Commentary: Deep in the Heart of Blue Country… The Reaction

Trump-protest

In many ways, I have never seen anything like this.  I was very young in 1980 when Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter, and a dozen or so longtime Democratic Senators, many of them stalwarts of the opposition to Vietnam, lost.  I was in college in 1994 when the Republicans took back Congress – but, unlike this year, everyone kind of saw it coming, even if the magnitude was shocking.

In 2000, we were perplexed and bemused by the turn of events in Florida and the ultimate public recount and shutdown of process by the Supreme Court

Nothing compares to what happened on Tuesday.  Part of it, again, is that no one really saw it coming, believing – wrongly so in retrospect – in the accuracy of polling.  Part of it is the deep divide in the country where, at last check, the vote difference in the popular vote was only about 20,000 and only the contours of the nation and the Electoral College have pushed the column in one direction.

But this was a different campaign and this is a different candidate, and that has ramped up the anxiety.  The talk about building a wall and deportation has a lot of people on edge.

It started late on Tuesday/early on Wednesday when several hundred UC Davis students marched through campus and into downtown Davis, apparently protesting the election of Donald Trump.

Davis police reported that the students walked into the city, blocking some streets for a short time before heading back onto campus. They were not disruptive, however, according to police accounts.

As it turns out, UC Davis and Davis were not alone, as protests broke out across the nation – some of them blocking freeways and some burning flags.

While I understand the frustration – it seems to be a lot of “too little, too late.”  It is not clear their goal or even what they can do.

UC President Janet Napolitano issued a statement midday on Wednesday, “In light of yesterday’s election results, we know there is understandable consternation and uncertainty among members of the University of California community.  The University of California is proud of being a diverse and welcoming place for students, faculty, and staff with a wide range of backgrounds, experiences and perspectives.  Diversity is central to our mission.

“We remain absolutely committed to supporting all members of our community and adhering to UC’s Principles Against Intolerance.  As the Principles make clear, the University ‘strives to foster an environment in which all are included’ and ‘all are given an equal opportunity to learn and explore.’  The University of California will continue to pursue and protect these principles now and in the future, and urges our students, faculty, staff, and all others associated with the University to do so as well.”

Later in the day, Interim Chancellor Hexter and Vice Chancellor de la Torre said, “We have heard from a number of individuals in our campus community who are concerned about the results of yesterday’s U.S. election and potential outcomes. In addition to reiterating our campus’s commitment to access and inclusion, we write to remind you that caring staff are ready to support you.”

Some are mocking this stuff.  But put that on pause for a second.  This isn’t just about losing an election for some.  I know at least one person who, I was told, tried to take their life – not sure about the exact circumstance here.

My kids were distraught at the beginning of the day.  As it turns out, they were not alone.  They would watch Trump give speeches, and were very troubled by his tenor.  He was unsettling to them.  This was above and beyond whatever cues were picked up.

But throughout the day, what I heard were that people in various communities were experiencing high anxiety.  Many people who live here legally are the children of immigrants.  Even those whose parents are legal immigrants are clearly on edge.

One of our 13-year-old’s friend’s family is leaving.  Others are packing and going to wait things out to see what happens.  Naturally, that situation is completely unnerving not just to the people involved but also to their friends.

Where my younger kids go to school at Montgomery, the situation was tense and we heard bits and pieces through the eyes of a six-year-old and five-year-old – but what we heard was very disturbing.  Kids not knowing where they are going or what is going to happen.

I think capturing this anxiety was Lorena Gonzalez, the Assemblymember who crafted and pushed through landmark legislation this year.  She posted on Facebook: “I’m so grateful to be heading to re-election with over 72% of the vote. Nonetheless, my heart is breaking tonight for every 3rd -8th grader I’ve spoken with in my district over the past year, assuring them we can beat Donald Trump… that their parents wouldn’t face deportation…my fingers are crossed, but I am so afraid for my district.”

I talked to candidates across our area and that was the overwhelming sentiment.  Those who won were grateful, but concerned about the national picture.  Those who were defeated were more distraught about what happened nationally than locally.

It is not just the Hispanic Community that is on edge.  The Arab-American organization CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) put out a note that suggested that anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim sentiment had increased markedly in the past year and the concerns of the Muslim community have increased.

Donald Trump on Tuesday said he wanted to be a president for all Americans, but clearly large groups of Americans are distrustful of that.

Some have suggested we calm down, the sky is not falling, the sun will rise in the morning – while true, people’s lives are in the balance, either directly or indirectly, and no one knows what is going to happen.  Anxiety is understandable.

—David M. Greenwald reporting

About The Author

David Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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155 thoughts on “Commentary: Deep in the Heart of Blue Country… The Reaction”

  1. Don Shor

    the vote difference in the popular vote was only about 20,000 

    Per CNN, as of 10:06 a.m. Nov. 10, Hillary Clinton has 233,404 more votes than Donald Trump.

        1. hpierce

          Well, at least in CA, we will not truly know the popular vote until the VBM/provisional ballots are canvassed… two-3 weeks out in Yolo Co.

          Theoretically, an elector of the electoral college could go rogue… se we won’t know the precise numbers until mid-December.

          No change in outcome, but in neither case will we know the final numbers for weeks… so it is, indeed, pointless to put too fine a point on it (pun intended)…

        1. South of Davis

          Don wrote:

          > The country is evenly divided. It is not “pretty red.”

          If there was a parking lot with 50 red Miatas with 2 people each and 2 blue Buses with 26 people each would you say the lot was “evenly divided” or “pretty red”?

      1. hpierce

        Some counties have maybe 5000 people living in them… others have over a million.  Congressional districts would be a more relevant graphic, where apples may be compared to apples…

        Took a quick loo, but could not google one posted yet… am pretty sure one will be available by mid-December…

    1. quielo

      Ah, you’ve been with the professors and they’ve all liked your looks

      With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks

      You’ve been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s books

      You’re very well-read, it’s well-known

      But something is happening here and you don’t know what it is

      Do you, Mr. Jones?

      -Bob Dylan

        1. Tia Will

          quielo and Frankly

          You’ve been with skilled laborers and they’ve liked your looks

          With other workers you’ve discussed terrorists and crooks

          You’ve been through all of Rand and Coulter’s books

          You’re very well read it’s well known.

          But there is something happening here and you don’t know what it is.

          Do you, Mr. Jones

          With my profound apologies to Bob Dylan. But I am completely unapologetic in my belief that willful ignorance does not adhere to any particular party or ideology.

  2. Sam

    “But throughout the day, what I heard were that people in various communities were experiencing high anxiety.  Many people who live here legally are the children of immigrants.”

    I am sure that the children of drug traffickers in the Philippines felt the same way after Duterte was elected. That is the risk you run when you do things that are illegal. Eventually enough people will get frustrated that the laws are not being enforced that they will elect an individual who promises to enforce the law. It is very unfortunate that this will also have an effect on the children.

  3. Frankly

    and that has ramped up the anxiety

    A large share of the responsibility for the ramped-up anxiety belongs to the Democrat campaign against Trump.

