Unfortunately, efforts to stay in business unraveled last week and this week they suddenly announced they would liquidating all of the stores.
The loss of Borders would be a blow to Davis’ sales tax revenues, which have been flat, at best, for the last several years, despite the addition of Target. While there is little anyone can do locally about the loss of Borders, despite its local success, just as there was little anyone could do about the loss of the successful Gottschalks, an issue has arisen that is more locally based.
Earlier this week, the Vanguard learned that four businesses at Oakshade Plaza in South Davis have either closed or moved in recent months. Mermaids has closed. Davis Creamery moved from Oakshade to the Lofts. Quiznos closed July 7, reportedly posting a sign that they could no longer afford the rent.
Pure Beauty then closed their South Davis location. That leaves four of the seven storefronts in that portion of the shopping center vacant.
The South Davis shopping center was built by and is owned by Paul Petrovich. Efforts to reach his company for a response were unsuccessful.
While sources indicate that Mermaids closed for unrelated reasons, the issue of rents has long been a concern of Davis businesses. Some are wondering if some property owners are becoming an impediment to Davis sales tax revenues.
From the city’s perspective however, they do not get involved in tenant-landlord issues such as leases. As such, Sarah Worley told the Vanguard there is nothing the city can do about this situation.
The Vanguard spoke to David Robert, who owns the Davis Creamery and also sits on the Business and Economic Development Commission (BEDC).
Mr. Robert told the Vanguard that his lease over at Oakshade was costing him $5800 per month for a 1200 square foot space, and in South Davis it simply did not have the foot traffic for him to be able to turn a profit.
“It was absolutely ridiculous,” he said. “It’s not like it was Bourbon Street in New Orleans.”
“He [Paul Petrovich] was very unwilling to work with anyone even during the economic downturn,” he said. “He didn’t care because he had a signed contract and it’s just business.”
“I knew what I was getting into when I signed that contract,” he acknowledged.
The rental rates went up dramatically the last two years for David Robert and others in the Oakshade Plaza.
“The rates went up in the last two years 25 percent each time,” he said. “So obviously I lost thousands of dollars.”
“[The decision to leave] was 99.9 percent the rent, because the location just did not justify the rent,” he said.
Over the course of the five-year contract, he was paying over $5000 per month over the entire period. But overhead was even worse than that. Because of the sun exposure, during the summer months, he was forced to run his air conditioning constantly. That tacked on another $2000.
“So just electricity and rent, I was at almost $8000 a month on $2.50 ice cream, that’s very difficult to cover,” he said. “I didn’t run a profit for over four years, I was never in the black.”
Mr. Robert had actually sold the business for a year. The person who purchased the Davis Creamery tried to negotiation with Petrovich Development and they said no. Mr. Robert had agreed to buy the business back if the new owner could not work with Mr. Petrovich on a better rental agreement.
At that point, Mr. Robert bought the business back and moved it into the downtown location at the Lofts.
By contrast, Mr. Robert indicated that Chuck Roe, who owns the Lofts, is far better to work with.
“It’s 1000 times better,” he said. “His rent is absolutely in-line.”
The ideal lease will have the rent equally anywhere from 10 to 15 percent of the gross profit.
“That’s exactly where I’m at,” he said. “When I was in South Davis it was 60 percent of my gross.”
He explained that south of I-80, it is difficult to get people from the rest of the city to come over the bridge to do business.
“When you’re basically a business where South Davis is your primary customers, you just can’t have a rent as expensive as Petrovich thinks he can charge, because he claims he can set his own market rate because no one in Davis has the same anchor tenant he has,” he said.
“Personally speaking I was never going to sign another lease there,” he added.
Mr. Robert said that if Mr. Petrovich had been proposing a new development in Davis, he would be at the public hearing to explain his business practices. He would tell the city to be careful.
“It is a free market system,” he said, but “he knows what he is doing and he takes advantage of the situation.”
“I think Davis is too nice, too good of a city to basically allow that kind of business practice in,” he said.
