that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive.
which makes you and them hypocritical.
“No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here.”
LOL! So tell me, just what is an acceptable percentage for downtown davis to have made overseas, and who decided this was the rule?
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
take a breath! What target has to do with global warming, I’m not sure. But the only thing that is becoming the way of the Dinosaur is your attitude. Woodland is getting a Best Buy, Michaels, Costco, and Target.
Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.
“I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business.”
I think this country is harmed when people are expected to settle for less.
“Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.”
If you are referring to downtown davis, good riddance. People didn’t shop at bogeys.
“First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices.”
You pretty much proved my point. Davis is bad, and local retailers are not stepping up to the plate with competitive selection or prices.
The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales,
that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive.
which makes you and them hypocritical.
“No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here.”
LOL! So tell me, just what is an acceptable percentage for downtown davis to have made overseas, and who decided this was the rule?
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
take a breath! What target has to do with global warming, I’m not sure. But the only thing that is becoming the way of the Dinosaur is your attitude. Woodland is getting a Best Buy, Michaels, Costco, and Target.
Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.
“I’m thinking a bit bigger than simply Davis when I write “society.” I think this country is harmed by the big-box business.”
I think this country is harmed when people are expected to settle for less.
“Communities used to have a very strong local commercial base that have been strongly undermined by the explosion of places like Wal-Mart and Target which end up taking out multiple local businesses across a variety of enterprises.”
If you are referring to downtown davis, good riddance. People didn’t shop at bogeys.
“First, I am not convinced that the choices are more limited absent Target. Again, Davis is notoriously bad in this area, but thinking a bit more globally, I do not see that big-boxes have aided the population in seeing lower prices.”
You pretty much proved my point. Davis is bad, and local retailers are not stepping up to the plate with competitive selection or prices.
The result of the big-box phenomena has led this becoming magnified.
I also think you are failing to note the causal impact. The Targets and Wal Marts rely on cheap products to make their sales,
that in turn forces local competitors to rely on the same cheap products in order to survive.
which makes you and them hypocritical.
“No, I don’t think “nothing” in Downtown Davis is made in China. I do think a far larger percentage of the products sold at Target and places like Target are manufactured abroad and shipped here.”
LOL! So tell me, just what is an acceptable percentage for downtown davis to have made overseas, and who decided this was the rule?
That is not necessarily true. I think all big-boxes will eventually and probably in the near future, go by way of the dinosaur. It is not sustainable and it is not compatible with a world that needs to reshape itself in the face of global warming and a country that needs to re-establish its blue collar base if it wants to survive.
take a breath! What target has to do with global warming, I’m not sure. But the only thing that is becoming the way of the Dinosaur is your attitude. Woodland is getting a Best Buy, Michaels, Costco, and Target.
Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.
“Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.”
Do us all a favor. Go live there.
“Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.”
Do us all a favor. Go live there.
“Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.”
Do us all a favor. Go live there.
“Elk Grove has em, Sacramento has em. Roseville Has em. They expand.”
Do us all a favor. Go live there.
“Do us all a favor. Go live there.”
Excuse me, but Target is already here to stay, as is Ace Hardware, Safeway, Nugget, Borders. Davisites lovem’ – and the smaller stores did not survive bc they were not as good. Competition breeds better. Anti-competition breeds mediocrity, higher prices, and fewer amenities.
“Do us all a favor. Go live there.”
Excuse me, but Target is already here to stay, as is Ace Hardware, Safeway, Nugget, Borders. Davisites lovem’ – and the smaller stores did not survive bc they were not as good. Competition breeds better. Anti-competition breeds mediocrity, higher prices, and fewer amenities.
“Do us all a favor. Go live there.”
Excuse me, but Target is already here to stay, as is Ace Hardware, Safeway, Nugget, Borders. Davisites lovem’ – and the smaller stores did not survive bc they were not as good. Competition breeds better. Anti-competition breeds mediocrity, higher prices, and fewer amenities.
“Do us all a favor. Go live there.”
Excuse me, but Target is already here to stay, as is Ace Hardware, Safeway, Nugget, Borders. Davisites lovem’ – and the smaller stores did not survive bc they were not as good. Competition breeds better. Anti-competition breeds mediocrity, higher prices, and fewer amenities.
Let this be known as the moment that Davis lost its virginity.
Let this be known as the moment that Davis lost its virginity.
Let this be known as the moment that Davis lost its virginity.
Let this be known as the moment that Davis lost its virginity.