    I understand how this election would be depressing for a left-leaning voter.  But Trump’s platform has always been much, much less anxiety-causing than how the political left has portrayed it.  Of course it was standard in this election to do character assassination of the other candidate.  The difference is that many seem to have adopted the hyperbole as fact.

    With respect to “the wall” and the need for immigration reform, most of what has been said by Donald Trump was previously said by Hillary Clinton… until she pivoted when the voter numbers appeared to favor a pivot (seems a mistake was made there).

    I understand Democrats and liberals being depressed about the election results… especially given that the SCOTUS dreams of theirs that will never materialize in their lifetimes; but the high-anxiety is generally just self-induced.

    Half the population and a huge majority of the territory just did what our democratic system was designed to do… put the country back on track for benefiting the population and the territory.

     

    1. Barack Palin

      Well said Frankly.

      Here’s a few issues where I’ll look into my crystal ball since the left is doing the same thing:

      I think we’ll find that the only illegals getting deported will be the criminals.  Does anyone really have a problem with that?

      Also the actual brick and mortar wall my never get built, instead we’ll see a wall of increased border guards (who were pro Trump because their hands were tied under Obama) and better surveillance technology.   When the wall gets built it will have a door in it for legal immigration.

      He said he’ll do a better job of having refugees vetted before they’re allowed to come in.  Once again, is that a problem?

      All this hysteria about children crying I think can be traced directly back to their hysterical parents getting them all worked up because they’re angry that Trump won.

      1. Alan Miller

        >All this hysteria about children crying I think can be traced directly back to their hysterical parents getting them all worked up because they’re angry that Trump won.

        Pretty much.

      2. Misanthrop

        “I think we’ll find that the only illegals getting deported will be the criminals.  Does anyone really have a problem with that?”

        But you can’t be sure and that is the source of much anxiety.

        A kid asked me “Will my aunt be forced to leave the country? ”

        “No” I replied, “She is here legally, she has all her documents, she has a green card.”

        The child was relieved. But it got me to thinking and wondering what it was like in 1932 when Hitler was elected Chancellor of Germany. Imagine the next day and people were wondering, is he really going to do what he said?

        We will know soon enough by how he deals with the hate he has enabled to be unleashed. If he demands that acts of violence against immigrants and others not be tolerated and that the rule of law must be respected and enforced there is hope. But if he allows vigilantism to fester like at his rallies  then we can expect things to get much worse before they get better.

        1. Alan Miller

          >But it got me to thinking and wondering what it was like in 1932 when Hitler . . .

          I wondered how long until Hitler would be evoked.

          >My kids . . . would watch Trump give speeches, and were very troubled by his tenor.  He was unsettling to them.

          They probably would have been good canaries for the evils of Hitler, I’m sure.

        2. Barack Palin

          But if he allows vigilantism to fester like at his rallies  then we can expect things to get much worse before they get better.

          Once again, watch the Okeefe videos which showed Democrat operatives talking about how they paid agigators to disrupt Trump rallies.  Most of the vigilantism at Trump rallies was coming from the left, not Trump supporters.

          BTW, you get the award for the first example of Godwin’s Law today.

        3. Marina Kalugin

          and that is also why I am in favor of opening the flood gates at the halfway houses and jails and work camps in CA….

          the pc gullible canaries are the ones who are crying and protesting, that is unless the unions are paying them off, right?

        4. Marina Kalugin

          is anyone here really that gullible that they think the likes of Homeland Security doesn’t know who is here in CA?

          It is all because the border patrol gets their jollies from the drugs being smuggled in…they, like guards and cops, are often in cahoots with the crims…on the other side of the bars.

          Anyone recall the recent “aflluenza” case….?  

          this rich kid’s defense was Affluenza right?

          he and mommy fled to MX>>.and from MX – they got the kid deported out of the country in days if not hours? …why would MX tolerate a criminal, right?

          follow the money and learn the truth…

          I was trying to beat many of you folks on many topics with 2 x 4s figuratively speaking and then they are still here….  spouting pc platitudes and ignoring the inconvenient truth…

          come visit in MX and you all may understand, right?

          HItler fluoridated the jews in the concentration camps…to keep them docile and easily manipulated….right? learn some F history for a change

          the donald drinks the water, and can go 24/7 without a break… he is no Hilter but the HRC has direct bloodlines to those Rothcshilds ba@@@@@@@@@

           

           

      3. Tia Will

        BP

        Excuse me for stating the obvious. In the case that I quoted it was a girl being told by another that she was going to be put on the “Trump train “.  This is hardly a quote that came from her parents. You don’t allow for any possibility that this child of obvious Trump supporters was obviously fomenting fear in a classmate ?

    2. Eric Gelber

      A large share of the responsibility for the ramped-up anxiety belongs to the Democrat campaign against Trump.

      No. The anxiety is justified and is based on things Trump himself has said: Rounding up and deporting millions of undocumented immigrants; banning Muslims or singling them out for extreme vetting; demeaning women and threatening them with criminal sanctions for obtaining abortions; mocking people with disabilities; threatening health care coverage for millions; calling Mexicans rapists; allowing open carry in schools, cozying up to the Alt Right, etc.

        1. Tia Will

          Frankly

          Every single one of the “claims” put forth by Eric can be confirmed because they are all on film. I have directly seen Trump say at rallies or during interviews as paraphrased:

          1. that his intent was to round up and deport millions of undocumented citizens

          2. that we should ban all Muslims, then backed down to those not passing “severe vettng”

          3. that for women who underwent abortion, “there should be some punishment”. That one is emblazoned on my memory since I could not believe that he had said it.

          4. There is a tape in which, at a rally, he made gestures mimicking a reporter with disabilities.

          5. He definitely called Mexicans rapists….although to be fair to him….he did speculate that a few of them could be good people.

          5. Saying that you will repeal Obamacare without having a fully fleshed out alternative to transition to immediately is the equivalent of depriving millions of health insurance.

          6. I haven’t seen any tape or quote about open carry in schools, so can’t vouch for that one.

          7. And while I cannot prove it, I strongly suspect that our president elect does indeed know who David Duke is although he denied it when he was asked if he would accept his support. He also made the statement that he did not know anything about the KKK although he walked that one back doubtless at the recommendation of a handler given the amount of time needed for him to disavow their recommendation.

          And you don’t need to take my word for it. All that is necessary is to Google his name and the key word from each point and you can watch him, in his own words, live.