While David Robert is on the BEDC, he was adamant that this was a business decision and he did not want the city to take a stand on this.
Sarah Worley had also indicated, as mentioned above, that this was one area where the city did not get involved.
What seems clear, though, is that the business decisions made by those like Paul Petrovich have a detrimental impact on the city. During these tough economic times, it will be difficult for the city to have four sites in a major shopping center empty.
On the other hand, Mr. Robert spoke in glowing terms of Chuck Roe, so while Mr. Petrovich’s policies may be a problem and there are other problematic landlords, not all property owners should be painted with the same brush.
The hit coming from the loss of Borders was yet another blow to what figures to be another rough year for the city’s revenue.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
David:
You raise many interesting issues here though I am not quite sure what your takeaway is. Here is what I get out of all of this:
1. Many of us have been concerned about the BEDC–that it has over-represented local businesses. This story confirms that. But more disturbing, it is very clear that one of the members of the BEDC knows very little about how to run a business. A good businessperson would have had a longer term lease (e.g., like the Save Mart in town which is not doing well but at least has a good lease agreement) or some arrangement. Petrovich is an SOB but are you suggesting some sort of rent control for business owners? I would strongly oppose that.
2. I have been predicting that Borders would close even though the Davis store is profitable and have been pooh poohed by at least two prominent people on this site (not you). I think this is much more serious than Gottschalks, since it is an anchor store downtown. Our downtown will still be vital, but a bit less so unless a good tenant(s) is brought in.
3. The mall that Gottschalks was in is in serious trouble now (was even before Gottschalks closed. THe addition of TJs has not helped much, partly because its not in the mall, its nearby/ Malls in general are in decline across the US. Someone mentioned the County Fair Mall in Woodland the other day–its another example.
4. The broader policy issue here is urban decay–when commercial property has high vacancy rates for an extended period. There is actually no issue there at all at Oakshade. The issue is that Petrovich is an SOB perhaps, but that is not something that the City should deal with. But we have a number of shopping centers in trouble. The Save Mart in town is losing money. They will try and reconfigure the store at some point soon but I don’t think that will help. The shopping center next to the coop on G street is in trouble. One piece of good news–the shopping center on 8th street has improved with the dollar store and grocery outlet.
I blogged about UC Davis proposed hotel expansion yesterday–no responses. The time to deal with this stuff is before it happens, not after. The proposed IUC Davis expansion will damage out City’s hotel industry and lower our TOT’s.
We need strong businesses and need a BEDC with people who get it, noy owners who cannot deal with Petrovich.
The UCD hotel expansion WILL hurt our city jotel’s and I think should give pause to the Embassy Suites idea. I watched the lively debate on CC about communicating to UCD about it.
So the relocation of Caffe Italia, garage AND city hotel are all suspect in my mind. The decision to try to avoid Brown’s gobbling of RDA monies was hasty and the borrowing of additional millions not carefully thought out in my opinion. That discussion seemed to be a slam dunk which may (?is) coming back to haunt us. Apologize for typos. Font is microscopic on iPhone!
Dr. Wu:
Some very interesting thoughts. I wouldn’t say I have a takeaway. This really isn’t what I would consider my area, but it was an interesting story.
It is hard for me to put this on a business owner, when a lot of business owners have the same problem. I would hesitate to criticize him because he has put himself out there and I do think the business practices are questionable.
Could Barnes & Noble move in?
David: Perhaps I was a bit harsh but if you are running a business you need to know what you are doing and your story disturbs me but probably not for the reason one might think.
wdf1: Could Barnes and Noble take over? I don’t know. There is nothing in principle stopping them from coming in and I think the store would make them money. Its not a standard configuration for B and N, but bookstores are pretty malleable.
[quote]The UCD hotel expansion WILL hurt our city jotel’s and I think should give pause to the Embassy Suites idea. I the lively debate on CC about communicating to UCD about it.–SODA[/quote]It is in the University’s interest to support, not to undermine the City of Davis. All tax revenue from a 150 room hotel by the Mondavi center goes to the county, and the county does not use this revenue to provide municipal services for their faculty, staff and students (and IMHO, feeds a far, far greater unnecessarily large management and elected official-heavy budget than does the the city).