           

        2. Frankly

          I note quite a bit of intellectual dishonesty here…

          TIA: 1. that his intent was to round up and deport millions of undocumented citizens
          His actually platform is:
          1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.
          2. End catch-and-release. Under a Trump administration, anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained until they are removed out of our country.
          3. Move criminal aliens out day one, in joint operations with local, state, and federal law enforcement. We will terminate the Obama administration’s deadly, non-enforcement policies that allow thousands of criminal aliens to freely roam our streets.
          4. End sanctuary cities.
          5. Immediately terminate President Obama’s two illegal executive amnesties. All immigration laws will be enforced – we will triple the number of ICE agents. Anyone who enters the U.S. illegally is subject to deportation. That is what it means to have laws and to have a country.
          6. Suspend the issuance of visas to any place where adequate screening cannot occur, until proven and effective vetting mechanisms can be put into place.
          7. Ensure that other countries take their people back when we order them deported.
          8. Ensure that a biometric entry-exit visa tracking system is fully implemented at all land, air, and sea ports.
          9. Turn off the jobs and benefits magnet. Many immigrants come to the U.S. illegally in search of jobs, even though federal law prohibits the employment of illegal immigrants.
          10. Reform legal immigration to serve the best interests of America and its workers, keeping immigration levels within historic norms.
          Protect the economic well-being of the lawful immigrants already living here by curbing uncontrolled foreign worker admissions
          Select immigrants based on their likelihood of success in the U.S. and their ability to be financially self-sufficient.
          TIA: 2. that we should ban all Muslims, then backed down to those not passing “severe vettng”
          TRUMP
          Vet applicants to ensure they support America’s values, institutions and people, and temporarily suspend immigration from regions that export terrorism and where safe vetting cannot presently be ensured.
          TIA: 3. that for women who underwent abortion, “there should be some punishment”. That one is emblazoned on my memory since I could not believe that he had said it.
          This is an intellectually dishonest claim full of hyperbole and lacking in anything close to the nuanced thinking you apply to everything else supporting your worldview.  http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/mar/30/context-transcript-donald-trump-punishing-women-ab/ 
          TIA: 4. There is a tape in which, at a rally, he made gestures mimicking a reporter with disabilities.
          TRUMP: “I have no idea who this reporter, Serge Kovalski [sic], is, what he looks like or his level of intelligence. I don’t know if he is J.J. Watt or Muhammad Ali in his prime or somebody of less athletic or physical ability. Despite having one of the all-time great memories, I certainly do not remember him.”
          I merely mimicked what I thought would be a flustered reporter trying to get out of a statement he made long ago. If Mr. Kovaleski is handicapped, I would not know because I do not know what he looks like. If I did know, I would definitely not say anything about his appearance.”
          TIA: 5. He definitely called Mexicans rapists….although to be fair to him….he did speculate that a few of them could be good people.
          Again – intellectually dishonest.  He was talking about illegal immigrants from Mexico.
          TIA: 5. Saying that you will repeal Obamacare without having a fully fleshed out alternative to transition to immediately is the equivalent of depriving millions of health insurance.
          Intellectually dishonest… he says replace it with something better.  Which will not be too difficult given how crappy it is.
          TIA: 6. I haven’t seen any tape or quote about open carry in schools, so can’t vouch for that one.
          Then why type it if you cannot vouch for it?
          TIA: 7. And while I cannot prove it, I strongly suspect that our president elect does indeed know who David Duke is although he denied it when he was asked if he would accept his support. He also made the statement that he did not know anything about the KKK although he walked that one back doubtless at the recommendation of a handler given the amount of time needed for him to disavow their recommendation.
          You are wallowing in the gutter now.  Not impressive at all.

          1. David Greenwald Post author

            In 2015,Trump said he would round up “in a very humane way” the millions of undocumented immigrants in the country and send them back to their native countries.

            In an interview in September 2015 on 60 Minutes, Scott Pelley asked Trump about what he would do with existing immigrant.

            Pelley: “Eleven, 12 million illegal immigrants –”

            Trump: “Or whatever the number is.”

            Pelley: “Still in the country, what do you do?”

            Trump: “If they’ve done well, they’re going out and they’re coming back in legally. Because you said it–”

            Pelley: “You’re rounding them all up?”

            Trump: “We’re rounding ’em up in a very humane way, in a very nice way. And they’re going to be happy because they want to be legalized. And, by the way, I know it doesn’t sound nice. But not everything is nice.”

            Trump also discussed having a “deportation force” to remove undocumented immigrants from the country.

        1. Eric Gelber

          Ah, yes, BP. The Trump pivot, the right’s favorite dance step. And false equivalences, the favorite tactic of Trump defenders. Obama’s reference was unfortunate; but, he was poking fun at himself, not singling out an individual for ridicule and mocking their disability. It’s sad that you can’t recognize the difference.

      1. tribeUSA

        DG and Tia–yes, some of the things Trump said about illegals on the campaign trail would be of legitimate concern to many latino americans; mainly (1) his statement about illegal immigrants being murderers and rapists–and I assume a few good ones! (2) His earlier statement about deporting all illegal immigrants.

        The first statement was stupid because of its ambiguity (where it could easily be interpreted that most illegals are violent and rapists)–a more clear and accurate statement would be that most illegals are honest and hardworking; but a substantial number are hardened criminals, violent felons, and members of violent gangs, and that we need better border security to ensure that such people do not enter the country.

        Re the second statement; he did a couple months ago publicly state that he will not do this; and as Frankly has posted his official platform does not include this action.

        I would recommend that students and other illegals who may be concerned about them or their relatives or friends getting deported be educated as to Mr. Trump’s official platform, as Frankly has posted. My guess is that; with the exception of violent felons and members of violent gangs and criminal cartels (who will hopefully be deported); there will be legislation approved for a path to citizenship offered within a few years; which might include things like 2 years of compulsory national service (military or civil service) after high school graduation (or starting at age 19); as I believe was put forward by the US congress a few years ago. Rather than inflaming their fears; I would suggest educating illegals on the facts of Trump’s platform; and that the majority of US congressman (and of US citizens) do support some kind of a path to citizenship–after the border is secured or is being better secured!

        1. David Greenwald Post author

          While I can appreciate that reading – can you also appreciate that someone capable of making such statements will not get the benefit of the doubt from people potentially impacted from them? He has made so many inflammatory remarks that people are on edge. Plus he has put border security as one of his top priorities. I can tell you how people are reacting – there are some people who have left the country, others who are afraid to go outside, others have packed. Anxiety is high not only in the Hispanic community, but the Muslim community and the even the Asian community. There is also a fear from many that more dangerous than Trump’s policy are potential vigilante mobs that will take a less discerning approach to border security. There is a further problem that ICE agents are notoriously the worst of the worst when it comes to civil rights abuses, and they too will be empowered. There are a lot of factors here that have led to the current state of fear.

        2. tribeUSA

          DG–yes, for once I am in agreement with you here.

          It seems to me that Trump should, before Thanksgiving, clarify his position on the border and illegal aliens. I strongly suspect it will alleviate the uncertainty and fears of the latino community, with regard to their own selves or family members or friends who may be here illegally, that they will not be sought out or otherwise rounded up for deportation (unless they are some kind of hardened or serious criminal, such as violent felons or members of violent gangs or cartels).

  4. Don Shor

    This is becoming an echo chamber of anonymous Trump supporters. The man is indefensible. I don’t feel like arguing about it with people who won’t even sign their own names.  I’ll see you all when we get back to local issues. 

      1. Tia Will

        Jerry

        Trump no need to  be defended . He already won .”

        And as we all know “might makes right”.  And it is fine for all history to be written by the victors regardless of how much exploration of fear and anger and lying secured their win. This is not, repeat not my opinion. Watch him repeatedly confronted with his own words on tape with him stating that he never said that despite being caught on camera saying those exact words.