It is the quality of life in the city of Davis that is a primary faculty, staff and student attraction and retention asset of the University’s. Yet I feel that the University does not have a very deep understanding of this. If they did, they would be supporting the hotel-conference center that we are proposing (remember, the University does not get the revenue from the hotel by the Mondavi Center, the county does).
That said, our location is far, far more competitive than the Mondavi location. We are also planning larger conference/event facilities. We have an absolutely unique combination of freeway visibility only a two block walk from one of the best downtowns in California.
That is why we should proceed full steam ahead, while trying vigorously to convince the University that their success depends on our success, and vice versa.
[i] “… the Vanguard learned that four businesses at Oakshade Plaza in South Davis have either closed or moved in recent months. … the issue of rents has long been a concern of Davis businesses. Some are wondering if some property owners are becoming an impediment to Davis sales tax revenues.”[/i]
Economically, there can not be a situation for very long where commercial rents are too high (in places like Oakshade Plaza or elsewhere in town), unless one landlord (a monopolist) or a collusion of landlords (an oligopoly) is controlling the market.
In a reasonably competitive market, a landlord who charges more than the market will bear will suffer from lost rents. Even losing a month or two of rent each year will likely cause greater losses to the landlord than he will gain by achieving a super-market rent for the time his space is occupied.
That said, I don’t really know how competitive the commercial rental market is in Davis. I don’t know how many companies own the various possible units. I don’t know if the big landlords collude with each other to act as an oligopoly, driving up the rents. If that does happen, it’s not unlikely that the small landlords–those who say own just one building–take their unspoken cues from the oligopolists in setting their own rents.
In normal market conditions, even if a monopolistic or oligopolistic situation develops, it should break down over time as new competitors are drawn in by the profits falling on the current landlords. However, Davis does not have normal market conditions. For one, we have a limited physical space which forms our downtown core; and two, we have a political process which works hard to limit pereipheral growth, which itself would bring on competition.
So if a lot of local retailers and restaurateurs are saying the landlords are raising rents to unaffordable levels, there probably is some truth in that.
Correction: “… we have a political process which works hard to limit [s]pereipheral[/s] [b]peripheral[/b] growth …”
DOC: [i]”I have been predicting that Borders would close even though the Davis store is profitable and have been pooh poohed by at least two prominent people on this site (not you).”[/i]
I have been one of the two who has “pooh-poohed” you. Not for predicting that Borders would close. But for predicting that the closure of Borders will be a disaster for downtown Davis and for Davis in general.
I would have offered to bet you that the Borders space would be filled by a new anchor tenant within a few months. However, I won’t make that bet offer because I received some inside information that there is a problem with the foundation in that building and that, if it is necessary, the owner of the property will use the closure period to repair the foundation. So that might mean it will take 6 months, not 2 or 3, to bring someone new in there. But no doubt, due to its excellent location and pleasant atmosphere, the Davis Commons will thrive in the future without Borders.
[i]”I think this is much more serious than Gottschalks, since it is an anchor store downtown. Our downtown will still be vital, but a bit less so unless a good tenant(s) is brought in.”[/i]
Why would you think, if it is what you think, a good tenant would not be brought into the erstwhile Borders site?
What amazes me, as a nearby neighbor of the University Mall, is that after Safeway left, and after State Market failed, and after Gottschalks corporation went under, that a national retailer like Forever 21 would give that small mall, strangely configured mall a try. I am surprised that shopping center is doing as well as it is. The parking lot is always full. Trader Joe’s is usually quite busy. The Graduate and the other frontal businesses seem to be thriving.
What most of you newbies probably don’t know is that when the University Mall opened in 1964, the downtown merchants were up in arms against it. They said it would destroy the downtown. The U-Mall was the first shopping center built west of the Mississippi with air conditioning. The downtown clothing stores, the five and dimes, the pharmacies, the catalog stores, the one Chinese restaurant and so on were certain that it was going to spell the demise of the downtown.