  5. Dan

    We’ve been through much, much darker times from 1968- early 1970s. Vietnam – 50,000 needless American deaths, RFK and MLK assassinations, Dem convention in Chicago, countrywide race riots, resignation of a president, living on the nuclear edge, even the Wallace assassination attempt and so much more. Lawlessness at every level, the worst of race relations and a completely polarized population. (Good music at least)

    I share the current concerns but we’ve weathered far worse.

  6. Marina Kalugin

    For the first time ever I am thankful for the Electoral College….in years past I was calling for its overturn….

    For those who are ostrich people JFK was an inside job, so was RFK, and so was 9/11….Benghazi was payback for the 9/11 setup of those who were NOT guilty..

    Follow the money, learn the truth and stop wasting my and everyone elses time…

  7. Marina Kalugin

    PS>…I am NOT anonymous….and I was a Bernie supporter, because of the likes of BO we got the Killary instead….jeez folks ….

    of the likes of the DNC, and the DGA and wifey Michele….get a grip…and do something productive

    I worked for RFK campaign and my fellow males and females in the local SF YMCA got him to come to SF..

        1. Marina Kalugin

          hey Ron… I don’t care if anyone reads my stuff and you are one of the kindest and sanest people on here…one who actually reads,  and pulls the strings….sorry but it was not a happy morning…at this rate I may not get everything done before I head out of the country again… and I only go on here to take a break ..and find even more insanity…

          if nothing else, always good for a laugh…though some is way sadder than funny

  8. Marina Kalugin

    and wtf is THIS still being moderated and I am reposting as is….

    For the first time ever I am thankful for the Electoral College….in years past I was calling for its overturn….

    For those who are ostrich people JFK was an inside job, so was RFK, and so was 9/11….Benghazi was payback for the 9/11 setup of those who were NOT guilty..

    Follow the money, learn the truth and stop wasting my and everyone elses time…

  9. Marina Kalugin

    and now this?

    BP< the last time I crossed the border from Mexicali to CA…recently….it took only minutes at the border….and yet up at that town some 50 miles up….there was a long line of cars in one line.

    while at least a dozen border patrol guys were laughing and partying and enjoying their break, while one guy obviously stoned was harassing the white elderly woman, and the malinoise was sniffing around my Sienna.

    It took at least 30 minutes to even get to that point….I was up since 4 and trying to make it 11 hours to MP ….  and I was not a happy camper….I said…why is there only one line with so many guys standing around.

    The answer was “because there is only one line”…

    Some of the others guys also had dogs  and they were all having a party..

    I said WTF is there only one line…when the government employees are standing around..

    WTF makes that okay?

    and gunned out of there….

    in MX< that would NOT be allowed….MX is soooooo much better….

    the Donald may actually get some of the lazy asses on the public dole to work or leave, right?

    Reply

  10. Barack Palin

    Later in the day, Interim Chancellor Hexter and Vice Chancellor de la Torre said, “We have heard from a number of individuals in our campus community who are concerned about the results of yesterday’s U.S. election and potential outcomes. In addition to reiterating our campus’s commitment to access and inclusion, we write to remind you that caring staff are ready to support you.”

    I heard UCD has decided to hand out consolation trophies to all students who are feeling anxiety in order for everyone to feel like a winner.

    1. Alan Miller

       

      I heard UCD has decided to hand out consolation trophies to all students who are feeling anxiety in order for everyone to feel like a winner.

      Hilarious!

      Trump supporters will no doubt be given a safe space on the UCD Campus as they are a minority.

      1. Marina Kalugin

        nah….aren’t most of them white men? that will never happen…unless they are LGBQT etc…  sorry to burst your bubble… but the supporters are all ethnicities and many are also immigrants…of different nationalities and incomes…

        but that is funny…

  11. Frankly

    So then, which of these 76 Trump promises are so scary?

    1. Build a wall along the southern border
    2. Make Mexico pay for the wall.
    3. “If I become president, we’re all going to be saying ‘Merry Christmas’ again.”
    4. Get rid of Common Core
    5. The Environmental Protection Agency might also disappear.
    6. Get rid of Obamacare and replace it with something better
    7. Knock down the regulatory walls between states for health insurance
    8. Rebuild the country’s aging infrastructure
    9. Save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security without cutting benefits.
    10. Defund Planned Parenthood.
    12. Frequently use the term “radical Islamic terrorism.”
    13. Temporarily ban most foreign Muslims from entering the United States
    14. Bar Syrian refugees from entering the country and kick out any who are already living here.
    15. Heavily surveil mosques in the United States.
    16. Create a database of Syrian refugees.
    17. Never take a vacation while serving as president.
    18. Prosecute Hillary Clinton
    19. Make medical marijuana widely available to patients, and allow states to decide if they want to fully legalize pot or not.
    20. Stop spending money on space exploration
    21. Pick Supreme Court justices who are “really great legal scholars.”
    22. Ensure that Iowa continues to host the nation’s first presidential nominating contest.
    23. Strengthen the military
    25. Allow Russia to deal with the Islamic State in Syria
    26. “Bomb the s— out of ISIS.”
    27. Target and kill the relatives of terrorists.
    28. Shut down parts of the Internet so that Islamic State terrorists cannot use it to recruit American children.
    29. Bring back waterboarding,
    30. Leave troops in Afghanistan because it’s such “a mess.” Protect Israel. And increase U.S. military presence in the East and South China Seas.
    31. Find an “out” clause in the Iran deal and then “totally” renegotiate the whole thing.
    33. Refuse to call Iran’s leader by his preferred title.
    34. Negotiate the release of all U.S. prisoners held in Iran before taking office
    36. Find great generals — like the next Gen. Patton or Gen. MacArthur — and do not allow them to go onto television news shows to explain their military strategy:
    37. Drop that “dirty, rotten traitor” Bowe Bergdahl out of an airplane into desolate Afghanistan without a parachute.
    38. Fire “the corrupt and incompetent” leaders of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
    39. Invest more heavily in programs that help military veterans transition back to civilian life,
    40. Bring back jobs from Chinaand Mexico, Japan and elsewhere.
    41. “I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created.”
    42. Students at Wofford College in South Carolina, where Trump attended a town hall, will all have jobs at graduation.
    43. Aggressively challenge China’s power in the world
    44. Rather than throw the Chinese president a state dinner, buy him “a McDonald’s hamburger and say we’ve got to get down to work.”
    45. Replace “free trade” with “fair trade.”
    46. Put billionaire hedge fund manager Carl Icahn in charge of trade negotiations with China and Japan,
    47. Tell Ford Motor Co.’s president that unless he cancels plans to build a massive plant in Mexico, the company will face a 35 percent tax on cars imported back into the United States.
    48. Force Nabisco to once again make Oreos in the United States.
    49. Impose new taxes on many imports into the country.
    50. Grow the nation’s economy by at least 6 percent.
    51. Reduce the $18 trillion national debt
    52. Cut the budget by 20 percent by simply renegotiating.
    53. Get rid of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.
    54. Simplify the U.S. tax code and reduce the number of tax brackets from seven to four.
    55. No longer charge income tax to single individuals earning less than $25,000 per year or couples earning less than $50,000.
    56. Ensure that Americans can still afford to golf.
    57. Allow corporations a one-time window to transfer money being held overseas,
    58. Get rid of most corporate tax loopholes or incentives,
    59. On his first day in office, Trump would get rid of gun-free zones at military bases and in schools.
    60. Use “common sense” to fix the mental health system and prevent mass shootings.
    61. Impose a minimum sentence of five years in federal prison for any violent felon who commits a crime using a gun,
    62. Fix the background check system used when purchasing guns
    63. Allow concealed-carry permits to be recognized in all 50 states.
    64. Sign an executive order calling for the death penalty for anyone found guilty of killing a police officer.
    65. Provide more funding for police training.
    66. And provide more funding for drug treatment, especially for heroin addicts.
    67. On the first day in office, terminate President Obama’s executive orders related to immigration.
    68. Deport the almost 11 million immigrants illegally living in the United States.
    69. Triple the number of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers.
    70. Continue to allow lowly paid foreign workers to come to the United States on temporary works visas
    71. End birthright citizenship.
    72. Say things that are politically incorrect,
    73. Make America great again
    74. Be a cheerleader for America and bring the country’s spirit back.
    75. Bring back the American Dream.
    76. Start winning again.

    1. Tia Will

      Frankly

      The incident I recounted occurred in Stockton in my daughter’s middle school class. Now you can cast aspersions on the veracity of this statement all you like, but my daughter was there when it happened.

      And with regard to your “scary quotes”. It is not that they are scary to me, it is that most of them are completely offensive, repugnant, or antithetical to what I define as “great about America” and my definition of the “American Dream”.  Other “scary” quotes that you omitted are his statement on tape when asked if he acts respectfully towards women and his reply was “No, I can’t say that either” and when he stated to the Khan’s that their son would still be alive if he had been president, or when he stated that Judge Curiel could not be objective because of his Mexican heritage. “Scarier still” is his clearly stated belief in his own superiority because of his German blood.

      I am still at work, during a break, or I am sure I could match your list with completely abhorrent Trump quotes.

    2. Topcat

      20. Stop spending money on space exploration

      Granted that Donald Trump is not very knowledgeable or interested in scientific investigation, but I can’t find any evidence that he wants to end funding for space exploration.  I hope that he will appoint scientific advisors who will help him understand why our society funds scientific research and guide him to supporting funding for such research.

    1. South of Davis

      Funny that Misanthrop didn’t think #37 was “scary”

      “37. “Drop that “dirty, rotten traitor” Bowe Bergdahl out of an airplane into desolate Afghanistan without a parachute.”

       

        1. South of Davis

          When I scrolled down the list I saw a lot of “nutty right winger” (e.g. it will be funny to see the Trump school police try and take the “gun free zone” signs off the walls at Columbine HS on his 1st day in office”) but tossing a guy out of a plane without a parachute was only one that jumped out at me as “scary”…

  12. Paul Thober

    “PS>…I am NOT anonymous….and I was a Bernie supporter, because of the likes of BO we got the Killary instead….jeez folks ….” Marina Kalugin 10:36am (bolding by me)

     

    And now Ms. Kalugin is a vociferous promoter and defender of President-elect Trump. I have seen this Sen. Sanders to Mr. Trump switch quite a few times now and can’t understand how a person goes from supporting a democratic socialist to supporting a crypto-facist. I suspect the support in either case is not driven by policy, but rather the outsider/disrupter aspects of the two candidates. Can someone help me here?

     

    1. Marina Kalugin

      Before that I campaigned for Ron Paul twice and then voted for BO the first time, I also was an Al Gore supporter, a Bush supported once..I worked on Ralph Nader’s campaign and the first campaign was for RFK…..some of the other wild and crazies also…The older I get the more I vote my gut …and who I feel is trustworthy not necessarily who I agree with all the time…and sometimes at the final countdown the lesser of two evils….my biggest disappointment to date?  BO   and don’t tell me he couldn’t do things due to the majority in the senate and such…he could easily have vetoed the dark act, and you know why he didn’t?  ….those same folks were donating to HRC and he sold out the populace for his pal…too bad…

      BO will go down as the worst pres in recent decades once all the real statistics are available

        1. Marina Kalugin

          heck….since I came to the USA  right?  lets put it at the JFK presidency…. ….he was assassinated, correct?  the good ones are taken out…right? and that was also an inside job….

        2. hpierce

          So, when did you arrive is the US?  Can you show immigration documents? Your parents?  Your insights as to “inside job”?  What is meant by “inside”?

        3. Marina Kalugin

          and pray tell why I should show you any docs,,,…is that even your real name?

          and of course, I was in elementary school at lunch when it was announced on the loudspeaker, that JFK was assassinated…and one could here in the background a lot of what was happening and being said …some was in Russian right?

          I have shared this story so many times I am sick of repeating…wtf is there not a decent search function on this site, DG?

          but the DS was removing my stories as fast as I could share them,

          for a better example, I would recommend googling or rather duckduckgo….planned demolition of a highrise…and so on…

          no plane could take down a properly constucted highrise…and one of the ones flattened in 9/11 was not even hit…

          google circa 9/11 Architects and Engineers for Truth about 9/11….my dad, both grandpas and all great grandpas were structural engineers…so was my only sibling…

          Follow the money and learn the truth….right?

      1. Matt Williams

        It is a twitter post amalgamating the Wikipedia graphics and data from 2008 (see LINK), from 2012 (see LINK), and from 2016 (see LINK).  The 2016 numbers are now 60,086,008 for Trump and 60,523,087 for Clinton . . . up slightly since the original graphic was created.

        The 2004 numbers are in the same ball park.  The 2000 numbers are about 20% lower.

  13. Marina Kalugin

    and, it must be a dem  thing…

    HRC is photoshopped to not look as scarey as she does in real life.

    and the repubs are given worse pictures..

    and John McCain omg….and then BO became an even worse hawk….

    other than the pics I will have to look at this later….sure it is full of it…

     

    1. Barack Palin

      SOD, where have you been?  I’ve posted the same story twice today on two different threads.

      It’s pretty unbelievable isn’t it.  Don’t expect any responses, so far just crickets from our friends on the left.

      Imagine though if a mob of whites had beaten a black guy for voting for Obama 4 years ago?  This story would be all over the networks and liberals would’ve been in total outrage.

      I’ll say one thing, that’s a great video for the NRA.

  14. Marina Kalugin

    we had a BERNIE sign in our front yard…then it disappeared suddenly one day as the YES on A paid interns were kicked out of our house…and the other neighbors houses also…I mean they were kicked out from neighbors houses…I am the only one left on that block who still put up signs….

  15. Tia Will

    Frankly

     I haven’t seen any tape or quote about open carry in schools, so can’t vouch for that one.

    Then why type it if you cannot vouch for it?”

    To practice the intellectual honesty that you claim I do not have. I had made the statement that I could support all of his assertions directly. But when I came to this one I realized that I could not. Now I could have lied about it and claimed that I remembered it. You would never have known the difference. But I do not lie. I can make mistakes and erroneous statements and I certainly have other weaknesses but I do not knowingly lie.