The 1964 debate–I should note that I was born in 1964 and did not choose to move to Davis until August of 1965 so my knowledge of the controversy came through reading The Enterprise–was pretty much on par with the Target debate of a few years back.
“[i]…it is very clear that one of the members of the BEDC knows very little about how to run a business. A good businessperson would have had a longer term lease…”[/i]
Small businesses don’t usually have much leverage when it comes to the terms of leases. It’s pretty much take-it-or-leave-it.
[i] The downtown clothing stores, the five and dimes, the pharmacies, the catalog stores, the one Chinese restaurant and so on were certain that it was going to spell the demise of the downtown. [/i]
You mean, all the retailers that then closed within the next few years?
[quote]Mr. Robert said that if Mr. Petrovich had been proposing a new development in Davis, he would be at the public hearing to explain his business practices. He would tell the city to be careful.
“It is a free market system,” he said, but “he knows what he is doing and he takes advantage of the situation.”
“I think Davis is too nice, too good of a city to basically allow that kind of business practice in,” he said.
While David Robert is on the BEDC, he was adamant that this was a business decision and he did not want the city to take a stand on this.[/quote]
What “business practice” is being referred to here? Charging too much rent? That is entirely up to the owner of the building how much rent s/he wants to charge. Some malls have ended up virtually empty bc an owner will not budge on price. The West Lake Plaza comes to mind. A large group (can’t remember the name) pulled out bc the rents were too high. The mall has stubbornly remained vacant for literally years. But the city has absolutely no control over something like this. How the mall owner can afford years of high vacancy rates is beyond me…
To Dr. Wu: Nicely said!
[quote]It is the quality of life in the city of Davis that is a primary faculty, staff and student attraction and retention asset of the University’s. Yet I feel that the University does not have a very deep understanding of this. If they did, they would be supporting the hotel-conference center that we are proposing (remember, the University does not get the revenue from the hotel by the Mondavi Center, the county does).
That said, our location is far, far more competitive than the Mondavi location. We are also planning larger conference/event facilities. We have an absolutely unique combination of freeway visibility only a two block walk from one of the best downtowns in California. [/quote]
With all due respect, and I do mean that sincerely, the University can do what it wants; it does not have to answer to Davis for what it does; the city of Davis has not always been very cooperative with UCD – in fact just the opposite (remember the West Village “debates”); to say that the city’s conference center will be so much better than UCD’s conference center is hardly going to endear the city to UCD and make UCD more cooperative.
[i]”You mean, all the retailers that then closed within the next few years?”[/i]
Yes.
And yet downtown Davis has continued to thrive, while the University Mall has had a lot of ups and downs.
As you know, having lived here since the early 1970s (I think that is what you told me), downtown Davis 40 years ago was a pretty typical commercial core for an American city of its size at that time. It was where most Davis residents went for most clothing, banking, books, stationery, appliances, bikes, electronics, TVs, shoes, hardware, plants, furniture, hair-cuts, etc., etc. There were two places to buy groceries (State Market at 2nd & D and Safeway at 6th & G) and there was a meat market (Stan’s). There were at least 4 gas stations (Russell & B, 1st & B, two at 5th & G). And there was a Ford dealership, a Sears and a Montgomery Ward catalog and a much larger Davis Sport Shop. And there were two movie theaters, one screen each.
Other than Davis Lumber (Ace) and Hibbert’s, some banks and thrifts, B&L, and a small number of other mostly non-retail businesses, everything has changed downtown. In part, that is just the nature of capitalism. It’s what Joseph Schumpeter has termed “creative destruction.”
We are so fortunate that so many great restaurants and cafes and galleries and boutiques have replaced the old outlets. No longer do most Davisites do most of their shopping downtown. But more people than ever–including a lot of out-of-towners who love Davis–go downtown to enjoy the atmosphere and patronize the companies we have. Otherwise, it would not be so darned hard to find a good parking space in peak times. (As it happens, I was going to get lunch today at Mikuni at Davis Commons, but the parking lot was full. So we went out to Caffe Italia, instead.)