          1. Don Shor

            I was just giving you proof of Tia’s assertion. Do you now acknowledge the positions he took?
            So next time before you spew stuff like

            Wow Eric – I challenge you to find cites for the actual quotes from these claims. I think you just made my point very well. Thank you.

            … try googling it. “Trump open carry schools.” Took me about 30 seconds.

  16. Frankly

    I was really hoping that the election would conclude and we would hear a few days of chatter from those unhappy… and then we would just settle in to a new political period where we would focus on the policies and actions of government.

    Democrats… look in the mirror.  Your political platform is based on a narrative of “isms” and “war against [fill in the name of some protected minority victims group]”  Hillary Clinton was a severely damaged candidate from the beginning of the election and it only got worse.  She had nothing to offer except more of the same failed and damaging Obama policies.  She was a crap candidate that only filled a liberal identity politics quota as did the Democrat candidate that won before her.

    You really have nobody to blame but yourselves.   YOU gave us Donald Trump.   Pick a better candidate next time if you really want to win the election and not just feel good about some symbolic gesture toward some token victim group.  And pick a candidate that is a uniter and not a divider like is Barack Obama.

        1. Tia Will

          BP

          And he’s your new president.”

          While this is factually true that he does hold that position, it is equally true that this man does not represent me, or my beliefs or my hopes and goals and vision for our nation. I am hoping to be available to spend a significant amount of time outside the country in the next four years My response to the frequently asked question “Where are you from” will be California. I have no desire at the present time to claim any form of allegiance to a country that would elect this empty, principle less, bullying, and by his own words racist, misogynist, eugenics supporter, white supremacist to be our leader. So while I of course will obey the laws and continue to contribute as much as I can to our society, I will not pretend that I have ever been more ashamed of my county than I am now.

        2. hpierce

          No, BP and Tia… he is our apparent president-elect… Mr Obama is our president until mid-January… as another poster might say, “jeez”… but what do I know… am not Slavic…

      1. Frankly

        We was never my choice.  But YOU supported Barack Obama.  And YOU supported Hillary Clinton on the Democrat ticket.  And so the anger boiled and the lack of good alternatives presented themselves… and we all got Trump.  And know you are doing what the members of your party and your politicians tend to do… point to others to blame them for your own mistakes and shortcomings.  That is never going to be a winning strategy.

        1. Don Shor

          point to others to blame them for your own mistakes and shortcomings.

          Stop trying to shift the blame, Frankly.
          You supported him. You voted for him. He is your responsibility. Stop trying to put it off on others. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. Your candidate won the electoral college.
          He is your responsibility. He is our president, but he does not speak for me.

        2. Frankly

          Blame?  Who am I blaming.  As far as I am concerned the better candidate won.  So why would I be blaming anyone.  I am just lecturing the losers for how they might reframe their positions and behavior so they have a better chance of winning next time.  We are all better off with better candidates.  Your candidate s_ _ _ _ d big time!

          1. Don Shor

            Your candidate s_ _ _ _ d big time!

            “My candidate” chose not to run, instead he is retiring from the vice presidency with his honor and dignity intact. The candidate I voted for is winning the popular vote by a steadily increasing margin. I don’t remember which of the 17 candidates you supported; I seem to recall you bounced around between them.

            But the candidate you voted for is only president because of an archaic system that gives disproportional weight to residents of the sparsely populated states. Odd to be disenfranchised to the point that a Wyoming resident’s vote is worth more than mine.

            It’s a reform that needs to be made. But because it has allowed two successive Republicans to take office without a popular majority, it’s pretty much guaranteed that the shrinking old white minority party will prevent that for as long as they can.

            So the candidate you voted for is president. He is our president. But he does not speak for me. I respect the office, but not the man. And any actions he takes that threaten our health or safety or rights should be resisted strenuously. Anything that puts American soldiers in harm’s way foolishly should be resisted strenuously. And it will bear repeating: he did not win the popular vote.

        3. Matt Williams

          Actually Don, the Democratic Party and Hillary herself are responsible for President-elect Donald Trump. He’s theirs.

          The Democratic Party and Hillary were unable to provide enough a positive incentive for over 9 million Obama voters to cast votes for the Democratic candidate.

          Bill Clinton told the Hillary Campaign Team that they were missing the boat, and they told him that the current Democratic Party had passed him by, and that his message “was dated.”  If one ignores the status of his zipper, Bill understands the heartbeat of the people.  The Democratic Party elite should have listened to him.

          https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw6j6L2UcAAyjNM.jpg:large

        4. Frankly

          Anything that puts American soldiers in harm’s way

          Exactly.  like the current Administration under Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton that have led us to the place where we are sending soldiers back to Iraq to be killed.

          A position of retreat and weakness does not keep soldiers safe.

          1. Don Shor

            I was a military parent under George W. Bush. I know who is exactly responsible for the deaths of American soldiers in Iraq. I voted for Obama in order that he would fulfill his promise to remove our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. Somehow, magically, after Bush left office, Republicans knew that we needed to leave troops there, that we needed to send troops back in there, that we somehow could have forced our intentions on the sovereign Iraqi government, that we just needed to bully our way back into the region and “solve” things. Looking at Trump’s national security advisers, and the fact that most of the seasoned professionals will refuse to work with him or be forced out for disloyalty, I would say the likelihood is very high that American soldiers will again be sent to Iraq to fulfill this Republican fantasy. And American troops and Iraqi citizens will again be in harm’s way.

        5. hpierce

          Frankly and Don… hard for me to deal with your most recent posts, here, on Veteran’s Day… I wa at the observance @ Davis Cemetery today… were EITHER of you?

          Frankly might argue that FDR, HST (both Democrats) put our folk in “harms way”, in WWII and Korea… Dad served in “harms way” in WWII… technically, Hawaii was not a state, a part of the union, when the Pearl Harbor thing happened… perhaps Frankly thought we should not have entered that conflict, nor the Europe part, as Germany only declared war on us, but was no real threat to the US.  French, English, etc. be damned, right?  B______t..

          Dad, who was a Corpsman in the Pacific in WWII and saw and dealt with stuff that neither of you would probably be capable of dealing with, lived to tell about it, and because he did, I can write about it.

          It was not a Democrat who first sent our troops into Afghanistan nor Iraq (via Kuwait).

          I hate war, as Dad did, but sometimes “a person has to do what a person has to do”.  Would either of you stand by, under the umbrella of ‘pacifism’ or ‘not our concern’ if your child, friend, neighbor was threatened?  And who is your “neighbor”?  My philosophy tends to all (read John Donne), or Christian scriptures as to definition of neighbor…

          Blaming individuals or political parties in this matter is BS… have neither of you read the war powers act?  The president can direct, but the Congress can refuse to fund military actions.  Who was the dominant party in Congress during Obama’s administration?

          Frankly, you and Don need to grow up and not see things so simplistically… [Don, I respect your childrens’ service, your concern, and pray that they be safe]…

          There is a time to fight, and times to decline a fight…

          To blame the President for the fights we are engaged with is bogus… to blame him for not fighting more for those in Syria, the Ukraine (particularly Crimea) is certainly open to debate.

          Stepping off the soapbox…

          Honor those who have served… as they say, all gave some, some gave all…

    1. Robert Canning

      That sounds like: “If you hadn’t worn those sexy clothes you wouldn’t have gotten yourself raped.”

      I just feel for the people who will find out in short order (like the people of Kansas have under Brownback) how failed the policies of cutting taxes and benefits are.  And when people in Red America begin to see what a liar, racist, and a cheat our new president is and where it will lead us as a nation.

  17. Tia Will

    Frankly

    and then we would just settle in to a new political period where we would focus on the policies and actions of government.”

    And I believe that everyone who supported Barack Obama for president twice truly hoped that this would happen as well. However what we got were vows to devote the most effort to making him a “failed one term president”, devotion to birtherism, and reneging on basic duties such as the disgraceful treatment of the nomination of Garland for the Supreme Court not to mention all the other purely obstructionist actions taken by Republicans. Now, after taking this approach for eight years, we here “we would focus on the policies and actions of government ?  Really !

    Responsibility for the election of our president elect lies solely and entirely with those who nominated , supported, and voted for him. He is entirely a product of his backers. Anyone who feels good about him becoming the next president has no one but themselves blame or credit for the outcomes. Lets just hope for the best even knowing that we do not agree on what “the best” is.

    1. South of Davis

      Tia wrote:

      > Responsibility for the election of our president elect lies solely and

      > entirely with those who nominated , supported, and voted for him.

      I believe that (like Bob Dole years ago) Hillary was a horrible choice for the Democrats even if it was her “turn” (like it was Bob’s “turn” ) to run.   Bernie would have beat Trump if the DNC had not rigged the game so he (or anyone else) couldn’t win…

       

  18. Tia Will

    SOD

    I go back and forth in my mind about whether Bernie could have won. I doubt it. I believe that the Republicans having used fear so effectively this time, would have resurrected fear of communism as their major tool against Bernie which would have mobilized the same groups against him.

    However, it remains irrefutable that it was the Republicans that allowed Trump to be nominated to lead their party. There is no escaping or pawning that responsibility off on anyone else as Frankly attempted to do.

    1. quielo

      Politico has a very interesting article which describes the conflict between Bill Clinton who believed HRC should reach out to working whites and being overruled by the campaign staff who felt they were not part of the coalition HRC was putting together.

       

      http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/bill-clinton-chasing-the-past-226189

       

      and

      “But in general, Bill Clinton’s viewpoint of fighting for the working class white voters was often dismissed with a hand wave by senior members of the team as a personal vendetta to win back the voters who elected him, from a talented but aging politician who simply refused to accept the new Democratic map. At a meeting ahead of the convention at which aides presented to both Clintons the “Stronger Together” framework for the general election, senior strategist Joel Benenson told the former president bluntly that the voters from West Virginia were never coming back to his party.”

  19. Tia Will

    BP

    so in the end the Republican’s fear tactics came out ahead of the Democrat’s tactics.”

    I am glad to see you so honest in your approval of the use of fear to obtain one’s political goals. Do you also celebrate the fact that anger was a major winning tactic ?

      1. Tia Will

        BP and pierce

        Except that I have repeatedly said on multiple threads that I do not like fear tactics, bullying, violence or destructive actions regardless of the politics of the perpetrators. Maybe you have consistently overlooked this point on all of the occasions that I have stated it.

        Mocking someone for their “hick southern accent” is no more acceptable to me than mocking someone for the color of their skin or the name of the God they pray to. I have said this repeatedly.

        As for my politics, I feel just as strongly as hpierce seems to that I consider each issue separately on its own merits. This can lead to a very seemingly inconsistent advocacy pattern. I am usually, but not invariably, very “liberal in my views”. However, I am also a very strong advocate for confinement away from the general population of certain categories of prisoners, rapists and child molesters amongst them. My partner is much more liberal in these cases than I am. He believe that virtually everyone has the possibility for redemption. I agree but believe that the risk to vulnerable individuals in our society is not worth taking the chance. So I believe in secure, but humane confinement in a secure setting for life. Hardly a knee jerk liberal position.

        And on an additional note to hpierce, the process of “actually thinking” may be exercised by BP and/or myself whether or not we agree with you on one, some or no issues at all. And the thought that you “actually care about people” leading to me inference that we do not, is in my opinion, way more elitist and pretentious than anything that you have ever accused me of.

    1. hpierce

      And, Tia and BP, be damn aware that many of those of us who actually think are pretty damn fed up with “liberal Democrats” AND “conservative Republicans”, their rhetoric and their behaviors in stymying actual governance… we actually care about people, not “postures”/ideologies… we are growing in number, each election year…

      BP, at least one of the sites where violence emerged came (based on police accounts) from those who presented as ‘anarchists’… wanting to fight for the sake of a fight, and to destabilize American society for whatever ‘reasons’ [wrong term?] they may have…

      1. South of Davis

        hpierce wrote:

        > one of the sites where violence emerged came (based on police accounts)

        > from those who presented as ‘anarchists’… wanting to fight for the sake of a fight

        It is interesting that in 30 years of reading about (so called) “anarchists” at protests I have never heard about them at a “conservative” protest.  At a conservative (Republican, Gun Owners, Christian, Orthodox Jewish or Nation of Islam) protest the other “protesters” would quickly shut them down where at most  “liberal” protests the (so called) “anarchists” typically get cheered on by the other “protesters/looters”…

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlUmHEuq4Rg

        1. hpierce

          That could well be true… “conservatives” by definition, would not be inclined to be “anarchists”… yet, to put all Democrats, liberals, socialists, and communists in the same “bag” as anarchists, nihilists, etc. is also incorrect…

          The anarchists and nihilists are out there… extremely small in number, but capable of major actions… cowards enough to “piggy-back” on others’ actions… putting gasoline on an existing ‘fire’ if you will…

          The violence is reprehensible, in any event…

    2. South of Davis

      Tia wrote:

      > However, it remains irrefutable that it was the Republicans

      > that allowed Trump to be nominated to lead their party.

      > There is no escaping or pawning that responsibility off

      > on anyone else

      In politics many will “always” take one side and blame the “other side” for “dirty tricks” “nominating a bad person” etc. just like in relationships many will always take the side of their sex claiming that it it was not for the “cheating” or “nagging” by one side everything would be fine.  I know I am in the minority, but I feel my life is a lot better when I am able to look at “both” sides and admit that “both” sides screwed up when an idiot is elected or a relationship ends.

      > I am glad to see you so honest in your approval of the

      > use of fear to obtain one’s political goals.

      Yes or No question to Tia: “Have you ever publicly condemned a Democrat for using the fear of Roe vs. Wade going away to obtain their political goals”?

      P.S. I agree it would not have been easy for Bernie to win, but anyone that is honest has to admit that a lot a Bernie supporters that would have voted for just about anyone with a D after their name stayed home after word got out that the DNC screwed Bernie and his supporters over (the same thing would have happened if Jeb got the GOP nomination and the Trumpkins found out that their guy got the shaft due to dirty deals by party insiders and the people that pay $250K for a “speech”)

      1. Tia Will

        SOD

        Yes or No question to Tia: “Have you ever publicly condemned a Democrat for using the fear of Roe vs. Wade going away to obtain their political goals”?