[quote]“…downtown Davis 40 years ago was a pretty typical commercial core for an American city of its size at that time. It was where most Davis residents went for most clothing, banking, books, stationery, appliances, bikes, electronics, TVs, shoes, hardware, plants, furniture, hair-cuts, etc., etc.”[/quote]Ahhh, thanks for the reminder. Guess it’ll never be that way again. Will you be running over to the South Davis auto row to Caffe Italia after we’ve shoved it out of its present, handy location?
[i]”Will you be running over to the South Davis auto row to Caffe Italia after we’ve shoved it out of its present, handy location?”[/i]
Probably not. I really like Caffe Italia, but that location on Chiles is out of my way (living in the Sycamore Lane neighborhood).
I don’t have much optimism that any restaurant can succeed there, as the traffic is not that great and the siting of the buildings on the property is stupid. It would probably make more sense to try to attract an auto dealer whose brand is unavailable now in Davis. Or maybe some other business which benefits from having the existing auto dealers nearby.
[quote]With all due respect, and I do mean that sincerely, the University can do what it wants; it does not have to answer to Davis for what it does;E. Roberts Musser[/quote]With all do respect, E. Roberts, the record clearly shows that other host cities that have stood up for their rights vis-a-vis the University have done very well.
But the real issue is that the city IS the University in that most of its faculty, students and staff live in the City of Davis. And the most sought after faculty, students and staff will tell you that the reason they chose and choose to remain in Davis despite great offers elsewhere is often primarily because of the quality of life in the City of Davis. I can’t tell you how many times I have heard this from the University’s top faculty.
We have to continue to work to convince the University that the quality of life of their faculty, students and staff will be adversely affected if they continue to allow the building of competing retail and hotels in the unincorporated county, and hence it is in their own best interest to work with us.
And we DO have the best site.
[quote]Will you be running over to the South Davis auto row to Caffe Italia after we’ve shoved it out of its present, handy location? –Just Saying[/quote]As I have mentioned before, Cafe Italia is nearing the end of their extremely below-market lease. They understand that rent this low will not continue, and are understandably looking for a permanent location. They would have to leave this location in a few years, regardless.
A popular restaurant can be a draw all by itself, as shown by the success of Symposium over the many ups and downs (mostly downs) of the shopping center they’re in.
Yes, I arrived here in 1974, though I had actually come to visit in about 1968 when my dad attended a conference here; we walked through the hort dept greenhouses and I became enchanted with the whole place.
[i]everything has changed downtown. In part, that is just the nature of capitalism.[/i]
Mostly, the face of any downtown is a product of the urban planning practiced, intentionally or not, by that city.
[i]We have an absolutely unique combination of freeway visibility only a two block walk from [b]one of the best downtowns in California.[/b] [/i]
I would suggest this is a very parochial view of the Davis downtown. It is not scenic, the restaurants are very mediocre (save 1 or 2), the mix of retailers in Davis is unappealing. Additionally, the walk to downtown from the hotel would be through one of the most appealing walking gateways to a downtown of which I am aware – crowded, exhaust filled, dangerous. But, it is our downtown, and that alone is reason for Davisites to love it!
[quote]“They would have to leave this location in a few years, regardless.”[/quote]So, it sounds as though Cafe Italia is really anxious to get out of that semi-permanent spot that’s been so successful. How many years are left on their lease, and are we planning to use up some RDA money to get them to leave early?
How are we so sure that they wouldn’t have been able to renegotiate a new lease that would be satisfactory to both parties? Are you suggesting that they also have an unreasonable landlord? (Come to think of it, whose property will this be after RDA changes the picture?)
I’m sure the restaurant owners have carefully considered this move, but I’d be concerned that they could be headed down David Robert’s track (moving into an inconvenient location that hasn’t worked for any enterprise for years). Every weekend we’re there, we see lots of UCD-age folks with what appears to be visiting parents. What will replace that part of their clientele?
IMHO the Davis Creamery failed because their product was too expensive for the location. When you get a $6 burrito or a $4 sub, who wants to pay $2.50 for a scoop of ice cream?
I’m also not surprised about Mermaids (their food was terrible) or the makeup store (too specialized and too many sq ft for a neighborhood shopping center).
Quiznos never seemed to have many customers with Dos Coyotes two doors down.
Isn’t the Yolo Federal Credit Union also moving out to a new building at 4th and G?
Yes, the credit union is moving.
If the rent in that shopping center is in fact nearly $5/foot, I’ll be very surprised if the owner can get new tenants readily in the current market. Maybe he knows something we don’t know about the trends in the retail market. Or maybe he has enough property that he doesn’t mind taking a loss for awhile; the Davis Creamery site has been empty for quite awhile. Or maybe his business decisions aren’t rational.
[quote]With all do respect, E. Roberts, the record clearly shows that other host cities that have stood up for their rights vis-a-vis the University have done very well. [/quote]
But have the other host cities been as arrogant and obstreperous? If the city wants UCD to cooperate, then it needs to approach the University in the spirit of collaboration, not mortal combat…
[quote]If the city wants UCD to cooperate, then it needs to approach the University in the spirit of collaboration, not mortal combat… [/quote]
Completely agree.
[i]Isn’t the Yolo Federal Credit Union also moving out to a new building at 4th and G?[/i]
For the record, they are erecting a new building at 5th & G, where the old Hoffmann’s 76 station used to be.
[i]”When you get a $6 burrito or a $4 sub, who wants to pay $2.50 for a scoop of ice cream?”[/i]
I agree with you on this. Maybe others with a lot more money than I have do not. To my amazement, the very high prices at Icekrimski Cafe (next to the Varsity Theatre) don’t seem to be dissuading too many customers. For my taste, $3.50 for a very small gelato was too steep.
[img]http://uppermidwestgourmet.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/gelatoone0624_big.jpg[/img]
[i]”… the [b]walk[/b] to downtown from the hotel would be … crowded, exhaust filled, dangerous.”[/i]
I’ve walked through the bicycle bore a thousand times. I have never found it crowded, exhaust filled or in the least bit dangerous. I think you are assuming, because it is next to the crowded and exhaust filled driving underpass that the same conditions exist in the bicycle bore. I am also pretty sure if you are assuming that, that you have never walked through the bicycle bore. It’s perfectly safe and quiet and the air is good. The only real problem in the bicycle bore is that it gets tagged with an inordinate amount of graffiti and people who are promoting a rock show of some sort will often glue a large number of handbills to its walls.
[i]”Davis downtown … is not scenic, the restaurants are very mediocre (save 1 or 2), the mix of retailers in Davis is unappealing.”[/i]
In my opinion, downtown Davis is great looking. Its greatest charm is the mature tree canopy. That is part of the reason we need to be wary of densification.
Of course there are a great number of buildings with poor, post-War architecture. However, there are a handful of beautiful old buildings–Anderson Bank Building, the SP Depot, the Davis Community Church, the Brinley Block, and the Hunt-Boyer Mansion immediately come to mind. And a lot of the buildings erected or remodeled in the last dozen years have been great contributors, including the Chen Building, the Roe Bldg, the Burgers & Brew remodel, the Lofts, the Crepeville Bldg at 3rd & C, and the new Mishka’s Cafe building. There are also a good number of modest residential cottages which contribute to the pleasant feeling of our core area, from Central Park to the train station.
[quote]But have the other host cities been as arrogant and obstreperous? —E. Roberts[/quote]The way persist in defining “arrogant and obstreperous, the answer is most definitely “yes”. In fact, Elaine, the city of Davis has always had among the most cooperative relationships with its University compared to other host cities.
But that doesn’t mean that the city should not do everything in its power to make sure that the city and University planning is mutually beneficial if the University drops the ball.
Also, I just don’t understand your hostile tone.
[b]Sue[/b], I’m taken aback by your comments about the university. Sounds like you’ve already picked a fight for several reasons.