        No. And the reason is that I do not equate the use of fear over something which is a stated goal of the opposition ( the reversal of Roe vs. Wade) is a well known Republican/conservative goal, with statements such as undocumented individuals from a certain country are rapists, criminals …..and maybe a few good people or that Hillary is a founder of ISIS. These are blatant fear tactics based on no foundation in truth. If a Democrat spewed this kind of false fear mongering, I would most certainly condemn them.  As a matter of fact, I can give you a concrete example of when I have been openly critical of a Democrat, not of fear mongering, but on a fear related issue that you can check for yourself. The Vanguard editorial board had a meeting with Bill Dodd, a Democrat. During that interview I asked him about is position on gun research on which issue he had coauthored a bill in support. When I follow up with a tougher question about whether or not he would support the actions based on factual findings of such research, he responded “sure as long as it was with regard to the mentally ill” showing a clear misunderstanding or bias about what kind of scientific evidence he would or would not accept based on his preconceived notion of what the research “should show”. I was highly critical of this position publicly, Democrat or not.

         

        1. hpierce

          Overturning Roe vs. Wade is not a liberal/conservative, democrat/republican thing… it has different ‘roots’… ever seen a Venn diagram?… and you say you don’t believe in a dichotomous view?  LOL

    1. South of Davis

      Frankly wrote:

      > Every liberal should watch this…

      So should every conservative, libertarian and kid who has never bothered to register to vote.

      He makes a lot of good points (and seems like he would be a fun guy to hang out with)…

  20. Barack Palin

    So now we have nightly riots where liberal protesters are basically defecating in their own beds.

    Breaking windows, fires, graffiti, vandalism…..

    Keep it up, the big cities are where most of the liberal population inhabit.

    Keep destroying your own homes.

    Dummies……………….

    1. South of Davis

      BP wrote:

      > So now we have nightly riots where liberal protesters

      > are basically defecating in their own beds.

      Years ago when the “die ins” to protest the war in Iraq happened in SF Brian Copeland (an African American Democrat) got stuck in traffic and started his radio show late.

      It was funny to hear him try and talk sense in to the “protesters” by explaining that SF is is almost all Democrats and of the few Republicans he knows in the city they are more liberal than most (aka “Tom Campbell Republicans”) so even most Republicans in town were against the war.

      Protesting is a great way to get your message out, but looting blocking traffic and burning the liberal town you live in is not a great way to get Donald Trump to step down.

      1. David Greenwald Post author

        You seem to be making the mistake in believing that the protests are purposeful rather than expressive.

        That said, those who saw my Facebook exchange yesterday might have a better insight into the protests. A lot of the protesters are not Hillary but rather radicals who are bent more on tearing the system down than any electoral purpose.

        1. South of Davis

          David wrote:

          > You seem to be making the mistake in believing that

          > the protests are purposeful rather than expressive.

          I just find it interesting that people “express” their anger by vandalizing the stuff most likely owned by people that agree with them (you didn’t see bible thumping rednecks spray painting churches and smashing the windows of 4x4s in small town America after Obama got elected)…

          1. Don Shor

            Going back to 2008 to do what,

            To show South of Davis that his statement was incorrect.
            He said, in case you didn’t notice:

            (you didn’t see bible thumping rednecks spray painting churches and smashing the windows of 4x4s in small town America after Obama got elected

            So I was showing him that violence did, in fact, occur when Obama got elected.
            Maybe you should read more carefully.

  21. hpierce

    A somewhat different thought… saw a headline in the Bee about the “transition” of President…

    Perhaps Tia can teach/remind folk of what the “transition” phase entails in her field of expertise… might be interesting…

  22. Tia Will

    hpierce

    Perhaps Tia can teach/remind folk of what the “transition” phase entails in her field of expertise… might be interesting…”

    Wow. Thank you for posing such an interesting question. I am going to take a while to consider the many aspects of this question as it relates to medicine. I will get back with you, although maybe not immediately.

      1. hpierce

        Correct assumption, Don… precisely what I meant…

        “transition” means one thing to the one giving birth, another to the one being born, another to the “other parent” (who, as I recall should both be supportive, and ‘shut the F up’ [and might have to listen to an angry “you caused this!”]), and yet another to the mid-wife and/or physician in attendance… a complex situation, to be sure, so I respect the fact Tia needs to think it over before responding…

        After “transition”, and a ‘new life as we know it’, you can determine whether all the preparation, waiting, pain, etc., were worth it or not.

        1. hpierce

          IMHO, might be a metaphor worth exploring…

          And no, was not pleased with the prez election outcome, and would not have been happy with the other likely outcome, either…  I took the “coward’s way out”, and voted for the Libertarian… comfortable in the knowledge that I was voting AGAINST both major parties, my vote would reflect that, and that my vote would not help promote the P-E [my new shorthand for the “president elect”]… I was not pleased with the choices I had… haven’t felt that way in many, many years…

          As S&G sang, “Laugh about it, shout about it, either way you choose… every way you look at it….”  I was 4 years away from being able to vote when that gem came out…

  23. Tia Will

    South of Davis

    (you didn’t see bible thumping rednecks spray painting churches and smashing the windows of 4x4s in small town America after Obama got elected)…”

    And you also did not see President Obama praising violence nor exhorting people to employ it during his campaign as we did with the current president elect. Think there might be some connection there?

    1. hpierce

      Was in Birmingham AL in October… visited the site of the 16th Street bombing… 4 little girls, rehearsing for choir at their church… “It’s time we stopped, people, what’s that sound?  Everyone look at what’s going on…” [Buffalo Springfield]

      Maybe we’re in the “new ’60’s”?

      And to beat some folk to it, Birmingham, Selma, other violence was not “delivered” by the ‘liberals’ … the latter “victim class” as some might say, included blacks AND whites, rich and poor…

  24. wdf1

    A point that Don Saylor posted on Facebook:

    I grew up in Wyoming and live in California. Wyoming has 3 (three) Electoral College votes representing 584,000 people, or 1 for every 195,000 people. California has 55 (fifty-five) votes in the electoral college representing our 38.8 million people, or 1 for every 705,000 people. If California’s population counted for electoral college votes at the same ratio as Wyoming (1 for every 195,000 people), California would have 199 votes in the Electoral College. In other words, a vote cast in Wyoming counts for about 3.6 votes cast in California.

        1. Frankly

          An “attack”?  I don’t think so.  Did you know that I have lived in California for 43 years?  Although I also lived in Cheyenne for a couple of years when I was a youngster.

          Of course my response was snarky, but also I am making a point about places with high population density and those like Wyoming where survival has a much higher self-sufficiency bar… and hence the need to develop much greater pragmatism, practicality and much less fanciful thinking about the world.

          Live in a big city and you start to lose perspective for the contribution of the individual over the more nebulous opinion that everything just happens because of the collective and its rulers.

        2. Frankly

          Davis is within a major metropolitan area per the federal and state government classification.  I think that is one of the points lost on the Davis NIMBYs and NOEs.  We are urban.  Very little in Wyoming is urban.  And it certainly was not 50 years ago.

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