Re. one of them: Have UCD officials announced opposition to the city getting into the motel-conference center business? (I missed the last RDA/CC meetings.)
Another one: Why state that our proposed conference center site is better than theirs?
And: Why claim that quality of the city is more important than the quality of the university in attraction for UCD faculty and staff?
What reasons do we have to take on UCD? I obviously need to read up in the “record” that supports your contention:[i][quote]“…the record clearly shows that other host cities that have stood up for their rights vis-a-vis the University have done very well.”[/quote][/i] Where can one find the record?
[quote]Where can one find the record? — JustSaying [/quote]The Marina case, Berkeley, Riverside.
Why do I know that the quality of life in the City of Davis is often the pivotal factor in and faculty attraction and retention? For one, my husband works for the University and has been involved in many recruitment efforts over 23 years, because I have many, many friends and acquaintances who are faculty members who have told me this, etc. It’s a fact.
One thing people have to understand is that the University isn’t “building” a hotel. They would like to see a great hotel close to the University. There is absolutely no reason that they should undermine our efforts, because they do not get the tax revenue — the county does. And it is the city, not the county, that provides the municipal services and quality of life for University students, faculty and staff.
It is also clearly better planning to have a major hotel that is synergistic to the downtown rather than in an isolated area far from the downtown. If you can’t see that, I just have to hope that others do.
Again and again, I have to point out that it is in the University’s best interest to cooperate with the city because it is the city that provides the municipal services and the quality of life enjoyed by their faculty, students and staff, and not the county. Over half a million dollars worth of tax revenue every year and the improved quality and vitality of our downtown are at stake.
Correct me, but as I remember it, the conference center has been in UCD’s plans/approvals for a long time. It seems there will be four significant groups of users: university types whose days will be completely occupied on-campus, relatives of students (and prospective students) visiting campus, out-of-town folks here for on-campus sports events and people attending Mondavi Center (also visible from I-5) programs.
For those who can’t wait to get to “one of the best downtowns in California,” I’d bet they get here and back on frequent UniTrans runs set up for that purpose.
I’m not sure the University leaders spend much time worrying which direction sales taxes travel from businesses on school property. UCD planners know what our attitudes are about new developments and they plan projects they feel meet their needs. If we’re obligated to provide services regardless of where development happens, it’s understandable they’ll understandable they’ll select what they feel works best for them.
They also probably think we’re more intereested in generating sales tax than in meeting their needs.
[quote]Also, I just don’t understand your hostile tone.[/quote]
I just don’t understand your “hostile tone”, or that of many citizens of Davis towards UCD, to wit:
1) How about the West Village Wars, where angry opponents of the project had to be physically removed from the premises?
2) How about comments the city’s hotel conference center is better than UCD’s conference center?
3) How about comments the city’s quality is more important than UCD’s quality?
How is this constructive? How is this going to get UCD to do what the city wants? How is this going to build a collaborative relationship between the City and UCD?
Quality is a very slippery term, and frankly its determination rests in the eye of the beholder. I have talked to plenty of people who feel UCD is the draw in this town, not the city itself at all. I would not presume to assume Davis is better than ___________________. That is entirely a matter of opinion. There is a reason Davis has a reputation for being an extremely hoity toity and arrogant city. I would like to think every destination has its own unique charms…
[quote]Sue, I’m taken aback by your comments about the university. Sounds like you’ve already picked a fight for several reasons.
Re. one of them: Have UCD officials announced opposition to the city getting into the motel-conference center business? (I missed the last RDA/CC meetings.)
Another one: Why state that our proposed conference center site is better than theirs?
And: Why claim that quality of the city is more important than the quality of the university in attraction for UCD faculty and staff?
What reasons do we have to take on UCD?[/quote]
Nicely said!
I wish Italia would move to Borders.
Elaine: How can you suggest these things are subjective? Anyone can objectively see how the Scout Cabin could be a bigger draw than the Mondavi Center if we’d just get Caffe Italia out of the way! Other than that, I agree with your points.